700 meters of direct down. the first two weeks they were slowly starving to death and then they were miraculously found but had to spend another ten weeks waiting to be rescued. >> the mine is located in northern chile, town that is 500 miles north of the driest desert on earth operating for 120 years. they worked at the bottom of a spiral highway 98 degrees, 90 percent humidity, and the mine collapsed and trap them. the only way out was a spiral highway. >> and was it gold? >> gold and copper.

>> when they got trapped, what trapped, what happened exactly? was there an explosion? >> a massive explosion. the structure of the mountains gave way. it was way. it was like an earthquake underground the way the men described it. the stone walls began to undulate. there were explosions. another told me it was like listening to a machine gun fire at them. so they were trapped below. it was it was like basically living a massive collapse underground. they had enough food for 25 men to last two days. as the days went by they began to ration. they lived on a single cookie a day and then a a cookie every two days along with a spoonful of tuna as some dirty industrial water was trapped with them and they gradually began to die. they could hear drills coming for them in the stone caverns, so the drills

started coming down, but they kept missing them. they lived this existential tortured two weeks waiting to be rescued, found even. >> no one knew they were alive for two weeks. >> they believed they would be dead. many fathers, grandfathers, trapped in total darkness, the lamps of their helmets began to go out after a few days until they found a way to recharge them. the second day they began to pray, he rallied them. he said, we should pray. he got to his knees and in a speech will of expletives said it was not fair, we needed to pray, and from that day forward they held a kind of mass every day at noon just before the eight and prayed for deliverance. >> how did you get access?

>> they were trapped down there for ten weeks. ten weeks. they knew they would be rescued, pulled up in this capsule the lined by t5 designed by the chilean navy and nasa. before they come nasa. before they come out they have one last meeting underground and degree, we will share the proceeds of this collectively. no one will sell a separate deal. when they finally get above ground they hook up with the biggest law firm. that law firm calls new york literary and they contacted me and i was the person who got the exclusive access. access. i spent the next three years traveling. interviewed all 33 men. many tears were shed because the world does not know, but a lot of these men were for years row can psychologically by what happened to them. tortured underground by this

rumbling mountain for ten weeks, and ten weeks, and it ate away at their sense of self, dignity. i saw videos of them while they were still trapped in there were not the same in i had interviewed. it looked battered. they spent a lot of time recovering from that in the years after. >> they are all alive. that is the great miracle. they all made it out. a lot of people ask me, how did you make this a tense read when we all know the end? the answer is, this is, this is a story about who these men really were. a family man, most of them. many had pregnant girlfriends, pregnant wives. they went down to a dangerous place to work to make money to feed their families. this book is about their lives and how they fought to

get back to their families. to me it is very comparable to the odyssey. a book about family, odysseus trying to get back home to his family. these men go through an odyssey in the and odyssey in the stone, and the mountain, trying to get back to their families. >> divorces or anything traumatic happen? >> even while they were still trapped there were family dramas going on because after the 17th day of line was lowered, a phone line and letters of us of a began began contact, correspondence income falls. some of some of them got back together with their divorced wives because the wives show up at the mine, want mine, want to show solidarity with their ex-husband and the kids and start corresponding, one of the men actually got back together with his ex-wife. many of the men who were just dating their girlfriends while they were trapped ended up getting

married with them and so yes , there is also the famous minor who became infamous because his wife and his mistress fought on the surface. this is a tale at length in my book. how they fought, the two women on the surface. .. drillers who are ordinary

working stiffs, drillers are famous for being that a committee usually drill holes looking for minerals, and the drilled hole looking for head and found these minors through 2,000 feet of snow. the story is all about them. and on the surface to try to get them back. there are many villains in the story and one is the general manager of the mine who was in the mind before it collapsed. blamed -- were very poor, there was no escape, no emergency escape. they have limited food supplies, they almost starved to death. and i interviewed him at wang --

finos he is the villain of the story and spent his life trying to redeem himself. >> host: what is he doing? >> guest: continuing to work in mining but it's much nicer to his employees, a much better boss, more concerned with safety. >> host: what are the 33 doing? >> guest: they have gone back to work, most of them. some are retired, some were already in their 50s which is kind of volts for a minor and actually had to go back in underground mining that again, i describe this in the end of my book, one miner in particular a few months after being rescued from the san jose mine has to go back underground and the first two days are an encounter with his nightmares of being buried alive. and a short while, and they were

working underground. and rick they had got rich from the movie rights, and starring antonio banderas, hopefully of the book does well, more than they have already. >> host: it keeping the name deep down dark? >> the film will be called the 33, the 33. it stars antonio banderas as the man was the dominant figure underground, someone low in the mining hierarchy who became a very inspirational figure, rallied the men to pray, he often would have very sharp mood swings, he would get very depressed, he would fight with the other miners. so mario is the dominant figure, there's a female lead in the movie who is based on a person in my book named marie yet, the

sister of one of the miners and she organized the camp of families on the surface to fight for the men below and she will be played by juliette bentos. >> host: are they close? >> guest: i would not say they are close. they are bonded by their experience, by the fact that no one else in the world knows what they have been through accept them. a share this experience of being buried underground. having become world famous, they became famous together. they went to disney world, went to london, jerusalem, they saw the holy land. imagine going from being buried alive and thinking the world will forget about you and you will die in the dark of hunger to becoming a world celebrity, being shown the world. some of the complex took place underground, continued on to the

surface world. nominally the boss underground, once the accident happened, the collapse happened admitted to me he did not know what to do, not much he could do and surrendered his authority and set i am no longer in charge, and i am not the boss here. double vote on what we do and a lot of men thought that was an abdication of responsibility, and also someone, people who read the book will see is a controversial figure for the miners. >> host: the castle they were rescued from, was it remarkable that people in the states were watching this happen aris? is that remarkable in a sense? >> oh yes. 1.2 billion people around the world sought this. and chili and rescue work, a man who is a mining rescuer who goes in like an astronaut and has

been training the way astronauts are trained and submarine rescuers and 2,000 feet below. the whole world is watching and when they come, there through a stone cavity which is 26 inches in diameter and they are all alone like 30 or 40 minutes so before the world saw them come up they were alone in the stone cocoon, stone capsule. many of them said their lives flashed before them. everything that happened in the mind the days they were trapped, the day they met their wives, the children, like being born. many believe what was happening to the men as they came to the cavity was the childbirth and so yes, that is what those men were going to do. >> host: they send down anxiety relieving pills for the men before they took the trip home?

