weaken than weigh and balance it as you instructed us to do? >> i think that's a reasonable question, certainly. >> thank you. secretary of last time you were with us we not only discuss the most recent arb recommendations that we went back but we went back and highlighted some from the past and one in particular from 1999 said the secretary of state should take a personal and active role in carrying out responsibilities ensuring diplomatic personnel security abroad. .. secretary, just in case someby missed that part of the 1999 arb, the authors reiterated that point with this. the secretary of state should personally review the security situation of embassies and other

official premises, closing those which are highly vulnerable and threatened. to previous arb recommendations that you could essentially lay on top of one another. they are identical. and i don't think they're identical because they forgot that they put the first one. i think they're identical because they were trying to send a message to ,this >> >> so i specifically want to ask in october 2011 there was a specific request for machine guns to defend our facility in the gaza and just one month before the document again list a machine gun as equipment needed and requested. do you know, who denied a request for the machine-gun?

>> no sir. i do not. >> who should i ask? >> you can ask me and i will research that. >> would you do that? >> guess i will. >> can you watch a video surveillance? >> i have. >> without going into great detail to do you see why somebody on the ground might have passed for that equipment was what we have seen with this surveillance video? do you see how that could have been handy that night? >> in my review i think the agents made the right decision at that point not to engage. they work with fully automatic weapons and i agree machine guns can be menacing.

they wanted them for the approved top watch the video to see if you conclude the same way that i did or not. i want to know who reviewed the request, who denied that and is there an appeals process within the state department in light of the previous recommendations that the secretary of state should take a personal and active review the security situation is there an appeals process where someone hypothetically you said no but i will take that up. does that exist of to the highest levels of the state department? >> one thing it has is a channel that week highly

prized. if you disagree with the policy or a decision that officers all ranks in all locations have the ability to send anything to the highest channels as said to send cable and it goes to the highest level. >> today and july 2012 the ambassador himself requested the security team be extended. >> in tripoli. >> yes. but it does not imagine say they could travel with the increased security presence. it is not that much of a stretch to surprise some of them may have traveled with them. >> when he traveled to then gauzy i am not sure he took those with him.

>> a grand total of how many? >> five. >> how many were there before the deployment ended? >> i am talking about is the ambassador would have had access because we agree the number he had access to was reduced. >> the military team. >> but what i want you to find out with the ambassador that our efforts to normalize security operations are hindered by oppose nations security support increase of violence

on targets that you know, who said that? >> run your context it sounds like an ambassador. >> the ambassador himself that i would describe as a person pleading for help and this is the response he got. no. i do not want to ask them. du know who said that to the ambassador? >> i believe he was referring to? >> it was shirley lamp was not has not and likely never to be the secretary of state in this country. so when she responds to a

senate confirmed ambassador and asking for extra help and she says do not, not, and make that request i want to know of the ambassador had the ability to go above her head to go straight to the top and why not, if not? bernanke certainly did have the ability to go over her head. >> though 1.is there was quite a bit of discussion about leaving them military team that was there at the compound with additional diplomatic security agents. that is why the decision was made to release of ss team replacing with personnel that have marketability is. >> my time is up but sometimes when everyone is to blame no one is to blame.

part of the frustration that was so eloquently remarked upon today was the designation of the facility itself and then you have great failure to understand what policy was so important you testified we have how many? you said five of those? >> and i'm assuming that's someone decided to the miracles of technology we don't have to have a physical presence. see you can understand why we would like to know with respect to libya and who saw

the request for extra equipment and personnel? hand if you believe the inspector general that there is a culture in the state department for consequences for following the dissent channel. some companies say i have an open-door policy but when you walk through it to your career takes a hit. with that want to thank the ranking member you discuss a reasonable time to get the answers to those questions and with that the members have five additional days to put questions in the record. thanks for your time. and conveyed to the men and women who work in the state

department how grateful all of us here respective of politics or service and with that we are turned. -- richard. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] -- adjourned.

[inaudible conversations] -- adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> hopefully they are short. >> and volume were receiving this announcement. he has announced he is

running because he is very concerned with campaign finance limits. does the white house have any feelings house democrats should vote on this? >> as always we feel they should vote their conscience to make decisions for themselves. the president's position whether to support this legislation is based on his own conscience and as the leading democrat on the house budget committee then we do at the white house. but we will review this. >> you said it is 1500 pages really had a for 15 hours.

and the lowe's three powerful words in washington [laughter] >> perspective. [laughter] >> that is true. >> by having so little time to review this. >> the president always has an option. and then to have that power by the constitution. could this is an important piece of legislation we had folks who were up very early this morning in the play

last night to industry and what impact it would have on policy. so we will give this piece of must pass legislation the thorough review that it deserves this is not a typical catchall omnibus this includes both long-term and short-term spending. how did that work? >> it includes 11 it will appropriation bills slide by alliance spending most of the agencies of the federal government then one short term continuation of the department of romance security through february

february 27. >> why did they decide to go through whole man security? >> away the leaders have decided to fight with the president with action and immigration. there are those that wanted to confront the president now with this is the compromise that they would come back with the new congress. >> the measure includes $5 billion for the islamic state operations. m. flood about the request for ebola? to make a last 5.6 million it up sunday to fight the islamic state. it does do that and with the emergency funding to fight ebola back, and abroad.

where most of that money came from that discrepancy comes out of the contingency fund the amid -- administration wanted to attacks resources and they said no. >> the end of your spending bills what do we look for this year? >> this is the dodd/frank amendment or a policy that they managed to win on. it was a provision of the dodd/frank overhaul. to pushout the derivatives business in the house democratic leader mentioned a big point of contention in.

and then it also the democrats are not happy. it would up the limits. >> ahead of that debate on thursday but said house democrats are deeply troubled by this special interest provisions by the omnibus bill and also voting no on the bill leaving taxpayers on the hook with the gambling with the biggest banks. what does this mean for democratic support? >> we don't quite know. is a floozy said she would not go to. and democrats will not be the party to shut down the government. so it seems for the moment

and whether they support this or not but that that would have the spending bill over though widespread they can read your reporting on line. so interims of the operation who are the republicans concerned about? >> with those spending bills that we see that we're pushing for the inclusion trudy's implementation of the president's executive action on immigration. and as it stands now it is not in there. >> so as we mentioned we

confined to on-line. thank you for joining us.

