ldn't speak to him for a long time after monica and that is really interesting. >> she finally called him from someplace in eastern europe and bill clinton was being advised because you don't want to get involved in this world where we are now. ..

>> life affirming story. >> reporter: clay had cancer four times over 17 years. i was his care giver and we had a lot of wonderful times we move from new york to california. he started life over again doing that magazine program at the university of california berkeley's journalism school. we had students who were a new

generation of journalists to come to our house all the time. it was a wonderful period. twice when he came back to new york and had to retire, his body began to slow down, as this is toward the end. i was ruminating. this was the smallest kitchen of the many kitchens of my life. it was unusually hot for june. standing on top of the refrigerator has to be small silicon steel the ceiling. i was telling a story with mushrooms because the chinese speak highly of boosting the immune system. i still can't give up. could he have left already? once the hospital bed was dated at our apartment everything changed. we no longer sleep beside each other. we occupied different rooms. he sleeps in our former sitting room now facing the window facing inward. so unlike him. he was always looking out

looking ahead. it was the first time he took me to his apartment in the east river. when he came off of the elevator his door was held wide-open by his avatar with a view of windows on the ramp of one of manhattan's grande bridges. i filled the world itself was opening to me. i am alone with a blunt knife in the kitchen. a blunt life is more dangerous than a sharp knife and a ragged wind. don't leave yet. and master of strength.

and the sudden memories are sharp along lazy sunday morning sifting through the papers together correcting the mistakes of the world. after breakfast we walk through central park at 110th behind rocks, slowly the first burst of magnolias returning in time to make separate affairs. that was in a larger apartment, if only it was a larger life. slowly i stepped across life thresholds' into his world, he is a pale giant under a white sheet, is still faced dissolved in the white fence. this is sculpted by career, the lover who haunted me for decades, the husband who shared my life for 24 years, a man who never had time to sleep. i bend over him, and it is cut out to danger. the surgeon's life must have

been sharp. it was so big that at first it looked like his head was on crooked. i whisper sweet as honey, don't leave yet. stay another summer. another life time. [applause] >> you are a beautiful reader and a beautiful white. there is one other little thing that might lift in a different direction which was a few days before he died. >> oh yes. he asked the doctor how long do i have and the doctor said not long. days to a week. isn't it wonderful? his eyes lit up.

he couldn't speak very well by then because children were at the base of his tongue. he looked excited. he did have a show and in two hours could be ready. and i couldn't believe my eyes pushed until the hospital bed into a wheelchair without any assistance, he rolled himself to his wardrobe, put down his nice linen jacket blue shirt put tinted sunscreen on his face to give him some, and i wheels him in front of a full length mirror and said how is that for handsome? and he smiled because it was a picture of normalcy and we fought our way to a cab and we had that 7 ft. african aid and

she knew who was boss. the short time we word there at lincoln center has a huge window walls across central park, and a full moon coursing across the sky, the older man at the piano he said he was going to play some of his own making. there are a lot of feelings of futility out there and it is called life is what you make it. that was our philosophy. i asked a waiter to -- could have been a drummer. a drummer. i love the drums and he started drumming on the table. and drummed on the table to the

music. and being a drummer again. one of the most wonderful experiences of my life to see him. it was midnight, didn't want to go to sleep. found his voice, gripped my hand and said that was a magical evening. two days later he died in my arms. >> thank you. [applause] >> you are watching the tv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv television for serious readers. >> this weekend on beeknd.v arthur brooks is live on in depth. jason socle sits down on afterwards to discuss race and

einlitics. nick chiles and robin schiff advise african-americans how to deal with police in the criminal justice system in the u.s.. robert baird provides a history of political assassinations and waco texas and check out a full schedule on line. >> here's a look at some upcoming book fairs and festivals happening around the country. on december 15th, national constitution center oppose the bill of rights day book festival in philadelphia. looking at the book festival scheduled for the new year, that you are a fell through the fifteenth is the savannah book festival in savannah, georgia. inn march 1berh and sixteenth is the seventh annual tucson festival of books hosted by the university of arizona. the va festival of the book is in charlottesville, va.. tell us about book fairs and

festivals in your area and we will lead them to our list. e-mail us at beekkbo@c on pac.org. beeknd.v speaks with brian stevenson about his recent book "just mercy: a story of son stice and redemption" at pmi and e-book fair. >> we want to meet and talk with author bryan stephenson 11. i want to learn about you. what is the equal justice initiative? >> is a private nonprofit human rights organization, mostly to incarcerated people and we have been around 25 years, people on death row represent children prosecuted for confinement and trying to change the way we talk about race and poverty. we have a pretty broad agenda focusing on criminal-son stice

reform and particularly -- >> how many p inple on death row in almmedama? >> alabama has 200 on death row. the largest death row per-capita in the country. we also have the highest death sentencing rate in the country. alabama is unique in that is the only state with the provision that allows our elected trial son dges to override jury verdict inf life which exceeds the number of death sentences. >> we invite you to talk mmedout the book. the first book, "just mercy: a story of son stice and redemption". tell us about that. >> focuses on walter mcmillan, and ie socent africae afamerican man in monroe ville, alabama. mysterious murder in monroe ville, a young white woman was murdered. and after 7 months, putting a great deal of pressure, talking about in peking the sheriff gun

sales had risen dramatically. and even if they were not guithay, walter m> fillan became that man. he didn't have a prior crime wasn't the type of person you would suspect of a brutal murder but he was having an interracial affair with a young white woman which we think brought in to the attention of law enforcement so he was arrested and put on death row for 15 months before the trial. the only case i ever worked on where the crimes were on death row before being convicted of a crime. when i met him i was shocked by that fact. when i talk to his family and is shocked that the time of the crime he wasia.

it was a tragic irony that they were unwilling to recogn noe his wrongful codeath iction of an african-american man. >> he came to the attention of the einlice because he was having

an affair with a white woman? >> the police know about that. >> two things. her husband found out about it and initiated and was a bad mother having an affair. end and we have a history of not being with our legacy of racial inn ab tlity particularly in the soutks there was a longstanding fear and resumption of dangerousness and ticaild that gets assigned to men of color involved with white women. and the same issue ended at penathay until the 1970s dominated by this fear 87% of p inple executed from vol35 to 1lv2 by african theymerican convict of raping white women sometimes under very weak evidence.

that narrative was part of a context that made it possible for l to h enforcement officers to demonize them. >> when you look at the 200 plus on death row and alabama are you fighting to end the death penalty? >> for me was a question as an issue that has to be answered by asking the question. not the people deserve for the crimes they did it, we have to ask do we deserve to kill. in my view in the united states we do not have the criminal son stice system that is reliable sufficiently fair to be carrying inut the death penalty. i would like to stop the death penalty in all cases. we have a criminalson dustice system that chileats you better if you are rich and guilty than if you are einor and innocent, a system compromised by a system that is politicized. we make a lot of mistd. hes. m> fillan is not the only

innocent person who was convicted and sentenced to death. we had one ie socent person exonerated for every ten people -- it is shameful, and nobody would fly but we tolerate that error in the context so i don't think we should be executing people in this counchily with the unreliability and and fairness we have. you don't have to be morally opposed to the death penalty to determine if it is not appropriate here. >> a einint from the book "just mercy: a story of justice and rede3 c1 stion," who said capital punishment means men without capital get the punishment. >> and amazing l to hyer by the name of steve wright, the director of a group called the southern center for human rights. i was a young law student, i wasn't sure i wanted to be a l to hyer. i was a philosophy major in college and it awhile to realize they were paying the for philosophy when i graduated. i was struggling, didn't know what to do.

