right off of the beginning it started off with a book fair. we knew their rooms were filled and people were coming out and clamoring for more. there was never a question of the second year. friday, saturday and sunday, the campus building another building so we decided to fill that up with more and i would like to say, miami dade to billboard buildings. >> it was funded in numerous different ways. we have incredible support for the nights foundation or the society of america, lots of private individuals.

and they provide -- miami dade colleges to the community. >> host: you have a full day ahead of the. we appreciate you stopping by. >> guest: thank you for being here. abyss the day for you >> host: we have moved inside the bus where we're joined by john dean whose most recent book is called "the nixon defense: what he knew and when he knew it." mr. dean, how and when kid you become richard -- did you become richard nixon's counsel? >> guest: peter, john please. [laughter] anyway, july of 1970 when i was

31 years of age, i became white house counsel. i wasn't a part of the nixon entourage, i hadn't been in the campaign. i had been in washington quite a while, i'd worked as the chief minority counsel of the house judiciary committee, i'd gone on from there, i'd been an associate deputy attorney general. that's where i joined the nixon administration. while at justice i had a lot of dealings with the white house staff, and so when john ehrlichman became assistant to the president for domestic affairs, that chair sat empty for a little while, and then the president invited me to come over and serve as white house counsel. >> host: what is the role of the counsel? how often would you meet with the president? >> guest: very seldom, actually. the best description i've ever had of my job, i actually put in the early part of this book -- because alex butterfield, who worked for bob had match, the chief of staff -- haldeman, had a pretty good overview of the white house. he handled a lot of

administrative functions. he said i had two masters. i actually had three; bob haldeman, who i reported to, john ehrlichman never gave up the counsel's job actually and nixon continued to turn to him for an awful lot of things that related to the counsel's office, and ehrlichman just had me do the work. and then, of course, when the president started calling on me, i had that third master. >> host: how often would you meet with bob haldeman? >> guest: regularly. he had morning staff meetings. he was a good administrative chief of staff. he was easy to work with. a lot of people found him tough to work with. i think that was his immediate staff that he was hard on. but the other professionals on the staff he really treated as peers, and it was a pleasure to work for him. >> host: john dean, june 1972, what was that month like in the white house? >> guest: well, that's, of course, the month where the arrest occurred at the

watergate. i happened to have been in manila in the philippines giving a speech at the time the break-in occurs and the arrests occur. first mistake might have been coming home. but i did. [laughter] i stopped in san francisco, called my deputy who later would become a white house counsel, and i said, fred, listen, i'm wiped out, i've been across the time zone, it's been a very quick trip, and i'm coming back, and i'm going to delay a day at least. he said, oh, no, they're looking for you. there's been a break-in at the democratic national committee. so that's -- i did. it was a sunday, i jumped on the plane and was in the office on monday morning, and from the get go i get instructions to get involved and find out what happened. >> host: did you have a sinking feeling when you first heard it? >> guest: it was not good. it was not good. my first reaction when i got home on sunday night was, oh, my god, coulson has finally done

something to get us in trouble. coulson was a special counsel to the president, he was known as something of a hatchet man, did the president's dirty dealings. but it wasn't coulson in the long runful he was not uninvolved -- run. he was not uninvolved, but he was not directly involved. i did have a sinking feeling, and it took me only nanoseconds to put together once i found out a few more facts what had gone on and that it had been gordon liddy's operation over at the re-election committee. >> host: john dean, your book's called "the nixon defense: what he knew and when he knew it." what did the president know and when did he know it? >> guest: wow, that's a -- [laughter] to do that book, peter, i had to go through and transcribe all the nixon watergate conversations. i pulled all the conversations out, i cataloged them first which nobody had ever done, and then i had a team of transcribers help me so i could go through and really follow from day-to-day to day what nixon knew, when he knew it and

what he did about it. one of the surprises, there are lots of surprises, in fact, there's not a page of that book that i don't learn something new and report it. ..

the cuban-americans that howard hunt had worked with going way back to the bay of pigs during the kennedy administration, he was a cia officer, one of the senior operatives in the bay of pigs, and some of his key men were down here in miami. he had recruited them while in the white house to do the ellsberg rake in. when he went over when he went over and joined the reelection committee he brought the same people in. and now here after the arrests, two of them are in jail. he assured that these people would never talk, which they didn't, but there were still multiple problems. >> and there was some money. >> that is a bizarre story, and you are mixing to thing.

howard hunt left a check in one of the rooms of the watergate hotel for $6.39 $6.39 which he wanted bernard parker to mail from miami to his country club in maryland to pay his out-of-state news. this led, of course, the police immediately to howard hunt gizzi has a personal, handwritten check. one of the of the things i never knew about in detail is nixon is down here at the time of the break-in as well. keep this gain is his vacation home. when he gets back on the 20th that night he comes up with a plan around the cuban-americans. he says, listen, if it bounces this way will we will do is set of a acumen defense fund because these guys are going to need support money, attorneys

fees, going to have to pay fines, who knows. his plan is. his plan is to create a cuban defense fund. now, he was not going to do it secretly but very openly and playing against his opponent, mcgovern, move the cuban community did not want to become president. so he was going to play it politically. had he done that it would not have been an obstruction of justice. in fact, there are some wonderful conversations late in here where he is talking with henry peterson, the head of the criminal division, about this pan and peterson agrees. but halderman with whom he discusses the cuban defense fund never tells anybody. anybody. in fact weather is another conversation with me. he runs by me they cuban defense fund. i don't know what he is talking about. it just goes right by me. i

continue because i realize i don't know everything, everything, but it was kind of an ingenious plan. >> june 23, 1972. >> the day that. >> the day that became famous or infamous, however one looks at it, for the so-called smoking gun tapes. what is interesting about the smoking gun tapes is, they are really firing blanks. and i say that because what happened is, so much time had passed that nixon could not figure out what it was all about. halderman was not communicating. no one was asking the. they take these they take these tapes at face value and read them out of context and when they finally surface is toward the end of his presidency but he has set up a defense saying, i knew nothing about watergate until john been told me of march 21 of 1973, and here three, and here we are now back on june 23 of 72, and

there are conversations that appear that he is trying to get the f ei to kill the entire investigation. that is not what he is talking about. he is talking about having the fbi's a out of something they have no business investigating, which is investigating, which is campaign finance, if not national security. it is a legitimate worry. given by his staunchest supporters in the impeachment committee finally throw in the towel and say this is beyond all we are willing to defend. not that there were not other smoking guns that same week. in fact, there were other worse conversations but that was the one that surfaced when it surfaced and ended his presidency when it did because it put the lie to his defense that he knew nothing about the cover-up. >> how did that 18 and a half minute gap happen, in your view? >> i think it is pretty

clear that there was an intentional erasure. i decided to put an appendix in the book where i would focus just on the 18 and a half minute gap, when it happened, who had happened, who had access to the tape at the time, the fact that there were five to nine erasures, intentionally erased the content. it occurs on june 20, 1972, which is his first day back in office after the arrest, his first conversation with halderman after the arrest. we know that we know that they are clearly talking about watergate. the content? i think it is simple. it is something because of the timing of when this comes up that, again, shows that his defense that he knew nothing until march 21 is a lie.