[inaudible conversations] the hearing will please come to order. let me welcome senator schumer and grassley and a castle and by senator joe a brand as well to make brief remarks and senator graham to join us as the ranking member today. said working tirelessly and senator mitch paschal is the

lead co-sponsor working very, very hard to develop a list and legislation that makes comprehensive changes in the area of campus sexual assault. we hope this hearing will help reform their work and i would like to read knowledge as well the commitment of chairman leahy who shepherded the violence against women act out of this committee could get into law. requires colleges to be more transparent about offenses committed on campus. and the rhode island university. to develop best practices

and into the attorney-general. i like to thank the witnesses for doing this with justice and afford to hearing more about your efforts. campus sexual soul is not a new phenomenon but the last years have shed light on how pervasive it has become with some estimates suggest one other five women may suggest sexual violence in college. between 2009 and 2012 according to do data but it has rarely become a priority for university boardrooms

and even the white house with the dedicated task force and that it's on us campaign and innovations in the private sector include in encouraging by standards to develop into a crime. senators castle campus accountability and safety act proposes an innovative reforms of higher learning. the of purpose of today's hearing but as the former united states attorney general bir concerned law-enforcement is marginalized minute comes to the crime of campus sexual assaults and law-enforcement overshadows the harm.

anything can be done badly but law-enforcement done right make sure forensic and evidence is proper they collected the and preserved. but did enforcer of the stages of investigation and prosecution. it brings professionalism and tools like a subpoena and a grand jury in the face of a richer university investigations. it eludes the built-in conflict of interest that once a sexual assault problem minimized or hushed. in a sense an important signal to have police tape up and and officers taking statements that what was serious. so coordinated with medical

and mental health and advocacy professionals. when they are steered away from law enforcement because of the uninformed choices are the relationship between the university of law-enforcement is so weak that steps into a dark of a known as the victim loses a chance for justice she has been victimized all over again. the student has the right to know to collect evidence could mean the disappearance of evidence all together by a future defense attorney. and tell we're willing to put more information into the hands of victims there will not report sexual assault in the first place and we know this from experience. until we find a way to introduce victims to police officers before they have criminal charges the arianna

and uncertainty will be a crippling barrier. were there is no law enforcement response at all that silence is deafening. unfortunately this message fits with the administration -- and administrators to downplay sexual violence. mendes is a threat to public safety that makes up a higher priority for us as law makers and schools administrators to create systems to root out those that would commit such an act to be brought to justice. marginalizing them men and women better trained professionals is of moving the wrong direction. if we don't increase and improve several of the criminal justice system the

victims will pay the price. and i say improved because equally important to law-enforcement involvement is the quality anything can be done badly but there are bad practices out there either afford to hearing from today's witnesses from those best practices and how we is federal legislators could finance a goal of public safety and dignity and justice for survivors. as we begin this hearing arrival thanks their ranking member for his courtesy when i am the chairman continuing with the bipartisan spirit when the chairman takes over from the next congress, senator grassley? >> as you know, i am not a member of the subcommittee

so officially have a member i have an interest in this issue as i am a co-sponsor of the bill. because of the sensitivities universities have with rape on campus that crime off-campus or on campus should be treated the same way and the sooner it is this sooner the message will get out and he cannot get away with something on campus that you could not someplace else. i hope there is a real effort to work on this bill seriously to move it along and they are things that i would associate myself at this point but it is high

time to make sure the crime is a crime and treated the same way and when treated universally will have less of rape on campuses. thank you. >> and i think it is significant at the incoming chairman of the committee made that statement. >> senator schumer? >> i will be brief and thanks to the chairman for holding the hearing in my colleagues for being here and two of my dearest friends for leading the charge and also happy birthday to. but on a more serious note i want to thank both of them and all the others for bringing this whole issue to light this is a dirty the secret for a long time on college campuses that were

abused and afraid to come forward and to those senators that we will hear testified that is not happening anymore. all you have to do is talk to people, relatives, children of friends and ask them how serious? most say it is far more serious than you know, . so to get to the bottom of this is something we can do with a bipartisan way to show that the government works. and works well when we put our minds together to come up with strong solutions afford to hear the testimony to make that happen. >> you have anything? >> i am looking forward to hearing from my colleagues

and the witnesses. >> so we will begin with the lead co-sponsor of this legislation also senator we appreciate your commitments to this area. >> thank you for holding this hearing. first i want to echo the birthday wishes to my colleague and for her passion and focus on this issue. when we are united i think we have a force to be reckoned with and we are united on this effort also senator grassley and want to compliment him and his top notch staff who has worked with us tirelessly for what truly is a bipartisan bill. there is a lot of give-and-take and we all look forward to introducing

and moving forward for passage next year it is important we hear from this committee and your input how to make this bill even better. i know this period will be helpful in that regard. i want to say this is complicated first. we have the title line system and the criminal-justice system of. the two systems have different goals. title ix while is there third hit it is primarily to force college campuses to provide a safe and crime free in discrimination free campus the criminal-justice system's purpose is to hold perpetrators accountable to play into prison. when you combine the two is confusing and complicated so

we have to strengthen titled nine and hopefully provide more victims with the reassurance that they need that they can avail themselves of the justice that is in the criminal-justice system. right now because the justice system has been very bad, much worse the military or college campuses to address victims and is supporting victims and pursuing prosecution, almost a default position victims have taken three advocacy groups said they might be better off to do the title line process. so what we have to you do is make sure the victims', when they report they get support

to a and a good information on their options. we have taken reporting in the military from one at a 1251 data for that is much higher than anyone else by giving special victims counsel to every victim. we cannot afford the government to do that five of every alleged rape or sexual assault but to make sure that they are available to young men and women that are salted our college campuses though they know what they're choices are at the moment of reporting it as the chairman said if they decline to go '02 a the hospital or talk to law enforcement that in fact, they take on a chance that justice will surely never be attained. so in that framework we try to work out a bill to

strengthen support services and provide information and as i said, it does college campus is no good to have it in place if they don't know about it the victim resulted on a friday night needs to know where she can call and go for confidential support and a good information that we hope gives her the courage mitt to make the choice to move forward with the criminal justice system. before leaving to this committee's work i am saddened and a greek about the bad journalism in the "rolling stone" story with the of the rigid game break at the university of virginia i am saddened and

angry because it is a setback for survivors of this country. this is not a crime where you have rampant false reporting or embellishment it is the most underreported crime in america and will remain so. it is not victims coming forward to embellish the problem is victims are too frightened so this bad piece of journalism has set us back government to make sure we overcome at that to oslo as with our determination so they have the support they need at the moment they needed either forward to working with you and other members of the subcommittee with senator gillibrand and our co-sponsors to make it

