ent operate. in terms of dalia operations america's firefighters deal with an increasingly complex environment that requires increasing amounts of information and data to keep citizens safe. it will like it possible to gain quick access to the tools and applications that provide location data and other vital information for firefighting. it will enable the exchange of real-time data on the ground to assist the commanders with operational decision-making and maximize the search and rescue effectiveness. they will make a change in how the emergency medical services practice. in the field it is important to arrive at the patient location and transport him or her at the hospital within minutes. the critical critical decision making and real-time decision-making and real-time in the field which will help save

lives. under emergency conditions the nation's cellular carrier networks become overwhelmed and unusable for the transmission of emergency data we experienced this firsthand in oklahoma city 20 years ago when they offered the federal building was bombed. the full deployment of the first nationwide public safety broadband network would ensure that america's first responders can access vital information among all of the emergency conditions. candidly there was skepticism from some public safety after it was formed and it would be a mission-critical network to for public safety organizations have consistently said that it must be critical at the outset. under the leadership first net has sought greater input from the advisory committee and engaged in public safety far more than previously. it's a 40 member committee

established in the statute to provide significant recommendations and advice to the issues. public safety advisory committee meets several times a year including the months in the past year near my hometown in northern oklahoma. we be the public safety is ongoing and put through the public safety advisory committee is vital at all stages of the networks development so that it will be tailored to meet the needs of the end users. america's first responders and other public safety entities. the ifc are also very pleased with the naming of the chief former president and chairman of the board as the vice chair. he is a well recognized service committee on the safety communications issues. we we beat me they've worked to create opportunities for the public safety community to shape the design of the network in several states and territories.

including the chairwoman and executive level staff throughout the country reaching out and connecting to the local and state officials this outreach has dramatically improved over the past year and we look forward to continuing as the network is deployed. the state consultations process is a key element to the success and in the venue where the members and other public safety personnel are able to ensure that firstnet is meeting our needs. they've made a trend to strive to consultations in the past year in the 100 engagements involving 20,000 stakeholders and fiscal year 2014. i understand that firstnet intends to hold consultations with the states and territories by the end of this year. while there is an agreement in

the in-person meetings on with the final network would look like, how much it will cost for the public safety to use in the network's exact coverage areas these are the types of questions that should be and are in or being asked and debated at the state consultations throughout the

response abilities and establishing internal controls, number two, how much the network is estimated to cost and how they plan to become self funding. and number three what lessons can be learned from the early builder projects. first, they found that firstnet made of the progress carrying out the response of these established but they lack certain elements of the controls. they made progress establishing the organizational structure in the public safety broadband network consulting with stakeholders and nevertheless the stakeholders contacted and cited the issues such as deciding the level of coverage which would be difficult to address to carry out its responsibilities. with respect to internal controls for firstnet begin establishing policies and practices consistent with federal standards but it has not

fully assessed its risks or established standards of conduct. they achieve the complex objectives and fully assessing the risk would help them respond to the risks in a proactive way. correcting the context of health firstnet address the conduct and performance issues in a timely manner. they found that a nationwide public safety broadband network is estimated to cost billions of dollars and difficult decisions determining how to fund the network's construction and an ongoing operation. various entities estimate of the cost to operate such a network from 12 billion to $47 billion over the first ten years. the actual cost of the network would be influenced by the business model at the extent of the commercial partnerships. the existing infrastructure, efforts to ensure the reliability and coverage. for example the cost of the network would increase if firstnet doesn't utilize commercial partnerships and leave some existing infrastructure. the 2012 act provides to

establish the network to become self funding for firstnet is authorized to user fees and commercial partnerships into the latter of which involve secondary use them on public safety services. however, the ongoing work suggest they face difficult decisions in determining how to best utilize the revenue sources. for instance widespread coverage can attract more users and fee revenues but it's expensive to construct and maintain especially in rural areas. finally, we found that it's taken steps to collect and evaluate the information and lessons on the builder projects that are developing a ogling at a regional safety networks but it could do more to ensure that properly evaluate and incorporate the lessons. for example they asked the projects to report any experiences of the network users and as a signed contract or to the lessons. however the preliminary results indicate it does not have a plan that articulates how it will eat

out dvd experiences and lessons. geo found that the plan for the projects like these can help ensure the agencies obtain the information necessary to make effective program and policy positions. giving up the early builder projects in the local and regional level but firstnet must do nationally and evaluation to plate a key goal in the strategic planning for grandma greenwich and providing feedback on both the design and execution and the missed opportunities to incorporate the lessons the projects have identified. the member knows them and members of the committee this concludes my remarks and i would be happy to answer questions at the appropriate time. >> or any member knows and members of the committee thank you for inviting me to testify on behalf of the first responder network authority. i welcome the opportunity to brief you on the progress and development of the interoperable broadband safety broadband network. it's also a pleasure to the pier with my fellow panel members. i would also like to welcome

several members of the committee that are here with us today to hear about their network. so i appreciate everybody coming with us today. as you know, we experienced growing pains in the early days of our existence with only board members in the organization until maybe 2013. end of the executive team not in place until the latter part of the same calendar year we were dependent on the support from other agencies in particular and tia. we worked to shore up the areas of weakness and to take on as much responsibility as we can and i am very confident that today we will find the process and procedures in line with expectations. with an executive team in place at the end of 2013 we developed and communicated or strategic roadmap and in march of 2013 and has been on pace with our milestones ever since. specifically we initiated the consultation meetings. we issued the first public notice and comment in september

september 2014. we released the second comment and finally the board is on track to address later this month. we have held presentations in 275 engagements at the beginning of 2014 connecting more than 45,000 stakeholders. we scheduled 43 consultation meetings and we have conducted 15 state consultations and there is an additional 28 states. they include the quarterly webinars and upcoming april 14 and 15th we will host an imperfect meaning -- in person meeting with the context attending if they can make it. i am frankly very proud of the organization and what it has

accomplished and also where they are in terms of their readiness for what lies ahead. it is an extremely timid and dedicated team working on a project that is unprecedented, complicated and one that faces headlines each and every day. what no one sees is the toll this takes on the organization and the people that are working so hard. and i have to tell you i worry about that a lot. we are taking on this historic task to deploy the nationwide network. nothing is the size and scope that has been attempted before and we are constrained by the number of factors that are out of our control. coming from the private sector i found the rules and process extremely challenging at times and this undoubtedly slows the ability to move as expeditiously as we would like. i know there are some in the community that would have liked to see more progress at this point. i would, too mac. but the fact remains we are federal entities with subject

rules and regulations and to be sure sure we're making great strides towards the missions delay hope you understand why we may not be moving as quickly as everyone expects variably have discussed with the secretary areas where the processes needed to be improved and she's committed to the necessary resources within the department of commerce to make those improvements. we are appreciative of her support as it could make a difference to our effectiveness. the first two areas where the hiring process and procurement. to the degree that it can assume the response ability for functions like hiring procurement edge like we have for the finance i believe that having people dedicated to these functions whose first prayer of these firstnet would enable us to move things along quickly and efficiently while still adhering to the rules and regulations under which we operate. i want to mention we are working hard to build a culture at firstnet that is appropriate to serve the public safety community. our first responders are on duty

24/accident. so we need to be there to support them. this means we have a laser focus commitment to serve and to have a sense of urgency doing whatever is required to support our public safety community. and in summary, to accomplish a tremendous amount and are building a reputation of doing what we say we are going to do. we have much more to complete what i but i believe that we are on the right path with a dedicated team working hard on a mission. thank you for allowing me to be here today to talk about firstnet. i welcome your questions. >> chairman, ranking member nelson and members of the committee he appreciate the opportunity to testify as the committee examines the progress and challenges in establishing the national public safety broadband network called for under the middle-class tax relief act of 2012. unlike the nation telecommunication networks currently available, which has been built by the private sector, the act authorizes firstnet to use a substantial amount of public money,

$7 billion to build a public safety network making internal controls a compliance with those internal controls all the more important. there is no question that it's critically important for the first responders nationwide to have state-of-the-art communications and data capabilities at all times. getting there will be very challenging and oversight is also very challenging. april 23, 2014 board meeting a former board member presented a resolution raising various the resolution raising various concerns about the board operations and decision-making including issues related to ethics and procurement. in september, 2013 a special review committee established by the board issued a report that addressed issues of openness and transparency the lord members access to information and network planning. the report did not substantiate the concerns of the former board member. in october, 2013 the previous board chairman with concurrence of the board asked my office to take over the inquiry.

we issued a report in december of 2014. firstnet didn't wait for the reports to begin report began eating important changes for example, among other things, they hired a chief counsel, established a compliance program in the office of the chief counsel, coordinated with our office in developing a training program for its board members and staff. nonetheless the results of the audit disclosed serious problems in the area of ethics we found confidential public financial disclosure monitoring procedures who are inadequate. some board members didn't file a timely disclosure report and of the monitoring of the potential conflict of interest data improvement. for example we found that a former board member did not file a required public financial disclosure report and when eventually doing so did not disclose the significant interest or position in the conflict in company. another former board member submitted the required disclosure report five months late.