again, it is ironic. there are more conversations that same week. this week. this happens to be one that the watergate prosecutor had not subpoenaed. they also include everyone who had access to that tape at that time, and it runs of wide gambit to some people who are widely known, some who are still alive and not well-known. someone may confess yet. >> it is always surprising to know when the taping system was actually in play in the white house. it was not that much of his presidency. >> no, it was not. he puts it in at the suggestion of halderman in february of 71. the reason is pretty basic. he had a system and his white house that his staff took regular notes and wrote up notes before the meeting started particularly with outsiders and then

afterwards as to what had happened, focusing on any decision he might have made to tell somebody who was in there with the decision was and then he would have a contemporaneous record out of so the person could not go out of the office and say that the president said such and such. that is just t5 the system broke down pretty quickly. so he wanted not only for the purpose of not having somebody say he had said something different, but different, but he wanted it for historical purposes. so when the system breaks down, halderman said what, you know, lyndon johnson suggested we put in the taping system to read he urged you to do it. so let's put it in. what happens next is not covered in the tapes, but they decide to put in a a voice-activated system, and this was the killer, if you

will thought johnson had a switch under his desk that he could control, next and, if he is in the room the recording equipment comes on. on. his executive office, building office, oval office. the cabinet office have a physical switch. camp david's voice-activated as well. by voice-activated, by voice-activated, it means the president had a device on him that sent out a signal so the secret service knew where he was. and that is key to the locator system. so it only so it only plays if he is in the room. in other words, talking while they're cleaning it will not start the taping system because it needs the president there with his locator button on him. even al haig who later became his chief of staff has no idea it's a voice-activated system and

does not learn and told the senators tell him of it. actually, in response, excuse me, to my testimony. >> john dean, when did you leave the white house? >> i leave on april 30. i i was very open with my colleagues, when i broke rank in the fact that i was trying i was trying to convince them that this was not going to work to read we have to ended. >> april 30, 30th 1973. >> april 301973 he removes all of us. as he as he says on the tapes, he fires us. he put a cover on it. he has accepted my resignation. but it is interesting, you can tell, from the conversations, how frightened he is of all of us because he does not want

anyone to turn on him. and at that.i had never talked about the president to prosecutors or anybody else. else. i did not know if it was privileged. you know, peter, i started this process to figure out how nixon could make such a mess out of this. i was very curious. the bottom the bottom line is, he is just not as clever as we thought he was. he fumbles, makes terrible decisions,, leaves evidence that is conspicuous on his desk for no logical reason. i i am wondering how many other areas of his presidency when people say where else to do supply. maybe china happens because kissinger is able to push it

and follow through. maybe some of maybe some of his other accomplishments are really the result of his staff. >> what was it like to work in that white house? when you listen to tapes and read some of the books, and seems a lot of conspiracies, a lot of different groups working against each other. >> i had not worked in other white house staffs. i have followed them since. i was i was friendly with people in the johnson white house, but there was a unique feature that i think was somewhat fatal. it was a need to know white house. in other words, if you are working on something you were pretty much for been to talk to anyone else about it which caused many of the

problems of that presidency. watergate is completely out of the normal staffing system, and that is part of the problem. >> all right. very quickly, right. very quickly, and then we will take some of your calls when did the white house watergate hearings happen? when were you when were you testifying? what happened to you after? >> they start in may 1973. i do not 1973. i do not testify until june 25. i am an early witness. i have been cooperating with the committee. they knew the general areas of my testimony. they had no idea i would bring in as 60,000 word document that had i been told i was going to have to

read i never would have made it 60,000 words. but nevertheless i ended up spending the entire day reading it in monotone as well. i did not want to emphasize anything. i just figured, i will put it flat out out there. eight hours of reading. the next four the next four days or question-and-answer. >> then what happens to you? very quickly, and i apologize to our viewers. how much did it cost you financially to go through that? >> i have never really try to figure it out. i hired a lawyer, and he was fair. fair. i was in a position where i could afford it. so it was, and also i had a_lawyer, i had a next line

lawyer, and he insisted we do it his way or no way and he for a long time pushed for immunity, and it turned out to be a smart move. it delayed things, gave me time to prepare testimony, gave us time to see how things were going to shake out, and ultimately when it came down to what the government could or could not do with me they would have had great difficulty prosecuting me because of the immunity. immunity. i have the case that oliver north would later have where it was clear the court said, you cannot said, you cannot have it both ways. you can't have somebody )) testify under immunity and then turn around and prosecute them. it has to be one of the other. i have been informally immunized by the prosecutors, formally by the senate, and as my lawyer said, it will take them years to even figure out

they can't do it if they want to litigated. i didn't start down this road to beat the rap. i will take responsibility for whatever i've done. i wish you and your good lawyering that gives me the options. so that sorted itself out. >> of what were you convicted and what was the penalty? >> i pled guilty to conspiracy to obstruct justice, which is the only offense i know. i was originally sentenced to two to four years. i testified in the trial of ehrlichman and others, and others, and it looks pretty clear that the judge was trying to make it look like i would get the strict sentence. i i was in the witness protection program for a year and a half. i don't actually go to jail or prison.

i am in the safe house, and and every day they bring me into the prosecutor's office it is not exactly a hard time. time. i eat in restaurants and sleep in this place at night and that i i picked up the next morning by the marshals my so-called incarceration lasts 120 120 days and the judge says time served. >> you have been patient. >> very patient, since 1963 when john kennedy was assassinated. just trying to get to the bottom. i hope you i hope you don't cut me off. am i still on the air? >> we are listening. go ahead. be quick. >> thank you for mentioning oliver north. all the way from john kennedy's assassination, i i don't know if you have seen the new photos of george bush senior and dealey plaza

on the day kennedy was assassinated, through watergate when george bush senior asked nixon to resign through iran contra when george bush senior. >> ronald, where are you going with all of this? go ahead and wrapup. >> i want to compliment john dean for having the guts to say any of this because so many people have been killed their books about how many people have killed. >> a lot going on there. we are going to lose that caller. >> let me just say this. they have had howard hunt in daily plaza. i would be amazed if george bush senior was in daily plaza, two. there were hundreds of people there. >> how do conspiracy theories, connecting dots that may or may not be a part, how did it begin?

