>> then you have john grisham on the front of your book. >> guest: yes a wonderful author who knows a lot about the courtrooms and counties that i work in every day, every year of my career. >> host: bryan stevenson, just mercies the name of the book the story of justice and redemption. we won't tell the ending to the narrative about walter macmillan. if you want to see it you can pick up the book for yourself. thank you for being on booktv. >> guest: you are very welcome. james cobb jr. talks about "flood of lies."

[inaudible conversations] >> do you want to set? >> good morning. my name is sharon and i'm a volunteer for the book festival. on behalf of the state library of louisiana and louisiana center of the book. i welcome you to book festival the 11th annual book festival. there will be a book signing with jim cobb afterwards in the bonds -- barnes & noble tent. so if you want to carry on after that he will be happy to sign your books. we are happy to have with us this morning james cobb jr. who has written "flood of lies" the

saint regis nursing home tragedy. he was a managing partner in a firm. cobb served as an adjunct professor at tulane university while at the law school. and since the 80s has taught at harvard university since 2008. he lives and practices privately in new orleans and we are pleased to introduce to you the james a. kopp jr.. [applause] >> thanks very much. good morning. it's cold out there isn't it? thank you guys for coming and braving the weather. a couple of things about my biography which is my first book and thank you very much. a lot of folks say i really like your book and when you're going to write another one? i said as soon as this one breaks even i will think about the second. in addition to practicing law is turned into a criminal case i will talk about in a second but

i have practiced law in new orleans for 35 years and i had done criminal case in 25 years. i did insurance defense work and represent corporations hospitals and nursing homes and then something happened called katrina and we will talk about that in a minute. this is the cover to the book and a lot of folks have commented about it. it is an extraordinary photograph of a wheelchair in a field. this is from the st. rita's nursing home and when we were looking to find a cover photograph i went searching on line. they have sold their photographs in new york so i went on line and looked around and i clicked on this and this is on the st. rita's nursing home the day after the water went down. it is not 21st century photoshop. it's a real picture.

in terms of how was the book written, i shouldn't say this because we are on c-span and i will show my technological incompetence. the book was handwritten on yellow legal pads, 126,850 words by hand. usually around 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning while the kids and my wife were upstairs sleeping. my wife is a court reporter, debbie and a stenographer and a legal secretary. i would write a chapter or two and she would sit down to the computer and i would dictate to her and she would write it. that is how the book was constructed and it took about two years to do it. of course after a couple of weeks of deadly typing the book and listening to she has become editor i dictate something and she would say are you sure you want to say that? yes, i'm kind of sure i want to say it. we had a relationship where for

two years we worked on this book and went i went from a handwritten copy to this. so i guess we did it the old-fashioned way. let me tell you about the night of august the 28th, 2005. it was a sunday night. it was the day before katrina struck. that night at the st. rita's nursing home directors and -- residents have been fed and put to bed and everyone hunkered down for the night. st. rita's nursing home was owned by a mom-and-pop corporation. these are folks that own the business to work in the business as to their children, their grandchildren and their nieces and nephews. for 20 years since it opened in 1985 for 20 years they had sheltered them place. they hadn't left. they hadn't lost their resident and they didn't have a drop of water in their work -- parking lots on this particular day they

decided to stay because it's what they knew. and because it had worked. so on that night of september the 28th, august 282009 the wind howled. it was like the sound of a jet plane taking off on a runway. it just blows you away. the building shook and the roof leaked but they made it through the night. the next morning around 10:00 in the morning there was actually a break in the weather and some of the men said let's go outside and check out the building to see how damaged it is. they walked around and there was a little patch of blue sky. what we now know that they didn't know then is that they were inside the eye of the hurricane on the western wall of that pie. so they're walking around looking at the building and the son of the owners heard a noise off in the distance and it sounded like a train.

he said to himself what kind of idiot is running a train in the middle of a hurricane? then the noise got louder and he looked in the direction of the noise and he saw a wall of water 8 feet high rushing in his direction. in front of that wall of water was every manner of four-legged animal, horses, dogs, pigs from the swamp, board, hogs, running for their lives. so little so and the other men that were outside ran inside and set get everybody up the water is coming. the water then slammed into the nursing home with the force of a tsunami, breaking down the wal walls, sweeping people off their feet and what happened was in that instant we went from no water, not a drop of water in the nursing home to 8 feet in 10

minutes. and of course a lot of the nursing home residents were in wheelchairs and somewhere in beds and couldn't move and 35 folks lost their lives. damien if you could please cue the video. we will take you back to that moment in time. st. bernard parish almost to della crowe going south and all the other nursing homes and st. bernard parish had evacuated. the one that happened was st. rita's which is very in usual for st. bernard parish. st. bernard folks never evacuate. they just stay.

>> that's number two copper. this particular occasion in 2592% of st. bernard evacuated which was extraordinary. the key difference is that in 2005 st. bernard even as precarious as it is, there was no mandatory evacuation order issued by the government even though ray nagin for the first time in the history of the city of new orleans issued a mandatory evacuation order. cell and he were making their decision and by the way the decisions was a sophie's choice. are we going to evacuate and take 65 people some of whom aren't oxygen in summer and beater tubes and some who can't sit up straight and put them on the bus for 10 or 12 or 14 hours knowing of course that some of those folks are going to die. in that exact moment of

indecision they decided to do what they knew how to do which was to stay and which had never ever resulted in the loss of their life. that wall of water continued to rise and as we have reconstructed it in the book the folks who passed away were the sickest, the weakest, the folks who couldn't get out of a wheelchair and the folks who couldn't get out of bed. what then ensued in the next frantic minutes was this rush to try to save people's lives. and cell and maple and by the way mabel is about this tall and she can't swim. they went from no water to 8 feet of water. you could have been on our defense team. that's exactly right. that was our defense.

