>> host: april ryan i don't think anyone on any american reporter has covered the white house as long as you have niu have taken clinton and bush 43 and obama years been written about them through the prism of something that is important to your listeners on american urban radio networks a nice issue of race relations in the united states. i have to ask you when you first arrived to the white house in 1997 committees you imagine you would ever be there to cover the first african-american president? >> guest: never. never. just say that i'm getting

chills. in my home, we had pictures of john kennedy. >> host: this is growing up? >> guest: growing up yes. we had african-american unsuccessful attempts to become president. i hear for many people in this town who may not want to say that they said barack obama had a special kind of juice. he must have because for so many years he thought a white woman would get in a position first before black man and be able to say it's just amazing. >> time is everything in life. you first met him when he was a senator. you were covering the white house. >> guest: during the bush years there was a thing called takeout. all the reporters gather outside the meetings with the president or principal and they come outside of the west wing door at the front entrance of the west

wing and they stand with the persons meeting the president and at this time it happened to be the congressional black caucus that adjusted change the newest member, senator barack obama from chicago. everyone was looking for senator obama and i couldn't see him. i was so excited about trying to get an interview with him. at that time was interesting because i kept remembering where is he, what is his name? at this time, he was new. he was barack obama, but i think i transposed his name. i don't even remember what i called in. he said first of all get my name right. i was so excited because this is not about me personally. these are reporters trying to get to him before anyone out. that is the thing in this business. you want to be the first of the most.

i was so excited to get to this new rockstar of the hill that i couldn't get his name right. it was a mess. >> you right in the book that he was not particularly popular within the rational. all the rest of them are house members. what is it that they kind of resent this newcomer? >> guest: they do resent this newcomer. he is someone who tried unsuccessfully. they are or are you loyal another in that group. because they are small group, they are very loyal to one another. so that was one strike against him. the second strike was he was a senator. he was a black senator something that rarely happens in this country. he also was on a different gradual in the house. the senate and the house are different rituals. so when the congressional black caucus, which is mostly house members would meet, he would

kind of asked if he could be placed in the front part of the meeting to deliver his statements about what's going on in the senate. many times they ignored him and he was left to leave without presenting anything. there was a lot of hard things they are. >> do you think talking about your time covering the white house, can you talk a little bit about how you lean in the book how you were treated not only as an african-american for is a black reporter, but there was not a lot of women in the press corps. let's start with the first year when it's bill clinton's first term and you arrive at the white house to cover their city in the briefing room every single day. >> it was rough because i replace a gentleman who was iconic fair.

he was actually the first african-american to become the president of the white house press club, her shoes were so hard to sell and when i came to the white house, many people resented the fact that it wasn't bob and more. i cannot and not. also i think coming in and really pressing on urban african-american issues, which really wasn't that not much as much as i had. i wasn't really on the agenda on a daily basis. many people were wondering issued militant clerics what is she? who is she? who wish he? we haven't seen her around washington who choose a strange kid here that a little bit and i got a lot of pushback from within the press corps. people knew i was a newbie, not

be in washington, part of the press corps coming out of baltimore, really. there was a lot of pushback. how is she giving these interviews with resident clinton? i got a lot of pushback. >> let's break it into three categories. you write not only about your interactions with other reporters in your interactions with presidents, but of course press secretaries, too. talk about a couple of those. start under the bush administration. tony snow was the new press secretary. what happened with this comment? >> guest: my gosh, the first day he came into the press briefing, so many people were in that room. i couldn't even get in my feed. typically when you are in the white house in the briefing area, your downstairs and then you have your designated the end

you feel comfortable that i can wait until the last minute to come in and get messy. to my surprise, when i came upstairs, every seat was taken. it was standing room all night. so i was on the right side of the briefing room against the wall. there is a question posed to him by abc martha radley. he was explaining what was going on and then he said i'm not going to hold or touch that. i kind of shrinks because that is something -- that is something -- that phrase was very sensitive. it is racially insensitive. >> it is from an old brer rabbit story. >> yes. and i actually have that book. just to remember that this is what used to be but should not be. i couldn't believe it. when you think about that tar

