well to the great panelists. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> when we're finished here networking goodies outside meaning wine and cheese and other things so that we can continue this conversation. thank you. thank you again for your attention. >> here are some of our featured programs for weekend on the c-span networks. saturday morning starting at 10 a.m. eastern live on c-span our nation's governors get together to discuss issues affecting their states. guests include danny meyer ceo of union square hospitality

group and maria bartiromo of fox business news. and sunday morning at 11 we continue our live coverage of the national governor withs' association meeting. featured speakers include homeland security secretary jeh johnson and epa administrator gina mccarthy. on c-span2 saturday booktv is on the road experiencing the literary life of greensboro north carolina part of the 2015 c-span cities tour. and sunday at 9 p.m. eastern on "after words" wes moore retracing his career choices from wall street banker to social entrepreneur to find his life's purpose. and on american history t on c-span -- american history tv on c-span3 saturday night just after seven the 1963 interview of malcolm x discussing race relations and opposition to racial integration. and sunday at 6:30 p.m. eastern,

former cia chief of disguise josh that mendez -- jonna mendez tells the story of a husband and wife team that intill traited -- infiltrated the cia through the use of sex in the 1970s. let us know what you think about programs you're watching. call us at 202-626-3400. e-mail us at comments@c-span.org or send us a tweet at @ @c-span@comments. hike us on facebook follow us -- like us on facebook follow usen -- us on twitter. >> he saw an envelope with kind of a green seal on it and walked over and noticed the tate was an

1832 -- the date was an 1832 document. he removed a single nail from a panel in an upstairs attic room and discovered a trunk and books and portraits stuffed up under the eaves, and this was this treasure of dolley madison's things. we've had this story available to the public, some displaying different items from time to time but trying to include her life story from her birth in gilford county to her death in 1849. some of the items that we currently have on display a card, ivory calling card case that has a card enclosed with dolley's signature as well as that of her niece anna. some small cut glass perfume bottles and a pair of silk slippers that have tiny little ribbons that tie across the arch of her foot. and the two dresses are the

reproductions of a silk, peach silk gown that she wore early in life and a red velvet gown which has intrigued both that it's lasted ask was part of this collection -- and was part of this collection. and there's also a legend that is now, accompanies this dress. >> watch all of our events from greensboro saturday at noon eastern on c-span2's booktv and sunday afternoon at two on american history tv on c-span3. >> a live look at the washington institute for near east policy. coming up at 12:30 p.m. eastern time we'll take you to a discussion on the increasing number of foreign fighters joining i -- isis. speakers will include general doug stone the european union's counterterrorism coordinator and the mayor of a denmark city also will participate in this event. again, live coverage coming up in about 25 minutes 12:30 p.m.

eastern time here on c-span2. until then a look at xavier university of louisiana, part of washington journal's tour of historically black colleges and universities.shin >> it was earlier this month that the c-span bus started at wa tour of historically black colleges and university.rted our first stop was howard university here in washington d.c.e to we went to morehouse college andy, spelman college, florida a&m, tuskegee university, and todaynclu we conclude our tour not only of visits on these campuses but speaking with their leadership.r xavier university of louisiana in new orleans is where the c-span bus finds itself today you and onboard the bus joining us for a discussion taking a look at historically black colleges and universities is lorenack blanchard, the provost and senior vice president for academic affairs of xavier university of louisiana. dr. blanchard, thanks for. bl joining us.

>> host: what is your job and, specifically, what does it mean for academic pursuits at xavier university? >> guest: well, i'm serving as provost and senior vice president for academic affairs you're absolutely right that provost title was recently added to give a greater level of support to our president, president francis, where i now serve as his key adviser not only on academic goals and issues, but also operational issues. in addition to that, it provides me the opportunity to serve as the primary coordinator of the work of all of the vice presidents here on xavier's campus to make sure that we're laze arer focused -- laser focused on the goals that we have established here that we need to achieve strategically. in addition to that, it provides me the opportunity to give some additional support to dr. francis to go out and to not only spread the word about the great achievements that are happening on this campus, but

also to lobby for dollars for some of the critical needs that we have on campus as well. >> host: some of the things from your web site tells us that it was back in 2013 where you consolidated some of the programs of the colleges in arts and sciences. there's an effort to move people into your pharmaceutical school at a faster pace. is that part of your job trying to make academics more efficient on the campus? >> guest: well, it certainly is part of my job. you know the reality is that one of the things that we've been really working hard to promote here at xavier it's a greater sense of interdisciplinarity across the different curricular areas that often times you are find on a college -- you find on a college campus and certainly here at xavier where many of the disciplines are operating in silos. and what we have found is that more and more now students are looking for opportunities to graduate with multiple types of skill sets that really transcend

one specific discipline but that will run across disciplines. so one of the main reasons why we did move to the division level was to increase opportunities for faculty to collaborate, to be thinking about innovative programming in such a way where students will be able to benefit more greatly in terms of options that they would have for their curricular experiences. in addition to that, one of the main reasons we did it was for leadership purposes. having 19 academic departments operating under one college with the expectation that one dean would be able to give the kind of resources and the kind of help and guidance to those 19 departments became a little unwieldy. and so the thinking was that to consolidate some of those departments into divisions -- six, to be exact -- where now we

have a better opportunity for the dean to work very closely with those six chairpersons of those respective divisions and giving them the help that they need in order to move those divisions forward. and lastly one of the main reasons we did it was for cost efficiency purposes. obviously, trying to fund a model that had 19 departments now looking at six divisions has been really healthy financially, healthier for xavier. and as a result of that, we've been able to really take those dollars and place the additional dollars we would have placed into those models into student success programs and help families shore up their finances for students ebb rolling -- enrolling in xavier. of. >> host: your student enrollment is about 3,000. what is your role in not only recruiting students but making sure they graduate in 4-6 years?

>> guest: hey, that's been really the focal part of my work since i have been here at cavier for the -- xavier for the past seven years. the reality is that student success really is the number one strategic goal of our campus and i'm sure that you have heard the same thing as you've visited the other hbcus. not only in terms of looking at the number of students who enroll at xavier, but more importantly the persistence piece. and that's what we really have been focused on here at xavier; providing the kind of support that we know that students need in order to be successful. academic support as well as social support. in addition to that, making sure that they are close mentoring opportunities. you know, there's a striking difference between being an adviser, an academic adviser and also being a mentor. and so with that we really have

been working with our faculty in providing the kind of development and support where they understand that they have to play dual roles advisers as well as mentors to students. and lastly, really shoring up our undergraduate research providing opportunities for every one of our students to be linked to a faculty member that is heavily engaged in some form of research. we know clearly that student engagement in research is one of the primary factors for persistence as well as student engagement in service opportunities. so once the student really gets connected and really understands that all of these kinds of experiences tie into the next step -- and that is, either moving into a career or moving into graduate and professional school graduate or professional school -- that that really is the beauty of what xavier has been able to accomplish over the

years in terms of students really connecting those dots and understanding the value of the overall educational experience that then will land them into really strong professional careers. >> host: loren blanchard of xavier university joining us to talk about his university, historically black colleges and universities. if you have questions for him 202-748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8001 for mountain and pacific. and if you attended an hbcu, 202-748-8002. we'll take those calls momentarily. dr. blanchard, college education is where you're at, but we have someone on twitter who asked if you've seen a decline pattern in freshman attendance due to insufficient high school u.s. curricula? i wonder if you take a look at what's going on at the high school level especially as those students come to your college. >> guest: yeah we spend quite a bit of time in our enrollment

management work looking at high schools. obviously, looking at the feeder schools, the main feeder schools for xavier not only here in the state and in the region, but across the country. and really getting a better understanding of why it is that students select xavier and then why they are not. and what we are finding in the category of why they are not i'll start there primarily has hinged on affordability issues. as you well know, hbcus were -- historically black colleges and universities -- were hit very hard not only by the recent economic recession, but also with the parent plus loan debacle that i'm sure that we'll probably discuss more later. and what it really ended up doing was creating difficulties for families middle class and as well as higher economic class families, to be able to afford a college education particularly at a private university.