>> some of the most aggressive conspiracy theories are pushed by what i call conspiracy theory entrepreneurs. they write and sell books. they are always fatally flawed because the conspiracy pierced does not want all of the hard information. there is never an answer. they will invent a false fact to replace it. it it. it is just kind of a sad situation. too much currency, simplest against yours to complex problems that are bogus, distort history, and is not healthy for the body politic. i think they are pushed primarily by conspiracy entrepreneurs. >> jack, you are on book tv with john dean. >> good afternoon. first of all, let's be candid, the media hated

nixon, in particular the "washington post". secondly, the roosevelt administration was corrupt to the t, loaded with communists, harry dexter white being one of them. i'd like to talk about something. tell me about this lady, angel from asia. the south vietnamese as far as negotiating a deal concerning the paris peace talks. >> thank you very much. anything you want to address >> he mixes a lot of things in their. i have never seen anything in the material i have that in connection with the bombing called and alleged behavior, that he was

somehow a back channel to make a deal for nixon is promised south vietnam he will give them a better deal there has been a lot of hot air and conspiracy. but very little fact. >> were you surprised when he became known? >> not really. there was a conversation in this book. the justice department. and he told me that a general counsel for the major news organization which i assume that the time was time magazine or the "washington post" worried about the fact that they might somehow be getting involved in obstruction of justice and so i have not

talked to the attorney general, the director of the fbi about this, but i think they should have it at the white house. the nixon knows about it. when when he selects pat gray as director people tell gray about it. great is not want to believe it, but it was true. >> next call comes from jonathan in san carlos, california. >> hello. good hello. good afternoon. if he had not leaked information, with the cover-up have succeeded and thus nixon gone on to a second term? >> i don't think so. that is a good question. while he had good inside information, it's going very broad. have been a couple of good both. there is one call leaked

which is excellent. he really wants the job of director. the old hoover the old hoover cronies were still there helping him with this. i don't think this would have made a lot of difference. while he is aggravating the situation and as an fbi at times out of control and leaking information that makes it very apparently acting director does not have control. in the big nature, i don't think it changes anything. >> good afternoon, gentleman i am 52 years old. when you testified, i was a 12-year-old, and the 12 -year-old, and the one thing ever more than anything else is when you told people that you hope that it did not prevent young people from

becoming active in politics. well, i did and have been ever since. i wanted to ask you, what happened to john dean since watergate in your personal career as well as anything in politics? >> i had a i had a nice and successful career in business in california where i lived, retired at 60 years of age, now on my eighth book and have been cranking them out. i write columns as well, do a fair amount of lecturing. pretty active in politics through the perspective of a commentator. >> how could richard nixon have survived it? ow could richard nixon have survived it? >> very easy. very easy, peter. truth. the people who later went should have gone day one. he does not learn about the

break-in until march 17 17th when i tell him. he should have been told and had all of those options, but he just could not do it. he just seemed, he adopted the cover-up. you can hear him. while not active, he approves every key element until he gets deeply active in what is the end of the first cover-up, and in the cover-up of the cover-up. >> you are on book tv. >> years ago i heard, i believe it was john ehrlichman claimed that he was providing funds to the democratic party. did you hear anything like that? >> never heard that. never did.

>> to diary entries have come out recently. >> what came out were not new entries. he did a written version of the diary that was transcribed. he would dictate these things. i had my digitizer cannot and i was listening. i digitized some of those. it is kind of a flat voice where he is often in a car or someplace like that, being driven home and dictating the days events. he was very disciplined and detailed. it it is a wonderful document that was buried for years. my god, would watergate had sorted itself earlier. it was lost for years, just

before he passed away he really started working on it, it, cleaning it up, not deleting, but making sure people understood the way that it worked and put it out. and it is a value to five valuable document. i cited a number of times in my book. >> when you were sitting in the oval office and told richard nixon that there was a a cancer growing around his presidency, what was that like? >> things had kind of conflated. conflated. one of the lawyers of the reelection committee came to me and said, hunt said, hunt is demanding 120,004 he will talk about the things he did that happens on march 19. before that before that i have just started dealing with nixon really as of february 27. i am taking his temperature. he is taking mine, and i am

not sure how much he knows. yet he is pushing me to write a bogus or work harder and harder. those two things come those two things come together and i say, this man really needs to understand in as graphic a terms as i can put together what is happening and why and that it is criminal. i did not mince words with him. so that is what was going on the surprise to me is nixon reacts the way he does. he does not respond when someone is committing perjury that we should not be committing perjury. he said how much and i said a million dollars out of thin now which is air which is about five and a half today and he says, i know where we can get that. so one horrible after another he has an answer. perjury is a tough rap to prove. i am surprised that his reaction.

and had the and had the next event in the sequence not occurred when one of the men arrested at the watergate released a letter to the judge saying there had been perjury and he jumps in with both feet, that forces nixon to take action. otherwise i'm not sure he would have. but he is sending the watergate defendants to congress. if they do not testify they will get 30, 40 year sentences for a bungled burglary. he was just putting a hammer on them. so those events forced nixon to deal with the situation and bring it to ahead. >> who was the judge and how did he get this case? >> the chief judge of the united states district court for the district of columbia. he got the case, while it

normally would come up in a rotation, it a rotation, it appears he picked this one off for himself. he may he may have gotten the original break-in trial for those arrested and watergate and then as chief judge taken the option to stay with a successor trial. he became as knowledgeable as any judge. and he and he is a republican but takes on the president of the united states. he pushes the limits for a federal district judge, for example, 40 year sentences for break-in. that is pushing the fifth amendment a long way. so he does not necessarily get the hall of fame, but he does get a lot of credit for pushing this to conclusion.

>> to people under 50 know who you are? >> you know, we have talked about this. i have been at usc. i go over there and do two lectures a year. before come over to do the lectures the class i do it in, the instructor always said, call your parents or grandparents and see if you should attend this lecture, and they all show up. so they don't know, but they find out. >> here is his latest book. what he knew and when he knew it. you are watching book tv. now, coming up in just a a minute, another call an opportunity with television producer. we are live in miami. a lot of folks out on the festival grounds. we will be right back.

>> book tv takes a look at the miami "herald" for this week's list of best-selling books. at books. at the top of the list are two memoirs.

>> are there lessons in the camp david summit? i have authored several that i i think will help frame our current failed efforts. there are no perfect partners for peace. look at the men that came to cap david,, an assassin, terrorist leader, and a failing and a resident. it would be it would be hard to imagine three less likely partners for peace, but there was one quality they all shared and abundant, political courage.

timing is not everything. this reverie of dominance, but the surprise attack only reinforced in the minds of many, the need to keep the sinai peninsula as a strategic barrier against the main israeli t5, i mean, egyptian army. in egypt sadat was not just in egypt, and the whole arab world he was part alone in his belief that peace was possible or even desirable. two of his foreign ministers resigned following his trip to jerusalem, and the third resigned at camp david. in fact, the dissent in the egyptian delegation was so

great that at one.at four in the morning carter woke worry that sadat was going to be murdered by his own delegation at cap david. they called and woke them up he was running around in his pajamas reinforcing the security to protect him from his own people. of of course eventually it was his own people that killed them. that cap david agreement was probably his death. carter had his own problem, the crime rate was 20 percent, a revolution in iran and made him congressional elections. his political advisers unanimously opposed his decision to seek peace with so many pressing problems at home. finally, america plays a crucial role. egypt and israel simply

could not make piece by themselves. so after the fifth day carter did something he did not want to do. he decided to create an american plan. there was already a prospective plan in the works, but he made america a full partner in the negotiations. he made it clear to both men that their relationship with the united states was on the line. >> you can watch this and other programs online. >> book tv asks bookstores and libraries across the country. here is a look at the titles chosen by books and books and coral gables, florida.