the rabbit put together so the fox wouldn't find the rabbit. i said okay. so then unfortunately, there was a reporter standing in anatomy returned to me and told me shut up you. i couldn't believe it. so after the press briefing i marched up inside you realize what you did? and he apologized. from that moment on we struck up a good relationship. he really apologized for his insensitivity. he didn't realize how insensitive was and what it would spur. to the credit of the white house correspondent situation, i talked to mark smith who was president at the time and he addressed the issue and i got an apology. people really do wonders to him. >> from the reporter did that. people don't understand how much, whatever happens at that podium and reverberate in that

room or outside. there's so many ripples that go beyond that room. it really affected me that day. >> you and i covered the white house for many years. i was at abc and the press briefings were off-camera until the time you came. mike mccurry was the second term clinton press secretary and agreed to do it on camera something you are now regretting and i tend to agree with mike that the press briefings are supposed to be the raw ingredients of his. that you had a dustup -- dustup is probably not the right word which struck me because i was therefore it. not because you're an african-american reporter, but maybe because you are a woman. and that was with robert gibbs. >> yes. i think he might be right about the woman issue, the gender. also because specialty media.

>> tell us what happened. >> it comes with this. the issue is i am not a part of the mainstream. i am a specialty that focuses on urban and minority america. so how dare she. that's the way i felt at this time. how dare she asked these questions? though they were relevant questions. there were questions over here and from sources and i'd been outside the white house. it was not a personality issue. it was a real issue. unfortunately the camera saw was the last day. what people were watching was the last day. they didn't see the two days, the two days that crescendoed into that moment. >> host: this is after a couple apparently crashed the first obama state dinner in the white house social secretary who was an african-american woman from chicago, a friend of

theirs was taking heat for dropping the ball on this. u.s. robert gibbs specifically about her role. what was it he said to you? >> he said something to the effect i kept asking us on a roll with questions to the extent of calm down. so a grown woman who as children felt the child in the nothing wrong but this time but to equate me to a child. it was disrespect all. he was in paris at the time. for people to believe there's not retaliation when you ask the white house certain questions, there is retaliation and the retaliation was seen on television. and then, afterwards, i was fuming. i sat in my seat. once that was over, i couldn't believe it or not that time i was in the fourth row on the mc.

i couldn't believe what happened. i just sat there. next thing i see the doors to the lower press office open and it was bill burton. robert gibbs, deputy press secretary. he said kinnear. i said no. he was shocked. unfortunately i'm kind of rebellious as you know. i said okay, i'm coming. i just couldn't live with it. unlike what did i do wrong? in my mind i asked a legitimate question. what happened was in my mind and robert gibbs and i have come to an understanding and we have a decent relationship now. to my understanding there was loyalty there. the obama administration was new and they supported one another. desiree rogers and her family really supported this president and they were very loyal to this woman. there was a faux pas that caused a security breach at the white

house. >> host: did you go up and see robert gibbs at that point? >> guest: i did. it was bad. there were other people in the room and i remember gibbs telling me i have the first lady and apology and i have desiree rogers and apology. if i did anything to offend the first lady i apologize. people are telling me in e-mails and text messages and this is in the lead up to this. why does robert gibbs disrespect to? you tell them to e-mail me. i will talk to them. i said to myself, what did i do to deserve this craziness? sometimes it is rough and tumble there. when you are someone they perceive by yourself, that i don't have the backing of the larger networks here do understand? i don't have the backing of the specialty media they are the focus on the same issues to have

my back to follow up on questions. so i felt like i was alone but i wasn't alone. to my surprise that many of my close friends and fellow correspondents were really supportive of me to the fact is saying that should not have been that way. it was a serious line of question and the sources that told me because of that there is change at the white house. they went back to the old procedure of how to allow people to come in to the white house for event. they you have to remember, this was about security at the historic residency. first african-americans. it's not even about him being african-american but any precedent for this kind of thing to happen. so that is what it was about to me. >> host: talk about the specialty media because i think a lot of americans may not understand of course they are the networks and the wire services get those front row seat. the major newspapers all have

