but nixon does not want to state my dash speed up to them i speak up about to do -- it is criminal-justice. but down in the south we should have black congressional members of congress. no whites. they have legalize these. so what can we do to focus on their own community? >> host: we got the question. >> i appreciate your spirit as well as the question because no doubt we live in a country where the

conversation has moved so far to the right of with an attitude to foreign working people that the democratic people move to the right as well from the democratic governor there he is republican into the core. the not really taking the moral stand to say this arbitrary is in the wrong. is a moral conviction. that they won the election to take a stand for justice. >> host: so what does that mean? what about the militarizing

of that urban context? many say the same thing it was under barack obama exemplified of the police department that now makes ferguson and look like baghdad but the politicians need to be rendered accountable as well of course, we have too many black folks to look kid in the mainstream. >> host: you have 25 books now? twenty-one llord 22? >> we invited him to talk earlier today black prophetic fire. from germany.

>> i have critical words about obama telling the truth but coming from such shared great people we talk america as something about justice through our struggles and how low do we keep that alive? they got on with that freedom movement there was a matter to be sensitive to the needs no-no they our fellow human beings who teach what it means to be like the duke ellington and the sarah barnes and others.

>> you are on with cornel west. >> caller: i was charged with subject matter with the woman who worked for chase bank in the basic said prime basic rates to be sold to another bank in the dead date is on those types of loans was basically supplied

this delaying can you talk about her in the debate? >> guest: i am so glad you raised that issue. with chelsea manning and edwards noted in with the truth and justice to know about the mainstream institutions are hiding and concealing with the criminality there is a direct connection between the allies that cover-up and the crimes that violate people's humanity. had there not been able investigation of the wall street crime we will say without a recall there he was strong in voting rights and strong to make sure in

that context there was part of fairness. but he fell on his face dealing with the wall street crime. then head of jpmorgan to be diamond he could make a phone call to the white house to set up deals but never savor guilty when you know, they were can you imagine if we commit a crime just to call city hall? we will just send some money and we're off the hook. no. that is not the criminal-justice system that we need and people need to be accountable in person. i like them of that magnitude just like henry

kissinger in chile. too late to have a town hall and to make a movie out of it and they are off the hook and though wiretappers of course, . 60%. they sell drugs. is a war on drugs young people disproportionately black and brown. but these whistle-blowers

but it is high quality public life is better than rush limbaugh. i fight for his right to be wrong because i am a libertarian also. we have the right to be wrong he has told a lot of lies that the same time we you have government telling lies and is not honest that makes it more difficult. we have to straighten him out politically. >> host: have you ever met him? >> no. >> host: when is the last time you had a conversation with barack obama? >> not since campaign in 2008. i did say if he would win i would be the biggest social critic because i was

critical of the system and i tried to be true to my word about the system and the choices that he makes when he makes good choices to expand health insurance that is wonderful and the pharmaceutical companies i am critical but it is just a matter of time from what we are here to you do but what does it take to be a christian? i am very serious about that. through the moves of jesus christ to refuse all forms of idolatry to put blood in

the center is always perceived to be impotent but yet that love can never ever be shut out. armed troops and unconditional love and then it moneychanger its end of lost eight haven't come chris and but that is said jesus that means so much to meet end i love the agnostic brothers and sisters for their contributions but i have to be honest and candid where i am coming from. in what constituted this and i will go from though boom to the tomb.

>> host: calling from tennessee go-ahead to. >> caller: ag for taking my call site can it tell you how honored i am to be talking to cornel west. the one thing i'd like to bring up. >> guest: and i am talking to you sisters. >> thank you i consider you to be my brother. i have listened to you over and over again and you continuously say 400 years of slavery. i have done the math you put it on the united states but it did not come into being i take the date of 1789 to make it 96 years 125,000

people who died but not all for the abolition of slavery but my family did i don't know why i feel the need to say that. >> host: to what him to define his 400 years? >> caller: not you define it but defend it.utm

>> i went just like to add a little comment going back to

thousand years back to egypt for the slaves to ponder there masters it and be good to your slaves in the saudi arabia in many countries but question with the brown case how can you convict him if he has not had their trial? >> i appreciate both points but we were talking primarily about the new world africans in the modern context and what has been in place thousands of years you need to read patterson one of the great scholars with 87 different societies were in place we are talking specifically in the western hemisphere. but it is true i am calling

for a fair trial. i don't convict the brother at all. but i do believe he did something deeply wrong but i do not convict him by a belief than the trial but how do you have a fair trial if said grand jury says it is not transparent? talk about the black brothers and brown's sisters in those who would be mistreated. suit is not just about michael brown but i call for of fair trial but to find you can call -- kill somebody and not even be arrested? i would be arrested in one

minute. i could be in jail for when year before they even have a trial. they have a difficult job. i know that. but there is also too many police within the culture that get away with mistreating the black and brown kids. it is immoral. is just wrong. >> host: we have more callers waiting. cavan you're on the air. >> caller: it is up pleasure to speak with you. thank you mentioned a coal train to turn him on and i will put on myles.

[laughter] as soon as i am done with this conversation. but listening to you since race matters and watch on television but i have never heard your thoughts on the great senator moynihan report when he was with of labor department on the black family. with his references were to that and how would that have changed or not? >> very quickly tell us about yourself. >> caller: i na california

boy interested in these issues and a fan of dr. west. is an interesting issue of byte to have him reflect upon. >> guest: i appreciate the question there was as great study of the black family does fundamental your name to reconnect with loved ones but the problem with moynihan he coined the term the nine neglect they make certain gestures to know that black folks will not be any way taken seriously with their suffering they will be

tolerated for a an afterthought. but at the academic level certainly he turns out to be right but not for the right reason because of the behavior of black people doing massive unemployment with a red line of the neighborhoods and the services like water and so forth and so on so they produce said jim crow, jr. the patter's severed deeply characterized by segregation so i am highly critical i would say all the time we had wonderful all conversations but he loved

to drink. i try not to much. >> caller: how are you? >> host: please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: i have a couple. first of all, i have said dad who love you dearly. ion able to refer to everybody as brother a ancestor i remember tony brown saying a long time ago when it all comes down to where it everyone, as their mother is black.

the second question is this is with the farrakhan in the people always referred to as criticizing brother barack obama. what is your comment on an interview with the sister that we should be careful criticizing him so much that we could to set up a climate that could be fatal for him and i thank you know what i am talking about teeseventeen q. we have to get a response. >> guest: all critiques have to be separated from

vicious demonizing. especially the president in the atmosphere that so many people hate him and want to do harm to him that we have to raise our voices in a critical way that actually farrakhan is quite right in regard to welcome max and he is courageous about telling the truth but there was another question? referring to everybody as brother. >> that is how i was raised. but each and every one of us we're all one species to all

coming out for the species itself that he emerged from africa where is the africa of the other. we always make a connection but as the christian ahead great insight you don't want to impose closure but change but to transform themselves into a love that ended as well. we have a deeper level of respect for the eight or nine years. in to spend time we wrestled with the issues i just had a battle to have another dialog.

and others with the magnificent freedom fighters in fact, is true right across the board they are brothers and sisters and people i have deep disagreements with t-72 ever think about a baptist minister? >> that is the benchmark five called a teacher. >> host: may i ask how old you are? speesix 61.