>> guest: they did. they tried to calm down. he had his polls taken by one of the rescuers and it was raising. he was just so nervous and scared and they realized, you couldn't be calm at that moment and picked one of the strongest men, and submarine rescue they choose the fittest men to go first. >> where is that capsules today? >> was on display at the regional museum in the desert. and much memorabilia. >> host: the book is deep down dark, the gentle story of 33 men buried in the chilean mine.

and the miracle that set them free. we are out here in miami on the c-span bus and the miami book fair coming on outside of us. up the escalator is chapman hall where we have been broadcasting live all day and the next live coverage of norman lear talking about his book "even this i get to experience" is being introduced now. >> is an absolute pleasure to welcome you to the 2014 miami book fair international. we're grateful for the support of the night foundation. ellen degeneres sponsors. and please join me in thanking everyone for the generous contribution. [applause] >> at the end of this session

there will be time for questions and answers. it is quite important for you at this moment in time to silence your cellphone. now it is my pleasure to welcome our introducer of today's speaker. [applause] >> today's speaker! [cheers and applause] >> are we on here?

>> we are on. go carol. >> i watch this inspiring crazy man for 29 years. >> she has watched this crazy inspiring man for 29 years. >> that is why i got the energy. >> led the microphone go. >> he is the most loving, wonderful man that i have ever met. at dermott? he is right there. >> her husband. >> i was at people for the american way for 20 years, i

think. >> president of the people for the american way when we needed a president most for several years and did the best job in the world. >> host: that was very sweet, thank you. wife with norman is never dull. i learned that early when i became ceo of the organization because we were sitting at the board table, 30 members of the board around the table and i lost my story. i know my story because you got ready to leave and you turned to me and started singing my sunny valentine. >> that will end the board meeting anytime. >> i didn't quite know how to respond but one more story, he

doesn't like to the board. board meetings bore him sometimes especially when we are talking about financial matters. he made it all away through. he came out and wanted to do something interesting if you can remember it this. he saw a later trey and tipped it up. he picked it up off of the cable, lifted it up in his hand and went walking through the lobby of the waldorf-astoria at and said cookies, cookies. your first question. which gets a hat? >> the half when i was writing 15, 18 hours today maybe as long as 40 years ago i would pick my

scalp and my wife walked in and threw a hand on my head and said don't take this off. it was a little boating hat and i lost it one day riding on the beach in mexico with the daughter on horseback, and came back and was panicked. it was gone. it was gone. for two days i was without a hat, we were flying to paris as it happened and the first thing i did was go to the hat andmaker in paris. i had three left. a lot of years ago. >> humane know that people for the american way is fighting for the religious right and the changes their influence has made in our american life.

[applause] >> i want to ask you about how you feel about where we are now end the fight the we are fighting now and what is it to you and the reality of having the religious right very close to being in control? >> most people don't see it that way. if they are close to being in control. i would start, i am not disagreeing with you. they are an element, i feel, of a culture that could take as 180 degrees from where we started. like david eisenhower, i am not a republican, but dwight david eisenhower who was, warned us in

his farewell address about what he called the military industrial congressional complex. the word congressional was eliminated from the speech that in the draft he wrote, it was there. we know it now has the military industrial complex. i see us, what he warned us about was the confluence of elements of our culture that could come together and threat and us seriously and he saw a war machine building which went deep into all parts of our culture. so talk about military industrial complex, you are talking about thousands of companies across the country who are making the smallest --

elements of a complex of larger organizations that are billed to fight a war. this is dwight eisenhower. i have often said to leadership of people of the american way, a post -- i didn't have the idea then, why don't we adopt, since the republicans do not -- how many people were running for the presidency when mitt romney succeeded? must have been seven or eight or nine running for the presidency and we saw all of those debate, 30 or more debate, there wasn't one mention of dwight david eisenhower, the guy who led us when we won world war ii which i was proud to have served, not a

mention ever and he ran the country successfully for eight years. he missed a lot of things. he was not perfect. i never met the individual who was perfect. the gay and lesbian issues, he couldn't count on dwight eisenhower's presidency on a number of issues, you couldn't count on dwight eisenhower and his presidency but where this system of roads, i forget the expression, our highways across the country and our roads, his administration, two, eight years was responsible for the beginning of, he wasn't a heavyweight with the mccarthy hearings, and joe mccarthy was a threat. team missed something, but we

prospered in those eight years and he left us with this special message, be aware there is building in our country and military-industrial complex which i see as feeding wars all over the place, and resulting in the 1%, and 99%, i don't have to tell you about, we are all living with, which derives, i think, from that complex. i am answering what questions? >> answering one that can be answered. i wasn't holding my knife right. to the book for a minute, and her lodged. >> may i read something from the book? >> i think you may.

