and that will all go away. >> richard kennedy retired analyst. also why people believe we're a things i loved that book. that is to get marijuana legalized with while in graduate school i just wander from your perspective any reason why it has taken so long? >> it is social and political with a puritan streak but once you go down the path we have spent against it for half a century committed to the war

on drugs people rarely change their mind to say that is wrong but that criminalization of marijuana is probably next then gay-rights it is not that i feel oppressed i've lived in l. a. [laughter] but you hear how they don't have morals. . .

at all conversations coming up next on booktv "after words," white house correspondent april ryan recounts her 25 year career in journalism at the presidential administration she's covered. she's interviewed by anne compton former white house correspondent for abc news. >> host: april ryan i don't

think any african-american reporter has covered the white house as long as you have and now you have taken the clinton-bush 43 and obama years and have written about them through the prism of something important your listeners on the networks and that is the race relations in the united states and i have to ask you when you first arrived at the white house in 1997 did you imagine that you would ever be there to cover the first african-american president? we have seen unsuccessful attempts to become president and we have heard from many people

right now in this town who may not want to say barack obama had a special kind of juice because we thought that a white woman would get the position first before a black man and to be able to say that i've covered the first black president is just amazing. what happened? >> guest: during the bush years there is a thing called stakeout and the all of the reporters gather outside of the meeting with the president or principle and come outside of the west wing door at the front entrance of the west wing and they stand at a microphone to the the person waiting with the president and this time it happened to be the congressional black caucus that just obtained the newest member senator barack obama of chicago. and everyone was looking for

senator obama and i couldn't see him. i was excited about trying to get an interview with him and at that time it was interesting because i kept remembering you know, where is he what is his name because at this time he was new. barack obama that i think that i transpose his name and first of all i said i don't know what i called him him, first get my name right. i was excited because he was a rock star. now this is not about me personally. this is about reporters trying to get to him before anyone else and that is the thing in this business you want to be the first with the most and i was excited to get to this new rockstar on the hill but i couldn't get his name right. it was a mess. >> host: you wrote he wasn't particularly popular. >> guest: all of them were house members. what was it to get a present

this newcomer? >> guest: he tried unsuccessfully against one of their fellow members and very loyal to one another in that group and because they are a small group on the hill very loyal to one another that was one strike against him. the second is that he was a senator. something that rarely happens in this country and he also was on a different schedule than the house, the senate and house are on different schedules and so when the congressional black caucus would meet it wasn't on his times he was kind of ask if he could be placed in the front part of the meeting to deliver the statement about what's going on in the senate. so he was left to be at the meeting without presenting anything in there was a lot of

hard feelings there. >> host: do you think talking about your time covering the white house can you talk a little bit about how you explain in the book how you were treated as not only an african-american or black reporter but you were a woman reporter and there still were not a lot of women in the press corps. let's start with that first year when bill clinton's second term and you arrived at the white house to cover sitting in the briefing room every single day. >> guest: i replaced it gentle man that was iconic and he was the first african-american to become the president of the white house press corps whose shoes were so hard to tell and when i came to the white house many people resented the fact that i could understand because he grew but because he grew up with so many of the veterans but

also i think coming in and pressing on urban and african-american issues which really wasn't done as much as i had it got people the wrong way because that wasn't really on the agenda on the system basis on a dalia basis and many people were wondering if she militants, who is she we haven't seen her around washington. i got a little bit of that and push back. i got a lot of pushback from within the press corps. something straight out of baltimore really there was a lot of pushback and people were wondering how is she getting these interviews ask i got a lot of pushback.

