>> for complete schedule go to c-span.org. >> and now live to london for british prime minister's question time. each week the house of commons is in session we bring you prime minister david cameron taking questions from members of the

house of commons life wednesday mornings here in c-span2. we invite your participation via twitter using hashtag pmqs. prior to question the members are finishing up other business. now live to the floor of the british house of commons. [inaudible] can you tell me what discussion is held that this will be reflected in the final provisional settlement when the scottish government seeks control? >> that is exactly the detail which -- so much in relation to the adjustment to the block grant. >> mr. peter bone. >> mr. speaker, so that scottish national party can get its use heard, does the secretary of state think the scottish national party should be in the

league from the the liberal democrats? >> no, mr. speaker,. [laughter] >> order. questions to the prime minister. >> number one, mr. speaker. >> thank you, mr. speaker. mr. speaker, this morning i had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in this house, i shall have further such meetings later today. >> thank you, mr. speaker. in april 2010 i agreed with the prime minister and neck that the vat was a regressive step. the prime is what fred vinson it was far more regressive than income tax. he went on to break his pledge to the british people and hide and hike the vat up to 20%. i give an opportunity to restore his credibility and ask them to rule it out completely to pay for any future income tax cut?

>> our paths don't involve putting up taxes. we will grow our economy and create jobs. i'm sure he will be pleased to know that in terms of long-term economic plan a new statistic has come out today which is we used to say there were 400,000 new businesses in britain. i can now tell the house since 2010 there are 760,000 new businesses in britain. [shouting] >> does my right honorable friend share my concern is one top of not being discussed is to welsh health services? my mother died under the welsh health service and it was rebuilt and goods is routinely had been checked and were locked out of them. to see sure my concern it's taken a death of another person

in wales to get a change to this service the? i think my honorable friend makes an important point which is there's a debate on wales in the house of today but not a debate about the health service in wales which we should have a debate about because in wales they made the decision to cut the nhs budget rather than to increase as we've done in england. they haven't met an nhs target on cancer or waiting times since 2008. the nhs in wales is in trouble and that's because, not because of hard-working doctors and nurses not because of a labour administration that kept the nhs and has failed to reform it. >> ed miliband. [shouting] >> mr. speaker and was appalled by the abuse of people with learning disabilities. it is a basic obligation of a civilized society to treat the most vulnerable with respect and

dignity. couple years ago the cub said the aim of the people into the community about the assessment and treatment units. today's report shows that hasn't happened. happened. can we did it across the house we affirm this? >> we should reaffirm that came anyone who watched the taliban program like me would have been shocked about the way people with learning disabilities are treated, everybody knows this is been a problem for years and decades not for a few months that we've got to do more to get people out of hospitals and into loving and caring homes in the community. the commitment to get all the people out of hospitals has been that and they've come up with good ideas for how we bring together the health service and local authorities to make sure that people with learning disabilities are treated with respect. >> mr. speaker, am grateful for that answer both are still more

people with learning disabilities moving into institutional care than moving out, taking them away from their families and friends. campaign promise to take there will be a clear timetable so that promises made to b people with learning disabilities and their families are kept? >> i don't want to set up a timetable that it is impossible to me. we just received this report, and to be fair to him what he says very clearly is it's unfair to blame to cover. i think it's been a system failing and i'm keen not to put the blame anywhere. i'm keen we move on. and, indeed, we should move on and plan properly how we commission care and how we commission places in the community, using local authorities as well as the nhs. we respond to support in good time. otherwise we will make the same mistake again. >> this is about the future and doing right by people with learning disabilities and their families. i want to turn -- with the full

report is what of the patient waiting 35 hours in a&e and across england a&e are telling patients not to turn up. we see report after report of patients waiting hours for ambulances. does this represent more than so isolated incident but actually shows an nhs in england at breaking point the? >> what the figures show is just the nhs is under pressure and the figures are these. last week 429,000 people presented at accident and emergency units across england. that is 3000 more patients every day than i did last government. so what's happened is big increase in accident and emergency admissions. the target as he knows is to see 95% within four hours. the running total for this year is 94.7%, so .3% below what we

