being here. [applause] >> you are watching booktv with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. television for serious readers. >> and now booktv continues with more nonfiction authors and books. on after words. ..

we are here to get to know one another and also to celebrate the publication of a very special book by joyce king exonerated. many of you have already read that so you know what's in it and some of you have lived through something similar to that so you know about the life that is depicted in it and we are very honored to have joyce at the institute.

i'm going to turn it over to her and i will reappear later. for those of you that don't know joyce came i want to introduce her. she's a native texan who's traveled the world over with a message of justice, hope and healing. she's an award-winning veteran broadcast journalist and was a news anchor. the story of the dragging in jasper texas. we probably remember that if we have the book and its a powerful look in the end it is published in 2,002. it received widespread coverage and discussion everywhere from good morning texas to "the oprah winfrey show" and she's also written a memoir growing up

southern white men i met along the way is the subtitle of that fund. in her freelance articles appeared in numerous journals across the u.s. and you may have read her work in the dallas morning news and other publications. she is an honors department lecturer. she served us why the original hosts for the studio and npr affiliated radio show featuring the authors produced under the directorship and governor rick perry to serve as the representative of the cancer research institute in texas and she's honored to have been the first nonlawyer appointed to serve on the board of directors of the project of texas. i will ask her to come to the

podium and take over for a while. thank you for being here. [applause] >> a good evening everyone. i'm so glad to see all of you and into so many pieces that i haven't seen in years, some of you months and some of you are new to me altogether so i'm glad to be meeting you for the first time tonight. i want to thank doctor larry allen's and the entire staff for being supportive of my work over the years whether it was in the form of books, manuscripts, screenplays, columns. he's always a friend i could call and get his opinion and he was always and is always very supportive. thank you. the dallas institute is great because you are all here. before we start i would like to

dedicate tonight's book reading and discussion to my mother who has alzheimer's. she can no longer remember her daughter's words and i want to dedicate this evening to my family who couldn't be here. my brother is our mother's primary caregiver. i have to tell you about my big brother not many men might have left a busy life in houston to go to a little town in louisiana to take care of the woman raised us that he is her 24/mexican caregiver and they so desperately wanted to be here tonight so i dedicate this to them and by two sons. but i do have someone here representing my family. thank you for coming. the doctor seems there and i go way back. we grew up on the same street so i know your secrets and did you know mine.

he's a wonderful inspiration to me in a rock. he's like that other brother. so thank you. i also have my family sitting right here on the front row and they are a family of man i would like to introduce you to this before i bring them up, i want to give you some numbers. numbers are very important. let's look at dallas texas. i call it when i'm traveling the dna exoneration capital of the world not just the united states but the world. nationally the numbers i'm going to give you more than 315 people have been exonerated by dna evidence nationwide but it is texas, my native texas that has had more than any other state in the country and of those 49 men, 24 have been exonerated by dna evidence in dallas, the single

jurisdiction in the nation that has had more than any place else on earth. that's mind-boggling when you think about it. the dallas. how did we get here? and i hope to delve into some of that this evening. i would also like to address the case is because i can ask all the of time that is the difference between the case and dna case and how many have there really been? there've been more than 1400 exoneration because america proposed dna and non- dna. the non- dna cases the of course have no biological evidence and are much more difficult to prove. so we may never know how many truly innocent people are locked up. but i hope the stories from the gentlemen that are here tonight and stories like mine about

james will help people want to learn more and do more because i consider myself an ordinary person constantly being thrust into extraordinary situations. and it's how you answer those challenges that built your character so think about it the next time you say no. now i want to bring up my family sitting here in the front row. we actually invited about ten exonerates into some of them couldn't be with us this evening and they did send their best wishes but when i called your name i would like for you to come up to the stage and stand with me. i would like for you to stand for james to cause he was your brother. let me tell you a little bit about these guys. it is an honor i know most of them to have worked with them and fought for them, to have gotten to know them. i've broken bread with them, gone to coffee, dinner. i went to movie within

exonerated once. he's not here so i can tell it. he's like why did you pick this movie is awful. [laughter] we went to see hairspray and i was like i don't get it. i've been to football games with charles chuck meant. he's gone to my son's little league games. so these men are family to me and i'm so happy that some of them were able to make it tonight. we know that one man is not here james potter dispensed 27 years in four months in texas prison for a crime he did not commit a great insult was not only with a murder he did not commit but it was the murder of the woman that he loved, the only woman that he had ever loved. 9,855 nights james was known as texas inmates 323771.

