couples than i used to when i was in high school. marriage is about to become legal. marijuana is changing, those laws. it's just evolutionary. the society just has to organically even subconsciously i'm guessing decides it's time for a change and time to move in a new direction. but you can't legislate that. people often will say you can't legislate morality. you kind of canned because if you couldn't you wouldn't make certain things illegal like murder and rape. ..

bush has just been released in the united states. it's about a unit traveling in afghanistan in 2009 that it's

all quite a bit of combat. i hoped you could explain about the title of the book. >> guest: it isn't a very famous poem but the company commander was killed in action in june 2009. his mother had sent a collection because his company was an amalgam of other companies to sort of build up the decor and he was referring to the companies. that company being in the suspended animation.

he was trying to say to them you are the reincarnation for the second world war. this was a way of unifying them but it became a theme of the book. the battalion commander and the company commander. of those three levels had been killed in action in the sense that testimony from the grave is at the core of the book and the other residents are an incident that toppled into the canal

hanging upside down in the dark with water rising. some were blocked out into the sonogram of the unborn child crushed to distressed and in other words flailing around before he passed out and even held hands and they were rescued they thought they were dead. and actually from the world war. >> host: can you talk me a little bit how you came to link up with this unit.

the guards and i had sort of coincidentally gotten to know them through my years as a journalist. the contact is when i was in northern ireland in the late 1990s and i went down to see them and wrote a book about the heartland and during that period i got to know a guy that turned out to be the commanding officer in 2009. so a young army intelligence officer and he became a good friend. so i kept in contact with him and met him in 2004 in the

province and got to know a lot of the welsh guardsman. i was back here in the state and i knew that they were in a bloody fight and that was since july 1 2009 i logged off my laptop and saw the headline. for me it was a personal loss and he was the father of two little girls so there was a big sort of national moment as well. the battalion commander had been killed in action so that was the trigger for me to get out there and find out what's going on. so i got in touch with the regimen and soon after that it became apparent with the lieutenant colonel to be flown

out to the place and i knew he was a commander in iraq so happenstance that this all came together about i got out there in august of 2009 and i was there for the last month or so of the talk and i was able to travel to the battle group. i traveled to all of the outposts and out on the ground with the troops. it isn't my description of what happened to me. it was an opportunity to start the interview process and you know when you are embedded in the troops you have conversations you don't have anywhere else because it is just sort of a mental place and you might be the last person they

ever speak to and you're it you're also someone coming from the outside and i was very clear to them that this was a work of contemporary history so they opened up a bit more when they knew that this wasn't going to be in the dalia telegraph the next week. so that was the start of it and there was one publisher that wanted me to write the book very quickly and i resisted that and i'm glad i did because i was then able to do many more interviews in the uk. peoples view of what happened to them and what this was all about and their experiences changed over time and i was able to get a large number of documents from the welsh guards and the

ministry of defense document which meant i could sort of leave these incredible detailed summaries of incident reports and signal traffic and the night watch keepers logs and transcripts and all sorts of stuff i was able to get and there's the aspect of ptsd and there were casualties that happened long after so that was sort of unexpected to examine that the sergeant who was one of the heroes in the buck i interviewed him after he'd gotten back. he'd been flown off -- blown off his feet twice. he seemed like he was on top of the world. it war hero attested, stepped up to the plate and approved herself but then he was

sentenced to death when he took his own life on new year's eve in 2012. so it was an extended kind of reporting and getting to know these people and following them for well over a year and still in touch with many of them. >> host: having spent time by self in helmand in 2010 with the u.s. marines i was sort of struck by the point of time between the american troops into the british troops and also perhaps even more so the leadership on the two sides it seems pretty clear some of those british commanders were concerned about the legacy and whether or not the american marines were going to steal the thunder. how much do you think that had an impact on what was happening on the ground to the rank-and-file welsh guardsman in the unit? >> to the ground level, not very much into there was tremendous

every. of those that were embedded in the welsh guards battle one of the most fascinating units within the unit for me was a bunch of snipers who historically were the green jackets and i arrived at this outpost knowing nothing about them and we came under fire from the convoy and it seemed pretty distant to me. i didn't think much of it and then i heard a big crash that sounded like a 50 caliber shot and i found the two snipers and they had like 75 kills in four weeks and the last two kills for the two cracks but i heard as we arrived. one thing i haven't expected is the snipers from that unit had

