with. you can picture a pcp user somebody that is fearless and also can sustain a large amount of damage. we saw insurgents that had sustained 14 gunshot wound to their body that went right through them and they continue to fight. entire buildings were collapsed on individuals than they continue to fight under the rubble. it was a very -- it was a battle that changed many of our lives. i will just say that in many ways there are many lessons that can be learned from falluja on the current day and terms not necessarily of itself but afterwards that the awakening. in many ways that is the key to success. it's moving forward. thank you.

[applause] >> the barbed wire and guard towers but the memories come flooding back for so many people who until today have lost such a big part of their child. for many released after the war some very good memories and with it the history of this camp now more than 60 years later. >> said the government comes to the department and says we have a deal for you.

we will reunite you with your families and the crystal city internment camp come in the same internment camp if you'll agree to go voluntarily and then i discovered what the real secret of the camp was. they also had to agree to voluntarily repatriate to germany into japan if the government decided they needed to be repatriated. so the truth of the matter is the camp was humanely at mr. bayh the ims had bit the special war division and department of state use it as roosevelt's primary prisoner exchange and the center. >> i really want to talk about

ferguson. the reason i want to talk about ferguson is there so many different levels of emotions associated with ferguson and the whole idea that this is 2014 and you can get killed walking down the street as a young black male with a hoodie on, having gone just because. so it is clear because i thought that when i became an attorney that we had all of a sudden shifted place where i was going to be able to be like a champion for justice. i didn't know that i was going to have to navigate so she logically through stuff and racial status and biases and

that kind of stuff. so that is why the book was written because it is sort of like my swan on to be a criminal defense attorney and saying you know, this is real. it is not something from our past when you know, they killed ms hill. they killed time until and then the civil rights workers change goodman and shores. and we saw those horrific images and they all came before after the murder in philadelphia. and then we get to 2012, 2011.

even before that it sunk into my consciousness when george zimmerman was found not guilty. and really i had done outlines in the book a year or so prior to that. and i followed the trial, just sort of on the periphery of the zimmerman trial in florida because i knew how this was supposed to end on some level he's going to be found guilty of something. let's start and i mean, it was like the press left my body and i was in washington d.c. with my sorority and when it came out on

a saturday night and sunday morning and i hope i'm not releasing some day and. we went to the ecumenical survey said there was 10000 of african-american women at the ecumenical service. and we collect weekly waft for not just martin, but for the fact we have been 2014 and black lifestyle doesn't matter.

>> andersen would talk about something they called the network society. the network society as a society where everything that can benefit from having a connection to actually having one. we put this forward in 2009 in barcelona in the tree show that is going on bair but the connected devices in 2020 which was caught very well in the world. that holds in many peoples mind that the industry is not limited to the smartphones and devices we carry around personally. it is also the great technology that collects the many other things to build a better society based on those. the internet started with dial-up connections, dial-up connections come et cetera. we got the internet from being somewhere to your home. we dropped the internet from being your home to be with every device you carry around or the mobile internet. it's about taking it from all these mobile devices and

connecting not just people, but things with people, information with people so we can actually create internet of everything. >> welcome to greensboro, north carolina on booktv. or general nathaniel greene, commander of the continental army campaign. >> in these marches some of

them had water dumped on their head from buildings and it was -- it never got to the point where i was old and it was nice. it was never nice. it was just more than the city could handle. at least about unanimity and solidarity and okay, we are all in this together. i grew up in ohio. ohio was a little less segregated. not less racist, but less segregated. so while i grew up in ohio and i understood that things were different in the south, i also grew up in a family that was very sophisticated about politics and what the situation

was. so i knew both sides of the coin and how i felt about it was of course it was done just and it needed to be changed. my father was very much involved in african-american right as a social worker and he works for the national urban league. so i was not unaware of any of this and what this meant to black america. essentially, life was like what it was for the rest of african-american and particularly in the south. it was a matter of jim crow segregation. if we went downtown to the movie we had to sit in the balcony in the poor section. if we went to a place to eat we may or may not and probably not

get served. what happened is that they enjoyed telling selling you their snacks, but you had to stand at the end of the room and eat them. you couldn't sit down at the counter. in most other places you could not eat in the restaurant. in some stores, clothing stores come the ui not welcome whether you have the money or not. but basically it was life doubtless separate and segregated and second-class citizenship. when people begin to think the same way and somebody else begins to think the same way and ideas take off for reasons that nobody quite understands. and i think it was time. you know people were fed up in sick and tired of being sick and

tired of being second-class citizens. and so they all had that same kind of sent that it's time to do something. dr. king came to bennett college and in 1958 and there were things going on school desegregation, which was a big deal in america in 1854-55. the supreme court decision. so all of that is going on. here on this campus the campus have been a college there was a student naacp chapter. as always had student chapters and particularly in historically black colleges and so of course we had a chapter in the chapter had an advisor, a couple of the risers. in the course of meeting with

the advisers and the students who were members of course a lot of conversations took place about what can we do to make things better? do we need to be doing anything? other people are doing things another part of the country. so over more than a year, there were conversations about what we could do any kind of boiled down to let's look and see what can be done. and so those meetings took base right here on this campus in the student union and they were combined and the bennett college advisors and so on. so there were plans made and those plans btm in the fall of

1959 and somewhere along the way, they were advised by the president of bennett college whose sad you should really not do this until after christmas vacation because if you start this and then you go home for vacation, the momentum and energy and louisiana from will be broken and you have to kind of start all over again in the winter. so that is why it got put off from december of 59. that is why when they came back from christmas vacation. we had a long break on college campuses most of january people work on. so we got back end of january

and the amt filers decided they were going to kind of go downtown and fit in with out having a meeting with us. for that kind of jump the gun. but the planning for it was essentially done and it was not -- it was spontaneous and said they decided to take the bull by the horns but they woke up that day and it was a new idea. i went there on the third day. so the guys had gone down on the first and second. here is the third day and they are expecting mass at that time. they know something is going to happen. so number one it's quiet. numbers two, the lunch counter which was very long and lined

up. it was quite intimidating because most of the seats were empty i remember when i got there except for amt and bennett college. most everybody else was like i'm not going down there because anything might happen. it is quiet and we go and sit down and wait you know, to see what is going to happen. a waitress came by with a tray of nines. she was so nervous that the knives were rattling. i was so nervous that i didn't know what she might be doing. i could tell that she was scared. she was as scared as i was. we sat there with our textbooks, trying to study. i remember her saying we can serve you well or we don't serve

collard. we have to ask you all to leave. so we had this instruction that just don't say anything. just keep singing. don't say anything. if they ask you what you would like to ask for a cup of coffee. but they never asked us what we wanted because they'd nail they were going to serve us. so i sat there for at least an hour and i think we had our shifts. we had it planned so if you went at 9:00 you are back on campus by 10:30 are your 11:00 class. and we had cars that went back and forth also people volunteering transportation. i don't know driving. to this day i don't remember. i was too nervous to remember who was driving us in dropping

us off and that same person would be better in an hour to pick up and bring us back. so it's quite nerve-racking exciting. you had the sense you are doing something very important. but they weren't hospitals. i don't think they wanted to provoke anybody. now in terms of people from wherever they came from, i don't know if. you know you had a lot of young, white guys hanging around yelling, make in bad remarks. today i remember that happening was the day i was picketing. and the corridor beyond tough guys drove by and said ugly

things and racial epithets and all kinds of things. that was very unnerving. i was like are we going to get out of this okay? and then there were incidents within the five and nine stores. as the weeks went on the incident got to be really scary. they were people who try to provoke especially the men who were sitting in at the counter. somebody got earned with a cigarette stub. but they were trying to do was provoke us out of nonviolent. so jostling people. i wasn't present for that, but all that is in my book. i interviewed a lot of people. many of them have received nonviolent training.

