look for these house and book stores this coming week and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on booktv.org. [applause] >> my name is juan diasgranados and am a a journalist at joe biden is in west palm beach and also vice president of the national association of black journalists, the miami fort lauderdale chapter. i'm very happy to introduce two very special guest today. doctor cornell west is a prominent and provocative democratic intellectual, a professor of philosophy and christian practice at seminary school professor emeritus at princeton university. he taught at you but, harvard, and the university of paris did he graduated manga cum laude from harvard and obtain his m.a. and ph.d in philosophy at

princeton. is written more than 20 books and has edited 13. is best known for his classic race matters and democracy matters and and his memoir brought the west living and loving allowed to keep years prickly on the colbert report, cnn and c-span. he also made his film debut in the matrix. he was also a commentator with kevin on the official trilogy released in 2004. "black prophetic fire" them doctor west latest book was the single scholar christa buschendorf provide a press -- does perspective on six african-american leaders including frederick douglass w.e.b. dubois, martin luther king, jr. ella baker, malcolm x and ida wells barnett. examines the impact of these men and women on their era and across the decades. he rediscovered integrity and commitment within these passionate advocates but also their fault lines. by providing new insights that

humanize all these well-known figures, west takes an important step in weekend with the black prophetic fire so essential in the age of obama. helene atwan has been director of the beacon press since october 1995. she holds a masters degree in english literature from the university of virginia. she began her career in publishing at random house in 1976. for acquisitions at beacon include gail jones the healing a national book finalist, rashid khalid, the iron cage richard blago, for all of us one today, cornel west "black prophetic fire" and anita hill's reimagining equality. she served eight years on the board of 10 in england that is the administrator of the hemingway foundation and award. thank you both for being here today. thank you. [applause]

[cheers and applause] >> thank you for that very warm miami welcome. it's a great pleasure to be here today with all of you and i have the greater honor of being in dialogue with professor west. so in addition to the introduction you just heard, i want to say that cornel west is working on two other books with us and one coming up soon is his addition of the writings of martin luther king jr. which will be called a properly the radical change. that will be published on dr. king's birthday and i think you should all look out for that.

advanced expert after that will be a very important one, justice matters. so we're very much looking forward to that as well. sans going to ask cornell to talk briefly about each of the six figures that he discusses in his new book and then to reflect on how the legacy impacts us today. and then going to turn the floor over to the questions. so much alexander, a black professor sutter said this was a passing exploration of the black prophetic genius and fire. i would like to start by asking you how you define black prophetic fire and then we can talk about each of the figures. >> thank you for that. i would like to just begin briefly isolating first helen was not publishable very blessed to work with. she worked with james baldwin. the same as james baldwin, so

many other talented figures. and i would like to salute president and venture capital. those are the two leaders. 31 years. [applause] thirty-one years. that's a beautiful thing. that kind of alliance too. let you know brother eddie jewish brother. i like to see that kind of collaboration and collective laois. [laughter] but "black prophetic fire," i just want to begin by saying see i am going in because somebody loved me somebody cared for me somebody attended to make. [applause] some trying to keep track of my own fire that i got from my reading. my brother and sister the fire got from the shiloh baptist church, willie p. cook and beacon, my vacation bible school teacher. these are people who provided and lived experience, in answer

to the voices for questions. how does integrity faced oppression? how does honesty face deception? how does decency face insult? and how does virtue meet force? integrity, honesty decency and a sense of virtue in the face of what? terror,, stigma but i come from the people have been terrorized for 400 years tom and tries for 400 years in the united states. and so when we talk about frederick douglass can we talk about w.e.b. dubois ella baker and ida b. wells, malcolm or martin, you're talking about folks holding on to integrity, honesty, decency, a search addition, being willing to tell the truth, expose lies and still do it with love in their heart. compassion. [applause] in the face of catastrophe. we are of use people.