and so with that one of the things that we have had to do is to really build our base, build stronger our base of scholarship support and really work with corporations and foundations to help them understand that while it typically scholarship support is not one of the lawyers that they would want to invest in higher education, it became vital for xavier and all of the other hbcus to the really get those agencies and foundations to help to give that level of support in order to keep families whole and more importantly, to get students into xavier and to allow them to persist and to graduate. so affordability really was the has been the major challenge as we have been working with our main feeder schools and studying those high schools very carefully. you know one of the other issues that we face has been

underpreparation of students particularly in the math and science disciplines. and so with that we really have been concentrating very hard on two things. one, you may or may not know about xavier's summer programs and those summer programs are pipeline programs that begin as early as eighth grade where students spend summers with us eighth grade all the way up until the time in which they enter the university through our summer science academy which provides us an opportunity to not only help them to shore up, if you will, those math and scientific skills but also allows us to build a greater sense of scientific literacy, numerical literacy as well as critical thinking and problem solving that we know really is inherent to being able to be successful in a s.t.e.m. discipline science, technology, engineering and. mathematics. -- mathematics. is on the other -- i'm sorry. >> host: i just want to give

folks a chance for the numbers again, 8000 in the eastern and pacific time zones 8001 in the central and mountain time zones. dr. blanchard, i want to get some calls to you. from jacksonville florida, you are up first. go ahead. >> dr. blanchard, once again -- >> guest: good morning. >> caller: thank you to all of the hbcus who have contributed specifically to my family across america. i once again would make mention of a kindred of mine who attended your university, and he's yielded to high esteem. his name was henry palmer who resided in the city of chicago and was a pharmacist. and he spoke specifically of a priest who helped him in attending that university

catholic priest by the name of father -- [inaudible] and him helping him to attend the university in the area of science. and his simplistic way of which he taught chemistry and so once again i thought to make mention of your university's contribution to my family. >> host: thanks, caller. dr. blanchard. >> guest: well, the reality is that while we are a liberal arts university xavier's really -- our claim to fame has been the critical work that we've been able to do over at least three or four decades now in preparing students for s.t.e.m. disciplines and s.t.e.m. careers. xavier has really had the unique

honor to be able to stand as the number one institution in the united states in the number of african-american students in particular that we prepare who go on to medical school. we also have had the unique distinction of being number one in the nation of preparing the largest number of african-american students who complete medical school. we're also number three in the nation right behind howard and spelman in the number of african-americans who go on to pursue and complete ph.d.s in s.t.e.m. disciplines, also produce the highest number of pharmacists throughout t country. and so with that, you know, there's a strong focus, obviously, on s.t.e.m. but it's also a strong focus on the kind of curricular experiences research experiences service experiences that we give to our students that we really stand proud of and understand that that really helps to create the

unique brand here at xavier. you know, it's really kind of odd that if you think about it, you know, we have -- we are at 3,000 students now and we have never been higher than 4,000 students since the start of this fine university. but how unique it is that with only 3000 students and all of the colleges and universities across the united states that we have the distinction of being number one in the placement of students into medical proto negativeses. and i don't -- professions. and i say that not only -- i say it as a point of pride but i also say it because it really gives, i think an underscoring of how much work that still needs to be done as it relates to minorities being prepared for s.t.e.m. disciplines. >> host: from middleburg, new york, jeff is up next. go ahead. >> caller: yes, i have a question regarding use of the term "historically black colleges." you would not use the term

"historically white colleges," you would be accused of discrimination, so my question is, what is the colleges' outreach towards other races and is it not racist to call a universitily historically black and also since we're trying to achieve the goal of not having anything related to race, what is the outreach to -- would you use the term european-americans or asian-americans or white or black? why don't -- why doesn't the college focus on getting the best student population and helping people who are economically disadvantaged who might be from other races? >> guest: good question. let me start by saying that xavier's enrollment practices certainly aren't discriminatory in any way. if you were to look at cave aier about ten years -- xavier about ten years ago, you would have noticed that our student demographic had it that we were

about 90% african-american students and about 5% asian students and 3% caucasian-american and then the remaining percent others. today that has changed substantially. although we are coined and recognized and we are proud of the fact that we are an historically black university the reality is that we only are at this point 70% black in terms of our student demographic. the next highest amount of students that we have here at xavier are vietnamese-americans followed closely by caucasian-americans. and so, you know, i know that in many instances when you hear the term "historically black," it may connote that it's just a distinct university and cha a our recruit -- and that our recruitment practices are solely targeted or solely focused on african-american students. that is not the case.

we -- our doors are open to every student and we are proud about the fact that our demographics are shifting the way that they are. and that, you know to counter the thinking that because the term -- and this term has long been used hbcu -- it doesn't mean in any way that contemporary practices are not used in order to insure that we're preparing students for the professional work force. and so sometimes people get bogged down with that term "historical," meaning old, ancient and stuck in our ways. but the reality is that it's the very opposite. not only here at xavier, but certainly by way of the other historically black colleges that you have focused on here through c-span. >> host: loren blanchard of xavier university of louisiana joining us. tyrone is in baton rouge, louisiana. go ahead. >> caller: hello mr. blanchard, and thank you for taking my call. this may be mixing apples and oranges, but first i want to

congratulate you on your academic excellence and your outreach to the young especially the young black students who are in eighth grade on up to try to get them to critically think. it's most important. but i want to ask you something about historically black colleges in general in regards to athletics. and this has to do with generating funds. an enormous amount of money at these big colleges like lsu who i'm sure you're familiar with florida, alabama to recruit black kids. they go to these towns and when young peewee have recruits, they recruit guys from eighth grade seventh grade. i don't see the same emphasis on them recruiting academically maybe potentially gifted kids like yourself. and i just want to try to ask your opinion even though it may not be academics -- i mean athletics may not be your department can you just expound

on how much money that that generates to those colleges who are going -- they didn't want the kids at one time. >> guest: well, you know, the reality is that we know that here at xavier -- and, certainly, with the other historically black colleges and universities -- we could never compete with the lsus of the world. and nor do we even try to compete with them in terms of recruitment of students as well as the kinds of dollars that are generated through their respective athletic programs. you know where our focus has been more here at xavier is really trying to cultivate this whole notion of athletic scholars and that, you know, that they don't have to be separate that an athlete can't also be a scholar. and so the reality is that through all of the various sports programs that we have here at xavier, our focus has been obviously in cultivating

them and making sure that they're going to be strong athletes, but also we work very hard to make sure that they're going to be strong scholars. because our ultimate goal is to make sure that they too are able to persist academically, to graduate and then go on not only to perhaps become national athletes, national stars and national athletic stars, but also to make sure that they're able to move into professional fields of study and that all of the investment that they have made at a respective university at xavier in particular that it's not lost by just simply being an athlete and not also focusing on the scholarship side as well. >> host: we've divided the lines regionally, plus a line set aside for those of you in the audience who have attended a historically black college and university. betty from montclair, new jersey, good morning. >> caller: good morning.