323771. i'm going to ask his brothers now to come forward. these are men that were wrongfully accused, convicted and were wrongfully incarcerated charles chapman would you come up. charles spent 26 years in prison for a crime that he did not commit and when you read exonerated people find out charles was released about three months before we got james out so i got to know charles quite a bit and spent quite a bit of time with them. come on over. thomas, what you come up. thomas spent 23 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. he is a man of few words so i

did all the talking in the conversation. is johnny back here? this is the lone man sitting here that i've never met. so, like you i'm meeting him for the first time in front of the reasons i invited him here he spent 26 years in texas prison -- 27. thank you. don't want to forget a day. i wanted to invite him back because james was constantly talking about him while he was incarcerated. we would read your case file and discuss what was wrong and why you needed to get out and what people were doing about it but i missed your exoneration so i'm very glad you could be here tonight. thank you so much. i want to see if i get this

right. billy smith spent 19 years, ten months and seven days in texas prison for a crime he didn't commit. he really knows me and so does his lovely wife sitting right here because they let me sleep in their house when i was a hot mess. johnnie johnny lends me knows me better than anybody else. with all the seizures james suffered iowa's the one person that could soothe him through those. would you please come up. 27 years.

i want you to look up at the face of innocence and finally christopher scott, c.. could he spent 13 years in prison for a crime that he didn't commit and he's the founder and executive director of house of renewed hope which is a nonprofit that works to serve other exonerates and i'm so proud of him because not only is he the executive director of house of renewed hope hoping to find other innocent men that he and some that you see here also the focus of the documentary soon to be aired but he was also a 2012 texan of the year and i think that he's a model citizen on getting it right when you are released. what i decided to do, everyone please give these men a round of

applause. [applause] what i would like to do is read a section i'm going to set it up for you from exonerated. james was exonerated in april, 2008 and two days later james was ready to get married and i was like two who and he said i saw you in court. [laughter] i said it doesn't happen that fast in the real world. i thought you were taking things slow in prison and he said no. i saw you every night in my dreams for 27 years and it would take james two years to tony that i had a striking physical resemblance to beverly jones,

the murder victim in bodybuilding characteristics and mannerisms and teachers and i thought that was amazing. i'm glad he didn't come you immediately. but i decided to read from is a section about the very first argument that we had once we decided we were going to be exclusive he convinced me and i said okay i will give it a shot. i never thought about that. but james was worried so we did keep our relationship a secret in the beginning. one of the first argument we had just james telling me there are going to be no secrets between us i need to tell you that i smoke weed. are you trying to go back to prison? and you do know you are in love

with the square's woman in america so i'm arguing why he shouldn't do this and he's arguing the only way that he can make the transition to the free world is to smoke every day because he did it in prison for 27 years. i'm telling him your lighting. there is no way to god does in prison every day. he said let me tell you how. for this discussion goes on all night. we are yelling and screaming. i have my keys in my purse. i'm going to the door. i don't smoke, drink, do drugs. i am already created enough. so this is the section of james convincing me why the weed has to stay. but why do you smoke now that you're free? i'm not free, james said. not as long as the demons from

back there keep after me. what kind of demons, i asked. james warned me that they might come i was sorry i asked and even sorry that i knew. we stood on the balcony for hours, sometimes resting on an old donated futon with black pillows as another 747 and flew over to and at the international airport james and i stared up at the stars. i can no longer see. a the perfect fit between shoulder and underarm. our rapid heartbeat thumped against each other by the thin layers of flesh. i was afraid to move because he hated talking to me on prison life. he became inmate 323771. i was on my way to work one