we consider the issue of the financial disclosure reporting and especially important in the internal control because the first firstnet mission of the board necessarily include close ties to the telecommunications industry creating a greater risk of the potential conflict. in the area of procurement we found a contracting practices act transparent award competition from a sufficient hiring and adequate monitoring of contracts. for example we found that the justification for the noncompetitive $8.4 million contract was not adequate and that a former board member had inappropriately directed to the contractor in the contractor in advance of the contract award to hire specific individuals. this created the appearance of the contractor was required to hire these individuals in order to be awarded the contract. unduly, -close-brace all relationships with contractor personnel can create the appearance of favoritism that may call into question the integrity of the procurement

process. we made nine recommendations to address our findings. some recommendations have already been implemented and we continue to work with the department on implementation of the remaining recommendation. in our opinion hour finding can take up seriously and progress has been made since they were first raised nearly two years ago. however significant challenges remain. moving forward the areas that we have identified which are well known include the following. ensuring the adequacy of the funding for the nationwide network, determining the sufficiency of assets contributed to the network by state, local governments and commercial entities can incorporating lessons learned from the broadband technology opportunities program, continuing to address the general control weaknesses and effectively executing the consultation process. we are continuing our oversight of firstnet and we will keep them informed with respect to these challenges and any others we identified for the audits and

investigations. finally i do wish to inform the committee for the actor did not specifically authorized firstnet funding to be dedicated to the oversight. as a result of the past two years we've been working with the department on funding the oversight in and the 2016 budget request and appropriation for the oversight work. however the committee may want to consider whether it is more prepared to authorize funding for the oig oversight from firstnet and refunds. mr. chairman this concludes my testimony. i would be happy to answer any questions. >> thanks to the panel for your great comments and we will look forward to asking a few questions. we will try to define to the members of the committee to five-minute rounds and i will start off by asking the statute authorizing specifically states america can't be left behind in deploying firstnet. my question is how do you plan to ensure that more states are adequately covered?

>> i think you know in discussions with your office and the other members we take the coverage very, very seriously. in fact it is as high a prd is urban. it's important for people to understand it is the urban coverage that differentiates the network from the commercial network because commercial doesn't cover rural. we talked about the importance of the consultation and it is in those meetings we reviewed the program with the state as you know we work in advance with the single point of contact with your particular state and plan those meetings and go over the plans and then give an opportunity for the folks in the state to actually tell us where their priorities are. it's important we don't know that so that's why we have to go into the consultation meetings and get the information which we will feed into the process as part of the response mechanism for the vendors who will be responding to this about how

they are going to do that coverage and at what cost so it is a critical component of the program and again it's important to understand that this is what differentiates the commercial that work. >> speaking of the rfp firstnet was established in 2012 but stakeholders have been pushing for a long time for interoperable public safety networks going on for i think a decade. but i think everyone is concerned that if it doesn't move forward reasonably assume that the vendor community and public safety community could lose confidence in this endeavor and that could be a tipping point with regards to the future success and viability. you mentioned in your testimony you were going to try by the end of the month is that what i heard you say? >> if i could i would like to talk about the fact we are on

track with everything we said we were going to do. we issued a public notice and comment on monday and by the end of the month the board is going to consider the draft for issuance. the reason it's important to put the draft in the community is the very thing you said. vendors want to know what we are intending in to give feedback to have this draft is actually issued so that when we issued the final rfp towards the latter part of the calendar year we won't experience unintended consequences because we didn't take that into consideration. so, we are on track to issue that that we communicated over a year ago. >> did you think that in the calendar year -- >> i am not aware of any that could delay that. internally we believe that is the case. and depending on the comments

that we get back from the vendor community and others about that it may extend it a little bit but i think it will be well worth the time so that when we actually issue the rfp, it's done right and effectively so that we get the kind of answers. as you indicated it is the pivotal part of the program. the draft is not only about deploying the network, but it's about monetizing the excess capacity of the spectrum. it is a very complicated process, so this has to be done right and i think it is pivotal for the program. >> i understand that firstnet hasn't determined how the builder projects in these jurisdictions moving ahead with firstnet will be incorporated in the network and various factors could affect determinations of a would-be interested if you could elaborate on those factors and perhaps beyond that recommend

steps they could and should take to address those. >> regarding the lessons they need to learn about and they have been collecting some information conducting outreach in the planning for deployment, all four of those areas in the early builder projects have been doing their work and trying to develop options as they proceed on their own. they have looked at some of those projects but they haven't done so in a way that we think is effective. they haven't done a full-blown evaluation. they were able to use that information down the road as the various projects hit certain milestones and use that information to make the changes themselves. in the first development as the time goes forward.

it's been difficult for them and we recognize that. if they are going to achieve success it is absolutely critical for them to obtain as much information from existing projects on the ground as they can. >> and very quickly you've identified as an area of concern for the department in the upcoming year and you mentioned in december of 2014 your office to at least record raising serious concerns. what are your biggest concerns about its going forward? >> the concerns going forward pretty much mirror some of the issues in your statement that there are many unknowns about the network and how they are going to proceed. but i think what we focus on so far is building the organization itself with its personnel and policies and procedures with its adherence to the controls as the thing that we focused on the most. >> argue satisfied with firstnet listened to and implemented some

of the recommendations and findings that you came out with in your report? >> won most of the secretary wanted the general counsel in the department, to the chairman of firstnet and five to the senior procurement official in the department and they are all being implemented. >> senator nelson. >> thank you mr. chairman. let's remember the reason for firstnet to have all the first responders be able to talk to each other without the hindrance as we have seen in the past where one side can't be talking to the other side, where there is a matter of national security or national emergency or local emergency in front of us and i want to thank you all for what you are doing. we knew this mission wasn't

going to be easy and we have certainly seen in the disasters of the past one set of radios can't talk to the others but the inaction is too high and so we task you all with creating right from scratch the interoperable nationwide network devoted to public safety. so you are a unique hybrid. we asked the board to think like an object in order with a limited budget to launch a startup enterprise within the confines of the federal government. that's pretty huge and so the fact that the board one wasn't even set up until august of 2012 and then you have no employees.

you have had to go out and do all of that and so launching this with the urgency that the legislation gave it three years ago you certainly have chronicled the problems on the way. now i want to go down a different line with my question. cybersecurity is an essential component of firstnet. it is a critical network and it's got to be obviously a target for the bad guys. it's got to be hardened against these threats. so, we fired in the legislation that you consider cybersecurity. what steps are you taking in the planning for the nationwide network to prevent against the attacks and then there's the

department reviewing the work on cybersecurity protection and what are you going to do about it in the future? >> we have discussed that in previous discussions. it's challenging not only for firstnet but for the nation and for a lot of large companies around the u.s.. but i am happy to tell you we are collaborating with the department of homeland security on this topic. we are adding resources to the organization so that that is built into our planning, our technical planning and of course it would be a major part of the request for proposals is a high pair ready and i think that we are leveraging the resources appropriately in the federal government. always open for suggestions that it is a high priority. >> are you going to have enough money against cyber? >> it is probably too early to answer the question specifically because we are looking at the

planning process. we be made the business model that we have is sufficient to build out this network and we've incorporated those into our financial model. so, at this point i don't see any difficulty with that. but like everything we do with firstnet, everything is new. there are things we saw at the beginning two years ago that we've actually changed as a result of what we have learned and we will continue to learn but it is a a hike or you're ready and we will keep you posted on how we are doing that because i know it is an important topic to you. ..

to make sure they have the resources from across the federal government, having the best expertise that is variable. we have a number of experts at nist who have been involved in working with the firstnet team as well. >> i have met with nist and you're going to need to work with them. you're going to need to work with some of our intelligence agencies because the technology is so rapidly changing in these areas of the kind of sophisticated attacks that can

occur, and if we're talking about a terrorist attack you all are going to have to be able to communicate on your network, and of course, that's going to be one of the first things that bad guys are going to try to deny, is our ability to communicate and command. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. senator ayotte. >> i want to thank the chairman and ranking member and all of you. appreciate obviously why we need this. we've all had incidences in our state, a number of years ago we had an incident in new hampshire that prompted an early discussion in our state about this where we had a horrible horrible mad man who basically murdered a judge, murdered troopers that were trying to subdue him. murdered local newspaper person and the radios didn't talk to each other, and that created --

that was to the advantage of the perpetrator and allowing that situation to cause more deaths. so this is a real issue and as i think about our state i know that the consultation in new hampshire, i guess, is going to be june 9th i've been told. and you have said miss swensen you're going to get the feedback from the states and particularly as i think about chairman thune's question, two-thirds of my state would technically be really rural areas where we have challenges on how to build the network that people can talk to each other, and in that process where you take new hampshire's feedback and every other state's feedback, and then you put together the rfp for the end of the year will the states have a feed back loop? you sit down with them on june 9th.

