do more and sharing of the main assessment and wanting to do that only the security response but the more soft response. so that's the main aspect. ..

>> what i made yesterday at the white house summit was that the first time ever it was mentioned -- [inaudible] that was the first time ever i must say. i wonder and i would like to hear from your experience -- [inaudible] do they accompany the rehab? >> excellent question. >> our experience is in order for motivating the young people to come back, the mothers play a vital role. i mean they are being brainwashed and on a path to radicalization that make it very difficult to reach -- one of the things that will still melt their hearts are the mothers. so that does put a significant role, but it's about the entire

network and making sure that we connect them to people of importance in their lives on all levels. >> well, my mother always taught me to thank my guests. high mom. so please join me in thanking this wonderful panel. [applause] i want to thank you all for taking the time today. with a lot of work cut out for us. get to it. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> that wraps up this discussion on isis recruitment of foreign fighters. if you missed any of today's event, we will have a leader for in our program schedules and it will be available shortly to view online anytime. just go to our website c-span.org. over the last several weeks "washington journal" has been visiting historically black colleges and universities, and here on c-span2 we have been rearing the segment. join us later today as we wrap up our tour at 6:30 p.m. eastern it is a look at tuskegee university. at 7:15 xavier university of louisiana. tonight it's a special look at the obama administration's cuba policy and what it means for relations with that country.

supporters and opponents of a new policy gathered recently in florida. here's a brief look at some of their comments. >> early on talked about transparency and he had conducted 18 months of secret negotiations that even keep people in the state department didn't learn about it until about three or four months ago. i also said frankly being a cuban i don't know why the president thinks that by talking to raul castro, it would become the future of cuba. the future of cuba belongs to the cuba people. they have to be at the negotiating table. i also said that the president announced a policy that is full of misunderstandings and misconceptions. he read somethings i guess from the teleprompter that are really nonsense, i'm sorry to say. when people say that the president wants to reestablish relations with cuba the united

states have had diplomatic relations with cuba since 1977. the american mission in cuba where the ambassador serves as the largest diplomatic mission in cuba and has been for many years. there are more american diplomats in cuba than french canadians, russians. it's not a lack of diplomatic presence that we are where we are. then i also said and i will stop here that the notion of saying well if something hasn't worked we've got to do something else. well, something else has to work, just because something doesn't work, just because another option. >> that's the preview of tonight's program on u.s. policy toward cuba. it gets under way at eight eastern on c-span. the senate returns monday at 3 p.m. from the weeklong presidents' day holiday break. north dakota republican john hoeven will deliver the annual reading of george washington's farewell address. at 4:30 p.m. it's more work on

the house passed homeland security spending bill which includes provisions to block the president's executive order on immigration. at 5:30 p.m. they will vote on a, for a fourth time to advance the bill. 60 votes are needed. watch live coverage of the senate here on c-span2. the house returns on tuesday, next week they're expected to work on a bill expanding the 529 college savings program and a bill to reform the no child left behind law. they could also take up the homeland security spending bill before current funding expires friday february 27. watch the house live on c-span. some congressional news today. new york governor andrew cuomo announced the state will hold a special election may 5 to fill michael grimms pharmacy. he resigned from the u.s. house after pleading guilty to tax evasion in december. >> here are some of our featured future

programs for this weekend on the c-span networks.

>> find our complete television schedule at c-span.org and let us know what you think about the programs you were watching. call us at (202)626-3400, e-mail us at comments@c-span.org or send us a tweet at c-span hashtag comments. join the c-span conversation like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> now a discussion on this week's train derailment in west virginia that resulted in a crude oil spill and fire and

related oil transportation safety issues. it's from today's "washington journal." >> host: a discussion of rail safety and what can happen when a tanker, an oil tanker, goes off the rails as it did in west virginia last week. joining us is bob deans of the national resources defense council and also from dallas, brigham mccown, former acting administrator of the pipe line and hazardous materials safety administration. mr. mcallen, what happened in west virginia last week and how serious was it? >> guest: well it's obviously sees but anytime we have a transportation accident, derailment loss of also fuel and a hazmat incident it's serious and we need to take a serious. the u.s. uses almost 19 million barrels of crude oil each and every day in our country. as a consequence we have to move it aircraft to move from where

it is extracted from the ground to our refineries. because we are finding oil in places where we lack traditional pipeline infrastructure more and more of this which would assign itself on the railroads. and by rail. and although rail is mainly safe, and you that this type of exponential growth in moving crude oil by rail accidents can happen. they shouldn't happen and we need to do a better job and we've been doing so far. >> host: before we get to bob deans i want to ask you about the editorial this morning and the "washington post." safety goes off the rails. here's the conclusion. industry is pushing for less -- longer timelines to fix its infrastructure. its lobbyist argued that only a tiny fraction of oil transported by rail ever spills or ignites. raising transportation cost for oil companies could crimp

domestic production when crude oil prices are low. these arguments should be rejected, the washington post writes, accidents have become too frequent and are potentially to castrop do you agree with that? >> guest: i do largely agree with the. if you look at the safety record of railroads and, frankly, all transportation methods they are safe. they have become safer each year but even if that accident rate stays the same, if you are transporting 400% more by rail, you are going to have more accidents. and that's something we can't let that happen. i don't subscribe to the theory that it's either cost or safety. you can have both. we need both and the iraqi people number one, they expect oil to get to the terminals, oil to get refined, to get to the gas tanks and expect it to be done safely. >> host: bob deans is also with us. is with the natural resources

defense council, and mr. dean's, do you have an issue with oil being transported via trains? >> guest: we do have a problem. what's happened is we are now producing 12.5 million barrels a day in this country of but one product which is more petroleum than whatever presenting time in our history. as brigham said, a lot of that is being moved by rail when it is coming from areas like north dakota that don't have the pipeline infrastructure in place. so as a result, heck, suggested we're moving about 10,000 take cars a year of will. last year more than 40 times that much. a lot of this is for one thing the kind of product we're moving. oil from shale is more explosive than conventional crude oil. the industry can reduce the dangers of that explosion by investing in vertical stabilizers to take some of the gases out but a lot of the

producers and north dakota have not done that so we're putting a dangerous kind of crude oil on these trends. what are we putting them in a lot of these take cars were designed decades ago not for this purpose. the national transportation safety board warned us about 25 years ago. the obama administration is saying it's time to phase out those cards that were stronger and more durable cars in place. we need to do that. finally, where is it going through? this oil is going all over the country. the train that exploded in west virginia was on its way from north dakota to yorktown. yorktown, virginia, so to get to east coast refineries. on route it's going through small towns, municipality of localities. they don't have the equipment the training, the chemical form in place to deal with one of these disasters. all three of those things need to be addressed. >> host: is this in a sense an argument for an xl pipeline? >> guest: it's not an argument for an excellent pipeline for

two reasons. number one, pipelines themselves are risky. we've had nearly 6000 pipeline blowouts or legs or just the past two decades that have spilled 100 million gallons of toxic crude oil or other hazardous liquids or rivers, lakes, fields and streams. most of it has never been cleaned up so that's a problem. keystone xl pipeline is a plan to take cemeteries oil on the planet pipe it through the rest of america to refineries in the gulf coast much of which will be sent overseas for export. it's not a plan to help this country. it's about big profits for big oil. it needs to be denied. >> host: should standards for these railroad cars the increased? >> guest: well to point. number one i completely disagree on keystone pipeline and the fact is the environmental lobby they don't like rail but it is a pipelines are safer, but then they don't like pipeline. we have to deal with reality and

depoliticize the situation. anytime you these emotional talking points about 30 oil or this or that it's all a bunch of bunk and we need to move beyond it because it doesn't help our safety. it undermines safety blocking these types of projects. number two years ago i called for increased tank standards. the tank car standards we have, they date back to the 1960s. they need to be updated. if you look at in the industry in our country, we've gone through a series of technological revolutions, yet rail still kind of does what they been doing for a very long time. we can do better that the country has been focused on how to make the package or a tank are more robust. we are to be asking the question why can't the railroads keep the cars on their track. if we can prevent the accident from occurring in the first place, we don't have to get into this debate about is the tank