were meant to achieve. the key thing is what we going to do to respond to these problems in a&e? what we're doing is putting 700 boeing pounds more into the nhs this year. we are only able to do that because we have a strong and growing economy. that is the key. you can only have a strong nhs together strong economy. >> mr. speaker, the truth is a&e is a symptom of the crisis in elderly care and their relation to getting to see a gp. one of the biggest problems is that one in four people are unable to get to see a gp within a week. we even heard yesterday from the health secretary that this is a problem. mr. speaker, what does it say about the nhs when the health secretary said, he goes to a&e, he can't get a gp appointment the? >> yet again becomes to this house and raises a problem that

he created. [shouting] it was the labour party is -- the labour party's gp contractor after that happened 90% of doctors opted out of out of our secure. that is what we're putting in place arrangements for 70 openings for gps, already severely people have access to that. but i repeat, if you can't run the economy you can't run the nhs. he couldn't run either. >> the truth is we introduced evening and weekend openings. he cut it. we open walking centers. he shut them. and he promised to improve gp access and he hasn't delivered it and it's happening on his watch. and today, mr. speaker, the king's fund says with our emergency injection of resources the nhs is going to face financial meltdown. this is exactly the same pattern

we saw under the last tory government. winter crisis followed by emergency bailout. isn't it a damning indictment of his record on nhs so we're back to those days? >> what we have with the nhs is discovered putting 12.7 billion pounds more into the nhs. that's why we've got 1200 more nurses, 8000 more doctors, and patients are being treated with greater care. the real point is this -- he famously forgot to mention the deficit, and we know what happens when you forget about the deficit. look what happened to help your spending in portugal, cut by 70% to look what happened to health care spending increase, cut by 14%. he can't run the economy. he can't run the nhs. he's got no plan for either. >> i will tell them what's happening. deficits are rising right across

the nhs because of his of his mismanagement, is topped in reorganization that nobody wanted and nobody voted for. he has turned the nhs from a service that was succeeding to a service in crisis. it is a crisis of his making. he closed th the walking centero keep it is the top in reorganization. he canceled the gp target for people to get them to see their gp. he has broken his promises to only a labour government can save the national health service. >> what he forgets is when we put 12.7 billion pounds into the nhs, his shadow health secretary said he was a responsible. it's only because we have safeguard the economy that we can safeguard the nhs. the fact is he forgets the deficit. his shadow health secretary forgets the steps, and both of them have forgotten you only get a storm health service with the strong economy.

>> dr. john q. >> thank you, mr. speaker. manufacturing company and my constituents provides portable incinerators to the united nations that's crucial and vital in addressing the issue of ebola. they're now offering to contribute to make up for the 2000 pounds worth of equipment if the government will match it. with the government consider this proposal? >> i will certainly ge give the proposal he makes. after all, we backed the ebola fundraising that was very effective in the excellent england scotland international which raise issues amount of money for ebola and also we also acted on the band-aid single so we will have a close look at what he said. >> prime minister, race report by the respected -- foundation, found unfair tax and benefit changes have resulted in a result of house at half of

households losing out. that makes me angry. what does that make the prime minister feels because i've studied this report carefully and what a gorgeous this is the rise in adult poverty this report outlines occurred on labour's watch. since the election we have seen 600,000 fewer people in relative poverty can six oh 70,000 fewer workers -- were close households, 300,000 fewer children in poverty. the other point about this report, mr. speaker, i'm sure that also want to do this is the report only covers the income figures up to the. of april 2013. the report says since the middle of last year there have been huge increases in employment which will have an effect on incomes and poverty. that is right. >> mr. speaker, in my constituency we are very proud of local boys lewis hamilton.

[shouting] and with the prime minister join me in congratulating lewis, congratulating those who helped design the car, and mercies of course and does he agree with me that a british motor racing is not like is a lot of entertainment but it also gives us jobs, in getting skills and british success of? >> i certainly join my honorable friend in praising lewis hamilton. hamilton. he's the young men with nerves of steel, huge ability i think you put in our country proud. my honorable friend is right. we shouldn't just be proud of the drivers that we should be proud of the industry. because the fact is all 19 of the formula one races last year were won by british built cars. this is an enormous industry for our country. to our 43,000 people employed in oxfordshire alone in this issue. it's also with remember and it's not just formula one.

