♪ ♪ ♪ in a senate hearing on the financial exploitation of seniors the grandson of -- described how she was fraught defrauded of millions by her own son and susan collins chairs the

senate special aging committee. this is an hour and a half. >> good afternoon. it is my great pleasure to call to order the very first hearing of the senate special committee on aging. in the 114th congress i have had the honor of being a member of this committee since my very first days in the united states senate and i am delighted to now assume the chairmanship. this is the first time that a maine senator has chaired the committee since the mid-1990s when my predecessor and good friend senator bill cohen for whom i worked for 12 years served as the committee's chair. i'm also pleased to welcome new and returning members to this committee and onto about --

delighted that my good friend and colleague senator claire mccaskill of missouri will service the committee's ranking member. senator bill nelson, the former committee chairman, has also chosen to remain a member of this committee and he will continue to share his expertise with us. throughout its history, the aging committee has spurred congress to take action on issues important to older americans through our hearings investigations and reports. and it has done so in a bipartisan manner. i will continue that fine tradition, working closely with senator mccaskill and all of our members. this year the committee will focus on three major issues

retirement security, biomedical research investment for diseases like alzheimer's and diabetes that disproportionately affect our seniors and financial schemes and other scams targeting older americans. today we will examine financial exploitation that harms far too many of our nation's most vulnerable seniors. this committee has brought to light many schemes that have defrauded seniors out of their hard-earned retirement savings. it is deeply troubling when a senior falls victim to one of these schemes but even more egregious is when the perpetrator is a family member a caregiver or a trusted financial advisor. financial exploitation of older

americans is a growing epidemic that cost seniors an estimated two-point $9 billion in 2010 according to the gao. in maine a long there are 14,000 new reports each year of senior abuse which includes financial exploitation and in as many as 90% of financial cases the seniors victimized by someone he or she knows well. many of these cases the victim is too ashamed to report financial exploitation particularly when it involves a family member. as a consequence the true incidence of this kind of abuse is not known.

identifying victims of financial exploitation in my state is particularly difficult because we take a lot of pride in our self-sufficiency. it's difficult for many seniors to ask for help. in addition since victims who have had their assets stolen by family members typically do not want their relatives to be criminally prosecuted, the stolen money is rarely recovered. combating financial abuse of seniors is primarily the responsibility of state and local agencies, particularly adult protective services agencies. prevention and response to cases of abuse require coordinated efforts including state and local agencies, law enforcement,

the social work and medical communities and financial institutions. the federal government also plays an important role in providing leadership to combat this problem. the elder justice coordinating council led by the department of health and human services has brought together 12 federal agencies to coordinate efforts to protect older individuals from abuse including financial exploitation. i also want to acknowledge the critical role played by state regulatory agencies and i am particularly pleased to welcome to our hearing judith shaw who served as securities administrator for the state of maine. maine i'm happy to say is on the cutting-edge of helping to

combat -- through programs like the innovative senior safe program which is the first of its kind in the nation. i won't preempt her testimony by describing it but i think it provides a model for many states. financial exploitation knows no socioeconomic boundaries. victims range from seniors who have very modest financial means to those who have amassed great wealth. for example the daughter of the maine senior sold her mother's home and moved her into a camper into her backyard. as if that were not bad enough that daughter and her boyfriend went on to to please her mother's lifesaving -- life savings over the course of two years leaving her pending those as well as homeless. while individuals of limited

means are particularly vulnerable even the wealthiest the most fortunate americans are not immune from financial exploitation. today we will also hear from philip marshall who is the grandson of a well-known philanthropist and socialite, brooke astor who summered in maine for decades and was so generous to our state. he will testify about how his father mistreated his mother and mismanaged her assets while she suffered from alzheimer's. to be clear there are many instances in which it is vital for a senior to have the assistance of a family member, friend or other trusted advisor to help manage his or her finances wisely and prudently particularly if that senior becomes ill or loses cognitive ability.

this is another factor that makes this issue so troubling and so complicated. i look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses today. we have a great panel about the efforts that are underway to address financial abuse of full marble seniors. i do want to also apologize to our panel that we are going to have a vote at 2:45. we will try to keep it going. whoever's here will take over the gavel. that's how trusting and bipartisan we are and we will try to make the interruptions as brief as possible. senator mccaskill. >> thank you senator collins. a year ago if i had been approached in the hallway by one of those pesky people with a microphone and i were asked if the democrats were to lose control of the senate and you were to take over as the ranking member of the very first committee you could ever serve on as a ranking member who would

you pick for your chairman? i would have said without hesitation my friend, my mentor and my role model susan collins. she has been an example to me from the day that i arrived of courage and independence when it is called upon and of working across the aisle. i have watched her with senator lieberman and the homeland security committee when she was the ranking member showed determination and toughness when she needed to but always willing to listen and cooperate when it was essential so i'm very proud to serve under chairman collins and i think we will have a terrific and productive committee looking at a very important issue in our country. the senior senior financial exploitation is not new to any of us. as a prosecutor in kansas city i saw first-hand both horrific and heartbreaking instances of elder abuse physical emotional and

yes financial. roughly one in five seniors will be a target of some form of financial exploitation to the tune of billions of dollars in losses each year. this hearing will focus on those cases with an additional conflicting factor. when the perpetrator is a family member, a trusted caretaker or a close friend or advisor. the numbers here don't really tell the story and thankfully we have several witnesses who can share first-hand the horrible excesses of this type of the abuse. perpetrators are constantly developing new ways to gain access to our seniors life savings and focus upon a generation that's typically has been more trusting or with less willing to subreport. the victim is a family member however these become some of the most complex cases around. often a family member is legally

appointed as the guardian of assets. a victim of those around him a suspect what is happening but feel more powerless or ashamed to report. often the victim will struggle with filing charges against a child or family member. prosecution involves not only criminal action but civil action to potentially regain assets. today i want to reiterate that we cannot shy away from holding these perpetrators accountable for their actions. the abuse and fraud perpetrated upon her seniors is unconscionable. it's a fairly recent come on and that we have to start -- started discussing these cases because for too long they were dismissed as family members. today we will hear from page ulrey a seattle prosecutor specializes in elder abuse criminal cases and she will talk about a few of her college she has in this arena. only a handful of offices in this country have an office like

the one she works in king county washington and that is troubling. financial exploitation cases involving the elderly are difficult to prosecute her we need competent and trained professionals at every level from the detectives and mental health professionals forensic accountants and of course trained investigators and prosecutors. ms. ulrey will share how she's trying to train people in your area and around the country. last year she came to missouri to help develop ways to protect seniors in my state who suffer from cognitive impairments from the coming -- becoming victims of financial fraud. i must adjust the desperate need for increased cooperation at the federal state and local level and let me reiterate that because then she is the king county prosecutor i am sure she has her own stories to tell about the stems and about fights. take it to the city prosecutor. take it to the county

prosecutor. i'm not going to take this case it's too complex to get to the u.s. attorney. we must address this cooperation cooperation. there are those who say this is a state issue. yes, it is but it is bigger than just a state issue. there is much the federal government can do better to assist in local prosecution of these cases. jail cases. gao founded in 2012 review this issue seven different federal agencies were working to solve this problem that were consistent with their own issues but not necessarily supportive of one another for the overall goal. since that time these agencies have in fact begun to work together and i want to highlight the work of one of them on hand today. it consumer financial protection bureau providing guidance for family members and caregivers on how to respond to someone else's finances. my colleague senator warren is personally aware of the efforts of the cfpb in this area. they are still so much more we could be doing and are not.

