justice reform. >> headquartered in montgomery, alabama. how many people on death row? >> actually the largest death row per capita in the country. country. it is unique in that it is the only state that has a provision that allows elected trial judges to override juries. juries. we have about 200 people on death row. >> we invited you want to talk about the book. your first book. >> the story focuses on walter mcmillan. there was a murder. a young white woman was murdered. the police could not solve the crime.

a great deal of pressure. they were talking about impeaching the sheriff, sheriff, and we think they decided to arrest someone, and walter mcmillan became that man. he was having an interracial affair with a young white woman which brought him to the attention of law enforcement, so he was arrested and put on death row before the trial. the only case where i've had a a client put on death row. i was shocked by that fact. i was shocked by the fact that at the time of the crime he was 11 miles away with 20 people from his church raising money. it would have been so much better if he had been by himself.

we feel like we have been convicted. the third the third thing that got me plugged into this case,, as soon as i filed a notice of appearance i got a call from the judge who told me he did not want me involved. he was convicted and sentenced to death. we got involved after the sentence. the book is about our efforts to expose his wrongful conviction. i talk about the irony of this case. a beautiful book with an incredible place in american literature. people love that story, but this tragic irony that they were enamored with the story

but unwilling to recognize a wrongful conviction. >> he came to the attention of police because of an affair with a white woman? >> well, two things. the woman he was having an affair with was married, and her husband found out about it and initiated custody proceedings with their children. and we have a history in this country of not dealing with our legacy of racial inequality. there is a long-standing fear and guilt that gets assigned to men, particularly men of color. decades of lynching around that same issue until the 1970s. dominated by this fear. african-american men convicted of raping white

women sometimes under very weak evidence and questionable cases. that narrative was part of the context that made it possible. >> when you look at the 200 plus on death row in alabama , are you fighting to end the death penalty itself? >> for me, the death penalty is an issue that has to be answered by asking that the question to people deserve to die for the crimes they commit but do we deserve to kill. in my view we do not have a justice system that is sufficiently fair to carry out the death penalty. we have a criminal justice system that treats you better if you are rich.

a system that is politicized. politicized. we make a lot of mistakes. we have now had one innocent person exonerated for every ten. we tolerate that error. i do not think we should be executing people in this country with the kind of system that we have. i am also morally opposed, but to me you don't have to be morally opposed. >> who said that capitol punishment means him without capitol. >> that was said to me by steve rice. i was not sure i wanted to be a lawyer. a lawyer. i was a philosophy major in college, and it took me a

while to realize no one would pay me to philosophize i went to law school because you don't really have to know anything. i was uncertain until i met steve. it was the beginning of an education that changed my world view, since of what is important, priorities as a lawyer. we do have a system where wealth matters more than culpability. and culpability. and i think that is tragic. >> how long has the equal justice initiative been around? >> we started in 1989. we 1989. we have gotten 115 people off of death row. a lot more work to be done. children prosecuted as

adults. the us is the only country in the world that condemns children to die in prison. and then conditions of confinement. 2.3 million today. that tremendous increase, horrific conditions of confinement. the us has the highest rate of incarceration in the world. it's probably at least 1 million in jail who are not a danger. we are trying to change that because we think it is a horrific waste of money. >> tell us about a case that the equal justice initiative has worked on. >> sure. yes. so actually just yesterday we got a ruling.

convicted convicted of two murders in birmingham in 1980, and he was innocent but could not get the legal help that he needed. the state said they found the gun that matched these two murders. he needed a gun expert but could not get one. his lawyer found found a guy who was a civil engineer who was blind in one eye to be his expert. of course, he was convicted and sentenced to death. ..