and were very committed to this way. this is the way you do this. you know we are very connected to.irking philosophy and had been made even some of them had been demonstrations in other places. and so, they called on that discipline don't hit back. don't provoke them. you know, there were techniques they had to use and they believed in nonviolence. and so it was that like in a vacuum. they knew what could happen and some of them had experienced what could have been. i think it was a remarkable exercise in discipline and commitment the movement. so it was not -- it was not a

matter of one night stay and they're going to let it feed. this would not until april and in april they arrested 45 college students and that was i think about 13 men and women were arrested in april and the rest of them -- i don't know i couldn't find the numbers exactly, the names and the numbers. i do know that the newspapers said at least 13 women from bennett were arrested in april. and then there was a moratorium and the time to cool off and try to discuss things. but that was actually july before the war integrated. so this is a tough side. further particular store.

once it was opened, that could mean the rest of greensville was opening. it was just one fight after another you know, intel 1963. greensville was not the first three days. it was wichita where the first event took place. the difference is that it didn't take off in defense of national media and people copycatting and so on. it didn't take off. grantsboro just happened to be everything came together and people got galvanized and imaginations got sparked and said there were sitting in south carolina and florida and all across the country after greensboro. the fight had just started in greensboro. okay, what are we going to do about these other restaurants in

the movies than what are we going to do? so they tried to keep alive as jesse jackson said keep hope alive, by having meetings and you know energizing people. ..

and then it picked up again. and here again i can't tell you why. you know there are mysterious things that happened in history. and people began to say okay, and the national congressional some national people were sent down to help and began to have organized sit-ins at the hotshots. it was a restaurant called the hotshots. and that the mayfair cafeteria and at the movies. and the more they did the more people joined. and so i 1962 you've got this continuing pressure on the city, marches and so on which are

growing. and finally this culminates in the police department beginning to arrest people for trespassing. and that's when you have 250 bennett women who get arrested in 1963. kind of huge push for integration. meantime in washington you've got president lyndon johnson's efforts to support the civil rights movement and all the things that are going on nationally and so, you know, looks to us in greensboro like, you know, this is really, it's past time for you to open the city. so what happened in greensboro was this a growing mass movement with adults community people, clergymen, teachers, work

people, all kinds of people, and students all converging in mass marches downtown, and volunteering to get arrested. so we filled up the jails to the point where they had to start begging people not to get arrested. and that was a whole struggle. that was like here at bennett college they tried to tell my aunt to call offer girls and tell them to come back to the campus and she said no, i'm not doing that. they have the right and if i have to give exams in jail that's what i will do. and guys had a struggle with the president. they finally had to call them out of jail because a&e is a state school and there was pressure from the governor. -- amt. it became a tussle between the city and the colleges and

african-american community. and we weren't going to give up at that point. they couldn't keep arresting 200 people to they didn't have anywhere to put these people. they were housing the girls are at bennett warehouse not just, not downtown at the police station but at an old hospital with the polio epidemic had been, and out at the armory because they didn't have anywhere to put them. they had 30 some girls in one room with five mattresses. but, you see, when you are doing this kind of movement and you've got them on the run it's like there's no way we are going to make it easy for you by not getting arrested. as long as you have this position that if you go in this restaurant, you are trespassing and we're going to arrest you

okay. so ago in the restaurant knowing they're going to arrest you. if you stop going in the restaurant, you have said we are wrong and you are right. okay? so that's your problem if you don't anywhere to put me. all you have to do is arrest me for trespassing and serving in distress on the whole thing will be solved. but, so you know, that some nonviolent direct -- -- direct action work. you don't do anything wrong. you just put people in a position where they have to see that they are wrong. you would be interested to know that greensboro was the last city of any major size in north carolina to integrate. having been the first to experience the sit-ins when you

talk about a formative experience, putting vat, opening the door and getting in that car, you know, it was like okay this is it. that particular moment said to me this is a huge part of who you are. that you will take a stand for what is right, and you will not worry about the implications of this, and the risks that you are taking. this is who you are and you do this out of love. you don't do this out of rage and anger. you do it out of love. >> during booktv's recent visit to greensboro, north carolina, and we toured the university of north carolina at greensboro's special collection of pamphlets and memoirs which provide insight into the evolving role of women in the military. >> we stop by the university of

north carolina at greensboro to learn about the changing roles of women in the military for the universities book archives. >> women in the war. u.s. navy nurses lined up for inspection the new summer uniforms. every day new legions are being called to active duty afloat and ashore. ready to follow the plea to any battlefront, these traditional angels of mercy know but one code, service to humanity. women as always the heroes of all wars. >> women have always served in some role in the wars of our country. in the revolutionary war women would follow their husbands to battle and help out with cooking, laundry, volunteer nursing. some of our earliest materials are some of the civil war. this is a 1910 publication put

out either citizens executive committee of atlantic city new jersey offering the civil war army nurses of the union army -- honoring the civil war army nurses. i'm not sure the occasion was but they have current photos and little biographies of some of the women who serve. one of the things in special collections we really want to try to collect books that might not be put out by major publishers. so here's a selection of biographies and autobiographies including the first women's army auxiliary corps, which in world war ii when we are fighting suddenly decides nurses maybe we should have women just for the duration of world war ii to be part. >> general george marshall.