>> just so you get a better sense, even this i get to experience, i feel that way about this, look at that, the glorious faces, i will tell you something about why you are here. 71 said it, with two pockets and the first pocket should be a piece of paper which is written, i am dust and ashes, i am the proverbial grain of sand on the beach of life and the other pocket, the piece of paper on which is written for me the world was created. so i want you to know that all of you are here because i woke

up this morning. [applause] >> that is what you are doing here. here for me. and everybody else for each of you. so this is how things began for me. when i was a boy i thought if i could turn the screw in my father's head sixteenth of an inch one way or the other it might help him to know the difference between right and wrong. i couldn't, of course. ultimately he and i had to pay a serious price for his confusion. in late june of 1931 just out of third grade, a month away from turning 9 i was eagerly looking forward to my first experience at summer camp.

a role printed with norman lear sat on the kitchen counter waiting for my mother to cut it up and so it into the close i was taking to camp with me in a few weeks. meanwhile, my father was about to take a plane to tulsa, then my friends in chelsea, mass. knew anybody who had flown anywhere. it had only been four years since charles lindbergh's through 33-1/2 hours in his single engine spirit of st. louis to get from new york to paris and the rare plane spotted in the sky had us kids chasing around the streets yelling lindsay, lindsay! flying to oklahoma was a big deal. he was traveling on some kind of business, monkey business, said my mother who sensed the men he

had fallen in with were not to be trusted and for my upcoming birthday he was going to bring back a 10 gallon hats that was worn by my favorite film cowboy, herman, i don't like this. i don't want you to see those men. jet, he screams, the veins in his neck bulging as he stood over her with his nose stifling her. that is where he came from. herman lear, or as he preferred to be known, h k, this case standing for king, a name he insisted he had been given and would never admit to having appropriated, was, i am going to skip a little here. he was arrested upon his return on july 1st for receiving and

trying to to sell phony bonds to the boston brokerage house keep a person and company. a list of childhood memories, a photograph of my father. on the front page of the next day's newspaper coming down the steps to the courthouse with one hand holding his hat over his face and the other man. to a detective. five weeks later he was convicted and sentenced to deer island prison off of boston harbor. that evening our house was filled with friends and relatives offering comfort as they brought the furniture my mother was selling, she having decided on the spot that we couldn't continue to live in chelsea in such distress. at one point, however, at one point, someone i didn't know but

instantly disliked offered to buy my father's red leather chair, the throne from which he had controlled the radio dial just as 40 years later argy would control the bunker family's tv viewing from his living room chair. as my mother and this scavenger agreed on a price i was devastated. the loss of my father's chair was like losing him twice in the same week. as if that were not bad enough, i would soon learn my mother planned to take my younger sister to live with her and leave me with various relatives until my father got out of jail and a family could be reunited. i clutched all that remained of my summer dream, that's unused norman lear clock, which i managed to keep with me into my 30s, even my 40s and my eyelids

bit down hard on the years i was fighting to hold back. at that point, someone, an uncle or cousin, or neighbor, placed his hands on my shoulders, looked deep into my eyes and announced with solemnity, if so many adults use when they are offering gratuitous counsel to the young, remember, norman, you are a member of the house now. this had to be the moment, the awareness of the foolishness of the human condition was born. i was just passed my ninth birthday, my father had been brought down before my eyes. we were about to disappear from family life. my own identity was no more than a thin but of fabric. i was looking into the face of this fatuous passhole.

arguing i was the man of the house now. he added with a smarmy smile i wanted to read from his face, no, no, son. a man of the house doesn't cry. how could i not have developed a deep appreciation for the absurdity and gravity of our existence. thank you. [applause] >> >> talk to me about if i had known i would have found the page for you. when you talk about maude in your book. you talk about her being your favorite character or person

from whom you received most, gave and received most. >> she was and reconstructed emotional liberal. she did know -- she was like me. she came from a place -- i compare myself often with rob reiner who i consider a second son, and who considers me a second father. rob knows everything he is talking about inside out. he has an opinion about something politically he knows it inside out. i am empathetic, i feel like go i feel where i have every

conviction my instinct is right, it could be wrong. i don't know the details like a wish i did. i am not scholarly. that was a lot. she came from the right place, she didn't have -- have all the conviction in the world. i didn't know about my relationship to the character until i was midway, three quarters of the way through this book. i learned so much about what preceded. i finished this book in my 91st year. i worked on it for four state -- straight years but i had been making notes for 20 years with that. it took 25 years to come through my life but it was only in the

last four years that i combed through it so thoroughly that i found out not just who i think i was that who i had been through all the years i didn't know. i am comfortable saying that, mine is just another human experience so a lot of us there's a kid in us who disappears awarded that way. to fight the world when his dad was gone. he hasn't disappeared altogether. >> something else happened when you were 9. according to your cousin you wrote your first home and the name of the poem was my

wonderful maiden. >> what? what is that? >> you did, you wrote that. >> there is an expiration, my cousin elaine who passed a couple years ago, always said honey, something -- the cousin i adored, one of the uncles i lived with before i wound up with my grandparents when my dad was a long way, elaine was of dad's family. >> she has a good memory. >> she had a great memory. >> would you like to hear from some of the people in the audience? would you like to hear from some of the people in the audience? >> i would love to.

>> we have a microphone in the middle and if you would line up behind it, we will take you one at a time. >> thank you for coming. you were great on david letterman's the other night. my question is two years before all in the family, the smothers brothers was off the air. i wanted because they were out of sync with the times, and wanted to know how you got away with what you got away with than in all in the family. >> i will take issue with get away. i don't think we got away with anything is >> as opposed to being taken off the air. >> i do know what you mean but a lot of people -- it suggests that some think, wasn't what the

american people were ready for and expected. there is nothing, no subject, including maude's abortion, no subject we dealt with that isn't part of the everyday american culture. there isn't a family in america that hasn't lived or known a family that didn't live up the street or down the street, nothing we dealt with that wasn't common to every american family. it is the establishment that doesn't think they are ready for this. that they are going to go nuts or sponsors get 60 letters from people. this is the danger of the religious right. it is a narrow group in america

but they can make an awful lot of noise. you deal with a subject like that and the mod episodes proved it. when we did the -- when maude had her abortion there was no big draw after the show. immodest amount of letters. people were thrilled or happy with it or like any other show. when the shows that was in october, when the show went into reruns in may or april, then the religious right was ready for it. they knew it was coming, then they laid down in front of cars, william paley's car in new york, my car in l a and carried on but the american people, what the american people don't have is