been operating with a summary of side-by-side in the dust and these are the outposts. there is one incident of a british corporal who killed four taliban and a very quick succession at a distance of more than a mile. right beside him taking the shots were marines who had their sort of laptops there and were downloading data from the u.s. drug. that was the u.s. black hawk that flew into recover the bodies had confirmed one of them is a fairly senior taliban commander. but most of the medical evacuations were done by american blackhawks. pedro for the british. most of the combat air support was an american. a lot of watch guards. at that level it was brothers in

arms and tremendous respect and comradeship. but certainly at the higher level this was a very sensitive time because the u.s. are being court arrived in june 2009 right at halfway through the talks for the watch guards in the brigade and any suggestion that the 20,000 or so marines were coming in to the rescue or bailing out the british which i think is a fair characterization of what was happening was just anathema and the british had to be very careful of it. and i know there were americans who said while plus it is part of home and so let's face it it was definitely an issue and they were sensitive about what happened in southern iraq and a feeling of sort of failure and

disappointment from the u.s. military in the british performance and so they were weary at the same thing that happened in helmand and i think alternately that is what happened as i am i'm sure you found out in places there was criticism of the british tactics and there was a feeling that they haven't been able to do the job and that's why the marines were there. >> host: that brings up a good point. if the indication when you hear the grumbling they don't come out of the base base as much time reading the book i got an appreciation for the other side of the sergeant level in those british units because you could kind of get the sense for why that was the case and they were so under resourced with boots on the ground and the number of people and the equipment and the problems they had with radio and

the lack of batteries and air power. can you speak a little bit too what they were dealing with and just why it would be that way? >> guest: that's not something that i had anticipated. when i was out there i knew about the casualties. i knew that there was an intense fight going on with what i had not expected to start they didn't have enough enough income men, 10,000 british troops in helmand, another 20,000 u.s. marines coming in, enough men for the mission was not the right equipment. so rupert, his death is one of those examples of truth being that it and any kind of fiction. almost tragically poetic way he died. he was killed inside of a trapped vehicle july 1, 2009.

a vehicle that shouldn't have been used on the narrow tracks. it wasn't properly armored. they improvised by putting an armored plate on the front cabinet so that the taliban would realize that an offset of the pressure plate and it would explode behind the the vehicles are one reason he was killed as he was in the vehicle and it wasn't properly protected. if he were in an msu wouldn't have been killed. the reason he was in the wrong vehicle is because there was this real phenomena that will shock out there among the welsh guards and where some of these guards 18 19-year-old were going into a panic and absolutely terrified and the main reason for that is because they were searching for the improvised explosive devices using metal detectors. but the tablet and at that point had developed low metal content or no metal content ied's and

the plastic component. one is like looking with gold and absolutely terrifying that you could just be looking for this device into the next steps you could just be blown to pieces. rupert appreciated that so as a lieutenant colonel he did that kind of job sometimes going in with the metal detector and on the day that he was killed, that is what he was doing. it was a way of his leadership style to demonstrate that he was going to take the same risks that the soldiers were and he paid the price and the other aspect is during the operation that was the big sweeping brigade level operation that

tended to happen every six months but on a very short cycle which was flawed and certainly that's the american view. and some of the american view was that it should be longer but these big sweeping operations which resulted in lots of medals but the senior british officers had a sort of declaration of victory and great success and the number of television on the body count but he didn't have enough troops to hold the ground that rupert said the operations were flawed in the context and he got a plan for his part of panthers claw modified because he felt that the area that was being given to them was too large and as a part of that modification that is one of the reasons that he was on the canal that day so all of these aspects of the british strategy and the

lack of equipment and manpower also coalesced in that single moment which still sends a chill down my spine when i think about it. >> host: your book focuses a fair amount on the rank-and-file on the individuals put into the difficult situations that they have never been in before and a lot of them even if they had been in 20 years have never even seen a single gunshot go over their head. the scene with the lieutenant leading has been in combat but getting shot in the back end of vicious ambush turned ugly quickly. how much have you heard from or kept in touch with the individuals since the book came out and can you speak at all

where they are now? >> guest: the young platoon commander by all accounts would go in places very charismatic young officer tremendously excited to be in charge of this outpost right on the sort of edge of the expected area of operation. so in may of 2009 at the start and again, you know he was writing in his diary that the radios didn't work in chief is and he was concerned about the lack of medical equipment and helicopter evacuation procedures and also she didn't know what the mission was. and so the patrol on that day it