the government ultimately said that it was our fault. what happened was the levees we now know the corps of engineers designed these levees, collapsed before it reached design criteria. it was supposed to withstand a hurricane teddy bear -- category 3. when it got too sure it wasn't even a three. the levees fell over in created this tsunami. our defense was we did not kill the folks at st. rita's. they did. so that's a great point. thank you for that. right after this happened as with everything in the united states of course somebody had to be blamed, right? this is a culture of blameworthiness. nothing happens in america without being somebody else's faults of the media jumped on this story which was the most horrific story of all the stories of katrina. there was lots of loss of life everywhere but not so many in

one place and not so many from poor or elderly folks. so were shocking and i know you don't remember it but i remember watching it and we talk about it in the book, watching it on television in houston and saying the news reports were that the owners sal and mabel had to abandon their residence and let them. some reports said they tied them to their wheelchairs in their beds and left. all of that false but once he gets on television it's true. it's true and ultimately that was a major battle that we had to fight trade one of the commentators who was the worst makes an appearance in my book, nancy grace. i've rename her in the book nancy disgrace because she printed nothing but falsehoods about sal and maple. they were seen shopping and they were in a casino. they were on a cruise ship to mexico. all of that false but that

exercise granted them a purpose to say what she wanted to. it destroyed the mangano's and denied them a fair and impartial trial. we will talk about that in a second. the media went mad. while the media was going bad we had politician that numbers who were sitting in the attorney general's office charles c. foti jr.. he is watching television and he sees this media madness and he sees a great opportunity. i'm going to go and arrest those folks in charge him with murder. he did that. of course he was running for re-election so that case then became a collision between the media who wanted these people strung up based upon the misinformation that they spread and a politically motivated prosecutor running for re-election. so those two forces, is there

anything stronger than the government in the media together? so they both jumped on this train and attacked a 65-year-old and in the 66-year-old grandma and grandpa who never ever thought it would happen. they had a reputation for the last 20 years of having the best nursing home in st. bernard parish, caring and loving folks but all of a sudden these folks were deer in the headlight of an 18-wheeler. they swam out of the nursing home with old people on their backs. they saved 24 lives. they would have liked to have saved them all are at extraordinary story all in the book in great detail. are we workable? play number one. ♪ >> my father was the nicest

gentlemen you would ever want to meet in your life. >> ple showed by example and love to spend time with us. a real-world model of how it should be. >> he had a little fall and went to the hospital and the doctor said he needs 24-hour care and you will have to look for facility. we secured a spot for him at st. rita's nursing home. >> it was one of the heartbreaks in my life that i had to deal with. >> sal and maple mangano rand st. rita's nursing home doing business for some 20 plus years. mabel maple was the administrator. this was a lady who physically

cared for these residents. >> to say we love to them was an understatement. >> we had lots of good good times in one bedtime. had everything one day and the next day it was gone. >> most of new orleans is underwater. >> hurricane katrina is a monster storm. >> no time to run, no place to hide. the water smashes into the nursing home with the force of a tidal wave. it's like a tsunami. it busted out the windows, busted out the doors. it took people out on mattresses lifting up of -- lifting them up onto the rep and putting them in boats. they save 24 residents. they would have liked to have saved them all.

>> it was only after that we found that the mangano's it never effectively did and only five of those elderly people died. >> drowned in a nursing home when they should've been evacuated. >> why did those 35 people died? because they were there. >> it was just more than i could bear. she just threw it all away. she gambled with their lives. >> sal and mabel and mangano are facing -. >> i felt like i was going to wake up soon and just felt like this couldn't be happening. >> they are guilty. >> or something incredibly unfair and un-american about picking up a grandma and grandpa and putting the suns of katrina

on them and only them. >> if convicted on all counts how much time we are clients get? >> one to two each. so when that happens it does get -- they will have to come through us. >> no way out. tonight's 48 hours mystery. >> that's a good one. if you want to go on line without the commercials, it's a pretty good one. it was one of the most popular ones of the year. so that sets the stage. what happens after that of course is the media, the politicians jump on board board. they are rest of sal -- sal and mabel mangano even though we had an agreement with the attorney general's office. i said nobody will charge them if they hear the story. the attorney general canceled the meeting and instead issued an arrest warrant for 35 counts of negligent homicide and right

around the corner from here on the horrible hot -- remember how hot it was after katrina? on the horrible hot saturday afternoon i surrendered sal and mabel to the investigators and the police. they took the 65-year-old grandma and grandpa. they put them spread-eagle on the front of the car patted them down like a common criminal and took them to jail. what happened after that was one year of fighting and fighting the attorney general then convened a grand jury in st. bernard parish in september of 2006, a year after the storm. it was the first duretta callback, the first judicial act that took place in st. bernard parish. he presented the evidence and the grand jurors returned to the courtroom with an indictment of 35 counts of negligent homicide in 24 counts of cruelty to the elderly and infirm. they charge them for being

charged with the people's lives we save. when the grand jury returned an indictment for women on the grand jury were openly in tears. so all of a sudden the stage is set in the battle is beginning, a one-year incredible battle. another reason i like to show you the video is because the most critical decision that we had to make was who can we put on this jury? we had a jury selections which the public doesn't know much about and to be honest most lawyers don't know much about either but we knew that this was going to be critical because of the publicity had been so pervasive and we knew we were in trouble. before that we have a motion for change of venue. we have the case taken out of the st. bernard. the case was transferred to a parish right up the road. my wife and i go to the café and have small margaritas. i spent a lot of time there. it was a five-week trial.

so it was transferred to the peerage. my colleagues and i commissioned not a trial or jury consultant that a political pollster the late great joe walker who was a genius and we did a poll of the peerage to gain the attitudes and what they knew about it etc.. it was terrible. 88% of people polled were familiar with the event. 88%. they had never seen the recognition factor that high in his career. 38% for quote very familiar with the events. of that number they had an opinion about guilt. 17% thought the owners were innocent. 72% felt they were guilty. of course this is a country where a defendant is cloaked with the presumption of innocence. we knew that 72% of the people thought they were guilty so we

almost wished we hadn't done the poll. one of the other things we did and by the way this was critical. we could not win the case in jury selection but we could visit in jury selection if we had the wrong person wind up on the jury. we ask him questions about who did the people we did the poll, there were three or 400 who did they think were most responsible? 79% said the pair should have sent emergency vehicles. this is the one that killed me, 38% felt that god was most responsible for the 35 death. 20% cited the owners, 7% cited the corps of engineers and what we wanted to do was take the 7% and turn it into 50% to get started -- to give ourselves a chance. one of the things we did we knew what we could prove so we asked the people in the poll would you