reality is we don't have data of the scope of the problem. we don't know many cases are reported to adult production services nor do we know how many adult elderly cases are criminally prosecuted. i hope our witnesses can help us to examine how we have become more creative and assertive but firmly within our role in the federal government. i look forward to speaking with their witnesses about how we can start to eliminate aging discrimination and bias in our attitudes towards prosecution of these cases. too often they are dismissed because they are difficult to prove easier to address as a civil matter or too complex especially when you're dealing with the mental capacity of the victim. my home state of missouri passed a law strengthening the definition of financial exploitation of seniors. i continue -- and tend to do everything to contain just for that effort. thank you the chairman are witnesses for taking the time to be your day and i look forward

to hearing your testimony. >> thank you very much senator and thank you for your generous comments. i want to welcome to the committee a new member of the senate. we are very happy to have you join us on the committee and welcome back to the committee this year senator warren of massachusetts. we are going to turn to our panel next in the interest of time. first we will be hearing from philip marshall who is a professor at roger williams university in rhode island. he will be speaking today as a family member of someone brooke astor who i mentioned in my opening statement and we very much appreciate your willingness to come forward and share what i am sure is a deeply personal

story. next we'll hear from judith shaw who serves as the securities administrator in maine and is president-elect of the north american securities administrators association and international organization devoted to investor protection. we will then hear from cap linklaen executive director of national adult protective services association and finally last but certainly not least we will hear from page ulrey the senior deputy prosecutor in king county washington as senator mccaskill as already explained. mr. marshall thank you for being here. >> chairman collins franky membership haskell distinguished committee members thank you for inviting me to testify today. i'm so grateful for your leadership and action on issues

of injustice. my name is philip marshall. i'm a professor of rhode island and a resident of massachusetts and i'm also the grandson of new york philanthropist brooke astor victim of elder abuse by her son son, my father. as president of the vincent astor foundation my grandmother advance its mission by giving millions of dollars to social and cultural causes. in 1998 president bill clinton afforded her the presidential medal of freedom. well into her 90s she was at center stage as new york's first lady and a humanist aristocrat with a generous heart. by 2000 when she was 100 she disappeared from the limelight. she didn't return until july july 2006 when my guardianship petition which i filed to protect my grandmother against my father was discovered by the

press. front page headlines displayed disaster from mrs. astor. my grandmother would never want to be known as one of america's most famous cases of elder abuse nor did she. in the throes of dementia to choose to be victimized to be deprived to manipulated and robbed all as part of a calculated scheme to defraud us later characterized by the manhattan district attorney at the sad circumstances surrounding my grandmother had informed a timeless cause in elder justice. this may be your greatest most lasting legacy. in my petition i stated my father with reference to his mother has turned a blind eye to her. intentionally and repeatedly ignoring her health, safety personal and household needs

while enriching himself with millions of dollars. after three months and battle a settlement was reached with permanent guardianship awarded. my grandmother spent her final days in the country house with care comfort and free from fear. a criminal investigation was launched by the manhattan d.a. when a possible forgery was referred to as elder abuse. in 2009 after six months criminal trial my father was found guilty on 15 of 13 or 14 counts against him all but one held up on appeal. this was a bittersweet harvest yet this harvest has so nursed the cause of elder justice. later charities were awarded

tens of millions of dollars that my father decided to direct it himself. because my grandmother now rest in peace i could resume my life as before but i realized to be complacent about elder justice is to be complicit in elder abuse. since 2010 i launch my own journey for elder at justice beyond birth. border to border coast-to-coast face-to-face with elder justice practitioners. i think thank them for doing so much for so many with so little. with help by successfully detected abuse and helps my grandmother. many elders lacked vigilant oversight and remain helpless and hopeless. here are all those providing services to older persons under federal programs should be screened and trained on elder

abuse detection and resources for a response. in addition of bill protective services needs federal funding and support to respond adequately to increasing numbers of cases of elder abuse. while my grandmother galvanize a collective and coordinated response to some elders are re-victimized by a fragmented system. here much greater financial support an expansion a multidisciplinary teams would be so helpful. while my grandmother lived in a jurisdiction with an elected d.a. who cared and how it in elder abuse unit most people don't. others need to have law enforcement and prosecutors who are trained in elder abuse and will respond two and prosecute these cases. while my grandmother's stolen assets were proclaimed many others never reclaim their money

or their lives. enhance detection mandatory reporting and greater reporting of suspicious activities will still help. financial monitoring must be matched physical monitoring to ensure world -- elder's well-being. finally i urge congress to reauthorize the elder justice act and the older americans act. while elder abuse is a trend it's not our destiny. thank you. >> thank you very much mr. marshall for your very compelling testimony and your advocacy. mrs. astor was beloved in our state as well and did so much good throughout her life. ms. shaw. >> thank you senator. chairman collins franky membership haskell members of the committee on judith shah

securities administrator and cochair of the main council for elder abuse prevention. i'm also the president-elect of the north american securities administrators association although i am not testifying before the committee in that capacity today. i am honored to discuss one of the most serious problems facing our elderly financial exploitation and to present one approach currently and use in maine. addressing senior financial exploitation is difficult but critical. many in our elderly population are vulnerable due to social isolation and distance from family and other support networks. the days of americans growing growing old and communities surrounded by generations of family members are fading. what do we know about this population? we know that older adults are often targets of financial fraud scams and exploitation in part because they have tangible assets including homes and pension streams that are attracted to scam artists.

older adults often retire and no longer accumulate health. one of financial fraud or exploitation occurs even seniors with significant savings have a limited ability to recoup their losses. this is a community problem that requires a holistic solution. we must all come together to weave a new safety net for our elderly breaking down barriers and walls that have kept us from seeking achievable solutions. we must identify those were best positioned to determine red flags early on and encourage reporting referrals to appropriate government agencies. where do we start? we discovered one of the most available resources to be our banks and credit unions. we partnered with main's disability services legal services for the elderly the main bankers association to develop senior safe. senior safe was created to increase identification and

reporting of elder financial exploitation specifically for financial institutions. prior to developing senior safe main counsel for elder abuse prevention that with representatives from the banks and credit unions to identify barriers to reporting suspected cases of elder financial exploitation. what we learned was that the system lacks the feedback loop substitutions were often left wondering whether the customer had been assisted or if there was even a problem in the first place. russell learned banks and credit unions lacked direction on what to do when red do when web sites identify. senior safe is comprised of three components training to consumer brochure and quick response cards for front-line staff and managers of financial institutions. frontline staff are trained to identify red flags for elder abuse and managers are provided with information to help them develop internal reporting protocols. participants are advised to contact protective services when

in doubt about a seniors capacity since aps is equipped to make that assistance. however there's no reason to believe the customers incapacitated the main office of securities has agreed to be the second agency except in reports and referral center senior safe. we received telephone calls from banks and credit unions and review the information to determine whether to investigate the case or refer it to another appropriate federal or state agency. the benefits of this type of reporting and referral system are far-reaching. it leads to improve safety in the community for seniors and other customers of a financial institution. proactive measures help promote goodwill in the community and affirm the commitment of institutions to their customer's well-being and financial independence. all of this sounds wonderful but has not been affected. the answer is yes. the first bank employee training occurred and there were 2013

train by training for credit union personnel. statistics do not tell the whole story and senior success. it describes several real-life examples including one of my own in iran testimony. the customer had no idea who the individual was and had not contracted with him. aps was informed and is now caring for the victim who lost over $14,000 to the known scam artists in the note family member to care for her. the types of community in which we are grandparents or parents were raised are becoming less routine. we must work together to create a new safety net using every

valuable resource available to us. combating elder abuse and financial exploitation requires consistent education identification reporting investigation and prosecution. thank you for your attention and providing me with the opportunity to testify today. i'd be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you very much missed shot. ms. quinn. >> madam chairman rank you membership haskell and committee members thank you for the honor of speaking to you today about the terrible problem of elder abuse. i'm cap linkline director of the national adult protective services association. a membership organization which helped found the justice coalition with a seal funding.