night in the laundry room, he began a story, when all of a sudden i heard a loud banging. there was a guard station at the signing. i was about to relieve whoever had been back there so the place was mostly deserted. the guard yelled what is that noise. what have you got and try to. i told him i didn't have anything. the noise grew louder. it sounded the same way smaller residential drivers do and something has been deposited like a pair of tennis shoes minus the clothes. it's an unforgettable annoyance to hear the thump of an item that wasn't bad for loan occupancy. when i looked inside at first i couldn't be leave it, his voice dropped. then i heard the screams. spinning around was a man. the reason he was hard to see

were sparks of fire dancing all over him. his eyes were shut. he was being cooked and burned. james knew prison officials would blame him for the man being inside the dryer so he yelled out for the supervisor to come and rescue them and. finally the supervisor stopped the dryer and james helped him remove burning inmate who was crying in pain. what did you do, i asked. what could i do, he said he had on the futon. they carried him to the prison infirmary and they hauled me to the wall where i was made to stand all night to answer questions that i didn't have any answers for. i stood there all night long. there was nothing to tell. things like that in texas prison were best left untold. i saw nothing, i said nothing. they finally let me go back to myself. a wise man in a dryer, he was really going round and round?

it's getting cold out here. come on. james smiled. i will roll you a square, you look like you need one. no, i'm going home before the sun comes up. do you still want to leave me, can you still understand why i spoke weed? >> will never leave you, james, and i never did. thank you all so much for standing for james. i love it that you were able to come and share this with me. i know that he would be proud of all of you. these men actually were part of the contingent who helped pass. when it comes to compensating exonerated men they have worked

and worked and advocated and i just glad that i was there for a couple of those moments traveling going to houston to shake hands and tell stories over and over if they must have grown weary of telling that each time they did that they told it with passion, conviction, and they convinced the lawmakers and governor perry who signed the law into effect so i'm very proud of you. would you return to your seat, thank you very much. [applause] a lot of people have asked me how does an accomplished woman like joyce gets together with an

old ex-con mike james woodward, but to know him was to truly love him, his sense of humor, the way that he made you laugh and then behaved like he didn't know what was funny. every sentence began with say, which kind of made me wonder can you stop saying that every time, but i loved him because he was honest. he had a brutal honesty about him. it hurt my feelings, too bad. you need to know this independent he would take off his bifocals and tell me what i needed to know that could have been set in five minutes. so i left him for that and one of the reasons i stayed with him as he asked me what you saved my life and how do you answer that?

the other reason, and this is a story that i didn't want to read from that i was told you quickly i had only known james for about ten days. i had gone to los angeles to pitch a screenplay. i was very tired when i came back and he insisted these call me as soon as you get to town. why, we got you out. no, call me. so i checked on him and i said something i wish i hadn't because it didn't come out right. i said you know i had a loved one murdered behind bars, mr. woodward, and he said really he wasn't eager to pursue this conversation. and then it hits me i shouldn't have said that. he probably doesn't want to talk

about that. and he said what unit and i said alice, the death house and he said really, what year and he's talking slower and slower and now i'm trying to change the subject until finally he says was your brother a light skinned dude with freckles like you yes. i saw the murder. he said i saw your brother gets killed. now i'm thinking was he sent to me coming here for david every day that i couldn't. i was only 12 when he went away. he was gone for 20 years and 30 days shy of being released a case was put out on him and it was successful so when i tell

you in the book i get a loved one back in the box a lot of the honorees don't know this story and neither did my staff members because i didn't want people to feel sorry for me but everything i did for legislation, reform, everything i tried to do was very personal to me but for james to fall out of the sky and into my back and then ten days later tell me that he saw my loved one murdered made me look at him in a completely different way. i sat with him for hours and hours trying to figure out what he wants from me and that's one of the reasons i stayed with him. would you please come up.