they tell you what they think and you're putting tote an rfp. is there another opportunity to see the rpf to make sure their views are reflected? >> thank you for the question. i really want to emphasize that consultation is a broad and ongoing process. it's not a one-time event. we talk about state consultations and it's important people understand what we're trying to accomplish there. our relationships with the states is ongoing. we have conference calls. we are available by staff. we have e-mails, face-to-face meetings. also, i would tell you that as we go through the process of consultation and rfp and then actually deliver a plan to each governor for the man for their states that will not be a surprise. we want this to be a very iterative, very collaborative process so when you get that plan on that day, you have been so involved in it, there should be no surprises. that's the mindset we have

around the process. this is a -- it's very important that we all work together and as you know we have been somewhat limited on staff put we're adding people to make sure we have the right number of people to be available to you and your team so that we can be effective in the information we're providing you. >> good. one thing we're hearing from feedback from people on the ground in new hampshire is they're saying what is the benefit of firstnet? in other words the local agencies that have frankly been working on this issue for years so this isn't a new issue for law enforcement and for first responders like the chief here and they're saying, why should be opt into firstnet verse perhaps using a private distributor, and part of this plan, i assume is how to use -- maximize commercial opportunities given the resources we have. so what would you say to that issue and perhaps because you're so new that this worry that we

don't know what to expect from the first responder community, you can understand why that would be a pretty real one. >> sure. would you like me to answer? >> yes. i'm curious. i just tried to get some local feedback, what do you think about this? what your initial impression. >> i don't think your feedback is different from what we hear. we're trying to be with as many constituents as we can. i go to my local grocery store and talk to firefighters and law enforcement and ask them if they know about firstnet. it's a lot of people out there. there's hundreds of thousands of people we need to get the message out. we're working hard to get the information out. i tell you from a benefit standpoint, what we try to community -- it's not unusual people don't understand why to do this versus that. one thing is the rural coverage. the rural coverage is a critical differentiator. this is a dedicated network, not

a network used by all of us. what happens when you have an indent? what is the first thing you do? you get on your cell phone -- >> i argue without rural coverage you probably could do this quite easily commercially. it's the rural areas that we need the help the most. >> it's more than that. commercial is focused on -- is basically focused on commercial. they have shareholders and earnings releases and things they have to worry about. we don't. the money that we get from this we're going to re-invest in the network so it's dedicated, it also has priority and preemption. so the funding that we're going to get from this, we have $7 billion from the last auction. we have spectrum that is very valuable. it is beachfront property. it is really really good spectrum and so getting the revenue from that will enable us to, along with user fees to be able to operate this network, and i think what is really important for first responders

and for anybody interested in this is that we're talking bat recappallized business model. if you look at the systems today, the lmr systems in existence today are old. they're 10, 15 years old. very difficult for agencies to get the funding to upgrade that. the model we have is talking about upgrading that as technology presents itself. for example, if we start to deploy this network and move from 4g to 5g. we will deploy 5g. so we'll give first responders the technology we enjoy as consumers today. we also are going to be working to -- we're still working on the standards around this but recognizing the network for a particular circumstance in your state and all of the member states. we want to understand what those circumstances are, and we're working to define hardening standards so that we can try to harden the network to withstand

those incidents that -- from a weather perspective that would affect the network. so we also are going to have applications -- i think the development community is going to get very excited about the applications that can be made for public safety. this is an organization dedicated to public safety. it's not secondary. it's primary. and commercial networks -- i was one. i know. i know where the priority is. it about finding customers getting revenue, responding to shareholders every quarter. firstnet is very different. this is an -- and i think it's really important for people to note even if you decide to let us deploy your network in your state, instead of building your open radio access network, the public safety agencies are not obligated to sign up. there's not a mandate they have to. so think of what that says to news terms of developing the network. we have to create a compelling value prop signature that gives them more -- proposition that gives them more value than they

have today. so that is why we're spending so much time with public safety to understand their needs so what we deliver to public safety is what they want to use. so we're very conscious of that issue, and we're working very hard to get information out. we're working with the associations to try to get more information out to the people who are on the street because it's very very difficult -- in fact we were at the fop meeting in san diego last saturday, and law enforcement in san diego was not that familiar with firstnet, but our staff and -- i presented at the fop meeting to educate 150 people at that session0. we're working very hard to get me thissage out. we're open to suggestions. >> thank you. we'll certainly want to make sure all of our first responders are informed. i appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. senator booker. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. first of all i just want to say thank you for the work you're doing. you have been tasked with doing something that is unprecedented

not just from government but in american history, that is extraordinarily and absolutely urgently needed. as senator ayotte said, all of us probably, serving in the united states senate, know the urgency for this. i spent eight years almost as a mayor with crisis and crisis and crisis and i saw as chief bryant could probably attest from his experiences, that communications, whether it's men going into a burning building with no visibility, how important just a radio is to communicate externally. for us hurricane sandy, we saw in the most painful ways sometimes how critical communication was. i even had a situation where we had an earthquake in new jersey something people don't think we have and i -- after surviving the 89 earthquake in california.

wasn't to serious, bull all my communications, police department fire department all my officials went down and fortunately we had a plan where to meet. that made me realize the challengesful so this is what you're doing is a life or death initiative. you are making strides that should be celebrated. my state is ecstatic about the contributions you're making to new jersey, and i'd like to submit for the record an article about atlantic city without objection, mr. chairman, about the public safety work you're doing there, and how we believe in new jersey that the mobile platforms you're creating that can be rolled out in a crisis to key areas really is something for the country that could be of ben and it a model for the nation. whether it's rural areas or urban areas or suburban areas. i just celebrate you. i also celebrate you in the sense that you're working through bureaucracies not are

not used to dealing with a public-private partnership. so i respect the professionals with now on the panel who have done the arduous work of oversight. i want to afford you a couple opportunities to respond a little bit to some of the challenges you put forward and the first is your constructive criticism of having to deal with a lot of the challenges on procurement and others that are undermining your progress to your goal. it's important this committee, who likes to remove barriers -- this is one of the more righteous this. let a major crisis happen to this country, if you get this done, you will make a difference that could be thousands of lives. so could you just talk for a moment about those an stack kells you're encountering and how maybe we can do something to remove them for you. >> sure. i think the thing -- the way i'd like to characterize it is we're working with deputy secretary

bruce andrews and his staff on improving the processes within the department, within ntia and with firstnet. so, set aside the federal regulations for a moment there's just lot of people touching a lot of things today, and we need to streamline that, and we're committed to working on that improvement. i also think it's important that we take -- we have the ability to control our debt -- destiny and we have the ability to have people who are dedicated and where firstnet is their first priority. this is no pejorative comment about people we work with but firstnet is a secondary item for them. they have full-time day job and then we pile on firstnet and we probably don't get the urgency we feel about things. so to the degree we can take accountability and responsibility for those functions, we'll obviously follow all the rules and regulations but i think we would have an opportunity to move more quickly.

so i'd like to see what we can do about improving that, and also taking responsibility from commerce and obviously we wouldn't do that until such time we are prepared. we went through the process with commerce and nti already with our finance organization. initially they provided support for us. today we actually do a lot of that work ourselves. i think we demonstrate we can bring in the right resources and talent and train put processes and control in place that would cause people to feel comfortable we -- >> i'd love for you to submit more of that for the record afterwards. i'd love to hear in detail things we can do to prevent it. i just want to end by saying one comment, one question. our first responders we elevate as senators consistently but people who have the first responders' backs should be elevated too, i want to give you a chance to respond to the cost issue. to have you a self-funding

mechanism do you think that's sufficient? mr. gold stein pointed out it might not be. >> i think what is important to understand in the gao report is the information is built on a lot of assumptions. even mr. goldstein indicated that. to the assumptions have a set of assumptions that he didn't even have visibility to. we have a set of assumptions as well and we believe we understand what we need to accomplish in terms of our spectrum value in order to make this self-sustaining network. that's why the rfp is such a critical component to that. that is the funding neck system, while $7 billion is a lot of movement i'm not saying, no thank you, but it's not sufficient to continue to operate and upgrade this network over time. so, i believe that the financial model is solid but we won't know the answer to that until we finish the rpf process. of course the rfp process is critical for us being able to put together a plan for each of the governors where we can talk

about the coverage we're going to provide and what it's going to cost the first responders to subscribe to that. we won't know all of that until the rfp is completed. >> 'thank you very much. >> thank you, senator booker, senator manchin. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank all of you for what you're doing in this firstnet is unbelievably important. i came into office in early 2005, and we weren't able to communicate with -- in natural disasters or mine tragedies we had. couldn't get the equipment to right place because we cooperate communicate so it was important for us to protect our citizens by being able to communicate. we put a radio system in. we're probably one of the most rural states east of the