i had a reception at number 10 downing street, and it's important remember that goes all the way from go karting up to formula one and lewis hamilton started off in a go kart. >> recent figures show we'll wages have fallen up to 9% increases with those that work last year earning less than thea living wage. this is leading to extensive and work probably especially in areas like the northeast that already have lower incomes. how can the prime minister said we're all in this together? what's he going to do to this issue? >> first of all we will go on growing the economy, creating jobs and crucially cutting people's taxes. the best way to help with this issue is to do what we've done which is to lift 39 of the lowest paid people out of poverty altogether, and to cut taxes for 26 million more. what the big issue is two-thirds of the jobs we have created have

been full-time jobs not part-time jobs. the long-term economic plan is working. >> a few weeks ago i 92 bed hospital in sierra leone was completed at a cost of too many pounds to the british taxpayer. that is a good thing. as of last night it was looking after five patients. it is run by save the children kidney make sure the hospital is make proper use of? >> my right honorable friend is right. it's good it has been built and built roughly on time with her exhibition about his operation and the work we're doing with save the children and we're working with them to make sure the hospital reaches its full capacity and its full use.

>> prime minister, people living in -- [inaudible] pandering to ukip has been a disaster for the prime minister and the tory party. isn't it time to stand up to its agenda? my country might be dragged down because of ukip? how could i possibly be right? >> i would say it's something his party and the ukip have in common, which is a seek to divide people. we stand for united kingdom and bringing people together. [shouting] >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome the prime minister's strong support to protecting funding for the nhs, and also the drive towards efficiency.

but they needs are great, particularly at children's mental health services, for adults and crisis, and social care. will the prime minister give his support to additional resources to the nhs and social care in the forthcoming autumn statement of? >> welcome my honorable friend will have to wait for the chancellor and his autumn statement to assess at a moment ago we've been able to put more money into the nhs and to make sure the nhs and social care are working better together for instance, with the medicare fund because with a strong economy that can deliver those resources. i'm committed to making sure we safeguard and improve our nhs and that means everything to do with our nhs including of course mental health that she mentioned. >> will the prime minister condemn the new israeli government building which removes national rights from all the israeli citizens who are not

jews, makes hebrew the one national language and has been denounced by the israeli attorney general as causing a deterioration in the democratic character of the state? will he make it clear that statutory repressive removal of citizenship rights on the basis of religion will turn israel into an apartheid state of? >> what i would say to the honorable gentleman is this, one of the reasons i'm such a strong supporter of israel is that it is a country that has given rights and democracy to its people. it's important that continues. we look across the region and to look at those indexes of freedom, you see that israel is one of the few countries that actually takes the boxes and it's important continues to do so. >> the prime minister i'm sure will share my enthusiasm that it was confirmed this week 300 jobs are being created to build and

construct and maintain and to offshore wind farm. many jobs and my constituents. does this not prove -- with the condemn those people who destroy green jobs of? >> i think what you see under this government, of which until recently he was a part of is that we have seen consistent levels of investment into green energy which is producing jobs in our country. it's welcoming what's happening in new haven but it's also very welcome what's happening in of the large investment which is not just about making wind turbines is also going to be a huge commend all the huge supply as well. >> on saturday i attended the service at the birmingham cathedral along with the families of those that lost loved ones in the 1974 -- summit

after a 40 year long wait there still no action to bring to justice the perpetrators of that action. were taken from what action is going to take? >> first of all our sympathies and condolences should still go to those people lost their relatives 40 years ago. when you lose a relative, that stays with you and the grief and pain stays with you forever. i think it is important we continue to work to try and make sure we address all the issues that happened in the past and find those that are responsible and to help him come to terms with what is happening and they needs to happen in northern ireland as well as on the mainland. >> with i see a white van, tried to i think of a small business owner who works long hours. long hours to put food on the family table. when i see the cross of st. george i think of the words of my constituent when shakespeare, this blessed plot,

this blessed plot -- [shouting] this birth, this england. [shouting] will my honorable friend with me that we shouldn't smear at people who work hard, who love their country? [shouting] >> i agree -- [shouting] i agree with every word. i agree with every word my honorable friend has a big impact, turn to i was will the labour benches were so quiet and i realize of course the shadow attorney general make so much noise isn't here today. [laughter] probably out taking pictures of people's houses i suspect. but we know what that meant about the moderate labour party. staring at people who work hard and love their country. [shouting]