change your mind if you knew the owners had stayed. i talked to people today who say why did they leave those people? well, they didn't. so we can prove to you that the owner stayed with that change your opinion about guilt or innocence and the 72% of guilt talking to the 60s british that we can prove to you that no evacuation order was given with that change your opinion and it dropped into the 50s. if we can prove to that the nursing home was constructed to withstand hurricanes with that change your opinion quetta went to the low 50's and finally we asked them, if we could prove to you that the parish failed to pass flood warnings with that change your opinion? we knew there were some things we could prove that move the meter. not only a presumption of innocence because we didn't have that by the presumption guilt. as we get it in this was graphed

out in a six-foot long graph and we had responses male-female fight black educated etc. we could track each demographic about who we were having an impact within who we were. there was a column on the far right that no matter what we said it would not change their mind. no matter what we said. i asked my jury consultant, who were the guys here? who were they? they were people who had family members who had been in the nursing home. they had gotten fair or poor care which constitute 70% of the sample. 65% of the people in the poll had a family member in a nursing home, 65% in the room. there's more than 65% here so we had to identify and get rid of those folks and that was our task in the jury selection

process. ultimately we were successful in terms of getting rid of the folks who we knew could not vote not guilty no matter what. let me share with you a piece of the book. i was reading it this morning at 4:00 in the morning the same time i wrote the book, couple of years after that. as i told you about the wall of water hitting the nursing home not everybody got out. there were some people trapped inside afterwards. two of those folks were ms. thelma and ms. stein and the director of nursing and the assistant director of nursing did not get out. they're floating on furniture inside the darkened nursing home and 10 feet of water. this is what i wrote. the diabetic thelma had not eaten since early breakfast in her blood sugar was completely out of whack. i can't make it she said clinging to diane. i can't hold on any longer. whereupon she slowly slipped off the furniture into the water

that now covered the nursing station and disappeared. diane grabbed her by her hair and shoulders and pulled her back saying you are not going anywhere. diane hung onto, giving her the support she needed. about five minutes later a plastic container floated in front of them. diane grabbed it. it contained a loaf of bread that was meant to be eaten with red beans and rice at lunch. diane opened it and said, a couple of slices of bread providing the nurse when she needed to rebalance her blood sugar level and supplied her with some energy. the plastic container, believed was a gift from god intended to help her survive after she given up hope. she hung on. i'll wait to hear the sound of an outboard motor. they screamed in unison help we are here. shortly thereafter they could hear the sound of people walking on the roof. they continued to call out. the next thing they heard was a ferocious banging.

sal and some that the men had come back to the billing with makeshift tools and were cutting a hole in the metal roof. diane, thelma and three others were pulled out of the building place in a boat and taken to a his school. they have been saved thanks to sal's tenacity and ingenuity and a floating plastic container holding a loaf of white bread. it was interview i conducted with those guys. the book is about 320 pages of stories like that if you are interested. extraordinary confluence of government and media trying to find a scapegoat. remember what our defense was, we didn't hear the people were in the government resisted that in the media was caught up in the notion that they have branded these people as guilty. so they were invested in that outcome so when we went to trial

nobody thought they had a chance. nobody. the trial took five weeks. damien can we play the second part of video please? you folks do it but most folks don't. [videotape] if you ever tell me one you were going to evacuate? >> i told them we were sheltering in place and by the way that's the proper thing to do. >> to defend strategies to try to make a trial about government failures that led to the flooding of st. bernard parish. to make that point as dramatically as possible louisiana governor kathleen ronco is forced to testify. defense attorneys grilled her about testimony she gave to congress in december 2005. >> win louisiana no hurricanes and hurricane snow us. we would not be here today if the levees had not failed.

>> did you say that? was a true? >> yes. >> is it true now? i pointed that out to sal and mabel and they wouldn't be here either of the levees had not failed. the point was made. >> we were not going to talk about the mangano's. we were going to talk about everybody else. >> for four weeks prosecutors and defense attorneys wrestled over the issue of who is really responsible for the st. rita's tragedy get as the defense case draws to a close neither sal nor mabel takes the stand to tell their story even at the risk of a guilty verdict. >> it was just too fragile to testify but most importantly we thought we were winning the case. >> i think he would have been difficult for them to answer questions about their marketing plan. they were the only wanted to answer the questions. >> the typical back-and-forth between prosecutors and defense attorneys they made their closing arguments today. >> we are waiting on the jury.

the waiting is the hardest part. >> i think the state prove their case. >> as family members talk to the media they are shadowed by the mangano's son sal jr.. >> if they go to jail -- i need to get back and take care of the people. that's my job. get him away from me. >> i think everybody is wearing their emotion on their sleeves right now. this has been a long and hard fight for everybody. >> after three and a half hours and ironically as a thunderstorm strikes there is a verdict. >> would you please stand up and i felt like my niece are going to go out from under me. i just felt i can't do this anymore. >> the verdict is swift and decisive. not guilty on all 118 counts.

>> oh dear lord. >> we started crying. >> with the mangano's and their legal team is complete vindication. >> our first thoughts were about the residents and their family members. not a day has gone by since august the 29th, 2005 that we have not thought about them, miss them and prayed for them. >> for the families of those who died at st. rita's it's another devastating blow. >> this jury didn't find him guilty that when they meet their make or they will never be able to get out of it. >> i'm sorry for their suffering that we are suffering too. >> despite their victory the mangano's are most like others in st. bernard parish left to pick up the pieces of their

broken lives. >> i regret that we -- but the decision was made. we can't go back. >> the mangano's have to go to bed every night and put their head on the pillow and i know what my dreams are like. i have no idea what their dreams are like. >> forgiveness is a hard thing. maybe in time that will come. sometimes we have to forgive ourselves first and then we can find forgiveness with the mangano's. ♪ >> of course everybody sued when the case was over.

the book "flood of lies" won the -- and if you like a murder mystery whodunit even though they didn't do it and it's great to see you on a very early morning in baton rouge and thank you for coming. any questions? there's a chapter called divine intervention which i refer you to. it was a complete i call it coincidence. mabel who was deeply religious said it just like this, he sent you to me and thought i was her guardian angel. we didn't know the mangano's and they didn't know us. i had never represented them. it was a long circuitous route.

i'm watching the news in houston as they are pulling the bodies out of st. rita's. anybody else? >> where were the levees? >> the levees break the mississippi river gulf outlet. it was the idiotic thing the corps of engineers did, south, correct. they have rebuilt the levels and closed it. nursing home come this a great question. he asked how are sal and mabel? they are okay. they fix fixed their homes and they are back in their homes at the nursing home remains empty. anybody else? we are going to be at the barnes & noble tent at 10:45 or 11:00 in the public content at 1:00. we would love to see you up there.