we created the advisory board on elder financial exploitation on which i'm proud to say philip marshall served. elder abuse is a huge expensive deadly problem but one that is largely invisible. one in 10 older persons which is about 5 million people is maltreated, twice the number combined number of child abuse and domestic violence victims. it kills. victims are three times more likely to die the non-of these cohorts. it's expensive costing individuals their families financial institutions and taxpayers billions of dollars annually. over 90% of reported elder abuses abuse is committed by the victims on family members especially their adult children and finally financial abuse go occurs often with physical and emotional abuse and neglect. congress held first hearings on elder abuse in the 1970s but

only recently thanks to the elder justice coalition fielder justice act the justice coordinating council and this committee has any serious intention begun to be paid. we hope attention will continue and grow as federal investment in both child abuse and domestic violence work has resulted in significant reductions in the incidence rates of both problems. >> ms. quinn pardon me for interrupting. there are four minutes left in the vote and as my colleagues know i have never missed one and more than 18 years so i'm going to excuse myself. senator gillibrand if you voted? you need to go also. why do we take a brief break in the hearing.

senator mccaskill or senator scott who are both on their way when they get back will reset -- resume but they are on their way. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> thank you for your patience. ms. quinn i think you are in the middle of your opening comments. would you like to continue? >> i thought maybe i got to start over. >> you certainly can. [laughter] i will start at the beginning of paragraph. congress held hearings on elder abuse in the 1970s but only recently thanks to the elder justice coalition and secretary greenlee's leadership in acl and

the elder justice coordinating council in no small part to this committee has any serious attention been paid to the issue. we hope that attention will continue and grow as federal investment in both child abuse and domestic violence work has resulted in significant reductions in the incident rates above. older persons receive no direct support from our national government. there's no dedicated funding for a psp only available statutorily office of a system for delta cannot protect themselves. the act passed in 2000 had its first for $4 million in 2015 to support us when the national infrastructure but no funding for direct services. i'm lighting it would shut down a pass in some states. many of the community services necessary to keep victims at home.

financial exportation is generating reports complex and difficult to investigate perpetrated along with physical and emotional abuse and neglect but victims frequently lack cognitive capacity. realtor agencies in 2013 issued guidance to clarify federal law does not prohibit reporting elder abuse but many banks will not provide aps with clients financial records which aps must have to substantiate the abuses occurring. verifies federal guidance clarifying records may be shared with aps in a timely manner could be stopped earlier. i believe financial institutions would welcome this clarification. secondly financial institutions should be granted the authority to temporarily freeze accounts

when there's evidence the owners being deprived of. for examples example sending money to a jamaica lottery scam to provide time to contact aps or take other measures. some of which are on evidence here. this is a partial stack of all the many reports for the many hearings that go back almost five decades. this not only will protect assets over the long-term but to reduce demands on medicare medicaid and publicly funded programs. we hope this will be the first of a series of hearings and actions to address elder abuse and financial exportation we

stand ready to work with you to strengthen our ability to protect our parents and grandparents. >> thank you for your your testimony had no senator collins has introduced you but we would love to hear your opening comments. >> thank you mr. chairman. i'm a prosecutor with the king county prosecutor's office in seattle washington. 14 years ago i was appointed to play my offices first elder abuse prosecutor. since then with the exception of a two-year hiatus-prosecuting cases of elder exploitation neglect physical assault sexual assault and homicide. everything case that i handled involved in the steam community member of the town north of seattle. she was in her 80s that was in good shape financially. she owned her home and had

plenty of money to cover any care needs for the rest of her life. her son was her power of attorney and handled her finances. in 2008 kim sharpe began to steal from her. first to make transfer from her bank account to his and then by lying to get a reverse mortgage on her house and taking those proceeds too. during the next four years than sharp stove over $490,000 from his mother for a new house, diamond ring for his fiancée his business and to fund his lavish lifestyle. in 2011 his daughters -- her daughters figured out and call police. we filed 7000 counts of felony theft and mortgage fraud. helen was moved to a nursing home closer to one of her daughters. what was the impact of this exploitation? after learning about helen kept opening her purse to look for her money certain she had misplaced it.

the family was torn apart. with no money left helen was forced to go on medicaid. she died a few months ago, heartbroken. that's how it is with elder financial exploitation. we all pay the price. seniors their families and all levels of government and the price is huge. countless victims victims victims like hell and sharp boost their savings their health and independence as a result and are forced to rely on public programs. we don't know the overcall cost of elder financial association but it's safe to say the cost of the government alone is astronomical. first create infrastructure to help the criminal justice system at the local state and federal level handle these cases. in the sharpies who did have some infrastructure in place but not enough. we have specialized elder abuse

detective in the specialized prosecutor but we had no victim services to help helen sharpened her daughters navigate the obstacles they faced as a result of exploitation. most of these cases are never pursued. we also have a resource center for which professionals can turn for information and assistance. second develop and conduct training. justice professionals a training set of those and many other disciplines that encounter elder abuse and could intervene as they knew what they were seeing. i'm talking about doctors nurses mts notaries public caregivers social workers civil attorneys and accountants and those in the financial services industry. tons of research and pilot test. unnecessary ignorance is a huge hurdle. we urgently need funding to expand her knowledge about how best to reduce financial

exploitation recoup the huge losses that causes in screening for cognitive impairment which dramatically increases risk. we also need accurate calculations about the cost of the problems we can develop a commensurate response. the sharpe case i told you about concluded two weeks ago. kim sharpe pled guilty and was sentenced to a sentence of 43 months in prison. he will be ordered to pay restitution to the family for the money he stole into the government for the medicaid funds that paid for helen's care. i wish i could say this case was a complete victory but i can't. while we were able to obtain some justice for the sharpe family it's almost certain neither they nor the government will ever get their money back. the emotional damage that was done to the sharps can never be undone. every day all around us financial exploitation is devastating countless elders and their families and costing the government countless dollars but

this is a problem with solutions. with modest investment in improving of the structure training and research congress and federal agencies can dramatically improve how we prevent and respond to this terrible problem. thank you very much. >> thank you very much for your testimony. i am happy that i was able to hear all but two of the witnesses and part of the other two witnesses and of course i have read your written testimonies. i want to thank the members of the committee who have joined us, senator scott and senator casey sense i last acknowledge this to everyone. ms. shaw i want to start with you because in your written testimony you talk about what you described as your guardian angel, the manager of a credit union who alerted you to the fact that your own mother might be a victim of abuse.