>> thank you very much, mr. speaker. can the prime minister to the house how much taxpayers money has gone to spend challenging the eu bank -- [inaudible] >> we are taking some approach is that that was by the bank of government about all the experts who advises in that position but i think it is important to stand up to brussels and to challenge when you think they got it wrong. >> mr. speaker, is the prime minister over the years in the london borough with high concentration of older people will be substantially hit by the financial -- of the care act? will he meet with me and a delegation to look at more

equitable funding arrangements for older people speak as i will make sure my honorable friend has a meaning. i think it is important to care act makes a very important breakthrough in terms of providing care for people in making sure that his quality care for people. also what i would add, if he does have high concentration of old people in his constituency, they will welcome the fact that by next year the basic state pension will be 950 pounds higher than when we came to government in 2010. >> does the prime minister think he is right to give -- a 70 million contract when the question -- [inaudible] and allegations of serious abuse and sexual violence? does he not agree a full independent inquiry into these allegations should have been carried out before it was signed

off on that contract? >> i think it's important when these contracts have gone wrong, and he's right in some cases they have gone wrong, that this is probably looked outcome investigated and lessons are learned. and on occasion we've made sure that series amounts of money has been recovered from the company's concern. what i think we shouldn't do is use one or two bad contracts to fulfill the trade union stream of indigo contracts altogether. >> thank you, mr. speaker. can i think of the prime minister for his government designating work in my constituency? can ask him what steps this government is taking to address manufacturing and investment? >> i think of are grateful to my honorable friend for what he says about war in. the enterprise czar are all up and running, working oh, great over 12 and a half thousand jobs before absurd for different businesses coming into the enterprise zone, making sure they succeed means we have to market them better.

in terms of our manufacture of the promoting to companies attacks which we have, the patient box from the sport of institute epidemic country to support advanced manufacturing, we bring all those things together. it's clear to me there is no better place to invest in europe right now than to come and invest in britain. >> thank you, mr. speaker. first thing i see when think of when i see a wiseman is whether it's my father or my brother driving it. -- a white van. [laughter] [shouting] mr. speaker, mr. speaker, mr. speaker, -- >> thank you, mr. speaker. the national office is revealed

-- have been made at the expense of adult social care. this is the prime ministers disaster but can he tell the house did what is the cost of this failure of? >> first limited to a few townspeople were carte want to get on he out to cross the block. [shouting] >> on this issue of social care, on this issue of social care, what we have done is introduced the better care fund which has taken money and pulled it between nhs and social services to make sure that they can work together. it's vital we do that and i'm sure he is working in his local area to make sure that happens. >> the royal auxiliary fleet ship currently off sierra leone

fighting the war against ebola, saving lives there and keeping us safe at home. will my right honorable friend join me in thanking the crew and their families for their service and their sacrifice now and over christmas of? >> here, here. >> i think my honorable friend is right, because it is often based in rfk often based there and they're doing an amazing job and they're doing an amazing job at some personal risk to themselves but i think it's essential that britain takes this leading role in sierra leone and inserts not just the hospital beds and the staff but also the training and the logistics that will be essential in turning around this crisis. it's a key part of that.

[inaudible] >> will the prime minister abandoned any further cuts to transport services in west london? >> what the honorable gentleman should know is not only are we recruiting more a&e consultants and nurses in northwest london, not only in northwood park anymore bed but the hospitals of gp led urgent care centers on site that are open 24 hours a day seven days a week. so instead of trying to frighten his constituents he should be talking about investment going into the local health service. >> mr. speaker, the prime minister won't be surprised that i will be marking world aids day on monday but we enjoy meeting should join me in encouraging people this week testing week to

come for and have a regular test? >> i think my honorable friend is not so good right. this government is pioneering the idea of free tests. is very important when you to tackle hiv/aids not just you and our country but around the world and that is why we put so much money into antiretrovirals dru drugs. [inaudible] circumstance in which you would lead in the eu referendum? >> unlike the party opposite i set out what i want to achieve which is a renegotiation and then our referendum. i think britain is better off inside a reformed european union. but have to ask him, what is it they are frightened of? we say trust the people and let the people decide. >> thank you, mr. speaker. [inaudible] delivering mail to every premises and the country and collect enough from every postbox \60{l1}s{l0}\'60{l1}s{l0} weight

is important. [inaudible] to be watered down anyway? >> i know how important the universal service obligation is, particularly in his constituency like my honorable friend that includes so many islands and committees but it's important it is maintained stay mac i'm grateful to the prime minister. i'm grateful to the prime minister and -- >> order to a parliament believes if the police and anything in free speech. i don't need the heckling. it's tedious, low-grade. the honorable gentlemen will be heard how ever long it takes. it's as simple as that. >> i am grateful to the prime minister for spend so much time

