so i believe that it was those judeo-christian principles that lead us to the pinnacle of the world into a much higher pinnacle than anybody else that ever experienced. >> guest: ..

a fair deal it is wall street's fault. i think you could make an argument they are both right in some ways there is this and that's why i've wondered if some of this boils over into more of a problem than people go outside of the party structures. >> guest: after seeing what happened -- >> host: you want to reform what you want to do. >> guest: but i also would like to see a situation where we deemphasize. i just don't think -- it's nice to have -- some of them that was the big argument. >> guest: we ought to be doing things that work for all of us. one of the things that offends me to no end is when we take our constitution and say i'm going to enforce this particular this

part and this group gets an exception but this one doesn't. >> host: i can't even tell you how that makes me feel. what but we ask that the constitution. are you strict and frankly they sold the various court cases go this way. the letter of the law, the constitution is that the letter when you decide whether something is constitutional. >> guest: i think it is the latter and i will tell you why. it's clearly 28th responsibility of the executive branch, the legislative branch and the judicial branch, so all other matters are being referred to in the state. so i mean, if you just knew that it could tell you a great deal about what we should and should not be doing.

>> host: you seem to be pro- civil union? at that point what is the difference? >> guest: i said any two adults regardless of their orientation should have the right to bind themselves in some type of legal manner so that they have property rights, visitation rights, whatever. >> host: to many people that is a but is a distinction, not a difference. >> guest: i think that marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman and it has been for thousands of years. my problem is if we start changing it for one group by which do not change it for the next group and where would you draw the line and? what you say we are going to change it this one time how is that going to go over. >> host: marijuana. >> guest: we have multiple studies that demonstrate that it

has a very deleterious effect on the developing brain and the brain develops in the late 20s, therefore unless you don't tv the medical evidence why would we even be having that discussion. >> host: what is worse, alcohol or marijuana ex- >> guest: certainly if you use a great deal of alcohol that can be destructive also. >> host: arguably more harmful? >> guest: it has the potential to be but i'm not sure any of those things should be supplied to the developing brain. >> host: doctor ben carson, this is -- i enjoyed it and i hope people get an idea of who you are. one nation. your wife make sure you you've got the book done. is it that a book that she's been on or the bookseller's?

>> guest: thank you. >> that was after words, signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public public policymakers and others familiar with their material. "after words" airs every weekend on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" in the book tv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. >> james patterson appeared at a meeting of the new york city principals to talk about tools they could use to inspire non- readers and reluctant readers in

their schools. mr. patterson donated 45,000 copies of his book middle school the worst years of my life to 300 middle schools in the new york city public school system as part of the effort. this is about 50 minutes. >> he's coming in the door and somebody asked me if i was james patterson. i thought about it for a second. then he said why, does he know you money? this puts a new spin on coming to the principals office except you're at my office today and i came here -- this is just another way of looking at things, to help you save lives, and as carmen said, to turn everybody into even more of a reading missionary, not listeners. i mean, we are going to listen

and i'm going to check the chat but they are doers and that is a hard thing in life because because if we listened we think it's enough that it's nothing. and i sort of dedicated what we are here doing and i talked a little bit more about that. and as principals, you are in a position to do perfect things. you're definitely in the position to save lives. and sometimes you don't realize that they taught special classes in westchester for 30 years or so and i met a young guy who'd been in his class and i mentioned this guy to him and he said he was just impossible. but from this point of view he said mr. mahoney saved my life. sometimes you don't hear that because they grow up and get a

little older but you have to be me that's what you're going to do and in terms of reading, better reading produces better thinkers because they are exposed to more things. ultimately, better citizens, better spouses which is an important. and for god for the nfl. and it's not an nfl issue. it's an american issue. mothers and fathers come from the better reading. and although one piece, the bigger they have the better thinkers they become but even more important are the kids who are at risk and they don't become competent readers. if they become competent readers because if they are not

competent reading is the foundation of everything. we know that but we don't live it. if you cannot read competently you can do science, history, english, you probably aren't going to be able to get a job worth will be hard for you. chances in life are great. and you know, we all know this on a personal level that the world is getting tougher. and it seems to me the world is getting meaner. now of course, you all kind of no -- we all kind of know that but we don't act on it as much as we should. here are a few things you don't know. my mother was a teacher for 45 years. newburgh new york contact outcomes of school, tough place to grow up, still is. i was a high school

valedictorian, i got 780 on my sats and reading. i have a scholarship to vanderbilt graduate fellow scholarship. but i was a reluctant reader. i did read about a million comic books as a kid. that is kind of how i learned to read and that's okay up until the point. then when i was around 19 i started working my way through college at a mental hospital just outside of cambridge massachusetts. i've worked a lot of times the 11 to seven shift and most nights there wasn't a lot to do. the nights there was a lot to do if was a little hairy. but on the other night i started reading like a mad person and i read a john steinbeck and john

irving and i can't read my own handwriting. that is just some. the important thing is i was reading what i wanted to read. i was heavy stuff but that's what i wanted to read. i wanted to read difficult plays and poetry and writers and so that is how i fell in love with reading because up until that point, i wasn't a big reader. i was a decent reader but somehow in grade school and high school it just didn't turn out for me. in those days in the typical english class you can read the first 40 pages and you will be tested tomorrow. read middlemarch, they never

asked us to read that. that's when i would have wanted to read. after cow and the result was -- obviously we have to go through this thing things that help another way and others i didn't get turned on to reading or writing. let me go back to shakespeare for just a second. when i'm growing up we are having to read hamlet but we are not turned on to it and in high school that high school right but i didn't have everybody stand up on their seats and said we are going to read a little bit from hamlet by want you to understand what the situation is. first of all everybody was going to the theater. that wasn't happening anywhere else in the world. but for some reason, fear has

really caught on in london. there were all of the spheres that were burned down every year because they were made out of wood but there were always and morgan have the veto have to put the patient was. but they were nuts. they were loud and noisy and there was a lot of drinking and other stuff going on. so the actors had to get the attention of people. so that's why they were standing up on their seats. and now i want you to read at the top of your voice because you have to get attention. they don't like that because after about five minutes of the kids screaming at the top of their voices they were beginning to get it a little bit. a little frame of reference. i have not too much but just enough that you understand the kind of scenario was. i covered the words with all of these praises and i said to