was really the presence patrol which was to go out there and be seen and reassure the local population which was nonsensical in the context at that point and so a big ambush and what we found out is a revelation in the epilogue in the u.s. edition i found a very recently is in all likelihood the bullet that killed him he was mortally wounded and what happened as he was mortally wounded and heroic medal awarded. he'd gone back to the base there were screw ups with helicopters and he got back well outside of the golden hour and basically bled to death and the

life-support machine is turned off by his family. but the tragic postscript i was able to find out about in publishing the epilogue is that it was 7.62 nato round that killed him so almost certainly general purpose machine gun by the welsh men in the heat of the battle from the vase itself. one of the hardest moments in research and writing this book was to break the news, i was breaking the news to some of these welsh guardsman looking at the report i think of as a friendly fire death. one guy who suffered a very severe battle shock, he treated mark when he was wounded and he

had a special dynamic with him and was absolutely devastated by his death and i talked to him but he is able to veto missing from the army and has gone through ptsd, a lot of drinking drugs, seems to be in a better place now but a very fragile and a member particularly from the platoon were seriously affected and came back different people and i think always will be. >> host: you touched on this already but i think especially when you start talking about the british and american relationship and be dynamic and just the history of home and that is a place where the british took a beating especially before the troops and 2010. what did you see, what surprised you in terms of what they were

dealing with and in terms of taliban tactics or the lack of equipment, just the overall day-to-day struggle that they had? >> guest: he wasn't in the welsh guards area of operation but one of the things is that they were sort of robbing peter to pay paul so they were taking soldiers out and putting them into the operations and then there was one instance that five british switchers were killed in the period because there were even more on-demand than usual. i found about there was a lack of coherent strategy from the british about what they were doing so this was also a period of the overall strategy. so the general had taken over

and presented the report that said basically we are losing this war and we need to move through and have to surge in the troops. but we are waiting for president obama speak of path that came in the west point speech at the end of the year and he gave them the surge and inserted this timetable withdrawal that sent a mixed message. what i found was during this period we have the british platoon commanders in episode and level pleading with afghans saying we are with you for the long haul. we will stay. but sometimes there is one particular where i heard a conversation, part of a conversation like this and on the base was a caretaker that had worked for usaid 1960s,

1970s and then worked for the russians on the same base. he works for the taliban and on the base there were filing cabinets full of usaid documents. there was a sort of equipment from russia and equipment and it was just sort of a graveyard of that type of situation and you could see they were not convinced him of the british were sort of saying to me privately we don't know either. we need an answer to this because you know we can't keep on peddling this line if we don't know if it is true. there was a lot of dismay when the withdrawal date was announced because a lot of the troops felt that their dealings with the afghans had been so dishonest because they were not

really for it in the long haul in the domestic political timetable though it was a pretty complex relationship. >> host: at the time there were a couple american marine units and a couple battalions in other places in helmand to hear debate. did you hear or see anything like they are dealing with this? you get into a situation where you are in places like that and it can seem like a world away. >> guest: there was the welsh guard unit that described it like the famous welshman awarded

when the beleaguered force was overrun and they felt they were in a draft but they were in the u.s. marines arriving and they described like the cavalry arriving over the horizon when they got there. so at a lower level i know there was a lot of angst at the headquarters and as i said before the u.s. was coming in and saving the data because the british went up to it but at the lower level nothing but praise for the americans. we also started to see this concept of courageous restraint and a slowdown from genital -- general make crystal and of the need to take risks to avoid the civilian casualties even if that

meant he might actually take more of the casualties were so considering this period there was one sergeant who said to me he seems like a bit of a tree hugger to me which the former head of j. fox that oversaw the campaign he described it as an industrial scale killing about qaeda in iraq not used to being called h. we have her but that was the early sign over interpreting down the chain with some sort of enthusiastic low-level officers who were making the troops take too many risks on the basis that you avoid civilian casualties where you cannot fight any kind of war

without. so there was some resentment about what was seen as a sort of american political correctness ruled that actually meant they could be killed but that was very much on the marines of the u.s. military subsequently that they were losing because this doctrine. >> host: very much. you can hear the rules of engagement like a curse word around that timeframe. and i have seen similar things as well. on the flipside, the book touches on several times some of those groups moments when the british felt like they were stuck in a bad firefight where they sold one thing and it turned out to be another and there are several examples of farmers getting killed were civilians getting killed after-the-fact post 2009 did you