>> host: you write about not only your interactions with other reporters and your interactions with presidents but of course press secretaries, too talk about a couple of those moments and start under the bush administration. tony snow was the new press secretary. what happened with that comment? >> guest: the first day he came into the press briefing he was a rock star in chief when he came in so many people were in that room i couldn't even get to my seat and typically when you're in the white house and the briefing area you are downstairs doing your work or upstairs and then you have your designated seat and feel comfortable i can wait until the last minute or the two-minute warning to get my seat that wasn't the case to my surprise when i came upstairs every seat was taken. it was standing room only so i was on the right side of the briefing room against the wall and there was a question posed

to him by abc's martha radek and he was explaining what was going on and said i not going to hold or touch that and i kind of shrieked because that is something that the phrase was very sensitive racially sensitive. it was a rare rabbit story and i actually have that book just to remember this is what used to be but it is not. i couldn't believe it and when you think about that so the fox wouldn't find the rabbit i said okay. so there was a reporter standing in front of me that returned to me and i couldn't believe it so

after that first press briefing i marched myself right up to tony stone's office and i said that you realize what you did and he apologized and from that moment on we struck up a relationship and he really apologized for his insensitivity. he didn't realize how insensitive it was and what it would spur to the credit of the white house association i talked to the president at the time and he addressed the issue and i got an apology that people really don't understand -- >> host: an apology from -- >> guest: a reporter that did that and people don't understand how much you say at that podium can reverberate in the room were outside. there are so many ripples that go beyond that room and it really affected me that they. >> host: the press briefing, you that you and i covered it for many years that the press briefings were off camera largely up until about the time you came.

mike was the second term clinton press secretary and agreed to do it on camera something i know you quote him as being regretting and i tend to agree that the press briefings are supposed to be the raw ingredient of news. but you had a dustup, well that probably isn't the right word which struck me because i was therefore it was just because you were an african-american reporter but maybe because you were a woman and that was with robert gibbs. >> guest: i think you might be right about the woman issue, the gender issue. could be also because specialty. >> host: getting to that in a second, tell us what happened -- >> guest: it comes >> guest: it comes with this. the issue is the fact that i am not a part of the mainstream or the first in the second row. i focus on urban and minority

america. so how dare she. that's the way that i felt at that time create how dare she ask these questions. they were relevant questions i was hearing from my sources inside and outside of the white house. it wasn't a personality issue it was a real issue but unfortunately with the camera saw was the last day. people were not watching the last day. they didn't see the whole culmination of the today's christian two days that crescendo into that moment. >> host: this is after the first obama dinner and the white house social secretary who was an african-american woman from chicago was taking the heat for dropping the ball on this and you asked robert specifically about her role. what was it that he said to you? >> guest: he said something to the effect i kept asking i was on a roll with questions to the extent of calm down.

i told it to my son. that to my son. as a grown woman that has children and there's nothing wrong with his son but it was disrespectful and he was angry at the time and for people to believe that there is not retaliation when you ask the white house certain questions can and it doesn't have to be this white house it can be any that there is retaliation and it was seen on television, part of the retaliation was seen on television, and then afterwards you know i was fuming that day. i sat in my seat and i will never forget. i can't believe it. i was sitting on the fourth row on the end seat and i couldn't believe what had happened. i just sat there. the next thing you know i see the doors open and it was bill burton robert gibbs deputy press secretary. he said come here and i said no and he was shocked.

and i'm kind of a dull year as you know sometimes. i like what did i do wrong? in my mind i asked legitimate questions and what happened was, in my mind come and robert and his anti-upcountry good understanding of the have a decent relationship now but to my understanding there was loyalty there. the obama administration was new and they supported one another. they really supported this president and they were very loyal to this woman and there was a faux pas that caused a security breach at the white house. >> host: did you go up and see him at that point? >> guest: i didn't and it was a bad thing. there were other people in the room and i just i remember him telling me they are the first lady and apology and i said

before what? if i did anything to offend the first lady i apologize but i was getting e-mails and text messages at the time and this is the lead up to this. i said why do you disrespect me so much. they said you told me to e-mail them and i will talk to them. i'm saying to myself what did i do to deserve this craziness and sometimes it's rough and tumble and when you are someone that they precede because i don't have the backing of the larger networks come i don't have the backing of a lot of specialty that they are to focus on the same issue to kind of have my back to follow up on questions so it's not like i was alone and to my surprise many of my fellow correspondents were supportive for me saying that shouldn't have happened that way. it was a serious lot of