shakespeare made up all of this shit -- i didn't say that. [laughter] all of these praises, he just made it up. he made up of these other words. but suddenly the kids are interested as opposed to see will be tested. that doesn't make it. or the kind of shakespeare is important and you must love him. says who. ie gets to come to that conclusion. you can help me. soon i have a 16-year-old. when jack was five he wrote his first novel illustrated the butterfly catcher but gets on the plane and he gets on the boat out travels, jack loves

trains, catches the butterfly. the train stops he gets off the train, another gets off the train and they go the other way. that is the butterfly catcher. beginning, middle, great end. the kid has it all. but he wasn't a big reader when he was younger. and the summer when he was eight, we read that he had to read every day. and it's cruel i know, inhumane, old school. he didn't have to mow the lawn. but he had to read every day 40 minutes, whatever. longer than that if he wanted to. but the key was soon i went out and helped him find books that we knew he would like or we thought that there is a good was a good chance he would like them and to some extent, obviously it isn't going to work for

everybody but that is what parents need to do. it's what grandparents need to do. at my house my grandmother was for me. they get to some of us at the school they say you've got to do this. this is the big thing for the lightbulb go off for a lot of parents. schools and the jobs define. it's the parents job. your job, not my job. i'm going to help them along the that's your job. most parents, not all but most wouldn't send their kids into the world with a handicap that you could do something about. and sending your kids out into the world, kids are not competent readers when you can do something about it is like breaking their life and sending them out into the world. it's a dumb thing to do.

i'm not saying that's how you have have to say it because you will get fired. and nobody can fire me. parents need to think about stuff in a way that wakes them up because there is a reason why the zombie things are so popular because we are kind of zombies around. it's just they are not thinking about stuff. people are not helping them to think about. you've got to take care of your kids and do a better job. and as i said, i know that this isn't going to work in a lot of situations, but they will work in many situations. so what we did is we did research on books and then we tried to find books we thought jack would love. and at the library they are free so there isn't really an excuse. at the library they are great or in some cases they can go to the local bookstore if they have the

money. we went looking for books that we thought they would love and that's important because kids say the number one reason they don't read morris because they can't find books that they like to read. and then once again come you can help. i have a site and it's very useful you can make a judgment. there are five or 600 bucks. you can go on to the school library and if they have when they can go on and you can find a lot of books that will turn kids on. it's not about my books, it's about people's books. it is a good site and once again you can make a judgment in about five minutes of whether you try to use them. so, the books that we found for jack included the first percy jackson which he liked a lot.

a book in the warrior series, one of my maximum, we didn't actually read moby dick when he was eight. but his response initially was do i have to and we told him yes unless you want to live in the garage. and we told him him recently we said we read in our house. we read in our house. and that is a sentenced to hang over the front door of every school in the city. we read in this school. that is something that you can put in. i've heard some of them but you don't even see them. we read in our school. big banner. that's cool. that's something they can put on a bumper sticker of their car right above the my student is an honor student which is fine.

shea stadium, new york reads, yankee stadium, empire state, new york reads. we can get the new yorker reading a lot more than they do if we think big and we don't just want the problem. just that notion we read in our house. let me hear it. we read in our house. yes. i don't believe you but yes. some of you probably do but it is by the following summer he was a pretty big reader so that's where it can go in some cases but even more important are these kids who are in trouble if we can get them to be

competent readers because if they are not how well they read science or history it is just too hard. and right when they say that it's too hard, because it is. and this notion that the more you read the better it will become. it is just so simple. and the other thing that's important reading doesn't have to be work. it should be fun. i had this idea we filmed a pilot it's about the joy of the art. it's a very comical but it's about the joy of visualizing and that's the important thing because it's got to be presented

as a joyful thing. let's legalize reading in this city. sometimes i give talks in schools. you better now. how come? we play a lot. the same with reading. you read a lot and get better at it. they talk about getting kids up in front of the school once in their time. every assembly put them up there. it's great to be difficult. good to be difficult. make it easy for them to do. i ran an advertising agency and i was very shy about standing up for people. i did it a lot and i got better at it. the same with kids. if you step up in stood up in front of the assembly of thousand times, you would get a little bit more comfortable.

he will always be a little nervous, but if you've done it a lot you get better at it. here is a scary fact. there are millions of kids in this country and in new york city who have never read a single book that they love. we give away books in our county in florida and would have evolved are both clubs that really work well. i did the same thing at vanderbilt. we go out into nashville and every saturday and all summer if ultimately goes through a and what happens is if the school was involved in the principle is involved in to get the kids involved, now they have to be cool books. nothing against middlemarch but the have to be books to kids will read and talk about and in

florida to kids that can't be deleted or reading books like this. they wouldn't even pick up a book this big. in one of the towns we work on its the most violent small-town america and it's worked there. this is a town with 45% unemployment. it's pretty terrific. and reading scores go up. even scarier is the fact that in some states the officials plan construction based on third and fourth grade reading levels which is really sad and it's dragging the country down into that kind of thing. if this is the greatest city in the world, if this is -- i'm not

saying that it isn't but if it is why are we producing so many that can't read and how can that be the greatest in the world? that has to be one of the criteria when we are voting with say berlin, stockholm, new york, how are they doing on reading. somebody was telling me what they are allowing $6 for kids for library books is that what it is, something like that? kids need to read because there is nowhere not on tv or in the movies, not newspapers where kids can meet so many different kinds of people and learned their different stories and begin to understand who they are, their diversity and accept these people are and how they live as they can and books. they are full of diversity and

presented in compelling ways. stories, you know, the common core has to be stories in my opinion. my career begins like this. i'm in a mental hospital outside of cambridge and i'm working my way through college. i was an aide, not a patient. he wrote to fire and rain and sweet baby james' of the pilot checked in regularly when i was working there. ray charles used to have to check and. he had been convicted with heroin possession and usage, whatever. end of the deal is anytime we had to check into this hospital so that was great.