and i want to share this piece of paper with you that someone just gave me. they saw man television yesterday during an interview and for some reason this paper fell out of a closet or a room in his home. it was was in its research or that he pulled open and if this wasn't a message that he's supposed to be here tonight i don't know what is. local author to oprah. [laughter] is connected with him. i just saw her do an interview and also connected that he had met me years earlier when i was with cbs and he said i angered you were disappointed you. i won't put words in your mouth. he thought i had written a book

that was down on east texas and that's never been the case but when i see hate crime and they see a woman in the back they tend to think they know what the book is going to be about and he and i have a had a good conversation and he said i could rescue this so thank you for bringing this and for coming. >> can you hear me? and i want to note that as we began a good friend of yours and mine with whom you worked on the

studio thank you for coming to be with us. to begin with could you give us a little i imagine most people are like me and they don't know much of anything about the innocence project of texas. could you say a little bit about that to give some context? is a nonprofit of new york but they are part of a network of projects that are all over the nation and a lot of them are affiliated with law schools and they usually have a chief counsel and it is comprised of mostly volunteers and attorneys and again, more students and exonerated themselves are now working with the innocence project but in the case of

texas, i had written a column and he said i want to get together with you and i thought why. he said i know your thesis on justice which is interesting. it's in every book i've ever written and every column about justice. so i met with him and joined the project in texas as the first nonlawyer i got a quick education on the numbers, statistics. >> and it's still going. >> there's one in new york. are there other projects like this in other states?

spinnaker the innocence network.org has a list of projects that you can contact not only in america but worldwide you get a listing of who is real and who is not. >> that's impressive. >> there is a lot of work to do. >> told us about house bill 1736. up until that time there was no compensation for time served behind bars terry of >> that means just as many states almost do not have the compensation law. texas had the compensation law in place but they need to be revisited and so we did the hard work of revisiting that law.

tim cole was an innocent man that died in prison and his family allowed his name to be placed on the house bill and from then it was all about getting people on board and the changes would be to increase the compensation and to then add healthcare so that they wouldn't bring lawsuits that could drag on for years so that's why the act became the law. >> and he was accused of what? >> he was a college student at texas tech university and was wrongfully accused of being a rapist, college student is served in the military come and honorable young man. and i'm sorry i never got to

know him but i did get to work with his family, the mother was so generous with me and so generous and forgiving of the accuser who apologized to the family that knew this is the wrong guy, but he died before ut he died before getting to see this happen including his name on the bill and being found -- she said all along i am innocent. so that's who tend is. >> so the next time what we need to do is find out where it is and stop and look at what was just recently placed. >> i don't think you you'll have any trouble noticing it. i spoke with corey a few days ago about the statue that was done of his brother.

governor perry and wendy davis were there to show support for innocence in the community. i find it kind of ironic that people in other parts of america joke about texas beating the backward state that we are now the state that is a model for justice and we have the best compensation law because men like this have worked so hard so i'm proud that texas gets to reverse itself and do some good so that people can look at us and say we need a law like that. the column i wrote earlier this year about a man that they do not know was angry about his case and sat on the louisiana death row for 26 years. the compensation law is $24,000

a year and a caps cap of $250,000 for the column made of louisiana and some other officials upset with me to at least change the law said that he gets more than $25,000 a year and there are still some difficult no compensation, no apology. they were just told you can go. >> and exonerated person doesn't necessarily get the compensation he or she also has to be pardoned is that right? stomach absolutely right and the state of texas. >> so there was a story about james because the governor didn't sign his part in.

>> into details the pardon having sat on his desk for weeks and before that, he signed the pardons quickly. he showed no interest in hearing her do find it and a friend of mine invited me and said a friend of yours will be out. i said it's a sunday james won't come with me. she said don't tell him where you're going so i didn't tell him. say, where are we going again? a little garden party. it will be nice. you will like everybody. i didn't dare tell him the governor of texas would be if this party. i wanted to put james in front of rick perry who is a big joyce

king fan. he's read all of my books and i hope he reads this one. so we go in the door of this fabulous home in dallas and james is sweating profusely and i like what you get a grip so i'm fixing him and adjusting and rick perry has his back to us so there's a lot of people and he can't figure out who is that he and i and i said let's just go over and get in line and repair a turned around and james nearly passed out when he saw the governor of texas. he had actually heard that rick and i were good friends and he kept saying you don't know the governor. so when he saw them at all came back and you could see it in his eyes like please don't let him have a seizure. and i said may i present to you the 17th man exonerated by dna.