and thank you for taking my call. i've really enjoyed this series and the question that you would like to address to the provost is what do you wish your -- or think that your alumni base should or would be doing around the issue of sustaining hbcus other than and in addition to raising money? and before i end this i'd like to say we missed an opportunity to tell the caller beforehand about why historically black colleges exist in the first place. and it just shows us how much americans either ignore or dismiss the history of african-americans in this country. >> guest: thank you. the -- with respect to the alums, you know obviously the

best form of support that they can provide certainly for us here at xavier is the financial support. but, you know, where we also really need quite a bit of help in that we have been relying very heavily on our alumni base here at xavier is for students you know? and more importantly, helping us to determine who are the very best and brightest in their respective cities and going out and helping us to recruit those students get them here at xavier so that they can enroll and more importantly that they can persist and graduate. you know, that element has really been, is important and has been important for xavier. but the other piece i think that is really important is just as you just alluded to, helping families to understand the value of an hbcu experience and that more importantly to understand the value of a xavier experience particularly as it relates to

the track record that we have in with producing strong s.t.e.m. professionals. and more importantly, i think that, you know, those alums can can really be strong voices strong voices for the kinds of experiences that they had here at xavier and that more importantly, how it has empowered them in ways to become leaders in their respective fields. to me, that is probably one of the best ways that our alum ares can hope to promote finish alums can hope to promote the work we do here at xavier as well as to stand as ambassadors for the university relative to the roles that they serve in their professional communities. >> host: dr. blanchard, i want a quick response to a couple of things that apply to xavier university as far as firsts are concerned. you have an institute on campus that's devoted to chinese language and culture, and if i understand it correctly, the first of its kind at an hbcu.

what is that? >> right. we're no longer the only, but we were the first to establish a confucius institute here at xavier, and just as you've indicated for the promotion of chinese language and culture. you know it's been really remarkable in terms of our efforts to internationalize both our curriculum as well as our student experiences and to give students the opportunity to connect very deeply and richly with china and understanding chinese practices as it relates to business, as it relates to pharmaceutical practices as it relates to education, as it relates to art and music. it's been just, from my perspective, not only humbling, but just a beautiful opportunity for students to be able to connect with universities in china, with faculty and students and understanding the differences that lie in our

cultures, but also if terms of understanding the finish in terms of understanding the kinds of practices that we have that's more westernized versus asian in nature. and so the confucius institute has been good for xavier. it's not only enabling our students to -- and faculty -- to study abroad and faculty to engage in research internationally, across discuss palins but in addition -- disciplines, but in addition to that it also builds upon the kind of international experiences that we are affording our students to understand how they are being developed in such a way to not only become global citizens but also to become global professionals. ..

which is an event held on the margins of the white house countering violent extremism summit. we have in the room today several foreign delegations. official government delegations. civil society delegations. we have here several individuals who presented at white house itself. several people who presented at state department portion that followed at ministerial yesterday. i want to thank all of you for coming. i want to thank our audience, with our cameras as well.

it is a pleasure to have you all. this could not be a more timely discussion. if you're boeing to talk about -- going to talk about countering violent extremism, if you want to talk about the various counter radicalization programing which is a broad front of programing what you need to discuss is what to do with returnees, what to do with the dropouts. not everybody is someone who will be able to be rehabilitated. not everybody will be someone who can be effectively reintegrated into society in different way. but some people can. on top of that, we have an obligation to deal with the fact that most people, even those who can be prosecuted, and are convicted, and served time in prison, the vast majority of these are not going to serve life terms. like most hardened criminals. they are eventually going to be released. and so it is not soft or weak as

a counter radicalization as cve tool to talk also about how to rehabilitate and reintegrate people, either once they come out of prison certainly once they are in prison. yesterday's ministerial, at one point was discussing how prisons are serving as universities for terrorism as one official put it. but also those who are returning now especially from syria and iraq. i was talking to someone other day. why don't you just not let these people back into your countries? the ask if you have legitimate passport holders there are in most countries legal impediments not allowing people back home. on top of that people will come back home and find out they're home after they're home sharing issues and data on travel in europe in particular. a lot of progress is being right now to be sure. some of you in this room are working on this now.

the fact is you will find some of these people at home. many countries already do so what do we do with these people? how can we rehabilitate reintegrate those people who fit into categories might be possible. there will have to be vetting. there will have to be some type of connect tivity to law enforcement and intelligence to know you're not missing something. there is some concern someone might at later date be further radicalized, reradicallized. think of the kouachi brothers five years later. these are things that we have to think about in advance. at the washington institute we've been focusing on these issues almost a decade. we've been holding presidential task forces including one that led to this task force on confronting ideology of radical extremism, rewriting the narrative. fighting idealogical battle missing link in u.s. strategy to counter violent extremism. many of our studies and event.

it is our pressure to -- pleasure to hold this event with three uniquely qualified individuals. i'm matt levy washington institute counterterrorism program, a recovering as i like to put it, u.s. government official. i have with us here we have three really wonderful panelists. my right your left. doug stone, retired marine general. someone who oversaw all theater inteargation and detention in iraq during the post-2006 surge and is credited with changing the u.s. military approach to detention policy there, something that he did without some, not without significant push back from others. it was a brave thing to do which he did with great success. he now works with the u.n. uniquely directly involved in developing the rome memorandum the seminal best practices compendium for rehabilitation and reintegration of violent extremist offenders. dougs and i have had pleasure

at least i had the pleasure co-hosting some panels and doug, it's a pleasure to have you here. immediately to my right, you have the lord mayor of in denmark and prominent player in the rehabilitation program. you might have read about it in "the new york times." heard about it on npr. it garnered significant international attention through its effort to prevent radicalization by improving life skills and strengthening people's networks. i'm pleased not only to have you here mr. mayor, but key people from your town, your team. thank you all for being here and what you do. we look forward to hearing about this really creative cutting-edge program. last but absolutely not least we have very privileged to my long-time friend, the e.u. counterterrorism coordinator a senior belgium official. he previously served as director

of justice and home affairs and council secretariat of european union from 1995 to 2007. among many other senior positions. if you want to understand the state of terrorism, counterterrorism. countering violent extremism in europe, one-stop shop one meeting you need to have is with giles. i'm very, very pleased to have you all here. we will start with gils. we'll go to yakov and doug. i will offer a few summary remarks. we'll go into questions and answers. you will see we do have hashtags available. hashtag for this event is ftf return washington institute, the mayors. please feel free to tweet, retreat and contribute to the discussion. with no further adieu the honorable giles dikerko. >> good afternoon.