questions and those that told me because of that there was change at the white house and they went back to the old procedure of how to allow people to come in to the white house for events. but you have to remember this was about the security of this historic presidency. they have so many death threats and it's not only about african-american commits any president for this kind of thing to happen so that's what it is about for me. >> host: talk about the specialty media because i think a lot of americans don't understand there are the networks into and the wire services get those front-row seats and the major newspapers all have seats that you really do cover the white house and write about it in this book from a very particular vantage point which is crucially important to those who listen to you. >> guest: specialty media is the media that isn't necessarily

focused in on the traditional. we are a group we don't sit in the front row. specialty media can be radio or newspaper we are not abc cbs parody urban american radio network. we are the newspapers we are christian broadcasting, we are all different things but not necessarily a part of that front row. his panic but you do have a seat. >> smack dab in the middle. but i used to be in the sixth row when i started and we moved up to the third row and i do have a seat. and i think that is because i'm there every day and i asked questions of the principles and i asked pertinent questions and we have an audience that they

want to get a message to. >> host: does sometimes the communications operations take advantage of your specialty media by saying we want to get this story out there and they seek you out? >> guest: resident obama did an interview with pet. it reverberated more than it did with cnn or abc. so when they want to put out information they will sometimes go to a go to person. the washington bureau chief at nbc said sometimes you have to use it to your advantage and that was to my advantage, so the fact i'm working for a minority company that focuses on urban and african-american issues but

i also question on other issues as well. >> host: we talked about the press secretaries. the white house press colleagues that i earlier thought right down the road from you at abc and you write about asking a question of at the first presidential news conference and you said after you ask that question you were treated like the media slime. this is a rough and tumble business and we are happy for one another but it's like why not me. at the last couple of times i've gotten a question at the press conference in the last one at the end of the year and one around the summertime like how did she get that? why not? you get questions all the time and i seldom get to ask

questions in the press conference as much as others that we are a group that we are a hypersensitive group and we all want to have that moment that we get that question. we want that question. i think some of that was in the problem but i was new. and i worked hard. >> host: how did you get a question being brand-new? >> guest: at the time when i first came to the white house was more to him than it is now and you were there when it was much more open. >> host: in what sense? >> guest: i would come in from outside and have my coat on and went to the lower press and then at that time there was a door. >> host: this is the staff area. >> guest: yes. i don't think there was a door at the time that you could see people walking back and forth.

i happened to be standing there and i asked if i could go up and they said sure. >> host: the press secretaries office just outside the oval office. >> guest: yes. so i was headed to see the press press secretary that had to be at the time michael kerr and the secret service said you have to go back up and i said that he just told me that they said you have to go back. they were not understanding what was going on. my first encounter with the secret service. then all of a sudden walking down the hall was clinton and he didn't know who i was at the time i guess he thought i was a staffer or something. he stopped in the hallway and i'm standing there looking at him. he i introduced myself and i said please call on me sir.

he said okay. so there was a press conference that followed and i said maybe it did work to say hello to him and i told michael think you. he wrote a note back on the white house letterhead and that's all she wrote. >> host: you are writing a thank you note to the president for asking a question and then getting a letter back. >> host: in the news cautions as you talk about the first question when you were considered you called your self media slime. was it the content of your question and were they hostile toward you?

>> guest: i think it is just an adversarial relationship in that building and the american public to some extent they don't like us to some extent and others do. so when we get classified er negative slang. but it might have been for others but they don't like that question but it wasn't for them to say because once again the specialty is focusing on one thing and you may be focusing on another and that is the greatness of having a group of people in that room they ask different questions. but staying on the same subject -- there's more going on than just one thing. >> host: let me ask about bush 43 in that conference when he had a foreign visitor and you were seated not with the white house press corps. >> guest: i was seated with the african delegation and i found that very interesting.