>> conservation of manpower is a matter of first importance. women's army auxiliary corps was organized a meeting this need by releasing soldiers of noncombat duty. these women are to take of the jobs of soldiers behind the lines and here at home. >> so these women wanted to remember, you know, their history was an being collected and they just want to tell their stories. so this is from women in world war ii in the army. he was an army nurse. to army nurses, a combat nurse and martha mccurry who was a lieutenant colonel in world war ii. the wasps by winifred woods. the wasps were not in the military. they were civilian pilots who joined, help in the war effort and as i said they were already trained in sort of by pilots,

they tested planes. they flew planes from factors to where they were needed to help train pilots. they flew for target practice. they did a number of things and they were started in 1943 and they're trying to become part of the military but they were instead disbanded in may to 44. some of the other books in our collection sort of get an overview of the idea of pretty much whether women really should be in the military, what they're worth is as a society come is this a good idea. >> there goes one of those petticoat soldiers now. >> yeah. my sister wants to join. what do you think of that? >> she's crazy. what the devil does a woman wanted a soldier for? >> just a waste of time. >> this is a man's war. >> so when women were made part

of the, special part of the military in world war ii, the idsa mentioned was that this was just going to be for the duration but as soon as the war was over women were just going to be taken away and they were allowed to be nurses. turns out that the military action relight, they thought the women were doing a great job and he wanted to keep women in the military. so in 1948 after much lobbying, women became an official part of u.s. military. they had separate branches and the only, couldn't be more than 2% of each branch and they could only rise up so high. there was a limited number of officer positions for women and they could not rise to general or admiral or anything like this. this is the year the integrated the armed forces, 1948. they were segregated just like the rest of society. the military is the only place where women and, you know

minorities african-americans would be able to receive the same pay as white men. so many other interesting books that we have are actually cartoons. these are all, we don't have any modern-day ones that again, when women were part of the military world war ii, it was just very odd. winnie the wac, a pretty popular cartoonist at the time it so his views, they are almost like pinups, although a few were suddenly, she's outranking men which is pretty odd. but she's still quite early. this person tends to be a bit more, i don't want to have i don't want to say realistic but kind of realistic, and more accurate depiction of what the day-to-day life was for the women. the last type of materials i'm going to show today and talk

about our recruiting materials. so essentially i think these are very important to show the metamorphosis of women's role and perceptions and how you're trying to basically make it okay to society but also make it appealing for women to join. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> in 1918, we were on the sidelines. >> win the war has been won women in the army will march shoulder to shoulder with the men in the great victory parades we celebrate the return to peace to the world. >> so this group is a world war ii and the first started again, looking to focus just on the

army. so the women's army auxiliary corps before women became an official part of the military. the army was the first to sort of militarized women but they did have the same rights and benefits and status. so they would be auxiliary your that was 1942. when the navy accepted women, okay, so the drop auxiliary and women became an effective part of the army. so 42 and 43 were when women started. there's this idea that we are freeing the men to fight. you know women power. very patriotic. enrollment you know it's a brochure showing you what your uniforms were. here we have another page. this woman was the first director of the women's army corps, and again we are focusing on sort of patriotism can do.

these are the three branches you could join. as you can see the u.s. army air force, we didn't have an air force in this country until after world war ii. it was part of the army. you could choose all these jobs decides sort of clerical. you could also, i'm not sure if they gave it to you but you could cercla choose radio operator drivers cooks bakers telephone operators. also some of the women worked in cryptology come things like the. this one gets a little odd. i don't exactly have a year. this could be after world war ii. you notice after world war ii when women are encouraged to go home and there was no women left in the military almost, so the military is like, what can we do to get women back? it seemed to be a lot more focused now on you will retain your femininity, you'll be a normal girl if you joined the this entire book is about

femininity and dating. it would have come she is actually doing a job, so that's good but she's pretty. she wears dresses. she dates officers but apparently she is going to get married. once we hit the '50s and '60s this is one of my all time favorite. barbara, she doesn't really know what to do with her life. she meets a nice non-weirdly at a party. she joins, you know our big concern is of course your uniform. a brand-new beauty. there is no figure in more feminine more bashing more trim, and that of a young woman in a tailored, smartly styled ensemble of the women's army corps. that's a whole different thing than we are joining, we're going to help them in when the world. this is an entire recruiting packet, you know, fashionable choice again you're focusing on fashion in choosing a job.

careers for women. so that's interesting because you get the actual letters that were written to the recruiters. and '70s and 80s with some materials but now anytime i see a recruiting station, i run up to them. i tried to click and see if they have any materials that were not necessarily targeting women anymore but at least and the recruiting brochures they are considered an equal part of the military. a collection analyzes sort of women in society, women in the military. so it's specific stores but it's also bigger, bigger issues in our culture. women, you know they still you know, feel very undervalued. almost between 10 and 15% of the

armed forces, and they just have a different experience. what we are learning from oral history in world war ii they were considered separate, and now they're more integrated so the issues are different. but some women had very good each variant is, some women had very bad experiences, but even the ones who had bad experiences they are proud of their service. that's kind of why i read this. just to make sure this history is preserved. >> love and loyalty to one's country have never been exclusive attributes of men. women, too, throughout american history have been concrete evidence of their devotion. american women have always taken a full care of their responsibility. today, as in the past, our women will meet the challenge.

>> that i will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. >> and that i would love a -- >> and that i will obey. >> the orders of the president of the united states and the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulation and the uniform code of military justice. >> so help me god. >> so help me god. >> booktv this week is in greensboro, north carolina. next we talk with mark elliott whose book "color blind justice" follows the life of albion tourgee, a leading proponent of racial equality during the latter part of the 19th century. >> his novel of fool's errand which was in his son the best selling fiction list account of his own life having moved to

greensboro, north carolina after the civil war and taking part of the reconstruction of the state. i became fascinated in him and his story in trying to find out how much of that was included in a fictionalized account was through history. before albion tourgee moved here, he grew up in the northeastern part of ohio which was then known as the western reserve of ohio which were has been so mostly by families from new england and his own family was from massachusetts. he grew up there and he lived on before. he was a farm boy growing up. he was the first in this film to go to college. which he had to pay on his own dime because his father wouldn't support the idea of going to college. he went off to the university of rochester. he had wanted to go to harvard but that was too expensive for him. he could only pay and he only had enough to pay for when you

rochester entities are working and rochester try to save money to pay for more college when the civil war broke out. tourgee was one of the first volunteers to respond to actually less than 48 hours after lincoln put out a call for troops, he signed up. he was out of school. he saw a new direction for himself there, and eventually when he fought in the war he was injured pretty severely at first at the first battle of bull run. he injured his back severely so severely that he was paralyzed for a number of months. he actually rehabilitated that injury and went back to the front and served again for more than a year in an ohio regiment but he reinjured the back and suffered various other entries, shrapnel -- injuries, traveled to he finally called it quits at the end of 1863. and went back in finished school

and got a lot of great. we need originally moved to north carolina, he came as part of the group. he came with his wife, his wife's family which included her sisters and his wife's parents and some of his friends who were business partners. tourgee himself that a law degree and all came down because it was cheap land and good business opportunity. and the state of north carolina was actively recruiting people with the capital to invest in skills to help lead and sort of a modernization of the state. so he came with expectations that is going to be part of a kind of a wider movement of just bringing north carolina to the modern world. but what happened was he got caught up in politics what was going on when in the initial stages of reconstruction, african-americans who have been

emancipated during the war were being forced back into conditions almost exactly like those that they had under slavery. and tourgee was one of the many people who said we fought to end the system. this is not what, this is not the result of the war that i fought for. so he became part part of politics and he became actually a leader of the state, a friend of the north carolina constitution of 1868. he was one of the most influential delegates at that convention and wrote a good portion of the constitution and later serve as a superior court judge during the years 1868-1874 when the clan was at its height of trying to overthrow people like him who were in power in the state government and to intimidate black voters in poor white voters would come out to support the republican party and what their program is all about. and reinstall the old order.