could you tell us a little bit about that and also are there obstacles to financial institutions coming forward and reporting abuse such as privacy laws or other regulations that might make them hesitate even if they have evidence of exploitation? >> yes, thank you very much senator. i grew up in a small town in northern maine one of four children. like many children in small towns in northern maine i went to college and moved away along with my brothers but my sister stayed behind to pursue her education. my mother became a legal secretary when she graduated high school for a small law firm and a small town and remained there for 60 years. my father died at the age of 57 and he was sort of the socialite

in our family. my mother's big social activity really was her regular visits to the credit union so she came to know the people in the credit union very well. as my mother near her retirement fef the credit union notice he wasn't talking about her grandchildren quite so much. she was not caring for her hair and her clothing the way she had before and fe became a little concerned. she looked at my mother's bank accounts accounts and realize they were just drains automatic withdrawal coming out of vermont's checking account. my sister is on that account with my mother so she called kathy and said we should look into this and found mom was concerned about living on social security when she retired. her law firm had no retirement plan available to her so she had fallen victim to one of these work from home scams. fortunately effie and my sister

were able to identify early on and stop the scam and my sister had the good foresight to take my mother to see her doctor and learned that my mother has early-stage dementia and is now being treated for that. we might not have identified it as early on if effie hadn't come into the picture and we are very grateful to her. that was before senior safe but that is one of the reasons why i spent two years to develop senior safe. it's clear to me that people at banks and credit unions on the frontline. i think they sometimes are hesitant to report because they don't have that feedback loop that i was talking about. they make a report to adult protective services but would not hear back about whether or not there really was a problem whether it was correct for them to make that referral. there are also privacy concerns. it's very helpful in the state of maine with senior safe they

have that feedback loop. there's also amenity for reporting to adult protective services which i think it's very important but i would agree with ms. quinn that it would be helpful to further clarified the gramm-leach-bliley act to make it clear that it's not a violation to make these reports to federal agencies or law enforcement. the guidance that the federal regulators put out was helpful but i do think that further clarification may provide additional comfort to financial institutions. >> thank you very much. mr. marshall how difficult was it for you to figure out what was happening to your mother particularly since she and her very last years was suffering from dementia? >> at first quite frankly my stepfather had passed away in

2002 and i was working toward settling his estate. he had total recall on a good day but played too much mr. lawyer. i learned enough to then look south from vermont and in that case to new york and i realized instead of my grandmother being cared for she was being compromised. i didn't know what to do. luckily there were some caretakers and staff and we had mutual trust. i could find out but having those first lines of defense and those who were interested in my grandmother's health. what happens is the greatest concern concerned that we had was her psychological abuse and her manipulation. quite frankly i went to a friend and i asked him and he had been through similar circumstances. he said philip, follow your heart first, then follow the money.

i was able to obtain enough documentation and financials which coupled with other components of my guardianship allowed us to get an immediate temporary garden -- guardianship but because he's other aspects of elder abuse are so difficult to document in my case certainly the financial so helps. >> thank you. senator mccaskill. >> how quickly did law enforcement get involved in your grandmother's case? >> law enforcement got involved. i filed a petition for guardianship in july of 06 and law enforcement got involved in october of 06. after an alleged forgery was brought before the district attorney. >> let me turn to ms. ulrey. i know, i don't know how you manage to get the police in king

county and metropolitan seattle and how you got the kings county d.a. office. i think your boss or maybe your previous boss i don't know who started this has done a great thing. i think it's important for us to understand the barriers around it's not big enough and this is the constant refrain that families hear from law enforcement, there is not a gun. there is not blood on the street street. there is not pressure from the sergeant were the head of detectives to close the cases because this is not a statistic that is generally tracked. so there is very little to get the law enforcement community engaged other than the prosecutor who feels pressure

from either their own compass or from some outward source. what would be the thing that we could do that would most like a fire under local law enforcement and state d.a.? >> that's an excellent question because i think basically many of these cases stop when that message is heard in the community that prosecutors are not going to prosecute the case. aps doesn't bother law enforcement law enforcement doesn't bother investigating so having a prosecutor stepping up and saying we will take on this issue is crucial to its being addressed properly. i was lucky enough to have a boss who keyed into that early thanks to paul greenwood was an elder abuse prosecutor in san diego that there's also a grant going on by the office of violence against women that funds training across the spectrum the criminal justice system so that it gets law

enforcement prosecutors adult protective services and victim advocates together at the table to be trained on how to respond to these cases. the communities that i've gotten that grant had begun to take on this issue in a dramatically different way. that's one potential solution to expand that program. right now i think it's the smallest program that they fund. the other thing is i think more prosecutors would take this on if they had training so going back to my point about the need for and the structure i do think prosecutors would care and would be willing to take on these cases that they understood how to prove them that there is huge knowledge issues here. we don't know how to deal with capacity issues which are so common in these cases. we don't know how to handle analysis of the financial documents which are crucial to prosecuting these cases. we don't have doctors to talk to the rear lacking the tools we need to start responding properly so i think it goes back to training to encouraging

prosecutors to create dedicated prosecutor positions in encouraging multidisciplinary teams as well. >> in your world lets assume that the police department gets a report or the das office gets one directly. who are the capacity of value writers that you call on? are they through the probate court or adult protective services? >> there's only call onto the probate court who do most of the court of valuations. there are some that aps uses way to quite a few training quite a few trainings of law enforcement officers in different parts of the country and that is the one refrain i hear from them. actually there are two refrains. one is a that prosecutors are not prosecuting these cases and we are doing evaluations. >> the prosecutors will be town -- in town the next two weeks. many of you have been contacted to come to their office and this is so this is a great time to bring up how many elder abuse

cases they have filed in the last year and i intend to do that. >> thank you senator. we are going to recognize senators to do questions in the order of their arrival. senator warren. >> thank you very much madam chairwoman. i just want to say congratulations on your chairmanship and it was a great honor to work with you the past two years on the aging committee and i very much look forward to your leadership in this committee. i'm also looking forward to serving with ranking member mccaskill. the leadership of both of you will be wonderful. we are discussing the financial explication of our seniors and on that topic i'm particularly concerned about helping seniors protect their retirement savings savings. it includes money in their 401(k)s and their ira's so i want to focus on the financial advisers who take advantage of people who rely on them. in a recent study harvard researchers sent actors

disguised as customers to banks and brokerages to get advice on their retirement portfolios and they found the advisers consistently steered customers to the highest fee products. in other words the bankers and advisers gave themselves a great deal while they gave their customers a lousy deal. and this can cost customers a lot. even a 1% increase in fees could cost the retiring $100,000 in savings over their careers. so i wanted to ask about ms. shaw is what can we do to make sure that our seniors don't end up investing in retirement savings and funds that benefited the brokers more than the customers. >> thank you senator. certainly i have supported that

position of the north american security association to encourage the securities and exchange to offer a fiduciary standard. this disclosure is very key as well. disclosure of fees disclosure of information and an informed investor is an investor is going to be better protected. certainly working toward including a more robust disclosure of fees the product components. products are very complex to make sure that all of that is made perfectly clear to investors before they invest and to make sure any product retirement product or otherwise that an investor has put in is suitable for that investor. we do want advisers who should be working and we hope they are working in the best interests of the investor. i would be nice to say that every advisers operating in the best interest of their.