i went to l to h school because you out on't have to know anything to go to law school and i was uncertain until i met steve to was a passionate believer providing legal services to p inple on death row and was the begie sing of an education change my world view. my sense of what is i3 c1 sortant my priorities as a l to hyer and yes, he said without the capital punishment, we have a system where weathah matters more than culpability and that is tragic and we see it time and time again. >> how long does it take to get around? >> we started inia.

slementson dustice. >> tell of us about the case. and not going to bring uabl-- >> what if anything happened. so actually just yesterday we got a ruling. convicted convicted of two murders in birmingham in

1980 and he was innocent but could not get the legal help that he needed. the state said they found the gun that matched these two murders. he needed a gun expert but could not get one. his >> a civil engineer was blind in one eye and to be his expert and he was convicted and sentenced to death. he was on death row for 28 years. what we do is challenge these convictions, we presented evidence from a nationally recognized experts that this gun was not a match. new evidence showed he was locked in a warehouse at the time of the crime 15 miles away, checked in security guards there. we have been fighting to get his relief, it was one step closer to getting home. it was a tremendous challenge

and shifted and prefer fidelity over fairness and what we see in a lot of these cases, and we will not look at this evidence of buyers we want to get to a final outcome which is execution. and the capacity to impose fair and reliable punishment and we expos that. they got a ruling from them. and the kind of work we produce and we tried to work on these cases developing children very involved in that. the u.s. has 50,000 people an adult prison cells for crimes they committed as children and we have 10,000 children on any given day 17 and younger in an adult jail in prison or five times more likely to be convicted of sexual assault, more likely to commit suicide,

3,000 children condemned to die in prison. we have a challenge, we want a couple cases that the supreme court on that issue but a lot more work to do. >> the state of alabama colleges it up to them to retry him? >> yes. the court has ordered he is entitled to a new trial and the state will have to make a decision whether to provide that trial or not. we are hoping -- i don't think there's any question he is innocent so we will be calling on the district attorney to dismiss these charges. all of us would benefit if we had prosecutors and judges and law enforcement officers we have a political culture in this country when people feel like they had given away too much power when they acknowledged they made a mistake. that is tragic. it leaves us vulnerable to error after error for the people of alabama.

the prosecutors of alabama make an informed responsible decision we made a mistake, we will see what they do. >> there are people watching this interview saying some people probably deserve -- there is something there. >> i wish that with the case but the truth of it is we have close to 150 innocent people, it is hard to prove somebody innocent not because they aren't innocent but we have a system where you don't get a lawyer, you don't get the resources, we are very cynical, very decisive. the evidence of innocence was dramatic and overwhelming and i wish i could tell people this isn't as bad as i am saying. i think it is much worse. i don't think there has ever been a time in american history with more innocent people in jail and prison including death row than we do today.

the procedures and heat and regard, fair and reliable process and blowing it in my opinion when i started my career 30 years ago. you see things in terms of rushing these cases to trial. so unfortunately these are men and women just like anybody looking at this program who don't have the resources to protect themselves if they are ever unfairly or wrongly accused and that is the the threat. these people were accused of something they didn't do it turned into a nightmare. most people think it is not possible but i have seen it too often. >> "just mercy: a story of justice and redemption" is the name of the book. how is the equal justice initiative? >> we rely on private donations individual donors, we are a nonprofit organization we have a web site and we look for people who share our concerns

about fair justice and we rely on their work. >> you are a macarthur genius fan. >> we were really interested in changing -- we have been doing a lot of work on racial history. this would condemn people for strategies, do our work in a way that is kind of client centered where we meet the needs of the clients, we go to communities and talk to people but i have been very encouraged by that recognition. >> how many cases are you working on? >> we have over a hundred cases we are actively working on. we have 200 kids that we are representing and a couple dozen other film rights and reform cases we are managing at this point. >> what is the significance of the had courted in montgomery, alabama? >> it is a very rich history, the cradle of the confederacy and the place where many of the

most infamous battles of the civil rights movement took place but it is also a place that could be a really important turning point in our conversation about race. i am really prepared the we haven't done a better job confronting racial inequality. this country never dealt with the legacy of slavery. at the end of slavery slavery in america wasn't about just labor. was a myth behind it and ideology behind it and the ideology wasn't addressed by the twenty-second amendment. it turned into something else. the reconstruction in world war ii you saw african-americans dominated by binging and violence and terrorism but we didn't talk about that. that terrorism supported the jim crow segregation and the humiliation of african-americans, it was part of my education, could go to public schools and i saw my

parents humiliated by these laws. forced to submit themselves to this racial hierarchy. we haven't talked about that. there is a presumption of danger and guilt that hurt people so we have got to do some work and montgomerie is as great a place as any to do that work. we have been there in the middle of the slave period in the 1840s and 50s, we word there during the terrorism era i am hoping we will be in the current era when we get a change and talk about these issues. agreed truth and reconciliation that create a healthier environment for all americans. is my hope we can do better to overcome the legacy of racial inequality. >> a lot of first-time authors, michelle ng alexander tracy kidder, desmond tutu, blurred mr. j the back of their books. >> desmond tutu calling you america's -- i feel really

honored and fortunate to be encouraged by extraordinary people like that. i have been energized i was very ambivalent. i am not sure it was the good use of time but i have been really energized by what i have heard and seen from people really encouraged. >> host: john grisham on the front of your book. >> guest: a wonderful lawyer from mississippi and he knows a lot about these courtrooms and counties that i work in every day and every year of my career. >> host: bryan stephenson "just mercy: a story of justice and redemption" is the name of the book. we won't tell the ending. walter mcmillan, you want to see it, pick up the book for yourself. thank you for being on booktv. >> booktv is on facebook. like us to get publishing news scheduling updates behind-the-scenes pictures and

video, author information, talk about authors during live programs. facebook.com/booktv. >> tell me about the golden hour. what is and how did you come to write it? >> the golden hour is a thriller about crisis manager at the state department cast to respond when there is a coup in west africa. a close american ally has been deep posed. figure out what happened and fight through washington bureaucracy. it was inspired by my time as deputy assistant secretary of state for west africa under secretary condoleezza rice. when i left government i wanted to tell the story about these sausage machine of american foreign policy and what is america doing in places like west africa? when there's a crisis american

policymakers make decisions during crisis time and how do they fight with each other which is how lot of decisions get made. i decided it would be more fun to do that as a thriller that as another policy book so i wrote the golden hour. >> how much does art reflect real life and the story? >> what happened there was funny. i wrote the book, or regionally inspired by a real coup in 2008 in mauritania when i was the convoy. i set the novel in molly because i thought americans came over from timbuktu everybody knows it was timbuktu and six weeks after i finish the first draft of the book molly had a real coup. i really didn't expect it. it happened. it helps me get a publisher like platinum books set in africa but a little bit of reality

following fiction. >> any plans to actually write nonfiction accounts of your time in the state department? >> about african economics, and u.s. relationship with africa. i am doing four books in the judd reichard series about state department crisis managers set in zimbabwe about an election going back. there was an aging dictator trying to cling to power and it is about cuba. >> thank you for your time. >> now on booktv, michael aaron rockland talks about his experience as a navy medic taking care of u.s. navy and marine mental patients in yokosuka japan. this is about an hour and 20.