ever see or hear -- how much of that is the struggle or is it more of the guardsmen? >> guest: i think the civilian casualty is part of it. i was speaking to the father of a young guardsmen who said he just found his son curled up in his bedroom weeping saying i killed an 11-year-old boy holding his sunday has arms saying you did what you had to do. so it's really does cut to the core. i did a documentary for the bbc about ptsd and suicide and there was another guardsmen who fired a missile at a bunch of insurgents. was totally legitimate and he

recalled seeing those fly through the air and thinking as he was talking to me he had his baby in his hand and it weighed in on his mind on something that troops had to deal with and so you eluded to the incident where clearly there is a humankind desire for vengeance and the military need to strike back and when you've taken a casualty like that it was just very close which was being routinely seeded

everybody believed it wasn't working correctly. he was very angry about this and said it was the result of being gung ho but that they killed a farmer and worked the fields in the middle of the night to avoid being taxed by the taliban out of the heat of the day and so he was needlessly killed and obviously that is a propaganda victory for the town again and so all these things are interconnected. there is so much looking at the death of friendly fire and who knows, perhaps a number of young men from the village fighting for the tablet and yes, civilian casualties as well as the moral aspect of it and the

counterinsurgency of the counterproductive best for the individual who is either through a mistake or completely legitimate action or a form of the combination of the two i think it really does weigh in on people. >> host: you reconstruct where this came from in its history and background of a lot of the rank and file and also the officers they come from a completely different world. that's sometimes the case on the american side as well. how much of that -- you start the book by explaining the importance in terms of the cultural importance in the unit to the conflict in the 80s and then the way that a lot of these welsh soldiers came up. why in good level of detail, why

was it important? >> guest: i thought that it was essential for the psyche of the welsh guards and the way they fought in helmand and again this is only my belief that i think if it hadn't been for the war that is kind of bizarre because it was in 1982 and this was in 2009 but they were killed while sitting on a ship waiting to land when they were hit by argentine bonds. one of the most her in this incidence is in the falklands war. but one of the things about the casualties is that there were no officials killed and mostly it was overwhelmingly the guardsmen's and corporals, a couple sergeants but very much below. it was the sense that they were on the ship like a sitting duck

because of the actions of officers and so even now you can go to the watch guards and there will be an argument about what happened that day. i don't think it is a complete coincidence that three officers were killed. psychologically there was a kind of common behavior and it was a part of the regimen that some of the officers had been blamed. i think this is a very strong sense of history in this moment that they were going out in the infantry battalion having never really had the chance to fight in the war because they were hit so badly before they even

landed. i was fascinated. i am now an american status and -- citizen and british classes something i still don't understand. but particularly the guards regiment in case of the welsh guardsmen 95% are welsh from the mining villages and some of the welsh speakers from these very small communities and get almost all of the officers are at the class which is a fascinating sort of dynamic and they will make arguments that it means we will know and that will never work on the battlefield. so it is very interesting but that is part of the culture of the regiments and so to get into

the psyche of the individual soldiers and this kind of psyche of the regimen i thought was very important both for me and the reader to understand that. >> host: you touched on the colonel rupert's interactions with the ministry of defense and his previous job but also that sort of when he thought it necessary going around the chain of command basically doing whatever he could to get his own soldiers that he thought they needed. that is pretty central to the book throughout to be put in the place where they were not really prepared for. what lessons do you think there are for the british military at couple years out by kathy learned from this, is this the kind of thing that is coming up and are they changing anything? >> guest: good question. i would like to think so but there are signs that they are not.