the rest of what the catastrophic not just problems. there's no such thing as a negro problem. catastrophe visited on black people. the question is prophetic fire response to the catastrophe. we have a deep sense of trying to tell the truth and most importantly willingness to pay the costs. the sacrifice your popularity for integrity. sacrifice feeding in for bearing witness, and i am very proud to be a small part of the great tradition of of the great people in this ferguson moment. we need it more than ever more than ever. [applause] >> you begin the book with frederick douglass. and really interesting choice because he was a very complicated guy, wasn't he? and tell us about his bearing witness and the point at which

he may be lost sight of that. >> of course the book is dedicated to david walker in herriot tavern two towering folks already already on fire. tubman 19 time goes back to the belly of the beast. david walker, the peels the colored citizens of the world. he's a dead man nine years later in a hotel in boston. they put a bounty on his head. that's my kind of brother. willing to tell that kind of truth judicious forms of evil in the society, not just white supremacy but, of course, it spills over. subordination of women subordination working people and i i jewish anti-arab anti-muslim, anti-catholic, all those parts of our history but white supremacy sitting at the center. so frederick douglass is who it was. he is the most eloquent ex-slave in history of the modern world.

and by eloquent i mean what cicerone and others defined by eloquent, wisdom speaking in the face of catastrophe. put a bounty on his head. a bounty on his head. they're simply nobody liking. now it's true he does become part of the republican party. it has become part of the american imperial machinery the city relation to both haiti and the dominican republic. that's mike her cheek. it's hard to be on fire for a long time because you of the 1860s, 1865, had 30 years to live. malcolm died at 39. malcolm was kind of 39. out of baker was on fire her life. ida b. wells is on fire her whole life. it's hard to be on fire your whole life. we know that because we live in the age of the sellout, don't we? we have poker on fire when they were 20 and 30. they look at them well-adjusted they harbored

certain what's going on with the fire in ferguson. hardly discern what's going on. they're looking freedom fighters like ashley gates, alexis templeton toward russell and brother wylie and sister. right now in the belly of the beast in -- i was going to say mississippi -- ferguson. >> let's jump to ida b. wells in fact. because she was an extraordinary woman, and i discovered so much about her. i don't think a lot of people know very much about her. tell me your story about ida b. wells. >> i wish ida b. wells name was as well known as martin luther king, jr. and malcolm x. anyway she is probably the most courageous person in this text to the degree to which she was willing to write classic in 1892 another classic in 1895 a

redhaired doing what was telling the truth about american terrorism to a lot of talk about terrorism in the world especially since nine 9/11. all americans feel unsafe. whether they be black in america. unsafe unprotected or random violence in haiti for who you are. we have got a 9/11 fight. it happens every week. it happens every month but it happens every year. not something that happens one time everybody gets all the freight. no. what did ida b. wells duplex while booker t. washington and the boys were arguing about education and civil rights, she was confronting american terrorism, lynching, the raw face of the american nationstate with courage, and they ran her out of tennessee, put a bounty on her head but if it were not for the age the receiver in new york and they still let her down a new, she had to leave the country and go to britain. and she came back with the

classics. i've got something to say about the underside, the night side of america. terrorism at your center called jim crow and jane crow. of course, in our textbook they call it segregation. that's a deodorize turn. we are talking an american terrorism. every two and half days and some precious black men or black woman a black child hanging from a tree. the southern trees were red with the great billie holiday singing about such power. the jewish brothers writing the lyrics. it was ida b. wells that lead that series struggle. she organized black women and the black woman school. so we need to know much more about ida b. wells, her classic crusade for justice. we need to know about how she is able to sustain her course. she's a sunday school teacher in chicago. still led the club a movement from chicago, but was also mistreated as the case with every individual in this set.