and it was a perfect story that pretty much every day i remember one time i came in and one of my best friends was in charge and the nurses station they were putting plexiglass windows all around so they could see the hallways and i said what's with the plexiglass. she pointed down the hallway and there was this kid on the specials which meant it had to be within arms length and as we were watching he takes often a dead run and gets to about 8 feet from the nurses station, goes first because he'd already taken out four of the windows over the weekend that why they put in the plexiglass windows. he gets knocked out for about ten seconds and says who the hell puts those in you did.

i was reading a lot and i said i have to start writing this stuff down. i must have written about 100,000 short stories. and malcolm gladwell was writing this book about it taking like 10,000 hours to get decent at anything. i remembered the constructive criticism came when i was an undergraduate and i was told you right okay but stay away from fiction which was probably terrific advice. but of course given that encouragement i went and sat down and wrote another novel. 31 publishers turned it down. some was extreme prejudice which is a cool story to tell kids that kind of thing. but the good part was the book was published and then it's one the best first mystery of the year the same book that got turned down by 31 publishers. i keep a fire with the names file with the names of the editors that rejected the

manuscript. sometimes they would send me books and i'm a nice guy. i was 26-years-old and life was pretty darn good. but here's the catch. my first best seller didn't come for another 15 years. and i remember i was living in new york and i picked up "the new york times" book review and it was number six on the times and i said this must be a misprint because my folks don't get on "the new york times" bestsellers. and what we will do is go in and count the books. there used to be 12. there used to be like 15 and now there's ten so maybe this is accurate about "the new york times" list and the other thing that we will do is if we are in the store and the airports as you airport says you pick up the book and we will watch you, if you buy the book it makes the

day. even now it makes my day. if you put the book back it breaks our heart. so why am i meant the bookstore this woman picks up the book along came a spider. she's looking through it and she puts it under her arm and she's walking down the i/o and aisle and i'm like this is the best. i watched somebody physically buy my book. then she stole it. i couldn't believe it. i thought was is that count as a sale? sometime the next year i went where you just kind of show up at a bookstore. they were like mike mr. patterson you are one of our favorites this is so cool. we were shaking hands and slapping high fives and so we must have a 500 books for you to sign. we get to the back and in these

long tables filled with these novels so i signed them. [laughter] i recall i made the mistake of answering. they had these press for every movie. you write a book and we have the press here but you write a book forget about it, the dumbest movie in the world and i swear to god it is a room this big so i go out there for a long came a spider and paramount says we better let jim see the movie because the press is going to ask him whether he likes it or not. so i'm watching this from a book that i wrote and i watched the first scene and the second scene and morgan freeman has to ship in a bottle and i'm going that wasn't into the ether that seems

boring to me. what do i know. then there is a woman that comes in and i'm saying who the hell is that? it's not his grandmother. so i see more than a little later and i said who is the woman in the second scene of the movie because she never comes back. he said that his sister. i said i didn't know alex had a sister. [laughter] we were on the set of along came a spider committed and get the chance to watch the movie being shot. don't do it. unbelievably boring. but that night we went out to dinner with morgan freeman and the producers. if you get a chance to do that, do it. it's kind of fun. and when the meal was done, up came the senator at the time but now he does commercials for old people like me and clint

eastwood and everybody in the restaurant is staring because among other things they were over 6-foot three. and he comes up for an autograph, my autograph and he looks at him and says i need a hit movie bad. what happened here for the last five minutes i told you stories and you laughed and you were engaged and that's why once again the stories are so important in getting the kids to read stories. you will read about the scientists who say what turned them on initially for science fiction. it woke them up. i'm going to invent stuff. so, with carmen is saying is this sense is true.

kids do not log off as much. but when someone is telling them a story, they don't -- you know, if you can get to them books or short stories it's great, but unfortunately we don't pay as much attention to them, that is probably something for the new yorker to look at in terms of getting back the stories because kids can read a ten, 15, 20 page story and that they can handle that and they are still reading. but once again at the core of the common core to me is stories now, my best story in my opinion are the stories i write for kids i don't exactly know why. and i write a lot of them for these young adults, middle school, the worst years of my life which so many got that book. there are a lot of middle school books.

and i'm probably a little crazy to be doing as much as i do but i'm here and i'm writing and i love writing for the kids. one request is if you haven't read one of the books, just give it a peek yourselves. i love that really. of course you would like the book go out of the system and that is so cool. that is a good chancellor. and i also love that when she gets up there is a human being. not pr. nothing against pr flack. but she's up there as a human, and that's terrific. so you know, consider reading some of it or better yet get some of your kids reading them. and i don't need the money that the books but the books that i

read it to get kids reading and that's the important thing because in fact that's why i get into it initially. my editor said it's going to get kids turning the pages and that's part of it. they will get kids thinking and get kids talking about books which is important. the maximum ride, two of my series are about taking responsibility for their own lives. maximum these kids have wings and they band together and they have to take responsibility for one another because you're being chased. and that's important. but they have to actually take responsibility for one another. same thing. kids have to take responsibility for their own lives because their parents disappear. and suddenly they are in that situation and i think that is

particularly useful for some of the kids in new new york to have to really take responsibility for their lives at a very early age is. and the other thing of treasure hunters is by the end of the series, the kids that read those books were taken around the world which is kind of cool. we've gone through the caribbean we are in africa for the second. third but we are going to china and europe. they can read the story and also learn about the world and tie into history. i have a book coming out in november, december, house of robots and it's about a kid who, two kids, boy and girl come into their mother is this inventor who has all these crazy robots all over the house and it's very funny and it's actually kind of a tender story but also gets kids into science because they are kind of interested in robots and robotics and things like that.