>> and back outside at the miami book fair. miami-dade college. the 17th year in a row. broadcast live. this whole weekend will be live.

from cornell west, west, get a chance to talk with him as well. now joining us on the c-span bus is this gentleman. you have heard of all in the family, good times,, good times, princess bride, people before the american way,, norman lear is the man behind all of that. >> how did i get in television? i wanted to be a press agent i was a kid of the depression. i had one uncle used to flick me a quarter when he saw me. i wanted me. i wanted to be that uncle that could flick a quarter.

while i was overseas, got me a job. it was as a press agent. when i was fired i came to california to seek another job. i ran into a fellow who wanted to write comedy. that is what i have basically been doing all my life without realizing it. i fell into it. >> well, some of your shows, , and pick the phone lines up if you would like to participate in our conversation. some of your shows were known to have political messages, if that is a fair way of saying it. and you riding your book,

the controversy that this shows set off, particularly some individual episode created a good deal of criticism. if you want to send the message i was told use western union. >> who remembers western union now? i denied sending messages. that's not what i was about or am about. i am a serious individual. i pay a lot of attention to my own family and others. we were a group of writers. as we were put airing we were watching our kids, listening to our wives, reading our newspapers, dealing with dealing with the impact of the culture on us, and we were writing from the perspective. we. we happened to be people of

the progressive.of view. and so i'm sure that we held that position. answering the question because before we did all in the family the average father knows best, beverly hillbillies, greenacres had to do with this kind of problem,, the roast is ruined and the boss is coming to dinner. i was the nature of the problems those families faced. so we didn't do any more messaging than they did. hours where just about the problems of the new american family. >> did you get in trouble at the network for some of your shows? >> so. >> so much that they put on seven shows.

but we did have arguments along the way. >> mod gets an abortion. >> yes, and that show ran in october or november. you know, estimated to be 40 million people watching that show. nothing happened. the network got a handful of letters because nobody expected it. if it's not in your family, it's in the neighbors. then the reruns. political. then they have protests carried on, lay down in

front of cars and got a lot of press as a result. >> in your book you mention that you had kind of a consultant. >> i did a show called all is fair. candace bergen at the time was working for life magazine. i great, progressive liberal she played that kind of a character. michael keaton and so

well-known conservative. is it more than a? >> a little bit on the phone and largely in the mail. i would send him a script and he would send me my comments. armstrong williams, he came out to california therefore the beginning of the show. about six or seven episodes just to get us started. >> the american way. watching them on tv. glacier on television with me. i'm doing an interview

and i have to hang up sweetheart or call you back and i door you. were here. by. >> were going to take your calls to. five daughters and one son. >> this one, one of twins. they will be 20 next week. >> are those your youngest. >> those are my youngest. my oldest is 68. >> you are 92. >> ninety-two. >> how is your health. >> i think i think my health is pretty good. >> i was actually the beginning, there was an influx of television ministries swaggered, baker, etc.

in a mixture of politics and religion. and that is exactly what i did. i put a camera on a working guy who said he and his family and wife and kids talk about politics, they disagree. outcome these ministers that agree with him and say he is a better christian because he thinks politically the way that they think. he says there has to be something wrong. a fellow love with that one. i showed it to him. sent me him. sent me to a number of other mainline church leaders. in somebody's office somebody said, form an organization. >> and. >> and the american way came

about as a result. >> is it still in existence today? >> it is. 300 some thousand members, young elected officials are now something over a thousand young elected officials holding office. three in the congress of the united states now. it is doing very well. >> michael is calling in from edison, new jersey. you a >> a certain number of a certain number of episodes that permit you to go into syndication. is it true that you make no money and tell you get into syndication? >> no, as a general rule

writers, producers, directors, everyone is well paid on a salary basis. what you are talking about is ownership. that comes later when whatever percentage you own is often syndication. >> and you talk about needing to get a business ceo because you are getting ready to go to syndication and want to own your own programs. do the networks programs. do the networks have a lot of say-so over what you put on air? >> when i i began, of course i was in live television the networks had nothing to say, the sponsors had everything to say. they controlled what was on the air. later on it became the network. when i went into comedy, situation comedy the networks had everything to say.

>> next call. >> hello. i am a fellow arizona in. we met in boston before you gave the speech,, the people for the american way. welcome. i would like to say i enjoy t5 i have enjoyed your shows the fact that you showed a majority and that the american audience responded might say more about the american audience than it does about television. i was wondering if you were thinking about coming back to give a lecture on your book? >> the likelihood is i would accept. emerson college in boston. a couple of hundred women

and maybe six or eight of us men when i went there. >> grayson is calling in from athens, georgia. good afternoon. >> good afternoon. what a kick. this is a neat thing for me. i am me. i am 46. i cannot tell you how many hours i spent in front of the tube when there were only a few channels and watching some good tv by this find american. the reason i was calling, and he touched about it a little bit with the formation of the american way and your public service announcement. in the 70s i could see what was happening with the moral majority in the amount of power and political power they were mixing with

religion. there was something that was extremely distressing, even at a young age. and i felt like that it was going to be a very a very dangerous thing for this country and still think that it could be. but i have been encouraged by some of the responses we have seen on some issues like gay marriage and how that issue has changed in such a short time, could you talk a little bit about what you see in the future in terms of this religious facet of art holster and media and technology? >> well, i think often about eisenhower when he resigned a retired, his farewell speech, when he warned us about the military industrial congressional.

he took that word out of somebody suggested he take the word out, but as it was written it was the military industrial complex. and i find myself concerned about that. i think that t5 i have so much to say about that. we are more a nation of consumers than citizens because we are so poorly informed. >> do you think, what is your view on hollywood medical activists? >> i don't think it's very different from detroit where manufacturers or executives might happen to be involved

in politics. it just happens enough business. when i grew up in connecticut, it was an insurance town, and major people in town had a lot to say about a lot of things. now i live in hollywood. the faces are better known. the names are better known, but they are citizens using what they have to be as effective as they can be. >> kelly, sacramento, kelly, sacramento, california. >> what an honor. thank you for your contributions. my question is come out of all of the programs you were directly involved with, any that you are less proud of and conversely any you are most proud of? thank you for taking my call. i will let you go. >> thank you. i had a lot of programs that did not make it that i was

not very proud of. that that is the idea that inspires us every time. we never started out to do anything that we really really did not want to do or what we did not have good reason for. when i don't. what i don't find myself talking enough about in the interviews i have been doing is a soap opera that was on five nights a week, but a show that dealt with a topic which was the media affect on the simple housewife and opened with the housewife's involvement with buildup on the floor while the family around the corner was being murdered. she had become, by then, in the order to tragedy through her television set. at the end of the show there

were 500 or so episodes. at the end of the show she is sitting in front of the television set having been driven crazy literally. three psychologists, media faces. and that is the end of this later episode, sitting with other fellow lunatics in an institution, she says, is that what i think it is and she says, i can leave it. i can't believe it. the other faces crowding around her, her, and that is the final picture. i can't believe that i am finally a member of the

nielsen family. go blackout. >> died recently. >> very much alive. >> a lot of talk about drug use during the filming of that series. were you aware of it at the time? >> i? >> i don't think that is fair commentary. had played mary hart, she was, you could use the word drug buy everything she read and everything that was being forced on her, everything that made us all much more a nation of consumers and citizens.