many black people themselves. why? because when you're on fire in that way, but when you've been -- in america your todd richards of can leave you the raw hips, lips noses to leader less beautiful less intelligent and less moral. the black folk have been like that for 400 years. and she like the others in this book -- black people and say don't be afraid, don't be intimidated don't be scared. straighten your back up listen to your voice have a prince of dignity. mobilize and organize with others were willing to straighten their backs up. so there's deep reflection and the text about how she was often times this understood and misconstrued by black folk including the great w.e.b. dubois himself and we love w.e.b. dubois all human things are cracked vessels. we try to humanize across the

board. ida b. wells my god, i wish she was a household that name was household word. >> maybe it will be soon. >> we got so many of the voices, black women voices brown women voices and others raising their voices. daisy fernandez a cup of water -- what does -- >> a cup of water under my bed. >> my bed. i find it was every bit. very important to have these women voices, women of color voice but also white women can get in on and tell the truth against it. hadcut against the grain. cut against the grain. men, too. brothers, too. >> tell us impact since we're talking about sanitized, tell us about mlk and his santa claus -- what do you mean by that. >> even tiny mention brother martin name, talk about john

coltrane just got to path for a moment. how in the face so much hatred and contempt could he dished out so much love? the face of so much care. he's in the paddy wagon in the 1960 just him in the dark with a german shepherd coming at him every moment. and the young and his father, go to to receive him in prison and double-click martin had a nervous breakdown. there's only one more to say this is the price we must pay for the freedom of our people. that's so we're talking about talking about martin luther king. he's not alone. these the product of a tradition, comes out of the rich like church brother moses is here somewhere. arizona. he understands that. so what happens to martin luther

king, jr. where he gets sanitized and sterilized. that's what black love and that much black fire is always a threat to america. america must understand black rage has always been connected to revenge. black rage can be connected to black love. just as what love looks like an tenderness is what love feels like and private. he was a tender man just like malcolm. he was a gentlemen, a sweet man i get a deep commitment to justice. when he died 72% of americans disapproved of hundred 55% of black people disapproved of martin when he died. everybody loves him now that the worms got him. the ethnicity of the most dangerous man in america. how come? so much love. so much fire. why was that he was unpopular at the end? a critique of empire, the greatest purveyor of violence in

the world. he is telling the truth. vis-à-vis vietnam, trying to organize all poor people, going beyond civil rights to the rights of black people human rights. ian malcolm x had already talked about 64 going to united nations, reigning american to trial for the violation of human rights of black people. that's the martin that scared people. and understandably so. when you're working at that level of love and fire, it can be very, very difficult to embrace. egidio to embrace at a cost. and so of course attacks radical king is going to lay does -- >> because we turned it into santa claus spent exactly. turned it into a old man with a smile and toys in his bag. everybody can't wait to see them. the same thing to nelson mandela but that's another text for another time. brother martin the radical

king, to keep track of the centrality of the love commitment to keep track of the centrality of the compassion and the willingness to pay the cost. this was part of the challenge for our younger generation. this is a love letter to the younger generation. i am passing from the scene. i know. i don't need to be center stage. tell that to brother al sharpton, you know? [laughter] [applause] you don't need to be center stage, brother. there's something called grassroots leadership, indigenous leadership and these different context. get out of the way of the camera. let the young folks speak. get out of the way of the camera. let them tell the truth. you stand alongside the that's what we did when we went to ferguson. we said we're going to jail. why? we want the young folks to know some of the old folks love them. we might not fully understand everything but we are in solidaritsolidarit y with an even as we want to respect, protect and also correct them. we stand alongside them like

coltrane outline arab culture and allowing mike. coltrane could've been center stage every proposed acute sikkim what? let the young voices in. come on, eric. you'll understand when talking about? what it means to try to retrieve but also make room for the young folks coming through. because some of them have been unloved and uncared for an unattended to, and i've been so loved and cared for them and have been telling the truth for three lifetimes, and that's just the west household. we have been got to the shiloh baptist church at harvard, yale or princeton to do with teaching what the eyes of others call the caravan of love going. or the love train that curtis mayfield sang about. people, get ready, don't need a ticket to get on this love train what are you ready for the love train? have you prepared yourself? are you equipped to tell the truth about the american private