seat. but you really do cover the white house and write about it in this book from a very particular vantage point which is important to those who listen to you. >> guest: specialty media is media that not necessarily -- we don't necessarily focus on the traditional. we are the group that we don't sit in the front row. specialty media commute tv radio, newspapers, but we are not abc cbs cnn. we are the american urban radio networks. we are the bbt. we are the telemundo. we are also lgb teen newspapers. we are christian broadcasting, all things that are not necessarily part of the illustrious. >> but you do have a seat. >> smacked up in the middle. i worked hard.

i used to be in the sixth row when i first started i moved out. we moved up to the third row. i do have a seat and i think that it's because i'm there every day and i ask questions and i ask pertinent questions and we have an audience that they want to get a message to. postcode is sometimes a president or white house or communications operations take advantage of your specialty media by saying we want to get this race story out there the serbian story out there and may seek you out? >> guest: zero yes. >> host: how does that work? >> guest: recently president obama did a great interview with et. it reverberated more with pet data cnn or abc. so what they want to put out information, they will sometimes go to the go to person. i let them use me and i use them

at the same time. ted strickland, the washington bureau chief said sometimes you got to use what you have to your manager that was to my advantage. so the fact i am working for a minority company that focuses on urban and african-american issues. i also question other issues as well, mainstream issues. >> host: how did she do it the second group? we talked about press secretaries. i for a year sat right down the road from you at abc. you write about asking a question to your first presidential news conference and use that after you asked the question you were treated like media slime. what happened? >> this is a rough-and-tumble business and we are happy for one another, but it's like why not me? and that is what -- they are asking why they didn't get it.

>> guest: i've heard recently the past couple of times i've gotten a question from the president at press conferences the last one at the end of the year and the one around the summertime how do she get that? why, you could questions all the time. i very seldom get to ask questions in press conferences as much as others. but you know, we are group. we are a high% of group and we all want to have that moment where we get that question. we want that question. how did she get it? some about for some of the problem but also i was new. i was brand spanking new and i worked hard. >> host: had issued a question being brand-new? >> guest: well, at the time when i first came to the white house it was more open than it is now and you were there when it was much more open. close to open in what sense? >> guest: you could walk more. he would run into the president

more. i was literally coming in from outside and i had my coat on and i walked into lower-priced and at that time there was a door. this was the staff area. i don't think there was a door at the time they you could see people walking back and forth. i just happen to be standing there and asked if i could go. the press secretary's office up office, up a short hallway just outside the oval office. >> guest: just outside the oval office. so is headed to upper press to see the press secretary who happen to be at the time my curry. they told me you got to go back. i didn't really understand and saw the sun, walking down the hall with a soft pretzel was president bill clinton. he didn't know who i was at the

time. i guess he thought it was a staffer or something. he stopped in the hallway. i'm standing there looking at him at the bottom of the stack. and i introduced myself. i got myself together and introduced myself. i said please call on me sir. he said okay, okay. so there was a press conference. but the next one he did and i said maybe it did just what say hello to him. i told mike mccurry thank you. postcode scenting out? >> guest: i said thank you the president wrote me back. he wrote a note back on white house letterhead and that's all she wrote. postcode that is a good one. writing a note to the president for getting a question in and getting a letter back. postcode how -- at news

conferences, you talk about the first question when you were considered -- you considered yourself media slime. was it the content of your question? were reporters hostile to you? >> guest: i don't think it was the content of the question. i think it's a friendly adversarial relationship. the american public don't like us to some extent than others do. so when we get classified negative, but it might've been for others they didn't like the question. but it was not for them to say because once again, we are there focusing on one thing and you may be focusing on another. that is having a group of people in that room. they asked different questions. versus paid on the same subject. >> guest: briefings and press conferences.

