ethnicity and asian-americans who lived and other places. so it is still segregated a west side and east side and sell sides with is still struggling but as we get more immigrants in this country and outside of the country we are evolving. >> worry teaching says professor? >> i am on leave but somber i will teach a class on film and slavery. >> host: talking with

professor stevenson and the book "the contested murder of latasha harlins" justice, gender, and the origins of the la riots" you are watching booktv on c-span2. >> host: kate bowler is the author of "blessed" a history of the american prosperity gospel". >> guest: an offshoot of pentecostal religion and has a special vocabulary how

faith reaches out to the invisible to bring back materials. >> host: what is pentecostal? >> of movement in the early 20th century rough-and-tumble openness to spiritual that focuses on the power of god of spiritual tongs but it is the mentality that god is around the corner so looks for slightly different things. >> host: does prosperity gospel mean wealth? >> there is material they said the body was god's home he was profoundly american you're not just in individual but someone that could baa manifestation of god's presence so they said

this could be interpreted even more concrete not just with your health but finances to help christians sing through every detail was proof that god was there. >> host: is uniquely american? >> in some ways it is indigenous with rugged individualism and supranatural bootstraps with incredibly high anthropology. with no nation for what they can accomplish. >> host: you are some of the preachers of the prosperity gospel? do they call it that? >> guest: i would include joel osteen, t.d. jakes, joyce meyer

meyer, frederick christ christ, everywhere there is dave meggett church and the local celebrity but the term is controversial they don't want to be called that and that was the way to write the book have with a naturally resist that label? >> i managed to visit one quarter of what i identified as a major church i interviewed someone representing the ministry in which to every major conference i was pushed up against the glass to see what is going on. >> host: what did you hear or what was the message that they were preaching? >> said it was not so much about money surely this is

the gospel about money but people did not talk about it as much as i expected with that excitement that every special detail was give been god's attention but the budget and the family is the happiness and promotions were worthy of spiritual attention. >> host: what does that have to do with prosperity? >> they call it whole life. in theological terms we would say that we see more of the presence of the kingdom of god here on earth but questions think most of the good stuff happens after we die.

>> host: but what you give god gives back tenfold? >> guest: the search for the number is tricky. most of the hard numbers there is a few concrete numbers but the desire is mostly to look for a spiritual formula. so where there is a number there they will try to find but for the most part prosperity preachers try to shy away from the numbers because of a greater sense that we do live in a concrete financial universe.

>> host: why a make church? >> there is already a database of those that exist so i could go through every one on every web site to pull them out to make my own list based on shared rhetoric or connections they go to the same conference is our get the same doctor it and i figure if they look and walk and talk like prosperity than i could lump them together on my own did that make church become that way because they preach prosperity? >> guest: the relationship between fund-raising and a large church seems to be a natural ally. sometimes we will find a smaller church and then

becomes a prosperity may get church but the naked church is not the prosperity gospel purpose of the 1600 only a minority our prosperity. but what is unusual is when we domine the upper tier the influence is enormous leg the top of a fuel period that looked to the for inspiration and so the message is far beyond what you would expect the local preacher. >> host: lake would church joel osteen 38,000 is the average weekly attendance in houston texas. college park torture and 30,000, 30,000 t.d. jakes are those prosperity gospel church is? >> guest: absolutely any

of those that i used as a shorthand are all prosperity churches and most make the top 50. >> host: all tax-exempt? >> guest: there are jeopardy real in spirit the churches themselves are tax-exempt but they put the church in to a profit a year and not for profit wings because as a producer and writer has a film writer and has been under is it different pots. that is the taxable side so don't look at me as an example i take that many of the coffer and make my money from the other wing. sometimes that is true but lester for others did not

have to justify how much money they make because of the theological infrastructure they just have to say i do it and i can show you how to do it and more is more to show you the way. >> host: speaking of president bush's inaugural windsor village united methodist church 14,000 houston and texas. >> guest: is this a surprise that in order to demonstrate how widespread take into account those that are nondenominational but even some of the denominational ones we will find at least one prosperity made church disciples of christ, methodist we adjust shriver presbyterian somewhere.