>> caller: i am near orlando. how are you? >>. >> guest: i am blessed to hear your voice. >> caller: i am a high school english teacher and talk about how to disagree without being disagreeable and of course, i speak specifically to those that criticize you or publicly disagree or with a the president or not to be chastising the president to are we to chastise those in authority? says speak to us to verbally sustain the argument as well as being able to sustain the protest within our tradition. >> wonderful questions.

said you hate the fact they're treated unjust or unfairly. you hate policies but you can still keep track of the humanity. i hate the policies on the republican side of things. and if that means spiritedness but that is true for the black leaders as well. you have to be honest and candid lighted helos the policies because of a life of decency and you have a long history of that. each one of these figures have a tremendous critique

of the standard. douglas was called the proslavery president were we can change his mind in the book reminds us of that they did not hate to brother abraham. not at all. he was from the right side of town for he is the first to tell you he hated slavery and is open to the prophetic voice is -- voices but if i say obama is too close to wall street then i hear you talk about the president? no. clinton said the same thing. i said the same thing black presidents don't say a word

but all sharpton said over and over and we should not say one critical word about the black president but i tell brother al sharpton what tradition been produced you not to be critical of any form of injustice but you could still do that by questioning of policies for those who wrote those policies. >> host: you have the last word with cornell west. >> caller: i have a question of prominent black people of the last couple of centuries and one woman is so much for. have you heard of her? >> caller: a sculptor from western pennsylvania that has passed away but if you look at the roosevelt dimes

her profile -- he sat for her for the portrait that ended up on the roosevelt dimes. i thank you should look up selma burke to add her in the next book. >> guest: that is beautiful. i just met somebody from arkansas univ. pine bluff he gave me a magnificent sculpture representation of frederick douglass his name is henry but he is a magnificent artist and is in the same tradition of the sister that you just talked about. but i do need to know more of the history of black --

black sculptors'. >> caller: she was in the '20s there we're accused of being communist but of course, they were not but they were black. so she was said teacher for all the schools to teach about sculpture she is worth looking into. selma burke. >> guest: and the top down underdog but she has the play on broadway it is called farmers return from the war.

can it is an epic classic. she writes the music as well as the play. it is culture of character but also the foibles and the catastrophes but reminds you of the edginess of tennessee williams. to have that kind of voice still around is a wonderful sign with a genius he was. from the west side of chicago. >> host: the most recent book but i hear you already have another one. >> it will be coming out in a month and a half it is my attempt to understand with

everybody loving him but america did people disapproved of though he died who was this guy? hereof to the poor people including the four babies and trying to keep in mind the abraham what death figure he was. those a great prophetic tradition. >> host: cornel west we appreciate you coming to talk with our audience let us know when your book comes out.

coming up we still have more coverage from the miami book fair coming up in just a minute we will show you what was taped earlier in the day and the book is called the resilience to the event they will talk can show you that it is just a couple of hours old we're on the call in program so that is why we taped it. . .

[inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. good afternoon, miami. my name is pascal. it is an absolute pleasure to be with you. the book fair is thankful. we would like to acknowledge friends some of whom i see

here today. thank you for your generous support. at the end of this session we will have time for questions and answers. additionally, the authors will be signing books in the autograph area, which is to the right of where you are at this time. please silence your cell phone's. it is now my pleasure to welcome ms. miss grimes who will introduce our authors. >> thank you, and welcome. what a day.. what a day. we have all made it out here in the windy whether. it is an absolute delight to introduce to you today to remarkable women and authors who will have a discussion on the new novel by judith rodin, "the resilience dividend: being strong in a world where things go wrong."

a generous supporter of the book fair for which we are incredibly grateful. previously the president of the university of pennsylvania live, provost of the ale. actively participated in influential global forums including the world economic forum, the council on foreign relations, the lincoln global initiative and the united nations general assembly. in 2012 the new york governor andrew cuomo named her to cochair of new york state 2100 commission on long-term resilience following super storm sandy. a pioneer and innovator, the first woman named to lead an ivy league institution in the first: and the first woman to serve as the

rockefeller foundation president. graduate of the university of pennsylvania and earned a phd in psychology from columbia university. the author the author of more than 200 academic articles and has written or cowritten 12 books. "the resilience dividend: being strong in a world where things go wrong" is her latest book. from cyber attacks to food shortage crisis to strain volatility and energy prices, we can no longer assume we are immune to the world's world's wicked problems. we face extreme weather events, representative up you wish shift and global interconnectedness that make us vulnerable to the worlds problems in new and increasingly challenging ways. a way of thinking and practical tools for taking action to protect the world's people and

communities and shows us how to create a blueprint for change. urnalist, television newscaster, and author, moderator and managing editor of washington week in comanaging anchor. she is a political analyst andoderated the 2,004 and 2,008 vice presidential debates, the author of the book the breakthrough, politics and race in the age of obama. please welcome to the stage judith and going. app mac.