mississippi. with that being said this is so important to us. what i would ask you is that -- also want to thank you for the conference you attended and mess with some of my west virginia first responders. when will the grants be available? right now everyone is talking and planning but we're not seeing any action. >> right. i don't know if you want to answer that question. [inaudible] >> he manages the grants. >> oh, yeah. when are you going to let them go? [inaudible] >> turn your mikeow phone on. the question is, when are you going to let the money go? >> there are actually two round of money. the first round of money under the state level implementation grants so round one has gone out. round two is somewhat dependent on figure ought what the that da needs are for firstnet. the first round has gone out for consultation and planning and to allow the states to do the work

to fund that work to work with firstnet as part of the first round. the second round is going out for accumulating the data that will go into it. so we're in the process of figure ought what is it -- >> every state is going to be different. i'm sorry because our times of-limbed. everything is different from state to state as far as needs. the state of west virginia, wagoned took a program with stimulus money and built out to every school, every potion office, every community building we got internet into every nook and cranny but to build off that has not been profitable for the private sect because of the customer base. it would be easy for you to hook off that firstnet into that critical area of first responders. so some of us could get up and rung much quicker if we had access to this and if you're going to fast-track this. >> we expect in the next couple of months to have the second phase of money go out. >> if you want toize as trial and error, west virginia would be glad to work with you. mr. goldstein in the past three

years, you have successfully hired less than 100 people i'm told. found issues with hiring process, response appears to be more lawyers and more red tape. the annual report due february 23rd still has not been released because it has to be reviewed, i'm told by ten different federal agencies before it can be shared with the first responders who its designed to serve. is this all new to you? >> yes, sir. i'm not aware of that. >> are you aware the 23rd has come and gone and the annual report has not been given? >> i'm not sure of the question that you're asking, sir to whom it is referred? i'm with the gao. >> host: oh. well, you all are overseeing it, right? the government accountability office. >> we have done our first audit of the firstnet, which is

what i'm here talking about today, sir. >> what i'm concerned about -- would it alarm you all that they might not be able to meet the first net needs? as far as personnel? that's all they've been able to hire? >> we understand -- >> maybe i got -- can someone else answer this? >> i can certainly respond to that. the annual report actually has been issueed. there was a time delay but you have access. it requires review and there's -- >> but ten different -- this is what really upsets people. >> you're talking to somebody from the private sector. no it doesn't make sense. i'm not an expert on government process so i'm not -- >> this is national emergency. some would happen can we help each other? creep -- katrina type thing. it was such a cluster --

>> can we help -- >> get firstnet up and running. >> that's the beauty of firstnet -- >> i know that. but i'm saying doubt through the ten different federal agencies tell us where your impediments are. >> the impediments today are personal hiring because it takes us anywhere from nine months to a year to get people on the payroll through all the processes, through job descriptions, through hiring and security clearances. it can take a significant amount of time to get people on the payroll. wore wife, the department of commerce, and procurement. i would like to just say it's really important that we have as much control over our destiny as possible to have people who are dedicated to this who feel a sense of urgency, for whom it's not a second job and all the people who who in firstnet today feel the sense of urgency-want to get things done but it's difficult. >> mr. chairman, my time is up. if i could maybe work with and you ranking member and look at cutting some government regulation in order to get this up and rung quicker we're

hitting this in every aspect of government. maybe the commerce committee can cut through this stuff. >> i would be more than happy to work with west virginia because that is crazy. this stuff is beyond the pale sometimes in terms of what it takes to get anything launched. let's do that. thank you senator manchin. senator peters. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank tower palmists today for your testimony and your hard work on this issue, and your insight into it. i am certainly concerned about all of the issues i've heard from my colleagues in michigan that i'm privileged to represent. has a great deal of rural areas as well so i appreciate your efforts in making sure we have a network up and running in rural areas. i want to take another area that is very important to us and that's border areas. we are a state that is on some of the most traverse border crossings in the country. we just recently have been moving forward on a new international bridge between

detroit and winsor, which will greatly increase trade between our countries and continue to make michigan a low citiesis sticks communicate we have border crossness port huron and sault~st.~marie, and as we're dealing with border issues first responders have to coordinate with international entities or in this case the canada yap entities and they have different spectrum issues than we have in the united states. so the chairwoman, if you could comment about how firstnet is going to ensure that our emergency communications along the borders are going to be facilitated and a sense of what sort of discussions you have had with canadian officials in terms of making sure there isn't interference in the communication we may have on our side of the border versus their side of the border and when they have to be connected together as well. it's a complex issue but if you could flesh that out.

>> actually it not a complex issue. from a technical perspective. i just tell you that one of our top project is is not folk us kid on canada but the southern border because we know border issues or challenging. we are actually learning quite a bit from our projects expansion one of those is border issues. again, we're focused on mexico and not canada but we have a very good relationship with canada. they have the same standards the u.s. does so we don't anticipate a lot of difficulty with canada. we are anticipating challenges with mexico, which is our new mexico project its focused on that one of the key learning conditions. we have actually -- i think from a key learning condition and things, we have had 61 things we have actually learned and i like to mention another one in particular that has been extremely valuable that has been fed into the technical team and the rfp process and that is our project in los angeles. los angeles was -- is working to try to get some sites up, and we

learned that the use 0 existing government infrastructure is quite a bit more challenging than we had originally anticipated. developing memorandum of understanding, leasing excess capacity is very challenging. so it actually has been extremely helpful through that project. so i would just have you feel a little more comfort that be happy you're on the northern border instead of the southern border. i think we'll be able to traverse those challenges easily. >> that's very good to hear. the other issue we face being the great lakes state is we have a very large coast guard presence as well. along the shoreline and just if you could let me know what firstnet is doing work with the military branches and the coast guard, so depending on what the emergency is sometimes it's the coast guard that is the first to respond but they work closely with fire and police and ems personnel as well. >> i think it's an excellent question. just as we have outreach to the states we have been talking out,

we have a dedicated person to focus with our federal partners and there's actually a person inside the federal government who is now our single point of contact, like a state has. we're working with a group called the ecpc. there's a lot of acronyms in the federal government, i'm sorry i don't remember the acronym but has to give bringing all the agencies together around emergency communications and privilegely two of our board members, susan spalding and terry takai were co-chairs of the committee, so we're edge gauged and met with the federal partners to coordinate. >> one thing chief bryant in a comment you made about when the systems are overwhelmed depending on the incident, and just thinking about horror story in michigan, if we had a crisis at the university of michigan football game, which we have an awful lot of folks at the

stadium, communications can be very, very difficult how do you see firstnet handling that situation and the chairwoman as well, how can we assure we're not going to -- we can handle these incredible spikes and why this network is fortunate handle the spikes in usage. >> on the large scale events, obviously the initial stages are somewhat chaotic, and that's when we experience the most difficulty with voice communication. but as we have to reach outside of our own jurisdictions at those times to gather critical information to help us manage that incident the data side of this is what is really needed and what is really important. so when we reach out to federal agencies that could provide us mapping information, and other types of information that we would need when law enforcement may need to reach out for intelligence type information having the availability through the firstnet for the data is critical. again, depending on the

localities, communication system some are very robust some are not so much at this point. so i look at this as somewhat a safety net in those times that if your voice does start to fail you -- voice communications start to fail or get overwhelmed you have the backup with firstnet on the data side to be able to exchange critical data. >> just a couple of comments. first of all, going back to my comments about a dedicated network, first of all that a lot of capacity in 20 mega ertz but we sometimes have spikes. we'll get someone to actually want to use that excess capacity and will be using the network and we'll be getting revenue. the beauty of long term evolution lte technology it has something called priority and preemption. even if there are people using the network those folks will

come off the network and public safety will begin priority. the first time this has been done. having been in telephone communications for a long time people talk before the it but it's been done national allly. this is done automatically. we're doing testing in labs in boulder to volume date it's more than just vapor ware. we have venter technology in our labs and are testing it. the good news is it works. aimportant to mention -- this is a big change for public safety. public safety is used to working in vertical organizations fire, law enforcement, ems. this is creating a very horizonal able to communicate. we have an advisory group called the public safety advisory council, and they're actually looking at how this new organization is going to work local operations, because i think it's going change the way frankly public safety operates. i think it's all good but it's going to be very different, and i think we're going enjoy as we see this technology roll out

things we aren't even thinking about today. i think it's very exciting but it's going to be a big change for public safety. those are the important things about the public safety network that are going to make a very big difference. >> thank you. senator fisher. >> thank you mr. chairman. miss swensen, can you give us an idea when this is all going to be fully operational? you have a window of time there? >> always a great question. as i said, we have the strategic road map that lays out the time frame of getting through our state consultation issuing the rfp, getting the response and then obviously awarding to the winner of the process. what we don't know today is what might happen in that process. so if we were unencumbered by external factors we could probably give you a more definitive time frame but my