>> appreciate you racing that because i think it's an important night. the director of morningstar which is a leading research company made this remark about high fees. quote if there's anything in the whole world that you can take to the bank it's the express ratios help you make a better decision. and every single time period and data point tested low-cost funds made high-cost funds. products may result in less money for seniors and to make matters worse according to a study by aarp more than three-quarters of individuals don't even know that most of these salespeople don't actually have to offer investment advice that is in the customer's best financial interests. so ms. shaw are you worried that

because investment advisers don't have to advise in the customers best interest that this might give an unfair advantage to bad actors who push products that benefit themselves over good actors who are doing everything they can to help their clients reach a secure retirement and protect that retirement? >> it's certainly a concern and it's part of the strong investment consumer protection that has been a part of my agency since the days of senator collins running our department in maine. it's an area that we look at in maine and that we are looking at through many different lenses including you maybe aware nasa nasa did a fee study not long ago. we are working very closely with industry to improve fee disclosure. they are at the table working with us to improve fee disclosure and provide ways in which consumers and customers can hopefully make better

comparisons before we make decisions. there is a long way to go and it takes only a few minutes to look at our office's web site to see some of the enforcement actions we have taken against advisers to see there are indeed bad actors out there but we plan on staying the cop movie. >> i want to thank you for your work and i want to thank all of you for being here today. we need to do more to protect our seniors but also particularly to make sure financial advisers don't steer their clients into retirement products that maximize the advisers profits while they drain away the client savings. that's particularly important for seniors who just don't have the ability to recover from this so thank you very much. thank you particularly ms. shaw and thank you chairman. >> thank you. senator tell us. >> thank you madam chairman ladies and gentlemen that panel i thank you for being here. i'm sorry i'm late. i had a vote in two other committee meetings so it's not for lack of interest in this.

ms. shaw i have a question for you. prior to coming here i was speaker of the house in north carolina and i'm interested in the singer safe program and appreciate maine's leadership on this. can you tell me about a new challenges that you all had in the process of implementing that program that benefits? >> i think the first challenge we experienced was getting to the point where the banks and credit unions were comfortable making referrals to the office of security. the other key component of the program is to make sure there is this partnership and collaboration. we say this is a no wrong door approach. in other words a report could be made to any of the partners. their report is made to adult protective services and they determine determined they do not have jurisdiction a bank or credit union need not be concerned that that's going to the end of the story that aps has committed they will then make a referral to our office so we can assess it and either referred to another agency for

the senior needs other resources perhaps a referral to a domestic violence program we will make sure that happens. i would say the key components are to make sure there are two points of entry and state government not just adult protective services and their is a very strong partnership with all available community-based resources. has to be a public-private partnership and multidisciplinary is the only way to go. >> thank you for that. is there any focus on expanding the scope using this as a platform for abusing big data and other areas that potentially extend out to providers or other areas outside of banks and credit unions that may be able to provide a face to her three three. >> thank you for that question. we have now modified it by used

by law enforcement. law enforcement very soon with something called the radar card that is the size of the summons book that they will carry with them with a red flags and reporting options available to them. we are doing the same for first responders, emergency medical services and we have been approached by direct care workers to modify seniors for their purposes. i'm pleased to say in march we will be providing a version of senior safety one of the national broker-dealers and their local reps. >> coming from a state that has one of the fastest-growing senior populations in the nation and someone who knows a few of the house legislators don't be surprised if we don't invite you to come and share your story because we think it's a great story that needs to be replicated and we appreciate your leadership. ..

but actually identifying financial exportation and getting that investigation and prosecution to me in the state is one of the key components that we need to be able to address. >> thank you, madam chair. >> did you want to add to that?

>> the social security number we deal mostly with family abuse and family exportation, so we don't deal directly with medicare fraud, fraud, but as a citizen it seems obvious. >> the reason for my question, they're are a variety of areas where we need to find ways to free up resources to make progress. you hear about this and try to get some sense in an area of scarce resources, does resources, does it rise to that top priority or somewhere in between? thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. the topic for the 1st hearing. we are grateful for that and that, and i want to thank the panel, many of us we are in and out with votes

and other activities, but basically are hear. i did not here all the testimony. i her close to have probably but we are hear and especially grateful that you are bringing to the searing and to these issues not only your experience and expertise but in many cases your personal stories and that of your families, and families, and that is both illuminating for us in terms of the stories you can tell the not easy to talk about your own families. i i wanted to focus for a moment. a couple of questions. what is the elements of it or the component parts of it meeting the agencies that are that comprise. you have about six or seven i'm not sure, different

entities that are part of it the 1st question i would ask is that their is an obvious multidisciplinary approach that you bring to it something you have all spoken to one way or another, but the basic question is how difficult was it to pull all of those entities together command is their something about a senior state that is particularly suited to all more appropriate for the state of maine or do you think it would be a model for other states around the country? >> i strongly believe it can be a model. the north american security administrators association to be modified for use by all of nassau's members which include all of the state as well as the canadian provinces and territories. very interested in seeing your states, and we hope it we will be attending a

training a training we we will be doing in northern maine. i think that the time has come and everyone recognizes that it is time to address this issue. it was not difficult to get partners to come to the table to put everyone's resources. i was once asked if this was funded by a grant and the answer is no we all agreed to commit resources. i think that everyone understands and appreciates that we must and are all responsible for addressing elder abuse and financial exportation. >> in pennsylvania we have one of the oldest dates by demographics. depending on what you you look at. so at. so we have not only a substantial challenges because of the numbers for the challenge because we are a state that is fairly decentralized. people tend to identify more at the local community the

sense of where they live and how they focus. we have a whole range of programs that sometimes emanate from or partner with prosecutors like the state attorney general and efforts at the local level as well. i i may be calling upon you for other advice. the head of the state auditor general's office years ago. i work got us into those issues one of the basic

elements, i know from some of the testimony it has to be interdisciplinary, you interdisciplinary, you have to have research, a coordinated strategic approach, but maybe if we can just -- and i know we have about 40 seconds. can you start with what you hope would be the component parts of the strategy. >> i laid them out in my report as well well, but i think having specialized dedicated law enforcement prosecutors and victim advocates is absolutely crucial. in my state we have legislation pending that creates authority for information sharing between the different agencies that would participate. they are happening all over the country. if we can create that ability we will encourage growth that i wanted to.out how important this is as far as the scale and other financial exportation.

your question about how we deal with this is a system is crucial because this problem will only get worse and we we will be looking at a real crisis soon. >> thank you. >> i completely agree a multidisciplinary approach is ideal. i also think that a strong well-trained adult protective services system is the necessary but not sufficient response to this problem. it is a ps that if the reports by and large. it is a ps that goes out to the victim homes aps that is totally victim centered to see what it is that the victim needs. many reports of elder abuse are not criminal or they will never rise to that level. level. it may be an inadequate, developmentally disabled.

it can look like financial exportation or their are problems as a result. i think then absolutely aps should operate at a multidisciplinary field where it has law enforcement legal advice but i do think that the basic premise is that we have a system in every community or a well-trained social worker can go out and see what that victim needs, what kind of abuses occurring to them and how that can be resolved. >> if you don't mind submitting that in writing it would be great. >> madam chairman may i take a.of personal privilege to congratulate you to congratulate center mccaskill and to tell you that the participation and the interest of the members is quite significant. thank you for your.