>> michael aaron rockland has been a member of our club for 27 years. he is a past member of the board of governors for seven years and as many of you know he lives a block away over here, which was the scene and principles set for a merrill street movie titled one true thing in 1998. because of that proximity the club benefited from the filming of that particular movie because this mansion was used to support the cast and crew of their meals and other administrative needs of the club was able to recoup some money in the neighborhood of $20,000 which was a significant contribution to the club during some difficult financial times. was very fortuitous that that helped sustain the club. during the years as a member of the club michael has written nine of his 14 books and each time he represents his latest book to his friends and

neighbors at the club. with general public appearances. that is what i am doing in the special appearance. we are not busy writing. michael is a husband, a father and professor of american studies at rutgers university. on a personal note i read three of professor rockland's books and enjoy each of them. this book, "navy crazy," is a most personal and colorful account and i can especially relate to it on three personal levels across three generations of my own family. my father served in the united states navy as of hospital corpsman at the end of world war ii and worked it tweet in the hospitals one in new york city and one in san diego and he used to tell me stories about what that work was like. and he was the first one to tell me about the right way, the

wrong way, and the navy way. for myself i served as an officer in the united states navy for many years across three decades. i can tell you the navy i serve in is not the navy michael aaron rockland served in when he was on duty in japan but some things are familiar. when i was a young junior officer of once had to deal with a young sailor who jumped overboard in an attempt to end his own life. i remember talking to him afterwards and he kept saying all he wanted to do was go away and join the circus and i remember at the time thinking it helped me understand that some people are just not cut out for military service. lastly my only son, eric, is currently serving on active duty in the u.s. navy assigned to an aircraft carrier based out of japan. eric is a combat veteran of the war in afghanistan and he has

had many experiences around the world but i can also tell you that the navy he is serving in today doesn't look like anything like the navy i served in. one of the important take aways for me from this book is that it was a stark reminder that we as americans need to do more for all those who serve in the armed forces. is specially those returning from arduous combat school is trying to adjust to normal life in the united states and harder still if they are recovering from there wounds whether visible or invisible. i am thinking now about the story in the book about korean war veteran marine gunnery sergeant michael talked about in his book when he was in japan. and today as howard schultz, the ceo of starbucks is quoted saying in the new york times the government does a very good job of sending our people to work and not a very good job bringing them home.

the recent stories of walter reed hospital and the veterans administration come to mind. i sincerely hope we will strive to do better for all those americans who have given some of much, risked so much and in doing so much. with that is my honor to give you our own teacher, swimmer, and author and fellow navy veteran, professor michael aaron rockland. [applause] >> you thanked everybody i was going to think. i think i will add thank you to all of you for coming and as tom said, i have been talking all over the world but what i enjoy most is what i did here just the most fun. not sure wasn't the navy column because i never got out of a

ship. i was flown to japan, i was a medic and spent the entire active duty time in the psychiatric ward which sort of gives the name to the book. i was drafted into the navy after i finished college and then went to japan. i was trained as a medic but never used any of that training because it was all what do you do with battlefield wounds and that sort of thing. not only was i assigned to a psychiatric ward there were two psychiatric wards, would be 1 and ward 2. what i am talking about i will use the language of the day rather -- to give you a sense of the culture of the navy or the

war i was in. one was the open ward for kids who got a dear john letter from their girlfriend or had an anxiety attack, people who would go back to duty. it looked like a submarine almost. very tight, very dangerous and i will talk about that danger and what might experience meant to me. [inaudible question] >> i am on this mike. you want this one too? [laughter] >> you are good. >> okay. i will come up this way. i remember going down able bit

of history. i went to the induction center. the famous induction center on whitehall street in lower manhattan. this is the place made famous by all of guthrie in his song and his movie alice's restaurant. i remember after i went through the physical and psychological stuff, he sent me down where a hundred of us -- somebody came in and in five minutes i heard the f word. i had never heard it in my life put together until that time. it was my introduction. i don't know what i was expecting. i was expecting on behalf of president eisenhower, something like that. i thank you for your service. immediately.

i would have liked to play the star spangled banner. it was really something. i went to boot camp and open to japan. when i use the word magic, the technical term is hospital corpsman, but a little obscenity, we were actually called at projectors -- pepper checkers in case you didn't know that because of the prevalence of gonorrhea. there wasn't much gonna react in a psychiatric ward. not sure i did much of the pepper checking if you will. the book begins with a quotation from the german philosopher

nietzsche. when there was peace the warlike man attacks himself. that is instructive because it was peace time. this was after korea before vietnam. hospital was essentially empty in yokosuka japan. the psychiatric wards where both full to overflowing. i always wondered if there may be something the use of the word ptsd pre traumatic stress disorder. if i could describe a typical patient, when it comes to mind who is important because later on i will tell you how he tried to kill me. he was a marine. by the way the navy, in case you don't know if this, has a separate unit in the military, a separate branch, the navy takes care of marine medicine. and navy chaplain also serves

marines. otherwise the marines are on their own. there used to be a soldier aboard ships. that is why they are called marines. anyway, you want to know why did we have so many people in this place and one thing i want to say, i want to say a word about memoir. i am talking about something that happened half a century ago. age 20 to 22. this would be true in a memoir about today. and in a sense, what is the memoir, is what the writer chooses to remember and i suspect if any of the guys were there when i was there, read

this book, hope they are alive and that they do and i hope i hear from them and i am almost certain they would write to me, that is where it was. in a way, you could argue that a memoir is much if not more about the person's nature, the person who wrote about what happened because what choice does this person make, to put us into a book. a typical patient a marine, much decorated soldier in korea. purple heart other decorations and now he is in but japan and has nothing to do. we were no longer the occupying power.

we signed a peace treaty with japan in 1951 which took effect in 52. when i got there years later we were guests of japan. we were not the occupying power. this guy hated it in japan because there was nobody to kill. off the base he had to wear civilian clothes and could carry 45 off the base. so he started to go a little nuts. if you walk into a yokosuka count there were women available for a dollar in the end. you could go down an alley and get a shot of heroin for $0.75 or on the base, you could go to the p x, for a buck and a quarter, this guy was doing all three round-the-clock. still wasn't in trouble until he took a loaded 45 and held it up

against the 4 have another marine. that is when they sent him to us. a word about the title "navy crazy". i don't think the u.s. navy is crazy. i am simply describing that part of the navy's that fortunately or unfortunately the only part that i really came to know. this was a very strange and dangerous place, scary place and that is all i really experienced. i am somewhat grateful to the navy. i grew up in those two years. i think i was pretty nice event in some ways this book, a coming of age book, huckleberry finn etc.. kind of a coming of age book

really. i was very naive when i got there. first story in the book, really, is an example of that. there was a kid i liked very much because he was interested in literature and wanted to be a writer and i wanted to be a brighter and we would talk all day when it was time i should say, to talk and what is he doing? there is nothing the matter with him. he is senior than i am. saner than the psychiatrist that we had that is for sure. so i approached the captain who was the head shrink and i said i think we have made of mistake. goldsmith there is nothing the matter with him. are you psychiatrist? i said no sir. he said mind your own business.