>> was there ever an issue that you knew of with drugs in hollywood? there was a time especially especially when you were filming some of your shows. >> they were there were a couple of our shows where performers had problems and others were not in front of the camera with drug problems. >> nothing extraordinary. you write in your book even this i get to experience. my passion, my caring, and my giant need to express all of it. >> i am realizing in these interviews now related to my books even more how much i enjoy saying what is on my mind and how good i feel, expressing the things i care about. and i learned that writing the book.

i did not take the pleasure out. it took me 92 years. >> jack is in wakefield, massachusetts. you are on book tv. >> hello. long time fan of you and your work. i do have a question regarding a statement that you made earlier regarding western union and its relevance today. i just wanted to ask you if you consider the large number of foreign workers who do use western union to send funds back to their families and the impact that it does have on the economy. it is very difficult for someone in my position to get a loan when banks don't

have money to lend us because so much money is being vacuumed out of the economy. >> i don't know how to answer that. you're talking to a man who who did not even know western union was in existence. i certainly have them i certainly have them to thank for the problem you are describing. >> please go ahead with your question or comment. >> i am a big fan. some really great television they were just wonderful. i would like it if you made some comments about how they came up with some of the various subjects they put on every week. it is very memorable to be able to watch those programs

again. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> how did you come up with some of the topics? archie gets firebombed accidentally. semi-davis sammy davis junior kisses archie, the jeffersons move next door, how did you come up with some of those topics? >> as i said earlier, we were just a a group of hard-working writers, some men, some women, families. we read three and sometimes for newspapers today. we read, for example, the incidence of hypertension was higher in black males, noticeably, seriously higher that was a great subject for john and his character on good times. ..

attention to life in america for 1972, 3, 4 american family. >> host: next call for norman lear is bob in oklahoma. >> caller: i enjoyed your work. in my 50s.

i grew up watching all in the family, my parents were quakers and they were active in the civil rights movement. it was good entertainment. i have been politically active all my life. i am wondering, a candid question, do you think that some of the older folks, when i say old driving 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, do you think we could be more instrumental in bringing at end to cannabis prohibition during our lifetime so we can help rejuvenate the economy and environment all over the world? do you think we older people -- >> host: we got the point. let's get an answer from norman

lear. marijuana legalization. >> guest: solving the problem in our economy, i am not the economic maestro. >> host: should marijuana be legalized? >> guest: to the extent liquor is analyzed by think we can afford to legalize marijuana, yes. >> host: is there an issue you are focused on today? apolitical issued? >> getting money out of politics. that is certainly an issue. citizens united, overturning citizens united so that we know where the money is coming from corporations, billionaires' can't write checks, we don't know where they came from. money out of politics, number

one cause for concern, it would be to get money out of politics. >> host: where did the title "even this i get to experience" come from? >> guest: i did very well over the years making false the show's the teenage and i had a good deal of money at one time and invested it very poorly in businesses i was involved in and reached a time when this money -- i got the sense i might have lost this and so i went to my partner who made us as successful as we became on the business end. another company, they looked at all of my assets and we had a meeting at 4:00 in the afternoon

at a hotel in california and i learned i was in big trouble financially. i had a son in law in new york who knew about this meeting, who called me that evening and asked what did they tell you? what did you learned? i told them what i just told you, the we were in deep trouble, we've been living in a place in vermont and he said how do you feel? i am sure i said i feel terrible but evidently i said but running through my head is this thought, even this i get to experience. so the next morning i got out of the shower, my phone was ringing and it is my son-in-law john in new york and he is calling to say i was thinking about what you said last night. i heard you say once that you

wanted to be cremated. you got to promise me we don't really view, we bury you. he said why? he said because some day i want to take my children, your grandchildren to a stone that reads even this i get to experience. that was 20 some years ago or longer and how could i not -- this conversation, this book fair, even this i get to experience. >> host: did you go along with your son nazi adjusting to cure you going to be cremated? >> guest: at won't go that far with it. it i except for the title of the book. >> host: next call for norman lear, vicki in texas. >> i want to thank your for your work at cochran music group.

>> guest: i it love that. >> host: what is cochrane music group? >> caller: that company that has restored jazz and that kind of music to our public domain. >> guest: you work with country music group? >> guest: i had a great time as editor, i mentioned, i think about the kind of collaboration ahead in my life, the kind of help by head through all of this. that alan horn, the business heads, when i got into the trouble i described there was a young guy, allen, working under the other two, and he came along, joined my company in the trouble it was in and helped

turn things around with the other guys looking calm, we turned everything around over a period of years and gave as suggestions that we try conquering music and we brought out that label and several other labels with it and it was a great company and then he emerge, we marriage, it was his deal, with a much bigger company, village road show pictures from australia. village road show pictures, hal unfortunately passed, one of the most delicious men and he passed and i was not part of a giant organization in love with concord music that the rest of them did not care that much

about and eventually they sold concord music. the concord jazz labels that vicki so well remembers the night adored also be long -- it is still out there, stay with it, vicki but i am no longer part of it. i am deeply sorry to say. >> host: last call is from colorado. you are on booktv. >> caller: thank you very much for the body of your work, very much appreciate it. enjoying listening to your book on a possible.com and i'm about 10 chapters in. my question is have you heard from jerry lewis or anybody else with the interesting and pithy commentss? >> guest: i have not. i have been asked about the

don't suspect that i will. what i remember most about jerry lewis was the time he added to my life because i believe laughter does that and nobody ever made me laugh harder and the rest of it is just story. >> host: "even this i get to experience" is the book, norman lear has been our guest. thank you for joining us. live coverage from the miami book fair. beginning in just a second will be cornel west. his most recent book is "black prophetic fire," he will be in conversation with beacon press and later on cornel west will be joining a call in so you have a chance to talk to him, live coverage from booktv. >> a journalist from w p tv channel 5 and vice president of

the national black journalists association, thank you. >> i am a multimedia journalist at channel 5 news in west palm beach and vice president for the national association of black journalists, the miami for lauderdale chapter and the am very happy to introduce two special guests today. dr. cornel west is a prominent and provocative democratic intellectual, a professor of philosophy and christian practice at union theological seminary and professor emeritus at princeton university. the also taught at yale, harvard and the university of paris. graduated from harvard and obtained his a and b hd in philosophy at princeton. he has written more than 20 books and has edited 13. he is best known for his classics race matters and democracy matters and his memoir brother west, living and loving