expectation based on what everybody told me in the federal government we might see a few bumps along the way. the goal is to obviously get that rfp out, get the responses in put that information together and deliver plans to each of the governors of every state. what happens during that time frame, we're hoping it's smooth and we're -- i think -- i hop you get a sense of the seasons urgency we feel about this and how hard we're working to get that begin. >> do you think you'll reach the 2022 goal -- >> oh, yes. if we don't, we should be shot. >> mr. chairman, i don't even know how to respond to that. [laughter] >> we'll find a lesser answer for that. >> i appreciate your honesty on that. when we're looking at the gaos estimates that you're going to need, 12 to 47 billion over the next ten years, how do you

think -- well, first of all do you agree with those numbers? >> as i said previously the gao report has looked at some assumptions and some estimates where they have no visible to the assumptions that were made. very early in the process, the early folks who were with firstnet, along with the board, looked at a financial model around some assumptions. we're pretty comfortable based on our experience around the cost structure do this sort of thing. i think the rev enough side is harder but we have made some reasonable assumptions. we have encorp operated that into the mod toll say, is this even fees still in can we even do this? i thought that was very -- it was very important process to go through because why expend federal funds to go down this path only to find out that at the end of it, there's -- >> can we do it? >> yes, we can, assuming the assumptions we have in our plan are realized, which is why the

rpf process is so important, and that's why i think the public notice -- i would just like to highlight that the public notice we issued on monday is credit dollar the rfp process because it starts to answer questions that i think were maybe a little unclear in the legislation that we're trying to clarify before we go out with rfp. we believe it can happen but only be validate loud the rpf process. >> if by chance that is not going to be enough money, what too you see happening? are the states going to have to step forward and pick it up? are we looking at turning firstnet into a self-sustaining entity? where do go from there? >> excellent question. we have talked a lot about that inside of firstnet, and if we don't realize the -- what we believe the value of the spectrum is, we could literally fold up our tents and go home, which is is why we're at state consultation and outreaching to

people to make sure -- think about this. we are -- we have to provide a compelling value proposition for our first responders. we're in a very different situation than maybe other projects where there are more mandated, we have to deliver to first responders something they think is worthwhile, and i think it changes the dynamic and the way we approach this in terms of how we approach the project. if we don't realize the value of that spectrum it's going to be very challenging to be self-sustaining do. >> you doo you think firstnet would nut a claim for -- put in a claim for more of the money that comes from the sale of spectrum? >> we're not looking for moyer more money actually -- >> that is nice to hear. >> i know that's rare. that rare. but we take that honestly very seriously, which if why i think you see such a dedicated team at firstnet and why i think senator booker talked about the

importance of having people who have done this before so you have a sense of confidence that it can be accomplished, and why it's so important that the rfp be very well done. we believe that there is interest in our spectrum. we have a fundamental belief and we validated that through conversation wed have had with folksful there's never enough spectrum. it's like gold. it is valuable. so even with priority and preemption, it's very good spectrum and i think we have people out there who are more than interested in being part of that. so we're confident that will prove to be the assumption at that time was correct. >> thank you very much. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. to senator from nebraska next up senator blumenthal. >> thank you mr. chairman. i found a remark earlier, miss swensen, that you made, somewhat staggering. that it takes nine to ten months

to hire someone? did i hear correctly? >> unfortunately yes, you did. >> so you have the funding you need. >> correct. >> you have the spectrum that is necessary. >> correct. >> the two essential components that have been commonly identified. but you are in effect -- i don't think it's to strong a word to say -- handicapped, even crippled by procurement procedures including hiring protest procedures that are completely inadequate to the urgent task that you face and you have used the word urgent to describe it. i think all of us would agree. what can be changed in those procurement policies which have so handicapped other branches government as well in similarly urgent tasks particularly in the hiring area.

>> as i said we're working with department of commerce and the secretary's staff to see what we can do. in addition to just the federal process, i think we have some things internal to firstnet nti and commerce that i think we can look at. we're looking at the cycle time and what is getting in the way. why take two months to write a job description, taking two months to hire a firm to hire people. it shouldn't take that long. so we're looking to see what we can do to come -- compress that which would enhance our ability to get the job done. we're working hard and i'd love to report back to you on the progress we're making on that. >> well, in each of those steps you have identified opm has to be a partner. correct? >> you know i'm probably not as -- >> under current procedures. >> i'm not as familiar. i think the deputy secretary andrews might be able to answer that. >> one thing we have done and actually is move firstnet over to the commerce alternative personnel system, which is a

more streamlined and more flexible process than the normal owe pm process. there are undoubtedly challenges because of the safeguards built into federal law in terms of hiring within the federal government that as you point out, this is urgent and the need of first net are incredibly special. >> what about, miss swensen and mr. secretary, giving firstnet direct hire authority? >> you start. >> we have made that request. >> you have made that grant. >> not been granted. >> when did you make that request. >> i have to pull the exact dates. >> give me -- >> probably d. >> on approximation date. >> quite a while ago. >> part of the reason we have gone to the cap system -- >> what have they said to you. >> up until now it has not been granted based on the nature of the hiring and -- >> have they responded negatively or just not

responded. >> kneelingtively. >> i just clarify that -- negatively. >> they responsibilitied negatively to our first request and have not responded to our second request. >> when was your second request made? >> august of 2014. >> august of 2014? so that's quite a while ago. >> right. >> let be just suggest that -- let me just suggest that for the first year and a half i believe i'm correct in saying you were barred from staff. you have 110 employee, which seems inadequate. low is right. the success of this very very important national priority depends on having the best and the brightest. there is simply no way you can compete for the limited pool of highly skilled, talented, people

who are being hired by google, apple, there is huge demand for these people. and you're telling them, sorry we can't let you know for another ten months and they're going to say thanks but no thanks. right? >> in fact they have. >> and they have. i'm sure they 1/2 large numbers. >> correct. >> so, if i may respectfully submit the federal government is failing you. and lest we expose you to capitol punishment, i think we have an obligation to compel the relevant agencies principally opm and anybody else concerned to do better and to do more and to do it more quickly so that you can succeed in this task. >> senator we'd really appreciate that. thank you for your comments.

>> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator cantwell. >> thank you mr. chairman. one of the issues that strikes me in this discussion is this -- on how fast you can go and whether there's more of the private sector can do, but i think the key phrase here is interoperability, my understanding senate of those pilots were turned down because they really weren't ensuring interoperability. the private sector can get it done in a second but i guarantee you it ill be a closed loop system based on somebody's technology they build and build off their technology. so i you want to give somebody the grand prize, we can do that. the issue is making sure we have interoperability and is that what the pilots were delayed for? >> met respond to that. i can respond pretty specifically because as a board member, in the beginning days

when firstnet negotiated the leases -- the projectwards in existence prior to firstnet becoming a reality. they were put on hold because they were focused on broadband and to make sure they were consistent with what we were trying to do with firstnet. we were able to actually move some of those forward. some of the difficulties we experienced -- one of the requirements was that the plan that the organization presented had to be self-sustainable, so in other words they needed to show financial viability, and in some of those cases it didn't turn out to be that, and i will tell you personally, senator, that i personally worked very hard to try to get those projects completed because we know how important they are. as i said we have learned a lot 0 from these projects we already incorporated into the technical work, that the technical team is doing. it's helped news terms of understanding the government assets and how we might utilize those. i think that ntia has been involved in that activity as well because they have a different role than firstnet

does. so i will tell you we worked hard to get the projects on board because we're learning a lot from them. >> i want to ask you when we will see functionality because it is important. while i understand the issue of interoperability and making sure that is actually implemented throughout the network i think these state grants are very important. we have this horrible incident we're about on our almost two its one-year anniversary the oso mud slide which literally cut two communities in half and it required 30 different agencies to respond and i think everybody now knows exactly what we want, and what it's going to take in this particular area, because of the topography. you have some communication challenges just in that. but literally at one point we are were just trying to greenlight -- basically putting the broadband back up for

several -- like a mile connected to the trees. that's what we had to do. because couldn't have residents -- i mean over 40 people lost their lives in this incident. everybody wanted to respond but we didn't have broadband communication until we greenlighted putting it back up and hanging it on tree limbs so first responders and everybody could respond. i hope that we will see the urgency, that we have to get these pilots done and that we take these state plans and make them sew up the actual needs needs so get some of these demonstrations and pilots up and running. when would we have that functionality. >> let me see if i -- i'm trying to listen to all the comments you had in there. i think it's important to understand that the pilots are

important for us relative to building out or nationwide network, and that is our first priority. i know that there are many, many people who look us do to more pilots, and it we woo be a bit of a delusion -- dilution of our efforts if want to focus on the public notice we just issued, which by the way really did a lot to support the rural states issues, if you have seen that. it's a really important issue for the coverage there. dirks. >> when would we see functionality of one of those? >> the functionality of a pilot? >> yes. >> actually, they're pilot in colorado called adcom in the boulder area that is up and functioning. we have another project that is not a broadband project but it's in harris county texas, and they have an operational system. in affect went and visit harris county in january of 2013. so they are actually