the information they need to be the citizens they ache to be and the encouragement along those lines to be the citizens. >> thank you. would you like to have are there ever reruns of "all in the family" any more? >> people tell me about them all the time. i don't know where to find them but there are. >> two comments and one question. the first comment is i want to say you are a big legend that the school. hats off to you, king leer. the second comment is i got to tell you i have great memories of hanging out with my family and watching "all in the family". we lost damage we watched a lot of television and your program we watched because it had a lot of messages, hate and bigotry were utterly ridiculous, we would all gather around, there

was the one episode where edith almost got raped and there with five girls in our family said that was important to my mother. the question i have is when did you have the moment that this was what you wanted to do? was it an evolution or did it hit you like a ton of bricks? >> there were two parts to the ahop moment. i had been married three times. i was being divorced first-time with two children. i was having a terrible time, it was very difficult with lawyers, etc. etc. and doing the monterey show, a fellow rider was passing

through from california and was also been divorced, had four kids. and i said how is it going? it is fine. with four kids you and not having a difficult time? he said no. species wants is my i married joan reruns. joan davis had a show on the air, a famous comedian of her time, he had done six years of it. his wife just wanted reruns so that was my ahop moment. i had to situation comedy. to sustain myself. the second moment was reading about a british show called till death do us part which was about a father, son in law, i no

longer remember who argued about everything. that was my father and me. so i had the idea. those were the two moments. >> howard from the miami herald here. >> how are you? we talked on the telephone recently. >> i told you one of the things that touched me the most in your book was the better than montezuma story and i think the audience would like to hear that. why not tell that us and should you meet be arthur again. >> that was really touching. >> i am trying to think -- we got two days? there was -- we did an episode,

several episodes of mod each year where the community had a telethon for good cause and she of course in her community would be running that telethon for a good cause and one year, she said we have a great show for you did tonight, this is happening, this is happening, and wheat have a meal montezuma -- is that the singer's name? paul anchor -- we had paul a. capps gardner and he is going to sing for you tonight.

so the time in the show comes, bill macy, her husband, is standing off camera and said it is time for -- walter said hold on. he is not here yet. you hear the orchestra beginning of the song and she says do something else, he says don't go -- you sing it. i can't sing it. he said you have to sing it. she says you do it better. she said oh please, walter. but she does start to sink. i can't remember the lyrics. she gets that far and stops, i can't, and he says that you are

better, you will do it better than sinatra. and better than montezuma. and the way beatrice arthur turns and says better than montezuma? i can't think of it to this moment without -- just -- and she sings the song and if you remember the character, she had a glorious voice. so if you are enough to remember it, there is a place in the book as i get back to adding up my life where i realized a lot of

what she was about -- i did a lot of things better. [applause] >> thank you. >> a draft dodger episode of "all in the family," among tv is all the time on, i stopped and i was transfixed for half an hour. i didn't leave the tv even during the commercial. it took me back to my childhood in a way i had not gone in decades. it had me upset the rest of the night. the writing was brilliant, carroll o'connor was brilliant, i can't get it out of my mind. thank you. >> tell the what the episode was about. >> it is christmas eve dinner. one of mike's old high school friends surprises him from

canada. he had been a draft dodger, one of the other guests in the house whose son died in vietnam and everybody is afraid to tell archy where the young man is from and why he is in from canada and it comes out anyway. heavy-duty fight starts about the vietnam war which affected all of our families all those years and at the end the father of the deceased boy tells archie i am glad he is here. >> the father of of that that had been killed in vietnam. archie says he won't sits at christmas dinner with somebody who escaped the war. then he turns to the father of the deceased that and says you tell him, whatever his name was, you tell him and the guy stands

up and says very slowly, my son did what he sought was right. he didn't believe in the war and he wouldn't fight and he died. >> he would want to be there too. >> if my son were alive he would be sitting with this young man. >> amazing, thank you. >> thank you. >> i mainly lost a few names but i would be curious to know which of the people you thought were the most brilliant in comedy. i have carl reiner, mel brooks, larry gilbert, woody allen. >> it is a terrible question. >> it is not a terrible question. it is a great question.

>> i miss spoke, i am sorry. >> they all happen to be very close friends, everything you mentioned. larry gilbert was the wittiest man i have ever known. line for line, there was nobody like him. mel brooks couldn't say anything felt wasn't funny because -- i can't start to do it. carl reiner could get up with no notes at all and have you in stitches in ten minutes and it could last 30 minutes. they were all great in their own way. one day a great many years ago in caesar's powerless, i met him, he liked me, he said i know you are not a high roller but i will treat you like one.

two houses with five bedrooms each, one at the golf course and the other in palm springs. therefore guests of the hotel. call my office, you can use those. you can use these houses so i called his office once in the house in palm springs, was open. five bedrooms, full resurfaced, so i invited the writers, bob brookss, the bill barts and dum-dum least, we were five couples with five bedrooms. and we had the time of our lives. so much so that for six or seven years following twice a year, one house visit the other house, five couples gathered, we called

ourselves a yiddish word which means the other word, the jews laughed. which means the other world. down to lease --dom deluise was slicing the cucumbers. great times. >> i just wanted to congratulate you on your audio book. i read it, listened to it, i wrote a note to you and i think this will say what i thought. apparently i got in. just in case i did not get in to meet you or see you, one of the unlucky ones hoping someone doesn't show up so i can get into the house. i listened to your wonderful audio book, identified with two

words you used several times in your book. i was very young, i was nominated for a local emmy award in chicago. the show was called popeye. needless to say the first person i wanted to tell was my mother. her reply was oh please. but mom, i said, i have a ticket for you. the next response was oh please, steve, go and have a good time. i laughed and i cried to. after missing to even this i got to do -- "even this i get to experience," i discovered i was not the only ones that experience that horrible