so, it's good stuff. i want to repeat myself just one time on this notion. these parents when they came in, not the school's job to find books for your kids, figure out your own system. if we're going to go to the movie as a family coming over to the library for an hour. >> speaking of libraries, those of you that have the libraries in the schools, this is like the best class trip of the year, the class trip to the school library. what a crazy idea. we are going. we are all going to the school library and we will spend people spend half an hour at the school library and somebody's going to tell you the kind of books that

are there and whatever the rules are and they get fun obviously. but that's a very inexpensive school trip that may be the best that they take all year. what else? this kind of eternal truth i will call it which is one of the best if not the best to get kids reading is to give them books or a sign signed them books or find books for them and when they get done they say i wouldn't mind reading another book. i have a kid that i visit -- it is a long story but i visit him in prison. he will be there the rest of his life. in going to the present, one of the things that is stunning, and he is -- it's full of african-american kids that will be there for a long time companies are kids that would never read anything. they are big readers and good

readers and that's really one of the few entertainments that they have. that's not how we want them to discover reading. i want to find out about how cool reading is in prison. freedom of choice is the key to getting kids motivated and excited about reading and once again, whatever. he will draw your own conclusions about what i see is this common sports statistic all good, especially middle school and elementary school as long as they are reading because when they are reading they are practicing and this is good. reading muscles are getting exercise. should they read on tablets? sure. if the families can afford them. we reading about, definitely. try not to tell a kid a book is too hard, great expectations.

some schools are really on top of this reading and some not so much. but the thing of it is we have to be vegan miracles, we really do. in the last couple of years in houston, they turned around the 20 worst schools in the city and these are schools that were going to shutter the next year. they totally turned the schools around. miracles can happen. as i said i grew up in newburgh, murder capital of the state. my father grew up in a courthouse and his mother was a child when which meant she got to room with my father and she cleaned the toilets. that was her field. maybe that is why i am a doer coming from where i came from. i'm trying to write books kids

will devour and ask for another book to read. there are some kind of cool -- into this whole idea of sharing best practices is so key and some people just won't do it. i don't know why. when i got posted a big job in advertising i just went around to every one of the officers inside what do you do that work and nobody knows. i want to know. i don't care whether i invented it for somebody else. if it is equal idea. there are some terrific models around the country. kids schools in washington, really cool. they require kids to read 20 books. i know it is a specialized thing that they have to learn to read 20 and they have to carry the puck around at all times. i know you can't all do that, but the sun prairie schools in wisconsin, they stopped buying textbooks and used the money to buy children's trade book's. reading in schools went up

dramatically because the kids wanted to read. i know this library in texas, once again you figure out what is going to work in your school but in this school she started this for fourth and fifth grade boys called brothers and they are reading bullets for life and it's disgusting and we hate it but they read. if you thought i'm going to write a book about the boys i've been thinking this the past couple of weeks and they are obviously the biggest reluctant readers and i think one of the things we have to bear in mind is that we have to accept the extent that they are a little squirmy. they need to stand up in their seats a lot and that is with respect to reading into school in general and somehow we have to figure out ways to praise

them. you read the exit sign. good play. we just have to figure out ways because a lot of ways are getting beat up, they feel that they are stupid and behind an angry because they know they are not stupid but eventually they will believe they are. they will get angry and give up and it can be a little irritating. they don't sit there like this that but somehow we have to figure out a way to get to them. they need to feel squishy inside about reading graphic novels and comics and joke books and general information stuff. there is this site guys read.com and it has categories like robots and how to build stuff in outer space but with aliens and at least one explosion. at any rate, let me just tell

you one other story if i can find it. one other thing, this whole co-author thing people think he co-authors a lot of books. here's my notion on co-authoring just to sort of get a perspective on it both gilbert and sullivan co-authored. roger and hammerstein co-authors , simon and garfunkel, co-authors, lennon and mccartney, co-authors, so no big thing. but here's a story that i just wanted to end with. it's about doing stuff. i'm really big on doing stuff so i do a lot of stuff. i give away gave away books in chicago and i think the last three years we've given away

800,000 books to the schools. we have 400 scholarships at 24 universities with teachers which is probably more than general motors has that we do stuff and this is the story about doing stuff that was important in the san francisco chronicle and what happened was they got tangled up in all sorts of these fishing lines and literally wound up with hundreds of pounds of these traps all around their torso etc. and they brought in a rescue team and eventually they gave up hope as we do sometimes. nothing we can do it all must die then somebody says no we are going to go out and do something differently. what happened is it for now for almost a whole day.

that's how we fix stuff, we cut the rope. and they eventually created the whale which is pretty amazing and when the whale was free, she didn't go out to see or take off like. she swam around her rescuers in these kind of joyous circles. i'm putting a little interpretation on it but then she came back to every single one of these helpers and she nudged and pushed them presumably as some kind of a thank you or whatever you want to call it into the rescuers said it was the most incredibly beautiful experience of their lives. many of the rescuers said they would never be the same after that experience. that's why i'm here. and that's why you're here and in your schools and most of your teachers are there because we

say to kids, and sometimes we don't even know it kind of the greatest experience. you are saving whales everyday and i know there's a lot of frustration. my mother did it for 45 years but that's what you do. i love what you do. we are going to try to help in some way. we may need to help the school libraries. that will be something that we are going to look at for next year. what do you want to do committee wanted to q-and-a clicks five minutes of questions and answers. okay. [applause] i hope i wasn't being arrogant there because i'm just throwing shit out. i'm not suggesting that i have any answers.

in terms of writing and i thinking of writing a little lower reading level so that some of them will be able to keep up, the answer is yes and actually in addition to the book that i'm thinking about, we have a book coming out next year called public school superhero and what happened was in going around to some of the schools in florida that were primarily african-american and some hispanic there were no books about them. they will print a thousand

copies but they can't really talk about it because it's one copy of the book. it's going to get a bigger distributions of this is about an inner-city kid and to me that is the hard part. and yes it is written a little simpler but i wanted to write a book with a hero and that is an interesting thing of itself. i remember i was at a reading in washington after the second book came out and the audience was about 7% african-american and so we would just check and when i

sat down to do autographs this one woman looked down and said rrw alex cross and the woman behind her went. >> i am in the same boat. that being said i wonder what your thoughts are about the comic books in the classroom and the independent libraries. >> they have to figure out their own thing in the schools i guess. and to me, it is just practice especially in the laundry and especially the beginning of middle school and you were just practicing. and you read 100 comic books you will be a better reader. unfortunately there are not a lot of comic books around.