better and stronger to have a list of reforms that we could accomplish in the military. >> for the record i don't thank you have to be working together to be a force to be reckoned with. [laughter] i know you have a busy schedule so now i'll turn choose senator gillibrand and also happy birthday. >> thank you senator mitt castle for your dealership and vision on such an important issue. i appreciate the committee testing this hearing to discourage sexual violence on college campuses but nearly one of five women is the victim's of of assault that shipshape the conscience of all of us in demand action to many young women's lives are changed

forever to except the status quo earlier along with the bipartisan and coalition raging from that ideological spectrum introduce the campus accountability and safety act to hold those accountable for safety on campus and not the empty promise that it is today. it is a result of the exhaustive efforts and the shortcomings of the system and i want to thank chairman white house for the leadership in support of the bill. clearly we must low-cal law enforcement must improve to be a part of the solution to require every college and university to have a memorandum of understanding with local law enforcement it is shocking it does not exist where evidence is crucial time is precious and

we cannot tolerate that hours or days or weeks of delay. it is an area where congress can act to flip those incentives that would rather sweep these under the rug. the ultimate goal should be one of a percent -- 100 percent that they feel comfortable to report so they are held accountable through due process. we have to strive for this goal but i have heard from far too many survivors they feel victimized. is the inescapable fact. the police should be the first responders and the vast majority of police reports and survivors have

lost trust of law enforcement when they try to shine light on the shortcomings that must be addressed. i want to address the university of virginia s story from "rolling stone" some it may not believe survivors and they come forward and we don't know the facts of what did the did not happen in this case but the facts have not changed but the universe and be admitted they allowed the students to remain on campus and that remains shocking. it has never been about this one school and it is painfully clear colleges have a real problem how they are not handling sexual assaults and i hope this will not outshine the thousands of brave women into men to do tell their stories and a whole thing college's agenda when i hope

it will not discourage others from coming forward for those who are demanding reform. to refuse to let this story to become an excuse not to fix a broken system and i have seen the students and have heard their personal stories so other men and women on campus will not have their own story. of woman at columbia who was raped by a fellow student at columbia in 2012 and reported the rape in 2014 and described to read detective how he didn't the arms down and pushed her legs against her chest to have her across the face and penetrated her a new lee but the detective responded to say that was consentual because she had previous consensual sex with the individual and said he just got a little beards that

might add that the defense attorney would rip her story apart for another woman was raped a 182 weeks into her freshman year at william and smith college when she filed charges the police said the report filled with errors that included failing to identify major discrepancies an examination by a nurse said that she had experienced blunt force trauma and there was semen in her vagina and rectum and underwear but they never ask for samples and the district attorney never interviewed her and declined to bring charges one day later. but they have been devastated by drawn-out court proceedings and prosecutors to not take the case is. for out of five rapes

reported not prosecuted. we must provide survivors with options that are beneficial to law-enforcement and survivors that will encourage more survivors to come forward and to be more cooperative witnesses and better information jews sent the police and department in oregon has developed a model for investigating reports to achieve these goals called the the you have options program reporting. the department found it is the investigative technique to confide as much as gore as little as they choose a time frame they feel comfortable and they can increase reported to collect better evidence. when they sat down with the bowman who developed the program she said she could convince them because they would use that to catch

multiple rapes by the same perpetrator in if they could do that they would to a different system. they found that it works and it is effective. so by using your program bayside increase of sexual assaults by a but by increasing the environment to encourage reporting police departments can three in these cases out of the shadows and hold them accountable. i'll forward to today's testimony and how we respond to do campus sexual assault i will continue to do push the reform by passing a hour bill. obviously it is time to end the scourges and provide some services that they need to hold accountable.

thanks again for sharing the hearing and also to help improve the situation. thank you. >> the q senator gillibrand for your leadership and we're delighted you're constituent from cornell will be one of our witnesses and so is our other from the next panel is coming up, let me have a logistics' moment so what i will probably do as some point is have a brief in the debris will

restart the hearings of all be surprised to go to that congressional fire drill to during the course of the hearing. please stand to be sworn for goodyear from the testimony will give is the truth a whole truth nothing but the church? -- jurors. we're delighted to have this panel here but i will make all three introductions then we will go from witness to witness started with the assistant director of student support in intervention for confidential advising at southern oregon university in india administrator of campus joycean trained with

title ix investigations and trauma is interviewing techniques and told a master's degree in social work camp prior to that it was a community-based program at in the field of domestic violence. and to be part of the you have options program that is quickly a model around the country and for what you have accomplished for from the is a 23 year veteran into into cells and nine she was a first woolwich's serve as the chief since of approximately 21,000 students the chief surgeon of the burden of but to

spend much of that time as president of their borden also serves on sexual violence and also how is it on hazy and prevention. into convene at the university council for human resources and safety services for every graduate of ohio state university to continue her education at cornell we're honored to have her. and finally joining us from rhode island and executive director of the former sexual assault resource center of rhode island for more than 25 years spitzer she was instrumental.

[inaudible] she is also on the board of review and to allow the oversight committee really thrilled to have here in washington but lettuce the kid, but there -- ziggy for inviting u.s.. six and several organizations that we create a response to the troops that know about sexual assault is a vastly underreported crime. those that keep from coming forward this amendment -- if you focus on radios but

those differences are profound and those but to have access at o'hare rated nine dash. >> but i have never in contention and but there is urgent and undeniable fighting with campuses across the country and assault happens there is no clearly identified place for the victims to go and encouraged by campus administrators to move on or except help to engage in the process. the victims never provided a clear explanation of the law enforcement response possibilities for is considered it is investigated by campus actions already taken if the process moves forward they

may be expelled or told to move to another school because academic records are protected and they are free to offend again. the survivors may drop out of school feeling and supported by the administration and his or her cases unresolved. what is missing is the best thing to mitigate on the campus community informed person to provide options and be sure it proceeds at this speed of a survivor to a company through the criminal justice processes one that is trade-in's and in interviewing and the title line process. it is important to a acknowledge it is improving law enforcement response to be a viable option with close coordination is vital.