>> host: why? >> guest: it was a faux pas on their part. i was in the seats to possibly be called on. >> host: but you were sitting with other black reporters? >> guest: yes and i have no problem with that but i'm a white house correspondent, i'm an american journalist and it was so odd even my colleagues on the other side of the room said what's going on because i was placed here and even the president, president bush even noticed during the news conference he said why are you sitting over there are you trying to get a question and i said i was placed here. he at least acknowledged it three times during the press conference and he even tried to put me out so that the african

presidents would at least call on me and he did. but even the chief of staff at the time after that said it was a bad move. >> host: to the president regard you differently as other reporters because you are black or because you represent a specific specialty media because he were a woman? did it in some ways work to your advantage? >> guest: i believe yes it did work to my advantage but also my disadvantage because resident clinton even told me this he said sometimes he didn't want to call on me because they didn't know what to expect. they didn't know what to expect from me and they sometimes didn't have an answer for me so many times i wouldn't get called on. president clinton told me that. so this was told to me during his time in office.

so it worked to my advantage when they wanted to talk to the black community or the urban community but it was tonight disadvantage because they didn't call on me much because they didn't know where i was coming from soap it's an interesting dynamic. >> host: in your book you write extensively to put today's president in historical perspective of where race relations have come in the united states and you make clear that there are still ways to go. selma, 1964 before they were covering the white house, the civil rights act has become law and now the focus is turning to the voting rights act and martin luther king jr. is in the white house urging the president lyndon johnson to move on it. now the film that has come out

has been criticized for putting lyndon johnson in a very bad light. you write about your conversation with the other person in the room at that moment. tell us about that. >> host: in the book i had an exclusive interview on the record with ambassador andy young in the room with doctor king talked to lbj. andrew young was not only a prominent figure in the civil rights community but a former congressman and georgia former un ambassador and someone who worked at that point as a relatively low-level white house staffer. a very credible person. more than credible. he was in the room. and this is what i don't understand. there's another piece i don't understand about all this back and forth about lbj and selma.

he says in his book that lbj did say that he didn't have the power to push it forward talking about the voting rights in 1964 come after they successfully got the civil rights act. as the reverend jesse jackson said come and this is something very interesting he said people like doctor king as a martyr but not a marcher for strategically these civil rights leaders had to figure out how to give him the power. so there were tactics they had to work strategically to work to get the power. what was that to go down to alabama and andy young talked about in the book how at the time in alabama african americans couldn't be on the street together it was against the law for three people to be in the street together in

alabama. >> host: it would be considered leading a protest? >> guest: yes so they have to find a way to begin the meeting for the protest for the marches. they worked through it and had to strategically figure out how to present the situation so that lbj could have the power to push through the voting rights act so this is actually someone who was in the room with doctor martin luther king and also reverend jesse jackson. but in the book they are on the record talking about this. there are audio recording of that former secretary who wrote about i believe using the transcripts of recordings held at the miller center for the study of the presidency done at the university of virginia so this should be a pretty well-documented fact. are you surprised at the kind of reaction the movie has brought

into his progress to finally have a movie that has turned out to be a commercial success about the life of doctor martin luther king? >> guest: i think the movie was magnificent and i mean it. it brought me to tears. i felt like i was in a black church somewhere. it was amazing to see. i knew when i saw the little girl i knew i was going to happen and it brought tears to my eyes. just talking about it brings tears to my eyes. it's very graphic to see them go back and forth on a bridge and understand that i'm an african-american and if they had done this we wouldn't be able to talk today and i wouldn't be able to question american citizens. this book wouldn't be here. so that's movie i don't believe that it showed everything. it was very graphic but it was much more brutal.

but it touched the end i commend oprah and brad pitt and everyone because i every one because i think it was a wonderful movie and you have to remember people that want to preserve history people died. this wasn't an easy struggle. people want to believe it was so sanitized. people died. that was some of the emphasis. people died for the right for black people to vote. >> host: and the residents into the reporting curvier that you've had condoleezza rice was a friend of one of those girls. did she work in the bush administration for the secretary of state, did she also dated she also feels she had a race portfolio? >> guest: she's in this book on the record and i think her

for her truth. she says she was there and she brought to the table it needed to be brought to the table. when it was time to have an anniversary event she said we must have this anniversary events if it were not for this event i wouldn't have been able to sit at the restaurant and eat at the restaurant. >> host: her father couldn't vote until 1952 and she said she couldn't go to a restaurant with her family until 1964. she said if it were not for this act -- we have to celebrate it. also there was another controversial piece at the very beginning of the bush years president bush has decided to write an amicus brief and it was about the university of michigan