when he gutted it was a lot of political ferment and there's a scene in the novel with the main character, who ism is dragged up on stage because a lot of white southerners are having a meeting and they say, we want to know what you think. here's one of them. here's one of people of the people that come here and who are leading this, tell us what you think it is dragged up on stage. eventually does tell them what he thinks, reluctantly. i suspect something very similar to that happens to tourgee but pretty soon he is given speeches. 's speeches are being reprinted in the newspaper. he is chosen to go represent southern republicans at a conference in philadelphia where he goes and he talks with some of the atrocities that are going on. one of the things he mentioned the story that he heard from a quaker in greensboro of 15 blacks murdered, bodies dragged

from a pond. the pond was in south carolina. the story goes out to greensboro and they say he is lying. the north is making up stories. they claim 15 bodies were found in a greensboro pond. a lot of misinformation goes out and pretty soon there's death threats on his life. people want his family to lead. his business partners sever ties with them. so he's sort of forced into this moment where he makes it clear that the stories wasn't about greensboro but he sticks to his story. he sticks to his sources, and eventually when he comes back he decides to make a stand and he joins the republican party. he gets elected to the constitutional convention here as representative of guilford county. one of the things the documents

i have and i discuss in the book, is the listing of i think it was 15 points that tourgee would advocate as a representative to the constitutional convention. and one was quality of all people, regardless of race quality of rights of all people quality -- the quality of boat grip on. free education for everyone in the state which all of those things would end up being in the constitution and guaranteed by the constitution. and changing the tax code to put the burden of taxation back on my him and in so those are pretty radical program and it really meant, it was not just a revolution in making the moxie stretched across racial lines but also the class privilege which is a big part of the power structure in north carolina.

he was causing all kinds of racial lines and that really made him, that they this city off the site into certain degree but socially he was a much excluded. he was always viewed as a peculiar figure, sort of marginal to the social life of town. but they were fastened with them and respected him in a lot of ways. and, of course he helped to found bennett college. is part of the founding, that school from his property. and so for the black community, in greensboro they saw tourgee as a powerful friend and certainly a trusted figure. as a justice he also was heavily criticized for what some people thought was biased towards african-americans.

on the other hand, the black community sometimes criticized because they felt he wasn't tailoring enough towards them. so we did get criticism from both sides. eventually he was actually praised by a lot of conservative justices who said that he did apply the law fairly to all people, even when it was dangerous for him to do so. and there are times when he wrote editorials in the newspaper. one of those editorials i got the title of my book from where he says that the law the law is always depicted blind injustice should be at least colorblind. and in that attitude because i will know no man by the hue of his skin. that was his epic in the courtroom. i think you get hold of that and there's plenty of examples to back up. probably his most important contribution after the fool's

errand and death of the reconstruction period ended up being in the 1890s when he found one of the first national civil rights organizations. he founded it in a response to the ways of lynchings that were starting to take place. in the south. he was come in this column he is divided up lynching as he learned of them. he often learned of them by getting letters directly from blacks in the south. writing on things that were not being reported or the reporter into some out of the way newspaper and they would send him a clipping and there was no national press on a. he started to report on lynching, on the jim crow laws in new orleans when it passed the sepracor act. he said, he called on the people of new orleans to protest his act. this act required citizens, i'm sort of required railroad to segregate citizens into cars marked colored and white. he said this is a violation of the 14th amendment.

they shouldn't obey this. they should basically called on them to, you know to protest this law. when the citizens of new orleans did that they've been contacted tourgee and asked if you help lead a constitutional case against the separate car act. so as head of the ncr a which is a national citizen's rights association, tourgee brought a case that went all the way to the supreme court a man named homer plex he was an activist in new orleans refused to get out of the white car and filed a lawsuit against the railroad and eventually the lawsuit was upheld by the supreme court. tourgee side of law in the case and it was a devastating law because the plessy v. ferguson case and ferguson is the judge in the original local case, the

plessy v. ferguson case established the principle that became known as a separate but equal principle to separate but equal answer came from the law itself. it required that the railroad provide separate but equal and the law said equal but separate compartments for each raise. what does that mean by equal? the supreme court said, hey, if you want to sue that they're not keeping their end of the bargain, accommodation are not equal, go ahead and do that but we don't see anything on the face of this law that violates the 14th 14th a minute, which guarantees all citizens equal protection under the law. tourgee had made a series of very innovative arguments against this law. partly he brought back his old principle that the law must be colorblind. he said the law can't classify people as white or colored. it doesn't have that power. citizens are citizens.

and then he went on to make a number of other points, including that you have to look at the whole history of slavery win you are classifying people by race because this is not a benign classification, like silly counter arguments said we have ladies rooms and men's room. but he said that is a different classification of race to race the purpose is to stigmatize one race as inferior and not worth the of consorted with another. in the dissenting opinion of justice john marshall high lincoln these our constitution is colorblind and does no color and distinctions among citizens. that is a paraphrasing of tourgee's argument to him in his brief. civil rights activist in the '50s looked back to that brief, the dissent in the plessy case as one of the documents when they challenged the

legality of the segregation. and the supreme court in brown v. board of education, they look back to that as well. that case explicitly says the decision in plessy was wrong and must be overturned. and very few times in american history that one supreme court will look back and say a previous supreme court decision was outright wrong. at the end of his life he said all i have done has been a waste, it's all you know, been for nothing. we are in the worst place we've ever been. much worse than under slavery. so he felt the world was heading in a terrible direction instead of more equality and people being judged not on things like the color of their skin, the society was becoming more based on those things. so yeah personally i can see

the longer road and i can see that those ideals that he had didn't die out. when he reached the end of his life they were in a bad place but they came back again. so that struggle continues, you know. i guess it all remains to be seen. >> while in greensboro we spoke with charles bolden, author of "poor whites of the antebellum south" which recounts the experiences of poor whites in the pre-civil war south. >> there have been books written about almost all groups in the south. planters non-slaveholding landed farmers go often called yeoman farmers, and, of course, the slaves. there's been a lot written about slavery but there has been much written about the poorest white group in the south. i defined the poor whites the people who were landless and sleeveless, and the ribs anywhere from anywhere between