experiencing and using these with first responders to test the functionality and the interoperability so some of these projects are up and rung in new jersey we have a deployable project. they are in the process of actually getting the deployable so they can test the ability to rationalize those deployables. >> i'm sure our state is very aggressive. i know my time is running out here. we'll have to get details what our state is doing and when we'll see a pilot in the state of was. >> we'll be happy to spend time. >> thank you. >> senator wicker. >> thank you, mr. secretary. the broadband technology opportunities program, btop came about as a result of the stimulus act in 2012 the tax relief act came along and now we have firstnet. mississippi was one of the grantees under btop, and moved forward very aggressively with

greater speed than any other recipient. and the department and our delegation have had numerous discussions about our disappointment with how this has turned out. i understand firstnet maintains it could not reach a spectrum lease agreement with the state of mississippi. this was unfortunate because tens of millions of state and federal tax dollars had been spent significant fiscal assets deployed and the system weeks away from going live, mississippi would have provided an early demonstration of the great potential broadband hope ford first responders itch assume you're aware that the entire mississippi delegation melt with assistant "star trekland" in 2013 to impress on him how important restarting the original btop project was to all of us. at that point i personally tried to help firstnet, nti a and the

state of mississippi reach an agreement. the assistant secretary worked with us to find a way forward and this has not come to true us. the dia has justified the suspension of mississippi's grant as saving taxpayer money by quote, avoiding investments that might have to be replaced if they are incompatable with the ultimate nationwide architecture of the new public safety broadband network. unquote. however, one over the fundamental conditions imposed on all 700 megahertz is to we do employ a network that is fully interoperable so that argument does not seem to hold water. furthermore, mississippi's contract with its vendors required complete compliance with quote, all rules specifics and functionalities,

unquote. that may change per the fcc or nti during the buildout of the nationwide network. understandably, we in mississippi are disappointed and upset, given the assurances by the state of mississippi and vendors how are they saving taxpayer money especially when in fact the agency is now telling mississippi to spend money to dismantle the lte equipment already deployed. >> senator, as you know, there were originally seven pilot projects looked at, four of them were approved, three of them were not, including the $70 million mississippi grant. we were deeply disappointed as well because we wanted to try to make this work but at the end of the day the state and ntia couldn't agree on terms because the state's plan didn't provide the necessary level of detail we needed to meet the statutory

requirements of the act. under the btop program there were specific statutory requirements this had to meet and the mississippi plan that came forward was not a viable alternative that met the stat tier requirement. one thing that nti -- >> statutory requirements from 2012 or from the economic stimulus act. >> from the original btop program. it's my understanding that the mississippi program didn't provide broadband coverage and so that was one of the challenges of this. we wanted to try to make this work. the firstnet team worked hard and long with mississippi trying to find a way to make it work. three of the projects were not in the end, though, able to go forward because they for one reason or another, including this one. we are working -- nti is working are with the state of mississippi to dispose of the equipment. the medical communications equipment held by hospitals and the ambulances will be retained

in mississippi so we're trying to keep as much of that value. but ntia is committed to helping to dispose of the excess equipment, frankly to avoid a loss to the tax payer. >> mr. secretary, we were weeks away from a deployment. mississippi was a leader in deploying a network for first responders based on the statute enacted in 2009. when the federal government made the decision to dismantle the original btop project forcing the state to start over. mississippi has already accomplished the goals of ntias implementation program which is why the state turned down the offered grant. mississippi today hatt has at mother tour structure for the network that was created in 2005. the state was on weeks away from turning on it broadband network with the fraternity was suspended.

we -- i hope that your offer to continue working with the state comes to fruition. miss swensen was invited over a year ago to come to mississippi for whatever reason that has -- that meeting has not taken place yet. but i can tell you that we in mississippi, our entire delegation democrats and republicans, are very concerned about this very disappointed at the wasting of federal money from the economic stimulus program. and we are particularly disappointed that medcome is not able to go forward, a project that has received equipment and would allow first responders to transmit life-saving data to provide hospitals with support

vital medical services to proceed on. my time has expired but i hope this hearing will result in some purposeful action on the part of the department and firstnet to make things work in mississippi. >> thank you. senator daynes. >> thank you. i come from mt., and in a state like montana we have a tail of two type of environments very rural environment across most of the state. the same time because of technology it's removed geography as a constraint. we're able to build world class companies in montana because we can attract and retain great talent because of the quality of life we have fly fishing streams and mountains and so forth. it also helps us improve our first responder services the technology and encouraged in

terms of what firstnet could too to improve public safety by coordinating communication capabilities. when we have incidented that are 50 to 100 miles away in terms of maybe a medical emergency, where we can bring electronically the doctor to the location of an incident is the difference between life and death and in a state like montana we have important national assets women have there'd of the nation's icbms, 150 warheads. we share border with three canadian provinces. so perhaps as background i am concerned about the definition of rural. firstnet plans to deploy on top of existing private infrastructure first and that makes complete logic -- makes perfect logic and sense to me except for the fact that states lining montana have very limited 4lgte coverage, and in fact, in tribal lands, it's virtually

nonexistent. what sort of contingency plans do we have for these areas like the northern cheyenne reservation that doesn't even have 3g service, let alone 4gtle and perhaps secretary -- maybe you can take the first shot at that. >> with your permission senator, i'd actually like to allow sue to take these. >> she is is smiling. >> i'm happy too answer that. it's important, senator that you know that the public notice that we issued on monday takes a really bold step about rural, and making sure that rural is taken care of in this total plan. so we know how important that is for states like yourself. and so we are spending a lot of time on that particular topic. and in our first public notice we asked for public comment on

what rural meant because in the legislation, it could have different interpretations and we want to make sure we have some consistency on that. we have got an lot of good feedback and we'll incorporate that. i'm assuming your state gave us feedback. if not, we're happy to take that. in terms of tribal i think it's important that you understand that we take the tribal consultation very seriously. there's 566 recognize tribes in the u.s. all the different states have a variety of tribes we need consider. tribal organizations should be part of state consultation, so when that occurs the single point of contact, it's important that we make sure that representation is actually part of the state consultation. we as an organization actually hired and have a person dedicated to the tribal organizations so they're fully represented. we also as part of the public safety advisory council have a trial working group. one of our board members has actually been traveling the u.s.

meeting with different organizations. so, i just want you to know that rural is important tribal is important, and i believe that we're taking steps to make sure that those areas -- >> what is the preliminary thinking where the infrastructure doesn't exist today on 4g lte. will they wait until the infrastructure there is or will they circumvent that and move ahead. >> that's going to be part of our rpf process and we would like to get feedback from partners and ventsors who will be responding how we can cover urban and cover rural. the idea is that we would make that as high a priority as our urban coverage. there was some comments been leveraging existing truck. part of the rfp needs to address the rural coverage and folks need to respond on how they balloon to do that. >> the paradox dismiss areas are in the greatest need of telecommunications. >> we understand, which is who is we're make it a priority. >> is a understand al -- maybe

miss swensen, the governor of each state would have the option to accept or opt out of the firstnet plan, and i'm not hearing that montana is planning to opt out. i know their was curiousty if a governor did opt of plan they're responsible for committing a plan to the fcc, any sense of what the coasts associated with opting out versus accepting the plan for some of the states might be? >> well, thick that's -- it's a great question and i think a lot of people are trying to figure that out. it's important to understand you're not really opting out of the nationwide network. you're really assuming responsibility for building your own radio access network. all states whether they use firstnet's radio access network or build their own, will connect to our national core. that's what creates the interoperability across the nation. now in terms of the cost that will be something for your team to -- in montana to determine. we're going give the governor a plan that will lay out the

coverage we have planned based on the consultation we do with your state in terms of priorities, and then we'll give you what the cost of that is or the pricing to your end users. you will then have that to make a determination as the state, and the governor makes that decision -- has to whether or not you want to take on responsibility. >> you'll have a cost -- >> it will be in -- >> if there was an opt out. >> we won't determine your cost. you're going to determine that you're going to issue an rpf and determine that. we'll tell you what our plan is. you can then compare it to what you think building your own radio access network would cost. ...

a number of people died it could've been so much worse because people were able to get to hospitals. there were dozens more cars in there and people survive because of our first responders. i've worked hard to strengthen our country's emergency response network in part by sponsoring and working on the legislation that led to the creation of firstnet. i think it's credible to communications infrastructure, and congress intended it to be built on a combination of new and existing infrastructure. i know senator thune and senator daines and others have been talking about the real issues i will not focus on the. that's important to me.