his hand went out and he saw it. he brushed his hand away and grabbed ten. and he asked him. he said if the state of texas doing everything for you that it should be and he he said yes sir, absolutely. i said no. since you asked, you have a part in that's been sitting on your desk and james is like don't talk to the governor like that. and unlike james, shut up to be the governor, listen to me. and i know his sister so she came over and hugged me, the whole family. are you there adopted black republican? [laughter] so i kind of gave her the signal. she said let's go get a drink. you need to let joyce and my brother talk. so he can still hear my mouth. i said why won't you sign the pardon for james and he

basically listen to what i have to say. he asked a couple questions. did i think that james was bitter, what kind of man was he. the next day which was a monday i got a phone call at home and its governor. he said what are you doing and i said nothing, what are you doing to it's the middle of the day, aren't you running the state? he said i wanted to let you guess what i'm doing and i said what are you doing, he said i signed the pardon for james bordered. i said did you call and tell him and he said no i think that he would rather hear it from you. so i had the honor of calling james and telling him that the governor did sign his part in and i said before you hang up i want to tell you something i didn't tell you at the party. he's not only the 17th man exonerated, he's also might see on a bad i didn't want that to cloud your judgment.

he said why didn't you tell me at the party while i am hugging on his woman? [laughter] and after that, james beattie in my deep and true friendship with rick. who has been as you heard in the introduction, convinced me to serve as their representative in 2010 on the cancer prevention research institute of texas, which was work that i really loved the first day on the job helping the cancer patients in the state. we awarded $216 million in grants and they were swimming to put me on the board because of his oncologist, scientists, doctors, researchers. and i told them i'm just a writer. and they said while the well the governor must want you here for some reason. so i loved my state and i loved seeing it gets better. justice can't tolerance, we can do more than we are doing. >> so james was pardoned and

qualified for the competition which in his instance came not to $25,000 a year that $80,000 a year times two for a total of $4.2 million. the cash basis of justice it should be no less yet you write fairly early in the book being exonerated doesn't end in the courtroom. the gavel to conclude a hearing for an exonerated off to be called a warning shot. why? >> because these men had no idea when they first were set free what was waiting for them, what people are willing to do for a dollar, but even some greedy family members might do to you

for the money. and i'm not saying family members do not care that i'm saying that kind of money at a different component and also there were as i said in an interview recently psychological issues, technological issues just getting acclimated to the society. james used to call himself a social prayer and who needed civilizing. he would say i can't be levi said that because i have no filter. we were at a law school function and this woman kept rubbing his arm and flirting with him and i was like giving him the signal be cool. finally it came out and he said who did you say you are again come i'm the dean of the law school and he said i thought you were a hooker the way you were rubbing on me. [laughter]

he was honest but that's an example the first first time i set him down i said we are going to learn how to shop. he said you can go without me. no, i'm going to take you to wal-mart first. what kind of plan is that, i've been there to walgreens. i said no, wal-mart. he saw a supercenter in this neighborhood and we have only gone a few rows before he stopped and i looked behind me and said what and he said can we get out of here i can't do this. and he was shaking trying to light a cigarette outside of the tour. he said this freedom thing isn't all cracked up to be. so just getting acclimated to

everyday living, the internet, e-mail, cell phones, reconnecting with people that you no longer know and then billy smith's case i often tell billy how much i admire him. he lost ten family members have died while he was incarcerated. so when you get out, where do you go, but family do you have and do they know what you're going through? so that's why i love these guys. >> you learn many things reading this book and it's very moving. it's a love story. above all else. and one of the most painful parts of reading this book for me is to see the phrases you and the sentences you have throughout the book such as james changed that morning forever and another one james

was morphing into someone else. and i could feel them slipping away. and this was not james. and so, you in the book you trace back the amorphous us of his that was not a pleasant thing for you to watch but you watched it and you say that the compensation was probably the biggest of his demons. >> it wasn't so much for james. he enjoyed having the money and how it helped him. he didn't enjoy the people that it attracted to him. james was unable to say no where as i had no problem saying no and in fact i earned the nickname the warden. if you can get through heard you might be able to get to him that was impossible since we had a joint bank account and i accounted for every penny he

would laugh when we did go through the sunday paper for coupons and safe usa unit we have enough money. i like saving money and i'm going to save you a lot of money. there were people trying to figure out i have a great business idea. women would come to our front door knowing i'm living there to borrow a cup of sugar and i'm like he doesn't need a freak show today. i'm sorry. i can't put it any other way but to say i saw the demons of close and i saw what they did to him. >> you are a christian. >> im. >> you are a person of deep faith and conviction. what role did that play in your relationship with james?