thanks for coming out. thanks very much. [applause] thanks for coming, it's great to see you. >> next from baton rouge michelman martin talks about former wheezy and senator russell long. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. my name is sharon. and with volunteers with the book festival. welcome this morning to this book talk. i want to remind you to turn off your cell phones and no food and

drink. our hostess asked us for that. on behalf of the state library of louisiana and louisiana center for the book we welcome you to the 11th annual louisiana book festival. i'm happy to say that the publisher of michael martin's book is here this morning to introduce michael. his name is steve yates. he's with the university press of mississippi. >> thanks very much and thanks all of you for coming out. i am the assistant director and marketing director at university press of mississippi. headquartered in jackson the press is the publishing expression of the eight state universities of mississippi founded in 1970. we now published over 200 author creations each year in traditional print and print on demand and in electronic book forms. i am so proud to introduce

michael s. martin the author of a biography "russell long: a life in politics." dr. martin may very well be the wearer of more hats than any scholar i've worked with in 21 years at the university press. dr. martin is the director of the center for louisiana studies which also is the director of an exceptional and competitor pre press, university press of mississippi. the university of louisiana at lafayette press and he is the board of regents professor in history at the university of louisiana at lafayette. if you haven't caught your breath yet he's also the managing editor of louisiana history. somehow in and among all those many hours and obligations he squeezed in the writing of the

first scholarly biography of russell long a united states senator who are deeply in his longevity and influence became more powerful than any previous louisiana politician and this includes his father huey long and his mother who served as senator many years ago on the campus of the university of arkansas where he shared space but do not know each other. historian randall woods pointed out how little the life of russell long had been treated by historians held loud and proud i am that dr. martin has corrected this and he chose university press of mississippi to help him tell this story. michael s. martin everyone. [applause] >> thank you steve.

it's my pleasure to be here at the louisiana book festival. this is now my fifth year in a row that i've attended this and the second time i have participated on such a panel or giving a presentation. my book which is here for you to look at his investigation of russell long's public life over the four decades that followed his swearing into the united states senate and places him within the context of louisiana southern and national politics during the 20th century. before we talk about the context and that will be the gist of my discussion today would like to provide a brief overview of his life. at thing you should know about the book is that it is not a pure biography and a sense in not covering the entirety of his life and times. i don't spend a whole lot of time on his personal life but because of his family connections of course it needs to be said. russell long was born into a

become the most important political family in louisiana history on november 3, 1918. in shreveport his father who was at that moment running for his first elected office to the railroad commission would serve successively as a rover commissioner public service commissioner governor and then the united states senator before his assassination in 1935. russell's father, hugh is death influence politics for the next two and a half decades and propel the sun into a political career that would reach the highest levels of national pow power. russell's mother rose mcconnell long spent 11 months as a u.s. senator herself fulfilling the last portion of her late husband's term and of course russell's uncle earl served as governor from 1939 through 19403 that was following the scandal tainted resignation and earl did terms in 1948 in

1956. it was in this world of politics the russell long came of age. long attended public schools shreveport baton rouge and new orleans and then a role that lsu where he developed his own political skills or campus government. russell completed a law degree at lsu in 1942 and then joined the united states navy and served out the remainder of world war ii. he received for battle starts before being discharged november of 1945 and returning to louisiana. back in louisiana he established a law practice with one of his former lsu law school buddies. he began to grow with his family and he became engaged in baton rouge social and civic activities. i would like to address the changeover change over 1948 when his uncle earl -- in 1948

russell long campaign for the election of his uncle oral and louisiana. russell long won that election and new year's eve 1948 long who is 38 years old and was the only senator to have had both of his parents precede him in office was sworn into the senate. he would be elected in 1952 e-zone full-term re-election every six years until his retirement in 1987. as a member of long's most famous and influential political family and is the son of perhaps the most famous louisiana and of all times russell long's political career seemingly was preordained. the long family were in liaison

politics and the family retained and notoriety that was rivaled only by the kennedys in massachusetts in the 20th century. it seemed particularly all this son of huey long simply could not be on political in this state. russell long significance to louisiana's political history comes from his position within the anti-long factionalism that emerged in the 1940s and 1950s but it's also important for his attempts to transcend or break down those factional boundaries particularly in the period from 1948 until 1960. long played an active role in louisiana's internal politics first as special counsel to his uncle and his partner with two well-known anti-long chet morrison in the 1951 and 52 governor's race. they were campaigning for

candidacy for governor. finally as one of the major actors in the confinement of uncle earl tour mental institution in 1959. that last episode earl's breakdown and institutionalization left russell long with a bitter distaste for louisiana politics. he distanced himself from the internal politics in a state for most of the rest of his career although he continued to work for the state's benefits from his seat in the u.s. senate. the politics russell long practiced differ dramatically from that of his father and uncle. the stances he took in the legislation he proposed and a deal to broker during his 38 year career all point to a political philosophy rooted in practicality and pragmatism. in part that demonstrated long's own political proclivities unlike you he or earl. he was neither terribly stubborn

nor was he ruthless as both of those meant to be but his politics also reflected his context of which was the united states senate from the beginning of the cold war through the era of ronald reagan. long entered the senate with the so-called class of 1948. a group that included lyndon johnson, robert kerr paul douglas quentin anderson and hubert humphrey davies are men who would dominate the upper house for the following three decades and were for the most part champions of what historians refer to as the new deal liberal consensus. this new deal liberal consensus is defined by multiple connections to political stances but mainly the stances would be these. a firm belief that active government can be good for the citizens of the state, he believed that keynesian economics and i will talk a bit about that in a moment are the best for the country. the belief that the state providing for the welfare of its

citizens or social welfare legislation is proper and necessary and finally the belief that he's liberal and i use that term in the mid-20th century way, liberal american value should be exported elsewhere in the world. long himself rose to a prominent position on the foreign relations committee. he rose to the chairmanship of the senate finance committee and to the post of democratic majority clip. i think for the most part he can actually be placed in the new deal liberal consensus camp but that is only true to a certain extent. while he was a member of this class of 48 he is also a member of the racially conservative southern block. those affiliations with conservatism and liberalism might seem remarkable particularly given the context of our own political day but for russell long and even for some of his southern colleagues