are strong enough or armored enough so that doesn't spill its contents. >> guest: i agree that we do need to improve safety on rail but i do want to address his point about the keystone situation. this is some of the dirtiest oil on the planet, that's not my opinion. that's the result of the state department houses that showed that from the well to the exhaust pipe this oil is 17% more carbon intensive more of a carbon pollution that is driving climate change. the state department found that's the equivalent of putting almost 5.7 million additional cars on the road which is about the number of cars in the state of pennsylvania. we would have to for every car in the state of pennsylvania to offset the additional carbon pollution coming from this oil as compared to conventional oil. it doesn't get any dirtier than that. >> host: do you foresee congress doing anything with regard to this rail derailment

in west virginia? >> guest: we certainly hope so. we hope that we will look at those three things. what are we shipping, what are we should think again and where are we shipping it and how are people prepared to cope with it. the administration has made some recommendations. they are in discussions with the industry. we hope you will move forward expeditiously house of representatives brigham mccown is currently principal and managing drug of a group called united transportation advisors. mr. mccown, do you think there should be changes in the regulations to how oil is shipped translate we certainly do need to be they do need to be updated, and talking to my former colleagues at the department of transportation, i think they are going down the right path. acting administrator butters over at the pipeline and hazardous materials safety boucher said the has been doing for the job if he gets it. he's a first responder, lifelong career fire service guy.

the rule that my old agency is responsible for beating up the tank cars, that's over at the white house office of management and budget. secretary fox has done a good job leading into this issue. you're going to see new regulations come out in may. they will be too fast for some not fast enough for others but the fact is we can only build so many tank cars each and every day. i think they're going to be pretty aggressive, but separately with got a good handle on rail safety. the federal railroad administration together with the ntsb and the industry, needs to figure why train cars are derailing and whether it's track issues, whether it is the weather, whatever it is we've got to keep the trains on the track. it's that simple. >> host: how dependent are we on rail transportation for goods and services? >> guest: i think we are fairly dependent at this point for numerous reasons. number one again we still

import a fair amount of oil. i'd like to point out 42% of all the oil that we import comes from candidate. that's over 2.5 million barrels a day. that is not going to change and we ought to be lucky we are lucky we haven't. having been in the military and having been overseas i would much rather get the same type of oil from canada that we currently get from venezuela and saudi arabia. it's not dirty. it's not any different than oil they currently get in. number two for rail transportation we are dependent on rail transportation for the foreseeable future because we lack the pipeline infrastructure coming out of the box and. the pipeline operators, the people that build this -- bakken. they're having difficulty because every new pipeline project gets blocked by the same people that claim that they want to clean up the environment. the state department's own study says that when you transport oil by rail you have more accidents.

and, frankly, they even put a number of deaths on that figure for not building a pipeline like keystone. we have to look at safety first and remove politics from this debate. >> guest: well two quick points. i think brick and knows this. a lot of the pipeline operators themselves in north dakota are rejecting some without bakken accrued for the supper is that the producers are not investing in the stabilizers, not making that as safe as it needs to be. we're moving about 25 million gallons a day out of the bakken on rail. as for candidate goes, we don't have a better friend. when john terry was sworn in the very first day on the job, his very first guest was the foreign minister from candidate. we have one of the largest borders in the world. we have 300,000 people a day cross the border. we have the world's most robust trade relationship cross-border. we are good friends and allies. here we have a problem. we just finished the hottest

year on record in 2014 since record keeping began in 1880. 16 of the hottest years on record have all happened since 1997. canada and the united states need to cooperate around clean energy solutions, investing inefficiency so we can do more with less waste. getting more of our power from the wind and the sun, building the most energy efficient electric and hybrid cars anywhere in the world. at the united states and canada are cooperating around those areas. we need to do more better. that's your friendship can really go. >> host: let's take some calls. the numbers are up on the screen. we're talking primarily about railroad safety, its environmental impacts at times and whether pashtun what are some of the solutions. we will begin with an independent rachel.

texas. please go ahead. >> caller: they've been talking about the environment as long as i can remember we have been put on water rushes. you can only water your yard on a certain day. that the show you we have a shortage of clean water to drink. and another thing when they went through the keystone pipeline, they always talk about the jobs. it went from canada all the way through texas. that pipeline had to go through businesses. it had to destroy businesses, schools whatever was in its way. and we haven't talked about the ranchers and farmers but we don't hear from them. we'll hear from the oil companies. why don't we ever hear from the people it affected? >> host: thank you ma'am. >> guest: rachel, i appreciate the question. that pipeline you mentioned the water. that pipeline would? >> guest: more than 1000 waterways from the yellowstone

river to the platte river in just three states are construction would be concentrated, montana south dakota and nebraska. those three states have 110,000 ranches and farms. they produced $42 billion worth of agricultural products a year. that's where the real jobs or in this region to those of the resources we need to protect and that's what we need to stand up for against this pipeline. >> host: amanda from florida. >> caller: yes. i was wondering in terms of the railway is the extremes in weather, extreme heat and extreme cold perhaps the fact of the rails? >> host: brigham mccown. >> guest: sure. that's a very good question. you know unlike pipelines which are buried under the ground and are away from people and to some extent the weather, railroads are like streets, roads and bridges. they are exposed to all the elements.

we don't know exactly what happened in west virginia yet, although the acting administrator of the fra, the railroad safety agency says she doesn't think that he'd played effective but we do know several the relative because what is the track he's up into forms in the summer or the track gets a brittle and even breaks in extreme low temperatures. that's one of the issues we need to look at. how can we deploy sensor technology how can we use other methods to validate the safety of the tracks before we put these 100 plus cars call it unit trains, that can transport two or 3 million barrels of oil innocent by carlo down a the track. >> host: and "the wall street journal" this morning, oil train was traveling below track speed limit. something like 30 miles an hour in a 50-mile an hour zone. bob deans come in your view, what was the environmental

impact and what is the environment impact of what happened? >> guest: fortunately in this what it has been minimal. we did have a threat of a huge ball of fire blowing up any candidate couldn't deal with it. what we had in lynchburg last year we have 29000 gallons of crude oil going into the james river. it was seen 140 miles downstream in richmond. i was a real problem that year. we had another one of these disasters in alabama the year before and another in north dakota. we've had four major train disasters in less than two years to this is a serious problem. one of the things brigham mentioned track conditions are also operator error and other factors that go into it but we only have peter about 400 inspectors federally who look at our railroads nationwide. we need to bulk data. you can have a 40 fold increase in oil nothing by rail with this

same small group of inspectors trying to best to do their job if those guys need help. >> host: do you agree with that, brigham mccown? >> guest: i think we have to keep in mind the notions of federalism to most inspections, whether truck or pipeline on rail, a lot of these inspections are done at the state and local level by providing ground -- grant monies to this day grant monies to the state equity to get together with the states and have a discussion to see what their concerns are and see how we can better address them. but the federal government uses an audit type mechanism to try to identify integrity threats or threats to safety. you physically can't put 1 million inspectors out there over every square inch of railroad space, but we need to do better job of anticipating failures and finding out the root cause for failures so we can get ahead of the curve. >> host: poll, dayton, ohio, independent line comment yes hi. listen, i have a comment about

how we can solve this problem once and for all. the oil industry, a gas and oil industry is obsolete. we don't need gas and oil anymore, okay? gasoline engines have been obsolete for six years but every time we should oil like the valdez, you know that leaks. we transported, now we have this train derailment. if we do pipeline is going to leak underground, okay? we need to concentrate not going to mars but solar power and electric power. >> host: poll, thank you very much. bob deans of the natural resources defense council. >> guest: poll, excellent point. number one, we're making huge progress in improving our miles per gallon under an agreement that was reached between automakers themselves and the obama administration. we are going to be almost

doubling our gas mileage by 2025 to 54.5 miles per gallon. that's real progress. we saw star in "the new york times" today saying that in kansas city the utility there is plenty by 1000 electric charging stations in the kansas city area so that folks can actually use electric and plug-in hybrid cars a lot more effectively. that's happening around the country. it is very important we need to continue reducing our reliance on this fuel to its essential for future. and by the what it has created an enormous amount of jobs. we have nearly a quarter million americans right now to get up every day roll up their sleeves and good work putting up wind turbines and solar facilities. last year of windows will provide 5% of our electricity national but in some places, texas the oil capital of the world is about 9%. other states is as high as 25%. we can get nationally up to a third of our electricity from the wind and the sun by 2030 according to the d.o.e.