in my constituency. acting chief executive of midway hospital said this morning that what our hospital needs is a period of patients instability. does the prime minister a great? >> i agree it does need those things but it also needs the attention of the special measures that is in will bring about the cuisine is extra a&e consultants and nurses going in, 112 additional nurses, 61 more doctors but it will take time to turn her around a hospital that did have very high rates of mortality and still have challenges. the only thing i fail to understand is why he said to join the party that doesn't believe in the nhs and wants to break it up. [shouting] >> in 1971 the very first refuge in the world was set up in my

constituency. the home secretary yesterday announced a 10 million pounds to refugees across this country for much-needed investment. would my right of our friend join with me in calling for into domestic abuse right across the country? >> my honorable friend is right. we need action against domestic abuse on every front. we have passed new legislation. we have improved between to the police but krishna i think these refugees are important and that's what the announcement and we've made about separate and discrete funding are so important. >> with the prime minister said about investment in the government, and take a minute to invest and the global fund. [inaudible]

>> can ask the prime minister what people do to encourage investment in neglected diseases? >> first of all i very much agree what she said about the global fund. i think it's been an invest is to actually getting countries to make the contributions, a britain has been no slouch internet and we been a major funder of the global fund. in terms of how we tackle disease epidemics and problems, to think and problems, to think that the pacers look at the world health organization but it is the body under the u.n. about and respond and respond more rapidly. it's an organization badly in need of reform. as i've said before i think we need to look at how we pool resources we can act more quickly but part of that should also be reforming particularly the racial aspects of the w.h.o. which is not fit for purpose. >> does my right honorable friend believe that tony blair should get a global leadership award from save the children are

taking us to war unnecessarily and iraq? >> the remarkable thing about thithis award is the tone of the conference will be used to work for warden brown. [laughter] so obviously the person who gave the ward -- the award knows about peacemaking. >> in 2010 the prime minister promised to protect the front line. yet in the biggest police cuts in europe, services based on the loss of 30,000 officers, over half on the front line, and their ability to perform a statutory functions and protect affordable. does the prime minister understand the concerns being expressed in communities all over the country at the system undermined by his government of the bedrock of policing, neighborhood policing? >> i don't accept what he says because look, we have a

difficult decisions about police budgets. we because those budgets by 20% by the visiting them is doing that what we've seen is crime has fallen in this country, will you measure by the national crime survey or by the reported figures to the police. on both counts crime has come to the other thing that's happened is because the police have done such a magnificent job of reform and efficiency, the percentage of office on the frontline has gone up. >> every hour one man dies from prostate cancer in the uk, testicular cancer is the most common cancer in men aged 29-455 in uk but in an average everyday 12 and in the uk die from suicide. will the prime minister join in congratulating all the men have taken part in the november campaign to raise these men's health issues and with the government continue to fund them and support these vital health measures? >> i certainly don't my honorable friend in praising all those have taken place in november but he is supporting a

pretty magnificent specimen. my for next it looks like he's about to start hhs home movie last night it is remarkable and i'm sure in my protection team they have done incredible work and they're raising a lot of money. i'm only sorry that i can't seem to be able to join you. but the causes are important, particularly the chances that really need to raise awareness improve treatments and save lives. >> here, here. >> order. >> we will now leave the british house of commons as members move ontmoveon to other business. you have been watching prime minister question time and live wednesday's with partners in session. you can see this week's session again sunday nights at nine eastern and pacific on c-span. for more information go to c-span.org and click on series to be of a program we have entered from the british house of commons since october 1989. we invite your comments about prime minister's questions via

twitter using hashtag pmq. >> this thanksgiving week c-span is featuring interviews from retiring members of congress. watch the interviews tonight through thursday at 8 p.m. eastern spent as much of we have accomplished in 36 years and want to look back at that so much as to look forward to the next couple months. in the next couple months there's a couple things i would like to do. one is to get my defense authorization bill passed. this is an annual effort, a major effort involving large amounts of staff but i also want to finish up some work on a permanent subcommittee on investigations looking at some gimmicks which are used to avoid taxes. >> i've been a member of congress for 34 years, and to get beat, if i was in management