>> hello, everybody. you are just here to get out of the rain. >> well, our introducer talked about crisis as the new normal, and it surely is. somewhere in the world at least once a a week there is a storm or a new epidemic , civil unrest, cyber attacks, and in this age of so much in addict ability and so much turmoil, resilience is about developing three capacities, the capacity to be ready, to prepare for any kind of disruption, the capacity to respond in ways that allow you to bounce back more

quickly and effectively if there is a disruption, and the capacity to revitalize so that if there is a blow you are developing the opportunity to revitalize, adapter my and change. we need to shift our paradigm, so we are very much focused on relief and not enough on repaired miss and readiness. let me tell you just one short story, and i think it will make the. boston for at least six or seven years had in rehearsing, whether it was a terrorist attack or a violent storm or flooding. they did not know what it would be, and none of us do. for any kind of disruption.

for some reason that kind of disruption, completely unprepared, fairbrother together all of the elements of government, government, communication companies and water companies in transit companies and all of the medical responders precisely because they did not know what it was. they they had a plan so that they knew. they had already decided that no matter what happened if there was a crisis governor patrick would be the communicator. they had already decided the fbi would be the coordinator. in nine teen minutes anybody who had been had been hurt got to a hospital, and no one died. they used every event occurring in boston as a chance to rehearse. sporting teams who were in

and had big parades so that they were unbelievably ready. all, walmart has the goal of increasing their on-site renewable energy by 600 percent by 2020 because they are preparing for any kind of disruption. >> i think about it as bouncing back. does this mean that it always has to be a disaster involved? >> know because. >> know because obviously this is about planning in case something goes wrong. the idea is that not every disruption has to become a disaster. the dividend that i talk about is the investment in repaired miss that pays off whether or not something goes wrong which is the ambition, whether an

individual thinking about your own resilience or lead a company or are a member of a community. there are dividends for these kind of investments. for example,, you are worried about the economy. also us of amazing resilience. one characteristic of greater resiliency is greater awareness, the capacity to take in information. information. so there are all kinds of really good investments. i will give you another example. hoboken, as city we worked with in the sandy commission had for years real problems with regard to flooding, which was their big problem in sandy but also very little parking in downtown hoboken.

what what we are doing now is building underground parking, surface level will be green space with great recreation, bike path, running trails. the trails. the parking will be garages engineered with a new duck technology that will allow those garages to be water containment overflow tanks in case of flooding. so three wins for one investment. you have one example which compares and ikea which was built new and from scratch survived the flooding and disruption. of planning. so ikea was very so ikea was very well prepared. they were close to a coastline and often they locate insights like that around the world because

they want to be in places that are attractive, but their buildings are all built with the parking at the ground level in the showrooms of at the middle level and the storage at the top level. they always put their generators in the middle. they had very little flooding. the dividend was that the dividend was that they became the community resource center because they recovered so quickly. it is where food and supplies were given out. we looked at their sales a year later, and it was clear that the dividend for them is that they had been viewed by the community, and they are a community resource and maintain that going forward. so much of the disasters are disruption that you write about in the book has to do with water.

i think the training is a case where we would be hard put to say that city was terribly resilient or prepared. that takes us to the second and third phases of building resilience,, how you recover and how you adapt and grow. it is clear that new orleans was completely unprepared, and our work actually began because we interviewed and helps new orleans build back by helping them to develop their recovery plan. walter isaacson was just year. think about think about all of the elements that made them dysfunctional, i i great deal of poverty, having housing in areas that were totally vulnerable to floodplains, even if the

levees had not broken. a very dysfunctional city government and high rates of crime. it will be ten years next years since katrina, and i was in new orleans a a couple of weeks ago. and they use their recovery, the most profound and elegant way they took over the public schools. it it is truly extraordinary. completely diversified their economy. diversity is such an important component because it gives you strength. they have been rated by forbes magazine has a cool startup innovation place. finally they directly focused on how to build community cohesiveness, more trusting communities.

>> the government part, when you talk about diversity you have a different definition that would lead to mind for many people. so actually one of the elements of resiliency is diversity, and typically we think about that as redundancy, another example from the book. many people will remember the debacle of lulu lemon yoga pants when they were so unbelievably sheer. they lost $2 billion of market cap. they lost consumer confidence. they were relying on a single manufacturer company of the single, the single source of that fabric from a

single kind of fiber. so redundancy in that sense is critical, but it also is diversity. as we have looked at the communities that flourish in the face of adversity and those that do not, often those that are more diverse have different kinds of resources to call upon. so diversity is a key feature. >> is disruption ever ultimately a good thing? >> no. unprepared for disruption is not good because then it often does become a disaster a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. when there is a disruption, it is important to be able to utilize it effectively. we have a strong tendency

because of our legislative regulations but also to try to get things back to normal it cannot be the same. build resilience. there is something that made you vulnerable. we need to use those moment to rebuild more safely and effectively whether it is a personal disruption for cities or businesses. >> what if it is a different kind of disruption like watching a bola in a bola in west africa or bird flu

fears. how do you prepare for something you have never seen? >> developing the capacity to understand the situation and respond to it. making sure that you have fallback is important even if there is not a crisis. we want to develop a set of redundant capacities. the third element is integration. do we really have transparency and integration the fourth is a critical one we need to be able to separate out something that goes down when it does. in new york a single

generator failure took down the electricity of all of lower manhattan. we are rebuilding with smart switch technology so that you can island toward the network that which is failing so that it does not take everything down which is an important capacity. the final one is adaptability. how adaptable do how adaptable do you think your city or businesses? these five characteristics put you in very good stead in good times and therefore allow. we can never know what the next thing will be. >> but it does not sound

applicable in a community that does not have the basic infrastructure to exist to begin to have a hospital, a hospital, have a trained dr. >> you know, know, we work so much in africa and do a variety of resilience building. i would argue that i would argue that equally poor countries in west africa do better. at the democratic republic of the congo did better. senegal did better. and it was because they have the ability to call on whatever capacity they had more effectively. they effectively. they had more integrated systems, far greater adaptability. and we saw, even if they had health clinics, one clinics, one did not know what a group a mile away was doing, and that was true and how they were testing the communications patterns.

they were not resilient not because they were poor but because they had not held these characteristics into their capacity. >> another example, japan, as far away as you can get from west africa, the fukushima disaster ultimately, let me start this sentence again. the fukushima disaster was made in japan because of layers of layers of problems >> i talked about and analyze fukushima deeply in the book because they had for the first time that they have ever been willing to publicly analyze what went wrong. part of it they absolutely attribute to their culture,,

not being able to be adaptable and flexible the prime minister went to the plant and started calling out rules and regulations and orders. fortunately a lot of the workers did not follow him, him, which is so counter to japanese culture. i contrast that's ability to ship that governor patrick showed because they rehearsed that all he was supposed to be was be the communicator in chief. he kept digital wild fires from spreading wildfires from spreading rumors because he exercised his effectively, but there is a positive example, and i think that it does show the

benefit of entities that did have all five characteristics. if you take toyota, lost almost 700 plants because of the earthquake or flooding or fires. 370,000 cars. they slipped from number one to number four. toyota had this amazing to five amazing culture which in the good times really enables all of their employees to be entrepreneurial, make suggestions about new ways to make the product better, to communicate with one another, a lot of redundancy in their systems. they systems. they did not fall prey to the business guru logic of only real-time production or trying to tear down. and so they had all five characteristics. they rebounded very quickly

and revitalized. lots lots of new models of cars came out of that crisis , new kinds of paints and dies that they invented. two years later two years later riled japan is reeling economically 20 at a is the number one car producer. >> isn't that the natural human instinct to not want to acknowledge risk, let alone plan for it q mac? i got interested in this idea early in my career, and i would argue that we need to a knowledge potential risk or failure in order to cope better and is something that. it is easy to learn how to succeed. it is hard to learn how to fail.