i'm really delighted to be here. thanks a lot, matt for the invitation. to the washington institute. i'm, impressed by what you said but you said equally fine to be honest on the subject we'll discuss all experts. i will try to explain that we need to learn much more myself, in the first place but europe because we're at beginning of defining policies in this respect. there are several experts i will develop but i think we are not there yet. so i'm here to learn. thank you for making it possible for me to meet the mayor. i haven't met him so far. and it is probably one of the few experiences which is always mentioned as a successful experience, i'm eager to learn more. indeed these foreign fighters

or foreign terrorist fighters is not a new phenomenon but a scale is huge in europe. and therefore the challenge for us is equally huge. i don't have the latest figures. until recently i was mentioning something like three thousand europeans went to syria and iraq. director of interpol says 5,000. let's make a compromise around 4,000. this is huge. probably we have so far, by and large, 20 to 30% of them who have already returned. why is it a challenge? we know, i don't need to develop that, because they are brainwashed in syria. they learn how to use kalashnikov and build a bomb. most likely raised the level terrorism violence significantly and they will have developed a

huge network. there is nothing like fighting alongside others. it creates a lot of friendship. network later on. the challenge is, it is extremely difficult to collect evidence that, or children or teenagers, young adults, went there and to fight' longside al nusra or daesh. we're not present in in syria. a bit more in iraq. we don't cooperate with the assad regime. and unless they leave electronic traces and the good news until recently they were pretty sophisticated so it was not easy to collect picture of themselves with a flag of daesh, how to prove that they were involved in the terrorist organization that has committed actually a crime. and consequence will be, that

they will be probably not many convictions. so far, if you take the french case, they have 1200. not all of them have been to syria and iraq but are affected by the phenomenon. there are only 100 cases in court for the time-being, which that is leading to the difficulty collecting evidence. even if we have evidence, that they joined the group, most likely the sentence won't be very high because once again we want to have a lot to show to the court and therefore we have to find alternative and one of the message i try to convey in the last months in europe to the ministers of justice and ministers of interior is of course we need to find alternative solutions, rehabilitation mainly but we have to avoid maximum possible

to send them to criminal court because sending them to a jail we know jails, prisons are a major incubator of radicalization would not help. first, if we send that message it will be difficult to get them back in europe without, later that we don't have government policy in this respect. we have different approach among the member states and the risk there ever is some of those who would like to get back because they are afraid to get back to be sent to a jail, might look for another hot spot. we know that one of the main mistakes we collectively have done, when the russian withdrew from afghanistan we have not dealt with the mujahideen and they stayed between pakistan and afghanistan, and it has created a lot of problems.

so, what do we do with returnees? what should we do? some of them we have indeed to assess, and that takes time, a team to assess the dangerousness on a case-by-case basis of all those who are returning which of course requires that we are able to identify them and we know that it is difficult to put a figure but very few of them may commit a terrorist attack or fall into violence. a lot may be disowe solution, or -- dissolution or post-traumatic stress disorder where they have been confronted with terrible a lot of beheading of killings. so, some who went there because they had the feeling that they needed to fight to support the

syrian spring and who may have the feeling they have fulfilled their duty as a muslim. may just need to be reintegrated into society and therefore needs social support. where we have evidence that they committed a crime, war crime or crime against humanity or just serious crime, it is obvious we need to send them in court, finally where we don't have evidence, and, i'm afraid it will be quite high number, what to do, monitor them discretely but we know it is predemanding in terms of resource. i'm told in order to discretely observe someone 24/7 it requires at least 20 persons from a security service. so it is much beyond what many of our members can afford. so we have some experience in europe and we always hear about

ahuos, germans through the program, the channel program or ibana, will have other experience in the past with neo-nazis, with gangs with sects. we can build on all this but my main point is that we're not there yet. what i see and it was interesting in the white house two days ago i had a brainstorming with the mayor of vilvade and mayor of rotterdam. from what you hear from their experience it is a bit simplistic but i think it is quite accurate, there is a phenomenon a bit similar to the, belonging to a sect that someone is the link of someone with the family, with friends, with society is more and more isolated. the second aspect is the

software, the ideology, seems to be several, and i will come back to that. therefore any solution needs to require this response to these two elements. first to reconnect the person with the family, with the society. that would be one set of solutions. the other one is to deprogram the person and work on the other issues. so i just want to mention six elements which i think would be interesting to discuss in the q&a session. the first, indeed my feeling so far that in europe, we don't have we have not been able to define common criminal policy with respect to the returnees nor have we adapt the -- adapted criminal law accordingly. maybe oversimplistic, and correct me, you have on one hand

danish approach which the danes try to convince the citizens to get back home and to undertake rehabilitation program. that would be one extreme and on the other side you may have a brittish, more repressive approach, as long as we keep them away the more we keep them away, the better. so i think it would be good to define a more common policy and the good news is that the 28 ministers of justice have decided to brainstorm on this in two weeks time at their regular meeting but we need to also adapt criminal law i think to explore to what extent and when do you try to bring someone in a rehabilitation program. it could be either alternative to prosecution and, again it is linked to the the evidence problem. we have enough evidence but, do we do that at instead of a prosecution. or do we do that during the

trial and we offered the person an alternative, either to go to jail or, to undertake rehabilitation program. and, i would say not or if someone is sentenced and is in jail we have to design better mechanism not only to voluntary offer something which could lead to a reduction of the sentence but to prepare the person to reintegrate in to society because, i think, i haven't looked at the sentencing in europe, but in the best scenario of someone where we have the evidence and so forth, and no -- membership to a terrorist organization will lead to something like 10 years. so after 10 years, if we have not been effective in jail the person will just be even further radicalized. so that is the first need i think it's a top priority for

europe. the second point it is more a question, and we had a short brainstorming before the session, is on the role of the ideology. we traditionally distinguish between deradicalization and disengagement. the first is to try to change someone's idea of deradicallized. it would be not to change someone's i.d. or someone's behavior so that he can keep his radical ideas, maybe but it is, you should not use violence to impose your ideas. so what is if that we want to achieve? that is the question. the second one, is rile -- really true that ideology plays a role in which respect? the french and it is quite interesting because until two or three years, the french were not investing a lot in cve as you

call it or in prevention of radicalization but since two, three years they have invest a lot and they try, with errors but they try to develop smart policy. one experience in paris is to use quite salafist, to deconstruct the jihad and salafist. does it work? does it work? i don't know i will say. more a question than a statement. but that that leads to my person that conviction we have to do much more in europe to develop, use the word of a former french president, a european, islam not an islam in europe. in some of our embassies we have a an imam who even do not speak the language of the country. when i was appointed i remember in the netherlands, the language of imam not speaking dutch.

they come from abroad they import, or export a very conservative interpretation of islam which is not contextualized and may create an environment. if you look at the situation in belgium, the members say which has highest number of foreign fighters in syria and iraq per capita it's mainly besides convert, mainly people from moroccan descent. may be a few from turkish descent. why is it so? maybe because the ministry of religious affairs in turkey is more involved than the organization in belgium while on the american side it is less organized. so, that is something i think we need to ask ourselves more. the third one, based on experience is how do we improve the way the intelligence community shares the information

it has with the local police on the one hand and the social workers on the other hand? it's not the tradition in europe that the service shares much with the central police and even less with local police and it would never the less be extremely useful because a it may tell you something why reason this person went into iraq or syria in the first place and may therefore help the social workers to design an effective response. we heard during the brainstorming earlier in the day, for instance, that the dutch have set up a system they call it info box. where the different players including the social the ministry in charge of social affairs, share scientific information. they have to keep this completely confidential and but get access to the information. that may be something we should

expend. the fourth element from what i have seen, it is of critical importance to have disciplinary teams. i'm not convinced that all member states to assess the dangerousness with the regime. not only intelligence community the police psychologists sociologists and that is critical. the next aspect which seems to be necessary is coaching. mentoring, and i understand from the experience in ahous, that makes the difference. someone who can spend an eye-to-eye, individual discussion time to understand coach, help advise the person and identify exactly on a tailor-made basis what can help the person to reintegrate into society. but it is time-consuming and i suppose it costs something. i asked you earlier what the