motherly love, and. i really want your autograph. >> thank you. you will have it. okay. i can't wait to read your book and i am sorry if i am about to -- >> we will wait. >> i am about to invite you to give away a punch line. i can't get the summer of 1931 out of my head, the story you started with. what became of you and your father, your mother, your sister? how did that in for your work? >> i don't know what became of me. my sister has been sitting in the same chair for several years

smiling. there's a lot of that around my life. too much of that. my father died in his 50s. my mother passed at 90 something, 93 i think. did i cover everybody? >> when he got out of prison to the family get back together? >> this was my father. when he got out of prison, wheat -- i was living in newhaven. my mother and sister came, my father was -- got out of prison on the new york new haven hartford railroad, stopped in newhaven. we were joining him. as it turned out we were going to new york to live with another

family, their friends, in not very small apartment that they had two children also until my father got a job. that was the circumstance, when the train came in my father was standing -- in the same suit he wore when he went to tulsa, now a size and have too large. i have that image clear in my head. then i got on the train with my mother's sister and for a while my mother and father were sitting together, my sister and i together and my father and i came and sat with me and while he was with me, he said you are going to be bar mitzvahed next year. i am going to take you and your mother and sister for a trip around the world. we will be gone a year.

you know my father. and i believed him, of course. when i think about all of these circumstances, we will be gone year, it gets me. that is what happened. anyway, we lived that way from handing out through the depression. >> in the house with the most loving, brilliant, prescient and that high note in his high school class he was known as king profit and he was prophetic as you well know, read the book, it is so rich and wonderful. i have been given the lines from behind the curtain that we have

to wrap up. [applause] >> thank you. >> you have been watching live coverage of the miami book fair at miami dade college. c-span2 booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction books every weekend. norman lear, "even this i get to experience," he did a call in with us earlier. he is 92 years old. a large stack of the miami book fair going on. you can see the wind blowing. we have moved -- it is too windy -- we moved outside set and we are on those c-span bus. you can come down and pick up a

c-span book bag. another call in opportunity for you now joining us, two members of the benghazi response team also known as oz and tanto. "13 hours: the inside account of what really happened in benghazi". we will begin here, mark geist, where where you and september 12th, 2012? >> benghazi, libya. that night, we were having dinner with people we had to meet that night and talked to. we had just about wrapped it up when i got a call from tyrone woods and he said need to get back to the annex as quickly as possible, there is something else going on, there is trouble

at the confluence. >> why were you there? >> i was working as chris was, private military contractors with the united states government to protect case officers when they go about their job. >> and where were you that night? >> i was in the cia annex and i was on the reaction force in the development count and standing by waiting for him to come back. basically you are on edge but it was another normal day and making sure our people are supported. >> what was the cia and next? >> a facility that is used to do clandestine operations. >> host: how far was that from where the ambassador was? >> three quarters of a mile, not

far away. >> a couple short turn that you are there. >> was it a known facility? >> in east department facility, work nearby, our facilities are not supposed to be known, but over time basically there for a certain period of time you are just going to see why spaces come in and out. weather and ours was known or not i don't know but the locals knew that it wasn't a local facility but it was known. >> why was ambassador stephen there? >> he was there to open up or open up a school opening a local libyan had helped a u.s. behrman, a pilot who got shot down in the ouster of the doughty, to support him he had been opening up an american

speaking the school for libyans and the ambassador came down to do a ribbon cutting ceremony for that individual. >> use two were not on the ambassador's personal team, correct? did you even see him when he was there in benghazi? >> he was out -- the ambassador did visit us. the ambassador of libya. he him by the day before, had lunch and he will come and meet for a debate. he won't me with the security team personally but he will give a little talk, a great job, what is going on, the state department doing it and it is more of the meet and greet, thanks for assisting to us and the chance for them to get better foods and we did and our facility. >> what was the security threat at that time?

>> benghazi itself was a lawless city. out side of the greater tripoli area and when i first got there, you never saw police cars are around. 15 days before 9/11 when the attack happened you started seeing police cars and even a policeman when they answer to the militias. they worked for the government but would answer to the militia. >> like afghanistan and iraq. that day being 9/11 was more threatening, that is a better question, it it is a threatening environment every day you are there especially in areas that don't have a solid government. is very dangerous. that is why we are there. >> how many american security personnel such as yourselves,

diplomatic security, there was g r s and some cia folks. >> yes. we got diplomat security officer, six of them. and the security team. >> and it stands for? >> global response data and there were six of us and the actual c i a staff personnel, 18, 19 of them. that is what we primarily -- >> 25. >> is that a normal step for a diplomatic compound such as this? >> for the annex there is never a normal staff. it varies on the location and what help they need to support and things like that. the consulate now, i have been probably in my 30 years of being in the military and contract in,

15, 20 different countries and embassies i have been too, having five diplomatic security personnel only is not normal. >> a low number. >> especially with no other security on their site. they had five libyan guards that were hired from february 17th martyrs brigade but that was it. they were guarding the tears. >> not in my opinion. i worked state department contracts prior to c.i.a. contracts and it was very low, very underand and especially with a high-ranking ambassador. it seemed odd to us. >> the cover of the book, it is called "13 hours: the inside account of what really happened in benghazi". the numbers are up on the screen. if you would like to dial in and talk with mark geist,

202-585-389 zero, free 891 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. what time did the incident occur, the invasion? >> there are several time lines. my time line when i looked at my watch, i said that to everybody i have been interviewed by and the subcommittee, 9:30, that is what had on my watch when we were called in the incident began and we found out about it. ..