baseball or football team and added 34 and one, i would be in the hall of fame. it won't bother me. and it didn't bother me to get beat because i wasn't just that ongoing but i had 18 co-chairmen who are chairman of my 18 counties in my district that were supporting me and wanted me to run. and i did. >> also on thursday thanksgiving day we'll take an american history to work of various native american tribes. that the canadian eastern following "washington journal." then at 1:30 p.m. attend the groundbreaking summit avenue diplomacy center in washington with former secretaries of state. supreme court justices clarence thomas, samuel alito and sonia sotomayor at 8:30 p.m. eastern. that's this things getting week on c-span. for a complete schedule to c-span.org. a discussion about u.s.-russian relationship from national

security advisor stephen hadley and former deputy secretary of state strobe talbott talked about russian president vladimir putin's strategic ambitions in europe. and the ongoing conflict in ukraine. from the aspen institute in washington, d.c., this is an hour and 40 minutes. >> welcome everybody. ambassador, good to see. good to see all of you. on walter isaacson, the president of the aspe aspen inse and when the great joys of president of the aspen institute is that occasionally you get invited to sit in with the aspen strategy group, with my friend strobe and angela and steve and, of course, run by nick burns but the crisis with russia everyday takes another step but these are the people best adapt at dealing

with it. in fact, the aspen strategy group was started 30 years ago with really the crises in russia in mind. so without i would like to turn over to nick burns, the director of the aspen strategy group and a professor at the kennedy school at harvard. thanks for doing this. >> good afternoon, everyone. it's a great pleasure for me to welcome all of you here to the aspen institute. this is the washington ideas roundtable series, and the for sale want to do is thank michele smith and the robert h. smith family foundation for making this possible. i also want to recognize some important tests in the rupert we have four ambassadors from a letter country. with ambassador to finland, ambassador of the stone, the ambassador of latvia and ambassador of denmark.

we also three former members of congress jim moody, jim slattery and jim walsh. it's always perilous and what is to recognize special friends but we have two special friends given the topic which is the crisis with russia over ukraine. ambassador jim collins who is extraordinarily effective american ambassador to russia longtime russia specials and great friend to all of us on this panel. and ambassador steven pifer was ambassador year crane, longtime russia-ukraine specialist giunta culberson worked with steve as well at the congratulations to both of them and thank you for being you. what we wanted to do is talk about one of the major strategic challenge is in a state in 2014. president putin's invasion of crimea, the annexation of crimea by the russian duma, the consistent effort by president t putin and the russian government to destabilize eastern ukraine over the last nine months, and

the reaction by the west, by the united states, canada and europe and by the nato countries, the sanctions, the building up, the baltic countries and pulled the ring and the standoff there continues to this day. we do that based on the book that we are publishing today i think all of you have copies. for those of you on c-span, and c-span is televising this event, this is a book published by the aspen strategy group about the crisis with russia. the aspen strategy group in its 30th year met in early august in aspen, colorado, as we do every year to take on a big subject. and this year is nonpartisan group, republicans, democrats, independents, mostly american but joined by several european and asian leaders met to discuss what the west should do in response but i do commend this book to you. it contains a lead essay by

strobe talbott. i will introduce strobe in a minute for david the memorial lecture. he tried to frame this issue historical terms and in terms of devolution of russia's path since the fall of the soviet union in 1991. and contains essays by many other americans and europeans. how do we think about this crisis? what are president putin's motivations and strategic ambitions? has the west reacted significantly and effectively? would've implications for global energy? what are the implications for china and china's relationship with russia and the west? so we'll talk today about these issues by do want to commend this book today i would ask you to tweak about it, i would ask if you have an interest in it, purchase it on amazon. that helps to fund the expenses of this nonprofit organization. our leaders are brent scowcroft, which is not an introduction to this from, and joe knight.

for 30 years they have been of the opinion that americans should be able to have serious discussions about the major international challenges to us in a nonpartisan environment. that's what they have created and that's what we celebrate today. we are going to have a discussion for about the next 30 to 40 minutes with three panelists. strobe talbott, president of the brookings institution and a selection of service deputy secretary of state in the clinton administration, lifelong expert on russia, has been interested in russia since he was a very young man. and we'll ask strobe a series of questions about how he sees the crisis with russia. angela stent, to my right, professor at georgetown university, longtime soviet and russian expert has also served as the national intelligence council for the u.s. government. finally, steve hadley. steve has worked in the ford administration, the george h. w.