there's more going on in the world than one thing. >> host: let me ask you about wish 43, george w. bush news conference when he had a foreign visitor and foreign visitor and you were seated not what the white house press club? where we've ceded? >> guest: i was seated with the african delegation and i found that very interesting. >> host: why? >> guest: it was on the part -- of the white house. i was told after the fact that i should have been grateful because i was in a sea to possibly be called on. postcode but you were sitting with other black reporters? >> guest: african reporters. i have no problem with that. but i am a white house correspondent. i'm an american journalist. it was so odd that even my colleagues on the other side of the road said what going on? i said i was placed here. even the president, president bush even noticed.

during a news conference he says why are you sitting over there? i tried to get a question and i said i was placed here. he at least acknowledged three times during the press conference. he even tried to put me out so the president -- the african president would at least call me. but it was a faux pas. even the chief of staff at the time after that said it was bad. it was a bad move. >> host: do you think presidents regarded you differently than other reporters because you are black because he represented a specific specialty media because you were a woman? did it in some ways work to your advantage? >> guest: yes it did work to my advantage, but also my disadvantage because president clinton even told me this. he said sometimes i want to call it neo-and i get in trouble because they don't know what to expect. other people know the news of the day in the current events.

they didn't know what to expect from me. he sometimes didn't have an answer for me. to many times i would get called on. president clinton told me that. that is kind of going down the line. so this was told to me during his time in office. so the work to my advantage when they wanted to talk to the community, the black community are urban community but it was a disadvantage because they didn't call on me for much because they didn't know where i was coming from. so it's an interesting dynamic. >> host: in your book, you write extensively to put today's president in an historical perspective of where race relations have common in the united states. you may clear that there is still a ways to go. salamat december 9th 264, before either of us were covering the white house.

the civil rights act has become law and now the focus is turning to the voting rights act and martin at the king junior said the white house, urging president lyndon johnson to move on it. now, the films that is al qaeda and criticized by some for putting munging johnson in a very bad light. you write about your conversation with the other person who was in the room at that moment. tell us about that. >> in "the presidency in black and white: my up-close view of three presidents and race in america" i have an interview on the record in the room with dr. king who talk to lbj. andrew young was not only a prominent figure in the civil rights community, but a former congressman from georgia and former u.n. ambassador and someone who worked for -- at that point was a relatively low-level white house staffer.

>> is a very credible person. more than credible. he was in the room. this is what i don't understand. what i don't understand about the back-and-forth of lbj and salamat. in this book, i'll be jay did say that he didn't have the power to push it forward the voting rights act in 1864. after they successfully got the civil rights act. reverend jesse jackson said this is something very interesting. he said people like dr. king as a martyr, not a marcher. so strategically, the civil rights had to figure out how to give him the power. so they had to work strategically to work to get the

power of the president, to go down to alabama and he talked about in the book specifically in this book "the presidency in black and white," three african-americans could not meet on the street together. it was against the laws they are. for three people to be in the street together. >> that could be considered leading to a protest. >> guest: said they had to find a way to have a meeting begin a process where the marchers. they worked through it and how to strategically figure out how to present situations so i'll be jay could have the power to push through the voting rights act. this is actually someone in the room with dr. martin luther king also reverend jesse jackson was one of his lieutenants. in the book on the record talking about this. >> host: there are audio recordings of that former secretary joseph alfano wrote

about that. i believe using the transcripts or recordings held at the miller center for the study of the presidency at the university of virginia. so they should be a pretty well documented fact. are you surprised at the kind of reaction the movie has brought? is that progress to finally have a movie that has turned out to be a commercial success about the life of dr. martin luther king? >> guest: i think the movie was magnificent. it brought me to tears. i felt like i was in a black church somewhere. it was an amazing movie to see. i knew when i saw the little girl, i knew what was going to have been. i had tears in my eyes, just talking about it. it was very graphic to see them go back and forth on the bridge, to understand that i'm an african-american, if they had not done this you and i wouldn't build a talk today.