drones every child anywhere has exactly the same value whether they are in pakistan or whether their white brothers and sisters in newtown, connecticut, or whether you on the eastside of l.a., with you on the southside of chicago whether they are cuban, palestinian and israeli or whether they are something else but that's old school. everybody is a star trek that ain't no joke. everybody is a star trek not just beyoncé. [laughter] she's a star but, you know everybody is a star. spirit some of you start lining up at the microphone. [laughter] because we're going to let you ask questions but i'm going to ask one more while you get in line. in fact one of the characters i was really intrigued by, i was intrigued by them all in this book was ella baker and, in fact, i think what you're saying about not being center stage was

really ella baker's ammo isn't that right speak with wonderful book, sister barbara rancic and one of great of our day. we live in an age of ella baker as it relates to for% as it relates to occupy wall street. ella baker had a particular charismatic leadership. she played like a jazz orchestra, raise all the voices, not just one at the center. you bring all the voices. as executive director and as executive director of snake voices of stokely carmichael and a wave of other to ella baker was a democratic there is democratic activist pressure lived in the centrality of gradual leadership. why? because she believed fundamentally and the capacities and abilities of those they call

everyday people. those james cleveland call ordinary people. and as you access their ability and their capacity, you don't have to just one leader representing all black people and all brown people. usually to be co-opted. and what you co-op or murder them lo and behold depression sets in disorientation sets in and the possibility of the capacities ability of order people are overlooked. ella baker is someone who we have to catch up with. she's ahead of us and she died of course working closely with my precious puerto rican brothers and sisters in independent movements. oscar lopez still in jail. why? cosmopolitan, international always at the grassroots level.

there's nothing wrong if people think you're a charismatic but you must use your charisma as a form of service not using your charisma as a form of conspicuous consumption that make use of the stage as an isolated individual rather than part and parcel of the group. that's why count basie was always with the group. wasn't just count basie band and protecting himself as an individual all by himself. no. he understood there's no count without the group, no group without johnny hedges and the duke ellington band. we could go on and on and on. it's good to have mom local in the house, sister maria here too. bless you bless you. >> okay, let's start with the questions. thank you, on that high note. >> welcome. thank you for being here. thank you for continuing with the struggle to my name is paul fletcher. you know my dad arthur a. fletcher -- >> from kansas?

>> yes. >> yes. >> i just want to mention that though. i was skimming through your book and i noticed one of the subjects that i definitely are concerned with. i read in the new york times there was $60 trillion that the banks used to laundry arms and drug money from the cartel and selling arms to the iranians. and i was like and nobody went to jail. nobody went to jail. and yet we are going to jail for petty drugs. and i'm glad you making, but when i tell people 60 trillion-dollar companies to look american talking about something that can't be imagined. yeah, it's hard to believe that when this economy is $4 trillion, and we got $60 trillion being stolen? and nobody too big a steady go to jail. i would like you to further comment on that. >> that's in the book though

brother. >> that was in "the new york times." times. >> oh, i thought that was in my book. [laughter] somebody snuck something in my text. i got you i get you. i understand. >> you start out talking and nobody went to jail -- >> over all the crimes committed on wall street, market many bush and fraud, right. not only that bit in jamie dimon calls of the white house and makes a deal. most of the taxpayers for jpmorgan anyway. the criminal justice system that is in some ways criminal, that is in some ways criminal. it's true. ever going to rule of law pocket rule of law for people. let several of offer rich people. you have to rule of law for wall street if you're going to have a for main street. let's be consistent with jane

