break-in occurs and the arrests occur. first mistake might have been coming home. but i did. [laughter] i stopped in san francisco called my deputy who later would become a white house counsel and i said, fred listen, i'm wiped out i've been across the time zone, it's been a very quick trip and i'm coming back and i'm going to delay a day at least. he said oh, no, they're looking for you. there's been a break-in at the democratic national committee. so that's -- i did. it was a sunday, i jumped on the plane and was in the office on monday morning and from the get go i get instructions to get involved and find out what happened. >> host: did you have a sinking feeling when you first heard it? >> guest: it was not good. it was not good. my first reaction when i got home on sunday night was, oh, my god, coulson has finally done something to get us in trouble. coulson was a special counsel to the president, he was known as something of a hatchet man, did

the president's dirty dealings. but it wasn't coulson in the long runful he was not uninvolved -- run. he was not uninvolved but he was not directly involved. i did have a sinking feeling, and it took me only nanoseconds to put together once i found out a few more facts what had gone on and that it had been gordon liddy's operation over at the re-election committee. >> host: john dean your book's called "the nixon defense: what he knew and when he knew it." what did the president know and when did he know it? >> guest: wow, that's a -- [laughter] to do that book, peter i had to go through and transcribe all the nixon watergate conversations. i pulled all the conversations out, i cataloged them first which nobody had ever done, and then i had a team of transcribers help me so i could go through and really follow from day-to-day to day what nixon knew when he knew it and what he did about it. one of the surprises, there are lots of surprises, in fact, there's not a page of that book

that i don't learn something new and report it. .. the cuban-americans that

howard hunt had worked with going way back to the bay of pigs during the kennedy administration, he was a cia officer one of the senior operatives in the bay of pigs and some of his key men were down here in miami. he had recruited them while in the white house to do the ellsberg rake in. when he went over when he went over and joined the reelection committee he brought the same people in. and now here after the arrests, two of them are in jail. he assured that these people would never talk which they didn't, but there were still multiple problems. >> and there was some money. >> that is a bizarre story and you are mixing to thing. howard hunt left a check in one of the rooms of the watergate hotel for $6.39

$6.39 which he wanted bernard parker to mail from miami to his country club in maryland to pay his out-of-state news. this led of course, the police immediately to howard hunt gizzi has a personal handwritten check. one of the of the things i never knew about in detail is nixon is down here at the time of the break-in as well. keep this gain is his vacation home. when he gets back on the 20th that night he comes up with a plan around the cuban-americans. he says, listen, if it bounces this way will we will do is set of a acumen defense fund because these guys are going to need support money, attorneys fees, going to have to pay fines, who knows. his plan is. his plan is to create a

cuban defense fund. now he was not going to do it secretly but very openly and playing against his opponent mcgovern move the cuban community did not want to become president. so he was going to play it politically. had he done that it would not have been an obstruction of justice. in fact, there are some wonderful conversations late in here where he is talking with henry peterson the head of the criminal division about this pan and peterson agrees. but halderman with whom he discusses the cuban defense fund never tells anybody. anybody. in fact weather is another conversation with me. he runs by me they cuban defense fund. i don't know what he is talking about. it just goes right by me. i continue because i realize i don't know everything, everything, but it was kind of an ingenious plan. >> june 23, 1972.

>> the day that. >> the day that became famous or infamous, however one looks at it for the so-called smoking gun tapes. what is interesting about the smoking gun tapes is they are really firing blanks. and i say that because what happened is so much time had passed that nixon could not figure out what it was all about. halderman was not communicating. no one was asking the. they take these they take these tapes at face value and read them out of context and when they finally surface is toward the end of his presidency but he has set up a defense saying, i knew nothing about watergate until john been told me of march 21 of 1973 and here three and here we are now back on june 23 of 72 and there are conversations that appear that he is trying to get the f ei to kill the

entire investigation. that is not what he is talking about. he is talking about having the fbi's a out of something they have no business investigating which is investigating, which is campaign finance, if not national security. it is a legitimate worry. given by his staunchest supporters in the impeachment committee finally throw in the towel and say this is beyond all we are willing to defend. not that there were not other smoking guns that same week. in fact there were other worse conversations but that was the one that surfaced when it surfaced and ended his presidency when it did because it put the lie to his defense that he knew nothing about the cover-up. >> how did that 18 and a half minute gap happen in your view? >> i think it is pretty clear that there was an intentional erasure. i decided to put an appendix