i would go to question three american presidents. this book would not eat here. so that movie -- i don't believe it showed everything because it was very graphic there was much more of a hurdle than what we saw. the movie touched me. i commend opera. i commend brad hit. it was a wonderful movie. people who want to preserve history, people died. this was not an easy struggle. people want to believe this is not the way. people died. they knew people were going to get hurt and die. that was some of the impetus. black people and white people died for the right for black people to vote. >> host: the residents of god into the reporting career you've had. condoleezza rice was a friend of one of those little girls. she's from birmingham alabama.

did she work within the bush administration? obviously national security adviser or precarious state. this she also feel she had aires portfolio? >> guest: secretary rice zenda spoke on the record and i think her for her truth. she said that she was better and brought to the table what needed to be brought to the table on race. when it was time to anniversary events, we must have this anniversary. it was not for this event i would not have been able to sit at the restaurant, eat at the restaurant. >> host: her father couldn't vote until 1952. until 1964. >> guest: she said if that were not for this. we have to stop and celebrate. she also -- there is another controversial piece.

at the very beginning of the bush years there was president bush had decided to write in an amicus brief. he went to a friend of the court read and he said it was about the university of michigan. he did not want there to be preferences -- preferential treatment in the admission process they are. and so condoleezza rice at the time, national security by as their condoleezza said there needs to be opportunity targets of opportunity are the words used at the time. postcode giving black candidates that extra measure or boost. >> guest: yeah, the problem was someone -- i don't know how it happened, but that she supported president roche and they wanted to make sure that condoleezza rice story was told

properly. before i came to work that morning i heard all of the hoopla and i had to go to the doctor, i don't disappointment. i got a call from the white house press secretary at the time. he said you want to interview condoleezza rice? i said sure. so we'll tonelli talk to she made it clear he or she made it perfectly clear that she's supportive quote unquote targets of opportunity, but some would consider affirmative action. there she was again the train of thought that there should not be preferences there should not be preferences in admission to the university. >> host: specialty media reporter like you get that message to the audience that cares the most. >> guest: not just my audience. and that's the great dean. the audience now reverberate to "the new york times" and cnn and out to abc in our reverberate into the "washington post."

i'm not just specialty media, but not, but now the go but now the go to person that of immediacy off of when there is a black issue black or urban issue or something of that nature. postcode is your really cook a soul food dinner for bill clinton when he was president? >> guest: i didn't cook it. and i can't did. >> host: start from the beginning of the story. because as i recall from your book the timing is late in the bill clinton administration. in fact this is the time when he saying i'm still relevant. and he without polishing the car and walking the dog. you're in washington, still at the white house every day. how did you come about inviting the president to dinner? >> guest: during the clinton years there were a lot of african-american reporters and producers. we sometimes talk amongst

ourselves. we were saying well, so it though hadn't otr. given otr? office record with the president of the united states. so-and-so just got one. did you get when? no, did you get one? this back-and-forth here we were all caucusing fan what is going on here? so we started scratching our heads. we'll tonelli started talking to mike mccurry. so bill douglas and his wife, a wonderful reporter opened up his beautiful home to allow us to have dinner with mike mccurry so we could talk about this. at the time the president want to talk about race as well. he wanted to get more information about our thought because the race initiative he had on the table at that time was kind of floundering. he wanted to kind of get our

thoughts. apparently the president might dust and he wanted to hear what we had to say. so we initially started the process. we had dinner with mike mccurry. he liked us so much he brought his own pepper sauce. we had cornbread collard greens chitlins. it is a real soul food dinner. you know, he really welcome day. in the black community, food brings the together. the friendly dinners after church, the anniversaries. food is a very common -- a common sort of item to perpetuate free-flowing conversation. we had a beautiful time and you saw the black reporters and producers at the white house at the time. he said look, do not talk about race? not only back he did not have

an otr with any of us and that's not aired. yeah, okay. without once mike mccurry left it would never happen. especially everything hating overhead come of the monica lewinsky -- >> host: president clinton by this time has been impeached. >> guest: yes, so this was 1999. actually, we were surprised that we got a call. it's going to happen. so at that time i was one of the main people from "the associated press" who was trying to make this happen. they said there's no way we can get into your house in baltimore because there's bill douglas opening up his beautiful home and we were very thankful for that because we had the best time. president clinton talked so much and enjoyed it so much they had to pull him onto the house