liberalism on the one on the one-handed conservatism on the other was not only normal, it was a necessity. indeed for long and other politicians of the mid-20th mid-20th century the most practical political stance was to support liberalism and social welfare programs which were tremendously popular and terribly necessary in their home states while maintaining it stands of defiance on any changes to the so-called southern way of life. in other words segregation and disfranchisement. changes to the southern way of life would have been extraordinarily popular of course with the southern white voters who form the massive electoral majority through the 1960s. to return to russell long's career. during his first four years in the senate he developed a pragmatic political philosophy while simultaneously supporting new deal liberalism on matters of domestic and foreign-policy all the while stating his allegiance to the southern block

with conservative stances on civil rights. in the early part of long senate career it was mark bias maintaining a strong connection as i said a moment ago to louisiana's internal politics although that would wane after the end of the 1960s. in the senate by the mid-and late 1950s long held key posts on the finance and foreign relations committee sent from most committees he continued to enunciate stances that were quite liberal and taxation policies social welfare policy infrastructure improvement cold war diplomacy. the same time he boosted his credentials as this conservative southern with public attacks on the brown versus board decision the supreme supreme court itself in the burgeoning civil rights movement. his advocacy for the state of louisiana in the 1950s centered especially on the dispute between the federal and state governments over ownership of oil deposits in the tidelands off the coast. his last major involvement with internal state politics as i mentioned a moment ago came in the aftermath of uncle earl's

breakdown. from this point on roughly 1964 word long devoted himself to rising in the ranks of u.s. senate to buy the latter half of the 1960s he was serving a senate finance chair and his majority whip he had been instrumental in ushering through the passage much of lyndon johnson's great society program although he publicly opposed the portions known as the second reconstruction. long stances on the cold war had hardened following the bay of pigs invasion and by the time the johnson administration was escalating american involvement in vietnam yet firmly placed himself within the so-called hawk camp. in 1969 long lost as majority whip position but through his chairmanship of the finance committee he became one of the senate's most powerful individuals during the 1970s. taxation policy and social welfare legislation.

any proposal to create your reform any sort of legislation within those rounds had long's thumbprint on it by the time he came out of that committee. he was said and this is a "quote to note the tax code the way the pope knows the lord's prayer. precedence than do his will on matters of fiscal policy and adjusted with them over energy policy and social welfare legislation all coming out on the winning end. the 70 shows that long's practical politics were still in full force as he was just as likely to form a strong working relationship with republicans as democrats and he was a lifelong democrat and would be until the day he died. he was just as willing to work with conservatives as people who define themselves as liberal. that willingness to transcend political boundaries was becoming rare by the 1970s however.

both political parties were becoming polar positioned on the major issues of the day. by the election of ronald reagan in 1980 those polls have become further apart and crystallized around certain ideological stances. reagan's coattails brought a republican majority to the senate and as a result long lost his chairmanship on the finance committee in 1980 after having held it for 15 years. yet they continue to work both sides of political fence engaging in give-and-take over the reagan administration's fiscal and diplomatic and economic policies. this was the twilight of long's career however and he retired in 1987. in his retirement years long remained active in national politics as a lobbyist for various interest groups. when he was working he divided his time between a ranch atop the rattlesnake mountain in virginia. he had an apartment in washington d.c. and a farm outside of baton rouge. he died on may 9, 2003.

so what about russell long's national political context? clearly his role as a senator places him in a much different context than the other political members of his family including kiwi. including huey at least from his senate seat was negligible. it was much more important for what he did outside of the senate than what he does inside of the senate. russell however had a positive or negative effect on most major legislation during his career particularly after rising to the ranks of the finance committee to become its chair. he will do great influence on taxation and social welfare issues. his remarkable grasp of political give-and-take in the mechanisms by which the senate worked often provided him the upper hand in passing legislation that he supported. in the end russell long's bother

had been viewed as a maverick troublemaker in the united states senate. russell becomes one of the ultimate senate insider's. long 38 political career is one example of a type of practical politics that was to my mind, and among many if not most national politicians of the mid-20th century. before the hardening of ideology within the two main parties conservatism among the republicans and liberalism among the democrats this ability to shift between conservative and liberal stances was not just common, it was expected. so what about those stances? how might we define long as both liberal and conservative? long's liberal stances on social welfare issues such as social security, medicare and so forth might have been expected given the fact that his family were the long's and his political background. what is more russell long

becomes a political age so to speak in an era dominated by the new deal inspiron liberal consensus. the notion that government can do good for the people of the nation and economic growth rather than forced redistribution can resolve poverty and the nsa should actively export its political and governmental philosophies around the world. long was very comfortable with those things and in fact he championed most of them. those are the basic facets of new deal liberalism. his conservatism i be considered more curious and it might be tempting for us to situate long's politics as being in the vanguard of the emerging new life that comes about in the 1960s and 1970s and ultimately comes to fruition in 1980. in fact at the outset of my research that is what i fully expected to find that russell long being a southern white politician of the mid-20th century was going to be uniformly conservative and there would be the sort of flow from

long into the conservatism that really becomes this dominant trend in the republican party party in the 70s. but i found out i was mistaken. it was based on the research i discovered it was in grad. long certainly took a strong stance on things like national defense. he was an avid cold warrior. these things can't be denied and it's clear from going through his papers and looking at his public pronunciation, enunciation sunna stances that this is true. but the stances which we might today equate with conservatism, conservatism being that the military big national defense, in reality long was lining up with some of the chief liberals of his day including harry truman, john kennedy and lyndon johnson. so strong defense postures. looking back he might seem conservative but in reality they were not. what is more along never pander to the religious right.

the key component of the new right's political coalition even after the rise of the more majority he basically ignored them or ridicule them saying they have no place in politics. the basic fact of the matter is that long who has a very public persona as united states senator said very little publicly on matters of things like school prayer or abortion. long supported and in some instances led the charge for every major tax cut between 19641986. again, today the party of tax cuts, the republican party the idol did -- ideology of tax that seems to to be conservatism so we might expect such such stances would put place him at the forefront of what became known as the tax revolt. long's position tax cuts reflected a particular understanding of how those cuts should work and they are very different from modern conservatism understanding of

tax cuts. long basically have to believe the tax cut should be temporary. they were designed to spur spending by returning money to the middle and lower classes as opposed to the upper classes and at the same moment he cuts taxes he increased government spending to provide more of a spur to the economy. long stances even though he supported tax cuts and quite often proposed them and push them through, is fundamentally different from the new wright's understanding of the tax cuts. ..