austen with of course constancy. ethical constancy and to nietzsche pointed out. the same is true with student loans. i was just at santa cruz just yesterday with a student sitting in. increasing tuition. interest rates for students still out of control. what are rates for banks? almost do. how come the banks get treated that way and students treated another way? which group is more important for the future of the country? the students or the banks? what are we talking about? more priorities. some rich folks can choose to do the right thing. i will fight for the right to be wrong, i'm a libertarian about these things. [laughter] but we have to tell the truth in regards to a warped our criminal justice system really is to the although the shell of centers great tax, the new jim crow. oh absolutely. >> thank you for being here. i question really is not about

the case can not about the facts not about a verdict but it's really, the question is what do you think martin luther king would say about the reaction, the protests in the ferguson? >> from the young people themselves speak what no. what i'm saying is, i guess if i were to say how i've feel and maybe that helps the question, i feel like martin luther king stood for peace and peaceful protests. so i'm wondering what do you think he would say about what's going on there? >> i see what you are saying. martin, of course we can't speak on behalf of martin bell a just days on his life and his work, his witness, he would certainly call resistance but it would be nonviolent resistance. that's the kind of brother he was. resistance but nonviolent resistance which is to say he wouldn't go to ferguson and say we've got to cool things off. he wouldn't say that. folks end up in the deep freeze.

no, no, no. the challenge has always been, this is true for black folks from the very beginning. how do you channel your rage into love and justice other than hatred and resentment? that's the question and that's the question martin luther king was wrestling with and he answered it with nonviolent resistance to i think in fact you are right keep in mind in calling for peace and calm it's not a downplaying the violations that have been taken place, not just in ferguson come every 28 days, every 20 hours a precious young black brother or sister bishop is the police or a security guard. this is the peak of an iceberg. you can't go in and say welcome we're concerned about the violence of the young folk and not deal with the violence of the system that's coming at you. martin luther king would want to access that, you see? but martin was like myself, he

was a jesus loving free black men. he'd put love at the center. and america ought to be grateful that consumers america i could just see black people and give them a standing ovation. [applause] .. dishing out the wonders about love. what is it? sending the contempt back and how long will that tradition line. america, america i'm praying for you. you are in a world of trouble. >> is true. it's true. >> i was moved by your lament that ida b wells is

>> i'm interested in hearing your thoughts about the importance of the intergenerational transfer of knowledge of the struggle, basic knowledge of history to the sustaining of black prophetic fire or even to sparking new fires. >> yeah, that's such a profound question and that's very much what this book is about. and this is true not just for precious black folk but it's true for precious human beings all around the country and so many of the worlds. because we live in a whole world driven by big money. and the money is very much about the erasure of memory and the erasure of historical connection so that the three dimensions of time -- past, present and future -- are all confined just to present and the present is the repetition of instant gratification with the corporate media generating mass weapons of distraction, you see. not the attention to the things that matter, but distractions. and this is especially true for our young people.

it's one reason why i've spent so much time in music. because we live in a time now where music is still the dominant tran den sense -- tran seven dense of their young people. and their music so thin coming from the oligarchs that control recording, radio and video and live performance. so there's very rare that you get a group that sounds as sweet and mellow as the emotions or the delphonics or the marvelettes or the miracles or enchantment. [applause] why? because those are soft voices that listens and blend with voices that then affect your soul. there is no group among young people that sing as a collectivity there's no band other than the roots that's left on the national level. no lakeside. no ohio players. [laughter] no charles wright and the third street rhythm band, no sly stone. folks go to schools with no art

programs. they got soul murder every day many those school. it's a vicious cycle in these schools. they don't have access to imagination and critical intelligence through the arts. some of them condition sing in tune and still make a million dollars. [laughter] [applause] >> nat king cole turns over in his grave and aretha and gladys knight -- no, gladys and aretha still arrive. souls were predicated on whether you got those notes right in that church or on the block or in the clubs. but now with the corporatization of music in the same way our universities are corporatized and our schools are corporatized and markettized that's taken place dumbs down integrity, quality, decency pushed to the margins, and it's all about just getting over the 11th commandment, thou shalt not get caught. [laughter] that's what we're teaching our