helmond was seen by the british army as a chance on an opportunity for redemption after the government of iraq but many of the states were made. i think that they improve the equipment and the procurement through the chain. this was still the lowest point if you like but the thing about rupert is he had in the military assistant to defense secretary before taking the command of the regiment said he'd gone from having this equivalent and overseeing the british government and the policies and he'd gone from the top right down to this very level and so this was something i didn't know about certainly while he was alive and it came through the documents and people eventually sort of opening up to me and

telling me about conversations they had with him and yet he made himself really unpopular with the brigade because he was -- some people would say he thinks he's a general but he's not. and we are on the brigadier staff and we need to suck it up like everyone else. but he felt he knew the reasons for some of the rules that were being quoted for that reason he couldn't have more men and so he was -- you're mistaken. you are interpreting this will and i know because i was there when the rule was instituted. he was a very self-effacing character. he didn't express this arrogant way that he was really, really dotted and i think that he knew he was destined for the highest ranks and i think that he had

made the calculation that he could upset the brigadier's and i also think that at the core was the belief in serving and leading the troops. he died for his troops and i think he was prepared to do that and that's the way he believed he needed to lead and fight and he wasn't going to be one of these commanders who thought i will just take the box here, get my metal, and press the brigadier and get more metal recommendations that i i will be moved up the chain. i think that he had a confidence that was above that and some of the fees believes please that he made up of helicopters and the

watchdog officer that passed as the members of the parliament and the next day they were discussed at the time investors question time with david cameron selecting denmark edison's diary about the inadequacy of equipment and the reason that he was there that have a very profound impact and his mother wrote her own book but she had done a lot of media so i think that there are lessons in the watch guard coming through the society and the army that whether it really changes things we will just have to see. >> host: are there any cultural dynamics at play and this is something for those who don't have any knowledge or understanding of the way things

are and it might be viewed differently than the unit from a different part of the country just in terms of where they come from, what the differences are. >> guest: the system is unique. they've been amalgamated through the years. watchdog is a new regimen formed in 1915. if you look at the scots guard they have a much are sort of cohesive sense i think than almost any other regiments in the british army but they are also in infantry regiment and the guards that you see outside

of buckingham palace and they have a ceremonial role and so a lot of these guys who are fighting and dying in helmond are those that you see outside of changing the guard and so there is a debate about that in the british army. it is a regular infantry battalion with a ceremonial role but there was an element you're not real infantrymen and there was a sloppiness they didn't like that runs right through. so even than the then the soldiers were being picked up by the officers.

so they thought while that is bull. we should focus on the military and this kind of appearance and smart solution for stuff. it takes you away from the real soldiering. so yes, i have always found that with the british that so many factors are at work and each in each unit and history plays a real part of it. >> host: in the rivalries between the marines or even in some of those different -- whether you are reconnaissance work regular infantry or whatever the case is. it's just everywhere absolutely

>> host: looking at it now plus reports i think in a lot of cases are frightening and the afghan army is still there, the police are still there but we've also got reports of the islamic state and we've also got the taliban and it appears to certainly have taken over a lot of our territory. what do you see as kind of the british piece of this in terms of what went right and what went wrong. >> guest: certainly most people believe we shouldn't have been there. it's a feeling that real dismay at how it's turned out and politicians and generals let the

troops down there is one chilling passage in the book where david miller brand who is a foreign secretary in 2010 asked the provincial governor will be the legacy and i think they were expecting how long will the british legacy last and expected a decade or decade in the generation and he replied within 48 hours we will all be hanging from the nearest tree and i think that is what is coming out now. it's code located with the u.s. marine corps base and first it was in january, 2006 before the british arrived. i went there on my own with another reporter and afghan

driver and we drove from kandahar lying on the back of the seat warlords sort of walking on the road with contractors saying british can be hit on the road to afghan talk about the battle from the 19th century and they will be vying with the grandfathers, so i think the taliban are moving into the space is at certainly britain to pick this up so what was it all for? we were there for almost every inch of the ground and now we've just left and it's clear to many of the troops this was very much

present and the company commander and basically afghan police in particular. we have to guard ourselves against them and sure enough just after i left the major came in for a senior nco in the regimen. i've been traveling around with them for two weeks fantastic guy shot dead by an afghan policeman along with four other guardsmen. so in britain as here there is the sense of what is at all for and why did we do this. >> host: as a history lesson and perhaps because i spent time there in 2010, that district or

what became that district is touched on quite a bit in the book but it's always kind of this spooky place that they are just not going to go. what did you see and what did you hear and also in terms of kind of having the sense that at some point there was great to be a large operation. >> guest: i've always found maps interesting. i was given a map of the area of the operations and all the outposts and everything so i got my bearings but then i went into the operations room and i was shown another map of the operations and i have been told was in the top left-hand left