out loud. he appeared frequently on the colbert report, cnn and c-span and he also made his film debut in the matrix and was a commentator on the official trilogy released in 2004, his latest book, "black prophetic fire" with a distinguished scholar chris the bushindorr prevents a perspective on six african-american leaders including frederick a. bliss, w. e. b. du bois, martin luther king jr. ellen baker, malcolm x and otto while barnett. examine the impact of these men and women in their ear ats and across the decades and rediscovers the integrity and commitment within these passionate advocates and all so therefore wines by providing new insights that humanize these well-known figures cornel west takes an important step in rekindling the black prophetic fire so essentials in the age of

obama. helen has been director of the beacon press since october of 1995. she pulled a master's degree in english literature from the university of virginia. she began her career in publishing and random house in 1976. acquisitions that beginning could get killed don't's the healing, national book finalist, the iron cage, one today, cornel west's "black prophetic fire" and anita hill at 3 imagining quality. cheese sayre eight years on the board of pen, new england, and is administrator of the hemingway foundation pen award. thank you for being you today. [applause]

[cheers and applause] >> thank you for that very warm miami welcome. it is a great pleasure to be here today with all of you and i have a greater honor of being in dialogue with cornel west. in addition to the introduction you just heard a i want to say that cornel west is working on two other books with us and one coming up soon is his addition of the writings of martin luther king jr. which will be called appropriately the radical king. that will be published on dr. king's birthday and you should all look out for that and his next book after that will be a very important one, justice matters. we are looking forward to that as well. i am going to ask cornel west to

talk briefly about each of the six figures he discusses in the new book and then to reflect on how their legacy impacts us today and that i will turn the floor over to questions. michele alexander said that "black prophetic fire" was a fascinating exploration of the black prophetic genius and fire. i would like to start by asking you how you define "black prophetic fire" and then we can talk about each of the figures. >> thank you for that question. i would like to begin briefly by saluting personnel, my publisher, very blessed to work with james baldwin. the same as james baldwin, so many other talented figures and i would like to salute president petronis and mitchell kaplan.

those of the two leaders. 31 years, 31 years is a beautiful thing. and that collaboration and black prophetic fire. i want to begin by saying i am who i am because somebody, somebody cared for me. we need to and the baptist church, willie cook and vacation bible school teacher. these people provided and lived experience and answer to the voices for questions. how does integrity facebook freshen? how does honesty face deception? how does decency face in salt?

and how does virtue meet force? integrity, honesty, decency and a sense of virtue in the face of what? trauma, stigma, i come from people who have been terrorized, traumatized for 400 years in the united states, so when we talk about frederick douglass, we talk about w. e. b. du bois and ella baker and malcolm or martin, talk about folks who belong to integrity, honesty, decency, a sense of the frigid, telling the truth, expose lies and do it with love in their heart, compassion in the face of catastrophe. we abuse people, wrestle with the catastrophic, not just problems, is not just the negro problem but catastrophe visited on black people. the question is prophetic fire

response to that catastrophe, we have a deep sense of trying to tell what truths and most importantly willingness to pay the cost. sacrificing popularity for integrity, sacrifice feeding in for bearing witness and i am very proud to be a small part of that great tradition of great people in this ferguson moment, we need it more than ever, more than ever. [applause] >> you begin the book with frederick douglass. really interesting choice because he was a very complicated guy, wasn't he? tell us about his bearing witness and a.at which he glossed sight of that.

>> it is always on fire. . tubman 19 times, in the belly of the beast. david walker, he is a dead man 9 years later in boston. what a bounty on his head. willing to tell that kind of truth, vicious forms of evil in this society, not just white supremacy but spills over, to indigenous peoples, coordination of working people, anti-jewish, anti-arab, anti catholic, all of those part of our history but white supremacy sitting at the center. frederick douglass is the most eloquent picks slave in the history of the modern world. by eloquence i'm talking cicero and eloquence, wisdom speaking in the face of catastrophe.

there is nothing like him. he is part of the american imperial machine and his relation to haiti and the dominican republic and my critique, it is hard to be on fire for a long time because you have 1860's 7-65. he had 30 years to live. malcolm died at 39, malcolm got at 39, ellen baker was going to get to that. will was on fire her whole life. it is hard to be on fire your whole life and leno's that because we live in the age of the sellout. and 20 and 30, now you look at them and their well adjusted and even discerning what is going on with the fire in ferguson. and discern what they're going on, the get freedom fighters like ashley yates or alexis

templeton and tory russell and brother of wiley, right now in the belly of the beast in mississippi, ferguson. >> let's jump to lighten up wells in fact. she was an extraordinary woman and i discovered so much about her. don't think the lot of people know much about. >> i wish her name was well-known. and to the degree to which she was and a red hair telling the truth about american terrorism. we have a lot of talk about terrorism since 9/11.

all americans feel unsafe, he does for who they are whether it is blackened and erica for 400 years. to be hated for who you are. we have an 9/11 flight initiative. it happens every week. happens every month, happens every year, it is not something that happens one time and everybody gets afraid. would it idle wells do? booker t. washington and the boys were arguing about education and civil rights, she was confronting american terrorism, lynching, the rock face of the american nation state with courage and they ran her out of tennessee, put a bounty on her head. if not for t. timers fortunate in new york, they still hunted her down in new york and she had to leave the country and go to britain and she came back with her classics, got something to say about the underside, the night side of america, terrorism at the center, jim crow and jane crow.

in our textbooks they call it segregation. we are talking american terrorism, for two days it was a precious black man or black woman or black child hanging from a tree, the southern trees at the great billie holiday singing with such power and the jewish brothers writing the lyrics. it was a serious struggle, she organized black women and a black woman's club. we need to know much more, the classic crusade of justice. we need to know how she was able to sustain -- she is a sunday school teacher in chicago. she led the club music from chicago but was also missed treated as was the case with every individual in this text. many black people -- when you are on fire in that way talked

to hate yourself, believe you have the wrong hands and lips and noses and hair texture, believe you are less beautiful, less intelligent, less moral, and black folks have been like that for hundreds of years. and they try to say don't be afraid, don't be intimidated, don't be scared. and mobilize one of history in their backs up. she was misconstrued by that. including w e boyce himself. but all the human beings are cracked vessels, we try to humanize across the board. i know wells, i wish she was in the house hold, she was a household word. >> maybe it will be soon.