>> that's a very provocative question that i rarely get asked. i would have to say that without my faith in god and being able to talk to my mother who when she met james didn't have alzheimer's she could counsel me and give me advice and i prayed a lot. james and i went to church all the time. we were seeking something spiritual that he had been found in prison. and so, i looked within, a lot of self reflection and spiritual conversations and a lot of talking to god and asking is this still what he wants me to do, why am i still here although there were many days i wanted to run away and i doubt very seriously that people knew how sick he was. he suffered from seizures for 20 years in prison which amazingly was managed by medication. he would get out and the seizures intensified because the stress of the free world.

he also discovered upon his release he had type two diabetes, smoking two packs a day it felt at times i was living with a walking timebomb. he had a very short fuse with some people, not with me because i don't play that. but i knew how to reach him at how to communicate and let him know everything is going to be okay. you are having the winston churchill black dog days and when the black dogs to bark i would make sure that we were at home so he could have time to reflect and be at peace so that no one misunderstood where the anger was coming from with the teachers could happen at any time. he tried to get out of a moving car several times on the interstate under the influence of a seizure. so i just i had my hands full.

>> you know i admire your writing and i think you're a wonderful writer and your writing in this book shows your complete devotion to james and your complete love for him some people even now would say you were crazy to stay with him. and i'm sure you probably got that from some people. so why did you stay? >> his sense of humor. he knew how to make me laugh. and despite her obvious background differences and how we came up so differently, looking at james was like looking into a mirror, a soulmate, a person who i need it as much as he needed me except people didn't know that because

no one ever asked me what i saw an james. and james. they always asked how did you get her. they never asked me. so he made me laugh. he was wonderful to be around. we went after where in there to get her committed everything together. i tried to leave. i went all the way to london. we have been planning our honeymoon and our wedding date. we had bought the engagement rings and he wanted to go to london because we argued constantly over hitler and churchill. we neglected to get his passport on time and the last big fight we had i just got on a jet and i knew he couldn't follow me without a passport and i went to london on a one-person honeymoon. so i did try to get away from the james but he always had a way of pulling me back.

i will get help or we will go here. we will go and talk. his answer to everything with was left but to vegas and i would tell him no, we have to get all of this out. you have to stop doing this. so i did physically leave him but the whole time i was away from him i was there for only. he was telling me everything that was wrong. and all the women he tried to replace me with just didn't have it. >> you never lost faith in the possibility that you could be happy together. >> no, i never did. >> i want to turn to you all and see what questions you have.

it's not all painful. the fact that you are away from james as a matter-of-fact the circumstances surrounding his death at the dallas county jail you never got all of the information that you felt you needed so you write towards the end of your book this is the end of the story. i will have justice for james. is that the moral of the story do you think? >> i think there is because you all may know james died on october 15, 2012 in dallas county jail of a seizure on the

floor. he had been arrested after the eighth car crash of his short freedom and they discovered a substance on him since he was arrested for that and for some other issues that have been going on. when i try to locate him no one would tell me where he was because we were living together. so i came back to our home and i couldn't find him. the car was gone. and finally one of his lawyers called me and said don't worry he's in dallas county jail. how does that sound, don't worry he's in dallas county jail. he had a wreck. okay this is getting better. he's not injured but he's going to be okay. so i had a false hope. he will be out.