20-40% of the white population, depend on where you look and yet there have been very written -- very little written about these folks. but i wanted to see what i could find out just kind of see what their lives were about and kind of add to the story of what life was like in the antebellum south. i focus my study into specific areas. central north carolina which includes greensboro where we are now, and northeast mississippi. i need to look at a very focused in hopes i could start to identify some real individuals that might belong to this social class. in looking at papers of wealthier people, sometimes they talk about these people, sometimes there would be leaders. usually one was poorly written because they oftentimes were illiterate. and there were some county level records that were created north carolina had an insolvent debtor's law. so when people have to apply to take the benefit for the law they had to file documents the

what kind of property they owned, which gave me some information about these peoples people's lives. and then event information actually in criminal records. one of the places where they became visible was when they were prosecuted for various crimes and they would oftentimes be great details there. a little bit a problematic source because most of the people that i was talking about were not criminals, but they shared some of the same aspects of life in terms of what they did for jobs what their family relationships were like you know, that these people who in his criminal records you could see that. i have very few voices of these people put a lot of what i have is looking at their circumstances through these various records. the book starts off with kind of an amazing story. i did find one autobiography of a poor white men, as far as i know that's really the only

full-blown autobiography we have a poor white men. one of the things that's made the study of slavery so rich in many ways is that we have the wonderful slave narratives that were recorded in the 1930s. we have these great stories about slavery. we don't have as much or hardly anything like that for poor whites. but this one story was a man who had been born and grew up in a mining town in north georgia. like a lot of poor whites he moved around looking for work into alabama, tennessee. even went to arkansas, couldn't make it there. couldn't get land we came back and ended up in north carolina come in central north carolina where he took a job in 1859 taking ditches for a local landowner. they got into his a dispute about his weight. he murdered the man and was eventually executed by the state of north carolina, but before he did, his defense attorney, and

at si dubious defense attorney was writer from greensboro, took down his life story. and so we know a lot of details about, for instance, all these there is jobs he, the fact that he was so mobile, the same things a lot of poor whites did not he is very typical because he was a murderer and not many of the poor whites to talk about our murderers. but having come i don't have those kinds of voices or those kind of individual personalities that come through the way that he does because those doors those documents just don't exist for people in this social class. i have a lot of fragments which iare trying to put together to kind of tell the story. they really kind of filled in as a casual labor force, kind of plugging some of the holes in the labor needs of either people who owned slaves or non-slaving holding farmers who didn't own slaves. but sometimes use their labor. so when they were farmers there sometime tenant farmers where

they would usually pay a share of the crop they made to their land owner as their rent or they might even be sharecroppers. both of these are more like a people to look at the south after the civil war, but this existed before the civil war. sharecroppers were laborers were paid their wages in food and crop. but they also did other things. they were day laborers. many of them would sometimes find themselves just working in the fields for a few days for a farmer or even a plan to pick put sometimes they would be working side-by-side with slaves in the field. they worked on the railroad's. they mind. especially in north carolina there was a lot of mining concerns. there were even some early lumber mills and cotton mills in these areas. they would find jobs there but most other jobs are temporary to so they would typically they would be living in whatever kind of a dwelling that they could

throw together which are oftentimes very makeshift. sometimes they might be living on a place that would be on somebody at a news land, whatever kind of building that was there. in looking at the property list of these folks in things like the debtor's records, the most common property that they had to come they usually had some kitchen utensils so that was easy to carry around. they usually have some furniture but very limited. usually a bed which again was something that could be easily moved. they had some clothing but not very much. they would usually have an overcoat which would certainly need in north carolina in the winter, but limited clothing limited furniture, limited -- at oftentimes many of them also had some livestock, maybe a hawk or a cow. the reason why they were able to have the livestock was at that

time it was still a system of kind of common rights of labor even if you didn't owned land, your livestock could still graze on other people's land because and this is something in most of the south changed after the civil war. so before the civil war usually you have defense and put a fence around your crops so that nobody could damage your crops. you couldn't fence and all of your lan. the part that wasn't being used for agriculture was common land and people could use it for the livestock to run around on, defeat. so they did need to feed the livestock but it was good at that because it would provide at a certain point, you can have some good meals if you owned a hog or a cow. oftentimes they would receive these things as payment for jobs that they did. so the life was it was one where kind of constantly looking for work but one of the things

i found is that the people who did stay in a particular area and this is more common in north carolina, one of the things i found about the people the went to mississippi, if they didn't get land pages with someone somewhere else because they're going to look somewhere else. it is a group in north carolina the ones who did leak they tended to stick around but even in, say one of the counties in central north carolina, you would find in different parts of the county. they obviously are moving around a lot, living in different places and kind of makeshift housing. but very mobile. if one word to describe more than anything else it was they were extremely mobile. how they were perceived by people above them in the social scale a lot of wealthier white people would've looked down on them. they would would deal with someone the many had to, when they needed some

labor. but like i said, they saw it as a bit of a troubling presence because they were not you know, white people were not supposed to be these depended impoverished people. slavery was supposed to lift up all whites. and so they were definitely seen as kind of a troubling kind of presence within the antebellum south. interestingly black people often talk about poor whites. there's some good evidence about sometimes cooperation across racial lines between whites and poor blacks. but in some cases blacks, you know, looked down on poor whites as well. felt that they were better off than poor whites. they sometimes made that comment to that in itself is something that could undermine the whole notion of slavery, if black people start to think that they were better than white people these impoverished white people. so in general i think they would have looked down upon by most

people above them in the social system. and one reason that they're kind of characterized as being the way that most white southerners characterized them come it was not just about economics, which is kind of what i am arguing. s. part of their power is a result of economics but it was cultural because you kind of your the same thing today right? it's not just that people are poor because it's about economic situation, but they are poor because they're not doing the right things in their personal lives. they are drunkards or they don't have the right family life, or something is wrong with them culturally. i think a lot of whites above them at the time a that same kind of argument. it's not because of economics. it's partly because they choose to be this way. in the slave society of the south, part of the proslavery argument was that slavery would make it possible basically for all white men to be independent

and to prosper. and so that was a very big part of the proslavery argument. of course, on the other side northern abolitionists always talk about slavery basically impoverished all white people except for the planners. neither one of those was correct. actually what happened was slavery didn't provide independence for all white men. it provided a good living for lots of planters come even lots of landed farmers who didn't own slaves were able to make a go of it, but partly slavery prevented those people who didn't owned land road from being able to make it economically. in north carolina one of the things that make difficult for them is that increasingly it became hard to buy land if he did have the resources. in the 1850s in this part of north carolina, the central piedmont, agriculture was become increasingly commercialized.

the railroad was built through here in the 1850s, the north carolina central railroad. so you see this dramatic increase in farmers growing tobacco and also growing more week. they could sell the surplus wheat and sell tobacco to market. what happened was there was a rise in the price of land. so while there was always somewhat difficult for people who did not resources to get land committed to their family connections, it became even more difficult as time went on. by the agency's -- the 1850s the price of land was out of reach. many got trapped. some of them who stayed with the kind of this permanent lower-class that existed. a lot of them left and went to places like mississippi, which i studied the one of the things that made it difficult for them to get land there is that land was perceived as being very valuable as cotton land.