around 11:30. so we talked. if you are around president clinton he will talk. sometimes the monologue. your gross you just listen. to have the united states president sitting here with you for soul food chitlins, i am sitting next to them, watch and put chicken, potato salad, collard greens on 14 kinkead it taking my gosh. i too have the conversations. postcode as a reporter what do you get from not? you better understanding? it's not a story due the next day. >> guest: no it was off the record. u.s. one time at the principles. you want to get in there had to figure out what they're thinking and why. he's out to us so much about things that happen in africa. he talked about a hodgepodge of issues. i got to know them a lot better.

to find out who he was and what he was thinking and why this happened and why this wasn't going to happen was a very interesting time. we got it off the record. postcode the moment in the obama administration that you get to towards the end of the book are the ones that so many americans are acutely aware of the very summit, that trayvon martin would look like president obama son if he had a son. what do you think about the rather explosive moment under his watch? >> guest: first term was right because many african-americans were looking at him as a peer. he even wanted to make people believe change is going to happen as he was running for the office for the first time. he could never reach that level

of expert patient that he set for. so people were looking for a camera consumer hurting. they are looking for hope and change. but understanding that the black man it's different for him. you know it's his first time as president. given the chance. first term it was the everyone issue. the rising tide. postcode and the second news conference. >> guest: capital letters for each letter of the word. second term we have now seen an african american president who happens to be african-american. the first time as the president who happens to be a good american. i now say he's african-american. the reason i say that is because he is open and how he regards

racial issues. and as president, you are president overall america. all of america needs to understand where he comes from on certain issues, particularly when it deals with race issues. personally, i am thankful to hear that because he has brought out an issue that a lot of people were sleeping under the rug for many decades. the issue of police involved shootings were police involved killings. right now you have to marry support for long forstmann and try to read out the problem. postcode should be a fun to ferguson missouri? >> guest: that is a very touchy issue in such a hotbed. what would have been accomplished if he did?

>> host: presidents don't usually go somewhere sensitive unless there's something they can bring away from it. >> guest: the attorney general calm down for a while. ferguson is a small piece of a bigger issue. people were tired. ferguson is a town that was upside down. i call it the american version of apartheid because it's inverted. you have white world black majority. that's the reason i say apartheid because of the version. postcode the police were largely white. >> guest: the power structure is different there too. so, i think eric kerner tenia rise michael brown, trayvon march in israel. if not obama who?

he didn't go. but everything comes to a precedent that everything in between. this is the thing that bothers me. we forget so easily why are you asking him if he's going to go to ferguson? why not? he's the president of the united states. race has come to every president in business. race issues have come to every president. lbj, john f. kennedy, abraham lincoln. all of these presidents have dealt with issues of race. and acted on it. so people have to understand when i get these calls why would you ask about race to this president? e. is the one who can effectuate change. postcode bill clinton did he come close to issuing what some african-americans would consider an apology for slavery?

>> guest: did he come close? he wanted to. postcode there was a speech he gave overcovered him in africa. >> guest: he did not apologize for slavery. there was the back-and-forth fight in the white house. those four. i will never forget it. mike mccurry was telling me -- is that i'm not looking for an apology for slavery, but why not? people were awake this needs to happen. yes it seems to have been. i think bill clinton was the one -- i think he was the only one who really could of data. >> host: why is that? >> guest: he was the way president hu could. the time is right. george w. bush said the africans participated in the slave trade. he wasn't up to it. he wasn't even going to take ownership for what america did. by the time he went it was not the right time for him.

but this president has had to strategically navigate through these waters said he could successfully get a second term. i don't and you would've been the right time for him. i think though clinton was the hope this time of this era for the apology and the fact he was in the white house, in the book the presidency -- "the presidency in black and white," we have the account for the e-mail where they were crossing out certain words to strike the words that were almost close to apologies. i just couldn't believe it. they were close. but it did not happen. >> host: april you've covered the white house you covered it through the prism, but you're also an american. you're a mom with youthful little kids who aren't that small anymore. you come from a strong family. do you -- do you vote?