>> [inaudible] [inaudible] the issue is about libraries but no books. >> that's something we will talk about if we can get other people to help that in terms of shelving the books coming yes.

alphabetical order. >> you talk about building readers that love reading but we also want to -- can you talk about your writing process? [laughter] >> in addition to building readers, building writers. once again it's just practice. i love the idea of getting kids up there and getting comfortable with getting up there a live even if it is trust two sentences. tell me what's different about what it was like before you came here. it's practice, it's kids coming

in every morning or just even the typical thing a kid comes home, how was your day? why did you say good or you can just say i don't know. okay. what could you do i could play soccer or rob a liquor store. it's teaching kids to think beyond the one word response but making a habit of it. it's all habits. i do that it every single day seven days a week. same thing here. you can't do writing for the week like writing every day for ten minutes, five minutes, two

sentences, one sentence from a right-wing one sentence. get it up up to two sentences eventually than three sentences. it's just a habit. >> you mentioned bringing to light new voices. [inaudible] >> i didn't say any of that. you made that up but i'm okay with it. [laughter] [inaudible] >> that is a good question but no i haven't. the question is am i trying to co-author with new voices. i have to find people i'm really comfortable with because otherwise i haven't really had a

failure, have i? maybe one or two. it's going to be like a 400 page book. i think it is a good thought. do you want to co-author? are you ready? on more and then you can get serious about stuff. >> [inaudible] >> digital reading. s., amazon has taken a long other world. they are growing. one, kids like screens so that the positive thing. a lot of kids can't afford screens, so that's another problem. i don't know how we deal with it right now but he actually there will probably come a time that they will be extremely

inexpensive. they seem to be fine. now there are a few studies likely that they might not remember as much. so there may be some mutations. we are all brought up on paper books. it doesn't really matter. the world is going that way. so it will be a while. thank you very much.

>> ..

mr. kissinger spoke at the free library of philadelphia for about an hour. >> it has been said that no one can lay claim to so much influence in the shaping of foreign policy over the past 50 years as secretary henry kissinger. a vital president of international politics since the 1950s and named one of the foreign holocene magazines top 100 global thinkers, dr. dr. kissinger served as the

56th the 56 secretary of state under president nixon and ford ended for national security security adviser for six years. during that time, he pioneered the policy of détente with the soviet union, workers who did the opening relationships with china and successfully negotiated the paris peace accord, which accomplish the withdrawal of american forces from vietnam for which he won the nobel peace prize in 1973 and parenthetically the gratitude of this young lieutenant in the united states army. thank you, mr. secretary. countless other honors in the presidential medal of freedom, medal of liberty and the national book award for history for the first volume of his memoirs, the white house years. his new book, "world order" is

issued and comprehensive analysis of building international order in a world of differing is, violent conflict, burgeoning technology and ideological extremism. and it, you will learn about the westphalian peace and be led on a fascinating exploration of european balance of power from charlemagne to the present time. islam in the middle east, the u.s. interbrand, more publicity of asia and the continuing development of u.s. policy. in my business, the questions are often more import than the answers. secretary kissinger has some brilliant ones such as what do we seek to prevent them matter how it happens and even if we have to do it alone. what do we seek to achieve even if not supported by anyone. why should we not engage in an

most importantly what is the value we seek to advance you will be intrigued and challenged by this book. i can't finish when one of secretary kissinger's least known but if trans-native reporter most wonderful honors of 1976 he was made the first honorary member of the harlem globetrotters. [laughter] mr. kissinger -- dr. kissinger will be interviewed this evening by jeff greenfield, an acclaimed television commentator and author in his own right who lectured here at last year about his book, if kennedy lived. it is an honor and privilege to have both of them here with us and i am only sorry they do

wasn't able to arrange a plane of sweet georgia brown. but please join me in welcoming henry kissinger and jeff greenfield to the free library of philadelphia. [applause] >> when henry kissinger was named secretary of state, the press asked him, what shall we call you? professor and your kissinger, dr. kissinger, secretary kissinger. he said no, your excellency will do. [laughter] this is not my plan for tonight. this book, "world order" covers roughly 400 years of diplomatic geopolitical and military history and 45 continents. we have a little less than an

hour. when we finish shooting with the whole book, we'll talk about tax policy. but what i want to do is take dr. kissinger, what you have written in c. its application today. anybody looking at the headlines would look at your book and say what world order? the westphalian peace that you talk about where states respect each other's territorial integrity, balance each other out, till interfere, you look at isil, the united states bombing in syria to stop isil, which helps stop with the area and dictator we want now. you have afghanistan which he described really less as a country than a group of tribes essential mode of power is resentment and vengeance. can you look at the world today and actually say cat, something

like a world order is neither possible or is that an old concept that is simply not applicable today? >> well, first of all, i agree with you that there is no world order today. perhaps if i tell you what induced me to write the book, i was having dinner with a friend, professor at 75. and i was discussing various ideas i had for writing a book. most of which have to do with historical episodes of personalities. and he said, you have written a lot of history. why don't you write something up

out what concerns you most at the moment quite and what concerns me most at the moment is the absinthe of world order, the fact that for the first time in history, different regions of the world interacting with each other in the classical. , the roman empire in the cheney said player existed without any significant knowledge and acted without any reference to what the others were doing. so the reality of the president. is that different societies with different histories are now part of a global system because they

don't have an agreed concept of world order. so i began with the westphalian peace for two reasons. because that is the only formal system of world order that had been devised and because there was the dominant than in europe and because the europeans as part of the imperialists and around the world as a concept, that there was a unique aspect to the european experience. in most -- and every other part of the world, whatever order existed was part of an empire.