>> so many voices, raising their voices. what does it cost? >> bender my bed. >> i thought it was every bed. indeed, very important to have these women voices. they want to tell the truth and bear witness. brothers too. >> tell us since we are talking about sanitized, tell us about martin luther king and his -- what do you mean by that? >> you mention his name, it is like john cold frame and knee nazi moan, just got to pause for a moment. how, in the face of so much

hatred and contempt could he do shout so much love, the face of so much terror? he is in the paddy wagon in the 1960s the get him in the dark with a german shepherd coming get him every moment. and in readsville prison, looks like martin had a nervous breakdown. one word to say, this is the price we must pay for the freedom of our people. that is why we are talking about when we talk about martin luther king. he is the product of a tradition, comes out of a rich tradition, brother moses is in arizona somewhere. he understands that. what happens to martin luther king jr.? he gets sanitized and sterilized because that much black glove and fire is always a threat to america. americas misunderstands black rage as always being connected

to revenge. it can be connected to black love. this is what love looks like in public, tenderness is what feels like in private. he was a tender man too just like malcolm. he was a sweet man. but he had a deep commitment to justice. when he died 72% of americans disapproved of him. 55% of black people disapprove of martin when he died. everybody loves him now that the worms got him. the fbi said he was the most dangerous man in america. how come? so much love. so much fire. why was that he was unpopular at the end? a critique of empire, the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, he was telling the truth, vietnam, trying to organize all poor people beyond

civil rights, adding human-rights, and talked about in 64 going to the united nations, bringing america to try for the violation of human rights of black people. that is the marvin it scared folks. and understandably so. when you are working at that level of love and fire it would be very difficult to embrace -- you have to embrace at a cost. it is radical. >> we turned into santa claus. >> exactly, turned him into an old man with toys in his bag, everybody can't wait to see him. the same to nelson mandela but that is another text for another time. marvin, this radical k keep track of the centrality of the love commitment and compassion and willingness to pay the costs. this was part of the challenge of the intergenerational.

is a love letter to the younger generation. i am passing from the scene. i don't need to be center stage. tell that to al sharpton. you don't need to be center stage. omething called grassroots leadership, indigenous leadership in these contexts. get out of the way of the camera and let the young folks speak, let them tell their truth. you stand alongside them. we go to jail when we go to ferguson. we want the young folk to know some of us old school folk, and we love them and love and deeply. we might not understand everything but we are in solidarity with them even as we want to respect and protect and correct them. we stand alongside them like cold frame allowing eric dolphin to play, cold rain could have been center stage every

performance. yet -- what the young voices in. come john, see what i'm talking about in terms of what it means to tell the truth but also make room for the young folks coming through because so many of them have been unloved and uncared for and unattended to and i have been so loved and cared for and attended to for three lifetimes. got the shiloh baptist church at yale and princeton so it is a matter of keeping the caravan of love for the love train curtis mayfield sank about. get ready, don't need a ticket to get on this love train. but are you ready for the love train? ..

everybody is a star. that ain't no joke. everybody. everybody is a star, not just beyoncé. everybody is a star. >> some of these stars, start lining up at the microphone because we will let you ask some questions. i will ask one more while you get in line. in. in fact, one of the characters i was intrigued by was ella baker. in fact, i think what you were saying about not being center stage was really ella baker's mo. >> sister barbara ramsey, one of the great of our day,

we live in the age of ella baker's. a relation to occupy wall street. in particular charismatic, believed like a jazz orchestra did, to raise all the voices, not one at the center, no head negro in charge who could be murdered or co-opted. you bring all the voices. as executive director of kings organization and the voices of stokely, michael, diane nash, a wave of others. ella baker was a democratic activist, a democratic activist, but she believed the centrality of grassroots because the meant to t5 the mental capacity and ability of those every day people, those james cleveland called ordinary people.

as you access their ability and capacity, you do not have to have just one leader representing all black people and all brown people, usually to be co-opted. and once you co-opted or murder, lo and behold depression, disorientation, and the possibility of those capacities in the abilities of ordinary people to overlook. ella baker is someone we have to catch up with. she is ahead of us, and she died, of course, working closely with my precious puerto rican brothers and the liberation movement. she was cosmopolitan, international, always at a grassroots level, and there is nothing wrong if people think you are charismatic, but you must use your

charismatic as a form of service not a form of conspicuous consumption that makes you center stage as an individual rather than part and parcel of the group. that is why count basie was always with the group. him projecting himself as some individual. he understood there is no talent without the group. we could go on and on and on mama coal and sister maria here, too. >> okay. let's. >> okay. let's start with the questions. thank you, on that high note >> thank you for being here, thank you for continuing with the struggle. my name is paul fletcher. you know you know my dad arthur a fletcher. >> from kansas? >> yes. >> yes. >> i just want to mention that, though. absolutely. >> i was skimming i was skimming through your book

and noticed one of the sections that i definitely have concerned with i read in the new york times it was $60 trillion that the banks used to launder arms and drug money from the cartel and selling arms to the iranians and no one went to jail, nobody went to jail, and yet jail, and yet we are going to jail for petty drugs. and i am glad you mentioned, , but when i tell people $60 trillion they still look at me like him talking about something that cannot be imagined. i'm like, yeah, it's hard to believe that when this economy is for trillion dollars and we have 60 trillion being stolen. and nobody. too big, they said, to go to jail. >> that was in the book, though, book, though, brother. >> that was in the new york times. >> outcome of the times? i thought somebody snuck

something in my text. i got you. i understand. >> in the book you start out in the beginning talking about no one went to jail before the catastrophe of 2,008. >> all of the crimes committed on wall street, insider trading, market manipulation to me are absolutely right. the jamie diamond calls at the white house and makes a deal. they get caught straight to jail. that that is a criminal justice system that is in some ways criminal, that is in some ways criminal. it is true. if you talk about rule of law for four people, let's have will of law for all people. for wall street if we have it for main street. what jane austen would have called constancy. increasing tuition, interest

rates for students, still out of control. the banks treated that way and students another. which group is more important for the future of the country, the student or the bank? what are we talking about? priority, not a matter of hating on rich people. some rich people can do the right thing in my view. i will fight for their right to be wrong. i'm a libertarian about these things that we have to tell the truth in regard to how warped our criminal justice system really is. you know michelle alexander's great texts of the new text the new jim crow. zero, absolutely. >> thank you for being here. my question is not about the case, the fact, verdicts, but what do you think martin luther king would say about

the reaction and protests and ferguson? >> from the young people themselves? >> what i am saying is, maybe how i feel, martin luther king stood for peace and peaceful protest. i am wondering, what do you think he would say about what is going on there. >> i see what you are saying i can speak on behalf of martin, but based upon his life, his work, his witness, he would call for resistance, resistance, but it would be nonviolent resistance. that is the kind of whether he was. resistance but nonviolent resistance, which is to say, he would not go to ferguson and say, we have got to cool things off. the cool things off you end up in a deep freeze. the challenge has always been how do you channel your rage into love and justice

rather than hatred and present? that is the question, and that is the question martinluthg with and answered it with nonviolent resistance. i think, in fact, you are right. keep in mind for my calling for peace and calm is not downplaying the violations that have been taken place, not just in ferguson, every 28 days, every 28 hours a precious gem brother is shot by police or security guard. this is the tip of an iceberg. you can't go in and say we are concerned about the violence of the young folk cannot deal with the violence of the system. and martin luther king would want to accept that. but like myself he was at jesus loving free black man who put love at the center. america ought to be grateful

in fact, in some ways america ought to see black people and give them a standing ovation. yes. all this hatred, contempt, and still dishing out the wonders about love. what is it? sending the contempt back and how long will that tradition line. america, america, i'm praying for you. you are in a world of trouble. >> is true. it's true. >> i was moved by your lament that ida b wells is not a household name. i'm interested. i am interested in hearing your thoughts about the importance of the intergenerational transfer

of knowledge of the struggle, basic knowledge of history to the sustaining of black prophetic or even to spark new fires. >> that is such a profound a profound question and is very much what this book is about venture not just for versus black folk that human beings all around the country. we live in a whole world driven by big-money. on the money is very much about the erasure of memory and historical connection. all are confined to the present. fleeting pleasure, you see,, you see, not the attention to the things that matter. and this is especially true for young people. we live in a timed our music is still dominant.