there's some reporters who don't. how do you handle your own personal political beliefs? >> guest: some of our colleagues i heard they did vote. they wanted me to go to some of the functions because they were so strong in their feeling that we should not vote. i'm going to say this. i am a person like anyone and i know we talk about being a woman, strength of women. i am a woman, but at the same time i am a reporter too. but sometimes, the hat comes the happens often when it does, i do both. i am not telling you who i vote for. postcode you register? test: not getting into that. i live in the district of columbia where we can register as no party. >> host: but you vote in primaries as well as registered

elections? .. i love my white friends and i love my black friends. people want to believe that when you talk about black and white is it about being a racist? no. it's about history. it's about putting out there what's really going on. stats show there is disparity, but what i really want to impart is we need to know what's going

on, understand what's going on. it's not say you, you did this for you didn't do this. it's about us all coming together and talking and working this out. >> host:out. >> host: you think the white house press corps as a whole shows that same kind of respect? >> guest: well historically we know what happened seven years ago. >> host: tell everyone who that is how he was honored by the white house for his correspondence at its 100th dinner. >> guest: you're going to make me cry. 70 years ago there was a gentleman by the name of harry, a wordsmith. >> host: a print reporter. >> guest: yeah, who took his job seriously and wound up in a civil rights person, but he was

the first african-american reporter at the white house and he was told by the white correspondence don't come in this room because you could step on someone's toes defined what's going on. >> host: this is what franklin roosevelt was -- cast a yes go coming to because if you step on reporters does there'll be a riot, on a white report tells there will be all right. so ultimately roosevelt let him come in. and bottom line is this happened some years ago 70 years ago and it just boggles my mind we work so close to one another in that place and we worked so closely and to think where i stand now they wouldn't let him. moving fast for today you're always going to have a difference of opinion, always kind of the. some differences might be racial, the differences may be just differences of opinion.

i think as a whole we are trying to do better as a group. i think that we as a group, number one we don't want anyone to get an advantage over us. that's one thing. >> host: a professional competition. >> guest: a professional competition. but either some people who may harbor some animus racially? there could be. there may not be. i've had some incidents happened that i've questioned by have to shake it off and do it again another day because it's not worth fighting over right now. >> host: april ryan you do something been reporters don't do. at the end of your book you conclude with your explanation of how you have graded the three presidents that you have covered. and while i don't want to be a spoiler alert here on out the book turns out you covered bill clinton. you covered george w. bush, and

you covered barack obama three modern-day presidents who got eight years, two terms each. none of them flunk? >> guest: well there's a piece of one who flunks. >> guest: >> host: but none no one comes up with an eight either. you write that you rate president clinton as the reigning champion on diversity. why? >> guest: yes. he has had the most confirmed african-americans in his death cabinet, marshalls judges -- not judges, excuse me. barack obama is not the reigning champ on that one, but as far as u.s. marshals cabinet persons, confirmable positions, they work hard on diversity. when i say that they work hard

to do that and i give them the greater give them, it is good that he did that because he brought another group of people who were not at the table to the table in mass. various administrations there were african-americans throughout but in mass he brought people to the table to help make decisions. maybe we didn't all the things we thought we wanted or needed, but there at the table and to started the process. he began not just a picture the windowdressing but begin substantive change that trickle down to other administrations. >> host: george w. bush had an african-american secretary state and national security advisor and then a second african-american secretary of state at a time when the united states was very, very engaged around the world in trouble spots. desiccate good points that? >> guest: he gets great points that. bill clinton said this when

president bush was president and he said it last year at this time last year that george w. bush did have the most to first republican administration. and it's interesting that it was a republican who put his man and woman of peace in the position they were african-american. that was interesting. it took him to do that. so this was the first administration where you saw this kind of prominence for an african-american, and it followed suit in the obama administration with the attorney general. >> host: but that doesn't counterweight president bush's experience after katrina. was that racial? >> guest: i don't think president bush was being racist in his handling of katrina. and -- >> host: this is the hurricane that, of course, the affected so many minorities and lower income