we need to do it house of representatives the world we create a message of hope for a planet and they'll. what is this, mr. deans? >> guest: the message is how we can actually build a better world for our children, recognizing that the natural systems we depend on for every job in this country, every job in the world, for our prosperity, for our very lives need fundamental to be protected, to be safeguard its commonsense and that's what the book is all about. frances beinecke was for many years the president of the natural resources defense council. she's an iconic person who stands up for our future and so she wanted to write that book as she retired and looks to the next chapter of her life host a brigham mccown, what kind of work do you do to stave? >> guest: well i'm a lawyer and i'm also a consultant that gets together with others to

codify solution to the transportation challenges we have. i'm also chairman of a new or nonprofit called the alliance for innovation and infrastructure. and i think as bob pointed out texas is a great example. they are leading the way in oil, leading the way in renewables. we need more renewables. totally support the concept. we need to continue the the good work we've done in reducing our greenhouse gas emissions, but this is about having a single tool in the toolbox. renewables can't get us where we need to get today. they just simply can't. even a world forecasts show that by 2040 we are still going to be largely depend on fossil fuels. our goals as former regulator is to figure out how we can improve the system, how we can get the products that we have to have from point a to point b. and safest possible. this isn't a zero-sum game. we need all the tools in the toolbox. clearly renewables are part of that, but so too are fossil

fuels for long time to come. >> host: is trained in rail travel energy efficient, mr. mccown? >> guest: training is -- rail is very efficient for a lot of different types of commodities. it takes a lot of volume off of our roads. trains are great for transportation of materials cross country. the transportation network we have, even though it has deficiencies and even though we can point out where it can be improved, is the envy of the world. thanks to president eisenhower with the eisenhower interstate system, with the railroads that build our west and our state-of-the-art pipeline infrastructure system, we can move things around more efficiently than any other country. and just like when there is an accident we need to be saying how do we improve the system not i will never drive again or i will never fly again because it's not realistic.

>> host: next call from mike in safety harbor florida. you were on the air. >> caller: thank you c-span. mr. mccown, i appreciate what you're saying at least but i don't have the faith and the federal government to accomplish some of the tasks it appears that we have an infrastructure problem which is ongoing and covers the gamut of bridges roads, rails et cetera. but in theory we will go without. mr. deans, you mentioned some things. first of all the main problem with the keystone pipeline, remember, this is an extension of an already existing pipeline that hasn't blown up and hasn't had all these crazy leaks and stuff but the main problem is the seizing of the lands via eminent domain and handing it over to these canadian oil companies. that's not been addressed. so there's one issue. secondly the path the

unintentional consequences. whether we like it or not we are stuck with oil for the better part of 30 years if we had a brand-new energy source that we could use across the board, it would take 30 years for our country to retrofit. let alone if we stop the use of oil and fossil fuels. we are talking about billions the number of deaths in the third world because they certainly can't make the jump from fossil fuels to whatever the latest technology is. so i don't want to necessarily demonize something that is going to go and get in my car here in a little while and go run my errands with. i'm sure you flew on an airplane. also i do want to get off topic but you did mention the climate so we have to look in respect to the after fox and not the rhetoric -- >> host: might, we've got a lot on the table. thanks for calling and.

>> guest: thanks, mike. you put some actual points on the table. i want to start with your stuck with will because i thought i was a great phrase and it harkens back to something that britain was saying earlier. there's a question also goes a played a crucial role in the dublin of this country a new question we will be burning fossil fuels for a time to conduct everything about this country, what bill those railroads, what build our canals what enabled us to win the cold war? what enabled us to put a man on the moon was the fact that we as americans embrace our future. we don't go we are dragged kicking and screaming into the future. with a bright future ahead with these clean energy technologies, getting more power from the wind and sun. we've got our energy use in half in this country as a portion of her economic output in just the last 35 years. think of what we can do in the next 35 years if we put our minds to it and we're going to. i finally want to say this. our congress right now, in the past two years, mike, the fossil

fuel industry spent more than $720 million to advance its allies and its agenda on capitol hill. that is trying to drag as back trying to anchor our future in the fossil fuels of the past but we can go the. we've got a brighter future and. >> host: dean said with a natural the natural resource defense council the brigham mccown joins us from dallas. he is the former acting director for the united transportation advisor. mr. mccown from within the pipeline infrastructure is there in the u.s.? what's traveling through some of those pipes? >> guest: we have almost 2.5 million miles of pipeline in our country and the vast majority of that transports natural gas from production sites through will because transmission lines, which be similar to your interstate highway system all the way down to our homes and our factories.

but we also transport almost all of the oil that we get in the country via pipelines to the refineries then the toilet when it is turning to other products such as gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel kerosene, is transported back through the pipeline network out to distribution points where a truck or some other method will take it to a storage tank or write to your gas station. it's the most efficient way of transporting a large quantum of energy products we use and that's what it is transported the lion's share of these items for nearly a century. it's the only one way transportation system. that makes extended efficient. it is also the safest by statistical analysis according to the u.s. government. pipeline come we are very relied on the pipelines and, you know thankfully so. >> host: jail is calling it from jupiter florida democrat.

>> caller: good morning. i think we can agree if we leave politics out of this that safety first is the issue. especially when it comes to water. the people of west virginia and have had a tremendous blow this year. i guess into last year and always, first with the coal industry leaking tanks of chemicals into their waterways. now we have tank cars derailed leaking into their waterways. since the gentleman is community, represented of the pipeline this is far afield but you also have a very aging pipeline underneath the great lakes. which is a huge freshwater resource for michigan and other states that surround the great lakes area. safety first i think should be the health and welfare of people.

and when you talk about keystone, now this isn't about the trains, but you have to consider the health of the people at both ends of the pipeline, whether it's the first nations up around the lake region whose water is so contaminated there looking at disease. and loss of food and the normal way of life. then you have come in from the air pollution as well as the water. at the other end of the pipeline in port arthur texas, the refineries, the people that live there have water and air quality issues. >> host: we got the point. thank you very much. let's start with bob deans. >> guest: excellent points across the board. i was just to underscore what you said about those first nations people. let's talk about this for a second. to get these tar sands out of the ground you are stripmining the boil force in can become one of the last truly wild places anywhere on earth. yes strip mined or steamed right

now part of that force. we've gutted out larger than the city of chicago. in there there are waste containment kids that would cover the entire city of washington, d.c. these are wildlife graveyard, leaking 3 million gallons of toxic sludge every single day into the river basin. and the local people there whose families have used that river for sustenance for generations can no longer eat the fish out of that river. that is abhorrent. the pipeline would encourage expansion of the arendt is practice. that in itself is enough reason to deny this horrible idea. >> host: mr. mccown? >> guest: yeah well you know, i respect about but i think is totally wrong on this issue. jill, i used to live in jupiter, florida, and and an appalachian. i grew up right near where this spill occurred by real. and i can tell you that we have to move beyond this rhetoric.

if you like it its oil sanpete want to disparage it is tar sands account please agree to remove all the rhetoric and just speak the truth? and the truth is that canada is developing the oil sands whether we buy it or not. the truth is it a rise in our every day. the truth is we need to move it as safely as possible. and that's with a brand-new pipeline. the truth is that we depend on candida for 42% of the oil we import and we're going to for the foreseeable future. the truth is i would rather get my oil from canada and saudi arabia or other places. and the truth is that if we don't buy this oil they're not going to keep it in the ground. that's a fallacy. the obama administration has disavowed that fact already. and it will get shipped somewhere else. we need to start dealing with reality versus the way that we wished the world was because that's not going to get us anywhere.