in china, the idea didn't exist and in an islamic world, it didn't exist in that sense. europe is the only society where the sovereignty of states in the balance of their actions with each other was believed to produce in the national order. so that is what i started with and attempted to apply with many circumstances. this was not a cookbook you can read to say what the national order will be. it is an attempt to tell you, this is what we are up against now. this is a challenge we have an here are some ways of looking at

it. but it does not say that i know what all of these conflicts and these ambiguities, some of which you described will be. >> host: but i am getting at is the westphalian peace which is 1648 after 30 years war. either way, those of you who like that history repeat itself, you remember the site over the pairs peace corps table. the sensibilities of the various diplomats were such that they had analyst number of doors so everybody could enter by the same imports and door. i believe he described they had to walk -- >> the same moment. >> says some things don't change. i think the more relevant part though is is it folly to look at a 360-year-old set of

conferences involved in one small part of the globe and think that it somehow has applicability to what we need in the 21st century where you have an islamist party that to rid the world you may not have the chinese empire, but china reaching across the globe for resources. in international banking system that knows no national borders. the question in the stage for me is, is that a model we are thinking of as relevant? >> the reason i started with the westphalian system is europe 30 years war is very similar to what is now going on in the middle east of every faction fighting, and some of them using

their religious convictions for geopolitical purposes. at the end of the period, which -- and which may be a third the population of central europe was killed with conventional weapons so that is a massive effort. the bandleaders i number principles. the basic unit of international relations should be the state. the countries would not intervene in the domestic affairs and the borders that

international affairs begin by attempt team to have an impact on other societies and that some kind of international order and the diplomats should be called into existence as permits ambassadors in each other's country has never happened before. and so, the interesting thing is none of the people were overwhelming statements, but out of a suffering, they instilled a number of them supposed, which then puts several hundred years governed european relations brought by the europeans and iis throughout the world now some of

them still apply a consequence, namely they debated unit of international relations of the state and if you conduct foreign policy in a purely ideological basis and try to undermine the state, but then the structure of the restraint that could be created disappears. now of course, so nonintervention, since the principles of conduct, these were beautiful instruments. the dilemma of the president. is that several things are happening simultaneously. the state is in mourning parts

of the world and nonstate or zara. that have power. secondly, the economic organization of the world and the political organization of the world are not comfortable in a mark. the economic organization attends to achieve globalization with global trends borders. so there are very many profound challenges today. what i am attempting to do in the book is say here is where this idea of order is dead.

sooner or later, we will calm to some concept of order because without it coming there will be no principles to govern conduct and there will be no restraint on the exercise of power. now how we get there, that is the big challenge because for us in america, we have believed that our principles are the universal principles that everybody must accept. i as an individual believes that there are universal principles. they how to relate to other societies, that is when a the great. >> but as you point out in your vote, there are some forces that reject fundamentally the premise you have just outlined.

the one you point to what most alarm is islamism and particularly as the arabian folks in charge pratt is. if i read your book correctly, the people who really run around, does the aircraft, how many do not believe islam is destined to rule the world. that is the only legitimate way. the idea of saying if i read her book right, you won't interfere here. we want intervened there. that is at a basic level on islamic. i mean, does not pose a rather difficult challenge? >> at is a big internal debate that is now going on inside iraq. the point i am making, at this moment in its own history.

the nationstate. pursuing normal or traditional nationstate, which is more or less done what they did for 100 years second model they have them as his southern empire because for a great of this history, iran was a great empire extending from the borders of what is today india well into what we today call the middle east and extending to the edge of africa.

into it, you have correctly described and which is the view of the theocracy, which is the islamic faces the governing guide -- should be the governing guide the arabian poverty and therefore the united states is in per minute and the view i expressed here and iran has to make the choice. it has to make any perceptible choice. which of these three models that is following. another thing about are ran, of

all of the countries, he ran -- iran is the only one that did not give up its language. nor is culture and that it maintained the iranian culture and language. so there is always a distinct feeling about something better. throughout the end of november, we are going to be confronted. we as a country at the end of the culmination of the negotiations of the nuclear weapons. they will have to be judged by one assassinate about what the

ultimate purpose of the ukrainian government is. >> so here is an argument i have heard about the optimistic way to look at iran. over time, leaders and countries that once seemed really ominously threatening changed. you mention in your book the forgotten part of history, in 1957 mosque to moscow. he makes the speech in which he says you know, this fear about nuclear war, we could lose several hundred million people. if we wind up with a communist people, so be it. i gather people were unimpressed by this argument. so 14 years later, you're in beijing and didn't change. the question is when you hear the ukrainians talk as they do, is it useful to point to an example like the evolution of china, but that long-time enemy

is now her peace with piece with each other, the deep within northern ireland, 800 years of violence at least in the east. should we take those examples and say all right, let's see what happens in iran. maybe they will evolve out of their current series and come to a more westphalian view of the world. >> e-mail, westphalian section was only to describe how it came to be. no serious person thinks that you can apply exactly the same principles. what you can apply this to add to question other unit out of touch with each other and by what method of each other and

how they communicate with each other and what is it they should try to achieve together. now it is of course possible this evolution occurs. but it is not possible but as an american leader you would say because everything he, why don't we just set back and wanted the ball and will see what happen. with respect to some issues, in the case of china, the transformation of the conduct of china, which started out by now to be built as a model of

revolution for the rest of the world, this pattern continued until there was an eye practical ideological soviet union caused the soviet union to move 42 divisions to the chinese order for them bad, mal looked at this as a practical problem of state, how do i protect my state against those in the united states was the only available partner. i don't know whether i put this in the book or not. the persistence of traditional ways of thinking, is shown by

this episode. mix in after the first day in office have included an indictment be made to bring china into the international system. >> as i recall you wrote a piece in foreign affairs magazine called asia after vietnam. it was a hint in the midst. >> absolutely. china was in the middle of the cultural revolution, so it was very hard to know to get a dialogue started. but i want to mention the cia

wrote about what they might do. they published a report that is now available. they published a report in early july 1871 when i was on my way to china, which they didn't know, which said -- which listed all the arguments i just made of why china should look to the united states. but they concluded with saying this cannot happen. so when i was away say today we know it could not have happened so fast. >> that is reassuring the cia hasn't changed all that touch.