>> >> we were able to get halfway there where they actually reinforce the positions were we would drive so we had to dismount to go on foot. it took at least 45 minutes to an hour to arrive from the initial call and by that time that was already a fire and the ambassador was missing. the building was filled with smoke and we are very able we could push them off to get in there to clear the compound to get to the

people that we could the nobles took an hour to reach the consulate after the initial call. >> why? did you get the call right away? >> that is the $1 million question. >> we were told to stand down. we were delayed approximately 27 minutes of the compound we don't know house side of our chain of command where it came from. we know it came from the standing orders and those came from the base is in libya but anybody hired? we don't know. we would like to know but we have no idea. >> host: what about the libyans? >> about 630 in the morning about 546:00 after the mortars a militia that is actually part of the libyan

government is what helped to escort us to the airport but that was almost 10 hours later but up until that time there was no real significant assistance. the murder brigade a few of their people had showed up that helped out on their own but there was not a substantial force from any libyan militia until about 6:00 in the morning. >> host: city went to the libyan businessman house and you drove her back where? >> to the annex while the attack was taking place at

the consulate we came back on a different route. >> host: you did not take her back to the consulate? >> she was never there. >> could you communicate? >> at that point to be a good listener that i understood the situation they were giving over the radio to make sure i had things ready because may do more than likely they would hit us so we had to be ready to major we had positions and in the meantime nobody but try to sneak up on the compound. >> host: how many people died? >> on our and we lost four.

those of ron and our team can those due to smoke inhalation at the consulate. it was tough. on there isn't we have reports anywhere between 20 and 40. there is a u.s. military element in there but we were not keeping score that is not how works. >> host: when and how was in passenger stevens finally discovered? >> guest: we found out after the fact, the gentleman carrying him with a phone in his mouth was a neighborhood friend. redgrave finally left the consulate and the smoke died

down the locals could go in there between 12 and 130 in the morning they could get far back enough into the of the law because the fumes had died down they found his body in and pulled him now. he died of smoke inhalation the reports of drug industry and tortured is a corrupt -- incorrect. he died of smoke inhalation. >> host: he was locked into the secure area you're a military background? indicated 12 years with the marine corps got out 1996 then i became a police officer's six years three of those i was chief of police

in a small town in eastern colorado then i started my own business of private investigations and bail bond then win the war kicked off i had to get back into the game. >> i read your with the ranger regiment and was with the 19th special forces group of a contractor nine years before they got me up and every country in the middle east have worked in and been deployed to. we have extensive experience there on the ground we are very lucky we did. that is what saved the lives. >> host: tactically what would you have done differently? >> tactically personally we would have disobeyed orders earlier and left if i had control of the supporting elements or had the ability to contact them there would

have been there sooner but our movements come of the shooting, is splitting up of teams, i think we did that correctly. i think that is why we're able to save lives and fight off though large force. i do take responsibility. is not leaving early enough or to save the ambassador's wife i take that personally. that is the biggest mistake it keeps me of that night. >> host: it was not our job to protect the ambassador serving in the area of operations that when they are there we feel we are responsible and the fact

we cannot get over their quick enough was probably one of the biggest things the way i would guess it in the most recent report the chief's base was trying to get the zero libyans to find out information to assess the technical information and. i will not depend on a libyan or a nationalist to do that i will depend on americans that are highly trained and retrieve the six of us we had over 100 years of experience. in the wars on around the world. tyrone was the most deletes military force is with us deals he had retired and was an instructor at the ads and

with his experience, if you have a guard dog will you let him do his job or hold him back? >> host: then there is a third gentleman off to the side who was also there in the book 30 hours. let's take some calls from riverside california. >> caller: my question is i heard the ambassador had some inside information in it was possible he was targeted and the victims that were beheaded wanted the information is that anything about that and god

bless our president. faqs. >> i can speak for myself that i have not heard of any information that was similar to that. that would have brought the danger to him. because of those sheer numbers is a possible? it is possible there were targeting for a kidnapping but no veto would have solid information and as far as the headings we do have information on those it has said it confirmed on our and so we really don't have a solid the answer because it has not been solidified. >> caller: when hillary

was testifying in made the statement what difference does it make how does that make you feel? >> eight agree. whether it was in that context i have heard it is in the wrong context but the matter what context somebody at that level in politics it always makes a difference. if you don't find out the truth about what happens you can not evaluate what you did right or wrong. eight garett three very much. >> me as well. we had people dying. our friends died. it is a huge difference when americans die on him and soil. -- foreign soil and today it still makes me a angry to hear that.

it makes us to hold on to tell the truth to put it out there. they you for saying that because i will dig give my heels to know that they know that it matters. >> host: san francisco go-ahead. >> caller: fate you for your service. i have a comment i don't think it is fair to take the secretary's comment out of context i know that she did not mean what you are replying. she said these people were dead. and no matter what you could not bring them back. i have watched that testaverde and i did not get those negative aspects of her response that you imply that you heard. but my question is, i am

sure you are aware of the hearings that isis has had of benghazi in the you have opinions of what has come out if it was useful? >> the hearings taking place are useful. we have to get as much information as possible to evaluate and determine what was right and wrong. the only way to do that is to kick that horse and tell is down. we have not reached that full complexity because neither betty on the ground

has been talk to. we were there on the ground. we told the truth. we told the house committee what happened. whether they want to believe us or not is up to them but there is no other people on the ground but us in our stories have not changed or referred. if the subcommittee wants to say things that does not represent the book then have them on the show. we will just keep telling you what actually happened in the comments but you are in charge you are a leader you don't say that about military personnel when they die. especially the way they died or when we did not have the support that we needed but i understand your position and is respected. spinach the author of 13

hours in benghazi with the senate security team. illinois please go ahead. >> caller: i want to say faq for your service many times people go into harm's way. that makes a difference it is important. i would like your opinion if the states department participated to close the embassy said in a proper way? he said he did not get out soon enough it sarah is like the best response was you didn't respond quickly enough to the situation on the ground a and we didn't get you out of there like we should have. what is your response?