from the moment the land, northeast mississippi the land was taken from the chickasaw indians, and there was supposed to a government land sale which the land would go up like $1.25 an acre. but well before those government land sales were held, because the land was perceived as being so valuable, land speculation, a lot of it backed by northern capital and are even northern companies involved, bought up the lane to the land authority been sold more than once usually before the government land sale was even held. so by the time the sale was held, the price was four or five times that $1.25 an acre. so that made it difficult for the poor whites that were migrated in from the east into places like northeast mississippi to be able to purchase land. if we want to understand the nature of the antebellum south i mean we need to understand all the different social groups and this was one those were left out. but do also think it's important

to understand, i think, hope the book that helps people understand about the nature of poverty within american society you know whatever kind of economic systems that we have had, their have always been some people who have not been able to benefit from those systems and there've been these people who have been impoverished, and understanding the struggles those people face within these there is economic systems including this one which was a slave system, i think helps us understand more about kind of the things that lead to people being impoverished and being not just impoverished temporarily, but kind of overtime and the kind of struggles that they have to deal with. so i hope that provide some understanding of kind of the nature of american poverty in a broader scheme of things.

>> while in greensboro, booktv visited the get rid of north carolina at greensboro special collection of world war i propaganda. >> so we're in the reading room here in special collections in universe archives and jackson liber at the university of north carolina at greensboro. we will be looking at a collection produced and come we have over 450 world war i pamphlets better and are holding. so we are going to do a walk through today. what really stands out with this collection is that it really runs the gamut of combatant countries during world war i. so the our pamphlets, heavy representation of pamphlets great britain, france, belgium there's a large collection from the united states but we also have pamphlets from the austrian hungarian empire, the german empire. we've have some templates from russia as well. i'd like to show a number of

examples of the collection itself and at that we would do this sort of chronologically. one of the first examples appearances of pamphlets that happened very shortly after the outbreak of the war, the war breaks out in august of 1914 and you start to see pamphlets being produced by combatant countries talking about the war. whatever document at the time is fixing blame on who caused the war. and for individual countries who were getting involved with this war, many of them recognized a need that they need to influence their own public opinion, people behind the support of the war to sustain the war effort and in to mobilize that population for a very lengthy and bloody war itself. what i noticed was a couple of these pet the beginning was a discussion about germany itself. the allies really play off of the theme of german blame and

there's a long discussion about what drove germany to war. but a lot of the allied pamphlets talk about that some of there's this inherent german militarism. is a pamphlets i have in front of me here are examples of both british and american pamphlets that talk about german culture. it's interesting because when the kaiser wilhelm makes a speech about germany going into war, he talks about the need to protect the fatherland and germany culture to what he was talking about was the german way of life. but british translators and propagandists pick up on that and talk about german coke as being somehow inherently militaristic, nationalistic and expansionistic. so the pamphleteer talk about this bush for germany to dominate central europe, they need to push into the middle east and also to be very

competitive in terms of callings overseas. the pamphlets to my right are really best debate start early in what i find absolutely fascinating. and i was really familiar with british propaganda, french propaganda in which they looked at diplomatic cables and walk the reader through the events that led up from the assassination of the heir apparent to the austro-hungarian empire to the outbreak of order the history of 12 days basically takes you, these are cables, french and british cables a talk about the work experience. some of these other ones do the same thing. you have actually french and british intellectuals and historians being asked to write documents. they looked at early diplomatic cables and pumped out these templates to talk about. what i really think is

fascinating about our collection is we have a counter response to you have german pamphlets talking about the events that led up to the war. you haven't austro-hungarian book that also keeps its own set of tables that talk to leading up to the war and to each fixing blame. the red book, the blame is on austria hungarian. it is on the country of serbia. they blame serbia for the cost of the war and then they throw in russia which was the ally of serbia as really the aggressor that really pushed the war forward. the germans tend to blame russia for this as well as the british sort of pushing their weight in come into the war enforcing german into what they think is a defensive war. on the other side, the french general lee blame the germans because germany invaded. they were occupying northern france. the blame usually lies with germany itself.

this is all being sent to the american public and the united states itself was deeply divided about the war. you have a very pro-war leap of informal civilian groups that supported great britain and opted on that site but you also had the very significant german american population who were very sympathetic to germany itself that germany might have been forced into it. but i think it goes a fundamental issue of how do these industrial countries that previously that had interlocking military alliances and international crises before world war i they had all worked these issues out before. thread been times before within sort of put a that look like european countries were going to work but they hadn't. they usually work it out through an international mediation and negotiation. and for many europeans they couldn't figure out why they couldn't have solved this issue. i think there's sort of a

political reason for these documents but fundamentally they are trying to respond to their general populace that they couldn't quite figure out why these countries are going to war. they didn't necessarily really think they needed to go into. officially the united states was a neutral country. it wanted to at least officially do business with all the parties, and the idea of freedom of information and press so the allowed this literature to coming to they were tracking it, there it aware of it, very unaware of each of the indices in the united states trying to influence public opinion as well. the wilson administration was very concerned about sort of being pushed one way or another. so there's a lot of posturing going on by the combatant countries, and also i think it was a sensitivity that they were also trying to influence the

method of public opinion. that becomes a political issue for wilson as well especially in the 1960 election where you of your being at war for two years, the question is what is the united states going to do? it's very clear by 1916 that the united states is trading heavily with great britain and france and less so with germany. then there's the question of germany itself it's now an occupying country. it is occupied belgium and parts of luxembourg as well as northern france. one of the big themes at least for britain belgium and france is a discussion about atrocity. that somehow the germans -- the german army was in its willingness to break an international treaty which was the neutrality of belgium, that they were somehow a rogue army that was breaking international

convention. prior to world war i you had a number of international treaty conventions to talk about war and the proper conventions of fighting a modern war. and so this group of pamphlets here really does talk about those types of attacks on the civilian population, not just on the military. it's talking about how the civilian population is coming about. so things like german atrocities atrocities, titles like they dishonored army which is a great example called through the iron bars which talk to the occupation of belgium by german troops. and that talk about things like rape slave driver using civilians to build munitions for them. and they draw them some of them draw on what they claim as

documents from these occupied areas. fascinating in looking at this whole mix the documents is that the atrocities has picked up again in the germans themselves come up with their own documents, a cabinet if this is what actually have belgian documents that we have uncovered when occupying belgian that the effects it was really the belgian government that is fabricating these atrocity stories. they tried to create a candidate. what i think is interesting is by 1917 the united states is also publishing propaganda about this atrocity. so it's not gone away by 1914-1917. it is being picked up again in the united states is using it in their own sort of explanation of why they're going to work. a number of these templates are really talking about why justification of why britain is in the war and why they are