>> senator nelson, i was about to acknowledge you because we had such a great partnership when you were chair of this committee and i was thrilled that you decided to stay on the committee and continue to share your insights and expertise with us. so thank you for that. senator joe brand. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. this is an amazing agenda. thank you both for your lead. i will continue the line of questioning about law enforcement later married.

millions of seniors fall victims to the same kind of sermons together -- circumstances. and with the grandmother's case the majority of seniors are victimized by family members, most often an adult child and they're grandmother's her grandmother's case was within the jurisdiction of the district attorney's office was led by a well-known expert can you share for us how the structure of the older elder abuse unit and the advocate helped you and your family? >> what happened is after we went through the ordeal of guardianship where we did not no if we were going to go to court we basically had about three months. at that very moment it was

as i mentioned before the time when the slowly than what was -- i really have to appreciate how respectful her office was to those who could have walked away from my grandmother, caregivers who could have walked away and gotten a better job who stood out and staff and other friends in particular so many people in other completely different circumstances actually were victimized by the system. the district attorney's office, it was so considerate of where we had been and what the ordeal as we began an investigation was begun that fall. >> so how would having a dedicated elder abuse unit

be able to help the da office law enforcement catch predators, particularly recidivists who are targeting seniors methodically. do you have additional testimony you would like to give in terms of why having a specific structure might be useful? >> i will tell you from my own experience their were no elder abuse cases. part of my job was to go out and do training. created a a multidisciplinary response. the cases started falling and. when you have those dedicated positions while enforcement will get the training they need and won't bother doing investigations. without that they won't

bother because these cases are complicated and require forensic accounting, capacity evaluations that we have talked about and are complex. plus we have prosecutors who are complex they will never actually defiled. >> one funding stream is to the violence against women's act. what recommendations to any of you have for this panel about how on the federal level we could help you reconstruct that kind of training prosecutors office by prosecutors office that would make this more probable. >> i think expanding the grant would be a huge step forward. i think creating more nationally sponsored training for prosecutors would be very important and think we need to have some kind of resource center so the prosecutors and detectives can turn to a group with experienced people involved to no how to

advise them on cases and can give them the information they need. all of the development of infrastructure we will make a huge difference for us. we need victim advocates who are trained in these areas and can help with these victims, so victims so the combination would take as much further than we are now >> other panelists, any thoughts on ways that we can help you do your job better? 's we could use a much stronger resource center so that we could provide training. with a go out and make decisions about vulnerable lives with no training there is an aps data system

underway which we will tell all of us enormously more than we no not just about aps but elder abuse in general's. that needs to be fully developed and implemented across the country. we need the training research as page mentioned a lot more research, what works, what doesn't work it's an encouraging and supporting multidisciplinary teams. >> it has been helpful. >> thank you, senator. we want to acknowledge senator scott and donnelly were hear earlier. both of them were interested in the issue and were appreciated senator scott.

>> and thank you for joining the committee. that's where beer. great to be with you. this has been important testimony. a lot a lot of your testimony is focused on multidisciplinary approach and may end up pulling together the work holders. it's sometimes a fragmented system the gal report in 2012 indicated that the seven federal agencies the

consumer bureau protections office, federal trade commission, department of justice a recommendation if they could work together in a more coordinated way so that they are not duplicated but now leaving gaps. 's quarterly all of those major agencies come together. i suspect some of them had never thought about elder abuse before having to come to those meetings i know my organization has worked closely with the social security

administration exploiting victims to work more effectively with aps a pilot project underway. i think that is being replicated across the board where their is much more activity and awareness of this issue. >> other thoughts? >> one thing i would say is that security regulators certainly work well together and work well with the securities and exchange commission. my role as cochair of the main counsel for elder abuse provision -- prevention, one initiative we are undertaking is we formed a working group to work at multijurisdictional stance. we have asked its the us attorney's office and other federal agencies to come to the table to see if we can think about a program where the state can identify these problems and serve as a feeder for the federal agencies to try to develop

that critical mass to try to find a way. can we be the eyes and ears? it's in its early stages. those type of initiatives perhaps will help. >> i'm sorry. were you going to? >> i was going to briefly say, the department of justice's building and elder abuse website that has the potential to help and reach a lot of different people. also doing a lot of excellent work, a lot of different agencies that are doing this work. my perception is they are all severely underfunded and have one or two people working on these elder abuse issues. increased funding is the refrain. >> their are members in the budget community. i appreciate that comment. that's a pretty sobering statistic.

one one of the things we ought to be thinking about is how to increase the amount of reporting. often reporting. often people who are subject to some kind of financial abuse, there was a professional in they're life who was aware it was going on, on sometimes the professional would reported in help and sometimes they would not. do you have suggestions about ways in which we could increase the amount of reporting, especially by professionals who work with senior citizens? >> one thing that i wanted to let you know about was a program in missouri right now. created a unit of elderly, is is called the department of elderly client initiatives. a a number of different professionals who are dedicated to advising all of they're employees on concerning cases of elder financial exportation. those kinds of models are

absolutely essential. we also get a lot of our referrals in our state's the mandatory reporting laws require elder financial exportation be reported only to aps. because they do not have adequate tools they end up missing out on a lot of cases and may decide the person is choosing to be exploited. also focusing on research and training for aps and law enforcement with regard to this capacity issue. >> thank you very much. >> thanks to you and senator mccaskill for having a searing and beginning on

such a profoundly important note. i saw this problem when i was a state attorney general in connecticut, sought to stop it and well here continued to work on cases of constituents who were affected. one very notably robert montana a marine world war ii veteran who was brutally abused financially by his children in a sense not unlike your situation and as a result of his experience i sponsored in the hundred and 12 congress the robert mann, exportation protection for elder of contact which increases the federal penalties for fraud as well

as exportation, federal penalties because i believe it is federal jurisdiction improved ability for the government to collect statistical data because i agree with many of you provided resources for the federal government to give to the state for training technical assistance, pilot assistance, pilot grant programs in developing best practices the kind of support a number of our colleagues have referred to. helping to reintroduces soon. the elephant in the room, underreported. it causes so many of these cases to be unreported,

feelings of embarrassment and excuses and sometimes love for relatives children or others who are actually exploiting. there is a combination of feelings that result in this underreporting and i want to thank you for including in your citation some of the numbers. elder abuse is vastly underreported. only one and 23.5 cases is reported to any agency for financial abuse. financial abuse is one in 44 one in 44 financial abuse cases is reported which makes it very difficult, if not impossible for the best prosecutors in the world and i have been a prosecutor, not one of the

best in the world, to take this kind of action. for neglect it is one in 57. 57. so i am looking at some of the state laws that apply to reporting, reporting, and looking at who the mandated reporters are more rarely are they financial institutions under state law which is the primary basis for requiring reporting. i am wondering whether you would endorse more states adopting laws that require reporting. certain people are mandated reporters, for example, for child abuse schools and others for financial abuse the same concept should financial institutions, and you have mentioned accountants who knew about it or maybe sen. senator -- i think senator kane actually did quite appropriately, should they be required to report? they cannot say, you no i

am worried about my client, i don't want to lose my client, it is a family matter, much of this is an in schools for children or in other situations, doctors , mandated reporters were abuse, elder abuse shouldn't this be a requirement for financial institutions? some states do, but it is only a minority. >> i would be delighted if that were made law. washington law. washington state a few years ago passed a permissive reporting statute which simply gives financial institutions protection if they do reporting good faith and has helped tremendously. but i think it would be obviously very powerful message to send to make it a mandated situation. also if we do that we must include training in that reporting law. we have we have a lot of mandatory reporters in washington of elder abuse and many of them don't even

know that they are mandated to report because their is no training. as long as we conclude that training component i think i think it would be a wonderful idea. >> i agree and would just add part of the reporting should be providing client records. a lot of cases go unsubstantiated. >> thank you. well, i will say just by way of full disclosure, disclosure, my own state of connecticut does not have this requirement. the chairwoman's state of maine does not have it. my colleague has no mandate. and the same is true of senator mccaskill. we have four states were this kind of requirement is not at attributable.