3000 children have been condemned to die in prison. there's a lot more work to do. >> the state of alabama, is about to them whether or not to retry him? >> yes. the court has ordered he is entitled to a new trial and the state won't make a decision about whether to provide better not. we are hoping -- i don't think there is any question that he is innocent. we will be calling on the district attorney to dismiss these charges. i think all a bus would benefit if we prosecutors and judges them on person officers that would own up to their mistakes. we have a political culture in the country where people somehow feel like a give away too much power would make knowledge they've made a mistake and i think that's really tragic. it is a horrible error after error after error.

this will be attached for the people of alabama, prosecutors of alabama to make an informed, responsible decision to say we made a mistake. we will at the van gogh home. we'll see what they do. >> or people watching this interview thinking if they are a death row, they probably deserve to be, or there's, or there something better. >> actually, i wish that were the case. the truth is we've now got close to 150 nsm people that have been proved innocent. it's really hard to prove somebody hard to person by the msm. not because they are innocent, but we have a system we don't enable ear. you don't get the resources. we are very cynical and dismissive. in this case, they are quite dramatic and quite overwhelming. i wish i could tell people this really isn't as bad as i am saying it is. i actually think it is much worse. because the prison population has gone adult think there's a time in american history where we had more innocent people in

jail and prison, including on death row, that we do today. the procedures and they hate in the regard that we have for fair and reliable process is actually lower than it was in my opinion then when i started my career 30 years ago. you see things that you didn't see back them in terms of rushing these cases to trial. so unfortunately, no. the firemen and women, just like anybody listening to this program, who don't have resources to protect themselves if they are ever unfairly or wrongfully cruised. these people are accused of something they didn't do an didn't do and it turned into a nightmare that most people don't think it's possible, but i have seen it too often. >> "just mercy: a story of justice and redemption" is the name of the book. how is the justice initiative coming? >> we rely on private donations, individual donors. we are private nonprofit organization. they have a website, ji.org we

rely on their support or our work. >> you won a macarthur genius grant. for a while? being smart? >> that's a good question. we were really interested in changing races. we've been doing a lot of work on racial history. creating new strategies, we tried to do our work in a way that is client centered, where we meet the needs of clients and talk to people. i've been very encouraged by some of that recognition. >> how many cases are you currently working on? >> we have over 100 death penalty cases that we are working on. we have about 200 kids prosecuted as adults we are currently representing. a couple dozen other civil rights and reform cases they are managing at this point. >> what is the significant been headquartered in montgomery,

alabama? >> macomber has a very common for a rich history. if the cradle of the confederacy and the place where the most intimate battles of the civil rights movement took place. and it is also a place that i think could be a really important turning point in our conversation about race. we really haven't done a better job of confronting our inequality. this country never dealt with the legacy of slavery. at the end of slavery, slavery in america was than about this forced labor. it was a myth, an ideology behind it and the ideology was addressed by the 13th amendment. in my view, slavery did and, slavery did and come it just evolved into something else from reconstruction into world war ii. african-americans dominate and we didn't talk about that. at terrorism supported jim crow and segregation and humiliation experienced on a daily basis, part of my education. i couldn't go to public schools

of the little boy. i thought my parents humiliated on a regular basis and we haven't talked about that. as a result of that, there are presumptions of danger and guilt that her people like walter mcmillan and make it easier to have been convicted. so we've got to do some work in montgomery is as great a place as any to do that work because we've actually been there in the middle of the slave trade in the 1840s and 50s. we were there during the terrorism error. i am hoping we will be there when we get to change the talk about these issues and create truth in regulation for all americans. that is my hope, that we can do better to overcome this legacy of racial inequality. >> my guess is a lot of first-time authors don't have tracy kidder and desmond tutu better be in the back of their

book with desmond tutu: you america's nelson mandela. >> well, i feel really honored and fortunate to be encouraged by extraordinary people like that. i have been really energized, frankly, by the responses i've gotten after writing this book yet i was very ambivalent. it was a good use of time given the cases i have to do, but i have been energized on what i have heard and seen from people who encouraged me to do more. >> year john grisham on the front of your book. >> yes, yes, a wonderful author does a lot about these courtrooms and counties that i work in everyday and every every year of my career. >> bryan stevenson. "just mercy: a story of justice and redemption" is the name of the book. we won't tell the ending. the narrative about walter