-- he didn't want there to be preferential treatment in the process there -- so at the time the national security condoleezza rice said the any to be targets of opportunity that the words she used at the time. >> host: that extra measure of boost. >> guest: and the problem is that someone i don't know how it happened but someone said she supported president bush and they wanted to make sure that the story was told properly so i will never forget this is before i came to work that morning and i heard all of the coup plot and i have to go had to go to the doctor's appointment and i got a call and they said -- the white house press secretary at the time they said he would interview and i said sure.

i said i know what's going on. so we ultimately talked and she made it clear perfectly clear that she supported the targets of opportunity that some would consider affirmative action so she was against the train of thought that there shouldn't be preference in the admission of the university. and a special media reporter like you get gets that message to the audience that cares the most? >> guest: is now reverberates into "the new york times" and now reverberates into the "washington post" not just a specialty media. >> host: did you really cook a cooking dinner for bill clinton when he was president?

>> host: the timing as i recall from the book is laid in the bill clinton administration and in fact this was big time when he said i'm still relevant. the campaign was on for his successor and he was out publishing the car and walking the dogs and you were in washington at the white house every day. how did you come come about inviting the president could ever? >> guest: there were a lot of african-american reporters and producers and we would sometimes talk among ourselves. we would say so and so had an off the record with the president of the united states. we've are like so and so just got one. did you get one? it was back and forth. we were all like what's going on

here. so we started scratching our heads and we alternately started talking to mike. so bill douglas and his wife bill douglas a wonderful reporter opened up his home to allow us to have dinner with mike so we could talk about this and at the time the president wanted to talk about race as well. he wanted to get more information about our thoughts because the race initiative that he had at the table at the time was kind of floundering and he wanted to kind of get our thoughts. apparently the president liked us and wanted to hear what he has to say. so we initially started the process we had dinner with mike and he liked it so much he brought his own pepper sauce from south carolina for the dinner.

we had color screens, it was a really soul food dinner and being from the south he really welcomed it. and in the black community food brings you together and after church, just anniversaries, what have you food is a very calling sort of i am to perpetuate free-flowing conversation and we had a beautiful time and it was all the black reporters and producers at the white house at the time. so we sent you want to talk to us about race but spring the president here and not only that, he hadn't had an off the rack or with any of us. we thought once he left it would never happen and especially with everything hanging overhead with the scandal.

>> host: president clinton at this time had been impeached. >> guest: this was the summer of 1999 and actually we were surprised that we got a call that it was going to happen and associate the time i was one of the main people along with sonja from the associated press tried to make this happen and they said there is no way we can get into your house in baltimore. so who's house and once again bill douglas opened up his beautiful home and we were very thankful for that because we have had the best time. president clinton enjoyed it so much they had to pull him out of the house or 11:30. if you are around president clinton sometimes it is a monologue. but you are just engrossed and listen. to have the united states president sitting there with you at a soul food dinner and i'm

sitting right next to him watching him put chicken, potato salad, collard greens on one fork and eat it like my gosh. to have the conversations -- >> host: as a reporter what you get from that? it's not a story that you do the next day -- guesstimates off the record. you always want time with the principles to get to know who they are. you want to find out what they are thinking and why. he talked so much about things that happened in africa on the trip. he talked about a hodgepodge of issues and we got to know him a lot better to find out who he was and what he was thinking and why this happened and why this wasn't going to happen and it was an interesting time and it was off the record. >> host: the moment in the obama administration that you get to purge the end of the book are the ones i think so many

americans are acutely aware of, the beer summit the bartender would have looked like president obama's son if he had a son. would you make of what do you make of president obama's handling of some rather explosive moment under his watch? >> guest: the first term was kind of rough because many were looking at him as a savior. and he even wanted to make people believe change was going to happen as he was running for the office the first time. he could never reach that level of expectation that he set for himself. so people were also those that were hurting in a recession they were looking for hope and change that understanding he's a black man. it's different for him.