part of resilience building is learning how to fail safely and not catastrophically whether you are a person or a city or a business. that is what this that is what this is all about. so we are building core elements of strength and we are building resilience in people, institutions, and our cities. >> let's talk about institutions because you mentioned the challenges of governmental political will. does this solution always have to start with government,, or does it do better in the private sector q mac? >> it is all of the above and i would add community-based organizations. the wonderful thing is that you need leaders on the top and the bottom. i tell a story i love so much.

a group of surfers a group of surfers who met on one of the beaches and had a surf clubhouse. the community members were sort of nervous. they looked like surfers, kind of scruffy. and when the storm said they were among the first responders. and often your first responders are not the police or the firemen because they do not get there quickly enough. it is your neighbors, the people down the street. so now they are integrated into the fabric of the community in such a phenomenal way. and so leaders emerge, and that is a powerful thing. not only the appointed or elected leaders that are important, and the benefit of that for the ongoing sense of community that we have been seeing around the world is phenomenal.

>> here is the thing as you well know, know, the government does not always work. >> really? >> i just heard this. sometimes. sometimes politics does not work, and sometimes the basic drop on his knowledge knowledge. it is a climate change argument between continue to have around the world. i wonder how i wonder how you circumnavigate that to apply these principles. >> i did a congressional briefing on the hill hill on thursday around this, and as i said to members, both republicans and democrats, these crises hit republican and democratic communities alike in the united states. there is no republican hurricane and democratic flood. this could be an issue that they really could agree to. about having multiple wins

for the investment. we have spent in the united states in the last two years hundred and $50 billion on disaster recovery alone. that is $400 per household. fema estimates that for every dollar invested in resilience building we saved $4 disaster recovery. it seems to me it is a very sensible argument to make to congress, but as i said, often their legislation starts with a build back the same mandate. some of you may be from vermont. incredible flooding, horrible rainfall. they rebuilt to respond they way better they get only

reimburse building it back the same way that it was. we have to figure out how not only the mindset has to change but the legislative action has to change. they are about to authorize a new transportation bill, new highway bill. there are more or less resilient ways. building materials that absorb water more quickly and release it more slowly, pilings made from 3d printing, bend rather than break is an adaptive characteristic of resilience for the same spend why don't we just do it in a resilient way? >> we have questions from the audience. if you have questions,

please feel free. after having talked to corporate titans and community leaders to you come away optimistic that they have heard the message or pessimistic that it will take a while? >> i am incredibly optimistic because so much of our work is with government officials closer to the ground, mayors and governors, and they've really get it. whether they are republicans or democrats or independents, they have to prepare their citizens and deliver services every day. ..

which were years and years was known as the drug capital of the world and had one of the highest crime rates in the world. and they were fighting with these things military and all of the traditional things that are used. i recognize though that may be the problem was actually their topography. it is a city built in all of the middle-class and economic value is there. but all of the poor people are in the hills and they were the ones being controlled by the drug lords and they were the ones who were there who were than the old granny drugs and the like and they were completely disconnected.

brenda hayek at the community. so maybe shame built a transit system with the metro on the floor at the valley, but then gondolas like vc and ski resort as part of their transit system going to the community. and the communities they couldn't reach, they built escalators into the hills. every time to list up and every escalator staff, they put a health clinic, a primary school or a childcare center. as though, now 10 years later, crime is down 90%. mattachine isn't a tourist attraction. talk about a resilience dividend. great social cohesion. it is an amazing story. >> we have time to support questions. why don't you go to the microphones to we can help you speak and we would love to take and, as many as we can squeeze

in. if you don't mind telling us who you are and where you come from, that would degrade. thank you. >> i am richard asher. my question is you have a ticking timebomb across this country with infrastructure. roads, bridges ,-com,-com ma look what happened in kansas city with the bridge collapse. i know you touched on a little bit about the roads have been more moisture, but how can you deal with that in the area you are talking about quiet >> we have worked very hard and i get lots of examples in the book. but basically it is the case that infrastructure investment yields dividends before anything bad happens. so not only does it improve the infrastructure obviously, but where there is good infrastructure, there's often better commercial sites about.

so it is a win for that invested. we are showing if the federal government won't act here, there are ways for the states to aggregate and create statement infrastructure investment banks. we created one in new york after sandy and it allows you to pray in private capital. there is a lot of private investment for infrastructure sitting on the sidelines, waiting for ever made to act, so we've been very help pull and that municipalities after their flooding, we've built an amazing plan that doesn't only protect the flooding, but those bicycle paths and nutrients a ruse, all as part of the flooding control system in their infrastructure and it is all being funded by private developers. >> thank you very much.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. >> my name is david alexander. you have spoken about sturtevant en masse got from it. for me, resilience also involves personal resilience. many at this staff that you mentioned are also stats on a personal level. there is a nether presentation that will be made tomorrow by a woman by the name africa alexander with peter alexander of nbc's sister who is very accomplished yet she has a degenerative disease where she is losing her patient hearing. the book is not fade away. and she talks about what is necessary for personal resilience, which is not to look back. >> can i ask you -- >> i want to see if you read it

and had made comments about personal resilience. >> as i said i'm a psychologist and my journey and thinking about resilience started there. of course people who faced the kind of diversity that you talked about are important directors about resilience. my effort is really to create in all of us more resilient people so that we don't have to build only after we face adversity and there are numerous personal examples in this book that really do reflect heroic individuals preparing and responding effectively. thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> type in a thank you for this lecture. i am a i am the knight foundation president at florida international university. my question is whenever there is a disaster, social media plays an increasing role. what are your thoughts on building resiliency quite >> well, i think social media and i talk about several