cost of all this is. and finally the problem of prisons and we will hear more about what leaders in respect the rome mem dan rum in the global consultation forum and excellent document and excellent ideas. i even read it in detail. my question is, and you said does it work? how do you measure the effectiveness of these 25 good practices. what seems critical, and there is huge debate in europe on how to handle radicals and especially returnees in prison. early detection, that requires we train prison staff to detect as early as possible signs of radicalization. and it is really a challenge because based on the studyies

made by a good expert in france, the new generation of radical salafists. hide themselves. they try to avoid dethey're not stupid. they use the religions allow to you hide your convictions in order to mislead the authority. and therefore training is important. develop intelligence in prisons. i'm, i don't know whether in all member states there are sufficient link between prison staff and intelligence service and it is a two-way process. i know that in some countries they are developing that relationship. the second aspect which is more and more discuss especially in france, they have a very high number of returnees sent to jail, the question where to put

them? they should be concentrated in one single place or sped around the different prisons. how do we segragate them from the other inmates? we know that this is a major factor. if you take the most recent order of attack in europe europe,c-aulbali namuosh in copenhagen. in these four cases they were petty criminals got radicalizes being in contact with radical salafists or self-proclaimed imams. this is problem, just take numbers in france it is difficult to know how many muslims are in prison because the legislation does not allow to collect that statistic in france but it seems to be more than 60% of the inmates.

and, the question is, do they have enough chaplain, muslim chaplains. that is the not case compared with the number of catholics. that needs to be increased significantly because they may play an important role, if not just building trust. that requires that they be trained themselves and provided with good argument to challenge the, the rhetoric of the salafists. and finally, what do we do in prison? should we set up compulsory program? should we leave it open and voluntary? that is something we needs to be defined. so i will stop at this stage just to say that it's a huge challenge, as i've said. we're not there yet. we need to refine our policy and maybe define more common standards in europe. outside prison and in prison but

i'm, i'm thankful for your invitation because i hope it will enlighten me further. thanks a lot. [applause] >> well-done. >> there we go. well, first of all, thank you for this opportunity to speak here today. it is a great pleasure and honor to be here and thanks, thank you to the washington institute and to you, matt. there has been in recent months a tremendous interest in, the way that we tried to handle returnee fighters in in and around aarhus and it's quite

nice to get more than i think we have more than 200 international media asking us what are you actually doing? it is quite nice to have more than a 30-second sound bite to explain some of our philosophy and our intentions in our approach. just to set the stage, might not be all of you who knows where denmark is. [laughter] it is right there. . .

where we have the highest number of deprived areas which is one of the important things to focus on. how do we prevent that extremism there are three things at stake obviously there is a policing issue where we need to have surveillance and make sure our

intelligence is working effectively. we have to investigate and prosecute and so on. but this is our main focus as a municipality. the police and intelligence services are focusing on the first two and on the third and i will return to that in a minute. but our primary focus is on early prevention. and we do our most make sure that we are moving as early as possible when we recover young people on a path of radicalization or if we encounter young people in the risk of starting a path towards radicalization. so this is our focus. just a couple of perspectives on the organization of our efforts

because i think that's important for understanding it. we have had since the 1970s it very concrete organization which we call s. sbe is social services, schools and police. and they have a legislative framework and they have a responsibility to communicate and share information and intervene very early mostly in terms of the sort of ordinary crime prevention but also in the development of the models of the issues on the focus of radicalization. we've built this model that we are using on the aftermath of

the bombings of madrid and london. we were worried for good reason that we did not have enough focus on young people on the path of radicalization and they choose to pull them in another direction that we are building it on existing structures and therefore also in terms of funding, we have easier access to allocate existing resources towards this intervention and area. building on this model we formulated the model dealing

with the organizational level. this is the risk of triangle which is a will just give you a couple close to real life because that is what makes most sense. there are a number of risk factors that needed to be encountered for the process of radicalization and involves a number of push factors. on the other hand, do have a number of factors that will move people from the red and yellow towards the green area and i will get into what we actually

do in real life but it's about the purpose and meaning of life and having an identity and so on and so forth, also known factors. our center of this is called at the center house. it's a unit that is organized in the police but it's the employees in that house that's a very closely connected to the municipality and the main departments in my administration which is the children and youth department and the social and employment department.

this is most likely the point of entry for any initiatives in this field. so they have a hotline parents can call. all of our employees are trained and educated in knowing that this is where you can go for information and if you have a concern regarding a often a young male but also we've had a few girls traveling this is the point of entry. they have the opportunity and the obligation to work in a number of ways. they will do general workshops in the schools, and the local communities where they educate parents and employees in the

municipalities in the signs that young people send signals when they are on a path of radicalization. so they do presentations also to raise awareness in local communities saying this is an issue that you need to be aware of. this is an issue that you need to address locally and be aware of. and as i said they will do seminars for the public and for professionals. when we have a case they have a number of different instruments they can use. we have a group of mentors and i don't know how it is internationally, that in denmark most solutions to any problems these days are assigned a mentor

and obviously it's very important that the people that we assign as mentors are very educated in handling young people. they know the psychology, they know the risk factors, they know as much as possible and they have the personal skills needed to connect to the young people. they don't have a lot of trust in their authority. so we need to have a very special people handling this task. they would also do surveys and risk assessments and this is all in cooperation. these are the social workers it's people from the police psychiatrists and psychologists. so it's a broad range of different competencies that we

bring in and used to make these assessments to make sure that we have the right intervention. and we also offer. networks especially in connection with our efforts in the contingency program for the syrian fighters. we expect that the parents are in despair. for good reason they are very worried about the young people when they go to syria. many of them have been killed. i will give you the number in a few minutes. we advise them to take part in a parent network where we educate them how should they communicate with the children while they are away in syria? what can they do in terms of

influencing their children to come back and the reason we want them to come back is that the longer they are away the more damage to the return. when we can help them and how they could show to communicate the traditional or normal way of communicating with the that the father of the family will yell and be very angry at their son and tell him you must come back and it must be now here. that might not be the most effective way to communicate because they have been alienated. they have cut off communication relations with their parents in the process of radicalization.

so, you need to reconnect. this sort of education and information is shared with the parents. and then we have a specific exit program building on some of the same knowledge that we have for exiting gang members from gangs. it hasn't been used that much but we have had a few instances where this has been useful because they need to change the environment and they have difficulties exiting them themselves. to make it even more close to reality in the specific case this is a young man at the age of 18 with a somali background living in a suburb.