hand corner and all the rest of it was just sort of blank. i said what about that and in the left-hand corner i had this sense of the background, then controlled territory that's where all of the supply routes were and there was definitely talk about larger with me need to be dealt with and then it became this place where lots of millions were killed and it was a big moment and it sort of answer answered the public consciousness but i think when i was out there nobody in britain or the united states would have heard of it. it was very much on the agenda but it was kind of that if that is what the u.s. marines will be dealing with. >> host: interesting. i found it fascinating even going back my last trip was 2012

and it was considered at least in the district to send her to be pretty safe at that point. now you had in the initial send her the kind of same thing. you still have these in between and even in 2012 when there have been years of american operations with a whole lot more manpower it was still where you push people into get them out of the other districts. >> guest: ira member a young army officer in iraq in the diyala province describing it like a balloon and a way that in the way that you put pressure on and removed the air and it goes into another and i think that is often the case. the district sense of where the guards were, that would be the place that would strike fear into the hearts of the british soldier and then it would be

taken and seem relatively benign i think that is the way that it is any more. >> host: we have just about five minutes left. i wanted to touch on the human aspect of this. both countries are coming to the end of afghanistan. there was a different kind of conflict. the door book touches on the struggles that a lot of these individuals had later with the suicide problems in the drinking problems and the stress that it puts on the marriages and families and parents and kids and everything. do you see especially with an interesting perspective on this as someone who kind of track that from both sides of the ocean how have the british done

taking care of the military post conflict and preparing for this and what kind of differences are there between that and the way the americans to? >> guest: pretty bad unfortunately. i mean, we don't have a va system. there is no separate administration. it is all between the ministry of defense and the department of health. but in doing this bbc documentary that features a lot of soldiers from the welsh guards it became apparent they don't actually track veterans. once you've been discharged i was trying to find out how many veterans served in afghanistan have taken their life and the answer is we don't know. you just have to check the newspaper cuttings. and so, you know really kind of flawed system. and i think -- while i know actually there's a belief for

very senior people in defense did give you comfort in that it isn't a british proverb it's something that americans get. they do acknowledge that some get it but they cite statistics showing that ptsd is higher in than the equivalent civilian possession and a state the americans are overdiagnosed. i think there are heads in the sand here because i had a little bit of skepticism of ptsd and what is it and is it just a way of getting out of things or the kind of benefits afterwards. but being out there with people and those that served and were on board he actually drank himself to death when he got back to britain. and i view these as casualties.

although we know about the problems of being in the va system and the british are behind all this. >> host: is there any talk about reinventing the system or improving the system are developing a new way to take care of it? >> guest: there's there is always a debate about it and for instance they talk about a new tracking system so that in the national health service you put in a code which shows doctors that you still have a national health system where soldiers leave the military become veterans and ben are in the system with very little sort of help and any kind of military context. >> host: are they falling back

all on the campaign to attract the differences or try to learn lesson from what happened? >> guest: there was a study that the ministry defense commission has a number of problems with the methodology which was kind of opaque but they went out of their way to prove in their own mind that the rate of suicide was way below that equivalent population and the answer being there isn't a problem here we don't need to worry about it. >> host: to turn that around is there too much emphasis on the way things are in the united states and the way that the veterans are tracked? it does make the news regularly and there are a lot of people deeply invested in the problem and a lot of folk dot trackback and are concerned about that and we would include ourselves in

that but when you compare that to another country where there is that attention -- >> guest: you have to be careful about portraying victims were ticking time bombs or angry men about to go postal at any moment. so there is a sort of caricature that has been inserted in the last years and i think most veterans are very proud of their service. they've grown as people and they've got amazing skills. they came back from the war as different people but in many ways better people so it's important they shouldn't be for trade as victims but at the same time ptsd is real they can be treated. we need to reduce the stigma and have access to treatment but i think it's very important you can't dishonor or be little or sort of caricature the services

at the same time you need to acknowledge that there are problems. >> host: i would agree with that completely and that is something we spend a lot of time around the troops past and present and i don't think there are easy answers to this problem at all. but at least there's attention on it and investment in it. we are pretty much out of time but i want to thank you. i've really enjoyed this conversation. thank you. congratulations. >> that was afterwards come afterwards, booktv signature program which authors of the latest nonfiction books were interviewed by journalists, public policymakers and others familiar with their material. after words airs every weekend

on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch online. go to booktv.org and click on after words in the book tv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. ..