>> >> that government isn't the solution to our problems but government is the problem. that is the most basic understanding to be fundamentally disagreement of that statement. and big government functioning could be used to help the most needy in society. whole of course, he was

conservative. but had much more do it to the state and regional context and they of the national context especially during the '50s and '60s when it came to civil-rights legislation. and there is no denying that put them in the conservative camp with the social view when he came of he reflected a particular understanding this is understood from other politicians as well. that you could be voted out of office. although that is not necessarily true. he also understand -- and

understood that plath voters as they were in franchise in the '50s and in louisiana had a substantial amount of black voters so russell doing those things stood up to say some change needs to happen. and then to be reelected for the election and i bring that up mitt is also more concerned of what is happening in the south. in very similar terms to lyndon johnson.

but there are some occupations from these two presidents but the reality is it shows not only to be

reelected in have longevity but also because of quite powerful.

we have very few minutes of their questions or comments i will be happy to entertain them. can you say anything about the relationship with russell long and edwards? >> they were political allies although long was hands off with state politics. is specially by that point. earlier in his career he entertained running for governor and later he would also but it is a situation where they really worked in different political context. he would support edwards when necessary so i am sure

there would have been dealings with the senator but from this very clear power structure if you have a senator in office 25 years and a representative. the long and short of it is there is not a lot to say they're both democrats and work together and campaigned when necessary. >> did you cover the employee stock ownership program? >> yes. it started off as a theory of how the working-class could become involved in the capitalistic system by

offering investments and whatever company there working for. that had appeal because russell long although he never would have discussed touche share the wealth, he always understood there is a problem in the united states to have a vast majority of of their kids to are not invested in a literal sense in the places that they work for. all day have his labor, not capital. this is the way to be capitalized. and he thought it was no way to share the wealth within a highly different way. so it would be painful for a small group of americans.

i do talk about it quite a bit it is spread throughout the chapters of the '70s and '80s. one reason he was willing to go along with the raised -- reagan administration fiscal administration because he said i will make sure there is benefits to the employee stock ownership plan so is the pet project at a time and it was forward thinking for the day. any other questions? spee mickey will be citing your book in the barnes & noble tennant. figgie for being here. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> my husband and i volunteers here and on behalf of the state library we welcome you to the 11th annual louisiana book festival. this book talk will be assigned c-span leader and booktv is here and erin will introduce our speaker. please turn off your cell

phones. now we will introduce our speaker. >> good morning. and the marketing communications manager for ls you press. we are excited you are here today. they're presence underscores what university publishers due to publish work that resonates with the bourbon street as a prime example of that. richard is a professor at the school look architecture and the author of seven books of the northlands and a two-time winner of the louisiana endowment and has a fellowship from tulane.

and is active on twitter i encourage you to follow him. the book is better the you can learn about his tweets about new orleans. we will focus on the most recognizable street in the u.s. i am proud to introduce the author of bourbon street [applause] >> hundreds of millions. that is how many people over the last two generations have crammed themselves into the artery of the third coast. one of the most famous streets in the nation known worldwide a metaphor in the english-language teheran to the success of a whole city. people now parade up and

down because a shrewd locals to think about what pleasure them with police and pontiff decatur's. the street is named bourbon in this city is new orleans. for sun that image has hedonism and history others is crass and offensive. nobody is lukewarm they'll love it or loathe it. it is a treasure trove of american history in creole architecture in a social phenomenon and is as old does the city itself and is better rouses the french and spanish colonial era combined. and ebert mystery is almost entirely ignored by scholars tavis single book has been written about its history much less academic

investigation despite is a hot topic worldwide for anthologies and films such as katrina. the oversight is not accidental. the most serious researchers use a patronizing reminder to their readers a does not represent authentic new orleans and that is richard solutions must be set aside. i used to say things like that myself. by march obediently to the be until i study the historical geography of new orleans 20 years ago the then i think of that as a freak show looked at cultural negative space. and i denounced its authenticity was if i was in charge of reality.

but i have long been curious about its inner workings but would change my perception was hurricane katrina one side of life came across the airwaves earliest they came from bourbon street. a bar remained open and was a community focus. sweaty neighbors joining in the managed is miles. soon nearby a clubs opened for to those trying to resuscitate the city. being the largest and happiest place in the city it provides counterpoints better seen worldwide. the first place that they turn on the music and put on the party face. in my mind per mystery is of

itself. and with that nocturnal entertaining how does it work? why do so many people love it or despise it? there had to be an interesting story of all the questions privately and finally in 2010 i would figure out how bourbon street have been in that was my original title and tell the press changed the title. so let me paint a picture of the 300 year history. if you were wrong on bourbon street the with the grid of

the french quarter laid out three years later in the antebellum era you would not have see the of the hedonism or indulgence we associate it was the typical downtown artery and unexceptional. mixted come, prosaic, class or race distribution distribution, architecture rates in the middle. it is the front of town or the back of town historically where power was closest to the river and the back of town was the opposite. but where the action was with said geographies of indulgence they tended to be

on the periphery, wealthy people the power was in the inner core. this change with the layout of the garden district but along the periphery you have lower income of immigrants immigrants, this city with out in all directions the and the antecedent of bourbon street. see how the french quarter, the back of town and in front of town. these bases are on the outskirts. going straight back behind the french quarter. and franklin street is a really rough area. coming to the back of the town where the hospital is

today there was of a cluster of brothels and absolutions and one was called the swap and this is where the drugs were. and people let their hair down and it was extremely rough. it was a lot more violent than and unregulated. event that connected with the area of gambling and fighting. then on the lower side of town the antecedent would be right around the french market that is incredibly violent. it is now gone and called french marketplace. so look at the peripheral geography but most of it is the stable economy and

stable families. bourbon street had a mix of lower class and middle-class and a mix of races within close proximity with cultural amenities. chief among these is that it landed the french opera house this civil war starts a couple of years later but the circumstances are to change. monday is defeated and power and wealth starts to move out of the french quarter in particular to move into the suburbs. in the french quarter because of this rougher and the geography that was on the periphery is now from the inner core. right after the civil war

coming out of england or possibly france is called a concert saloon. it is live music, almost think of it as an english concert hall. one of the innovations of for the women to serve alcohol to the men in the audience. with this environment that you would see leveraged in to do bourbon street of today. there is one that you would think of as the first in another one on royal with casino halls and associated with the new vice was