establishing a blockade. you have counter responses by americans talking about the need for freedom of the seas, having the international right to trade. but you are starting to see by 1916 1915, 1916 templates coming up talking about u-boats and german crime, sinking neutral shipping at that time. so this sort of gives you a new sense of what is being said dealing with trade and also with in american politics. and the next group of pamphlets, this is i think a real fascinating collection because these are collections that are being created by the united states itself. the pamphlets were look at prior to this are from different countries that are involved in the war, and with the

declaration of war in april of 1917, president wilson establishes a committee, the committee for public information. and the head of the committee is a gentleman named john crowell. he was a supporter of president wilson. he was a newspaper man. he was a reformer, a strong backer of wilson. and he is appointed into this position sort of deck chair of the committee. this committee actively quickly ramps up in 18 months to really drive a message about the war itself. i think the united states realizes that they need to get behind, they need to get the american public behind this war. wilson is concerned about conscription and if the united states civilians are going to support a conscription to

mobilize, to get been mobilized to join an army and sent to fight in a foreign war. he was quite interested and quite concerned about the influence of propaganda from combatant countries that we are now at war with. and he's also concerned about pacifist groups that might have an antiwar message, counter message to what he wants to do. so he is chair of the committee for public information. he's also appointed to the censorship board. so they have some informal censorship rules that he is issuing to the american press newspapers, but there's also some state pressure for people to sort of self censor messages people we have here is a number of documents that were being published by the committee on

public information you it's a fascinating story. they start to publish their own national newspaper about the war effort. just telling people what's going on in the war from an allied perspective. they begin to start publishing these war information series, these pamphlets about world war i, and they published over 100 pamphlets using american academics. so they are mobilizing the academic community. this is a council that then gains control over films but they have their own film group their own war photography division. they have divisions dealing with foreign nationals, divisions did with women and work. it's a massive effort and you never refer to it as propaganda grew sort of information sharing. so if you got the message then you really understood why the united states was going to war. these all do with the financing of the war, and this is another issue that americans have to really deal with besides

conscription and the draft. ever going to be issues about taxation. how are you going to sustain a war and pay for that war? and so concerns about that and then also how do you get in fusions of cash now? so there were a number of what were called liberty loan campaigns during world war ii. they were referred to as war bonds. here you are sort of raising money for the war effort. they had a lot of propaganda posters, big public events to support these things, but you also pamphlets talking about what are we doing with that money? how are we financing the war? and how do you go about saving money yourself so you could participate in the liberty loan campaign. there were multiple campaigns going on. the idea was that it wasn't just your mobilizing men to fight in a foreign war. you are mobilizing a homefront

and that was another lesson that i think the united states had to very quickly. there had been propaganda before. they were recruiting posters and other wars but we have mass media now. just have daily newspapers. some cities have 10 newspapers going a day. some in the morning, so many afternoon but you also have no film. so newsreels going on. you have the telegraph, information coming along the people are a little more connected. that's why this type of propaganda effort is so huge. it was a real distaste after the war of the idea of being manipulated for propaganda, and there was definitely a pushback by congress. i think it was a popular sense of being manipulated which may have influenced postwar politics. and a concern may be of also state power at that time.

>> and now on booktv, a literary tour of greensboro north carolina. we start our trip with jerry bledsoe and jerry neal whose book "fire in the belly" tells the story of rf micro devices, a company whose microchip helped make the mobile phone industry possible. time warner is our local cable partner in greensboro. >> we are here with the jerry bledsoe, co-author of fire in the belly. ..

and there was a letter from jerry stanek he will just comment top to me, you know, comment talks to me, let him buy you lunch, so i called his assistant, kathy and said look tell him i will comment just to get him to quit either in me. i will come and have lunch with him, but i'm not going to write in a book. so i went in all of a sudden i changed my mind once i met him did >> chester neil, why did you think it was important for this book to be read? >> the company was growing and has grown extremely fast. i wanted some and that primarily could be passed down to future

employees so that they would not lose the essence of what happened in the early days of the company and through this extremely rapid change. and so in order very familiar with a lot of different business books. i didn't want to do a traditional business book. i wanted to do a book that actually told a story. i figured that is the easiest way to learn is through stories then rather a bunch of tax. for people that have read jerry's work they know he's a master storyteller and the best in the biz ness. this is exactly what i need. a very funny guy. once we discovered that end laughing and joking we could

work humor into a story about a business. actually it worked pretty well i thought because i was reading some of it this weekend and laughing matter. so you do the many business books with humor. first of all i did a chapter that followed the story of communications from the time the first electric current flow through a wire. so i went back and all through the whole development, one whole chapter just brings this story to the point where we are now in communications, we're worldwide instantly you can communicate with almost anybody. that was not the same for most of the existence. but that was necessary to set it up so that the average reader could read this story with all these complexities of the way these chips are made the

materials are made way all of those things could actually be told and still keep the reader involved in the story. >> one of the things was that we had probably at least three near-death experience is in the creation of the company. one of the first near-death experiences was concerning a contract that we got at the division of actually toyota that does the electronics for them. they wanted to put a cell phone na car. it seems so common now. as a company we had probably 10 employees. so we contracted with a huge company to do a power amplifier.

the power amplifier is the component that actually provides the energy to send a signal with the cell phone to the tower. so we had never done a power amplifier before. we believed that we could do an extremely small amplifier and all of the amplifiers before someone that we were according to dio had demarche devices. so my partner bill pratt, which won a world class designers we took this contract and we started working on this power amplifier. we got the first samples back from the fabrications facility. this device is about the size of a flake of pepper. it's extremely small. it has gold wires that come out. so you have to look at it under mike or scope to see it and have the instrumentation to look at it. so we got the samples back the

first month after about three months and plug them in and it was unbelievable that it works great from the very first. except it had a problem with it but occasionally it would just vaporize. so the aim is to be working with it and i'll decide who it was gone. so during the course of what we're trying to figure out, the chief scientist dr. don green he wanted to come to our place and see what kind of progress we were making. so we told him this thing has got a book. we prefer you wait a month or two before eucom, but he wouldn't way. we said ok go ahead and calm. we had a little small building. it was 1800 square feet where we

are developing all of this. dr. grant showed up and we had a unit on the work bench and it was operating beautifully and he was lucky not to throw microscope. he reaches a way to get a cup of coffee and when he looks back, it is gone. and so he says that ship is gone. we said well, you know, we said it had a bug in it. that is it. it vaporizes itself. and so he said well, what are you going to do click for my part or bill, he was not a man of a lot of words. he said we are going to fix it. dr. graham was not really comforted by that. he said i need to dictate a memo to the corporate office.