then i began to notice whenever the food court came on the board, he never got up and got any food. he always had a cup of coffee in his hand and smoking cigarette. people smoke indoors than and i said you are all little skinny. you might want to get some fruit. no, i get a lot to eat. like what? about 50 a day. 51? 60 cups of coffee. i didn't even bring coffee so i didn't know what 60 cups of coffee could do to you. get some nourishment. anyway, i have a lot of them. about four packs. four packs of what?

cigarettes. i said do you sleep at night? every fourth night i sleep a little bit. anyway, it sort of went on from there except i said to him we are pretty friendly do me a favor. one 9 come on the ward for the p.m. shift tell me what you had for lunch. will you do that for me? he said sure, mike. we are friends. so i came on the board the next day and he was all aglow and said i had something else to eat. what did you have? razor blades. razor blades? he said i swallowed it, four razor blades. how do you swallow razor blades? you break them in half. i thought he was making this up but we took him to x-ray and sure enough he had eight have of razor blades in his stomach.

we took him to surgery. if it went further on he was going to die. i was so naive. i put that story in front because it underscore is how young and naive i was because he seemed perfectly sane but he obviously wasn't and this was quite a lesson to me i think. five different kind of patients on the board, we had murderers, a lot of murderers, they were there for observation by psychiatrists moving to testify at their trials. if they murdered another marine or another sailor they would be court-martialed. if they had murdered somebody japanese they would be tried in japanese court but neither case would psychiatrists testify at their trial.

there is very little to lose. they were really scary. you didn't want to turn your back even if he seemed like a perfectly nice guy. we had suicides, and successful ones. almost invariably guys would cut both wrists, cuts straight across if you cut straight across you will bleed much slower. if you pack at an angle you have had it. you will probably bleed to death before they could surgically repair you. and these guys went straight across and walked around with great big bandages on their hands as if they were boxers getting ready to put on their gloved.

we have schizophrenics and paranoids, really sick people, and for example, it sounds pretty grim so far but people who reviewed the book so far say it is hilarious at the same time which i am glad of. one of the chapters in the book is called the two geniuses because there were two guys in the board of both claimed to be jesus at the same time and they were very antagonistic to each other and very competitive and always trying to beat each other up. we had to separate them. one time i got punched in the nose and was bleeding all over my white uniform. that was not so much fun. we had catatonics.

they were the guys who took our time. by the way, we had pet names for people, i am not proud of these names and i would never use them today. catatonics were referred to, not just by medics but psychiatrists as well, were referred to as veggies or cats. they took most of our time because they just sat there and you had to feed and dress them and clean them and anticipate -- tried to anticipate when they might have to go to the bathroom because you had to get them to the bathroom when they had to get to the bathroom. there was serious difficulty to

take off my navy uniform when you get in the shower and putting them in the shower when i was in the shower with them. catatonics probably took two steroids of our time. the final group of patients didn't belong in the ward at all. who would have to spin in the 1950s? anybody got any ideas? gays were in our ward. not only considered sick, that was when the navy was being charitable. also, quote, criminals according to the universal code of military justice at that time and i am really ashamed that i was part of that whole thing. i never given a moment that fought. i guess i grew up in a sheltered way in some ways. i literally had never heard of

homosexuality. i had trouble with that. so i didn't know there was such people which may sound amazing to you because kids today at 10 years of h.r. perfectly aware of this. i learned this in the war and they were the pariahs. how else could i put it? murderers got more respect than they got. was the way it was. by the way in terms of names, i said we used names which i would never use these days, were for long time afterwards would never have used them, the

schizophrenia or call whack jobs. the catatonic as i said before called veggies or cats homosexuals were called faggots. i want to share with you later the fact it and the cardinal. i tell the reader at the beginning of the book i will use the language we used back then. i apologize to the reader in my introduction. that evokes the cultures of the war at the time. was a very strange place, certainly seems strange looking back on it at this time. i think you might agree. my first day on the board, there was a patient who had of 45 rpm

record of the great songs of that year blueberry hill, do you remember is that? nobody was going to find that ward. what -- he would get to the end of three minutes, picked up and put it on again and again and it was on every waking hour and finally -- was my first day and finally some patients started to say to me this guy is driving us crazy. you got to do something about it so i went to him and said you think you can give that song a rest? he looked at me really malevolently and i thought well, pure hatred. i said why don't you let me hold the record for a while and i reached out like this and he

turned at me like a vicious dog and bit my arm. i couldn't believe it. my very first day i had to go to the emergency room of the hospital and get six stitches in my arm. this was really something that this would happen that day. the next day proved just as eventful my second day my second day a patient escapes from the ward. what i didn't know was there had been other escapes and that the crew -- we had a crew, there were four of us, we worked together. all four of us together, three of us on p.m. and three on night duty but wheat -- those with the three guys i worked with at all times and and a patient that

escaped from the board, we knew this because laundry called us and said we think we got one of yours down here. he had gotten into the laundry cart and gotten out of the ward and pushed to the laundry and luckily we got him back but the captain found out about it and said somebody has to pay for this. by 0700 tomorrow why want a name or names of those responsible for this guy getting out of the award. said three guys i was on duty with, one got pounded he absolutely hated the patients hit them. molly barker was a short chubby black kid was the one i got to be friends with and who was involved in saving my life twice

and my thing is and then a life her meaning he was a regular navy guy, they were enlistees and i was the one draftee. they hated -- not them -- they hated that i was a draftee because i was always -- they got enough enlistees in that particular month they were not getting enough. they didn't like the fact that i was drafted and a college grad and i didn't want to go to a c s so all those things were against me but anyway, when we went off duty at 3:00 we had been on the a.m. shift 7-3. the senior among us, let's go down by at the harbor and talk about this and we went down there and he said okay you touched the laundry cart at some

point? i said i touched the laundry cart. i was cleaning up the beds. i put the dirty sheets and the laundry cart. anybody else touched a laundry cart? the other guys, two guys didn't say anything. we all touched the laundry cart. i put sheets in sayre later obviously. he said you are going to have to take the rap. i said this is not fair. i wasn't even here when the other guys this kate. how come i have to take the rap? this is wrong. and he said as tom taught us earlier, there is the right way, the wrong way, and the navy way and this is the navy way. why don't you regarded as your initiation, he said. i said jesus, this seems a --

you will punish all four of for one of us so you are doing us kind of a favor. .. that experience was extraordinary and i was just

simply going to take the rap. i must say the rest of the time i was in the navy and forever afterwards i always wondered why can't the right way and the navy way be the same way. [laughter] the chapter in a book called friendly fire and that's familiar with that term. that's when you are killed by your own. not necessarily on purpose by any means but you got into the crossfire something and you got shot but by your own people. and that's the chapter in which i risk getting killed by about that much. the first one was a fraud man

and by the way let me introduce you to somewhere my publishers. john and jody hanson who are back there who have published the three most recent of my books and who supported me so well all these years. in fact john was the one who when i had put in the book that this guy was a navy s.e.a.l. john said there were no navy s.e.a.l.s back then. navy s.e.a.l.s came along and 62 with kennedy. we did have udp's underwater demolition technicians and they were what we would call familiarly fraud man at the sky was a fraud man. this guy was so strong and so agile. he did something one day i thought he was -- i was hallucinating. he walked on the wall and i don't know what was keeping him on there.