and while we do that have while we block important pipeline infrastructure projects and we block upgrades of existing projects, those people are undermining the environment not helping it. and that is the true tragedy of this discussion. >> host: this is dog canyon tweeting in, the source of this oil carries a real high real cost, and virginia techs and tweets in, keystone xl were replaced those dangers trains with a nice safe quiet non-diesel burning pipe. brigham mccown? >> guest: well, i think some of that is true. obviously, keystone event the most scrutinized pipeline project in our nation's history. for crying out loud, we figured out how to win world war ii in less time than it has taken this president to figure whether he wants to build a pipeline. transcanada, the operator, which is a u.s. company by the way

has agreed to 57 conditions. many of those go above and beyond what the law requires. many of them have since been incorporated into law. we do have an aging pipeline infrastructure. we aging infrastructure everywhere, and the safest thing we can do is to build a brand-new pipeline versus relying on less efficient and less safe methods of transportation. >> host: outgained? >> guest: the tar sands pipeline is not going to take one drop of oil off of american reels. that's not how it works. whether these tar sands are located, there are not railroad's out there to move out that's why this pipeline so important to the integer. if the industry could expand that the pipeline, we wouldn't be hearing so much about it. here are the facts. we have had -- >> guest: how are we getting 42% of our oil from -- >> host: mr. mccown, we will give you a chance but let bob deans finished. >> guest: we're getting a

3.3 million barrels a day from candidate. it is coming by pipeline. pipeline as we know terry huge risk within. we have had 6000 pipeline blowouts or leaks and just the past two decades. we'll hear about most of them but let's talk about a couple of them. the kalamazoo river five years ago, 38 miles of the wonderful river in michigan was essentially killed off by a dirty tar sands pipeline blowout. we had a blowout for years ago in the yellowstone river 42000 gallons of oil in the yellowstone river. we have another blowout in, the same thing happening just last month in the yellowstone river. we have had high point explosion after blowout and it does carry a risk with it and it carries a risk right across the bread basket of america in the case of keystone. it's a bad idea needs to be denied. >> host: brigham mccown? >> guest: we transport

1,123,000,000000 barrels. remember there are 42 gallons in a burial. 11.3 billion barrels of oil around the country each year. on average 32000 barrels are lost or spilled. by hiking up a pipeline accidents and fear mongering is not the way to get places. we spill more gasoline at service stations. we cleaned up more gasoline from highly accidents than we spill on a pipeline. the fact is that there is a certain level of risk in everything we do. when we leave the studio and get in our car there's a risk that something may happen to us. and i agree with bob, america didn't get to where it is today because we are risk averse because we were scared. know, america got to where we are today because we have the fortitude to be bold and to be brave and not hide in our homes. and again as a regulated it is so frustrating when i hear people say i don't like rail and

i don't like pipeline to i don't like this and they don't like that. we have to bring debate back to reality. it is to be good stewards to the private and the conservationists, we need to move these products as safely as possible. you can do that by blocking every idea and blocking every method we have. pipelines are safe. can they be safer? yes. and do older ones are still quick sometimes. do we need new ones? yes. there are crude oil trains, and so keystone will be very important that it will make us more safe. frankly, bob knows that. >> host: bob deans, a short response and then we'll move onto called. >> guest: i have enormous respect for you, britain and i will say this in terms of reality. this gives always inherent but do is there and at risk? no americans are running or hiding from anything. why should folks in little old lynchburg, virginia, be bearing

the risk of having and after all patch drop in their backyard? who is bearing the risk? our waters, lands, wildlife forms, branches, communities families, churches schools. the industry needs to step up and everything he can to reduce these risks. it's not happening to it needs to haven't. >> host: dean manuel is called in from durham north carolina,. >> caller: good morning. speaking to the educational peace, i right now in perl involved in environmental workforce development and job training program through the city of jerome. it's a great program and its part of the obama administration's and epa's brown's field program. we received training in asbestos work abatement, lead worker abatement osha, first aid and wastewater treatment plant.

the house whopper is a 40 hour course but it provides participants an opportunity to learn basic knowledge about protecting the health and safety of personnel working with hazardous waste in this is just some of things that can be done until the problem of spills are so. again it's a great program and its through the community college. >> host: brigham mccown? >> guest: i would like to see these programs are important a federal government and the agency that i the privilege of leading is that millions of dollars in grant money and preparedness and response train each and every year. we need that. when a regular looks at risk there are two aspects to it. one is prevention and the second is medication. prevention means keeping the accident from occurring in the first place. we need to do a better job at that especially on rail. for the reasons we've previously talked about.

mitigation means reducing the consequences or the size of this bill and we need to continue to do that. we have a lot of first responders around the country and every single fire truck they carry a department of transportation guide that informs them of how to respond to a hazmat incident and had respond to every single type of hazmat that is being transported. yet there's more we can do around the country and this is all about continual improvements, continual process improvement your we are safe but we can be safer. we need to adjust our plans accordingly given the amount of oil that we are seeing on rail. >> host: which is calling in from ohio. republican line. good morning. >> caller: good morning to you. it seemed like a lot of good points. it seems like no energy is a safe energy. we don't like natural gas because there's carbon into. the epa is totally killing the consumer. right now the individual is

facing the cold, really cold weather. their bills are going up electric and gas. partly because the epa is just killing them. they're not allowed to burn coal. the other thing is 5% of the energy being produced by solar and wind is no way enough but if we shut it all off today, we would all be frozen. you need other types of energies and they can cover that gap it is coming into people's bills. some people are going to be shut off because they can't afford the new bills with the epa regulations that didn't go through congress. that they just decide to smack them in there. power plants are sitting idle. they could be running and getting more heat and more back a. to. i wind up and listen to your answers post a bob deans, natural resources defense council. >> guest: i think what you are referencing is department of protection agencies trying to clean up our dirty power plants that account for 40% of the

carbon pollution that is driving climate change in this country. we need to do that it's the right thing to do the industry has been about the business for some time of shifting away from goal and toward cleaner types of sources. 44% of all in the electric generating capacity in our country in the past three years has come from and and some. 44%. these are decisions that are being made in the market place but our utilities. it has nothing to do with the epa. that's progress, moving in the right direction. it hinges on what dean manuel said a minute ago. his work is at the cutting edge of a major movement toward clean energy jobs in this country. 3.4 million americans according to the bureau of labor statistics are now working every day in wind and solar, in building the next generation of energy efficient cars homes and workplaces making a more sustainable world for as we move into an area where we have a diversified mix of energy choices, and we're doing more with less waste.

that in standard economics is what drives rates down. that's the key to affordable reliable energy for every american. >> host: railroads have far too long neglected their tracks and equipping. if they are unwilling to do better, then they should go out of business. charles is called in from ohio. charles? >> caller: yes i have something to say. you all are talking about it but all the oil spill's always seemed to happen whether its pipeline or rail, always seem to happen wherever fresh water supplies are. now they want to build a humongous oil pipeline over the freshwater aquifers out west. do you think that i-9 11 i-9 9/11 style attack on this pipeline could ever happen? and do you really think all this is going to? >> guest: well and the

ogallala aquifer which runs from south dakota all the way down to texas, i think that's the drinking sorcerer talking about. we have thousands of miles of pipelines through the aquifer. nebraska as the planet oil pipeline that crosses the aquifer and the platte river that's been there since the mid 1950s. the federal government's regulatory requirements for pipelines running through sole source water aquifers through environmentally sensitive areas are more robust. that are more stringent requirements for pipe lines in those kinds of areas. frankly, look at the trans-atlantic a -- trans-alaska pipeline but if you would look at a pipeline that that by the way is aboveground that runs through the most pristine parts of alaska and our wilderness has an exemplary safety record. i think the point i would like to make is it's not a zero-sum

game. it's not winners and losers. it's not safety for oil. we can have both. just like the energy mix that bob talks about, we don't need a gigantic hammer is the only tool in the toolbox. we need lots of different tools, and coming together what we are seeing is a rebirth of the american energy for an energy renaissance. we are experiencing it. throwing out numbers the return of the economy has been literally powered in large part due to resurgence of american energy, both renewable and fossil fuels oriented. look at the price at the pump. look at that we do not collect ourselves against instability from the middle east. all of these factors together are allowing the american economy to grow. and when you grow the pie does more for everybody. the way to the future is to move things safely, efficiently and with and as, you know as