[laughter] >> well, it was understandable. at any rate, then china and the united states had to deal with each other as great powers. and if you read and they're all available now, the early conversations by my trip to china, we were talking like two college professors, discussing abstract concepts of international relations. we didn't go through any of the technical issues that divided as. why? has both the left decided independently but at this point

the most important quality to be achieved what can we understand the other side so as we go into this world of three countries, china, russia and the united states, cooperating with each other. so we rebuilding a kind of international system. and i would say it was about three years before we really got the day today. >> you know, so many areas to cover in so little time. he was one of the areas i want to say that the critical step was to understand what the other person -- how the other person was thinking. it's a point that was made during the cuban missile crisis,

but against the impulses of some of his advisers, he kept trying to put himself in khrushchev's shoes. so the question that this raise those is it seems to me, the united states biggest missteps, always a part of foreign policy, have come from precisely the fact we haven't understood the terrain of the people in which we were trying to act. most recently, i'm not trying to be present because i can think of both parties. the decision to go into iraq, which from your point of view you say nice things about bush, but it seems pretty clear to me that you regard the notion we would go into iraq, build a democracy, spread through the middle east like a virtual circle as kind of really naïve if not worse.

>> by satellite about roche. he did me the honor of inviting me to discuss long-range international affairs within fairly early in his second term. so i developed a personal affection for him and i was impressed by his concerns. and they are a son criticisms whenever chordate, but i normally did not do in the other chapters. but anyway, now, about the decision to go into europe, from

a security point of view, after the united states had been attacked by terrorists in the middle east, it was quite rational for the president of the united states to focus on a country that he genuinely believed was building nuclear weapons. it turned out to be wrong, but it is also not to say they genuinely believed this, that it had violated a cease-fire agreement with the on many occasions by the united nations and which might he -- which might encourage terrorist act goodies in the region.

it is also worthwhile to remember in the clinton administration in 1998, the senate voted in a nonbinding resolution 98 to nothing that i should be removed. this is not a novel idea that bush introduced. i supported that part of it. where i disagreed with bush as they believed that after saddam had been overthrown, that we have the capacity to make a democracy out of the country during military occupation that

not only was islamic and therefore a different approach to the notion of pluralism, but also in which there was a profound division between the shia and the sunni and a profound division between the kurds and the sunnis and the shia. so i think that is where they went wrong. >> with respect, it does seem to me -- >> i've explained why didn't. >> it does seem to me what that history has shown us guess there was a lot of rhetorical notion. when the decision was made of it seems to me that history shows the people for their demonstration were determined to go to iraq to help shape the evidence with the notion they were bought with 9/11 was never

close to being accurate and to take your point -- your point that throughout this book is they were at best victims of delusions about what they could do. but we are so pressed for time. there are about 25 of the things i'd like to talk about. >> the point is that the u.s. government of the president did not misunderstand the situation. the point is what the larger purposes of the united states in the construction of the region should we and the fun things we are able to do another things they cannot do. >> before afterlife question i have to make this observation. nowhere in your book, george w. bush's second inaugural address proclaimed it will be the policy of the united states to spread freedom and tyranny everywhere in the world.

i actually thought of you because if you are watching at home, throwing something at the television set. [laughter] it exemplifies what you think is a dangerous this apprehension of how the world works. >> the united states three levels of understanding. one, objectives or definitions of security that are so vital to a that we will defend them or try to achieve them if necessary. this spec and its objectives in security returns, which are important to u.s., but which we will try to achieve only with

allies. and the third is objectives and security concerns, which we should not do because they are beyond our capabilities or value framework. so this is the sort of discussion we need to have. >> your turn. if you have a question, raise your hand. we look at a microphone. as you remember, we have to, to a common understanding of what a questionnaires. [laughter] this is very important and i will be exceedingly undiplomatic , like dr. kissinger and making sure we have questions. so microphones to the people.

i get to call. let's start with the front row. i will get back there he promised. >> thank you for enlightened evening. dr. kissinger, if your national security advisor, what would you advise president obama to do with regard to sending troops to the middle east? >> you know, it is very hard to give tactical advice. let me tackle the question in another way. i have now lived so long that i have witnessed and innovatively

participated in five words. some is an active participant. some as an observer who knew the key players. and if you look at the five wars the united states conduct it since 1945, we have achieved our stated objective in only one, which was the first gulf war. the korean war was so do they draw and the other three wars we withdrew from. but each of them started the this one now, with great enthusiasm and then at some point, the only key debate was how you get out of it and withdraw the team the only strategy accepted as a general

consensus. so what i would take to the president in security advisor, what i would say to him -- what i say to you is tell me how it is going to and then let's get a plan. i think it was correct that when americans murdered on television for the purpose of intimidating regions and ourselves, i think it is right for us to respond. though we also need a strategy of of how it will end in what we are trying to achieve. and i would tell him internally,

should be the most important thing that he can deal. >> halfway back. yes. could you stand up. project better. >> back in the 60s, the u.s. supported the removal of some of the latin american governments in the establishments of nondemocratic governments in the region and in some countries we would consider barbarian by all means now at least. when you look back today, e.u. think it was the right policy for the last to support the establishment of those nondemocratic governments?

>> i can't answer that question in the abstract until i know what government you are talking about and whether what you consider the american establishing of them, whether that is a correct description of it. >> chile, argentina, brazil, uruguay. >> asserted today -- that sort of debate, with these ideas, to write his first name, partly as a result of the vietnam war, it had become axiomatic that the united states was connecting moral violence is and therefore

we need not consider what serious people conducting serious policies might do. they chile saying, many books have been written on this and there is no possible way we can come to a conclusion about it. but one in contributor for a fact there is when the revolution that overthrew -- every democratic body in chile supported it and every democratic birdie welcome to. then, we did not put it up to be

the know web. with penalty established an autocratic regime, that is when the democratic party in chile on the practical problem for any american president faced with this situation a can you get involved in trying to overthrow any government which does not follow american preferences and what are the consequences for the united states? >> it's not as though we hadn't done that. in maine, iran, guatemala, which i do overthrow castro. it is not as though the united states said have whatever system

you want. when i got to be tricky for this season of american companies, in the team was happy to try. >> i don't know about bottom all a because that was before my time. [laughter] 's >> it was before my time, too. [laughter] >> it is very easy -- it is very to give judgment after the u.n. if you start from the assumption that people in high office continually are there because they think of themselves there's nothing more important except to improve the security and the values of our country. they can then still have the wrong assumptions. but this idea that the united

states linux -- it places a practical problem. let me give you an experience i know about. in 1973, egypt was showing signs of wanting to move out of the soviet orbit into relationship with the united states. and from the point of view of stability in the middle east and peace and religion, of course we nail it was also basically autocratic ruler. the crew to think of him as a great man, which tremendously to

the peace process in the region. i wish we had another set. then he was succeeded by mubarak. i was not in august at that time. but in any one year, the american president in security advisory secretary of state had a finite number of problems that is possible to deal with and to stir up the middle east when you don't know what the outcome will be and when the outcome may be nodded all democratic, it has happened after traverse where with support. this is a question to reflect upon. that doesn't say that every decision was correct.