traditional policing has left much to be desired with duos investigative techniques and collaboration with college administration. because of this they could be discouraged to report crimes and the safety of campuses? >> by linking both administration and the way it approaches. >> if you have options program they encourage victims to come forward to report whatever manner they are most comfortable and anonymous or in person or on a website. they choose a level they wanted and dictate the time frame and are shared to suspend the investigation at

any time. providing this is the label information the police would not otherwise have regardless of the ultimate legal outcome. campus to race give students the information through confidentially by using. through the advisor that is exempt students can receive information without triggering a mandatory investigation for it is imperative the administrator has a deeper understanding of both the criminal justice system and the title line process. also to interact with the confidential advisor without triggering an investigation and. so campus stakeholders' meets monthly and the confidential advisor reveals a sexual assault responses. before serving as end then

to understand your experience to sexual assaults that prioritizes the choices to victims. as a title ix investigator and a clinician i can accompany a victims through the higher criminal-justice process and i have seen the improvements of our program is great to prepare you had options according to law-enforcement but now at but that involves. >> and to respect the process so when they enter the system and expect to get

about criminal justice and the administrative practices in the the law enforcement or the united mine dash diversity reports to the other. but it could relate informational ask hypothetical questions to better understand the choices you have options to interviewing bechtel is of trauma interviewing of interviewing techniques. there is a process to recognize how trauma at the effects their emotions. this and with no experience during no interview in investigation. it leads us to the most important for step in the

campus our law enforcement agency can take. this is where urge you to start for by believe law-enforcement and college universities together can start with a few concrete steps to become fully educated about each other's processes around the interview trading, adopting methods of reporting to have options emphasizing serial perpetration and that focuses on the needs of the victim. i have just heard the vote

is about to conclude. so i will suspend the of hearing briefly while we go vote. that should be five for 10 minutes thank-you to the witnesses. >> i will apologize for my version of 10 minutes and will come to a time in the united states senate. >> thank you. been to allow me to share

the law enforcement on cal -- it is said he still the and concise that we have engaged spee lecter want to stress that cornell with says the serious condition -- issue for the committee. angeles between law-enforcement and also of a two-stage my senator for the behalf of her working with campuses from the new york state. of wood to help prevent sexual assault on campuses. i was honored to participate in the senator's round table earlier this year.

and to respond for sexual violence. the administrative investigations are adjudicated to a school code of conduct and policies and governed by a number of laws. . .

the lower administrative standard of proof falls short often. the higher beyond a reasonable doubt standard. evidence campus factfinders are considered a broad range of evidence including evidence like unauthenticated evidence that would not be admissible and her lovers are proceeding where rules of evidence are much stricter. it takes more than 50 days to process some physical evidence such as dna because of backlogs in crime labs in there for mistreated investigations almost always outpace criminal investigations. the fact administrative timeframe accelerates discovery in way a way that harms the complainant in a criminal proceeding. then there is cross-examination. there's no opportunity for cross-examination of the campus investigation or judicial proceeding. cross-examination however is one of the cornerstones for the criminal trial guaranteed by the sixth amendment. campuses must investigate all

reports of sexual violence made through responsible employees under title ix. additionally campus officials must inform students of their rights to file a criminal complaint and have an obligation to guide students through the process if they desire. the student chooses to file a criminal complaint. the campus is not permitted to delay its title ix investigation which must be concluded within 60 days while the criminal case is proceeding. this is a source of much tension between the two systems and my instructors -- administrative codes have found largely due to these complex parties through less willing to be candid while a criminal investigation is pending. in the face of these difficult issues yesterday to talk about best practices. the first just being a good good neighbor with your other local law enforcement agencies. our main campus lies within several governmental jurisdictions. our cooperative efforts with local law enforcement began long before a crime enforcement.

leaders and supervisors meet and talk on a regular basis building relationships we can share information actually not only on an ad hoc or emergency basis. establishing regular and open lines of communication increases our confidence and trust to share information on cases that cross jurisdictional lines. an mou is not a panacea. a memorandum of understanding or him argue with local law enforcement is often cited as a best practice and i agree that it can be helpful but entering into one is not always possible and in municipalities with larger jurisdictions may find themselves with many different mo used to contend with. there is no guarantee that a local law enforcement agencies will cooperate with an mou nor are there consequences if they do not. given the one-sided nature of an mou and the amount of time and resources it takes to secure and maintain one lawmaker should consider carefully as the mandate to enter into one. there are better less costly balance ways to achieve the same goals. in any case the penalty proposed

up to 1% of the school's operating budget for failure to secure an mou goes too far for something so out of institutions control. although the legislation allows the department of education to waive the penalty of an institution demonstrates a good faith effort to give the department too much discretion in making that determination in d.o.e.'s resources could be more fruitfully engaged in encouraging methods of cooperation. we reiterate our colleagues emphasis on trauma informed investigations. we know that only a small percentage of sexual assaults are reported to the police. victims believe they will not be treated fairly or will be re-traumatized throughout the process. as more investigators both law enforcement and campus judicial investigators are trained in trauma informed investigative techniques i believe the perceptions of the way we handle the sexual assault cases will improve. do you have options program pioneered is a good example of how this training works.

community engagement to share resources. most municipalities are stretched thin and not able to engage fully with their campus populations. because resources are scarce for everyone we should be doing more to share those that exist. for example many databases and other investigative support tools are not available to campus law enforcement because we are not considered governmental agencies by the state or municipal authorities that control the resources. easier access to these resources would be a tremendous help to appropriate campus law enforcement agencies and ease the burden on the governmental agencies. we know you're concerned about the amount of enforcement oversight of title ix in the clery act. efforts to beef up enforcement including increased fines for noncompliance should be coupled with training education programming around prevention law enforcement and administrative investigative positions in research. as i noted previously resources to support training in trauma informed investigations however,

i'm sorry. as i noted previously resources to support training and trauma informed investigations will benefit campus adjudicators and law enforcement. i am concerned however the system does not differentiate between willful knowing and intentional conduct and inadvertent conduct but rather gives the department great discretion to assess the significant penalty thereby affecting the amount of resources available to do a better job. the bill allows the department to keep the fines it collects creating an incentive for over enforcement. i strongly recommend these provisions be revised to put the penalties more in line with civil rights laws to differentiate between willful and inadvertent violations and to direct research and training. i also strongly encourage you to target education and prevention programs at the middle and high school levels to begin to address cultural issues around sex, alcohol controlled

substance usage and consent before students arrive at college. attitudes and perceptions about sex healthy relationships and general rule solidified long before young people reach college age. yearly we can begin the education around respect across gender lines in a more meaningful and impactful time the better chance we have of making the sweeping cultural changes necessary to get at the root of the problem. in conclusion cornel university is not tolerate any form of sexual violence by organs members of the community really share the responsibility for creating safer marketeering campus culture in which bias harassment and violence have no place. i appreciate the opportunity for impact in the deliberations and will be happy to answer any questions the committee has. >> thank you chief zoner now we will turn to ms. longhammer. welcome.