all they have is music. and it is so thin coming from the oligarchs that control recording, radio, video, live performance. it is rare to get a group that sounds a sweet and mellow. there is no group among young people that sing of collectivity,, no band other than roots on the national level. how come the young folks go to school with no arts program. it is a vicious cycle.

i don't have i don't have access to imagination and critical intelligence through the arts. some of them some of them can't sing in tune and still make a million dollars. net king cole turns over in his grave. i come from a people that were concerned about getting it right, and they saying the notes because souls were predicated on what you got those notes right in that church are on the block or in the club, but now with the corporatization of music the same way our universities are corporatized and schools are corporatized, integrity, pushed to the margin, just getting over the 11th commandment, thou shalt not get caught. that is will we are teaching our young folk. get over by any means, just don't get caught. that is a sad thing.

>> given the universal human challenge of preserving treasures and earthen vessels what comfort do you have for aspiring prophet who seek to raise their voices in a way that will not contradict the four principles that the boys highlighted in your text. >> what a wonderful group. miami-dade college. every time i count me found out got this good stuff for me. every time i come. i'll put it this way. >> but you're here now, though. you're here now. i think every generation that takes people who are full of fire, love, fire, love, compassion, willingness to pursue what i call the way of the cross is

a christian. there have to be enough examples around. a wonderful line. examples are the go karts of judgment. young folks primarily see marketeers everywhere they go. sometimes not enough good example. now they are more entrepreneurial. so forth and so on. wu-tang. it will obtain clan got it right, didn't they, crane. cash rules everything around me, but it does not have to go me. one can be old-fashioned.

and i do think young folks are hungry and thirsty and that ferguson is the pick of an iceberg. they are tired of the old models of the marketeer. give me something real. that is what young folks are saying. they want to see the real thing. the host of others. i have six of them here, and this is just the peak of this wonderful tradition. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i wanted to ask you in light of obama's immigration speech on thursday can you comment on how well or not wealthy did when he talked about this marginalized group. >> i appreciate that question.

one, we have to recognize just like abraham lincoln in fredericton t5 frederick douglass and philip randolph , our dear brother barack obama was pressured i the magnificent wave of activism of young immigrant brothers and sisters from all around the country. i was blessed to be a small a small part of it. we marched in front of the white house. it looked like we had the chance of a snowball in hell at that time. it took him a while to do it political cock elation. he did not want to do it before the election. he's a politician like any politician. we understand, brother barack. i applaud what he did yesterday. i think he should have gone further, but we benefit, health care benefits, other kind of benefits, pay taxes

and no benefits. there something wrong about that, something deeply wrong about that. he took the first step. of course he will get a firestorm. he will get that if he is singing out of tune in the shower. so what, that ain't new. what, that ain't new. in the sky is blue and grass is green. take a stand. because of part of my criticism is that he tends to punt on second down rather than fourth-down. he gives into quick, not enough backbone, backbone, but i was glad to see what he did and that we will keep the pressure on to make sure immigrant brothers and sisters are treated in such t5 but i say this, i don't like the fact that people talk about america as a nation of immigrants which overlooks our indigenous brothers and sisters, you see. that is not true. immigrants have immigrants have played a fundamental role in the shaping of america, but there were some folks who were already here

when they landed. they don't need they don't need to be in the room for us to be truthful about that and then there's the state t5 then there is the distinction between voluntary and involuntary immigrants. we laugh. violation. i don't know. i have not found out, but in voluntary immigrants, that is a different thing. hitting the ground, jamaica, the hitting the ground moving. haiti, they hit the ground moving, what great people they are. different circumstances. don't put it in the same category. some put it in the same category. thousands of bones in the bottom of the atlantic ocean that will remind us of that

immigration track of those precious dignified africans who came here and encountered a slave auction, , and that is also what we are dealing with for ferguson, already criminalized before we got here and still look at too many of our precious young black people as if they were criminals before they had done anything. true for brown, but especially for black. i appreciate that question. i applaud him this time. i time. i applaud him. zero, yes. absolutely. >> we have time for one more >> my name is louis armstrong. i i heard you say something earlier about the 400 years. what i want to ask you is those 400 years you are talking about, is they the same 400 years of genesee's 1513 or some other time.

>> in the biblical text. >> yes. >> i got i got to ask that. >> creative imagination, my brother. appreciate it. i appreciated. it is difficult for me to make that kind of late an hour late, modern time to some of those deep truth told that shape my own position and therefore i would never want to make any kind of direct parallel. i read the biblical text in a spirit. i focus. i keep track of what is in that text in the way of keeping track of the love and justice. it does not justice. it does not really spillover into the particular years and parallels. it is more the love and justice that i am focusing

on, but you stay strong. absolutely. absolutely. >> thank you so much, cornell west, such a wonderful conversation. i wish it could go on and on. at mac and you are watching book tvs live coverage of miami book fair how that miami-dade college. for 17 years we have been coming to cover this festival. we broadcast from chapman hall where a lot of the nonfiction authors appear. that was cornell west, of course. he will be he will be here in 45 minutes to an hour doing a call in with us as well, so you will have a chance to a chance to talk. you can see part of the

street fair on the scene. the festival encompasses several blocks. we take up a little bit of the corner of it, it, but we have 20 hours of broadcast and 25 authors. the full schedule is available at book tv .org. follow us on twitter as well if you want behind the scenes pictures. pictures. finally, you can follow us at facebook, facebook .com/book tv. because of the wind we moved from our out dorsett and are on the c-span bus. hector tovar is our guest. here is the book. kind kind of hard to see the title, but it is deep down dark. what is your book about? >> the famous chilean miners who were trapped underground for 60 days in 2010. >> when in 2010 did 2,010 did that happen? >> october of 2,010 trapped at the bottom of this copper

and gold mine between 700 meters of direct down. the first two weeks they were slowly starving to death and then they were miraculously found but had to spend another ten weeks waiting to be rescued. >> the mine is located in northern chile, town that is 500 miles north of the driest desert on earth operating for 120 years. they worked at the bottom of a spiral highway 98 degrees, 90 percent humidity, and the mine collapsed and trap them. the only way out was a spiral highway. >> and was it gold? >> gold and copper