this guy was incredible. he disappeared and we wondered where he was. we looked all over and he wasn't there. i happened to notice in the head the navy word for bathroom, in the head that the vent in the ceiling was a little bit askew. how he got up there 14 feet up i didn't know that and we couldn't figure it out but he somehow got up there. so we got a stepladder and i got on top of the stepladder and kept yelling his name. his name by the way was joe lewis smith and he was named after the boxer joe lewis. he wanted to recall joe lewis alda time. he wouldn't answer to any other name. so i yelled down the fence, you know the tubes the same sort of thing we used to have in our houses forced air heating.

i kept yelling down there joe lewis are you you down there? you down there? are you you down there? do you down there? i may hurt somebody laughing. i had a flashlight but i couldn't see him. he had gone into one of the side fence. i said look you've got to come out of there. he said wouldn't and couldn't. i said why couldn't? he said because i can't turn around in here. kreegel is saying to me why don't you go after him. [laughter] not only that he may be just fit but also it was filthy with dust in there. i just imagine if i could get to where he was i would be face -- he'd be facing this way and i'd be right behind them. what good would that do? likely without a phonecall about five minutes later. we think there's one of yours up on the roof and sure enough he had gone through the pipes and

then dropped down onto the staircase. he had gone up on the roof so i went outside and i said hey you got to come down. he said on a common down down. so we said aren't you hungry? >> said the i. i said how about i bring you some breakfast? that's great. so we went into the mess hall and had to condense the chef to make all kinds of things he had asked for and then we went up there. mark was trailing me. we didn't want them to know joe to know that i have backups such as it was. and i knocked on the door. is that you? yeah. anybody with you? no and he opened the door. he added bolted in some kind of play and open out onto this very flat roof and i noticed there

was no parapet around at all. it was just flat. so i sat down and i gave him his food and i sat down. then after he ate breakfast i said something that got him angry. he said look we have got to go down to the ward now. are you trying to tell me i'm crazy? oh no i'm not trying to tell you you were crazy but we have got to go down to the word. are you going to take me down to the ward? i can't really take you down to the ward. you have to calm that you're on well but i think we have to go. something i forgot what it was, he just jumped on me and got me in a double headlock and started to walk me towards the edge of the roof. that's the only time in my life fortunately i've ever yelled help. i had to yell help any other time. perhaps some other occasion but i go help.

he came running at full speed and knock this guy off me whereupon he was on his knees and barker was on his knees. he got barker and a double headlock and started to inch him towards the edge of the roof. i'm standing there and i don't know what to do. this guy was going to throw barker off the roof and then throw me off the roof. he could have thrown us both off the roof together. he was just a strong. i didn't know what else to do and finally it's funny it made me sick to think of it but you we hear so much about concussions these days. i must have given a concussion that last a lifetime because i went and dropped kicked him in the head with all my might. i didn't know what else to do and it knocked him out. we put them in a straitjacket and took him downstairs. at the other attempt on my life was the attempt by the marine that i mentioned earlier.

that's a part of want to share with you. i was on night duty with wally barker and night duty was kind of great because you didn't have to do anything. 11:00 to 7:00. the ward was dark and the patients were sleeping and all you had to do was stay awake. so i would sit up in front of the ward and we had a desk. wally and i would sit up and we would talk and read books and while he talked about how he wanted to go to college one day. he wanted to be a doctor actually. i hope he became one. i don't know. wally so that got to go down to the head. okay and i went on reading my book you know. and then it happened and i want to read this little bit about it

so you get a sense of the way the book sounds. and by the way the light from the desk is in my eyes. i can't see anything. the ward is dark and i can't see anything. suddenly someone had been -- made by the neck from behind. i fought to pull his hands off my throat but they were big hands and strong. my struggles were useless and i could make a sound. i remember thinking this is it i'm going to die before wally gets back from the head. i'm going to -- and that's all i remember and tell wally was saying easy mike, stop it. i was no longer on a platform in which the desk stood for 20 feet away. i was on top of somebody and repeatedly banging his head against the wooden deck. i had -- this would be called a deck in the navy. i had a hold of his ears and i was using them as handles to smash his head against the floor

as hard and as fast as i could. stop that mike wally yelled. he will kill him. he turned on the overhead lights in the front of the word. i had no memory of how i got them off of me and how we ended up 20 feet away from the platform. i got up. my heart was pounding and i was freezing. my teeth were chattering. what happened while he asked. i don't know i replied. i was reading and suddenly i'm being strangled. how did you get him off of you? i haven't a clue. he was choking me at the desk in the next thing you are telling me to stop banging his head against the floor. i don't know how i got him off me or how we handed over were here. a drill and wally said. one minute i'm being strangled in the next i'm banging that guys head against the floor no memory of how he and i change places. by the time while they came along he wasn't killing me. i was killing him.

if you are going to save me again can't you get your little sooner? i was while he said. [laughter] i have been totally out of control. that experience for the first and only time in my life what it is to be insane. i started giggling and then i started crying and i was still freezing. get me a blanket please wally i said. wally got me a blanket and said, you are in shock. yeah i said tell me about it. all i wanted was to go off somewhere by myself and cry for a long time. i wonder what the navy had done with me had i killed gunny. would they have believed me when i said gundy attacked me? maybe they thought i attacked him. either way if i killed him would have been murder manslaughter manslaughter, self-defense? how would i be able to prove self-defense by having no memory of how we got to the floor all that distance away. it would help in any judicial

proceeding not to mention that my only witness was wally and he hadn't seen gunny strangling me. he had only seen me smashing gunny's head against the dead. we have to do something about gunny who was looking around. so we put them into a straitjacket and family called x-ray and said you have to come get this guy. you have to x-ray him. gun he said, what did i do? he tried to kill me that's what you did i say. you strangled me. why would i strangle you? you are not the enemy. i wondered if i enemy he meant the japanese are the koreans are white. i had no idea what he meant by the enemy. there is no enemy i said. no enemy he said? how can there be no enemy? there's got to be an enemy. it was if -- as as if this will exist and dependent dependent on

having an enemy. without an enemy life had no meaning to him. no enemy? so sad. i almost felt sorry for him. so we sent him down to x-ray and x-ray brought them back and said he didn't have a fracture but as i said i'm sure i gave him one hell of a concussion. i have always thought in recent years about football injuries and stuff, did i send this guy into dementia at a very early age? i don't know. i will just never know. downey had come back from x-ray and he had a bandage on one of his ears. he looked like vincent van gogh after he cut off part of his ear. how did the ear happened he asked. i got a dual report. wally and i shrugged. before the a.m. crew came on

duty we got gunny out of his cell. he seemed foggy about the events of the night. i was a bit foggy about them myself. there's a tiny part of me maybe 1% that has always wondered whether i might have attacked him whether than him attacking me. no i told myself, that's ridiculous. but there'll always be that tiny smidgen of doubt. how did i ever get this big guy off of me? three days later gunny was sent back to the united states manacled to a guard. i wasn't sorry to see him go. he nearly killed me but he and i have experienced the ultimate together life-and-death thing so i felt a strange kinship with him. i doubted he would remember me but i would never forget him. wally said, he will be all right. nobody will care that he once pointed a gun at another marine in strangled you pretty wouldn't surprise me because of his record in korea they give him an honorable discharge.