>> can you hear me now? okay. thank you for inviting me to testify today. day one has served as rhode island sexual assault coalition for 40 years. we provide treatment intervention education advocacy and prevention services to rhode islanders of all ages and we operate in the states advocacy center accredited by the national children's lines. our trained staff of 40 employees in 60-plus volunteers work closely with law enforcement prosecution area hospitals schools in the community to address and prevent sexual assault and abuse of highly-regarded trauma informed treatment and programs. rhode island's high concentration of colleges and universities make the issue of campus sexual assault in major focus from day one. we have worked with victims of college sexual assault throughout her history so we have been aware of the issues that are prevalent. we know these cases are rarely reported to law enforcement and

the ones that are hardly ever move on to successful prosecution. it's clear the current system is not working. there is never done a comprehensive system that works in the best interest of victims either in our state or around the country. day one is on the front lines and committed to changing that in rhode island. to start the process we are organizing a specialized task force to address adult sexual assault in rhode island that includes law enforcement prosecution day one advocates medical professionals and higher education representatives. this team will be responsible for the oversight of adult sexual assault cases from the initial report of investigation or prosecution to trauma informed clinical treatment and support for the victim. we will ensure that the victim is in the driver seat. campus-based adjudication processes don't work. colleges alone are not competent

to handle the investigation and prosecution of these cases nor should they be. any hearing process should be integrated with law enforcement but it has to be a team approach. after the release of the white house report last year the issue of campus sexual assault became front and center in rhode island. day one has been proactively meeting with nearly all of the colleges and universities throughout the state to develop a best practices approach to these cases. while we found is that everyone at the table from universities to law enforcement advocates is committed to making major improvements in the system but we need a coordinated victim centered approach to get there. we know that research suggests more than 90% of campus rapes are committed by a relatively small percentage of college men, possibly as few as 4% who are repeat offenders averaging six victims each. yet these rapists overwhelmingly

remain at large escaping any serious punishment. the current climate is such that universities and lawmakers are scrambling to find a global fix to the problem with misleading policies about alcohol consent and what constitutes rape. what we need to be focusing on is bystander intervention so that the vast majority of students who are not committing rape can intervene when they see someone being taken advantage of. and we need a system that holds offenders accountable. we know we can't just leave these cases to the criminal justice system and part because most victims are still reluctant to report. so the question is not should colleges be mandated to report these crimes to police. the question is how do we create a system where the victim's choices are the priority and the process is designed to work in the best interest of the victim.

we have to make the option of reporting a viable one for victims and we know that based on successful models in other states a positive experience during initial reporting creates an environment where people feel supported and believed and it decreases re-trauma this nation. one example worth noting as we have all talked about today is that you have options program out of the ashland oregon police department that recognizes the need for victim centered offender focused response to sexual violence by law enforcement professionals. and just a few highlights that really i think have impressed us in rhode island. a primary goal of the program is to increase sexual assault reporting by eliminating as many barriers to reporting as possible. we think that is key. another key component of the program is the victim has the option to make an information report only meaning the victim can choose to remain anonymous

but still provide details of the case to law enforcement for documentation. when making an initial report there is no requirement to meet in person with a law enforcement officer. if victim or other reporting party may report using an on line forum or a victim may choose to have a sexual assault advocate report on their behalf. the victim maintains control over the time and location where the initial report is made to law enforcement and in addition to comprehensive advocacy provisions if victim is not pressured to participate in a criminal investigation after making a report. what we are advocating for those not universally exist today. we have to create it. if we expect victims to report these crimes we need a system that works for them, one in which they are believed, supported and cap confident in a just outcome. we owe it to her students to

provide the best possible response to all sexual assault. without that we are sending a message, do not bother reporting this crime. thank you. >> thank you very much ms. langhammer and let me thank senators klobuchar and blumenthal distinguished prosecutors both before they came here. if i could, but could, let me's death on for moment because i'm acquainted was the hearing could i know senator franken is under the gun for another hearing in if i could yield immediately for him -- to him for questioning. >> thank you and it seems like do you have options program got unanimous raves from the panel here which says something. i was wondering, knowing them mccaskill gillibrand

legislation, is there anything in it that you can take from your program that would legislatively say these are the best practices or you need to do some kind of program like back? is there any particular aspect of the program that you think possibly should be within the legislation itself? >> well, i think it would be great if the legislation could include some requirements of law enforcement as well. if the bill does address colleges providing confidential advising and resources that are informed and knowledgeable through the campus. that seems a bit complicated to add into a bill that is mostly directed at campuses but of course he will know about -- more about that than i do.

i think somehow including the ideas behind offering choice, offering collaboration, offering a commitment to working with the campus administration around reports would go a long way. always of course at the direction of the victim about whether that's what they want or not. >> what about the trauma informed testimony. that seems to be -- is there a way to describe that that is neither general enough to include or at least tell us about what that is and how it works. >> yeah so that is an interviewing technique developed by russell strand to be used in the military and it's based on some neurobiological science around how our brains for memories when we experience trauma. it diverges from a typical

rapidfire questioning experience and really asks investigators to slow down, approach an interview while talking about all of the senses a memory. what did you hear, what did you feel, what did it smell like and apart from a typical linear investigation. where were you, what time was than who were you with them those types of things and it just starts with tell me what you can about a particular situation that happened and it also decreases the likelihood of misinformation being given at a time often victims feel pressured to answer a question and so in order to do that they may be given an answer that is entirely accurate or they are trying to please those that are asking the questions. when you phrase things like tell me what you can about, that just allows a person to tell you what they think. >> this is for the whole panel.

i had a bill that revised mental health -- it allows schools to partner with mental health providers and community-based organizations to make sure that students have mental health treatment and as they need it. we got about $55 million in funding for these kinds of programs. i have seen this work very well in schools in minnesota but you know i often hear, when i hear about the subject, the shortage of mental health counselors on college campuses and i'm interested in exploring the same model with college campuses. this is for anyone on the panel.