>> host: when did the prosperity gospel, first of all, is their political philosophy? >> guest: but they do it is a subset because he think of them to have a different niche. so for this we will have a subset that overlap. for the most part they need to talk nuts and bolts because god has offered the end run around the system so we need to get serious about their fate. >> host: when did this prosperity gospel start? >> guest: the beginning of the message from the 1950's they are pentecostal independence revivalists that show up in the small towns to attract hundreds of thousands of people and in

the post war years their regulars like oral roberts with the anointing those that resealed after world war tarot we see a number of diseases for those not quite the things that we need sarah to develop confidence a new vocabulary to brings up the billfolds that multiplied it is the idea that is a representation of my ministry. and then to be multiplied

back to you. also tidying is 10 percent of what you have already earned but these days they ask in order to receive you have to give that moneyed multiplies this is innovative theologically speaking. >> host: jim and tammy faye bakker? >> guest: they're the perfect embodiment of prosperity churches. they started a christian wonderland. they have the secret guide can do playful attitude and she was always to seconds away from bursting into song and with the blue suit and a gold watch like a carnival atmosphere in their life and marriage ferromagnetic and fun to watch and let's open

the door spiritually to see what god brings. we know the relationship between the audience and televangelist is the legal recourse to but in '80s those type were very attractive to the silver set the elderly and at home by now with the mega church is a young middle-class phenomenon everyone thinks just reaching the last penny but this is the kind of thing the aspirational middle-class audience will see weekly to have practical resources about jobs and parenting. >> host: white and black and latino?

>> guest: sure. it is overwhelming how many have started in the last tenures with the latino churches there were the fresh face before they were consigned to small churches but now they have their own tv shows. and then the crystal cathedral. but the smaller makers church that was an offshoot they have of whole host between three and 5,000. >> host: you teach

religion here to what it is american history. >> host: your religious background? >> guest: a nondenominational mennonite background and i considered myself a christian. >> host: when you look at the big church? >> pc that sense of expectation -- expectancy where we will run the excellent food program but they're very concrete progress love the excitement and enthusiasm and the intense spiritualized and really impressed me. >> host: what does not appeal to you? >> i experienced that from

where i sit by the choir that this of is for racial thoreau's and it is such an optimistic beautiful thing but in the wheelchair section i can barely make it through the service museum people so sure the faith has let them down the bodies are failing them and they have spiritual inadequacies because they are not rich or healed. i want church to be a place where people receive comfort maybe not yet but that is not always the message. >> host: the students at the divinity school today admire or aspired to be made church pastors? >> guest: for the most part they are a methodist.

mortgage heavy churches that they can no longer afford. so what happens it is a challenge for everyone. >> host: but the megachurch is growing to one their crowded around every urban metropolis and a wide-open in spiritual market. but they appealed to a certain kind of creature you have to have great hair and the thought that things will get better but rarely people will not attend if your kids are not smart or marriages terminal. behalf to believe it is

better tomorrow. >> host: do politicians drawn to the large congregations? >> absolutely we see it in the battleground states whenever there is the series of megachurch like the latino was in southern florida our popular in a swing state they are effective ways to mobilize people. >> host: are there areas of the country where they're most segregated? >> guest: it is easy to tell where they're not sometimes. vermont has very few. the northeast is not fertile ground either the mountainous west rather are mormons or mountains. i think in part because the

demographics and population the church is like better at the crossroads of major highways but with big open spaces and the huge sprawling population that would be fertile ground. baby hispanic immigration is summarized come i can tell people right now we're supplant churches but it is about immigration population density and major highways. >> host: here in north carolina are there in this area? >> guest: yes. there is one prosperity megachurch in the area.