it's his first time as president. give him a chance. the first time -- and in into the news conference that's what he said. >> guest: the second term we have seen an african-american president. there is a president that happened to be african-american and i now say that because he is open in how he regards racial issues and as president you are president over all of america and america needs to understand

where do you come from on certain issues. personally i'm thankful to hear that because he brought out an issue a lot of people were sweeping under the rug for many decades and the issue of the police involved shooting and right now you have to marry this apart from law enforcement and try to root out the problem. >> host: should he have gone to ferguson missouri? >> guest: what would have been accomplished if heated? >> host: they don't usually go somewhere sensitive unless there is something they can bring something away from it. the >> guest: ferguson is the small piece of a bigger issue. people were tired. it is a town that was upside

down. i call it the american version of apartheid because it is inverted. you have the white rule in the black majority because of the inversion of the power structure. the police were largely white, the community was overwhelmingly black. >> host: it is majority white and black. so i think that the issues are real and if not obama then who. everything comes to the president and this is the thing that bothers me that we forget so easily. why are you asking if he's going to go to ferguson backs why not?

races come to every president. race issues have come to every president. lbj, john f. kennedy, abraham lincoln, all of these presidents dealt with issues of race. so people have to understand and when i get these calls it comes to the president and he is the one who can effectuate change. bill clinton, did he come close to issuing what some african-americans would consider an apology for slavery x. >> guest: did he co. did he come close come he wanted to. >> host: there was a speech that he covered in africa. >> guest: he didn't apologize for slavery. there was a back-and-forth fight between the white house to those

for and of those four and those against and i will never forget. i said i'm not looking for an apology, but why not and not only that but people were like no this doesn't need to happen to me yes this needs to happen but i think bill clinton was the only one who could have done it. the time was right. he was the first. george w. bush said they participated in the slave trade. he wasn't even going to take owner for what america did and present them barack obama at the time when he went wasn't the right time against him. but this president has had to strategically navigate through the water so he could successfully get a second term and it would have been the right time for him but i think bill clinton was the hope of this time of this era are there to be an apology and the factions in the white house in the buck we

have the account from the e-mail where they were crossing out certain words that were almost close to an apology and i just couldn't believe it. so they were close but it didn't happen. >> host: you have covered the white house through this prism but you are also in american to a mom of two beautiful kids who aren't that small anymore and you come from small close family do you vote? there are some reporters who don't but how do you handle your own personal political beliefs? >> guest: some of our colleagues they won't even go to some of the functions because they are so strong in their

feelings but i will say that i am an objective reporter. i am a person like anyone and i know we talk about the strength of a woman. i am a woman but at the same time i'm a reporter, too but sometimes the hat comes off and when it does i do both. but i'm not telling you who i vote for. i'm not going to get into that. >> host: i'm in the district of columbia where we can register as no party. but you voted primary as well as general election. >> guest: i'm a registered voter. >> host: i want to get into another footnote that i noticed in the book that struck me as a very nice touch when you talk about black-and-white you capitalize the word black and

capitalize the word white and i think that gives the terms a sign of respect. was that intentional? >> guest: yes. we are all here together. i have black friends and white friends. i love my black friends and my white friends. people want to be me that when you talk about black-and-white that you are being racist. no. it's about history and putting out there what is going on. statistics show that there is a disparity. but what i really want to impart is that we need to know what's going on and understand what's going on and it's not to say you did this or you didn't do this. it's about us all coming together and working this out. it is much respect for each side in each community. >> host: do you think that the press as a whole shows the same

kind of respect? >> guest: historically we know what happened 70 years ago. >> host: till everyone who that is and how he was honored by the white house correspondents association at its 110 or. >> guest: you are going to make me cry. 70 years ago there was a gentleman who is a wordsmith from a print reporter who took his job seriously and he wound up becoming a civil rights person that he was a reporter at the white house first african-american reporter at the white house and he was told by the white correspondence don't come in this room because if you step on someone's toes to find out what's going on -- >> host: this is what franklin roosevelt -- >> guest: yes to step on anyone's toes.