what would you include in legislation to expand student access to mental health care and to make sure that college students get the mental health support that they need? >> i think it's great that you are putting that forward. i think it's important that students have access not only on campus but off-campus. there may be times when it makes more sense for them to seek services from private providers in the community they be with not-for-profit community, mental health centers or other kinds of organizations that provide services. but on campus as well but i don't know that all campuses have that level of professional to respond to what victims need in particular. so i think it's important to expand it and have it be available and the training available to those that would like to access it and become

skilled in that area. >> one of the barriers that we see in our university is just a lack of time. one is based on the school here so students that are engaged in therapeutic services on campus are generally disengaged for the summer period in particular so that can be disruptive in the therapeutic process. the other volume of students that are accessing the services tends to limit the number of sessions that people can have with a therapist and so ultimately it comes back to a resource issue i think. and when you are doing trauma work is often long and involved in over a long period of time. >> thank you. senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much for holding this hearing and thank you to our witnesses. i managed an office of border people in minnesota and worked extensively with the university of minnesota and their police chief. one of the things in the

discussion about campus sexual assault and sexual assaults in military that i have always put forward is that this trust in the system is key. all of our victim surveys the gold standard is judging the case and getting a strong sentence but you all know that this might happen. sometimes you can prove a case. sometimes i have met with victims and their families and said we believe you but they don't have the evidence right now but we want you to know we are going to make a difference. this guy will probably do it again and we can do something then perhaps the testimony will matter. they are hard discussions but what we found in the surveys are what makes the difference is they still feel they can trust the system so they will still come forward is if someone is listening in we are handling the case seriously. sometimes people look at this from the outside -- we all know that doesn't happen. it's also about trust. i wonder if he could address that at that in terms of that trust.

maybe you achieve zoner and why that's an important piece of it. >> i don't know that i can actually say it better than you did. >> let the record reflect. >> it is very important and you can have the best investigation. you can have the best advocacy. you can have the most willing and energized and in pursuit of justice survivor to bring forward but if you are stymied at any point in the criminal justice proceedings because of lack of evidence, because of lack of willingness to prosecu prosecute, because of concerns about the win loss records very candidly put then you can run into a greater difficulty in getting more people to come forward. so very much what you said. building that trust throughout

the entire state of the system is paramount. >> okay, very good. one thing we did at the university of minnesota was something we called take back the night every year. i wonder ms. fleischer if you could address a simple idea that sometimes people know how to prevent this from happening but a lot of time students are just out of high school and they show up at campus and they can make bad decisions and the perpetrators can make bad decisions. could you talk about how education matters? >> absolutely. again you said it well. what we find so much of the college level is of course what we are talking about his consent and mostly in our culture we don't talk a lot about sex in general and how to pursue it in how to make sure that everybody wants it. so there is definitely a percentage of people who really just are uninformed about how to gain consent to have sex.

and i think it was cheap zoner who talked about having education and prevention happening earlier on in school where you are talking about consent from an early age and then certainly at a college level. when we do our educative outreach programs that are schools that is primarily what we are talking about his consent, not so much focusing on sexual assault and rape that students knowing what consent is and how to get consent and how how to be sure those parties or all parties involved are participating because they want to. >> okay, very good. cheap zoner in terms of educating we talked about students but police officers on the frontline, i will tell you having more women cheat. when i first started as prosecutor member talking to her university of minnesota police chief who was a woman and i said she is going to take me around and meet at 11:00 in the

morning. i said how polite no who you are? she said it won't be hard. i got there and she was the only woman and we greatly increase the numbers. i think that would help personally and not just chiefs about higher up in the police department but i also think there are best practices that you can recommend to all officers and other chiefs. can you talk about that and how to deal with victims of sexual assault? >> yeah, you think the type of person that gets lot drawn to law enforcement as a person that quickly and rapidly wants to get all the facts together and see justice served. sometimes the system goes against the grain and the drive of the individual. training officers to slow down and allow the person to give a testimony in a way that makes the most sense and gets the best and most truthful information from someone in the most accurate recollection is a way that we can again reemphasized a

victim centered approach will go much farther and being prosecutorial proceedings. law enforcement office, and i think began begin you mentioned women in law enforcement. the sentiments of being a good listener as opposed to looking forward and trying to get to the goal as fast as you can u. have to be carefully balance. women tend to carry on a more conversational manner of speaking so whatever level they are and i think our colleagues can learn from each other. anyone who exhibits good listeners and getting accurate information and allow someone to move forward should be enforced. >> i appreciated your comments ms. langhammer about different sizes of colleges and universities and the issue ms. fleischer about time and they do that. we will have to look at this

scene not every college is going to be able to have full-time people do this so you have to look at it in terms of training within the counties and departments as well so thank you very much. appreciate it. >> senator blumenthal. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for holding this hearing which is immensely important. i have been involved in helping to write the bill that senator mccaskill and senator gillibrand and i have done and working very closely with groups, advocates and survivors holding more than a dozen roundtables to listen directly and to learn from everyone involved in this issue. the bill in my view really involves law enforcement through a memorandum of understanding that would be required. it provides for better fact-finding and investigation on campus through confidential

advisers as well as a uniformed process of adjudication within the university. all too often it's ad hoc and unfair to both sides. the lack of a process with integrity and accuracy is what discourages a lot of survivor from coming forward. so this bill will give them more choices. the criminal process of off-campus or a fair and uniformed process with due process on campus and i think the experience at the university of virginia should reaffirm our resolve not only to addressing this epidemic of campus sexual assault but also providing reassurance to victims and survivors that there will be due process and accurate

fact-finding with integrity and honesty and services, the real commitment to services so that a woman isn't left standing outside a fraternity seeking help from her friends. she should have support within the system, confidential advisers, services that will elicit the truth from her, provide a means of eliciting forensic evidence and preserving it, a system that avoids the kind of ad hoc sometimes chaotic process that is so demeaning and discouraging to victims and survivors. so i think the university of virginia experience and we are unable at this point to draw clear conclusions as to what the facts were at this point, should

intensify and increase our determination to make this process were they up the courage of survivors who do come forward. and whatever happened to this victim or survivor, it should redouble our determination to improve this process. let me ask ms. langhammer, i strongly believe that we should require schools to provide comprehensive training to individuals who served on a campus adjudication panel and we ought to pick people who have the qualifications and experience and expertise to provide some measure of fairness and due process. ..