ms. swenson company committed to making sure that has firstnet formally launches order ships that opportunities will be available to entities of all size? i know nucor wireless based in st. cloud for participating in a pilot project in elk river and it's a cookout project i want to make sure you will continue to work with entities of all sizes. >> yes. in fact, i think it's important to understand that the process is designed to do that. we have a responsibility make sure that we deploy a nationwide uproar -- network of the most effective cost structure. so as we go out and talk to people of different assets want to participate in the request for proposal, everyone will have an opportunity to do that. we will weigh those options and also look at the complexity of the design and also the speed to market. those are the things we have to consider but certainly we are welcoming one and all because this is going to take a really

integrated and joint effort to make this work. >> the spectrum act also included an amendment i worked to include that created a funding mechanism for more than 115 million for next generation 911 research and grants coordinated by the nga and it's a. i can do and have as my top priority making sure that we not only have a nationwide network in place but we integrate the nextgen technologies that are already transforming public safety real-time video text messaging. ms. swenson come with involvement does firstnet have with answering points and the 911 community? >> actually we are in communication with the 911 organization very frequently. in fact, i'm planning to go to the conference probably in the region because we know critical it is to the overall system so it is an ongoing dialogue. >> thank you. mr. andrews, what are you doing

to further the nextgen 911 operations in coordination with firstnet? >> that is a great question. one of the things we've done is between, a partnership between conakry the public safety communications research program which is our effort to really push forward into the next generation of public safety communication. as you know as well in tia addresses the nextgen 911 program at something we're working on. >> then we should invite senator gardner to join our 911 caucus. it's very exciting the group. [laughter] [laughter] we have a lot of emergencies that we respond to. my last question ms. swenson, i understand minnesota was the second state to its consultation with firstnet last september. what are some takeaways from that meeting with the stakeholders? >> i think as indicated earlier i think it's important that we learn from each of the states, the individual circumstances.

every state has a set of circumstances that are very different. your typography is different, where your priorities are different and we are learning and each of those consultations what exactly is unique to your state so we can incorporate that into the process. >> very good. thank you very much. >> thank you, senator klobuchar. senator udall. >> thank you very much chairman then. and thank you for focusing this hearing on this very, very important topic. and let me first just say that i want to firstnet to succeed ensuring our nation's first responders have the communication tools they need should be a top for of this committee. despite lessons learned from the terrorist attacks of 9/11 our first responders still do not have nationwide interoperable communication networks. as many of you know, in an emergency this can be a matter

of life and death. in my home state of new mexico i am pleased that the recovery act broadband plant -- rent help upgrade the state safety communications. this hopefully puts my state a step in as firstnet becomes operable. one concern i have is that congress sometimes makes good policy but fails to follow through i adequately funding their implementation. and i think that could well be a case year. building firstnet is clearly no easy task and i want congress to give firstnet a chance to succeed. it is important first responders have the communications tools they need to protect all of us. many senators have already raised the rural issue. i think rural is tremendous important and in new mexico as i want you to focus on that. ms. swenson, you talked in your written testimony, and i think to a question asked by senator

daines about the tribal issues and how tribes are going to be included or i want to applaud you on having a person dedicated to the tribes. that's usually the way it works best, is somebody that understands these tribal issues, developed a long-term relationship and works with them or could you expand a little more on your testimony, your written testimony about how you're going to make sure the tribes are not left out moving forward? >> as you know the act really requires that engage with tribals so there were so ambiguity about that. so we are very clear about that, but setting that aside, firstnet really understands the importance of tribes. as you said we have a person dedicated to that within firstnet and i think that's unique for a normalization like us to dedicate the resource to that. we also have as part of the public safety advisory council a tribal working group, and that

is focused on tribal issues so that it's represented within the public safety community and the travel grew. that particular small group had a meeting in washington, d.c. just two weeks ago and so it is a very high pretty force. in fact, one is in town hall meeting a couple of weeks ago, the representative, the tribal represent from our organization was at the council. and he was going to get in his car and drive along the coast and meet with as many tribal organizations as possible. so is out and about but as i mentioned one of our board members, kevin mcguinness was from the ems community, has been taking on that responsibility as a port number to go out and make sure we're reaching out making the tribes aware of it and also making sure that the tribal representation is part of consultation. it's really important that there at those meetings at the state meeting so we can understand their perspective as well. we are very very focused on that and consider it a high

priority. >> and as you said, the consultation part is tremendously important. i mean, the tribes were looking to the federal government to look and see that the going to be communicated with and consulted with on these kinds of issues. so we appreciate what you doing and hope we had a commitment to work to make sure that they're not left out. >> you absolutely do. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator udall. senator gardner. >> thank you to the witness for testimony and time. i apologize for coming to the ring lay. i was attending an aumf meeting with secretarsecretar y down the stairs. want to thank you again for being here i want to thank ms. swenson particularly for the work you're doing, given difficulty of the vital importance has to ensure we have a nationwide public safety network. firstnet if done right can help first response across the country to the jobs more quickly and more effectively and no one knows this better than colorado who has endured wildfires including over the past several

years of great magnitude. my questions stem from a place where i want to ensure the state has exactly needs to react to disasters such as these in the future, and i want the network to succeed. i'm happy to talk about the 911 caucus but i think she is left so we will figure that one out later. ms. swenson, one of the concerns i've had from the state and effort in the state, is that the current path forward for firstnet does not include the use of public assets that are ready and willing to be utilized by the public public safety network. my understand is you safety network. mitogen issue for sneaking into the commercial partners are before you move forward with utilizing public assets. isn't there an argument to be made we should be using this and we should be using these public assets? >> i think that's a good question, and you were not here earlier but let me state what i stated earlier. and that is in the early days of firstnet we thought getting that information about government assets would be very,

very important for building out the network. what we've learned through our top projects in l.a. in particular, is that this is more difficult than anticipated in terms of the unique circumstances in every state about coming to memorandum of understanding about those assets, the leasing of excess capacity on those assets. whatever the circumstances are they turned out to be much more complex than we had anticipated. but would like to do is know about those assets but take that into consideration after we determined the partners and to determine what additional to what additional press coverage or capability those assets can add it to the existing plan. and so we think from a sequence the standpoint and from a complexity standpoint as i said earlier we want to make sure that we're dedicating our resources now i'm getting a national network bill. it's been a change from that originally anticipated but we

are come through with this approach. additionally, if there are assets, an organization in the state would like to be considered as part of a nationwide network, again i think it's important that we look at deployment, complexity and cost the we have a responsibility mature this is done in the most effective and efficient way possible and that some of the fault questions i have on the sequence he and the speed which were getting this done. you mentioned i believe i was told by my staff you said adams county is functioning and so thank you for that. but if they have met all the international standards and interoperability is not an issue, then we are looking at three years, four years maybe down the road. people in colorado need to get this done now. does adams county have to wait until they receive a state plan to proceed? can colorado build it out and still be part of firstnet? i'm concerned that we have places in colorado, significant

metropolitan population with rural areas and forced it to rain that need to move forward -- force did terrain. audi response be? this is a very conflict issue as you know and we are very excited about what adams county is doing and it's become a good project for people to come and see how this new technology is working. i think it is really important for people to understand our focus is getting on a nationwide network and we have limited resources at firstnet in order to spend time on these individual projects. and so it would dilute our ability to work on a nationwide plan. and so it's a trade off for us very frankly senator. and it's a difficult one because i've looked at all the resources in the world to do a lot more in a lot of different areas but we have an obligation to do this as quickly as possible. we've had to make some trade-offs. >> i wanted to shift to the rural conversation assumes that so many people brought up.

in previous experience with something from the federal government that was intended and designed to go to underserved areas, money was spent in areas where it could easily be spent, and those areas where money would be spent in difficult areas to reach for networks and others, that money was not spent and then by the time they got to those areas which are difficult and tolerant to reach, the money was gone. they had to look elsewhere for an opportunity. are the areas of parts of the country, parts of colorado where firstnet will not be building out into because it doesn't make sense or it's not responsible? >> i think that's an excellent question. i think it's important for you to know that the funding in the second notice ensures world -- rural buildup if you look at the public knows we issued on monday, there is assurance for rural buildout. the consultation that we do with every state usually talking about the priorities, not that we would never build but we want to understand where you're your

priority sort. obviously, a network of this magnitude, we can't just up her finger and turn it on one day. it's going to have to go in phases. we have rural buildout milestones that we need to accomplish to make sure that we actually do that. the response to the rfp will be critical and the folks who responded to rfp will have to address those issues. that's what we're taking information from your state consultation and interaction were having with your state and put it into the rfp so whoever is responding knows that's a priority for your spent on from your point of view there's no place in the country that has been labeled as taken off the table? >> no. knothole. we talked problem more rural than urban. that's so important it is to us is we're constantly thinking about and making sure, and i would commend you if you haven't seen and for anybody was listening, the second notice really assures that. we took great pains and spent quite a bit of time to picture the very situation you describe

will not happen your. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator gardner, and i appreciate the continued emphasis on the rural issues. ms. swenson, i'm sure you got that loudly and clergy but a lot of interest on this committee. >> i feel the same way. >> this has been a great panel. i thought this shed a lot of light on the subject that has, i think, we need to get out and have just this oversight hearing to raise some of the issues ask some of these questions and we appreciate the panel's willingness to appear today and to respond to this questions. we will continue to provide the oversight. this is an important investment. something that has a lot of ramifications for our first responders and our public safety community and making sure we are able to respond in a timely way when things happen. we want to make sure we get it right, and this kind will do everything we can to stay on top of the. so thank you all for being here

today. the hearing record -- all right. okay, all right. the senator from massachusetts is here. >> i apologize, and i appreciate it. and a want to thank you for convening today's hearing. we understand very well how important it is to have a strong, reliable first responder network from the over 100 inches of snow this winter to hurricane sandy to the marathon bombing. we now critical it is that our emergency responders have dependable committee kitchen tools that allow them to work and to talk to each other safely, and that's what i have always supported firstnet because it fulfills one of most important recommendations of the 9/11 commission, the creation of a nationwide interoperable public safety network. it ensures that our first responders have the tools which they need.