ubiquitous prostitution and so much so in 1857 they tried to control touse orchestra alike -- circumscribe it was radically of variance to buy an alderman who came up with a much more effective technique. instead of banning from the vast areas to push it to the back of town, they came up with this idea of creating it throughout the city except a 20 block period that coincided in the back of town area around franklin. so that became storyville and of the premier geography. you probably know how prostitution was in this area but a few years later the ordinance was amended

that conserves saloons had to go there as well and it was the upper class quarter added disadvantage that businesses were moved. for the next 50 years storyville was overwhelmingly having the changes. around 1910 storyville stars to get violent. there is an adjacent area the kids in increasingly bad reputation. then in 1970 of an accounting of u.s. navy putting pressure in the world is. so the story chefs then gravitates organically to where it was to the upper french quarter originally. this was the we are bumper quarter around ramparts but

there were price crackdowns and at that point that purpose street came up with interesting innovation and once again. that was the night club band it arrived here who learned of it in and he also got that the male engendered places but what was revolutionary about the nightclubs, remember this was the vat and 20's with suffrage and women are trying to change and notions

of gender and sex that these our gender integrated spaces. instead of being a place he would go to to get drunk now mitt was exclusive you were prior to take your dates there it was exclusivity there is a doorman and a barrier id you went inside and those that were a bandwidth and identity trying to make a name. sova nightclubs became popular in the '20s and bourbon street had a geographical advantage they started to cluster on bourbon street. by the '30's by prohibition of bars and saloons cluster there's so bourbon street was starting to become notorious locally but was then known with the rest of the nation.

there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers during world war ii but even millions more are taking the are in are from southern boot camp they gravitate to the place that serves alcohol a of the shows a man to world war ii on questionably rockets bourbon street into new national infamy in becomes a household word. in the next 20 years is the golden age of the burlesque year over the top places. but the reason why is they are artificially subsidized by ellis says streams of income. one is from a scheme that was practiced ad nauseam where dancers or waitresses would have patients by

extremely overpriced drinks up at $200 for a bottle of champagne then they would trade them of their many then they would take them out back and steal the of many. that was number one and number two was illegal cabling. lottery, perhaps, of being go, machines come the dice, it was generated in the 40's through the '60s. but it was a defacto capital in into behind it was organized crime. living on or near it 80 years before it became a team and mine dash famous in leaving as the cradle of the

american mafia. but until he turned over power known as silver dollar city of. but the rackets were local or regional serve 1833 with the senator defended the new york law boss. he needed funding for his political machine. and he asked to bring their racket to louisiana and officials will guilty of their way. it was tempting and the fact that mayor of the korea was and there is the unevenness safe place to invest to launder money. and then to facilitate the deal to coordinate with castillo and castle, the mixtures of machines were

appearing in bars and clubs while pop death just over the parish life and places like the same bernard. in the senate kept was generated millions of dollars. it was well on its way to become head destination and that already garnered prohibition to become the perfect murder center to nurture a criminal empire. while controlling said jefferson st. bernard operations both needed local help of negative from the mayor. they got it from a tunisian

and bore a sicilian with a familiar story. in a mob of fashion he would align himself with the right people. for decades to come he would preside over illicit money making procedures while hiding in plain sight. during his reign that the region grew into their career money-laundering session as headquarters for the mafia and due to investments around in the area form bourbon street. makes it difficult to ascertain if it was invented gore run by a organized crime with local oversights coming from jefferson parish. however i believe that organized crime goes too far

suffice it to say midcentury bourbon street goes through the 1960's depending on illicit activity to generate the excess for which it becomes famous. that wynans a share had direct or indirect ties to organized crime so what happens? jim garrison. of the jfk fame, it had been around by performers in shine the light during the campaign speeches he calculated quite correctly that the left during more costly operations and could only turn handed to profit with money-making schemes of the side. but over the next two years

achieved all of the above and all the burlesque and nightclubs would padlock their doors and now they were not subsidize. many became strip joints and the pager ditch was shifting away from middle-class couples with cash to hippies on a budget. they tried to him but bourbon street was in trouble within in 1967 there is a better idea. instead the convincing people outside why not give inside drinks to the people outside? window hawking and it grew as they would open in tiny outlets from which i sold beer and corn dogs and hotdogs.

retailers in to bring the average j darr into the hot summer night between indoor and outdoor space. food and debris and dixie cups with the public health nuisance. the modern day bourbon street today are traceable through the '60s or '70s and to the shift of the geography of drinking. but then to clear the way of the sale of alcohol industry forever changing bourbon street and then they mandated plastic cups thus was born the go cup isn't it

i have an introduction to the end of the book that is non judgmental so i am curious sarah everyone around them they want to know. people hate it for entirely different reasons. the progress citizen of the left but then to have commercialization lowe's since the open but left was of culture. the rights but while the

nature tends to defer hating bourbon street that is what they compare -- do not like as long as they do not compare notes. [laughter] but then it emerges as a refreshing phenomenon. of the artifacts that we see today originates organically there is no logo or headquarters our visitors center or even a brochure. the night life that made the street famous was created spontaneously to in the end corrugated attempt to make a living in an era defined by a globalization.

bourbon street is a self organizing network with the central nervous system the self correcting system in debut lee -- brutally efficient marketplace that represents the triumph of an order bottom up rather than a top down in the case study of uncivil compromise. it is adaptable and resilient and after katrina it shows to the world's cameras the our human heart was still beating in this experiment called the world listens. not only was the city alive the resource will. the adversity has universal appeal and to demonstrate that to become the essential

narrative of the recovery to the rest of the world so unabashedly i loved bourbon street part zero i will leave it there. thank you. [applause] >> he was an alderman at the time that is the equivalent of a member of the city council. the go cup emerged, and no, no, no. >> with the property ownership to the mid 19th century? >> in some cases before the most part much of the french

quarter is in the hands of ownership. i have about seven or eight old sicilian names that still occupy the french quarter but in many cases the family still owns them but they have moved out to the suburbs. one building where there's 23 different checks to pay the rent through all dissidents for their ownership. so they're not necessarily the occupants. but not necessarily the voters. >> the 600 block the? >> it has residential mansions at the heart of this trip.