he's attending the first year of high school. it fits the age. one year earlier he'd begun to attend a mosque in the west. he becomes a member of a specific group in the mosque of the muslim youth center that is a radical organization within the mosque and becomes increasingly radicalized and also becomes increasingly passive in his studies and starts gradually to withdraw from work at the afterschool supermarket. they start to notice that he's changing his personality. he's changing from being an

outspoken, kind, dedicated person to becoming very introvert and shoving a sort of withdrawn personality. in march, 2013 companies seen several times with other members of the muslim youth center and spectators to a trial where two brothers were eventually convicted for supporting terrorism. the spectators wouldn't stand when the judge entered the room as they didn't recognize the danish court system. in april a month later, his academic scales are now plummeting and he's not paying any he is not paying any attention to his studies at all. this is an observation from the high school. the supermarket manager confronts him because he has an absence from work and at this confrontation he quit saying i

cannot work in a store where their support on the shelves and where you sell alcohol. after that, the manager and who is a muslim himself is disturbed finding out that he has completely changed his facebook profile and with no in and number of religious citations and aggressive lyrics. in may of 2013 this person leaves for syria with a friend and the family is left in shock and insecurity. initial talks with this point of entry, the info house and with the parents, they are advised to participate in the parent network and they are quite often participating. and after he returns, and a little bit, they continue to be

part of this network. on the 24th of november, 2013, he returns to denmark and his father contacts us through the info house immediately on return. and the person here is physically committed mentally emotionally exploded. he is open, friendly, and repeatedly says i just want my old life back. and he appears grateful for the reception on his return and many of the signs of radicalization are gone upon the return, their return, so he's introduced to a mentor and subsequently also is reintroduced to his high school

with some reluctance they were not very keen of having the returned fighters in the high school but they are persuaded to let him back in under the conditions of continuous mentoring and counseling by the caseworker and a psychologist. and the mentoring so far has been successful. and obviously we are following him very closely. this is one case but it shows to me anyway that it is actually possible to do something here and to have an approach where obviously the first thing we tell the returning fighters because it is important to have an open and honest dialogue with these people because they don't have any trust. the first thing you say to that is if we find out, if we learn you have committed a crime we

will do anything in our power to convict you. and this we must do as authorities. this is our obligation and you need to know this. and we will tour you honestly. but if we cannot prove you've committed anything wrong or you haven't committed anything wrong, we will do our most to help you reintegrate into society so we need those two legs to stand on in my opinion in these efforts. just a very few numbers we have had about 150 approaches and instances in the last four years. the profile is 15 to 25 years. most of them in terms of radicalization are extremist and

we have quite a few right-wing extremists also where we use this program and very, very few radicalized which might be quite interesting looking at history is this more acceptable but that is a different discussion. and most of these cases have been dealt with through counseling or the counseling of the counselors. as of now, we have eight persons in our mentoring program and the seven are finishing, seven are currently being mentor to. we have one person as of now loosely attached to the exit program and we have one unsuccessful mentoring. so these are just a few of the

numbers. in terms of security and fighters -- syrian fighters we have people from december 12 until now traveling to syria. five of them have been reported killed and 16 actually 17 returning in the last few days have returned into still are known -- ten are still known to be in syria. very different backgrounds. many of them danish citizens with a somalia crowd, turkish background, palestinian, jordanian, sudanese danish, ethnic danish background from an exterior pitch four of them have converted to islam. so it's a very mixed and there is no specific set of parameters that you can use to identify these young people.

so this is one of the things that i think is important in our efforts. there isn't one relation between the risk factors and who becomes radicalized which makes it a difficult but it's very important to understand. so this is just a few insights to our efforts in the social affairs they have done a number of publications in this which is available online and we also try to publish something ourselves to share the information. it's important to understand that all young people want to have a happy life. they all want to have good

experiences and want to reach some of the goals they set out for themselves in life and build a family build a life command one of my mottos is my biggest task is most important for me is to create the framework conditions that make the citizens able to build build a better life in the way that they dream of and give them the best possibilities to do that. so this is also a matter of creating opportunity for people in general to remove the base that it's kept into when young people are pushed or driven or inspired to enter the path of radicalization.

moscow. i have to tell you there are a lot of people in this room. i used to say i know a lot of older people in this room and now because i'm at that age i refer to you as wise so there's a lot of wise people in this room and some are good friends. i'm representing the united nations in a very focused effort but you understand how they fit together.

it's rare to see my name with the general on it anymore. i was excited about that and i felt like i should have lost weight or something. but i don't normally see at board and i see a doctor that is sort of the academician which i do see mostly with the un you just see mr.. and mr. toomey is the more important title because like you, we are a member of a very big clue in the community and so the topics that we are wrestling with today really affect us all in fact i have to go back and tell you that some eight years ago when i was picked up with an assignment to take over in iraq and to take over take over all of the interrogation and detention i was surprised. i thought my country had done a great job of breaking out in separating the intelligence and

separating the care and custody of prisoners. that's why even when i looked at the 18th 19000 detainees that we had in the 1,000 person areas, why then were they cutting each others eyes and going after each other and why then were they meeting and talking about very very radical perspectives and planning about where they might take office? why was all that happening? we were on addressing a small component of the issue. so i jumped to being an academician for a second and we slept in and with every individual on a battery of questions that would take us all day to talk with you individually we began to study them and my first observation is do not assume what you are hearing on a global basis is necessarily accurate. do not let the headlines necessarily grab you. from the un perspective we deal

with multiple countries today who come to ask and ask for assistance and in fact we gave them that assistance but one of the first things we ask and involve ourselves with is an assessment. what really is the issue and so let me jump back to iraq. when we looked at the numbers we found that clearly only 4% of the 20,000 that we had had a strong core, really deep secret value ideological limitations. 80% were unemployed. they have been intimidated. i could go back and tell you what their jobs were, how many kids they have why they were married, etc. but it was a bit astonishing to me that after looking at the research and then looking at the reality on the ground, they didn't seem the same. it didn't seem that there were 20,000 hard-core ideologues

doing things. so then i backed up and reached out to my good friend. this is by the way from baghdad and in saudi arabia i asked them what would you do if you were me and they said i don't know. but here's the suggestion why don't you think about working with those that may be on the extreme. maybe there's nothing you can do with that 4% and maybe there's a lot you can do for the others. so in fact we incorporated our own have incorporated our own program along with other programs and at the time across the globe they are where i think about five of these kinds of programs out there. some had actually been started in some detail. but when we've reached out we gathered a lot of information from a lot of people and we begin to bring them back in and here was our approach and a little of the lessons that we've learned and i'm going to roll

right from this into the memorandum. because it was the wrong memorandum number and then there was the united nations responds to this kind of thinking. what did we learn? we learned that individuals are not necessarily committed to an extreme ideology for life. it may be temporal. so the question is can they be migrated back into something else? the next question you have to ask yourself is if they are that we should they stay in prison the rest of their lives is that the right answer and of course all of us are in the rule of law but that does not make sense. so then you know if they are not going to remain in prison and where are they going to ask they are going home and in fact they are all going home. there are some exceptions but they are all coming back. so if they are all coming back what does that mean you have to? the answer is you have to work with the individuals to understand them sometimes

individually, sometimes in a group you have to allow for the changes in the definition hopeful for their education and be able to articulate what they are going to do when they get back. you have to find the community that they are going to and ask them to receive them back to be a part of the process to bring them back to be part of the celebration of them not coming back, to comply with or not the rule of law whether it be tribal or government or state. so as you think about that, then we backed up after this and with the insightful leadership of individuals like the ambassador who is currently the counterterrorism coordinator in the united asians, i'm sorry, in the department of state. she supported along with other nations what we are doing in the un and what we said was we need to bring a lot of countries together and we need to ask them

do they have the same fundamental philosophy. i want to tell you it is exciting to be in washington on this topic. sometimes i'm not always excited that i am genuinely excited we have people here because i can tell you you would not have put in a conference room half the conference room individuals who would sit down and talk about this topic a few years ago in fact i have to tell you and i think that you will probably support this, they would look at us as if we were not speaking the same language. but for those of us from eight to ten or maybe even 12 years ago, we knew that ultimately this rise would have been and we did have don't have to deal with this on a global basis. so with that kind of leadership and support, we brought 35 40 countries together and i think we have now had a total of maybe 60. we all sat down in a series of meetings that took us almost a year to cause we wanted to get the language right and we