so ms. swenson, we must ensure that firstnet is reliable across the entire country. however, each part of the country faces its own set of difficulties that will challenge the network's resiliency whether its blizzards, hurricanes tornadoes earthquakes. the list is endless. we have to make sure that the network has the capacity as an actual response to each one of these different challenges. so my first question is it's supposed to establish the advanced network for the 20% of public safety needs. given that the states and municipalities already have existing public safety networks how will firstnet work with and utilize these resources in building out into point the national public safety broadband network? >> senator, thank you for the questions. we are interested, as you work him in making this a reliable

network and we were just talking to senator gardner about a similar question but i will be happy to repeat it. the issue with the current assets within the state when we started firstnet we thought that that would be the way to go is to do an inventory of those assets and then build upon those. it turns out that one of our projects in los angeles the b-top project in los angeles has informed us and has been very useful in helping us understand the challenges with actually using existing asset because of the difficulty of developing memorandums of understanding leasing excess capacity and it has been a truly useful in helping us understand that it was probably a little harder than we thought to do. now that doesn't mean we wouldn't utilize those in some fashion that we would go through the rfp process, award partners to actually deploy the network and to determine how those assets could be utilized. and also those assets depending on who owns them, they could be

part of responding to the request for proposal. because deploying this network as you indicated it's important we do this in an urgent fashion and that's where we're dedicating our resources to do that. >> on pitchers and a 2013 right in the middle of downtown boston with a million people watching the marathon there really is no other event like this, we've been had the marathon bombing attack. and so on the one hand you have the government response to an the other inch of a private cellular network that you also want to working and you have a million people all calling. what's happening to my family member running? or even in this instance, people who were not running also injured. so can you talk a little bit about the capacity in emergencies for the private cellular network to be able to also provide the kinds of information which is necessary for people to be able to respond

properly? >> sure. as you know the commercial networks today get really burdened when there's an incident, whether it's small or large. all of us picked up for phones and make a phone call. it really prohibits first responders from being able to use the commercial network. with firstnet it will be a dedicated network, and even with the leasing of excess capacity for other use the technology today senator is something called priority and preemption. unlike the networks today, that technology will enable first responders to get access to the network and to remove those folks were using the network who were not critical. we believe that that particular capability really differentiates firstnet from commercial networks today. that is what commercial networks can't do. additionally, we are working in the state consultation meetings to look at how to harden those networks. so assuming we have a commercial

partner that partners with us along with other folks we would actually come we will be in a different band class and we'll harden those networks will give to each particular state. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator markey. and again, thanks very much to the panel, and hearing record will be open for two weeks. during that time senators are asked to do any questions they have for the record upon receipt the witnesses are requested to cement the written answers as soon as possible. again, thank you very much for your participation. this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

>> and both chambers of congress and today working on the human trafficking to listen majority leader mitch mcconnell says needs to move forward before the senate works on the nomination of loretta lynch attorney general. to the senate in at 3:00 eastern time, about 40 minutes from the. they will consider executive nominations for the department of transportation and commerce. tonight at about 6 p.m. eastern senator tom cotton of arkansas delivering his first floor speech. expected to focus on national security and funding for defense defense. the house returns at 2:00 for legislative work including a measure to fund trauma care centers and later this week they're expected to take up the senate passed resolution disapproving of regulation on union election rules. the white house has issued a veto threat on that measure. before the senate devils in, and about 35 minutes will take a look at politics and policy on

capital and abroad. >> bill kristol of "the weekly standard," founder and editor, thank you as always for joining us. >> guest: good to see you. >> host: one of the many things your writing is this story in "the weekly standard." the headline, the party of the fertile ground. you write that if you're an established member of republican ripples of doubt are intruding on your normal contentment. you go on to write that if abroad for a ring were thinking the republican establishment would be geniuses. if hand-wringing were prudent gop politician will be exemplars. if overclocking were eloquent, conservative elites would be orators for the ages. what are you saying? >> guest: sometimes they read better than they sound. no i just annoyed last week by the amount of tongue clicking and whirring about some established republicans and some conservative pundits, even

about take the case of trey gowdy republican should look like processed with it, move on. and, of course, hillary clinton is, great for republicans. the use of the private account, e-mail i got at the state department. how did they get exposed? trey gowdy. then i ran. we need a bassist debate about iran congressional role in the treaty and the tree itself. how did that really, how was that provoked? by prime minister netanyahu sticking your? and then by the tom cotton lead with a 46 of the republican senators which forced the center, what is the status of congress and he arranged think there's? what did secretary kerry thank you signing? then the sort of worrywarts tony lake having an iran today but they don't are provoking people much and they become tom cotton could've spent the letter to obama and not the iranians. i did want to make the case that

politics is like baseball and hardball. i think all those if they all behave properly they've also been willing to be tough to enforce necessary debates that wouldn't otherwise have happened post that you write it done more for conservative principles in the last few weeks than the prowl for words and ringers and tom clockers have done in years. bill kristol in "the weekly standard." this letter by tom cotton the 47 republicans. what was your first reaction when you heard about it? >> guest: i heard it was nothing but hadn't read it until it came out. i thought it was great and i think it's great. it's an open letter so this notion that he's secretly communicating with the iranians and going behind secretary kerry's back or something. it was very useful it turns out to explain that congress at least or at least almost all republican senators i think a lot of democrats, think congress has to overrule. as it turns out the iranians

didn't think so. doesn't sound like secretary kerry has missing a lot of time telling the iranians in geneva or elsewhere that hey, congress gets a say on this. the iranian foreign minister said no we negotiate to do with secretary and president obama. if the u.n. -- at the u.n. security council blessing and that's it. can't be change. congress has nothing to say? very useful that the letter from the republican senators provoked this discussion. also think it went out there. and forced the big debate and allowed a lot of people like bob corker to say i'm not one of these slightly aggressive guys who signed the letter. i'm a reasonable guy but how about my bipartisan legislation? that would require congressional legislation. that is picked up sponsors in the last week. one of the great myths of conventional wisdom is the conflict has backfired. not at all. if anything it has advanced the

notion out there that you can't let the president unilaterally negotiate, not just negotiate negotiate agreement with iran that binds future presidents and congress forever. >> host: you were quoted in a new times piece about tom cotton. sender to behind iran letter is the latest freshman republican distressing so. he's 37, been around for about two months but you say, cotton is ahead of the mainstream of republicans on foreign policy and king. most of his run in 2016 will sound a lot more like and then ran poker tell us why? >> guest: to be a big debate in the republican party about foreign policy and there is an isolationist wing not, whatever, i have thought for quite a while that that's the power of that was overstated. i suspect in the last year became clear that you have a ton of republicans refer open senate seats in 2014, a lot of them one, they did run as rand paul

republicans. cabanas peace through strength reaganite republicans. cotton joint first gardner. i thought for a while the rand paul effect was overstated. the media likes to play my. is a good politician, good at promoting and so. i don't think you will end up well in the primaries. i think effect all these republican senators signed the letter makes clear that the mainstream of the republican party is more hawkish than president obama not in the case of rand paul. rand paul tweeted or he is against all in a say, the entire national security agency phone program, collection of phone records. really? were not going to listen to anyone anywhere in the world? isn't that important intelligence to be getting about terrorists when they are planning plots against americans abroad or against the continental united states? this wasn't the main point of the letter, just some reporter from the past or thought about the relationship. it's become fashionable, who is this guy?

just two months, he shouldn't be doing this kind of thing. he's a very bright guy serves as an infantry officer in the army harvard law school grad clerked i think for an appellate court judge. knows quite a bit about constitution and i think that what is an intelligent letter. i'm glad to see the younger senators again leadership role. i say this in marco rubio ted cruz. they don't always agree on everything, joint first, and rand paul for that matter. republican party has been hurt for a while politically. they need to be the party of 65 year old white guys have been around forever. same ol' same ol' a little bit of the mccain, bush and all kind of party. they're all good men but it was importantly generational turnover in the party. i think cotton is at the cutting edge of that. tom is 37 to join ernst is in her early force of the. cory gardner is 39. uk bunch of new