in the book where i would focus just on the 18 and a half minute gap when it happened who had happened, who had access to the tape at the time the fact that there were five to nine erasures, intentionally erased the content. it occurs on june 20 1972 which is his first day back in office after the arrest, his first conversation with halderman after the arrest. we know that we know that they are clearly talking about watergate. the content? i think it is simple. it is something because of the timing of when this comes up that again shows that his defense that he knew nothing until march 21 is a lie. again, it is ironic. there are more conversations that same week. this week.

this happens to be one that the watergate prosecutor had not subpoenaed. they also include everyone who had access to that tape at that time and it runs of wide gambit to some people who are widely known some who are still alive and not well-known. someone may confess yet. >> it is always surprising to know when the taping system was actually in play in the white house. it was not that much of his presidency. >> no it was not. he puts it in at the suggestion of halderman in february of 71. the reason is pretty basic. he had a system and his white house that his staff took regular notes and wrote up notes before the meeting started particularly with outsiders and then afterwards as to what had happened focusing on any decision he might have made

to tell somebody who was in there with the decision was and then he would have a contemporaneous record out of so the person could not go out of the office and say that the president said such and such. that is just t5 the system broke down pretty quickly. so he wanted not only for the purpose of not having somebody say he had said something different but different but he wanted it for historical purposes. so when the system breaks down, halderman said what you know lyndon johnson suggested we put in the taping system to read he urged you to do it. so let's put it in. what happens next is not covered in the tapes but they decide to put in a a voice-activated system and this was the killer if you will thought johnson had a

switch under his desk that he could control, next and if he is in the room the recording equipment comes on. on. his executive office building office, oval office. the cabinet office have a physical switch. camp david's voice-activated as well. by voice-activated by voice-activated, it means the president had a device on him that sent out a signal so the secret service knew where he was. and that is key to the locator system. so it only so it only plays if he is in the room. in other words talking while they're cleaning it will not start the taping system because it needs the president there with his locator button on him. even al haig who later became his chief of staff has no idea it's a voice-activated system and does not learn and told the senators tell him of it.

actually in response excuse me to my testimony. >> john dean when did you leave the white house? >> i leave on april 30. i i was very open with my colleagues when i broke rank in the fact that i was trying i was trying to convince them that this was not going to work to read we have to ended. >> april 30 30th 1973. >> april 301973 he removes all of us. as he as he says on the tapes, he fires us. he put a cover on it. he has accepted my resignation. but it is interesting you can tell from the conversations how frightened he is of all of us because he does not want anyone to turn on him. and at that.i had never talked about the president

to prosecutors or anybody else. else. i did not know if it was privileged. you know peter i started this process to figure out how nixon could make such a mess out of this. i was very curious. the bottom the bottom line is he is just not as clever as we thought he was. he fumbles makes terrible decisions leaves evidence that is conspicuous on his desk for no logical reason. i i am wondering how many other areas of his presidency when people say where else to do supply. maybe china happens because kissinger is able to push it and follow through. maybe some of maybe some of

his other accomplishments are really the result of his staff. >> what was it like to work in that white house? when you listen to tapes and read some of the books, and seems a lot of conspiracies, a lot of different groups working against each other. >> i had not worked in other white house staffs. i have followed them since. i was i was friendly with people in the johnson white house but there was a unique feature that i think was somewhat fatal. it was a need to know white house. in other words, if you are working on something you were pretty much for been to talk to anyone else about it which caused many of the problems of that presidency. watergate is completely out of the normal staffing system and that is part of

the problem. >> all right. very quickly right. very quickly and then we will take some of your calls when did the white house watergate hearings happen? when were you when were you testifying? what happened to you after? >> they start in may 1973. i do not 1973. i do not testify until june 25. i am an early witness. i have been cooperating with the committee. they knew the general areas of my testimony. they had no idea i would bring in as 60000 word document that had i been told i was going to have to read i never would have made it 60000 words. but nevertheless i ended up