efficiently as we can. that allows us to reap the maximum benefits. but to get mirrored it down for six years over a routine infrastructure fight and other become the poster child for the environmental movement is absolutely absurd. >> host: bob deans what's the long-term department of affect in your view of what happened in west virginia? >> guest: i hope the effect will be to we wake up and said we have a problem on our heads. we're putting our communities at risk by moving oil on trains in a way that is riskier than it has to be. we have to make the products safer by taking the volatile gases out at the source the right to make our trains safer by doing exactly what brigham said. first off keep them on the tracks to begin with and second let's hardened those shells of the tankers so they're not as likely to rupture. third we've got to look at where the around. there are 25 million americans living within a mile of where an

oil train passes through the most people don't realize that but there's research. 25 million americans. that's an awful lot of exposure. we can do better. >> host: bob is in north carolina, independent line. bob, we are listening to what you have to say. >> caller: well gentlemen you all are having a very interesting conversation. i'm going to try to say something simple and commonsense. we have to of all of the above in the energy in these united states. solar and wind is good but it is you're going to put lithium ion battery packs in every house of the trade, well, the power goes off at night. we can can transport with rail or we can do it in trucks or we can do it in pipelines. trucks are too beneficial. a pipeline is a good way but they'rethey are expensive to build and they take a long time. we are stuck with rail right now. my grandfather was a machinist. i'm sure that the would be an old school way to figure out how

to vent the cars as they go down the road and expel the gas through some kind of filter. and also, the president has a job own task in his you know being president. it's the oil and gas and go companies make plenty of profits. if he can job own envelope and ask them to go inspect all the rail tracks that they're going to use for oil transport for the rail. and the energy that we have in the united states, one of the biggest projects in china right now is they've got a big huge coal plant. they're kind of you got the most efficient way to burn coal to make it clean. we have 250 years of coal reserves that if they are properly and environmentally safely taken out of this country, we can help power this country for a long time. now another job own thing --

>> host: host but we are going to live there. we have a lot of calls stacked up and we will begin with bob deans. >> guest: might all go was machinist so we have a family connection there. i think the important thing is the big picture the risk we been talking about debate needs to be minimized and it needs to be recognize that this risk is part of the price we're paying for our continued dependence on oil. we've been drilling oil in this country for 150 years. wewe've made an awful lot progress when you look around in communications and other things. we can move away from this dependence on oil. that's the way to reduce this risk, to create the future we are not overnight but over time using less and less of this reducing the risk and moving onto the clean energy future i can put americans back to her great healthy future for our children and make this country more secure. >> host: brigham mccown? >> guest: totally agree with it. we need a mix and we need to

move toward renewables and when renewables can displace fossil fuels because they are as efficient, i'm all for. in the meantime let's not kid ourselves by block infrastructure projects by being obstructionist and getting in the way. because what that does is it forces the movement of these details onto less safe methods, and undermines the environment, doesn't improved. >> host: we need more renewables but renewables simply cannot get us where we need to be today. john is in jonesboro, georgia, republican line. good morning, john. >> caller: good morning. and thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask mr. deans where he gets his numbers. because the numbers just do not add up. and one mistake that a just noticed when mr. dean said that they are creating vacuums the size of the state of chicago

mr. deans my gender is pretty good. i'm pretty sure chicago is in illinois. and why is born buffett building more take a cars? one of the question that i would like to pose to mr. deans, when you fly, are you flying on solar energy for our youth want on windmill energy? could you answer that, mr. deans mr. deans? >> host: before he answers that, can you, where is your concern? do you have a concern when it comes to the environment? do you consider yourself an environmental list? >> caller: let me say something about the environmentalists. we've been having global warming, and i believe they had the counselor meeting in new york the last global warming meeting their going to have with al gore because of ice and snow. ..how about the people in the

northeast right now that are absolutely freezing to death because they can't -- you want to put a block on coal. brought to put a block on oil. well, like i said, this country was built by people that take risks. all he wants do is go up there and -- i'm not sure where he gets the numbers from. peter: ok, let's get a response from bob deans. guest: takes the call. i wrote for the atlanta journal for 25 years. and the information i'm giving you is the most authoritative numbers i can find. most of them are coming from the government the gold standards, the best numbers you can get. i appreciate the call. but i just want to go back to one mischaracterization you may. the reference i made to 's is to chicago was the sizee fourthn of the has been gouged by theprodsome

of industry to produce some of the dirtiest fuel on the planet. that's what i was talking about somethings for bringing it up. >> host: bpe told the gulf coast. nobody wants to eat those fish. chemicals they try to hide or you with its poisonous. i started uncovering it when i was at the federal government and that is the largest cleanup of the oil spill in the scope and that was done by a bp and we talked with the chemical safety board following the accident at the texas city refinery and frankly raised the alarm several years ago if we have a think --

we don't need to say we need to stop flying. we say how do we fix it and that's typically what we do as americans. bp was tragic and preventable, shouldn't have happened and i think bp has paid an enormous price in fines and penalties and i'm fairly pleased with the federal government's response. as a regulator i find oil companies every day i jumped up and down and said things behind closed doors i probably can't repeat. that's different than saying keep them out of business. we rely on them every day. it's not optional. we have to have a decent working relationship that again they are like your kids you love them and have to hold them accountable. >> argue satisfied with the governmental response to what

happened in west virginia? >> guest: so co. so far i am but it's too early to tell. the federal government is looking at the issue again. my point all along, i had a grandfather that worked at the chesapeake and ohio i have model trains of them still in my basement but we simply can't afford these kind of spells. it's one thing if you spoke a boxcar or celery lumber. it's another thing if you have such crude oil going down the track. we had a similar issue when it started being transported by the railroad. they got together and looked at it and they replaced it with track and the accidents went down. we transported a lot of hazardous material and a lot of that was far more volatile and we don't have any spells. the issue is it's taking on a lot of products right now and

the question we have to ask is how do we safely move these trains and keep them from having a derailment it's that simple. >> host: i want to say how much i appreciate the fact that people of goodwill and good intentions and good profession like yourself have devoted to government service to try to help create a safe future for the country. we are not stuck with coal and gas including the lakes and rivers in farms and communities at risk. we have an opportunity of the generation to invest in efficiency so we do more with less get more from the wind and the sun and built here in the united states of america we can do it. don't let anybody ever tell you we can't. >> host: natural resource defense council, here is his book along with the world we

create hope for the planet imperiled. thank you both for being on the washington journal this morning. >> here on c-span2 we have been airing the segment.

the senate returns monday at 3 p.m. from their weeklong presidents' day holiday break north dakota republican

the towers are gone but the memories come flooding back who today lost such a big part of their childhood. many released after the war. some very good memories and with it the history of this camp. now more than 60 years later. >> sunday on q-and-a on the only family internment camp during world war ii at the crystal city texas and what she says is the reason for the camp. >> the government comes to the father's and says we have a deal for you. we will reunite you with the family in the crystal city internment camp if you agree to go voluntarily and then i discover what the camp was.

a patriot to germany and japan if they decide that they need to be repatriated. so the truth of the matter is the crystal city camp was humanely administered. but the special word edition of the department of state used it as roosevelt's primary prisoner exchange and is the center of the prisoner exchange program. the annual disrupt conference in san francisco you will hear from silicon valley ceo and venture capitalists on current and future innovations. we begin with the ceo of uber and why they hired a former campaign adviser and why

the battles in the cities in u.s. around the world. other speakers include the dallas mavericks owner and investor capitalist mark cubin on the investment behind his new messaging app and also he was about holmes on her revolutionary blood diagnostics company. a program notes some of the language contained may be offensive to some viewers. this is two hours. >> why he is the press so hard on you? >> when people start to perceive you as a big guy you are not allowed to be fierce. if you are the little guy that is cheered on and applauded. it's a heroic sort of startup story. like i turn the thing in to something in my last company in for most people they call it a single for me at fold like a homerun. but again as you get to a place

where people perceive you as the big guy or the man you have to approach things differently and communicate differently. and we are not there yet. we want to be there and we are going to get better but those are the challenges that we are facing and those are the things we are improving on. >> it sounds like you've recently hired david plough the former obama adviser in the political war or i think you put it differently you said the campaign if you're running. is bringing him on creating a gentler ari schwartz a key doesn't start until the end of september. he was obama's 2008 campaign manager and an adviser sort of in between the campaign and the white house and 2012. he's a pretty incredible guy.