at the time i had become the oldest student on campus living at an apartment going to school for time which tripped a lot of the kids out when i would come into the class. are you the instructor? no. but i got a call today he died and basically it was a lawyer that knew me and said don't turn on the tv. okay. james is dead. and that's how they told me. and i let out a scream that drew several students to try to figure out okay this is the middle-aged woman in our class. what's wrong with her she's hysterical. finally when they calmed me down i knew that it was anger because he didn't have to die that way

and it's not the end of the story because a lot of what happened in that jail is starting to come to light. dallas county jail has been notorious for years with a federal oversight until 2011 and that made it mandatory for them to treat prisoners better and not let them be sick and die and go to their aid when they need it. i did meet with an inmate who said he heard my name in dallas county from james and everyone in his head you don't know her. there was a column in the paper and and james saw it while he was locked up and he said this woman used to be my fiancée and they were like right. that one guy believed him so when he finally got out months later he contacted me through my website and i called him and he said i know you probably don't

want to meet with any more inmates were anything to do with this but do you want to know some of james last words and i said where are you and i drove to where he was. my only stipulation is that he lets me record what he said and he pretty much told me some very disturbing things about what had gone on in the jail prior to two james seizure. that's my idea of getting justice was to follow off with the follow-up with the lawsuit, have people answer questions. the proper legal way. but it was slapped down by people that said you're not his legal spouse and if you know the law there are only two people that can bring a wrongful death lawsuit that would be either the spouse or children or the parents of the person who is deceased.

that's why i said i believed there will be more about this to come out but i know something else went on. >> i think if you live in dallas county and you read the paper you would think that craig watkins had an accident on the tollway and coyote was distracted of ram into another car. the story keeps going on and on. you are giving a whole different picture and i wonder to what extent the exoneration whether

there was a pattern that existed prior or whether it's something he picked up and brought to the city a lot of fame and recognition. there is a lot we are missing by reading the dallas morning news. >> interesting question because the dna exonerations has begun in dallas in 2001 because of chapter 64 the inmates could start applying for testing so that happened before he took office so you would turn on the news and cbs project in new york but after he became the first african-american in the history of texas i think that he can be credited because the the organization that i worked with in the organization was to partner with mr. watkins and

that couldn't have happened without his stamp of approval, and it definitely couldn't have happened without his office saying i'm not going to block it into the conviction integrity unit that was approved with 400,000 dallas commissioners to establish the conviction integrity unit in the country and now as we speak the u.s. attorney's office is now about to launch its own conviction integrity unit and i hope they look at this model in dallas because now they will seek innocent man at the federal level and wondering what the states are doing and i hope they will look at what texas has done thank you for your question.

>> i just want to let the public know that for seven years i filed a motion for a dna test and for seven years i was ignored. as a matter of fact my attorney came back and told me all of my emotions were in the final 13 which we know that's the trash until craig watkins came. i think that we can give him the credit for all of us being here because the biggest problem that we would have tried to get justice at first falls on the desk. he can be neither grant such

added to what you are saying when craig watkins took office he ran with it and the whole thing changed. i've been waiting for six or seven years to get announcements from dallas county and i never got one until i called for the changing of the gods. >> absolutely correct and i would like to add to that working with greg, keep in mind he came into office at 29-years-old, so one of the youngest ever elected. i enjoyed my tenure with the project working with him and meeting him. keep in mind even if we brought the case he could still reject and fight it.

he had the power to say i don't believe that he's innocent. ..

>> so a lot of people do have a great, abiding respect for henry wade, and i'm sure that the legacy he left was due to him being a man of his time. but times change. and there needs to be equal justice more so in the state. and i just want to mention while we're talking about justice, don't you believe that america is crying out for justice in some form or another all over, whether it's ferguson, missouri, whether it's isis and beheadings? you see americans crying for justice. they want justice in some way or another, and that brings me to my longtime thesis: justice can

open the door to healing. but we have to get it first. >> what was king's great quote, the arc of justice -- no, the arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice? >> thank you. >> yeah. >> our nobel peace prize winner from 50 years ago, october 1964. >> right. >> yes. almost coming up on 50 years exactly when oslo made that announcement of the youngest man at that time, i believe 35 years old, to ever be awarded the nobel peace prize for his beliefs in nonviolence and his belief that we could be a better nation without all the bloodshed. where has that philosophy and principle gone? we could use it right now. >> yes. >> in the back. microphone first. >> i hear people always talk