spending the entire day reading it in monotone as well. i did not want to emphasize anything. i just figured i will put it flat out out there. eight hours of reading. the next four the next four days or question-and-answer. >> then what happens to you? very quickly and i apologize to our viewers. how much did it cost you financially to go through that? >> i have never really try to figure it out. i hired a lawyer, and he was fair. fair. i was in a position where i could afford it. so it was and also i had a_lawyer i had a next line lawyer and he insisted we do it his way or no way and he for a long time pushed

for immunity and it turned out to be a smart move. it delayed things, gave me time to prepare testimony, gave us time to see how things were going to shake out and ultimately when it came down to what the government could or could not do with me they would have had great difficulty prosecuting me because of the immunity. immunity. i have the case that oliver north would later have where it was clear the court said you cannot said you cannot have it both ways. you can't have somebody )) testify under immunity and then turn around and prosecute them. it has to be one of the other. i have been informally immunized by the prosecutors formally by the senate and as my lawyer said it will take them years to even figure out they can't do it if they want to litigated. i didn't start down this

road to beat the rap. i will take responsibility for whatever i've done. i wish you and your good lawyering that gives me the options. so that sorted itself out. >> of what were you convicted and what was the penalty? >> i pled guilty to conspiracy to obstruct justice which is the only offense i know. i was originally sentenced to two to four years. i testified in the trial of ehrlichman and others, and others and it looks pretty clear that the judge was trying to make it look like i would get the strict sentence. i i was in the witness protection program for a year and a half. i don't actually go to jail or prison. i am in the safe house and and every day they bring me

into the prosecutor's office it is not exactly a hard time. time. i eat in restaurants and sleep in this place at night and that i i picked up the next morning by the marshals my so-called incarceration lasts 120 120 days and the judge says time served. >> you have been patient. >> very patient, since 1963 when john kennedy was assassinated. just trying to get to the bottom. i hope you i hope you don't cut me off. am i still on the air? >> we are listening. go ahead. be quick. >> thank you for mentioning oliver north. all the way from john kennedy's assassination i i don't know if you have seen the new photos of george bush senior and dealey plaza on the day kennedy was assassinated, through watergate when george bush senior asked nixon to resign

through iran contra when george bush senior. >> ronald where are you going with all of this? go ahead and wrapup. >> i want to compliment john dean for having the guts to say any of this because so many people have been killed their books about how many people have killed. >> a lot going on there. we are going to lose that caller. >> let me just say this. they have had howard hunt in daily plaza. i would be amazed if george bush senior was in daily plaza, two. there were hundreds of people there. >> how do conspiracy theories connecting dots that may or may not be a part how did it begin? >> some of the most aggressive conspiracy theories are pushed by what

i call conspiracy theory entrepreneurs. they write and sell books. they are always fatally flawed because the conspiracy pierced does not want all of the hard information. there is never an answer. they will invent a false fact to replace it. it it. it is just kind of a sad situation. too much currency simplest against yours to complex problems that are bogus, distort history and is not healthy for the body politic. i think they are pushed primarily by conspiracy entrepreneurs. >> jack, you are on book tv with john dean. >> good afternoon. first of all, let's be candid, the media hated nixon in particular the "washington post". secondly the roosevelt

administration was corrupt to the t loaded with communists harry dexter white being one of them. i'd like to talk about something. tell me about this lady angel from asia. the south vietnamese as far as negotiating a deal concerning the paris peace talks. >> thank you very much. anything you want to address >> he mixes a lot of things in their. i have never seen anything in the material i have that in connection with the bombing called and alleged behavior that he was somehow a back channel to

make a deal for nixon is promised south vietnam he will give them a better deal there has been a lot of hot air and conspiracy. but very little fact. >> were you surprised when he became known? >> not really. there was a conversation in this book. the justice department. and he told me that a general counsel for the major news organization which i assume that the time was time magazine or the "washington post" worried about the fact that they might somehow be getting involved in obstruction of justice and so i have not talked to the attorney general the director of the

fbi about this but i think they should have it at the white house. the nixon knows about it. when when he selects pat gray as director people tell gray about it. great is not want to believe it, but it was true. >> next call comes from jonathan in san carlos california. >> hello. good hello. good afternoon. if he had not leaked information with the cover-up have succeeded and thus nixon gone on to a second term? >> i don't think so. that is a good question. while he had good inside information it's going very broad. have been a couple of good both. there is one call leaked which is excellent. he really wants the job of