bush of administration and, of course, in the george w. bush administration as national security advisor. steve has dealt with the soviets and russians since the 1970s, so as a long perspective as to angel and strobe on all these issues. there's a fourth person steve vick and it was a big part of our discussions. steve knows a lot about russia. sworserved with great distinctin the george w. bush administration, now vice president of ford motor company. i want to thank steve for all the support, intellectual and otherwise to make this happen. without further ado we will have a conversation and go to races of questions to try to get to the heart of this crisis. once we finished i want to invite all of you to offer your point of view and asked the most challenging questions you can think of. let me start, perhaps strobe with you. you kicked off our aspen strategy group of four days together in colorado and try to give us a historical framework so we could understand the

motivations of president putin and the russian leadership. both the relationship with us but also important their relationship with ukraine and the other former republics of the soviet union. i wanted to ask you and i will post this in question to angel and steve, not the we've seen at the end of 2014 how shaken the confidence is is between the west and the russian leadership, and a dramatic impact it has had negative on our relationship, how serious the crisis is this and to believe we will be able to continue -- contain it? >> very serious. in three dimensions, with regard to russia itself, i think there is an all too plausible scenario whereby what we have seen, particularly over the last year but also in the run up to not just the annexation of crimea, but the virtual occupation and

pseudo-annexation of much of eastern ukraine will be a catalyst for a process over time that will greatly weaken the russian state and could even lead -- what he regards as western weakness. but the essence of his policies, both domestic and foreign, are essentially a resurrection of the policies that caused the ussr, you may all recall there was once a very large estate called the ussr, to end up on

the trashy of history. -- trash heap. that would be ironic and by the way, of the dangers outcome for the whole world. this is not to wish for something bad for russia but it's to do something bad for the world. second, there is unquestionably a crisis for the western community, the atlantic community which up until a few years ago was moving in a direction that involves involve integration of the russian federation itself as well as its neighbors into an expanded international community that would be playing by the same rules, would have certain norms in common and that would lead to, not just a peaceful 21st century but also a 21st century in which russia would be, not just have a seat at the

board of directors of the world, but would be a collaborative and cooperative power. and what we are looking at now is i think a nontrivial set of conflicts and potential conflicts, including on the perforate other than ukraine itself that could lead to armed conflict. and here i am particularly concerned about three nato member states that have been constituent republics of the ussr, namely the baltic states, even though u.s. and others in the west have never accepted their annexation under the hitler-stalin pact. and the last crisis i think is for a positive future for the process of globalization. we cannot have a style you carry

system, international system if russia is not part of it. it is in which important both in its size and its clout and its ability to be there of destructive or helpful in getting with the issues of our time. >> thank you. angelacan be to act as to the same question but ask you to expand it a little bit. you are a longtime watcher and you've written about putin about his motivations. what does he want? what is he trying to achieve strategically i this very big move into both crimea and destabilize a major state? >> the question, what does he want, but really when you listen to them and when you see what rush is doing, we know what they don't want to let me just agree with what strobe said. i think this is the worst crisis in relations with russia simply for mikhail gorbachev came to power. when you go back to putin in what he wants, this i is a

combination of probably is one of at least 22 years or 25 years of frustration of feelings of human mission. after all, we remember he was in the gdr serving as a kgb officer interest in when the war came down, seeing all that happened, coming back to the soviet union having been lost his country and feeling if one is to believe what he says, for the past 22 years russia has suffered a series of human relations. so i said a few weeks ago when he delivered his three-hour bromide against the united states in sochi, and then was also present at of the discussion with other officials. it's quite clear that the message they want to convey is that they will no longer accept the rules of world order that they claim are defined by the united states and imposed on them, do not take their interests into account. this is broader than ukraine. i think that russia, or some people in russia at least i

think the president himself believes that russia is at war with the west, that russia is behaving more like a revisionist power calling into question the post-cold war settlement and making legal arguments for what it did in ukraine by referring back to other things that happen in the past 22 years. but again saying that double standards and we need a new world order. now, i'm not sure that the russians actually know what the new world order should be but i think that you take seriously when we look to the future that i will probably be other areas where russia we believe that it can reinterpret the rules. we already see the resumption of a lot of cold war tactics in terms of harassing and roots that will be long range bomber flights to the gulf of mexico, all these kinds of tactics that look as if it's the cold war come although it's not the cold war. i think this is a broader question of how does world order