he said on its an privacy. we said okay, when we need privacy we there go into the restroom or we go outside into the parking lot. he said i'll go out of the park is not. so he went out and pulled out a little dictation machine and he is pacing and walking back and forth across the parking lot. we looked at the blinds and that i wonder what he is saying up there. he was dictating mml to tell the parent company to pull all funding for us. you think you guys will never, ever developed even one power amplifier, much less one that we can use. so a week later, they canceled 100% of the business which at the time represented about 80% of our total business. as you can imagine, our

investors working earned. but we did get that thing fixed and it became the signature component for the company. >> most cell phones around the world have this amplifier. would you say without doubt, the mobilephone industry wouldn't be what it is today quite >> that is right. accompanying enables a lot of the miniaturization that took place. >> when those sniper devices were found it what were you doing prior to the company? >> actually, the three of us steve moore bill pratt and myself worked together for over 10 years of analog devices. analog devices was planning to try to do this on their own.

so they sent bill and paolo way to a remote office to start the initial work. well, it turned out that was in late 1988 and they worked for a couple of years and made some progress that was not fast enough for analog devices. and then there was a recession and electronics about that time. so in early 91 in january the corporate officers came down and met with bill and powell and laid them off, gave them a severance package. and gave them a good deal on renting the equipment that they had an actually gave them a license to technology they had developed area nighttime. so i have kept up with bill and paolo were good friends of mine.

they asked me to join them as they founder. of course i didn't really have the money. so i said if i can get myself laid off then i'll join you. so the founder of analog device erase data and boston. so i scheduled a meeting with rate and went to see him and told him that i wanted to be laid off. and get a severance package. so he said he couldn't do that, but if i could get the local people in his burrow to agree me to lay them off, he would agree to it. it took me from -- that was in january and it took me until may to get laid-off and i got laid-off first day of may and laid off at nairn and had my

going away lunch and by 2:00 i was in my office over on friendly avenue working with and paolo with no salaries. >> those are the three. >> they told me the money won't be a problem. so it will be your job to get the money. it was a small amount, to build a million and a half dollars to get it started. so i found out how lonely it can be when you go out for the first time to raise venture money. so that was my job and it took firm may unsettle the following february to raise the million and a half dollars. >> what made you believe that not ms product i guess to leave

your job and leave the salary and go out with you guys and try to read a company and a pretty difficult industry to get started and? >> i would say that the main thing was that i trusted these two guys. i worked with them for 10 years and we have then into the semi conductor business but analog devices. so i have absolute trust in them. right before i got ayer bill had worked on a business plan and i read that business plan and since then earlier in my life i had a house to that was not as successful. i guess i still had that desire to be an entrepreneur and to get back into it. >> he realized the huge

possibilities of everybody being able to talk wherever whenever. i think they thought all of that before anybody else did. that this was possible from october to carry around, tiny computers in our hands can do any thing and research anything and take photos until then everything else. >> is your market share up one of your highest points? >> around 50%. but that's pretty good in an industry like this. >> going through this experience, you know growing the company as big as it became some of the men entre nous are what would you say was one of your biggest lessons? >> several points come to mind. the first name is always hire people that are much smarter

than you are. we had the division and like jerry has talked about he was a genius and he was. we always try to hire people that we thought actually had a great deal of ability maybe more than we did in design or whatever area we were going to do. the next thing was we found that you gave people tools the best tools that they can possibly get. and so you hire the smart people and give them the best tools and then you make them part of what you're doing. in the first six years or so of the company, we gave stock to all new employees said they would feel they had a real stake in to it. this was important. we also had a fun environment.

it sounds a little odd, but a technology company that is growing should he a lot of fun and we wanted to employ that fund and we were having fun and we thought as a matter of fact bill pratt always set our goals are to have fun in to make money and that is all we try to do. the first aim is to have fun whether you make money or not. >> for anybody that might be watching that if they be about starting their own company for leading their salary positions to start one of their own companies, what advice would you have for them? >> i would say that if there is another way that you can be happy do that. if you are an entrepreneur at heart, that is definitely what other there is not any fact sides to it.

it is all fun if that is your mindset. you have to be a person that is optimistic and believes he can overcome whatever happens. i think it is the most fun i've ever had in my life was those long days. we typically, for the first six years we worked from 8:30 to 11:30 at night and we did that for six years. that is the most fun i ever had. >> and they were doing it seven days a week. just an immense amount of work. >> thanks for joining us today. >> thank you.

>> here is a look at some of the upcoming book tours and festivals happening around the country. >> from my father, i inherited my comp events, my resilience my passion and my audacity. looking back, although it was never explained to me in this

way, she taught me this. which is the reek idea of honor and doing the right names, even when one is on interest or even non-live. growing up while it never felt anything but australian, there were two stories about the second world war that i kept close to my house. the first was in 1940 when mussolini italy's prime minister asked the great prime minister for free passage and on the spot at 3:00 in the morning without hesitation, without consultation, he said is a spirited defiance and white incredible when considering just how vastly outnumbered the greeks were by the italians.

it prompted winston churchill greater speaker of the 20th century in my mind to say it is not greeks that fight like heroes but that heroes fight like greeks. again in 1943 on the island the german military commander ordered the bishop and the mayor to prepare him as he said the jewish community on the island. his plan was to deploy the entire jewish community to concentration camps in poland. any greek cockfighting a would be executed on the spot. the bishop and the mayor went to the jewish community on the island and they sent them into

hiding in the map are with christian rents in the countryside. they returned to their commander and presented him with a sheet of tape or a list that the german military commander was after. there were just two names on that piece of paper. they sold the military commander that it was the entire jewish community. it was the spirit that was behind both of those acts and it is that precise. but having courage to me to answer what i consider the rate of moral calling of our time the defense of the united states of america.

>> and woodward famously wrote about the burden of southern history were southerners out all around them the trappings of slavery and segregation in history with them and to unload a burden to unload. whereas people who grew up in the north, particularly way northerners don't think of their own path through their heritage and not way. in fact, they think of it as something to live up to. northern history is something to aspire to. that is what i mean about the sense of history at the beginning and the first story that i start out with, as you say, it's about springfield massachusetts. that city, a small city in massachusetts about 150000. in 1939 just as world war ii was starting. the leaders of the city and school superintendent pioneered

a plan that they said would abolish prejudice and abolish racism. from the school system and from the city at large. and so they adopted this curriculum then these principles with this high-minded goal with eradicating from young people mind racism. >> i came upon the robber sent to push them to that? >> well, they drew upon curricula that was being i left by a bunch of professors at columbia teachers college, which went along with these broader movement towards teaching pluralism basically and world war i to world war ii. >> host: why did they care? >> guest: part of why they cared in world war ii was the threat of racism from hitler's germany seemed so real and

tangible. i'm the one hand, this is northeasterners in massachusetts and new york are your days out overseas this terrible threat of fascism and not see his son and also below the mason dixon line the threat of what you might call southern segregation. northeasterners pictures themselves and this is what my book is about him and that these massachusetts, connecticut, this area that pictured itself as the land of racial progress and tolerance and political liberalism. >> at now "after words" with cable axelrod, author of "believer." mr. axelrod served as senior strategist for barack obama's presidential campaign and and a former senior kaiser to president obama. he discusses his life and career