there is a doctor and his family living there. but my understanding is they have a new order. and they have known that for a long time. as a first american governor >> is there any evidence the mob is still involved? >> no. most "in-depth" analysis of any sort of crime because then what did you mean by organized crime? but the notion of what this means but was gambling in

the '80s and '90s. so both assessments declares it to be an unknown but but he is sinking in that area. we will wrap up their. thanks. [applause] >> he will be signing his book in the barnes & noble tennant. thank you for coming. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> good morning i enjoyed by mitt has been the hour volunteers at the louisiana book festival. , i'm happy to welcome you to the 11th annual louisiana book festival on behalf of the state library of louisiana of. if you have not done so already please turn off yourself lowe's.

david johnson is here to introduce our speaker. >> thank you. it is the pleasure to be here in case you haven't noticed as the complementary issue we are in lock that includes an excerpt i encourage you to read that. but the title empire of sinn , how can you go wrong? so let me introduce our writer.

written for the new york times the "washington post", of the book world and author of the white cascade in this issue kaufman prize and a gold medal for travel journalist in fellowship for national endowment of the arts please welcome our writer. [applause] >> thank you. i of very happy to be here at the louisiana book festival. i did most of my research in new orleans but nobody told me it would be so cold. but i will talk for about 25

minutes in reading one expert -- excerpt. end then i'll have a couple of questions. empire of sinn, i did consider to put one more sexy element may be vampires but there was an idea for a. but i like to think there is serious history through the book. into even call it the most unique place. how and why it became unique it is focusing on the 30 year period.

with the city's wealth the anglo-american with the tried to normalise new orleans so it tried to make a respectable and we know how that turned out so what made this city unusual in the first place? as all of you know, it began as the french outposts in the 1700's. for the first century it was a little piece of france on the north american continent. and in order to preventive falling into the british fans. the central city was destroyed that had to be

rebuilt that is why the architecture of the french quarter is actually spanish. but to the united states to remain distinctive and their character. with the municipal administrations. but the cosmopolitan attitudes towards sex and race. and with the more protestants we wonder with a little suspicion with a stranger in somewhat disturbing plays.

we're wealthy white men go. into a place in back alleys. brothels with interracial sex or sexual practices and is a deeply entrenched culture the simplifies by the underworld that eventually became the real thing. did then one who came to new orleans spend time here the way back to tell the parishioners it is no easy matter to go to heaven by way of new orleans. [laughter] is with the late 18 '80s the reform community with middle

and upper class not for inter spanish white but something had to be done about the situation. with the glory days of the antebellum period to make new orleans the queen city of the south those days are gone with federal occupation has taken a heavy toll on the economy the city was deeply in debt but do arlen's had fallen back word mistreats were still badly paved in few people had

running water. sauce with the blunt observation were lins was the first major metropolis to build the opera house with the souders system. this city desperately needed in the period -- an upgrade. that the northern capitalists were reluctant with the exotic hot house city they did not see it as a good business prospects. so they decided we have to make your lens into an orderly more businesslike place so they decided we need to go against those disruptive elements that

give the city a bad reputation. one part of the campaign involves the notorious crime problem under control and of what they called the of mafia i collop the sicilian underworld even the lower portion of the french quarter. a second part of this campaign that meant suppressing the african-american and population with the knicks raised population which for a long time had a special status they decided we need to stop it with that jim crow legislation going into effect and also the city's

jazz culture. we think of jazz as easy and fun music but it was morally corrupt then and had to be controlled concern times there was talk of prohibiting jazz like you would prohibit alcohol a few years later. so the third part of the reform campaign involves doing something about the prostitution. this was never a minor problem but by the 1880s it was out of hand. before this time with prosecution by gambling in down by though modified as a periphery where they could

be avoided by respectable people. but these activities began migrating data the traditional neighborhoods into reputable commercial and residential districts all over the city. you can see the cover right there. with the social evils rampant in our midst are coming up all over this city but has woken up some morning to find a house next door those that aroused use obscene language it was unusual and innovative.

to abolish prostitution did just would not work. so instead they would concentrate did isolate and regulate the trade by throwing it out of the central portions where it would be less visible but the man who came up with this idea through that 18 block area behind the french quarter and downriver, he wrote an ordinance making prostitutprostitut ion in illegal everywhere except in that one area. he did not legalize prostitution anywhere and it

made it much more less vulnerable to a court challenge. the area was officially known much better known as storyville to the alderman's and orients but if you listen to the oral history through the jazz archives from tulane, he would hear a lot said we whole dead as the red light district. something that mostly white people said. but the red light district but anyway storyville opens officially for business to refers to commit 8098. for the first few years they were satisfied with their social experiment. but for the most part it

concentrated the activities to keep out of sight. but unfortunately for the reformers storyville eventually became quiet be popular and they began to realize we created a monster. far from lowering their profile of prostitution storyville became world famous as the liveliest and shame on bass / most shameful of the red light district. but the interesting development was what you might call a class of cinders new tech advantage of the permissive atmosphere

but many people were working class many were african-american and the is the three groups did not achieve success but the women who rue have the fancy barack also made a lot of money during these years. one was josie the queen, she started life as an orphan selling apples on august 3 but eventually made enough money as a brothel madam to build herself a big white mansion where she was over of the upper-middle-class women. but there were also african-american success stories the next way to raise proprietress and one

who also had one on base in st. as had economic standish sincere with the working-class african american women so probably the most successful was day character of horatio algers who rose to become the vice llord of new orleans. with cabarets nor bars or restaurants and became to be known as the unofficial mayor of storyville. you also had success in the

legitimate economy and was the representative for 20 years right ahead -- right here in the house of louisiana representative is. imagine that. the louisiana legislature. [laughter] strange and hard to imagine. [laughter] to give some idea what storyville was like i would like to reassure a selection. the first few pages of a chapter that begins with a quotation from the "times picayune". by 1905 this city of new orleans was said and increasing portion has

departed the daily peaky and had feared. would it was the factory of sinn does any lumber mill that the 230 brothels and scores of warm rooms could process the of raw material of sexual desire at the astonishing rate of speed. i will tell you five minutes was a long time to spend in one of those rules. from the time of the front door to the back barely took 50 minutes there you were standing with no place to go but maybe home and no money in your pocket and whole was the last place you wanted to go. [laughter] in churning day and night it

is like something nobody has ever seen before or since the door was taken off for one year to the next. even the crib women would march back and forth from the shift like factory workers progress louis armstrong recalled. . .