but we view where we are out in i said this a couple times before as there is a political campaign that was happening we didn't really realize it but there there's a political campaign happening in uber was the candidate and the opposition was the taxi cartel. maybe there are primaries going on. but the big opponent was the cartel and they were out there and they've been giving political donations for dozens of years decades. they've been lobbying folks for those same decades. >> the old local politicians. >> they've created a situation there there's a monopoly in every single city and that causes problems for people who

want to get around efficiently and it causes problems for creating jobs and it's not only that they don't have options. they also get stuck. the driver releases the car for $40,000 a year. it should be a bentley or something. and for the privilege of fleecing the car he gets to be impoverished and that's because he didn't have options. >> the single taxi is worse than a million dollars because of the artificial scarcity. they are in new york today and

13,000 in the early 1950s. >> does he greased the wheels and bribe people or does he give you a hammer. she is the campaign manager. the policy communications branding and strategy. >> you can't even -- when you go to a city and say you have the right policy for instance miami if you push a button or sorry if you call to get a town car there is a law that says if that car comes in 15 minutes you have to wait 45 minutes for before

you are legally allowed to enter the vehicle and if you enter before an hour has passed that driver can be a rested. so if you say we want to fix that and you want to meet with a city council person or a major or something they literally say there is no meeting unless you go through this guy and he's a lobbyist. >> that's where the cache is inserted. cash is inserted. >> in the big scheme of things. >> i'm glad you hired a professional to handle that for you. [laughter] how much of uber do you own at this point? >> i own a iona lott. >> more than 50%? >> i don't think it's appropriate to talk about that here. >> you think it's inappropriate to talk about on stage at a technology conference famous for breaking news about people's personal net worth?

>> we can talk about it later. >> when you introduce yourself to use ai and a billionaire or is it still paper for you? >> that's kind of funny. i think a lot of people who know me know that i'm pretty much the same today as i was -- >> i know you and your the same. >> so you know the answer to that question. [laughter] you used to be one of the poorest rich people i knew if that makes sense -- >> what does that mean? >> he made a million dollars but you immediately invested it in startups, you are all in and now you are worth some number of billions of dollars i think based on your last valuation and i just kind of want to see a little bit of arrogance or something that i can make fun of but i'm not really getting it.

>> i will work on that. >> so two days ago i was in palo alto and i called for an uber and they came in on the way i get a call from the driver and says where are you going and i said a couple of miles and he hung up and canceled the ride. son of a bitch. i assume he's been fired at this point, right? my point of view of the thing i loved about uber back in the day is that i would never have that shit pulled on me where they don't show up, don't take credit cards on a uber took care of that. are you growing so fast to some of those that some of those old taxi problems are coming into the system? >> i think if you were to wave down a taxi in manhattan he is

going to say no and that's normal and there is nobody to complain to. in the uber model, we are not perfect. we strive to be. so when that happens we encourage the feedback and folks who do this, drivers and partners. >> so it is against the rules to engage in the taxi behavior. they have to take anybody. >> )-right-paren but this is the tricky balance of this kind of business is that we have two sets of customers, the writers of course there's the drivers too. any policy that we have for a cancellation policy or any of these minimum chairs and things like this in many cases it's good for one side and bad for the other. you do something good for the writers but then the drivers are upset or you do something good for the drivers and then the writers are upset. finding that sort of principal balance is actually quite tricky

and it's why anytime there is a little policy tweak that we do somebody is upset that we've really tried to find that middle ground. it's the right thing to do to take feedback from the writers when there's a trip that didn't meet expectations or standards and ultimately folks that are not meeting the standards shouldn't be on the system because then you can't offer a high-quality service but there's also a driver constituency that you have to be mindful of and i'm not saying that in this case that hit the line but it's part of our nuance. >> you have been trained. >> i've not. >> you are smooth all of a sudden. >> that's not true.

>> my team wishes i took training. have you seen some of the things i say? [laughter] >> yes i have. >> i had oatmeal this morning so i'm a little colder. >> that's good. a nice balanced breakfast is a good way to start the day. how many drivers to uber have? >> we are in the hundreds of thousands. hundreds of thousands of partners connected to the system. >> how many are you bringing on a three-month? >> we are in the many tens of thousands. so right now, you know we are in the neck of the lives of woods of about 50,000 new jobs in the month that are being created. >> how many do you activate every month? >> i don't have that number handy but there's some number. i don't know what it is right now.

>> you have a competitor, left which is annoying because you have to sit in the front and talk and they have these mustached things. i haven't used it but i've heard some people apparently have. they seem to be constantly whining that you are beating them, that you're trying to take there's drivers by offering them incentives to. i don't hear a lot about their business but i hear a lot of whining. what you would you consider buying them just to shut them up? that is a valid strategy isn't it like just pleased to shut up and we will buy you? [laughter] >> i like to use -- i like to take the political and allergy a little bit further and say that of course the opponent is the cartel but there's a primary race going on right now and there's they're scrapping that happens in the primary race. i think that's part of it.

in terms of how we think of it uber we are sort of just focus on the product and building the business. we are in a couple hundred cities in 45 countries and we are proud of that. we haven't spent time on the other side of things. >> that was approaching an answer. >> how did i not approach it? >> i said would you buy them to shut them up and you said you haven't bought companies. -- >> we are not in the acquisition mode right now. >> tell me about what he called us you call this where it's like a city bus? it is a uber pool. >> you get people in a car drive and make stops and somehow this isn't a city bus that you've duplicated.

it's something independent of that? i don't get how that works and why anyone would use it. >> here's the idea. the idea is you push a button and a car comes and picks you up just like normal and while you are on your way to your destination somebody else is going along the same route at the same time and you going to pick somebody else along the way. >> and they get in the car with the? >> they get in the same car as you that's correct. what happens then is -- >> it sounds a lot like a bust so far. >> understood. [laughter] the difference is for a bus you go to a corner half a mile away from you and wait 15 minutes and sometimes it's on time and sometimes it's not. this one comes just like the uber that you know you push the button and if they are when you want it and where.

that is the uber magic. then what happens is you are still getting the benefit of the bus and the benefit of carpooling by literally taking cars off the road. there is significant efficiencies in doing this. >> it seems like to make this work you have to have a massive number of users for the network to make this viable otherwise it just seems like it wouldn't work at all. >> if we were just starting out in a city and we are launching cities of all the time you just can't do it because there have to be a large number of people going from -- basically having the routes that overlay each other at the same time. you can't do a small one but if you are big you can start to make that work and i think that one part is liquidity and the other part is product.

that product has to be just right because there's a lot that can go wrong from the moment especially if there's a second user pushing the button and making this all work. >> do you think you have enough liquidity to make this work in san francisco and new york tax >> i think we do. i think is right on that edge the edge of liquidity to make this work at scale. >> so others are doing copycat products you're saying that they won't be able to make it work because they are so much smaller. >> there is a little bit but i don't think that it is a gift to be good different feature.