however, the victim needs to be in that driver's seat,, in charge of what happens with that information later. >> the victim should be in charge of the information, should be in charge of what happens with the prosecution is that is the choice for an on-campus adjudication, but you don't disagree that on campus adjudication should be an option for a survivor

that is the way. i hope i hope i misread your testimony, but i read it as essentially disapproving those on-campus adjudication processes as to use your words that they don't work. >> as they currently exist they tend to replace any effective reporting or investigation or prosecution on the criminal side. and so what happens is in most cases the most that might happen is an individual would be suspended or even expelled but then free to go to another institution. given the statistics, as we no that most of these individuals are serial offenders. >> and that is an important.amos commit crime after crime after crime, a small minority of college men

commit the overwhelming number of rapes and sexual assaults against women. it seems to me that the issue you just raised a a record-keeping and record transfers is separate and apart from the integrity and fact-finding effectiveness of an on-campus adjudication process, and i hope that you we will support what is in the bill, which is to preserve and in fact enhance what we have now on many campuses, and many are taking the initiative on there own to do so. i would be happy if the chairman would allow you to finish your answer. >> i would gladly do that. >> thank you, you, senator. you know, i don't disagree with you that there needs to be some kind of process as an option for victims on campus. there are a lot of

things that need to be addressed on-campus to support. however, i think right now a lot of those processes have been developed in a vacuum and have not been developed in true partnership with law enforcement in a way that clearly defines what should be happening on campus and what should not. i think there is too much emphasis on what should not happen on campus and currently universities administrators are forced to act as judge and jury, the defendant's rights are are violated. we all know. we have seen these horror shows on campus after campus. i don't no that we are at a place where we have developed effective on-campus adjudication processes because we have not worked effectively so far.

with law enforcement. i really encourage. i know i know in rhode island we we will be looking at the model, the new kid on the block but is so -- the concerns that you have as well as the concerns that we see a day one, victim is basically not being given all of their options. in many cases only the adjudication process options are given in a very thorough way. so i think that is our reluctance to say yes, we need a good adjudication process. >> i want to thank all of you for your testimony, appearance here, and, and your great work. if i am able to stay for more questions, i will ask them, but i just want to

emphasize that for folks in the trenches like yourselves who are doing this work, the controversy about the university of virginia probably seems like a distraction, but it is no excuse for continuing to support this cause of improving the services and the process available to victims. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, sen. blumenthal. sen. mccaskill called a complicated thicket a complicated thicket where title ix and law enforcement bump into each other. i think that is pretty fair description, and i would i would like to get into that complicated thicket. you talked about the importance of ensuring victims survivors of there right to suspend the law enforcement investigation as it goes forward. now, one might say if you

give the victim the right to suspend the investigation it we will result in less enforcement. i think i think you have seen that that is actually not true, but could you explain that for our committee record? >> absolutely. one absolutely. one of the things that we have seen a lot is that when survivors are entered into any process, that being a law enforcement process or an administrative process, there is a time frame and a rush. what happens for a lot of survivors is they just feel catapulted by the process, completely out of there control, and a lot of times they don't even really truly understand what is going on. mostly mostly folks don't understand the criminal investigation. i'm so what we have actually found is it has increased not only reporting but those cases that go to the das office because the survivors

are given the time that they need to fully engage in the process, to understand the process and also to be real to maintain the rest of there life because that is another thing that happens, people's lives get sort of hijacked by the criminal justice process. they need to find different shifts at work. if it is a student it is impacting their studies. another barrier for a lot of survivors is informing their parents about what is happened. and so by allowing them to suspend and pause they can sort of take care of those bits and pieces in a way that they feel comfortable to continue one in the criminal justice process. >> i would note from a a prosecutorial.of view that by formalizing that you are really not giving much away because in cases like this where consent is such an

important part of the defense or lack of consent the presence and willingness of the victim to proceed is crucial. i think in many respects all you're really doing is informing and confirming for victims of the crime of power that they have anyway but don't no which takes me to my second question, somebody you has experienced a sexual assault and now has to encounter the title ix process has two things going on. in fact, everybody everybody has two things going on. responding to the event itself, itself, beginning to gather evidence, beginning to take statements, beginning to put together the case that we will go forward one way or the other the second is to educate the person who was the subject of the events about that process. those two things, i think we need to think about how we disaggregated them a little

bit. what you said in your testimony is that in your program there is a confidential advisor who is exempt from the title ix process. it does not click off the title ix timing clock. >> yes. >> at the same time the police can engage with the victim of the crime without being obliged to necessarily open a criminal case and proceed with charges. >> yes. >> so it seems to me i think of that as a vestibule before you get into the case part where you get victim, the title ix folks or somebody representing them and law enforcement together , and that gives the person who has been the subject of this crime at chance to understand what it's going to be, what the choices are before the second process gets triggered. is that a fair description? is that something we should

be trying to achieve in this legislation to make sure that moment exists? >> i believe so. perhaps perhaps that is best illustrated by a case example. we had student present. she was referred to me and she came to my office and outlined for me what had happened to her. and so given my knowledge which i said was imperative of the criminal justice system, i knew what she was sharing with me was in our state a measure 11 crime meaning crimes at admin perpetrated against perpetrated against or what kerry at 25 year prison sentence. we are talking about a serious crime. i let i let her no that she was disclosing a crime to me , and at that time i said here are your options. this is what we can do on campus, and this is what we can do

with law enforcement. one of the things that i think is important to know, she was getting my endorsement of law enforcement. i was opening a door saying, you we will have a good experience here and i can go with the. this particular woman said let's do it right now today. i today. i said, i will call and see if we can read i'll see if there is a detective that can work with us today. so it was kind of kismet and away because i had a free calendar and was able to go with her and she interviewed with law enforcement). and still in that process what i am able to do as a college administrator is say, are you safe in your current campus advised? here is what it looks like, and here is the timeclock once we involve these other campus people. this woman was okay, but i i wanted to mention that because it is important. we need to discuss this someone is safe. she was and was invested in that process. so she participated in law

enforcement investigation with my support up until the.of when they were ready to interview and make an arrest of them. at that.is when we can engage our title ix process on our campus because now nothing that the college is going to do is going to impede the criminal justice system, and in the way way it helps our case is a college, engagement with law enforcement has happened. and so both of those have been successful. a plea bargain. a registered sex offender and was charged and convicted of those crimes. crimes. expelled from the university. the last piece that i would say about that, there are other parts. i accompanied her to grand jury, with her to win the sentencing and was there to explain some of the other bits and pieces of things. how will she get in touch

with those people, and all the pieces that continue still a student and still impacted. continues to be impacted by what happened to her. and i just think that vestibule is a great word. having that person that has the knowledge of all of the systems and inaccurate and informed way, it's important. >> second-round. >> thanks. i think that is an apt and articulate description if the survivor chooses to go to the criminal justice system not all survivors may

have the decisiveness so i wonder what you tell women because there is the majority of victims here encourage them to go to the criminal justice system? >> again, we are always going with what they look like. >> do you have an obligation to report that crime? >> i do not. one of the things that is important is that they are taking delayed reports. there is no timeframe within