examples in the book to play a positive role or negative role. in the boston example and many others we saw, there was a need to be able to communicate effectively and quickly so that social media didn't spread digital rumors in ways that really prevent people responding as effectively. so that is the downside of social media. the positive side is that we have seen all over the world that often social media is that canary and the coal mine, that you can see a problem emerging in the health example of that and asked about, they didn't have very effective social media player, where some of the other countries did. and so, they didn't have the kind of early warning signs. we've built a disease surveillance network. after the fires out right. part of that is relying very deeply on social media as early

inception units and early warning units. good days and bad days. >> thank you. >> hello. i'm carolina chiasson. i have heard of an organization you helped found. having worked with artists for so many years, i believe the exhibit so many of the care or 60 speak out in terms of their ability to bounce back from failure with resiliency and redundancy. i am curious to know in the studies you have done with your thoughts and examples you cite, is there an example where artists were called upon working for us in ways that help for her saliency or response? >> yes. one of the greatest recovery and revitalization examples is the city of glasgow and washington. they were kind of down and out in a manufacturing sound like

you truly you are i live and rebuilt almost entirely on developing the arts, bringing more creative people in revitalis when artists are using their energy and creativity in the community. i think some of you know that when i was president of the university of nnsylvaniae worked a and reenergize to the very disadvantaged community on our doorstep. one of the first things that we did is as we were working on economic revitalization was the free space to artists because we knew if artists came into the community their energy and their creativity would help in the revitalization process. then finally in february one of the things that's so interesting

is when you go to the top of "the hill" to take a gondola down or one of the escalators down you see the people have decorated all of the elements. they have all become artists on their own because they are expressing creativity and imagination and exclusion in a way that they didn't do before. it's so beautiful to watch that kind of response. >> there are three more people behind you and if each of you can ask short questions and short answers we can get them on. >> i'm roger bernstein from miami. syria and the burden on jordan, on turkey, on lebanon. where's the resilience of how to prepare for that? >> rockefeller has an initiative we launched at our centennial

called 100 gazillion cities and i have to tell you that reading applications we have had 800 applications from cities around the world and reading the applications by many of those cities are receiving so many of those refugees and are completely burdened in terms of their own population, their physical resources, their energy resources. there are some cities that are more resilient. they weren't prepared for refugees that they have more adaptive capacities than other cities that are going to go down as a result of the refugee overflow. >> priscilla daines. i work a lot with professionals to deal with abuse. he said part of building resilience he is learning how to fail -- could you a little bit

about the use and building resiliency through the parents and educators? >> absolutely. i think we really do need to redefine what skills our education system is trying to train for. walter talked eloquently in the last session about science and math and all of those obviously i'm an educator and i believe that all of those are critical. but we need to teach our children how to cope successfully, how to fail more safely, how to draw outside the lines, not just are there are inside lines. our education system is often focus on learning how to draw inside the lines. i think that now i hope through this book in her other books that educators particularly in k-12 will be thinking about that because we are losing our

innovation and that edge. we pride ourselves on silicon valley and are amazingly innovative and entrepreneurial country but we could help our children to learn how to be better in invaders in the more resilient. >> i appreciate your continuing support. >> there has to be enough for definition of resilience. i promised you the last question. >> bob diamond from boca raton. wanted to say hello from nyu. she was a college professor. >> she was a baby when she taught me. >> i was older than the teacher. i'm looking forward to reading your book and i would like to ask you what jurisdictions are basically adopting some of these principles text. >> we see san francisco as amazing in terms of their degree of

>> we see san francisco as amazing in terms of their degree in resilience. and they are both referring, but they use the love of vhs earthquake as a way to start building -- they shared the life science council. they have all elements, whether communication, electricity, governments are integrated in their planning process. and now they have attacked in with buber and the sharing economy and that capacity is another resilient feature. so they still study. they use fleet week, which used to be a kind of bar crawl for the navy. it is all used to train for citizens on readiness exercise. it is amazing what they are doing. so we've seen lots about those in the united states and around the world and obviously we think

of the batch as being quite resilient. but they are doing it through hard infrastructure. i think what we are showing in this day in age from this day and age live free about climate change and other issues, green infrastructure if green infrastructure is a piece of dissolution, much less expensive environmentally and much more protect it and build a new framework of the 21st century. >> judith rodin, thank you very much. thank you, all. [laughter] >> live coverage from miami book fair continues on with tv on c-span2 as you can see the sun has set. evening time here in miami. the wind is still blowing pretty hard. lots of folks out. we have one more live events coming up here this is a scientist in the most recent book is an appetite for wonder. that will be coming up in just a

little bio. joining us now on the c-span bus is maybe not a face who are familiar with, but if w-whiskey were from a senior economics correspondent with marketplace and npr, minnesota public radio as well as a columnist for bloomberg. his new book geared unretire mac, how baby boomers are changing the way we think about the community and the good life. chris ferrell, when did the magic number is 65 years old come into play? be that we are going back to the 1880s with this 80s with bismarck and you come up with this notion and look at the evolution of social insurance in europe and we just became 65. franklin roosevelt signed social security in 1935. average less life efficiency was 52. now average life expectancy is about 79.

>> so can we still retire at 65 and be comfortable? i repaired? >> right now is an emeritus rethinking. we still have this incredibly powerful image. retire me. you stop working. he was briefly share. or this other image that you will keep working. great, thanks. i work until a jock dad. look at my quality of life. the thing is the baby boomers are educated. we are one of the most educated. our work, career, jobs, all the ups and downs are who we are. a lot of people don't want to walk away from that. if you actually look at the numbers, many people actually working during these traditional retiremenretiremen t years, but we don't know how to describe it. i call it sub for your encore careers. the british had this notion in the third age. but it is all getting part-time or, contract work, and maybe a

full-time job, starting your business. it is an enormous experimentation going on. >> is it because we have to quite >> is part of it. it's been hard not just because people are going to the mall and they lose control of credit cards. for example, it is really expensive to educate your kids. it has been very difficult for a lot of people to say it. it does make a difference, but i think there is a search for engagement, for meaning. work is also a social institution. it is a place where someone has a baby. you celebrate that. someone gets divorced, you help them through that process. there is an appreciation as a social institution, but also because we have all this knowledge. we are educated and people don't just want to walk away from that. >> and it's because you have a gift, an opportunity of longevity that we are living longer, so stay engaged, keep

the time, but something you kind of want to do. >> chris farrell is our book, talking about his most recent book, "unretired." here is the cover. will cover. we were like at the phone lines on the screen in case you would like to participate in conversation. 202 idea 53890. 585-3891 mountain and pacific. now, chris farrell, how many baby boomers are going to be retiring the next three, five, 10 years? now chris farrell comedy baby boomers are going to be retiring in the next three, five, 10 years? >> the baby boomer generation 76 million born between 1946 and 1964 and from now until 2030, 10,000 boomers are hitting the age of 65 every day.