people who were hurt by the storm in louisiana mississippi. >> guest: particularly in the ninth ward of new orleans where roots of people on rooftops begging for help. i'm going to say this, even president bill clinton for this book "the presidency in black and white," he says i don't think george bush was races. i think his policies did not help elevate people in poverty. now, when we talk about katrina, president bush had into a lot of trouble for the fact that he was caught up in a states' rights issue. on katrina. states had, states a low-carb have to deal with it and that's what blogged them down. but because people felt disenfranchised from the government and felt left alone because people died. >> host: barack obama is the first, probably not the last

african-american president that you will cover. but his grade of race relations isn't as high in your book as bill clinton's. >> guest: because of the first term. because in the first term i'm not going to see in action but because he did not come out. a second term, there are two different barack obama's, first term, second term. we see a more come as a second african-american president who is african-american versus i'm president who happens to be african-american who is a comfortable in his skin now. he knows who he is and he is not ashamed of it. first term he had to be strategic. he had to be very strategic. there was a fight within the white house for black farmers. he was the president who did get the black farmer payout after 17, 18 years of waiting for that money. so he was the president who did

that, but at the same time it was an assistant on going to do it. it took tactics and strategies. >> host: are you surprised that barack obama didn't make a stronger case his first term? >> guest: know because looking back he had to be who he was. >> host: because of the economy was in such troubled? >> guest: also joined other factors. you have a tea party as well. i remember hearing some people attended administration we don't want to quote-unquote implications of race and we also know that race and politics will always follow this president. the issue was many of them felt they had to really walk a fine line because anything that they did in this administration that specifically targeted african-americans they would hear from certain parties, certain groups that go against. that's what attracted you. >> host: event at the white house through a very, very exciting time come and thank you

for sharing your thoughts and your book here with us. >> guest: thank you, ann compton. >> that was "after words," booktv signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are indeed by journalists public policymakers and others familiar with their material. "after words" there's a weekend on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 by 9 p.m. on sunday, and 12 a.m. on monday. and you can also watch a "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" in the booktv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. >> by far the most jaw dropping aspect of life in crystal city was the fact that the camp was the center of fdr's secret

pressure exchange program. one of the lessons i learned through going through all these documents and enduring all these people is that by the governing it is called internment preventive, became a just flat andimprovement, the practice of incarcerating immigrants with blood ties to countries in which the united states is at war always exists in part for the purpose of exchange. it works like a human chess game. each side tries to get back their own citizens without giving up their highest valued prisoners. some of the people in crystal city were probably they probably should have been at crystal city. chris coons the head of the american nazi party was a high value prisoner for us for the

united states and germany desperately wanted him back. he was on one of the early trades. so that's the way it worked to we did want to give him up because roosevelt knew that he knew a lot that my could harm us. so every trade in the book described what was considered behind the trade. but the great tragedy of crystal city is that many of those traded should have been of the highest value to americans because many of them were american-born children. as this fact unfolded during years of research at the national archives in washington, d.c., and with any views with many former children, now out of the men and women in their 80s and sometimes '90s, i just found myself shaking my head in disbelief.

it was in crystal city that the machinery of modern internment in prison exchange was crafted on an industrial level. the first of four large prisoner exchanges took place in june 1942, and the second in september 2 1943. during these two exchanges more than 2000 japanese and japanese-americans were literally traded for other americans imprisoned in japan. in february 1944, 634 german residents and their american-born children were sent from crystal city into germany in exchange for americans. on january 2, 1945 428 more in crystal city were traded in the war. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> here's a look at some upcoming book fairs and festivals happening around the

country. let us know about book fairs and vessels in your area and we will add them to our list. e-mail us at booktv@c-span.org. spent booktv is on location at johns hopkins university in baltimore, maryland where we are talking with professors are also office. now joining us is a professor of the history of medicine here at johns hopkins, daniel todes. or faster togas, when you teach the history of medicine, to whom