one for the 1980's an amazing story one of the few that was not urban but in a town the church had more people than the town. it was the same type of jim and tammy fay baker appeal and that exciting attitude. >> host: what is the difference between the megachurch and prosperity megachurch? to they preach different gospels? et megachurch has a reputation to be nondenominational, optimistic , media's savvy, but for the most part numbers rise many if not most are to put the small or they just barely hit the threshold. but prosperity megachurch to

look for face is not just spoken or trust and then to draw back blessings you look for health and wealth. in victory is that puts a spinning globe into every logo just teh's things are about to get better just to separate those four things that would separate. >> host: how important our spouses? >> guest: extremely there is a litmus test to see a sad man standalone they want

a beautiful long haired wife it is a great wide to divided the ministry the women can do with many of children and the bank to do the heavy spiritual lifting and became popular in the '80s and is a trend almost in all churches today. >> host: to the minister's flaunt their wealth? >> guest: absolutely. but do in a tasteful way. recently there was some flak for advertising from his helicopter blades and asking $62 per person in order to supply more for that ministry but that may be too wet etch but it goes to show just how far they can go in

order to demonstrate. >> host: sunday mornings joel osteen is on for half an hour with just his sermon. what is a full-length church services like? >> guest: very uplifting music by a grammy award winning singer or song writer. it will have at least 20 people greeting you from the concrete maze into this century of a gorgeous building their designed with truth and beauty is the main appeal of the christian and that it. they go for beauty. >> host: how long does it last? >> guest: about 20 minutes of music then done in the sermon that this is from

victoria with a particular understanding you give a and god will reward you with more then the buckets come out and go away been at joel osteen will preach a little less than half an hour than the spiritual roundup. they're quite deficient. i went to the good friday service because they cannot find any others in a dissent period that surprise me but they don't need good friday as much as easter. so what would that look like ? i was wished a happy good friday 16 times on my way in. they had a living zero. by the third song jesus had

died but then resurrected but quite early on in the service to show you how quickly they want to rush to the end to that good stuff so that we get the blessings >> host: a lot of mainline churches the missions are our reach, food banks, a shed in stomachs cetera. to the prosperity churches have those programs as well? >> guest: they do. and here is a spectrum. prosperity is the instantaneous you know, that you have faith and you will find yourself and the coffers will be filled but there will be a more roundabout appraisal hobbema relationship works. with her prosperity one individual's social services

so rather than advocating for educational reform they will give every kid a schoolbag filled with school supplies. but it is a little more open especially with the black megachurch with housing, of prison reform with the structural solutions. but for the most part prosperity tilts away from structural solutions because god has already given you everything you need to solve your problems. >> host: what is the reaction of the megachurch members to your book "blessed"? >> guest: i hope there has been some lovable of recognition. i think there will always be worried anybody adding the

word gospel before the word like prosperity to be skeptical but for the most part the most criticism i have gotten is item 297 rather have that than what people did not recognize as themselves. >> host: who said you are too nice? >> guest: almost everyone. one called a dangerous that people would read it and convert. i think it is charity and humor is the goal to present things in a way people would recognize. >> host: are they not evangelical? >> guest: we have some that straddle the line between pentecostal but more and more they are evangelical there would not is pause spiritual gifts as the main part of the theology and that is a new

frontier and looks so much like prosperity optimism will be hard to distinguish itself. >> host: our prosperity churches considered anti-intellectual? >> guest: yes. because they don't want to play by the same rules our go to the same schools or have the same historical debate. thinking of natural restoration but people who forget history to think about god revolution so ascii prosperity preacher where does the message come from? ascap presbyterian but they will say it cave industry more god spoke to me. so in that moment it allows us to have creativity and

then nearly on you couldn't get into trouble but it led him to wonder if maybe maybe if they had their own trinity. it was awkward. but it was in his book that sold millions of copies. . .