so it's a big number. the other thing is believe it or not the baby boomers it's not all about the boomers. we simply are engaging in society. even when the boomers pass on we are going to be an older society. this is a global phenomenon. the u.s. has a relatively young population compared to places elsewhere in the world. we have to break down a lot of stereotypes we have about older people in their creativity in her knowledge because there's a sense of the real problem with our economy as we will have all these old people and they are not very creative and stuck in their ways and we have too many young people supporting too many older people but that belongs to a different economy in a different society the different era. i think we are going to learn older people are creative and they will continue to work. they will be doing different things. look you and you are doing something for 30 years do you want to do a? no you probably want to find something else to do but you will contribute and your employer is going to be

healthier in a household income will be higher in the social security bill will be easier to pay. >> is there room in the economy for the older generation? >> there is. we are shaped by personal experience and that was a question if you remember back in the 1980s i was asked a lot when you really have the rise of the professional woman college-educated moving into professions, moving into highly-skilled jobs starting to move into management and the women's movement has got a long ways to go still a 2014 is not 1984 and there has been a lot of progress. our economy can absorb a lot of growth. the fact is more people working is going to create a lot of wealth. >> 2025852025853880 for east and central timezones 58538914 pacific. you write that the specter of downward mobility in retirement is a looming reality for both middle and higher income workers

and you are quoting somebody here. >> part of the genesis of this book and you have seen this, all these long-term economic forecast with the aging population. it's not just people haven't saved enough in their individual households, it's that the economy is going to be less dynamic. i think fundamentally is this really true and what if people are more engaged? what if they do continue to work longer? i changes that calculation and so a lot of the gloom and doom about how little we have saved for retirement in general but retirement but people earning an income. think of it this way. you make $10,000 a year near retirement. that's the equivalent of having a 200,000-dollar portfolio which you would draw 4% and that's kind of a standard how much can you withdraw from your portfolio, take 4%. so that's $10,000.

if you make 20,000 you can start doing the math there so it does have a powerful impact on the household finances. >> one final question before we go to calls. you have a chapter called rewriting the social compact. do we need to adjust how we administer social security? do we need to adjust some of the older age federal programs? >> well here's the thing. we have never had a good retirement system. the best retirement system we have is social security and there's this sort of mythologizing about the defined benefit the traditional plan in the post-world war ii era but only 11 to 12% of private-sector workers ever worked long enough in one company to take advantage of that so we have never had a very good retirement savings except for social security. so part of this is if people are going to be working longer we want people to be taking more risks. i do think we need to build on top of social security or some

sort of low cost very simple system and there are lots of proposals over the years to make it easier for people to save for retirement. we need to shore up social security and we need to create incentives for people to work longer. there is a strand of thought that says if that we make things miserable enough people will work longer. no of we create incentives so that people will work longer here's a quick one john shogun. you have worked 40 years. as far as social security is concerned you are paid up. you don't pay in the system and there's no penalty but there's a bump up in your pay and you are -- to your employer all of a sudden. you quote steven landsberg at the university of rochester most economics can be summarized in four words, people respond to incentives and the rest is commentary. >> i think that's absolutely true. we have a system and i deal with disability. it's people get older disability

starts rising that we have a disability system that says either you are disabled or you can work. a lot of people live in the gray area but reforming again these incentives incentives. how do we performer system in a way that people can continue to contribute and recognize that they do have some disabilities. again think about what will it take to encourage more people to work and by the way that everybody can. but for the people who can they will create the wealth that can support the secam. >> "unretirement" is the name of the book, chris farrell is the author in the evidence is on the line from west virginia. >> caller: how are you both today? i'm interested in what you said about older americans searching for meaning and i guess you meant relevancy from working. as a former activist and wondering how do you engage

older americans who are in retirement to work with young people who are interested in progressive social change but don't exactly know how. how do you motivate them to become more concerned and engaging connections with the youth? >> u.s. hit on a really important topic and there's a grassroots movement growing around the country. there's an organization encore.org based out of san francisco. creating encore fellows in trying to encourage people to take their skills that they have developed over a lifetime and just what you are saying taken into the social server side of the economy. part of it is looking, people are looking for an income. this is not the traditional volunteer work. there's not a big demand for a huge income. understanding what you are doing, you are going to make only a little bit of money but

that's okay. it's a contractor you want that contract. i'm going to show up for work and i'm going to do this job and i'm going to try to address some of the most pressing social issues in our society. i think that this is an enormous opportunity. it's an enormous opportunity for a country because we have this educated generation that does want to give back. not in the traditional sense necessarily of giving her money or volunteering your time. you are doing those things but in our work lives working in nonprofit organizations and working in the social service sector, helping out with government agencies so encore.org is one resource that you can go to to find out where might i research this further and where can i in my neighborhood find somebody i can talk to? >> steve from stafford virginia, hi. >> caller: good evening folks. i want to first of all congratulate chris for his book which i'm going to purchase. i am 69 years old and i'm i am

currently drawing a marine corps retirement and also of course drying social security and i've been looking for a job now for a little over two years because i refused to give up working in the workforce. i've spent 47 years either serving in or supporting the united states marine corps and i want to continue to do that. i just want to again congratulate chris on his book and tell you i'm living your book. >> host: haight steve, are you bored to? are you frustrated? do you need the money? what's the situation? >> caller: the situation is not money. i have what i affectionately like to refer to as a sugar mama. she is very well-paid in her job and also a retired marine. so i do not have to work but i

choose to for all the reasons that chris has addressed. i want to continue to make a contribution and that is why i continue to pursue a job of some kind supporting the marine corps whether it be full-time or part-time. >> guest: thank you so much and what he said about wanting to continue to make a contribution the previous caller talking about how do we give people more gauged in addressing some of the major issues in our society. this is the kind of conversation that's going on and it's an experimentation. there's not a simple answer. we don't have an image that says here's what you do because we know what retirement looks like. we have a common image. we watch an episode of "seinfeld" and we can laugh at it even though we have never had an uncle or family living in a retirement community in florida but we understand. there's a cultural currency there. what they're talking about, this