he's got a purple heart. he got nicked in korea. not much more than a mosquito bite with three stitches. i got wounded more by the blueberry hill kid six stitches and gunny almost kills me but he's the one with a purple heart. that's right, while he laughed. there are no purple hearts for friendly fire. i want to share to other little parts of the book with you. we learned that cardinal spelman, if you remember that name is very famous cardinal in new york city and he had an extra title called the vicar of the orient. he would come to visit the u.s. bases in the far east once every two years. he was coming to a yokosuka and

coming to the hospital and the psychiatric wards. so the captain said he really have to spruce things up. the cardinal is coming. he wasn't worried about -- but he was worried about what to do with the patients on our ward. so he said look here's what we are going to do. the catatonic skip them standing up by their beds and use three bathrobe belt one across the knees the one across the waist and one across the chest and you tie them to their racks. these were double-deckers steel beds. just have them standing there tied to the bed. the murderers and the whack jobs you give them a shot of thorazine about half an hour before the cardinal comes. thorazine.

you couldn't kill a fly or an aunt on floor is seen. and then we said well okay so that takes care of them them. suicides? he said have them put their hands behind their backs. i don't want the cardinal to see bandages on their hands. have them put their hands behind their backs. so we got this already and then we said what about the flag it's it's -- he said i don't think we have to do anything about them sir. we have got to do something about them. anyway five minutes before he arrives on our ward we know he's upstairs and is coming down in five minutes before the phone

rings and create answers the phone and he says, it's for you rock, it's the captain. oh what have i done a now? it wasn't something i had done. it was something he wanted me to do. rock had he whispered. he always called me rock head. [laughter] i finally decided what to do about the faggots. take them into the backyard and play basketball with them. i don't want the cardinal know when we have such disgraceful people on our ward. porter wasn't worried about the cardinal knowing about the murders but he was worried about the. but sir i protested i was looking forward to meeting the cardinal. i have never met a cardinal before. porter answered me, you are jewish. you don't have to meet the cardinal. [laughter] but what about the faggots?

i think orion and garcia are catholics. certainly they should meet the cardinal. he's a cardinal he would know porter said. i don't have the time to talk about this. someone has to get the faggots up the word and i might as well be you. but look porter is, this is a direct order. get the faggots outside and do it now. so that's what i did. i got the basketball out and out there was an exercise yard with offense 14 feet high with barb wire on top of that. we could be out there anytime he wanted to be. i got the basketball out of the cabinet and one of of the shrinks offices and call the names of the faggots and told them they were to follow me outside. they were outraged. we want to see the cardinal. how come everyone gets to see the cardinal but ask? i had no answer to that. i was angry enough that i didn't

get to see the cardinal. we have a decent basketball game going, to want to. my team at a certain advantage because i wasn't wearing slippers. we were ahead 8-4 when the backdoor of the backdoor of the ward opened an creek said you can come in now, the cardinal is gone. i later learned that the cardinal passed rapidly through the word blessing everyone. he hadn't been in the ward for more than five minutes. the captain made a point of thanking me for making sure cardinal spelman hadn't been up as exposed to elements on neuropsychiatric too. we just assumed he didn't know about it. it would be decades before i learned the truth about spelman. magazine stories reported he had routinely preyed upon young priest who knew their progress the church ranks dependent on going along with the cardinal and his habits. he also carried on with chorus boys sending his official limo

at night to pick them up after the shows ended in bringing them to the rectory around the corner from st. patrick's cathedral there in new york city. one journalist wrote in his book the american pope which was a book about spelman, quote spelman was one of the most notorious power pole and voracious and american catholic church history. two of his best friends by the way were right colon and j. edgar hoover. i never thought of such things. in those days it was unthinkable that a priest much less the cardinal would be carrying on in this fashion while persecuting every chance he got. now we were used to the idea and much more. it was certainly not one of the key events in my life and it's one i'm certainly not private but i guess i do have the distinction of being the united states navy medic who detected

the famous francis cardinal spelman from exposure to the gays on the ward 1 into and yokosuka japan in 1957. in retrospect the guys probably needed more protection from the cardinal and he did from them. [laughter] and finally one other story that i want to share with you. there is a lot of humor in the book. there's a lot of violence in the book. the story is different because it's really a sad story. i did a program recently at the bookstore and some of the students were crying at the end of the story. if you want to cry you go right ahead because i might get a little wet in the eyes myself on this one. there was a kid on the ward who is a catatonic. i like this kid somehow and i

felt i'm going to leave here soon. i want to do one nice thing, one nice thing before i leave here. i want to feel a sense of accomplishment. i want to feel like it helped somebody. i had helped anybody. i was just trying to stay alive in that place and do my job but i never felt this sense of accomplishment. this guy was a catatonic. he had been a marine and he was very handsome and his chart said that he had probably been beaten up and rapes by other marines if you can believe this. i didn't know this was true or not. one of the reasons i like this kid was because he was the only catatonic disorder but you know when he had to go to the bathroom which really made a big difference in your life, i'll tell you. he would go like that and i would say come on andrew and so

i was naturally pleased by him. i wanted to help so i took the sox out loud if they put on his socks in the morning. socks i would say holding up one of his his socks and from his eyes. it was like teaching a baby to say his first word. maybe five days went by saying socks over and over and feeling a little foolish all the while. the guy was obsessed with socks. townsend thought i had lost it. what are you mumbling about he would say. what's with the socks thing? you sound like a section at yourself. you want to check yourself in here. one day when i was saying socks and her himself whispered it socks. yes i shouted. i tried to calm down. i didn't want to startle him. i didn't want him -- i did want

to get him off the bat -- path we had started on. i had to remember slowly. the next day i continued saying socks over and over and every once in while andrew would say it too and without that question mark i was happy, proud even. he was like my little son who just learned to say daddy. i had a million routine things to do with the other patients and they were such joy and hearing and are saying socks. each morning after that i would add something for a while as i put on one sock. i would say left sock and started to do the same thing with a rice sock and then left sock and right side. it sounded a little bit like a doctor seuss story but i wanted make sure andrew knew there were to socks and one went on his left foot and one on his right. i wanted him to digest the concept. i was so intent on the project with andrew that i asked the pm crew if i might remain in the

ward for an hour or so after we were relieved to work exclusively with andrew. be our guest bail said. one warned me that what i might get out of this volunteering with frustration and heartache. a long time ago i tried to do something right the southern medic said that it was a bust and now i just do my job. haven't you yet learned what navy stands for another would say? never again volunteer yourself. [laughter] the next day andrew said left sock without the question and a few minutes later he said right sock. it was working. i was having an effect on him. he still never said anything at the morning group therapy sessions nor did the flat expression on his face changed but he had begun its ascent from the depths and i was the one bringing him up.

when the canteen came on the ward that evening i bought andrew snickers bars ever were pretty was like giving a dog a treat because he had done something right. i fed it to him that at one point he took it out of my hand look at it quizzically and took a bite by himself. he was eating by himself eating something. the next time he said left sock, right sock i got him another candy bar. he held it in his hand uncertain what to do with it but when i unwrapped it he reached out and took it from me and make the whole thing himself. he got it all over his face and sat there with a chocolate beard and mustache until i got some damp paper towels from the head and pinned his face. then he did something i had never seen him do before. he smiled. it was a faint smile but it was still a smile. i smiled smile back and he looked at me a bit startled but didn't seem to smile again. he trusted me. i wondered whether he was ready to put on his socks.