director. the old hoover the old hoover cronies were still there helping him with this. i don't think this would have made a lot of difference. while he is aggravating the situation and as an fbi at times out of control and leaking information that makes it very apparently acting director does not have control. in the big nature, i don't think it changes anything. >> good afternoon, gentleman i am 52 years old. when you testified i was a 12-year-old and the 12 -year-old, and the one thing ever more than anything else is when you told people that you hope that it did not prevent young people from becoming active in politics. well, i did and have been ever since. i wanted to ask you what

happened to john dean since watergate in your personal career as well as anything in politics? >> i had a i had a nice and successful career in business in california where i lived retired at 60 years of age, now on my eighth book and have been cranking them out. i write columns as well do a fair amount of lecturing. pretty active in politics through the perspective of a commentator. >> how could richard nixon have survived it? ow could richard nixon have survived it? >> very easy. very easy, peter. truth. the people who later went should have gone day one. he does not learn about the break-in until march 17 17th when i tell him. he should have been told and

had all of those options but he just could not do it. he just seemed he adopted the cover-up. you can hear him. while not active, he approves every key element until he gets deeply active in what is the end of the first cover-up and in the cover-up of the cover-up. >> you are on book tv. >> years ago i heard i believe it was john ehrlichman claimed that he was providing funds to the democratic party. did you hear anything like that? >> never heard that. never did. >> to diary entries have come out recently.

>> what came out were not new entries. he did a written version of the diary that was transcribed. he would dictate these things. i had my digitizer cannot and i was listening. i digitized some of those. it is kind of a flat voice where he is often in a car or someplace like that being driven home and dictating the days events. he was very disciplined and detailed. it it is a wonderful document that was buried for years. my god would watergate had sorted itself earlier. it was lost for years, just before he passed away he

really started working on it it cleaning it up not deleting, but making sure people understood the way that it worked and put it out. and it is a value to five valuable document. i cited a number of times in my book. >> when you were sitting in the oval office and told richard nixon that there was a a cancer growing around his presidency what was that like? >> things had kind of conflated. conflated. one of the lawyers of the reelection committee came to me and said hunt said hunt is demanding 120004 he will talk about the things he did that happens on march 19. before that before that i have just started dealing with nixon really as of february 27. i am taking his temperature. he is taking mine and i am not sure how much he knows. yet he is pushing me to

write a bogus or work harder and harder. those two things come those two things come together and i say this man really needs to understand in as graphic a terms as i can put together what is happening and why and that it is criminal. i did not mince words with him. so that is what was going on the surprise to me is nixon reacts the way he does. he does not respond when someone is committing perjury that we should not be committing perjury. he said how much and i said a million dollars out of thin now which is air which is about five and a half today and he says, i know where we can get that. so one horrible after another he has an answer. perjury is a tough rap to prove. i am surprised that his reaction. and had the and had the next event in the sequence not

occurred when one of the men arrested at the watergate released a letter to the judge saying there had been perjury and he jumps in with both feet that forces nixon to take action. otherwise i'm not sure he would have. but he is sending the watergate defendants to congress. if they do not testify they will get 30 40 year sentences for a bungled burglary. he was just putting a hammer on them. so those events forced nixon to deal with the situation and bring it to ahead. >> who was the judge and how did he get this case? >> the chief judge of the united states district court for the district of columbia. he got the case while it

normally would come up in a rotation, it a rotation it appears he picked this one off for himself. he may he may have gotten the original break-in trial for those arrested and watergate and then as chief judge taken the option to stay with a successor trial. he became as knowledgeable as any judge. and he and he is a republican but takes on the president of the united states. he pushes the limits for a federal district judge for example 40 year sentences for break-in. that is pushing the fifth amendment a long way. so he does not necessarily get the hall of fame but he does get a lot of credit for pushing this to conclusion. >> to people under 50 know who you are? >> you know we have talked about this.

i have been at usc. i go over there and do two lectures a year. before come over to do the lectures the class i do it in the instructor always said call your parents or grandparents and see if you should attend this lecture and they all show up. so they don't know but they find out. >> here is his latest book.