contribution as you are entering this latter stage of life and continuing to earn an income and continue to make a difference that's a very different conversation. it's a very exciting conversation is very different than what is in our public discourse. it's fear and loathing about aging in america. well, no it's not. those are two calls that say why it isn't. >> host: just a quick short interview about "unretirement" how baby boomers are changing the way we think about work. chris farrell of marketplace on npr, mpr is well thanks for being our guest. >> thank you very much. >> host: one more live event here at the miami book fair, booktv on c-span2's live coverage. richard dawkins is just being introduced in chapman hall. we will bring this to you live

and a reminder that this whole program everything you have seen today will re-air tonight at midnight eastern time and we will be back again live rrow would also like to acknowledge the friends of the book fair ge. we would also like to acknowledge the friends of the book fair and we see many of them here today. please join me in thanking them for their generosity. [applause] towards the end of the session we will have a q&a opportunity with a microphone in the center of the aisle. the authors will also be autographing books in the area near where you lined up prior to entering towards the right of the elevator. at this time i invite you to please silence or cell phones and of course enjoy the program. i would like to introduce dr. eldridge birmingham was the chief science officer of the freston museum of science. he will introduce our authors. [applause]

>> at great to be here. i even got a book autographed of a young looking richard dawkins here. as you were told i'm eldridge birmingham the chief scientist of this magnificent basing bill to around the corner on that dynamic image of the everglades and the gulf stream and sitting between the tempers on in the tropics owned trade we invite you all to come in about a year but that's not the point tonight. i'm here to introduce richard dawkins but first i have to tell you a quick tale. i was a student at cornel university in the 70s when selfish gene came out and i was on my way and started a veterinary college at cornel university. i became so enthralled with the book and with the conversation around the book that i change my own career direction went into genetic so i owe a lot to richard dawkins. so richard dawkins has been voted prospect magazine's number

one world thinker, what an honor as previously published 11 books while still in print including the selfish gene, the blockbuster bestseller the god delusion and magnum opus the ancestor's tale. this is actually really remarkable when you think about it. richard is a fellow royal royal society and the rose society's literature. he was the not grow colder of the chair for public understanding of science at oxford university and is the recipient of numerous honorary degrees and rewards including the international cosmos prize at japan which i actually think is more credible than the nobel prize for those of you who know about the cosmos price. an appetite for wonder the making of a scientist richard dawkins shares a review into his early life is intellectual awakening at oxford and is passed to writing the selfish gene. here for the first time is an intimate memoir of the childhood and intellectual development of

the evolutionary biologist and world-famous atheist and the story of how he came to write what is widely held to be one of the most important books of the 20th century. professor dawkins is going to be joined onstage by jeffrey allen lieberman who holds, i have to look at this, the lieber chair and directs the lever chair for schizophrenia research and the department of psychiatry at columbia and serves as psychiatrist in chief of new york presbyterian hospital columbia university hospital. i will leave it to you and dr. lieberman to explain why we have studies of -- someone who studies schizophrenia interviewing richard dawkins. [applause]

>> thank you very much eldridge. i'm jeffrey lieberman in case you couldn't distinguish who was who. i will answer why a psychiatrist who studies schizophrenia is interviewing a scholar who is focused in terms of one of his works on the evolutionary significance of genes but basically it's all genetics as professor dawkins has told us. before he began how i want to say how pleased i am to offer my gratitude to the co-founder of miami book fair and also to the professor prodrug who is the president of miami-dade college for hosting this event. it's truly a magnificent event of something for the city of miami to be proud of. eldredge introduced professor dawkins which i could add two

could add to but won't in the interest of saving time. the reason we are here tonight is because professor dawkins in addition to his academic and scientific research has been inclined to speak to the public d educeubli and that is something ientific io nonscientific issues from the perspective of a scientist and that's something that's not easy to do and not many scientific colleges are inclined to do. not enough do it are able to do it so long to thank professor dawkins for his prodigious output and delay putting himself into the battlefield of the

public arena by trying to speak and communicatescieif in a way that is also at a precarious scientific technologies. professor dawkins has written several books now. the reason we are here tonight is this one, his memoir professor dawkins has written 12 books now. his memoir, "an appetite for wonder" the making of a scientist and this is a departure from what he is done before from his prior books beginning with the selfish gene. and i guess i would start by asking this as is a memoir and reading it i was i wouldn't say surprised but i would say pleasantly to find that this is truly a memoir of actually what your life was like the least her

ancestry and birth up until publication of the selfish gene and immediately thereafter. and one of the endorsements is from the guardian where they said quote is surprisingly intimate and moving book so why now after having written scientifically for academia and the public in the way you have why was it time to write a memoir? >> i suppose it's time to write a memoir because i'm still alive. [laughter] and more to the point my mother is still alive at the age of 98 that but she has an excellent memory so i was able to tap her memory for my childhood and indeed the book includes a few

extracts from her diaries. so it's a rather presumptuous thing to think that anybody would want to read a memoir about me. one of them are hostile reviews that i got an english paper says the trouble with this autobiography as it seems to be all about the author. [laughter] i don't really know why now. i vaguely had in mind that it might be a good idea but i suppose the honest answer is that publishers wanted it. >> we are certainly glad they have invited you to do this. i confess to having been familiar with you and your work particularly having read the selfish gene but in reading this

book i became aware of what truly is an amazing life you have had. you have had an extraordinary range of experiences and family and your ancestry, which is to pick it in pedigree in the initial pages spoke is quite fascinating. you are as thick, national origins are from england. he then moved to south africa. he then returned to tango and, where you for the most part remained in berkeley. and you had educational experiences beginning and rhodesia eagle, then chasing growth and england and then our goal and then another private school in england and then out to oxford, you see berkeley and then back to oxley.