the next day i handed him his socks but it does help them in his hand and looked at them and then he looked down at his feet. yes i said yes. he was thinking about it but he didn't do anything. he just held the sox and looked at his feet. he couldn't seem to completely connect the sox with his. finally i took the sox back from him and i put them on him. it went on that way for another day or so although i didn't want to rush things. i looked at andrew's chart and discovered he was due for evacuation back of the states. i was determined to have and are putting on his socks before he left. i owe that much to him. i kept handing him his socks but i also said andrew put on your socks. he would look at me with an almost pleading look in his eyes but he didn't say anything. he made no move to put on his socks but i thought the pleading was a plus. it meant that he wanted to put on his socks but he didn't know how.

his brain come his hands in his feet were all separate unconnected or connected by such thin wires that they carry just a trickle of current but his face would become more animated with each passing day. the total flatness was gone and there was a hint of a smile. it was as if they lie was on in his house. not all the lights come up with just one up in the attic but maybe i could help them turn on others. there were now only three days until he would be air and evacuated back to the u.s.. i was determined that before and are left i would have him putting on his socks so i kept saying on an true put on your socks but he just looked at me and sometimes he would smile but he didn't put on his socks. now there were only two days. i did my best not to show my frustration. inside i was feeling, put on your socks. on his last day on the ward something happened that hadn't happened before. i told him that this was his last day and i hope there's a

favor to me he would put on his socks. he seemed to be listening to me intently. his eyes were bright. his skin shiny with life as if his blood which had only circulated sufficiently to keep them alive was now speedily coursing through his body. his face glowed. more lights are coming on. he looked like a different person. come on and dry said, put on your socks. do it for me, please. this time when i held off the socks he met me halfway and took them out of my hand. he put one sock on the floor next to his right foot and the other next to his left foot. i was excited. ..

and ready to make a distinction between left and right. if i had told him which to put on first, he would have been okay. i had given him two things to do, not only put on the socks but the side which sought to put on first. he wanted me to tell him which sought to put on first and i gave him freedom of shoelace, something he wasn't ready for yet. freedom is treaty. there is often comfort in being told what to do rather than

being given a choice. that is why people join colts blew someone tells the what to do. that was my mistake with andrew. i put him in a position where he had to decide something. i drove him back to being a vegetable because he couldn't tolerate choice. surely there was no reason why putting on one sock first made more sense than putting on the other first but stressful complexity of some sort sent him into the safety of catatonia and i had driven him right back there. when i said it didn't matter which sock he put on first he had sunk like a stone. the next day they came for andrew. he was going to be put on a hospital plane with patients from all over corey and japan and he left in his pajamas and bathrobe. i stood by the door of the ward as he stumbled towards it. i hope for a sign of recognition, something,

anything a testimony to what we tried to do together but his face was flat, his eyes vacant as he passed me. he never looked at me. i had a great sense of loss the we were about the same age. i cared about him and agreed to invest. and the guy who hated all the patients, townsend who observed my efforts with andrew over the previous weeks and saw the sadness of my face now, you are vasari son of a bitch. all of which there was someone with whom i could share my sorrow about andrew. sorry was the only thing i was going to get. [applause]

>> thank you for that wonderful sampling of "navy crazy" and there's a lot more to it. i read it but hopefully it peaked your curiosity and your interests. now we have a few minutes for questions for michael. if anyone has questions i will bring over the microphone to you and we will do that. who is first? okay. >> since you are writing about things that happened decades ago did you keep journals them or diaries or is it just in your mind's i that you remember? >> not a word. i did not keep any journal at all. i had no idea one day i would want to write this book. my previous book was a memoir. while i was writing yet, all of a sudden i wanted to write this book while i was writing the book on spain. the previous book write-offs

about right here. i kept no records of it at all because i had no idea i was going to be a writer and i was going to write books. >> did you use the real names of people? >> that is the one thing i say in the beginning. but otherwise i have done my best to tell the truth. as i said at the beginning you remember what you choose to remember. even from five minutes ago or half a century ago. a certain portion in reading memoirs, there may be the ally hope there isn't a fictional element because you remember what you choose to remember.

>> could you tell us about or climb to the top of the washington bridge? [laughter] >> do you really want me to? for those who don't know, three books ago -- in the last chapter i had been to the top of the jersey tower in the elevator. they take you all the way down to the hudson and i use the mall the time to change light bulbs, spray rust paint, what ever. i had been to the top of the jersey tower and i asked to go to the top of the east tower and

they kept saying to me it has to be with you. i said by all means the e s u. i had no notion what that was but i figured i'd better go into it. finally they called one day, and said on the 26th of october which was after the 75st anniversary of the george washington bridge which i had been at the ceremony two days before and the next day, the day before, could i be there the next day the e is you would be there. so i showed up at the headquarters of the gw be and i said to you earlier what a shame my wrote this book, i can't have

bridgegate in it. i showed and there with four police waiting for me, who were part of the port authority police but they did not eat a lot of bonus. these guys were like army swat team guys or navy seals, they protect guys, why are these guys here? are you ready? sure. so we drove out quickly and they turned around just as you come a round there was an opening two guys got out of the car and they held up all the traffic cones so we could get our car through. there were all kinds of heavy weapons and bazookas heavy

machine guns, what is this? i just want to go up in the elevator. lucky i didn't know about this in advance or would never have done it. are we crazy? we didn't pull up by the towers they pulled up by where the giant cable coming down going through the upper story heading for the anchorage and i don't know what is going on and putting all kinds of things, pants harness, shoulder harness and velcro and snaps and a hard hat and all those things, and i don't need this. i don't need this. and then they open the gate which since 9/11 has been

enhanced with all sorts of other stuff on it including barbwire and a much higher gate because people use to get on all the time and jump off. so is it ok? do you want to go up? let's go. i just couldn't bring myself to say is this what i think it is? two got in front of me and the sergeant got behind me and the lieutenant behind him and we started to walk up the cable. if you jump off the upper level of the bridge, 225 feet that

will kill you because you pick up speed and by the time you had the water it is like concrete believe me having done it anybody can do it. but luckily, i brought with me, since 9/11 you are not supposed to take pictures on the bridge, i had in the pocket of my jacket one of those little things from the drug store so i was able to get a picture and handed it to the guys and they took the picture up there with all of manhattan looking in miniature form. that was a great adventure. >> do you have a favorite system? >> i would be afraid to do it because because all of this windier, something playing out this way, something playing out

this way with brass hooks and little cables that are waist high that a company you all the way up and you hooked on to them. you reach a stanchion holding up these cables and and hooked on the other side of the tension. i still thought what a finally held on by one of them and -- we pull you back up you would be hanging down there it wasn't very reassuring. we got up to the top in a helicopter kept circling us and port authority of new york or new jersey on the helicopter and i said to control what is that

for? forgot to tell him we were coming up here. the terrorists about to blow up the bridge, we got in and the door was locked, quote get inside the tower so the lieutenant got on his walkie-talkie and called fort lee his car was about that big coming out of fort lee not paying the toll and coming across the bridge with the simon screening and the lights on and pretty soon he came up the elevator. we stood there for 15 minutes just standing there. it was freezing up there by the way because it was the very windy day. it was 30 degrees colder up there than it had been. i wears and a light windbreaker and freezing.

anyway. a question about "navy crazy"? even though i love telling that story. >> thank you very much. it was very enjoyable. i wonder if you could tell us, has the passage of time specifically five decades, really made the life lessons that you learned in that book little bit more significant? could you appreciate what you were going through five decades ago as much as you appreciate it now? >> the answer is yes, i think so. but i appreciate it more now than i did then. i was counting the days to get the heck out of there to tell you the truth. i think the thing that did for me the most had nothing to do

with the navy. i got out of college very young, 19 years old. i turned 20 and i was drafted. if i had gone to graduate school i would have flunked out for sure. i was a lousy student as an undergraduate. i cared about swimming. i was toppled the swim team and girls. girls and swimming was all i cared about. when i got to grad school out of the navy i was hungry for education. the main thing the navy did for me, absolutely hungry for education. >> a story about what you did that guy, holding him by his peers second thoughts about engaging. >> okay. >> one more question.