but there is a lot of potential here for making a difference by mandating not just permissibly hitting in the cover in this sense, the relief from liability but making it they're burden, legal burden. thank you. >> thank you very much. i want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. you can see by the turnout we have of senators on both sides of the aisle who came by that their is tremendous concern about elder abuse and ms. quinn your written testimony had some statistics which i want to close the hearing with because they are truly extraordinary and show us that we have just begun to scratch the surface of the scope of this problem.

in your testimony their was a chart that indicates that they're are approximately 5 million victims of the elder abuse annually. in contrast their are 1.25 million victims of child abuse and 2.3 million domestic violence victims and we a poor crime, whether it is toward a child in particular or domestic abuse but their is much greater awareness of child abuse and domestic violence. yet the incidence of elder abuse is far higher and perhaps one of the benefits of this hearing is it has

put a spotlight on an issue that people are not talking enough about, are not enough aware of and where state, private agencies federal efforts really need to be wrapped up particularly since we know in our country that the population that is 85 and older is the fastest-growing part of our population. it is just exploding. this problem is only going to get worse. so i too am interested and will ask for your recommendations on what we can do with the federal level whether it is the reauthorization of the elder justice abuse act or the older americans act which we are about to do and have reported it just last week or whether it is modifying

the act to make sure that financial institutions report legitimate concerns to adult protective services for state security administrators without fear that they are going to be violating privacy laws. whatever your recommendations we would welcome them and i appreciate your coming forward and talking about personal experiences as well as your professional experiences. i think this was an excellent 1st hearing as is shown by the great participation that we have. the committee members will all have until friday february 13. i think we should have chosen a different day but it is friday the 13th to

submit questions for the record. i want to yield to my ranking member for any closing comments that she might have. >> i think they're are things that we can do from the bully pulpit of our audiences that can help make a difference. i particularly want to recognize you. i cannot imagine the emotional problem and roller coaster that you must've been on. i think all of us who tried to put ourselves in your position which was exacerbated by the profile of your grandmother and what she represented to a much larger committee than your family and knowing that you were going to become the victim of. news interests about this very impressive and delete woman in new york. and so i

particularly want to thank you and the prosecutors doggedness because i love prosecutors who are dogged. >> you love all prosecutors. [laughter] >> i love all, especially ones that are dogged. >> my thanks to all our witnesses. i want to thank each of you for the important role you have played in increasing our understanding of this truly devastating problem. that concludes our hearing. thank you. >> on the's on the next washington journal representative donna edwards of maryland discusses how pres. obama's 2016 budget affects the federal workforce. then congressman john fleming of louisiana is here to talk about his in the newly formed freedom caucus, a group designed to challenge the republican study community. washington journal is live every morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.

join the conversation with your calls and on facebook and twitter with your comments.

>> you can find a complete television schedule at c-span.org. let us know what you think about the programs you are watching. colonists e-mail us, or send us a tweet. join the conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> advocates for cuban political prisoners testified about that country's human rights record at a house hearing today. the witnesses were critical of attempts to reestablish diplomatic relations with cuba. new jersey republican chris smith chairs the foreign affairs subcommittee on global human rights. this is two hours and 40 minutes. [inaudible conversations]

>> good morning and welcome to this important and timely hearing on cuba. we cuba. we are hear to examine the state of human rights given obama's sea change in policy toward cuba announced last year. we are hear to examine whether the obama administration used the considerable leverage it yields to seek to better the condition of the cuban people or whether, as i fear as an opportunity that was squandered in its haste to achieve a diplomatic breakthrough and legacy for the president. this hearing is not only about the castro regime accountability but also the obama administration accountability with congress congress exercising its role with both oversight and as a bully pulpit to remind the world cuba remains a communist dictatorship which continues to arrest political dissidents and i

would underscore an estimated 170 political dissidents in the last month alone and one whose declared would not change even in response to the obama administration concessions. this regime this regime continues to harbor fugitives from justice such as joanne says mark. appear before the full community on foreign affairs. i asked her what the response of the cuban government was when she raise the issue of the return to justice. she replied the the cuban government stated it was not interested in discussing her return.

the president of the state troopers return organization not already demanded an accomplished. we would have another hearing to look. unfortunately we do have. it is a tremendous honor to

have three extraordinarily brave and qualified witnesses to the brutality of the cuban dictatorship. three human rights activists who have great personal cost of themselves and their families we will hear about the deplorable state of human rights in cuba. and it could not be more clear i would note parenthetically i met with someone who spent almost two decades in the cuban system and will never forget when i went and read his book. he led a delegation to the united nations commission. we went time and time again to that commission asking them to look at the deplorable state of human rights in cuba.

he was able to get the un to look at, pass a resolution condemning the deplorable situation and cuba and to deploy a employ a team to go to the prison and investigate these terrible abuses of human rights. their promises made by fidel castro. there would be no retaliation whatsoever the people in prisons and their families were retaliated against. of course i will meet with them now the now if we are

able to meet. we can get that visa. i i want to go meet with the dissidents. they were tortured by that communist dictatorship. went to prisons all over the world. we went into a blazing prison number two look like concentration camps of victims. mr. wolf and i could not continue -- i can get into those. i will be asking the

government and have already asked our government to help facilitate to go to the prisons and even on the icrc yesterday. i asked sec. jacobson much as been made that they might be able to get into the country. that is unacceptable. their have to be absolutely no retaliation for those who speak out. i would have to.out after testifying here today and public -- and i think c-span especially in the journalists for taking this story and making journalists aware of what is happening in cuba right now as we meet they we will be returning to cuba and this committee command i know the entire congress will be watching to ensure that there safety and well-being is not further jeopardized, but the courage to come forward to a congressional hearing friends on the senate side received compelling

testimony as well and to bear witness to an ugly truth of torture i would ask ask everyone to go back and reread against all hope the famous book where he talked about tortures that i don't even want to mention in public because they are so despicable putting dissidents in vats of excrement so bad that it went into the ears and nose and they got infections. told me that when he and his wife, when they finally got to the united states and got asylum he cannot even change his children's diapers because the smell of excrement brought back instantaneously like ptsd remembrances of that kind of degrading and cruelty imposed upon them. the castro brothers castro brothers and many in this regime ought to be at the hague for crimes against