it seems that it was really an amazing life, which in some way had contributed to you became and what you were able to do. what they believe that good or did he leave anything out quite >> it's really nice to have an interview with someone who has obviously read the book. yes, i wouldn't say that actually my childhood foreshadowed very much by becoming a scientist. you know, i was a bit of a late developer. it wasn't until i got to oxford as an undergraduate i fully became a fast science. and even nine, it wasn't the natural history aspect, but rather the philosophical ones. i was intrigued by 50 questions of existence. why is there life at all. what is it all about? what is it for? i early decided they biology,

evolutionary especially with the right way to answer that kind of question. so i didn't know whether he was fascinating. doesn't everyone have an interesting life? i suppose i was born in africa, which not everyone is, but our specie was. i went back to not just my risk, but every producers. by foundation, richard dawkins foundation has a t-shirt that says we are all africans. and it means bad we are a brotherhood and sisterhood. we are all close relatives and we all hail from the dark continent of africa. >> your family moved to england at age. prior to that you are from south africa. even at that young age, you had

a particular recollection of the apartheid quite >> no, not really. it was actually massillon, a british colony that was a little bit north. but although there was no apparent side, there was a typical british imperial faces and in this sense as a kind of patronizing condescension to the africans. we lived a life story to edward yen, almost victorian gentry surveys. and the men were called boys. so it was a pastry nicene -- i want to say that they were treated at late, but they were treated with condescension as though they were children, which is in no way a more insidious

kind. i am sure this was true of the whole british empire, probably the french empire and the dutch empire as well. and that really didn't change in till probably the 1950s. >> your first publication, the selfish gene, released a thesis to evolution, which is genetics and genes are the current sea of evolution and play a role as the mechanistic media by which pressures of natural selection and their abolition. so, in some ways, he wrote this in 1976, it was really pressing because as a physician who studies human disease in the

wake of the sequencing of a genome, which occurred in 2003, our whole understanding in the role of genetics, diverse wayne, which the dna chromosomes can express themselves as totally transformed our opinion about how we have an illness, how we understand human biology and life. you had anticipated this in the context of your evolutionary biological career, which is quite extraordinary. i am not sure if that has yet been fully anticipated on how you receive this. but in order to be, a little more entertaining for the audience, that may come back to the autobiographical status and get a little personal. your father was a botanist. your mother was a naturalist. you have been married three

times. currently married. you have one daughter. the thesis of the selfish gene is the way evolution works is that genes are inclined to perpetuate themselves through procreation. >> yes. i think the point here is that we see animals and plants have bodies, great big sea which walk around and do things. but what is really going on is information, digital information. it is just like computer information, which in our kind of life is dna. and it is only dna but actually survives. when you talk about survival of the city, utah about struggle. bodies are are another patch you to reproduce. they struggled to reproduce and that means they struggled to

pass on the digital information that built it in the first place. the genes that are now inside, potentially can go on for millions of years in the form of exact copies of themselves, with occasional aptitude, which is mutation. and because genes are potentially immortal, so in the information form, that means that the ones that are successful in surviving go on forever or for a very long time. forever. successful genes go on through future generations. unsuccessful ones don't. bodies are just a temporary throwaway survival machine for the genes that built them and their bride inside them.

because they right inside them, the death of the body is the death of the gene. the failure of the body to reproduce is the failure of the genes to get into the next generation. so what we see as we look around the world is bodies that were made by successful genes and by successful, i mean very strict a successful at making ancestors. another way to the candidate is every living creature is defended from an unbroken line of successful ancestors. every single one of your ancestors succeeded in achieving at least one heterosexual compilation. and that is not true of the great majority of animals that have ever lived. most that i've ever lived have either died young or failed to amaze. so we are all descended from an elite of organisms that have

back to the beginning of life, an elite lineage that has succeeded in every single generation, surviving after reproduce them in reproducing. so all of us, whether we are human or bad for wombats or hippopotamus or pine trees, all of those kerry who genes that make us good at what we do. what we do in the case of bats is swimming and by their arms through the treetops and the case of humans as thinking. so all different species to a different way. fundamentally, they are ordering exactly the same dang, which is working to preserve the genetic instructions that made them in the first place and that right inside them, the vehicle they

right inside. it is found in the vehicle they built. they better be good or they wouldn't be here. they are here or we wouldn't see them. so all the animals we see are good at doing what a do or potentially good at doing what they do because they are descended from an unbroken sign of ancestors and inherent the genes that made them successful. >> so, genes are the replicators and bodies are the animals or humans or plans or their vehicles. why didn't you have more children? >> well, i m. not a believer in the i.t. at that because natural selection, a medic selection is what gives us existence, that

should dictate what we ought to do. it is perfectly true that we are pro-grounds like all animals and all plans to spend all of our time and all her energy and struggling to reproduce. but the great glory of the human species is that we have through the process of evolution acquired brain are big enough to emancipate themselves to the struggles that gave rise to them in the first place. stephen thinker, the great linguist and psychologist put it well when he said i do not intend to reproduce. if my selfish genes don't like it, they can go jump in the lake. this is actually quite a serious point. one is a kind of political point. if we really did govern our

lives via a selfish gene point of view, if we really did, in our daily lives fulfill the aims of our selfish gene, we would be living in a very unpleasant society. we would be in a dog eat dog society, a sword or break a night, carried to an extreme. we will be indulging in this sort of thing that were historically reputed to do for genghis khan. and we've got beyond not. in one respect, we haven't got beyond it because one of the things that was built into our brains by genetic selection was a tendency for brains to set up those purposes, which originally would have been adverse or grow

so originally, we equipped in our brains but the tendency to cite other purposes like fine food, find a cave to live in, find a water hole, take care to avoid the evening by a lion or aimed towards the ultimate goal of reproduction. but because we were given in our brains a software to set up polls and subgoals, we can use that software, that whole seeking software to set up other polls that actually have nothing to do with reproduction. we can set up a goal to write a book and satisfy the publishers. we can set up a poll to win a football game. we can set up a goal with all of the different things we do.

most of the time, we are setting up short-term goals that we want to achieve, little knowing that the goal of seeking software we are using was originally put there by natural selection, for the ultimate goal of reproducing , having lots of children. but we have cut the ground from under their feet at that. we've now set up these articles, which are ancestors always did anyways. ..et up these other goals which our ancestors always did anyway but in that case their subgoals were directed towards the ultimate goal of reproduction. nowadays they are attracted towards other goals. they are like if they say reading a book or finishing writing a book. the goal of reproduction in any case is well served by the more proximate goal of having sachs

which we still do whether we want our selfish genes to go and jump in the lake or not and in our primitive ancestors that would have been enough to have a strong sachs drive. children would tend to follow automatically no world without contraception. nowadays in the world with contraception we can all enjoy ourselves and tell her genes to go and jump in the lake. [applause] >> now, one of them perhaps the most innovative and also controversial aspects of your genetic thesis is the concept of the extended phenotype and just reading from the selfish gene, the definition of the extended phenotype is an animal's behavior or their appearance