developed and wrote what is now known as the memorandum of good practices for rehabilitation and reintegration of the extremist offenders. this came out of the paper and was then endorsed by and wonderfully supported by the global counterterrorism forum. it was the final meeting when this was all adopted and was done in italy and from. we had tremendous influence from a lot of countries and these 25 best practices. let me give you the kind of hit footnotes the notes of this independent courage to look it up because it has since been used as a pioneer effort and at least five other countries and programs that started since and i think today we are looking and celebrating at about 14 programs that are alive and well on the globe so this is doing well. we have people engaged with them out only on the country level

but also down at the community level. so, this document talks about the goals and objectives and let me say at the offset if there's there's any one thing and there are people in this room that helped with this but helps with this but if there is anything we would all agree on and that we say all the time about the memorandum is that it is one size does not fit all. i only know one program on the globe that is practicing all 25 of these and got measured with some of these practices don't culturally accept from the government's standpoint it and they are not even a part of the society. succumb it is a compendium and carries with it a message that there is hope and a methodology that actually can work but it starts with a message about what is your goal and intent and you no doubt for those of you that have been here the last couple days heard this sort of what are

we doing is this criminal, what is this? that the suffering you have to go through. there isn't a book you can go to that is going to give you the answer. it has to be just as it was for me. you have to study the problem locally and you have to know if so well that you know what will and will not work and they take the guidance from others and develop a subset of this for yourself. but the first one is goals and objectives and the second one that we adopted and i didn't mention to you but i am now that i am now a reserve california cop so i spent about 50% of my time driving on the un issues and about 50% of my time worrying about this issue as it relates to california and some of the speakers yesterday were with me for a three-day panel in the state of california last week so they have to be tired. but at the end of the day when we are what we are doing is the same thing. how do we come and the mayor said that while, how do we

prevent this from happening, how do we get in front of this issue and how do we camp down the recruiting that is likely to continue unless we do something and by the way do something wrong and you are help recruiting. important metrics. so we decided to do this in the context of prison and in fact prisons are very interesting. prisons across the globe are interesting. we've been asked to participate. prisons are a portion of the system that is used to correct the behavior or hopefully at least forestall the behavior by taking them out of the society. but prisons themselves are not always designed with this in mind. so as you think about it as it relates to your country got the prisons are a portion of in my opinion but not the only solution. the next one is what are the different roles of different

actors? it isn't just a law-enforcement officer or military person, it isn't just a philosopher or psychologist or social worker. it is a composite of a lot of different people, some who will pop up out of the community and he will say only macro that is a great idea and in fact some of the programs of the longest lasting and the best run on the globe were word from private citizens who stood up and said i know how to solve this problem in my community. i know how to do this. would you support me and the country and the community was wise enough to watch them and bring them up and elevate them and of those volunteers, those societal volunteers stepped up and actually provided the ongoing guidance for the community. as with different actors. do not think that it rests in the office of the solutions. or don't say i have a book.

somebody's written a book i will read it and i know about ten authors i could identify right now. i have a thousand bucks and it isn't in the thousand bucks either. good ideas and principles are that you will have to write your own book is my guess. then there's the entire concept of hell do you reintegrate and again to my point they are coming home. they may die in prison, they may die elsewhere but they are coming home. so the question then becomes what's your responsibility to those that are there and to those that are younger and younger who will soon be older and older until they are wise. what's going to have been? that is the responsibility for governing leaders like the mayor, countries like the ministers that are in this room. last there's just a hand wave at other relevant fields. i would encourage you if you have the time to take a look at

the road in random. it's been translated into many other languages and it is used quite extensively now as a set of guidelines. please take it as one of the many things you can get your hands on as you deal with this issue. in summary or moving towards a bit of a summary what i want to be clear about is that this alone and the problems today are not the same as the problems of last year. the population is in the same way that it is evil isn't the same. so everything has changed a little bit on the margins if you were on the move eight years ago or ten years ago you would hear the echo of the same concept concept boiling and bubbling and going over and over and there are people here who've been studying this a long time and they are probably saying e-echo. i've heard it. so there is there's a discovery process for many people going

on. but the reality of this is there are still some very troubling and unsettling issues that from the united nations perspective we work with these countries on and let me share with you what they have shared with me. and i'm going to guess -- i don't know how many in the capacity i've been to but 20 or so and in the next month i will be in separate countries dealing with this and i will have i. have the opportunity to do one-on-one with isis members who are returning to get some primary research done. but here's what i heard. at the prison setting the present setting is good but it's not inadequate. people come into and go out of the going out of the community. so extending the concepts to the community are vital. there is a vital role for intelligence and there is one memorandum that calls for that in intelligence and calls her the importance and good police work and corrections officers work in the prison. but the reality is you have to be careful with intelligence. if i am making friends with you

because i simply want to know what's happening, my friendship will last into the truth won't bear out. some intelligence is imported is important and then i want to stop and comment it remind you some of the most near tragic accidents that have happened on the globe have been stopped by family members of individuals who told it that in the two cases family members were going to do this and we listened to it so that intelligence is vital that why was the trust they are? the point isn't just about intelligence which is critical but it's about the trust you must build in order to get that relationship. it's about assembling the subject material experts not just one but multiple and listening to some, not all. subject material experts like you the globe has an interesting party of individuals. there are conferences that bring 300 or so individuals together who care about this topic and they have become a wealth of

subject material experts not that they apply directly in the community that there is an idea that might. that's what i learned from the un participants. i've learned that there are going to have to be alternative eating some of him to let me use the word sentencing, a way to adjudicate if it is perceived to be a crime they did or did not violate the rule of law and if it was violated in that particular country, you have to find a way to add adjudicated as we find everywhere in every country but not every country at adjudicated the same way. so sentencing the programmatic stand all this become a part of the solution that is not the same in every country but they are all trying to do the same thing. there are issues like evidence and law enforcement and white religious motivations and let me go back all the way to my experience in iraq we have more than 200 religious leaders

working in a facility for that facility for the 20,000 we do not have any other programs anywhere on the globe that do not inculcate that discussion about beliefs. so that's a part of the process and we welcome that in every nation that we have engaged with every nation that we have been with you don't want to use the word pleaded that asked very intensely what should we do about the returning foreign fighters? what should we do? in iraq when we were there we had about 79 separate countries that showed up. i can't even tell you in my time in afghanistan how many there were but it's probably at least that or more. i don't know today but i'm told it's 84 separate nations have contributed to the effort in

syria. so, those nations are getting these individuals back and there's nobody sitting in this room that cares about this who won't i-india have that reality to deal with. so that program is yours to develop and from a united nations perspective all i can call you as you is every country be filled with has expressed deep concern about how to deal with this not necessarily because of the individual although there is vast but it's really a societal issue. what impact could that individual have on the country's governance on their rule of law and on the citizenry and the others? so the tools and practices that we are seeing that are in that memorandum as an example and in the mind of the individuals here i think on balance represent the best hope to the future and if i can give you any counsel, and i see this doing most of you have

probably already done this it is get the e-mail address of the point the plaintiff contacted almost everybody in this room because in this room with the right motivation is the right answer where to go forward and it's been my honor to be a part of the united nations effort to help the globe drive this forward. my director jonathan lucas is the head and is 100% dedicated. i can tell you countries he worked his heart out for that the just as we were boarding the plane to go in with an engagement of the country collapsed. that's how hard we have been working and he has been working to support this. so, for jonathan who i wish could have been here to share this with you and all the other members who've been working with us and for the work that you've done and great leaders like those that are in this room, thank you for being a breath of fresh air and a great hope for