humanity. that is how bad it is. the owners -- these are among the worst abusers of human rights and the entire world. i want to welcome our brave and courageous witnesses. i want to thank iliana has been such a leader for so long in raising the truth of what is going on in the school lot island. i have much more to say, but i will put the rest of it on record. record. i want to thank our witnesses and look forward to hearing your testimony. i yields to my good friend and colleague. >> mr. chairman. >> mr. chairman, i just want to take a brief moment before we turn to the brief topic of human rights in cuba to respond to a statement from the subcommittee's hearing that had troubling

interpretations. while discussing your position on marriage equality you make comments and engaged in a line of questioning that some understood that suggesting as lesbian gay, bisexual, and transgender people do not have human rights. after exchanging letters with you i think it is important to note that while we have different opinions on marriage equality, we both agree that unequivocally they have the same rights as all other people to live lives free from violence and persecution. in your letter and public statement you said that you unequivocally oppose acts of violence against anyone and believe human rights apply to all and all individuals, including individuals, including lg bt person should be treated with respect and compassion. i want to thank you for the opportunity to clear up the confusion over your statement and reaffirm our shared passion for protecting the human rights of all people. lg bt rights are human rights and they are entitled to live lives free from

violence, intimidation, discrimination, and harm. >> thank you. we have a fundamental difference. i don't support, and you do. i respect i respect your views. i am for universally recognized human rights for all. i am glad we are able to work together. okay. why don't you go. >> okay. thank you mr. chair, and i appreciate the clarification of that because i know with your long record on human rights that you would never be okay with the egregious human rights violations that are taking place around the world in the lg bt community and there is a fundamental difference between marriage

which many people have a difference around but i know they're their is no difference around lg bt rights and the violence and opposing the violence. so thank you for that. today's hearing on human rights in cuba in the context of president obama's recent announcement i said yesterday in our foreign affairs committee that sometimes in talking about cuba it is difficult because my colleagues two of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle right now in this hearing have family history and personal situations that make it very difficult if one does have a different opinion. i want to respect and acknowledge what my colleagues have been through and what they're families have been through and with no disrespect or disregard for those histories want to take a few minutes and propose a different viewpoint.

you know the president's policy of opening up relations with cuba i actually think it is a good thing, especially especially for people who are concerned about human rights. during the five decades that we have not had relations with the cuban government and the cuban people the cuban economy did experience multiple economic shocks which produced hardships for the people but none of it produce the kind of popular uprisings that might have led to a change in government. i think i think that the embargo private diplomatic and economic engagement that is many times the ways in which societies become more open and accountable and democratic and trade and cultural exchange becomes mutually beneficial. the embargo has impeded us relations they view the

embargo itself as a human rights violation. as a us citizen i consider it my human rights to be able to travel to any nation on earth and have resented the fact that it has been difficult. americans can go to cuba but it is difficult to go they're. i might believe that -- i don't i don't believe we have that restriction against any other nation in the world including iran saudi arabia. such travel restrictions as well as those of trade also violate the freedom of us citizens in recent polling by cbs, abc news. and the "washington post" revealed a majority of americans are supportive of moving away disengagement and toward reestablishing

ties with cuba. i think engagement would be good for the cuban people as people to people exchanges and travel would increase cultural engagement assistant family reunification and this opening no space we will provide increased access to cuba for nongovernmental access focused on government and human rights. the cuban civil society groups concerned with improved standards of economic and personal freedom. mr. chair you mentioned visiting prisons in cuba. when i did go, i visited alan gross in prison. and i think that it was important during the time that mr. gross was incarcerated that a number of members of congress went over and visited him and pushed for his release. that was a contributing factor. again,.

again, i feel that you really cannot change people and governments whom you refuse to engage with. so increased engagement seems like it would be a contributing factor to improving the human rights situation on the island, and island, and i look forward to the testimony from our witnesses. >> thank you. i would like to yields yield to the chairwoman emeritus of the full community on human affairs. >> thank you very much. i am glad mr. gross is home. if by visiting mr. gross you believe you have been to a cuban jail maybe these dissidents could tell you what a cuban jail is really like. we are thankful he is home. we could ask someone like mr. guzmán in the audience today he served 22 years in castro's present. mr. smith i would like to ask unanimous consent to

submit into the record from the international committee from former cuban prisoners documenting a a list of the many cuban two are still languishing in castro's gulags and thank you to mr. guzmán for pointing that out. >> i want to thank you so very much for convening this important hearing unyielding and passionate commitment to human rights freedom not just for the oppressed people of cuba but for all people everywhere who suffer under oppressive regimes and continue to seek the most basic and fundamental rights for many people that they take for granted. everywhere there is an oppressed person, a political prisoner, their you will find mr. smith. we thank you for that.

we look at those faces. that's the freak you tomorrow. these are brave boat -- pro-democracy activists who has seen firsthand the brutality of the regime by the constant arrest and beatings that they have had to endure, the isolation that they had to endure. we do not have to prepare. she would be marching with her sisters and this -- 13 detentions just last sunday.

represent the future rarely are they invited to meet with visiting dignitaries. rarely do they invite dissidents to disagree. these are the people who have to suffer the consequences of the administration decision. easy for easy for the president to change this policy. the regime is reenergized by president obama's policies

by his injections of cash. cash. the presidents december 17 announcement serves to embolden the regime by implying that it can continue the impressive machinery with impunity. roel castro said we we will not change and look the underway. it undercuts and demoralizes the braves freedom fighters who rightfully believe that the us has turned its back on them. don't confuse the us people with the administration just like we don't confuse the castro regime with the people of cuba. and for what are these negotiations? some more americans can travel to cuba and see what the regime wants them to see? while the regime fills its coffers. who loves the hotels? the castro regime. who runs the hotels? cuban military.

sentenced to a year a year in prison just last week a young rapper. his charge was dangerousness which could lead to a crime the pre-card of that movie. they predict you we will commit a crime and arrest you before you commit it. this regime for bids reform and will do anything to maintain its grip on power. the apparatus for bids cubans from listening to independent, private independent, private, or foreign broadcasts and sensors the signals of its own allies televised propaganda. it is important we understand the kind of murderous regime we are dealing with and that president obama wants to normalize relations with. on november 4, 1999 the house of international relations convened the cuban

program, torture of american prisoners by cuban agents we we heard testimony from american pows, prisoners of war who were tortured at a prison camp in north vietnam known as the zoo during august 67 to august 68. nineteen 19 of those courageous servicemen were psychologically tortured and beaten by cuban agents working under orders from hanoi. while the state department led the negotiations last month in the vana's very own country reports on human rights practices for 2013 states this the following additional abuses continued, continued, harsh prison conditions, arbitrary arrest, selective prosecution in a denial of free trial. they are still negotiating with castro. interfering with privacy

engaging in pervasive monitoring. the government did not respect freedom us beach and maintained a monopoly on media outlets, circumscribed academic freedom and maintained maintain significant restrictions on the ability of religious groups to meet and work shift. the government refused to recognize human rights group they can tell you about that. the government government continued to prevent workers from forming independent unions. where are these voices who are so much for independent unions in the united states? not for you, you are not good enough. i'm sorry. no union for you. official acts committed at the direction of the government. our own state department says this. impunity for the perpetrators remain widespread.

i could continue. this administration must defend democracy. we cannot call for democratic reform and values throughout the world if we abandon them 90 miles from our shores. thank you for this time. welcome to our panelists. >> thank you for that extraordinarily powerful statement in your support not only of the cuban people but people who are dealing with tyranny all over the world. ..