young folk. get over by any means, just don't get caught. just don't get caught. and that's a sad, sad thing we've reached that point. yes, go right ahead. >> given the universal human challenge of preserving treasures in earth and vessels what comfort do you have for aspiring prof pets -- prophets who seek to raise their voices in a way that will not contradict the four principles that duboise highlighted in your text? >> that's a wonderful question. what a wonderful group. laugh finish. [laughter] miami-dade college every time i come here y'all got such good stuff for me, every time i come. [applause] >> actually, i'm broward college. >> oh you're watch? i gotcha. but you're here now, though, i appreciate that. no i think every generation it takes people who are full of love, full of compassion, full

of willingness to purview what i call the way of the cross as a christian, but willing to pursue unarmed truth and unconditional love so that it's just a matter of example. there has to be enough examples around so that it becomes contagious. there's a wonderful line where it's said the examples are the go-karts of judgment. the people's judgment is shaped by who they're imitating. who, what they see exemplified before them. and if young folk primarily just see marketeers everywhere they go megalove? well not always. megacourage? usually not. but megachurches oh. sometimes not enough good examples. they go to universities. there used to be folk deeply concerned with the quest for knowledge. now they're more entrepreneurial, trying to get their own little institution with money flow and so forth and so on. wu tang clan got it right, didn't they?

cream. cash rules. everything. [laughter] but it doesn't have to rule me. doesn't have to -- one can be old fashion old-fashioned quest for integrity and run against the grain. i do think it's just the tip of an iceberg. it's happening in california, new york, chicago young folk are fired up, and they're tired of the old models of the marketeers. they want to see something that was real, give me something real. that's what young folk are saying. [applause] they want to see the real thing. these six are the real thing and that's not the only one. james baldwin gwendolyn brooks we got a whole lot of witnesses of folk who are the real thing. but i got six of 'em here and this is just the peak of this wonderful tradition. yes, go right ahead, my brother. >> thank you, dr. west. my name is armando aguilar. in light of obama's immigration speech on thursday can you comment on how well he did or not well he did when it comes to

speaking about the human dignity of these undocumented immigrants as they're struggling a marginalized group? >> i appreciate that question. >> thank you. >> one, we have to recognize that abraham lincoln fdr our dear brother, barack obama, he was pressured by the magnificent wave of activism of young immigrant brothers and sisters from all around the country. [applause] i was blessed to be a small part of it. in arizona, washington d.c. we marched in front of the white house. looked like we had the chance of a snowball in hell at that time. took hum a while to do it. -- took him a while to do it. didn't want to do it before the election. okay he's a politician like any other politician. we understand, brother barack. [laughter] but we want moral conviction. i applaud what he did yesterday. i think he should have gone further. folks need benefits, health care

benefits other kinds of benefits. you can't pay taxes and no benefits. [applause] something wrong about that. something deeply wrong about that, you see. but he took the first step. and, of course, he's going to get a firestorm from fox news and the right wig. he's going to get that if he's singing out of tune in the shower. [laughter] so what? that ain't new. and the sky is blue and grass is green. of course he's going to get it. take a stand brother. don't try to -- because a part of my criticism of my dear brother is that he tendses to punt on second down can rather than fourth down. [laughter] [applause] he gives in too quick. not enough backbone. but i was glad to see what he did, and we're going to keep pressure on to make sure that our immigrant brothers and sisters are are treated in such a -- with decency. i can say this, i don't like the fact that people are talking about america as a nation of immigrants, because that overlooks our indigenous brothers and sisters, you see. it's not true. america's not a nation of

immigrants. immigrants have played a fundamental role in the shaping of america but with some folk who are already here on their land. [applause] and they don't need to be in the room for us to be truthful about that. and often times when people say immigrants, it down plays the distinction between voluntary immigrants and involuntary immigrants. [applause] i think of the folk, my own lineage at least on the african side. i don't know what else i got you can see my or color so things got complicated -- [laughter] we laugh but it included rape it included violation, i don't know. i haven't hung up my dear brother, skip gates to find out. [laughter] but involuntary immigrants have a different status than voluntary immigrants. you come from -- you come hitting the ground come from jamaica, the greek-jamaican people hitting the ground moving. haiti, they're hitting the ground moving. oh, what great people they are. but my immigrants, different circumstances. don't put it in the same category.