>> the thing that should have happened first and foremost, before 9/11 is ensure u.s. facility rehab overseas has the access available to protect themselves because you always have that but also a response force to love those people to survive and not have to depend on themselves only this the best thing to do is make sure you have the strong president to put that bigger defense said you don't look like a victim or going down without a fight. >> either defend your team to make sure they are

properly defended or not. we were stuck in the middle you either show the force or the lead so you bring up the good point we will not fully secure our facilities overseas then we should not have been there. no argument. >> you are on the air. >> caller: what do you do when you were in the high style countries? can you go out or interact with people? >> our job is to understand the community and the environment that we were kids and so when we are not on a specific mission w do

sayings to better equate ourselves for what is going on in that environment and we worked out a lot and play a lot of xbox. [laughter] we're very lucky we are allowed to go off site whenever we want to. yes we do mingle in town and go to coffeeshops we know city's better than the locals and there are good people in benghazi that we became friends with that just want to get back on their feet and one their country back somewhere hurts us more than most because we do have a relationship with these people and when we leave they will die because of their relationships with us.

but we do read a lot we read a lot of books arrear over seas to know what is going on within the country and the history and to try to stay busy. downtime is the worst. >> host: is there a libyan security team guarding the consulate that night? when the break-in occurred they fled? >> yes. the murders brigade that group was hired by the state department to provide security at the consulate. vocal forces. they saw one shot fired but then they were gone. >> they went into the villa was one shot fired?

>> they are very, very good at planning. a and they walked into the compound and check and over without having to do much. >> host: is that standard operating procedure to have non-american is guarding the compound? gimmicks security is layered. just like a foreign government or consulate or embassy it is the u.s. personnel guarding that? because the people that will come to that are locals from that country anti-actors of the local security forces. >> so the reporter that needed to be developed was not there.

and because we developed a good reporter into afghanistan or kurdistan it has not been developed but the size of the force was not lot of the 417. it was in position. >> caller: from the description of the numbers of personnel and with their rich doing from what this gentleman has been saying and other information i have received it sounds like this really was not a standard consulate that more of the cia operation and there was

more activity relating to intelligence gathering and counter insurgency activities and what would normally be considered diplomatic activities. so if what i said was correct, is there a different evaluation and to be applied in terms of security or the way this situation should be approached? the second question, the man had a lot of courage and was a patriot, but i have to ask realistically commented the ambassador demonstrate good judgment in going to use the place under the circumstances that were

prevailing? >> the cia and expand the council letter to completely separate entities independent of one another. they're operations may be coordinated to gather back in washington but we were completely independent of them and those of us. event that is the case. >> i get what you are saying that it was used for cover but whether it was or not means is still needs security was intelligence gathering? of course, we are cia that is what we do. we have to find a terrorist

or al qaeda or any other organization. as far as the ambassador will he say it is his fault? no way. could use better judgment? if it was me i would have so i will not say i agree with you that maybe he made a bad judgment call there was the ambassador and he felt comfortable but working in the state department before in having almost 80 guys as your ambassador i thought he was under protective but he is the ambassador and will do what he wants to do. the fiber not have made the same decision if i was him. we all had to resign.

imus the job immensely. >> host: why did you have to resign? >> it is a part of it. our names were out there. the book has nothing classified in it but because our word names are out there and our call signs with the affiliation rate cannot do it anymore. >> host: what you doing these gay is --? >> spending time with my kids and my wife. i am a bookseller. we with love it if you cannot to buy the book. >> host: a couple minutes left. >> caller: i just want to say thank you for your service and for coming forward with your story. this is truly amazing

science sorry for the loss of your team members' it is shameful he did not have the support that you needed. with that said, what kind of response overall you were getting now that the book is out? when a you coming to columbia's the you can sign my copy? >> south carolina. >> thank you very much for your support. wed we are out there leading the people makes it worthwhile. it is wonderful to see what people say. is refreshing to see the lovely and the patriotism. as for south carolina if it was set to rise to read

every state in every major and small town. we will try to get out that way. follow-up sun facebook intruder we will though with mir in that direction spitzer personal names. tell the publisher you want us to be in your city. they drive the train. >> caller: they're just was not enough security there in the first place. a report just cannot yesterday the republicans who did the interviews and

there was no stand down order. there was no obama cover-up said you were out there trying to push a book to get your money because you have no job no more to blame it on a bob much and i think that is wrong you should tell the truth is exactly the truth. >> during the house subcommittee i looked at mike rogers in the eye and i said if we had not been delayed which we were, three times we would have saved the ambassador's wife and john smith's life and i will go on the record again to say that again that i have said multiple times what he cannot with the report he did i don't know what to

tell you. what we said in the book is what happened on the ground and that is the truth as far as bookselling i do have my own business i don't need this money we did not do this to sell a book but tell the truth we also deployed one year after that waiting for the administration to come forward and they didn't simply made a decision as a team to come forward to tell the truth so you had your opinion if you are entitled to that and i respect that the book is the truth. bottom line. >> had we stayed working we could make more money working and what we could selling this book. we did it to honor the four guys who died there. there were not honored we were in montana the same thing happened afire man from los angeles built a monument because he felt there not honored at that

time and this started two years ago when he started to build that why we do it in to honor those americans that died serving our country. hearing is --. >> host: here is the cover of the book. 13 hours. you were watching booktv on c-span2. now programming will continue up next is dr. west you saw him speaking earlier now here is a chance for a call in he will be here in just a minute. the street fair is still going on here coverage is

continuing from miami we have several hours left today in a full day tomorrow go to booktv - - speed 23 spee 23 we will be right back with cornel west. >> what could possibly motivate someone to join them ridiculous regime? i made contact and he in the unit were based on top of the it took one day and when i got up there i went through narrow trail to a small village at the top and sure enough sitting in one of five houses was a group of taliban fighters when sighed and sat down they were sitting cross legged.

i check out my notebook and started to interview them to ask questions like why are you fighting against the u.s. what type of society do you want what is the assessment of the '90s regime? he gave me terrorists boiler plate answers for all of them that 1.he said you were the first foreigner i have never met. in the first american and so can i ask you some questions? yes. he would ask me where at obama had just announced that troops surge he said wage your president wanting to surge troops? i tried to explain geopolitical concerns and domestic politics. then he said why does your

country come to afghanistan in the first place? he knew very little about 9/11 and i try to explain what that was about then he asked me questions about cultural life in the united states. i heard in the united states women walk around naked and no one controls them. i said that is not exactly correct. i've tried to explain the differences but at some point he said had you seen the films the titanic? he said hockey their country doesn't make movies like that anymore? he was the big fan as were many members of the taliban actually they outlawed the titanic because it was popular among members of the taliban they would get leonardo to capriotes hair cuts that was the first

inkling that i had got thinking about afghanistan it is complicated when you talk to people to hear the stories on the ground.