but simultaneously the united states should not be involved everywhere and say however, they should overthrow the democratic -- anti-democratic government. i understand what you are saying. i am not saying that america has overreacted. i've laid out what i think it should be. but i have seen enough of it to know that in the operation of security and the united states, one has to make some allowance for the contention consensus. >> on this site. yes, sir. >> i do regret after 30 years on

television, i think we would come would come here and have all this time. >> dr. kissinger, church and state and democracies can argue really fueled the rise and their success. in most troubled regions of the world, it seems to be a heresy punishable by death in some cases. do you think this is a fundamental gap are fundamental problem that if they want turnberry or two true global world order? >> it is -- first of all, i agree with you and the american fundamentals. in the islamic religion, it is not possible to separate church

and state because they are considered to be part of the same overriding philosophy. you would see even in turkey they would have attempted to create a secular state. it is now towards the islamic concept. it is not so much the case in relations with china. there's no concept -- no national concept of religion. it also has no national concept of pluralism. but it's a different issue in china than it has been with respect to the muslim world or to any order in which religion

and the state of marriage -- the state emerge. >> let me see if we can get someone all the way back. the very last row, yes. that will cost you $500 for derek cheater's last game, by the way. >> this will be very short. i wanted to think is excellent the -- [laughter] -- rather wonderful things he had to say over his career on the importance of statesmanship and statesmanship wasn't really mentioned tonight. i wonder an oscar question, where can will learn how to be at her statesmen? for statesmanship being taught any place in our country that you could signal out as fulfilling that role that was developed in your own mind and

in your writing over the years and particularly reflected in this the. >> i think that is a very important question because statesmanship consists of helping to lead your society from where it is to verrett hasn't been. so it needs a combination of courage and character and above all a sense for the trends of that. if you look at the great statesmen, they have generally had this quality now.

in our society is extremely pragmatic and continues problem-solving rather than the action of that historical revolution as its principal at it is. two other obstacles -- two other problems we face. our electoral process is getting so complicated and so expensive that the leaders have to spend some much of their time on the process and on raising money and answering questions on television shows that it's not -- there isn't enough time

to reflect about the direction of the future. if you look at britain in the 19th century, they have the succession the prime minister's. for almost a century, all of them, whatever differences they had had some basic convictions about the role of britain, the actions britain should take and the reason for it was they came from -- david in an environment in which these values and things were grander. and therefore provided a basis for creative thinking.

i am very worried as i said in this book about the impact of the way history is taught and conceived on the ability to develop. >> you know what occurred to me? if you tried to go to pakistan and then through to china with today's technology, someone would have taken an iphone picture and treated it out in the whole secret would've been blown blown before you got to beijing. when you think about that, it is a different world. we have the time for a couple more questions? no, we are done? i am sorry, folks. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> one of the things that fascinates me is that you talk about how warfare and violence was really necessary for civilization. and without that, they would not have been in a civilization. can you talk about that a little bit? >> absolutely. this is what they may want to

read the book actually. i came across the extraordinary fact that in every single civilization before we invented industrialized society, every single civilization depended on agriculture. and that meant that in every single civilization, whether china, india, europe, the middle east developed a system whereby a small aristocracy comprising at most 5% of the population took away the surplus of produce grown by the peasants and kept in a subsistence level of poverty and degradation and used this world they have taken to find the civilization project. this could only have been done by force. they had this peasant somehow had to be subdued. so 90% of the population

throughout the 5000 years were kept in penury, distress and anger. so as historians tell us, without this terrible system, we would probably not have developed beyond a primitive level as a species because this system supported a privileged caste with the people who have the leisure to explore the arts and sciences on which civilization depended. plus where your economy is based on agriculture, the only way you can if you like increase your gross national product is by acquiring more arable land and more peasants. consequently, welfare became essential to the economy as the only way for the economy to grow and plunder two and plunder tube is also essential to supporting the aristocratic lifestyle.

a economic aspect was always there. but of course because we are meaning seeking creatures, this effort, the struggle to achieve civilization was mythologize in various religious systems to get it a name, today the significance. but at the same time, there were always profits and seizures, by thinking of the prophets of israel, for example. jesus, mohammed, confucius who spoke out against the system and castigated people, rulers who are oppressing the poor in this way had harsh words for those people who said their prayers are worshiped in the temple, but neglected the plight of the poor or the oppressed. >> now i was going to say, so are you saying that violence was a good name? there is a good and art can be a

good day. without it there is kind of a conundrum. >> absolutely. civilization is a dilemma for us all. of course i don't think violence and warfare is a good name. it is apologist as the system of agrarian depression is utterly appalling. but it is a dilemma. and the american blog says that all of last to benefit from a system of oppression are in somewhat implicated in the suffering that it causes -- that has been caused and all of a sudden i've today i'll are civilizational achievements our privileged lifestyle to all those millions of men and women who were oppressed for or 5000 years in this way, the mass of society. .. producer

of booktv and they are wawing walking here. he is going to join us to do a call-in on civil rights. we are pleased to have another author long-term senator joining us, james clyburn. congressman, we wanted to take a fun what peniel joseph was talking about with stokely carmichael and do a call-in segment with their viewers on civil rights. i want to start by asking you how many times were you arrested during the civil rights heyday movement?