which somebody has to report we have worked with students in a title ix process will have reported in a delayed way as well. it is true that there is no longer any physical evidence, but their are other kinds of evidences that can still be collected. i was a cautiously i recommend law enforcement. a gift, 76 percent have interaction with law enforcement. most students only report to law enforcement. our police department has the name and information of the offenders. most survivors a lender is

somebody else. they are much more willing to do that. again, just giving information to law enforcement is highly valuable. >> a very important. survivors can be persuaded even if they don't pursue a prosecution in the event that the assailant does it again. they may want to proceed to corroborate or pursue a second case against the same person. i have heard that also on various campuses, survivors may be more willing to come forward and may want forensic evidence to be preserved. if they go to a hospital

there is likely to be forensic evidence, and evidence, and it can be preserved even if they don't pursue it. i want to shift to an area that was raised at the close of the testimony offered, the transfer process and student records. the experience again tragically unfortunately the murder of anagram. and you evidently committed various offenses at other schools. his records were not

transferred to schools when he was transferred. i i am putting it over simplistically, but essentially schools where he went were not informed of bad experiences involving him a prior schools which would have been useful to them. your testimony states that if a student is found responsible and is expelled, that student could move to another school. we know that most rapes are committed by a few repeat offenders. unfortunately it is not only a possible outcome, it may well be a probable outcome. you mentioned that academic records are protected, which prevents the school from which the student is transferred from sharing of information. i assume you're talking

about for but which actually does allow schools to disclose records to other schools to which a student is transferring under some instances. it may have a chilling effect in practice, but the law has a specific exception for this purpose. schools tend not to disclose information. a barrier. so i wonder if you could tell me they have a policy from which a student is transferring about the reason for dismissal, leaving the school if it is in the record. that is kind of a long-winded question, but i would broaden it to all

three of the members of this panel. i hope you understand what the question is. >> i think i understand what the question is. to the best of my knowledge, yes, they look and a students a students not only academic records the behavioral records as well. >> and as for those records of the school thank you. >> am not entirely clear on the process. to the best of my knowledge we do as well. >> there was actually a college in rhode island: providence college. i believe it was oregon. the very situation you are describing. i think that definitely

needs some attention in the legislation. i would recommend that. it is so critically important. a school may be really happy to get rid. they can't deal with the proof. the student does not want to pursue the criminal justice process. there is a rapist on campus, serial predator. if he is gone the school says we have done our job. we got rid of them. then he then he went to another school. schools ought to be asking this question, when someone comes to them, especially if there is some potential disciplinary problem involved, what was the reason they can protect

schools on there own campuses. very much permissible under for but. it is not precluded for a school to ask that question. i think it is. schools around the country to be somewhat more inquisitive and responsible the long-winded preface to my question indicates that it seems like a technical issue, but it has real consequence. >> let me ask a few more questions. we are running a little short on time. i invite the chief to supplement their answers for the record in writing. i wanted to touch on a couple of things.

encourages and requires universities to develop a memorandum of understanding with local law enforcement. the memorandum of understanding must divide may not be the best way. less costly and more balanced alternatives in order to pass legislation, not have wiggle room where colleges and universities get away with doing nothing, how would you recommend that we expand the requirement or redefine the requirement to make sure we are achieving what we all recognize we should achieve if a memorandum of understanding is not exactly pertinent. >> and i want to clarify, memorandums of understanding can be very helpful and useful in many situations. one of the concerns that i

have is different campuses have different levels of security and/or law enforcement available to them in their own construct and and may have a single agency or multiple agencies that are responsible governmentally. so so when you look at the memorandum of understanding as the only tool by which you are going to communicate it takes a great a great amount of effort and a lot of cases to make sure that those are signed. again, i am going to reiterate that governmental agencies have absolutely no obligation. you can sign anything you want and there are no repercussions for someone who does not engage in a behavior that the memorandum is there. he has petitions can be left floundering with good intent to try to make things happen in addition, the law enforcement agencies on campus are also responsible employees. so employees. so they have to report and start that title ix clock ticking. it ticking. it is a different relationship than what my

colleague described. we have a lot of different levels of security and law enforcement on campus, a lot of different interactions with different agencies on campuses and off campus, and encouraging people to reach agreements is definitely a best practice, whether it is through an mo you or other methodologies by hosting conferences that get local law enforcement together on a regular basis, opening up information and database sharing so we are all sharing the same information amongst each other so that we can talk intelligently and share that information providing records management system, bridges and gaps so information can be automatically shared so that the system can be flagged across governmental and campus information for criminal activity. all very good places to invest time and money.

>> you mentioned that your law enforcement officers are responsible officials, a term of art under title ix that triggers the title ix clock to begin to run, and you mentioned in your testimony that delay in title ix investigations is not allowed even when law enforcement is on the case. the the hallmark case of the law enforcement investigation that would justify some degree of flexibility in pursuing the title ix passed so that there is not interference with the law enforcement path, particularly the investigative part. obviously with respect to the quality of life in the protection of the student and all that student life management can't be stopped. a problem for you to have two investigations basically taking place with the same

witnesses at the same time? >> it has been problematic. thankfully we have a very good relationship with our on-campus judicial administrators and in working with us and the district attorney's office as well. we do our best to navigate, support the victim and allow the victim to have a say in which direction it is going and what is emphasized. certainly there are interesting the criminal proceedings to protect a potential future case because the statute of limitations is much longer that would raise an eyebrow as administrative proceedings move forward, and i go into more detail in the written statement. >> it is also possible for defense counsel representing an assailant use the title ix process to delay, degrade, and inhibit law-enforcement. >> correct.

i mentioned earlier that is part of why we actually end up getting less cooperation because with a looming criminal case people are reluctant to share information that may influence and outcome one way or the other. >> you said something very interesting. the question is not should colleges be mandated but how do we create a system where the victim's choices on the priority and the process is designed to work in the best interest of the victim? what are the hallmarks of such a system? >> first accurate information from the beginning. again, looking at the actual model, i think having everyone present at the beginning so that a victim knows. >> prior to her commitment. >> right. informed choice. here i am, law enforcement officer. this is what will

happen if you go forward. we will still work closely with the university who is sitting right here. this is the process you can expect if you go through this on campus. you also have the option to tell me some basic information. i don't even have to use your name. so i think all of those options and the victim being in the drivers seat and i believe that with that kind of scenario, and i understand understand why many more victims choose to go forward because they do feel that they are in charge and have choices and they also feel like we keep hearing again and again how victims feel this timeframe is being thrown at them. as you stated, sen., it is another kind of out of control lack of consent and re-victimization in re- victimization in a sense. when we say a certain thing is not working, we think it is because it is not working in collaboration with all of the system