continue? and, of course, that affects the process of globalization. >> steve hadley, you were present at all or nearly all of the significant meeting the president george w. bush had over eight years with president putin. getting a sense of his worldview to agree with angel about what his motivations are, and you see the crisis that has developed? >> i would defer to strobe and angela but i think putin has moved over time. i think when he started out, he thought as he said the dissolution of the soviet union was one of the great tragedies in the 20th century but i think he meant that sincerely. i think armed on linking to power he thought there was a

much he could do about it. he had a very small economy, and not great prospects. i think we also made a pitch during the first administration to try to convince him that his legacy would be to move russia permanently into the west and to integrate it with europe where russia always should have been. we spent four years trying to find various ways to convince him that this was his calling, and his people, when i get with him, we had a strategic dialogue that i managed with my counterpart. the word we got was yes, putin understands this is his historical opportunity, but there are dark forces in russia and you have to let him do it his own way. i think as he saw an opportunity to split with us on iraq and make common cause with the german and the french as they made some smart is cool decisions and their

administration as the price of oil went up, he became stronger and decided he had a perhaps more options. i think we don't really know, one of the things we learned from georgia is that he is a real opportunistic person. he sees opportunities. he seizes them, and if he succeeds and is not resisted, his objectives grow over time. and i think that's what we face here. so where are we now? one, he's already ripped up the post cold war consensus on your. that is to say, borders would be respected, sovereignty boat be respected to force would not be used and countries could choose their own alliances. he has ripped up all of those. second, i think his objective is to keep ukraine week, divided on the hope that it is not permanently been lost by the attribute of time, after a lot of pressure in favor of the

state and in the help from the west, ukrainians maybe three, four years from now we decided to crimea's right and maybe it would be better if we moved east, not west. clearly i think that's on his agenda. the question is whether if he succeeds, at his objectives become more extensive, he's already doing a lot of things in the czech republic, slovakia and hungary to try to put divisions within the eu, to weaken the eu. i think if he does this kind of a stroke mentioned, this kind of destabilization campaign in a place like the baltic states it will be to show that article v and nader and the defense commitment doesn't anything. it isn't worth the paper it's written on, which will be a blow to the willingness of countries in europe to stand up to them. the bottom line, a big payoff for him would be if he could reestablish russian influence in

the former soviet space and in central and eastern europe comparable to what the soviet union had. this is not sending in troops and occupation. this is influence. so the states have to take into account, and to take into account, russian interest, russian desires. to me, if you asked him what is his dream, that might be it. that might be it. and that's the kind of europe that are think would be bad for europe, bad for us and ultimately bad for russia. because i think, well, it would vindicate russian nationalism and feed their ego i think is not sustainable over the long term and it takes russia away from what its real objective should be which is to become part of the 21st century. >> steve, thank you. we want to get to whether or not the west, europe, canada, north america been effective in trying

to counter putin but before we get are two questions to put on the table briefly. the first is this. i don't want to leave the witnesses, but when you encounter russians come and i have in many international conferences over the last seven or eight months, the line sometimes is you americans drove us to this but it was the expansion of nato in 1997 and 2002 when you took in 10 countries in nato, three of which had been constituent parts of the soviet union. you drove us to this. it was your aggressiveness. i don't agree with that at all, but i wonder how one should respond to the. i think i know how but we've all had this question but in this giving us about what most of us on this panel were involved in the clinton and bush administration? that poor sensitive sole putin, did we hurt his feelings too much and drive into this? >> you are looking at me. [laughter]

is passing strange that the debate over the expansion of nato would be once again in the forefront of controversy, not just between is a passionate between those of us in the west which by the way is a geographical term that we thought was expanding to include many in the east, but it's also a point of controversy here in the u.s., particularly among those of us who are either, you can call us the wonky or the foreign policy elite. the original rationale for expanding nato to include countries who had either been released from the prison house of nations either reformist government of gorbachev, or were

released from the prison house of nations which was the u.s. as our, not by some plot from the west but by reformist leaders driven by public opinion inside the ussr, that would end of my vacation of the world between the free world and the communist world, and there could be institutions that would, among other things, provide security, including in partnership with former republics of the ussr and former members of the warsaw pact. ..