we are seeing good pickup. i can't wait to see you in the pool. i don't want to go out of my way to pick up another person. i want to go where i want to go. >> they drop you off. i can't wait to see the uber pool. then i'm the only person in the car car into something else can come in and you can have a perpetual bride for the driver. what's interesting about that is to think you think about the driver income side of this utilizing the car and getting the income up and also how that is going to affect the prices and help to bring them down. it's a big deal. it's about bringing the cost of taking uber below the cost of

owning a car and right now -- >> that car manufacturers must love you talking about that. >> so the car manufacturers are going to freak out when they say that the cities are going to go down. the taxis want you dead. you probably would be the kind of guy to hire someone to hurt you and then you've got the ankle biter's that are trying to compete with you. who aren't you fighting with? >> who am i not fighting with? the nature of the businesses that business is that it is so disruptive. it's so insanely disruptive that there's a lot of incumbents in a lot of places that we've got to persuade to come over to the other side. >> so the answer is almost no one. but tell me about the win because it is unbelievable to me when i started seeing the battles with all of the cities, you want all of those battles it

seems to me. >> we are in a very good spot in the starting to see the things that have been in the u.s.. we are starting to see that in europe and we are working through it. we still have a cease and desist from the city of san francisco from october 2010. but there was a law passed three weeks ago in california that reaffirmed with the public utilities commission already said a year and a half ago or more, something like that. >> so you feel good about california. >> corrado illinois, are there any other trouble spots? >> we are not in las vegas yet. there's a few cities like that. vegas is a good one. >> now there's europe where it's just a train wreck. >> our business in europe is growing faster than the u.s. at

this point. >> are you subject to 250,000 penalties or something? >> there was a case in hamburg the court originally decided that we were breaking some rule. that case then got suspended then there was another case in frankfurt which said we were basically charging too much. >> i thought it was charging too little. >> they will get you one way or another. so we were like just tell us what the price is and they won't tell us what the price should be. and that is on appeal right out. >> in china things are going well? >> in china we are in five cities and beijing is the fastest city. either number two or number one

in the fastest growth we've seen from the city. >> you said beijing has 70000. >> 70,000 cabs in beijing. >> and new york has? >> 13,000. >> it's huge. i think china and a lot of folks may be in america don't know all the stuff that's going on. we are in north asia south asia, europe middle east. there's a lot of interesting things going on in china specifically. 70,000 rivers in beijing. 60 or 70,000 drivers and there are 200 cities in china that are over a million people. and so there's a lot going on. you have two big taxi companies out there with taxi applications that are in an all-out war. one of them partnered and

there's hundreds of millions of dollars being subsidized on each side by the big companies for these respective companies to grow and when. so there's like this really big chinese war going on out there. >> when you say that it makes me think stay away from that market. you have these players being spent on subsidies underpriced from where the market should be then you come rolling in and how does that work? >> what is really fun and awesome about what's going on for us and maybe the specifically is that we get to be the little guy. for me that is like homecoming. we can be the little guy and see what happens. for me why not try. yes i think you're right there's a lot of challenges and a lot of things are but how much fun is it to try and if you can

persevere and make that work that is awesome. >> how are you going to make it work? >> what we see between them is a little bit of a head start and the subsidies push money and they are giving rides away for free and in exchange creating payment accounts. so what happens is if you are smaller they will do subsidies. it's got to be more expensive to retain their market share in the world. so there's a lot of interesting sort of economic competitive things that are going on. and when you are the small guy there's a lot of things that a small guy can do that a big guy -- >> small in the sense that you just arrived. you have a pretty large balance

sheet. how much have you earmarked towards fighting this war in shanghai and beijing? hundreds of millions of dollars? >> we are so small right now but it's not going to cost us a lot to get in the game. >> that every dollar costs so much more because they are so much bigger? >> right now we are doing ridesharing in one city at this point and we are just finding ways to make the economics work. we always start with how we do we make a sustainable business as part of our culture. ultimately you have to have a sustainable business and that is part of our culture but at the end of the day, we are going to try to offer the cheapest most reliable ride in china and we think on the product side there are benefits to help and i think it is good to be interesting for

us to be in that market against those guys that are going big. >> last question because i think that we are double overtime, complete disregard for everyone else's time and i apologize to everyone but i want to ask this one question which is if in five years it is just gone come if we had to guess what is it that would kill you? the politics, the competitor's? what is your biggest threat? >> that's an interesting one. i think the stress. at the last company was stressful because i didn't have any money and i was always trying to make it work in for six and a half years straight which is hundreds of thousands this is a different kind of stress at this point a little of

her four years. so you have to find ways to find that center and find balance and sanity because again, we are getting bigger and people look at us that way and we have to find a new balance and i think right now that is stressful and we are working hard to find it. >> maybe you can do some pilates something. >> i'm open to all and open to all suggestions. >> thanks. [applause] quick announcement because the electricity really slowed us down this morning the conduct is called vying and that is what we

are working on and we are going to be giving away a mini drone. use the hash tag on any vying for the post and the people get that sorted out to you. a super genius do not confuse him with the volunteers he's wearing green but he's actually a huge deal. he thought it was a part of it we are going to see what he did today. please welcome alex wilhelm from techcrunch. [applause] >> it's been a year since you were here last time. >> that is a long.

>> this will take about 100 years to build a fully. >> he felt like he was on a television program. i did a quick nap this morning and that makes you the poorest person that but we are interviewing in this first block. how does that make you feel? [laughter] >> that is entirely inaccurate. the sky is the limit for changing roughly 10% of the gdp. >> that's what you want to do. there has been a lot of talk recently in the market about potentially divesting paypal and you know the company better than anybody else. should they spend them out of? >> at some point, and i mean in the next 18 months for sure or

earlier the volume will outstrip ebay so it will be a division of paypal. it is a key market but ultimately it is the pastor growing of the two so whatever happens they must receive the full managerial attention. >> would you be willing to buy shares in the republic? >> it is entirely dependent on who. >> who would you want to run its? >> there are a whole bunch of people, probably the best person to run paypal after the part of the acquisition is david who has recently become available.

>> he's definitely the one who knows. >> in the second quarter they had a revenue of 9.13 billion and 12 million. so it is a differential. do you think by it self it is worth more than twitter right now as a stand-alone entity? >> that is asking so much of someone who hasn't tracked for a long time. i do imagine at least it is a comparable level of value. >> $35 billion. >> [inaudible] >> if you sold paypal. how much different than the lens of the current market? >> you can only run once.

they have one of the strongest possible. it is as good a brand as the mastercard and it's super hard to compare. >> when you look back at the 1.5 million in the facility in light of the current that we are seeing now. >> sure about they realize how permanent the impact of the fundamental industry companies are. it's still sort of in the question of whether they are going to be around forever and it's been around for a couple

hundred years so i think things have changed. >> do you regret the price that you sold it for? do you see it in the total market? >> it's hard to tell about the public market because there are so many forces that are well outside of the valley. is there any sort of a attempt to predict is that a macro level we live in an uncertain time in any given time for the major

impacts that have nothing to do with silicon valley. >> on the private side for the price of companies in this 12 months. >> selectively, yes there's a bunch of companies that are important until problems where the market is pricing them at the very least that correctly around the kind of impact that might happen. and a bunch of other companies that are not solving big problems. >> what are some of the companies right now that are optimistically priced, who are the superstars that you like?

>> travis just came off the stage they have the opportunity to disrupt market sized. they have a restrictive policy on buying or selling shares right now but i probably would. >> on the negative side companies do you see them as getting the reyes for more money? >> they will have a harder time raising money as the actual proposition that the revenue level for the market. [inaudible] >> do think that the square is

in line with where it should be? >> i'm not familiar with their business because i'm not an investor as perhaps i should be. i think that if we crack the small-business lending piece that they have began they are probably undervalued. >> apple tomorrow is expected to do some sort of a payment. do you think people will use its? >> for a long time there was a rumor in the valley that they valley that they were interviewing somebody to run their payment initiative and that seemed like an interesting step. they are in the best position of the companies. i think they have the world's largest collection of credit card on file so far as they can tell so they are giant targets

that they could do some really serious rearrangements. >> if they do bring the sound would you want to find a way to integrate into its? >> i would love to. from what the reports have said so far, apple is going to release the payment method so we could fit right in. if they did they couldn't tell you and if they didn't they couldn't tell you either. >> apple is very secretive. >> have they ever tried to buy you? >> they have not. >> david decided that you would view that company as an abject failure and at least $1.5 billion. >> do you have the same standard for the company?

>> having said that, i figured out right around the time of the journey that i really want to measure the number of people that view the products over a long period of time. they have hundreds of millions of users and i felt good about that and that's when i made a announcement about the value size of the company. ultimately there isn't a single product alive today and that to me is a failure. i want a firm to be used by hundreds of millions of people long after i am done or gone and that i don't care what it sells for. >> so you don't really care the price at the end. >> i don't want to put a dollar figure on it. hundreds of millions of users. >> he wanted to get public or sell it privately? >> i would like to do whatever is best for my employers and

investors and when the time comes i am encumbered by those concerns. >> you've talked about it for a little bit but people don't know what it is. today know you but not the product. >> so, it is an attempt to completely reinvent consumer banking and alternately help with small-business banking as well. we started with credit because one of the observations i made right around the paypal time is that the internet was peeling off complexity and the lack of information from just about every industry and the finance was hard to figure out and it still is today when you get your credit card in the mail and put it over and there's a small print. so why does it have to be so difficult to understand what is going on?

