owing pretty hard. lots of folks still out and we still have one more life event coming up and that is richard dawkins the scientist. his most recent book is "an appetite for wonder" the making of a scientist and that will be coming up in just a little while while. joining us now on c-span bus is maybe not a face you are familiar with but maybe a voice you are familiar with. the senior economics correspondent with marketplace and npr minnesota public radio as well as a columnist for bloomberg. he has written this book, "unretirement" how baby boomers are changing the way we think about work.

chris farrell first off wended the magic number of 65 years old come into play? >> we are going back to the 1880s with bismarck and you come up with this notion and you look at the evolution of social concerns in europe and it just became 65. franklin roosevelt signed social security in 1935. 65 was let's hedge our bets. in outs about 75 if you round off the numbers. >> can you still work retire at 65 and a comfortable? >> there's an enormous rethinking of this life because we have this incredible powerful image of retiring and you stop working. >> you are going to the keep working. zero thanks i'm going to keep

working until i drop dead. the baby boomers are educators. they are healthier and our career center jobs all the epson downs is a big part of who we are. a lot of people don't want to walk away from that and if you look at the numbers many people are actually working during these traditional retirement years and how do you describe this? i call it unretirement. you have probably heard the expression encore careers. the british have an expression but it's all about continuing part-time work flex work contract work. it's an enormous experimentation that's going on. >> is it because we have to? it's been hard to say that not because people have been going to the mall and losing control of credit cards but for example it's really expensive to educate kids and so it's been very difficult for people to save so yes it does make a difference

but i also think there's a search for meaning. there's a search for engagement and work is also a social institution. it's a place where someone has a baby and we celebrate that. there's an appreciation of work is a social institution and also because we have the skill and knowledge. and people don't want to walk way from that. and it's because we have this gift and it's an opportunity and longevity so we are living longer so staying engaged in earning an income but find something that we really want to do. >> chris farrell is our guest. we are talking about his most recent book "unretirement" how baby boomers are changing the way we think about work. here is the cover. we will put the phone lines on the screen in case you'd like to participate in a conversation with mr. farrell 2-025-853-8810

east central timezones 585-3891 mountain and pacific timezones. now chris farrell comedy baby boomers are going to be retiring in the next three five, 10 years? >> the baby boomer generation 76 million born between 1946 and 1964 and from now until 2030 10,000 boomers are hitting the age of 65 every day. so it's a big number. the other thing is believe it or not the baby boomers it's not all about the boomers. we simply are engaging in society. even when the boomers pass on we are going to be an older society. this is a global phenomenon. the u.s. has a relatively young population compared to places elsewhere in the world. we have to break down a lot of stereotypes we have about older people in their creativity in her knowledge because there's a

sense of the real problem with our economy as we will have all these old people and they are not very creative and stuck in their ways and we have too many young people supporting too many older people but that belongs to a different economy in a different society the different era. i think we are going to learn older people are creative and they will continue to work. they will be doing different things. look you and you are doing something for 30 years do you want to do a? no you probably want to find something else to do but you will contribute and your employer is going to be healthier in a household income will be higher in the social security bill will be easier to pay. >> is there room in the economy for the older generation? >> there is. we are shaped by personal experience and that was a question if you remember back in the 1980s i was asked a lot when you really have the rise of the professional woman college-educated moving into professions moving into highly-skilled jobs starting to move into management and the women's movement has got a long ways to go still a 2014 is not

1984 and there has been a lot of progress. our economy can absorb a lot of growth. the fact is more people working is going to create a lot of wealth. >> 2025852025853880 for east and central timezones 58538914 pacific. you write that the specter of downward mobility in retirement is a looming reality for both middle and higher income workers and you are quoting somebody here. >> part of the genesis of this book and you have seen this, all these long-term economic forecast with the aging population. it's not just people haven't saved enough in their individual households, it's that the economy is going to be less dynamic. i think fundamentally is this really true and what if people are more engaged? what if they do continue to work longer? i changes that calculation and so a lot of the gloom and doom

about how little we have saved for retirement in general but retirement but people earning an income. think of it this way. you make $10,000 a year near retirement. that's the equivalent of having a 200,000-dollar portfolio which you would draw 4% and that's kind of a standard how much can you withdraw from your portfolio, take 4%. so that's $10,000. if you make 20,000 you can start doing the math there so it does have a powerful impact on the household finances. >> one final question before we go to calls. you have a chapter called rewriting the social compact. do we need to adjust how we administer social security? do we need to adjust some of the older age federal programs? >> well here's the thing. we have never had a good retirement system. the best retirement system we have is social security and there's this sort of mythologizing about the defined