the future. [applause] we have an amazing gathering here today. we have a lot of people to think whether it is the ambassador of state or john lucas doing phenomenal work on this right here. there's a whole bunch of interesting questions some of which you raise for a scandal out of the prison system can be man-made, can we require people to participate in offramp or exit programs short of part of the plea bargain or something. there is one last issue i want to raise that has basically been the issue everyone is talking about this week mostly in a partisan way but let's deal with it in a serious way where is the role of real agenda and i want to be clear i think the president was articulate and saying that .-full-stop there is no question about that but each of the panelists here today and if you are watching or they're

listening to the summit over the past few days, there's been a constant theme and i heard a shift in the president to of past few days in terms of the need to deal not only with the local grievances and the community with the identity issues and seeking adventure but all those cognitive opening issues and also then with what mobilizes people based on that to actually engage in the activity. the muslims worldwide to play a role as so many are. so many in this room are because while this is not about religion per se and it's not about the prospect ready of muslims it is as the president said about people who are engaging in disturbing violent actions in the name of a distortion of islam and most of us non-muslims can't engage in that part of discussion and can't engage in that part of the reintegration

process, can't explain people what is and is not actually part of islam and that has to be part of the answer and i think that's critically important. in part also because i think that to be successful we need to be dealing not only with violence but with radicalism. i am not a big fan of the title countering violent extremism. to me that's a few minutes too late. people are already violent extremists. we are are not getting are asking people when they come back from iraq in syria to deal with the rehabilitation what we're doing is making it early in the process and keeping them off or directing them off the path of radicalization in the first instance as it were and others are dealing with here. we have time for a few questions and i'm going to ask the question to be brief in their answers we can get as many as possible and start right here

>> first i would say i'm so thrilled to see how unworkable the resemblances between our intervention program and doors that i'm enthusiastic because that means it works in multiple countries. i have a question about some of the specifics you gave. 150 50 user to purchase the past four years that they are mixed right wing and muslims lay was curious how many of those are muslim and since we've had such a long experience did any of those leader go fight overseas, so do you have any instances of failure? >> i would have to say most of the 150 approaches are from within the muslim community and i would say that it's about 110

150. we are not quite sure how many of the approaches that we had prior to people leaving and us not being able to prevent them from leaving. but this is the field where there is no guarantees. it's not illegal to have radical thoughts and it's very difficult to give guarantees. so there might have been instances where we tried and failed. but i will see if i can find the numbers for you to be more precise. >> [inaudible]

this isn't on? okay. if you could address directly the very politically sensitive issues and/or talk directly to those who would say in the european political contact us that a necessary part of the solution should be tougher sentencing for example just going to serious and involving yourself with isis should be a serious criminal offense. and obviously talk a bit about the immigration debate because that is a part of what is swirling around this issue now especially because of the terrorist acts in paris and copenhagen in the last months. >> it's definitely something in the process right now of tougher sentences were the sort of sentencing brackets and in many

ways these are young people willing to give their life. they are not going to be very discouraged about what sentence might await them when they come back home. so we need to address the issue in another way also. it might give a slight contribution but it will give a point of entry in assisting the young people upon their the return to cooperate with us because otherwise they will go to prison. but other than that, it's not what will dean both the radicalize or reintegration into society. >> i think under chapter seven of the un charter each and every

member state should be able to investigate, prosecute and convict a syria and iraq joining a terrorist organization and it's important because we needed these in one way to stop them from going there because in europe, we need to start the judicial phase as early as possible so that it can be stopped at the border but the problem that we have had he was in the database but since they had not enough evidence they couldn't get him arrested just to be monitored discreetly so as soon as we could start the judicial phase, then we could mobilize the tool and that is the first element. the second very much in favor to promote the identities to the alternative of prison but i

think it is necessary to send a strong message at the same time because for many of these kids it doesn't even need to help. they are by the thrill and we showed in a book following the kids, they had a pleasure of playing on the internet and thought it was exciting. you have to send a strong message. that's why in france they decided to open a judicial fight to send some sort of message but if we can reduce the number the better and i would repeat what i said. it's difficult to get the evidence of the tourist organization. it's not a crime to have radical ideas or two loose your life with the free syrian army.

>> from the start at the university of maryland. a question for the panelists. the instances in which the private sector organizations are engaging in rehabilitation we have seen private-sector groups start to do and engagements as its interface efforts or the prevention programming are you seeing anyone outside of the government doing rehabilitation work? >> i don't know of a program that does not have been involved. but they will have a government role. i don't know of any that have no government rule. >> we have a few minutes for

questions. >> he's from the iraqi delegation and to rehabilitate the returning fighters who can't come back to the countries maybe it requires a very accurate mechanism and to enlist the priority priorities what is it exactly from your perspective what is your perspective and priorities thank you. >> if i understand the question correctly this might sound a bit strange but basically what we do

when there is a returning fighter we always get information right when they arrive from the families because we've spoken to them prior to the return and we will make a risk assessment of the individual and this is basically based upon some very skilled people that we have working for us and they will sit down one-on-one and have a conversation, challenge them and see where are they at the moment in their lives psychologically, emotionally and so on and so forth. so this is basically a question of skilled people working in this field and this is one person. i mean there are not that many cases, so this is one person but is extremely skilled at doing this.

>> barbarously than from the atlantic council. if each of you could tell me what you got out of the summit and that includes you would be grateful and also a point of clarification did you say that 60% of the prison inmates in europe are muslim? >> in france. >> what does that suggest? >> one question. >> anybody want to answer? no. [laughter] spinnaker that's not a good sign. [laughter] >> like any conference there were some handles that were better than others. you had in one room the most significant gathering of

practitioners, civil society activists, people who are involved in this space in one place at one time and in the ministerial yesterday in particular than i've ever seen. so as important or maybe even more important than what was being said on the podium at any given time of what was happening in the corridors and i think that was tremendously useful. that's always the case. the networking is useful and as you heard already people are hearing the program that they are doing has parallels to something else and things were different. there was a lot that was learned and were all kind of criticisms that went on and that's great because the purpose of this is to spark and initiate the discussion and debate. as i said, the main take away for me was how much more of a willingness there was to talk

about the need to also not instead but also address the ideology that even if it is the case especially now with people going to syria and iraq from europe on a majority of people have a criminal background or both, that it's not ideology that is pushing people in the first instance alternately they are clicking into an ideology and isis in particular is extremely ideological. this tv is important. it's not instead of community issues and grievances very much in conjunction. they are two halves of the same claim. both of them will not be well-off. there's more to say about it but it started a conversation. the pudding of course is always what happens next. if the outcome of this is a call for more research into meetings, then there's going to be a lot of disappointment. but if the deliverables have a push for tangible deliverables

by the ngos and governments alike independently then we could have an opportunity to turn the corner and get more work and focus and funding public and private for these issues and funding is the most significant stumbling block. >> if i remember when i was appointed several years ago it was a lot if not is not only about the global war on terror and now it is about preventing. there is an international consensus on the need to do more in terms of education and mobilizing the civil society and the private sector and i thought it was very nice because it can as you said, maybe seven years ago few people would be in the room and hear you have people from all the nations in the world really keen to do more and

sharing of the main assessment and wanting to do that only the security response but the more soft response. so that's the main aspect. ..