[applause] don't put it in the same category. there's thousands of bones on the bottom of the atlantic ocean that will remind us of that immigration trek of those precious dignified africans who came here and encountered the slave auction. and that's also what we dealing with in ferguson. because we were already criminalized before we got here, and we still look at too many of our precious young ballooning young people -- young black young people as if they're criminals before they've done anything. and this is true for brown but especially for black. especially for black. so i appreciate that question. and i'm going to keep the pressure on my dear brother barack obama. i applaud him this time i applaud him. oh ye, absolutely. [applause] >> we have time for one more quick question. >> my name is louis armstrong, i'm also an author of the prophetic wrying and i heard you say anything something earlier about the 400 years, and what i want to ask you, is they

the same 400 years of genesis 15:13 or some of the time? >> in the biblical text? >> yes. >> oh, that's a -- >> you know i got to ask you that. >> creative imagination my brother. >> i got to ask you that. >> lord i appreciate it. i appreciate it. [laughter] yeah or it's difficult for me to make that kind of leap in our late modern times to some of the biblical text that shaped my own tradition. and, therefore, i would never want to make any kind of direct parallel. because when i read the biblical text, i read it in a spirit. and, of course, as a christian, i'm centric, you see, i focus on the pal sin january jew -- pal stint january jew named jesus, and because i keep track of it in the way of keeping track of the love and justice, it doesn't really spill over into the particular years and the parallel of the years. there's more to love and justice that i'm focusing on, brother.

but you stay strong this your prophetic work. >> thank you sir. >> absolutely. absolutely. [applause] >> thank you so much, cornel west. this was such a wonderful conversation. i wish it could just go on and on. [cheers and applause] >> booktv is on twitter. follow us to get publishing news scheduling updates, author information and to talk directly with authors during our live programs. twitter.com/booktv. >> from my father i inherited my confidence my resilience, my passion and my audacity. looking back, although it was never explained to me in this way, he taught me the spirit

of -- [speaking in native tongue] which is the greek idea of honor and doing the right thing even when one's own interests or even one's own life is in peril. growing up while i never felt anything but australian, there were two stories about the second world war and greece that i always kept close to my heart. the first was in 1940 when benito mussolini, italy's prime minister asked the greek prime minister for free passage through greece. and on the spot at 3:00 in the morning without hesitation, without consultation he said, oy. he said, no. it was a spirited defiance and quite incredible when considering just how vastly outnumbered the greeks were by the italians. it prompted sir winston churchill, the greatest figure of the 20th century in my mind

to say it is not greeks that fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like greeks. and then again in 1943 on the island of -- [inaudible] the german military commander ordered the bishop and the mayor to prepare him a list of the jewish community on the island. his plan was to deport the entire jewish community to concentration camps in tohand. in poland. the word had gone out that any greek caught hiding a jew would be executed on the spot. instead of preparing this list the bishop and the mayor went to the jewish community on the island, and they sent them into hiding in the mountains or with christian friends in the countryside. they returned to the german

military commander and presented him with a sheet of paper, the list that the german military commander was after. this were just two names -- there were just two names on that piece of paper, the bishop and the mayor. they told the german military commander that it was the entire jewish community of the island. it was the spirit that was behind both of those acts, and it is that precise spirit that has encouraged me to answer what i consider the greatest moral calling of our time, the defense of the united states of america. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> next, booktv speaks with dana goldstein about her recent back "the teacher wars: a history of america's most embattled