benefit the traditional plan in the post-world war ii era but only 11 to 12% of private-sector workers ever worked long enough in one company to take advantage of that so we have never had a very good retirement savings except for social security. so part of this is if people are going to be working longer we want people to be taking more risks. i do think we need to build on top of social security or some sort of low cost very simple system and there are lots of proposals over the years to make it easier for people to save for retirement. we need to shore up social security and we need to create incentives for people to work longer. there is a strand of thought that says if that we make things miserable enough people will work longer. no of we create incentives so that people will work longer here's a quick one john shogun. you have worked 40 years. as far as social security is

concerned you are paid up. you don't pay in the system and there's no penalty but there's a bump up in your pay and you are -- to your employer all of a sudden. you quote steven landsberg at the university of rochester most economics can be summarized in four words, people respond to incentives and the rest is commentary. >> i think that's absolutely true. we have a system and i deal with disability. it's people get older disability starts rising that we have a disability system that says either you are disabled or you can work. a lot of people live in the gray area but reforming again these incentives incentives. how do we performer system in a way that people can continue to contribute and recognize that they do have some disabilities. again think about what will it take to encourage more people to work and by the way that everybody can. but for the people who can they will create the wealth that can support the secam.

>> "unretirement" is the name of the book, chris farrell is the author in the evidence is on the line from west virginia. >> caller: how are you both today? i'm interested in what you said about older americans searching for meaning and i guess you meant relevancy from working. as a former activist and wondering how do you engage older americans who are in retirement to work with young people who are interested in progressive social change but don't exactly know how. how do you motivate them to become more concerned and engaging connections with the youth? >> u.s. hit on a really important topic and there's a grassroots movement growing around the country. there's an organization encore.org based out of san

francisco. creating encore fellows in trying to encourage people to take their skills that they have developed over a lifetime and just what you are saying taken into the social server side of the economy. part of it is looking, people are looking for an income. this is not the traditional volunteer work. there's not a big demand for a huge income. understanding what you are doing, you are going to make only a little bit of money but that's okay. it's a contractor you want that contract. i'm going to show up for work and i'm going to do this job and i'm going to try to address some of the most pressing social issues in our society. i think that this is an enormous opportunity. it's an enormous opportunity for a country because we have this educated generation that does want to give back. not in the traditional sense necessarily of giving her money or volunteering your time. you are doing those things but in our work lives working in nonprofit organizations and

working in the social service sector, helping out with government agencies so encore.org is one resource that you can go to to find out where might i research this further and where can i in my neighborhood find somebody i can talk to? >> steve from stafford virginia hi. >> caller: good evening folks. i want to first of all congratulate chris for his book which i'm going to purchase. i am 69 years old and i'm i am currently drawing a marine corps retirement and also of course drying social security and i've been looking for a job now for a little over two years because i refused to give up working in the workforce. i've spent 47 years either serving in or supporting the united states marine corps and i want to continue to do that. i just want to again congratulate chris on his book

and tell you i'm living your book. >> host: haight steve are you bored to? are you frustrated? do you need the money? what's the situation? >> caller: the situation is not money. i have what i affectionately like to refer to as a sugar mama. she is very well-paid in her job and also a retired marine. so i do not have to work but i choose to for all the reasons that chris has addressed. i want to continue to make a contribution and that is why i continue to pursue a job of some kind supporting the marine corps whether it be full-time or part-time. >> guest: thank you so much and what he said about wanting to continue to make a contribution the previous caller talking about how do we give people more gauged in addressing some of the major issues in our

society. this is the kind of conversation that's going on and it's an experimentation. there's not a simple answer. we don't have an image that says here's what you do because we know what retirement looks like. we have a common image. we watch an episode of "seinfeld" and we can laugh at it even though we have never had an uncle or family living in a retirement community in florida but we understand. there's a cultural currency there. what they're talking about, this contribution as you are entering this latter stage of life and continuing to earn an income and continue to make a difference that's a very different conversation. it's a very exciting conversation is very different than what is in our public discourse. it's fear and loathing about aging in america. well, no it's not. those are two calls that say why it isn't. >> host: just a quick short interview