statistics about america, and we need to, we need this done and that done, but nobody -- i never hear anybody say how do you do it. i mean, come up with any partial solutions. you know, i just don't. you know, you're always throwing out statistics, which we all know by heart now. but where do you begin doing something? and if somebody does try to do something, it seems like people, you know, don't, you know -- what do you think? am i -- >> i agree and disagree. i would have to say there are people posing solutions and actually working toward solutions. if you bring it back around to the innocence discussion and the causes for all of these wrongful exonerations would be in 75% of the more than 300 cases, we are looking at a fact that witnesses misidentified people. so was he 6-2 or 5-8?

was he light skinned or dark skinned? and the way that you solve that issue is to address that issue. so a lot of laws have been changed, things have been done. so this conversation i would have to say, yes, these men sitting here have done a lot of the work. >> you all have done great. i'm not talking about this, but, you know, generally when you turn on the tv, you see people always talking about whether it's, well, 90% of, you know, blacks are unemployed or, you know, they become what all these dread statistics that show how bad, you know, america is, i guess. we're not doing enough to help the poor. like, for instance, tavis smiley. he toured the country, him and a guy named cornel west, what he calls the polity tour. and i'm trying to figure out what, what -- how is that supposed to help somebody? you go on tour, and you're asking them how does it feel to be poor, you know, and put them on camera. >> i understand totally what you're getting, and i will talk

with you after we wrap up personally, one-on-one, because i can say that i wrote to president obama in 2012. not a very angry letter, certainly not like the guy that charged up the white house, but i did write a letter that should have probably concerned the secret service, and i'm pretty sure it did. because i sent my resumé, i sent a 100-page screenplay that i'd written just to prove that, you know, i can write, mr. president. and in that letter i told him of my deep concern that the middle class in this country is vanishing, and we are the groove between poverty and the very rich, the 1%. and without us, there's not that bridge that they cross over into. so i did not expect to get an answer, but mr. obama did write to me in 2012. and so i really appreciated him doing that. but there's more than enough work for any one of us to do. that starts at the community grassroots level.

i'm going to have to ask could you -- we have one more question. we have time for one more. >> we have time for one more question, and then we're going to transition. >> and let's -- thank you. let's give him a chance. hi. >> yeah. i ran track at smu with bill hill. >> okay. >> and mickey wade was our miler. >> okay. >> and the nephew of henry wade. the whole track team in the '60s went on into law school, about six of them, and became prosecuting attorneys during the '60s and '70s. so i stayed in touch with these people over the years. one of the things that bothered me when this whole exoneration thing came up was since i was co-captain with bill hill on the track team, and i knew him real well in a lot of circumstances. integrity, i think, was pretty much obviously missing in bill. and when i would talk to him about things, even down at the

court when i would go visit, he didn't make any excuses for trying to prosecute cases when he didn't have valid evidence. it was part of the system, you know, to prosecute people so they could get victories. it was all about winning. >> it was about winning. >> rather than about justice. so i would question him about that, and we would talk about it and so forth. so when the exoneration thing came up, i guess what occurred to me and what bothered me is i've never seen anything in which we go after the system or after people like bill hill who were responsible for doing these injustices. and i was thinking why has that not been dealt with in this media? why don't people deal with -- i mean, i spent one night in jail as a mistake. >> okay. >> and it wasn't like years or something, you know? and i, so i have a tiny little

feeling of what that, what you get treated like for your one night in jail. but to be treated that way for years and then nothing ever goes back to the person responsible for putting you there? i've never understood that. and i never see anybody talk about the prosecutors and the lack of evidence and how they could get away with it. i just talk about, i just hear about reparations and the attempt at justice and so forth now. so -- >> i think, i think the question you're asking me, and let me answer it best this way, you say why not? prosecutorial misconduct is one of the reasons for these wrongful exonerations beside there being problems with identifying from witnesses, misidentification is the number one. but right behind it is prosecutorial misconduct, not sharing of evidence. in james' case his may 1981 trial, one week before the trial investigators learned that the rd