it's going to be a riot if you step on toes to be will be a riot. so ultimately president roosevelt let him come in and bottom-line this happened 70 years ago and it just boggles my mind we work so closely with one another and to think that where i stand now they wouldn't let him but moving fast forward to today you are always going to have a difference of opinion. some differences might be racial and others might just be a difference of opinion. i think as a whole the art trying to do better as a group. i think that we don't want anyone to get an advantage that's one thing. but professional are there some

people who may harbor some animus racially? there could be had there may not be. but i have had some things haven't but i will have to show you another day because it isn't worth fighting over right now. >> host: you do something many reporters don't do. at the end of your book you conclude with your explanation of how you have graded at the three presidencies covered and while i don't want to be a spoiler alert on how the book turns out, you covered bill clinton, george w. bush and barack obama who got eight years

none, put in a. you write president clinton is the reigning champion of diversity. why? >> guest: he has had the most confirmed african-american staff cabinet marshals judges, no enough judges, excuse me barack obama is the reigning champion on that one. but as far as u.s. marshals, cabinet persons, they worked hard on diversity and when i see they worked hard to do that and i give him the grade i gave him come it's good he did that because he brought another group of people who were not at the table to the table. a various administrations were african-american but he brought

people to the table to help make decisions. maybe we didn't get all the things we thought we wanted or needed but they were at the table and it started the process. he began not just a picture come committee began a substantive change that trickled down into other administrations. >> host: george w. bush had an african-american secretary of state and national security adviser and second african-american secretary of state at a time when the united states was very engaged around the world in trouble spots. does he get good points for that? >> guest: he says this when bush was president and he said it last year at this time george w. bush did have the most diverse republican administration and it's interesting that it was a republican who put his men and women of peace in that position

who were african-american and that was interesting. it took him to do that so this was the first administration you saw this prominent for an african-american and it followed suit in the obama administration with the attorney general. >> host: but that doesn't counterweight president bush's experience after katrina. >> guest: i don't think president bush was being racist with his handling of katrina. of course affected so many minorities and low for income people who were hurt by the by the start in louisiana and mississippi. tesco particularly in the ninth ward of new orleans where we saw people on rooftops begging for help. even president bill clinton for the buck presidency black-and-white he said i don't think george bush is racist he

said i think that his policy just didn't help elevate people in poverty. now when we talk about katrina president bush got in a lot of trouble for the fact that he was caught up in the states rights issue on katrina. the estate locale had to deal with it and that is what bog him down but because people were disenfranchised from their government had felt left alone because people died. barack obama is the first, probably not the last african-american president that he will cover but his grade is in your book isn't as high as bill clinton. >> guest: because of the first

term. i'm not good to say in action but because he didn't come out -- there are two different barack obama first term in the second term. we see more african-american president who is more african-american. he's comfortable in his skin at all. he knows who he is and he's not ashamed of it. first term he had to be strategic. there was a fight in the white house to pay the black farmers. he was the president who did give the payout after 17 et years of waiting for that money so he was the president who did that and at the same time it wasn't necessarily i'm going to do it. it's a tactics. >> host: are you surprised that barack obama didn't make a stronger case his first-term? >> guest: though because

looking back, he had to be who he was. >> host: because the economy was in such trouble? >> guest: also you had a tea party as well and i remember hearing from people in the administration we don't want to amplify issues of race and we know that race and politics will always follow this president but the issue was any of them felt they had to walk a fine line because anything they did in this administration that specifically targeted african-americans they would hear from certain parties, certain groups and against any effort they tried to do. >> host: you have been at the white house through a very exciting time and thank you for sharing your thoughts and your book with us here today. >> host: think you. that was the "after words,"

booktv signature program which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, policymakers and others familiar with their material. "after words" airs every weekend on booktv of 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch online. go to booktv.org and click on afterwards in the book tv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page.

he was imprisoned without charge in guantánamo bay since 2002. he kept a diary over the past ten years. during this book event, two of the attorneys discuss guantánamo and his