>> live coverage from the miami a book fair continues and is the 17th year we have come to miami to broadcast back-to-back coverage on saturday and sunday. this year 25 different authors we are still in the first day and it is a crowded book fair at miami-dade colleges kind of 20 instead of the usual outdoor set removed inside on the bus now joining us live is cornel west black prophetic fire is his book. what is the format of this book? >> i was blessed to work with a scholar from germany.

it was her idea actually serve to focus on the towering figures and martin luther king, jr. but i do want to salute you peter because you have high level quality 17 years you have covered this so thank you very much in makes a difference in the culture. >> host: let's go back to you into use the word prosthetic why are their profits in your view? >> they exemplify integrity and honesty and decency relived in such a market driven culture and criminality but to the

intent to be a person as an integrity makes it counter cultural it becomes more of a liability and though most subversive and when you looked at the figures there is a sensitivity to others but they are committed to be honest persons. >> how well known was dead you e. b. du bois? >> he was an intellectual and half of the 20th-century that the end of his life he was so critical of the men it -- america's role when it came to support after kin colonial is them and the

regime's as well as some latin america but so many courageous intellectuals who for a moment was a darling of the mainstream but continued to hold onto integrity despite the popularity they took his passport away and harry belafonte's held on issues supported emerging gain was the very poor -- powerful speech the most people said it was too popular to be associated with them but thank god for those who continue to push w.e.b. du bois he is like john cole train. [laughter] with that high-level and in their case it is genius.

>> host: who is elevator? >> with the biggest activism of the 20th century and the executive director. but then with the polls in the templeton is the right now and then mix of unbelievable tension they would exemplify the leadership from the leader coming from the outside.

>> host: cornel west what about barack obama? mimics certainly there is no obama with his brilliance and charisma to win the presidency without that black prophetic fired to expose lies and tell the truth to bear witness in a courageous way but he moves through the political system it is true for the black congressional caucus and once you make the move on the inside to have to make choice drones' pursues new drones are wall streeters remain street. gun rights our liberty so that enables him that we understand he has constraints. which the brothers and sisters regard to immigration and it is important but i wish she

would have done a long time ago. >> it to be mistreated and abused that he has not been engaged in any prosecutions or even as attorney-general. we cannot allow citizens of any color to be shot in the back. in dallas be have kenneth chamberlain in michael brown and we can go on and on. we have moved with ask the federal level and i think we should.

ella baker, a frederick douglass. >> host: was that a critique of president obama? >> let the chips fall where they may. that you were criticizing or haiti, a the president and i hate in justice. of the people as a christian to love everybody but let the chips fall where they may. if you choose to bail out wall street not mistreat that is a major critic of the president. i am committed to bailing a main street, orders but not those bureaucrats to have committed so many crimes. let the others get caught

from the justice system is to do tilted against the port. is a crime against humanity. what do we have? but it is a matter to be consistent. that is all. >> host: you may call a our guest. let's take some calls. dr. west we will start in north carolina. >> caller: hello. i appreciate you with idb.

day you do any writing on contemporary or specifically i have one in mind, what is your feelings on farrakhan? would you consider doing a writing about him or elis gemma homage? they are not in the dialogue guy just want to hear your opinions. >>. >> host: what is your opinion? >> caller: i admire both because they see things from a different point of view or different vintage point. >> guest: both figures are tiring within the black nationalist tradition.

but as the day of our hut is not devalued in america. but i take the position that i recognize of tokamaks who loved him but then later breaks with the light shed himself as he said i have been blessed of course, for many years with that time spent we work together in spend time at his home. we had a dialogue for seven hours. i was critical about

anti-semitism we pulled the biblical text added wrestled with history i learned from him if he learned from the and he can keep track whether i agree hr disagree his courageous that he can hold onto what he believes of the unpopularity. that is the important sign. aicher shibani anti-jewish iraq's store critiques. >> the next time you have a conversation simic we will vlsi the chicago. [laughter]

>> thanks for taking the call. i heard your remarks about music keep referencing data especially when people would play horns if you have the chops you want other people in their review in a race does not make a difference. what is with the same you wear around your neck and also thinking about 20 years ago i saw the reaction of the black community after the o.j. trial. was that instead of reparations or pay back? >> i appreciate the question. it is quite understandable to after that perceive human injustice that is chronic and systematic.

had you had that has the advantage? but every 28 hours is human to the splined but begin but i wouldn't it 1581 but 70 of them have records in 10 times more then the white brothers and sisters for the exact behavior. you cannot live in the democracy with arbitrary

police power at that level. or patriarchal power. is just more of an issue to be consistent. >> but this period of mike ditka sent pitcher this is bob marley's mother. >> how long have you carry this around? >> i have had so many years it is hard to count but it talks about the musical a genius with this city in the

integrity when it comes to so much misery so what i talk about the piano not just entertainers the warriors of the spirit who put love that the center. [laughter] and now where we raised by the way?

>> guest: in black neighborhoods, the church with kate took one of the greatest pastors. i have a great granddaughter. >> host: seattle you are on with cornel west. >> caller: mr. west i feel in the african-american community we are a to problem people so what i say in the united states senate what will happen in you had democrats for those the food

to put them in office. but nixon does not want to state my dash speed up to them i speak up about to do -- it is criminal-justice. but down in the south we should have black congressional members of congress. no whites. they have legalize these. so what can we do to focus on their own community? >> host: we got the question. >> i appreciate your spirit as well as the question because no doubt we live in a