>> there's a 100% margin product and various forms of hidden charges. so i thought to myself with things like yelp and all the other products as you unbundle the complexity you end up with more profitable models in the end and no one has really done it for financing so we have set off with the firm to build the future of the financial services for consumers and having said that we have to start somewhere. specifically what we started with is the point of sale monday so when you go to a big department store, the salesperson will say come back and apply for the in-store credit card and you know that screen to be a painful process and you will probably not get approved based on your score which is a magical square no one fully understands and he's going to get screwed if the interest rate history to be horrible and atrocious. so get the retailers do it all

the time because it is a great boon to the retailers and increases the sales and improve the conversion so they are motivated to do this and they know they are still selling it so what if they provided an amazing alternative. >> but they make purchases at the point-of-sale. >> that's what it is today. it expands to all different kind of services. >> for taking one to a slightly lower interest. >> it is fairly low actually and more importantly compared to the credit card which is a good baseline alternative if you're carrying a balance it will save you money on a purchase. so these are very affordable loans. >> what is the average rate you charge a customer? what would you charge me? >> somewhere between 60 to 70%. >> and the average card is what? >> depends where you are but if you're like most customers

somebody fresh out of college who has a score that hasn't been fully calculated probably 2999 is what you're looking at. one of the things we do because we are a 21st century company we price every loan to the transaction to the person committed a merchant. they are not compounding interest in the straight line so you know exactly what are you borrowing" the payment will be each month for the transparency part of the six >> so every time they want to buy something? >> it take us less than a half second so -- >> how can you look at me and my entire profile in less than half a second and decide what great to charge me, that feels like a quick glance. >> so long as the rate is good for you we are pretty good at

connecting a bunch of databases and filled out a bunch of really good models for the ability to repay. it's a lot of the same sort of math we did at paypal to figure out who is the good guy and bad guy. >> so the algorithm, how do people understand how it works? they don't know what you're looking at and they may not feel that it's fair. how do they know that it's recent or if you're wrong? >> they are not required to take it so they can always go back to the credit card or whatever form of payment they have available to them and make a comparison because we will disclose the interest rate and the charges they will see very transparently. the way we figure out who they are and how they are is a bunch of interesting ways. the most important thing that is true is the millennial generation does social security number has been replaced with

their mobile number. that is kind of the key index to a bunch of interesting public databases so anything from social media to your phone bill is a good way of figuring out who you are what sort of income you have what sort of death you are likely to take on and service and that income ratio is one of the best that exists that we can use to figure out how likely you are to be able to take care of this loan. >> how much have you loaned out right now? >> it's kind of going off the charts right now. we've been testing it various versions of the load with the exclusively disclosed charges upfront and at this point the merchants are seeing something like 30 to 40% increase every time we offered this to them so they are providing it aggressively and --

>> and how much right now for the consumer's? >> that i can't tell you but it's not in the millions. it is less than 10 million. >> more than five clicks and that i will plead the fifth on this one. >> is between one and ten. >> how much has it grown in the last six months? >> four digits worth. >> okay. >> do you hit 100 million? >> yes. >> so 100 million in 12 months. >> give or take. >> how do people not pay you back? >> they have to not pay us back roughly less than the combined interest rates they interest rate recharge because otherwise we would be unprofitable. having said that, we look at the non- repayment rates. people with super prime credit in other words people who choose

us because of our transparency and quality of service versus our prices 100% of the time. we've never lost a penny. people that are already living in the recession definitely go delinquent and sometimes default probably in the single digits to double-digit percentages and that's as it should be because that's what it's all about. >> what is the next product? >> that i will not broadcast. we like to surprise. >> thank you. [applause] >> okay the next guest is really special to me. i grew up in dallas and learned about him as a mavericks game. he's so much more than the owner of the mavericks. please welcome the next guest

bark cuban. >> these are kind of comfortable. take off your shoes, why not. i'm not going to do with the. anyway welcome back. >> thank you. >> you were here in 2008 for techcrunch. >> it's changed. it's grown. >> it's quite large. >> is now gone on to tv fame and everything. >> shocking. >> so to us normal people come in your list of accomplishments kind of reads like a bucket list. but they go through this, you built the company for millions you bought and won the championship committee became a household tv name and you danced with the stars. >> was the best part. >> but now you are an expert.

>> i wouldn't say expert but it's important. >> are you afraid you are such a public person that your communication could be hacked to? >> that genesis is that i have the fcc come after me and every message that by e-mail of context, whatever it was they discovered obviously we turned over when we went to the discovery process and debate created their own context for it. there was one part literally i said i would hate to lose talking about the mavericks and when we went to trial they brought that up and said he hates to lose. that's why he sold his stock. so it's crazy how anything you say can do this. so from there it was like thinking about it if you think of any e-mail, any message you sent the minute you hit send you lose ownership of that message that you don't lose responsibility. we see that over and over and over again. so when you hit send it goes to another user never touches a

hard drive never goes anywhere can't be recovered like snap chat board he raced and then re-created in any way shape or form by anybody. >> where did you see this fitting into a persons life? >> a couple different roles. we are looking for e-mail 3.0. and as we look at its people try to come up with different ways to filter. in reality, e-mail will evolve so that it's there for things you have to reference in the future. we will be there hopefully to replace a lot of you are texting and e-mail because it is ephemeral meaning when i send you a message you look at it and 30 seconds after you're done reading it it's gone. you can't procrastinate. so in my personal experience and others come its reduced our -- it's increased my productivity by 25 or 30% and then a third application for that default, have something called a blast feature where you can have followers on the cyber dust. i have 80,000 followers so it's

very much like twitter that the difference is when i blast something out he only people who see it or the people who follow me and because it is in-line rather than timeline, everybody sees it but most importantly, twitter has kind of evolved into a scenario where there are so many trolls that before we see anything we have to be careful and consider how someone else might look at -- >> it is fun to be a troll unless you are being trolled. with cyber dust there are no trolls and as a result i blast something out to you, the replies i get our 121. nobody else can see them. so if i i blasted out a motivational quote and i got a lot of responses i could respond to each of those personally whereas on twitter i don't know if anybody's going to see it because it is timeline and because there are so many people that are just looking for things any of us say or looking at the responses and people don't really speak openly and honestly. so you pull all of those things

together and as a result we shrink the digital footprint and i think as we go forward, cyber dust will look at ways to shrink the digital footprint and it will become more important to all of us because there's so much out there that we don't remember that can pop up when we least expect it and can be posted online. and i will give you the other example i have a daughter that is about to turn 11. i trust her. she's more of an adult than i am a lot of times, but she's going to send a very simple message to some idiot kid at some point, something like he just found my ipad i love you for that. and that kid is going to show all of his buddies see, she loves me and use it out of context. with cyber dust i will have her use the same to say that message is going to be gone. it's not going to be something that can be repurposed and if he tries to do a screenshot you know it and we can deal with it.

>> when we were preparing for this interview, you had only talked to me on the cyber dust which was kind of annoying because i had to go back and try to remember and take notes. >> if you learn how -- some people are doing it wrong. when you send a message on cyber dust if you just tap on it it pins it so you will remember what you said. it won't pen what somebody says to you. but for things we have to remember we will go to e-mail for stuff like that but okay we will be here at this time, this day that's okay e-mail is a nice complement. >> where do you see it going forward to? >> we will do a lot of privacy commerce. like twitter today announced they are going to be doing commerce and they did some smart things with it but you don't want to be in a position where they are saying you got that or this or why didn't you buy this? so the commerce is going to have a lot more privacy involved with commerce as we go forward.

i think you'll see us grow as a nice component for twitter where it is just a publication promotion but cyber dust is for one-to-one personal communication. ..