>> while you were telling the story about the man with the sox -- socks, interesting you picked someone to help that was under that category. >> the story is called socks, used to say before. >> it speaks your feeling of isolation, the question to you is you have a population, talking about the gay population and i am thinking of you as young and educator man, did you feel inclined that you wanted to do something for that population, how could anyone help from if they were feeling displaced in terms of coping and what they were going through, i was curious to know what you could say about that. you picked this person who was catatonic as opposed to someone from the other category.

someone who might be displaced and might have done to help that population even though it is new to you. >> oh yes i did such and such, i didn't feel anything. half of my deposit is day. i have friends, it is a different world. that world, honest to goodness i understood the murderers better than i understood the gays. i had never heard of this before. i had never heard of -- that is my childhood--a house sheltered by child was in the bronx. i never learned anything about gay people. nobody ever came out of the closet then.

the entire dialogue we have come so far, so much to be proud of in this particular area. i sure didn't begin it zen not then. i would sit around talking with murderers. the guy got mad enough, he killed somebody. i almost killed gunny. i didn't understand the gay guys at all. i think i thought a mistake had been made. to my shame. i didn't believe there was such a thing. i really didn't. kids today, a ten years old will know. it was a totally different time. you wish looking back, many things in your life you wish you were smarter but i wasn't.

i just wasn't. >> curious about how did they go to that environment, they were not exactly the best. how did they cope with in that environment even though you didn't understand that you understood the murderers more do you recall your observations in terms of how they coped with that environment? >> one thing i didn't think about the gays is they got electroshock treatments. in the wisdom of the psychiatric community, and when the navy was being charitable they were sick. therefore, the hope was if they got electroshock treatment, that might get them to let girls instead of boys.

that was the world i had been living in and when they left japan they were court-martialed because they were criminals, quote,. and they% to leavenworth prison for two or three years. >> why would they considered triple -- criminals if they were mentally ill? >> i am not saying. they were, right there the only thing i got out of boot camp is they made you read that universal code of military justice. there is up whole chapter on homosexuality. and it said that this was the crime. it wasn't that you were different. the more different the world, the more differences we have in america is the greatest thing about this country but that is not where the navy was and not wear my head was at the time.

>> but criminal offense at that time to be a homosexual? >> it was a criminal offense not only in the u.s. but throughout the united states. >> the murderers, what about people suffering post-traumatic stress they were also -- >> no, no. no. the murderers, some of them ended up being hung. among the other patients the only other ones who got any punishment were the gays who were getting electroshock treatment. punishment for something you don't need but being sent to jail for two or three years and then they got there dishonorable discharges. it never occurred to me because of my ignorance at the time, i

never questioned it. if i had known then what i know now, i would have created a revolution in that place. i would have helped all the gays to escape. >> you might have been in leavenworth. >> i definitely would have ended up in leavenworth. okay. [applause] >> thank you for coming and you are all invited to refreshments in the back dining room and we invite you to talk with michael and steve e-book. thank you all. >> we will see you back there i hope. come get some wine and cheese.

>> every weekend booktv brings you 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2. keep watching for more television for serious readers. >> joining us on booktv is former health and human services secretary louis sullivan dr. louis sullivan. dr. sullivan, when did you decide to become a medical doctor? >> i was age 5. my father was a funeral director in southwest georgia and among others things provided ambulance service class for people to be transported to the doctor and my father would also ask me to go to help because at age 5 i was curious and i had a role model, one black doctor in cambridge south of blakely where we lived. from age 5 determined i wanted

to be like dr. griffin. he is very successful. highly respected in the community. people really thought he was a great citizen but to me he was a magician. he can't make people well. i decided that is what i wanted to do. that is what i decided at page 5. loved science loved workings with people. being the doctor combined both of those very well. >> in southwest georgia in the area, what were their race considerations you had to face? >> they were very difficult. my father was an activist. restarted chapter for the naacp in blakely 1937, my mother was a school teacher and the 20 years they lived in my mother never got a job in blakely teaching school. she had to drive 30 miles away to other accounts where she

worked as a teacher. in addition to the founding the naacp chapter, worked against the white primary that excluded blacks from participating and established an annual emancipation day celebration january 1st of every year and my parents sent me and my brother to atlanta to attend school because school for blacks in segregated rural georgia back in the 30s and 40s were not very good. all of that was a great imprint on me because my parents were committed to my brother and myself getting a good education. so i finished high school in atlanta went on to morehouse college and brought the university medical schools lawyer i graduated 1954 was the same year brown vs. board of education came out from the supreme court. when i graduated from college i

could not go to medical school enjoy a jug but i went to the university, did very well that was my first experience in 1954. when i went to boston, my first experience living in a non segregated society. i wonder how my classmates would accept me. the bottom line was i was accepted without any problems whatsoever. i had a great experience became class president finished third in my class and went to cornell and harvard for postgraduate training and ended pas on the faculty into 1975 my college alma mater recruited me back to atlanta from boston to found the school of medicine. that led to my meeting then vice president george bush, he spoke about the dedication of the building reconstructed in july of each to. i was lobbying him in 1988 for one of my trustees i thought would be a great secretary.

he reversed tables on me and asked me to serve as secretary. that is how i became secretary of health and human services louis >> what do you consider your biggest accomplishment during your ten years teaching? >> waging the war against tobacco use because tobacco use then and today is the number one preventable cause of death. i have nothing against executives in the tobacco industry except their product kills people and as a physician come as the nation's health secretary my responsibility is to do everything i can to protect please survey and enhance the health of the american people so we were very successful, we waged an effort against r.j. reynolds when they were going in january of 1990 to introduce a new cigarette in philadelphia called uptown. it so happened at the time i was

speaking in pennsylvania so my speech included an attack against r.j. reynolds producing this cigarette and and i was in there for many months. they surprised me because we to months later they announced they were not proceeding with this new cigarette they were going to test but other things i am proud of introduced a new food label to let people know more about the foods they are eating and the impacts they have and thirdly introducing more diversity into the department. the first woman to head the national institutes of health and the only woman, dr. bernadine healy who are recommended for appointment. and social security, gwendolyn king someone else. i wanted to change the culture of the department. >> a quick few minutes with dr.

louis sullivan, "breaking ground" is the name of his autobiography, my life in medicine. the forward is by andrew young. you are watching booktv on c-span3. >> as the year winds down any publication that putting together their best books list for 2014 and here are some of toronto's globe and mail selections. conrad black talk about canada in rise to greatness. and modern technology has rearranged inequality instead of reducing it. also on the list is french economist's report on wealth and income inequality in europe and the united states. next in this changes everything naomi klein comments on climate change and free market economics and glen greenwald recounts his experience with ed snowden and the nsa in no place to hide. >> to meet the real lesson of ed snowden and what he did, which i hope everybody in the world

walks away no matter what their ideology or their prospective the learning and thinking about that he was this incredibly ordinary, powerless person. ..