of providing the certainty and the justice that those individuals need. i will do everything i can to bring an order to the floor this summer and when you don't see me when i go missing you know i am working behind the scenes to see that happens and get staff support we need. >> can you give us a preview of the march 26th meeting? >> i think you know one thing before us and that is we are going to do the reauthorization and that is the satellite service authorization as well as there is a local number portability item which is averages of possible which is speaking about -- we have one of our task forces one of our support groups, an advisory

committee we rely on is something called nancy which is the national counselor for local portability and they have made a recommendation for the contract for the entity that will provide that particular service. that is an item that got a lot of press over the last few weeks and that is one of the items on the agenda. you probably guessed i will talk about that as much other than to say we have a recommendation and we will vote on that at the march meeting >> are there concerns this would go a foreign head quartered company ericson? >> these are some of the things that have been looked out by not just the fcc, but you probably know there are a number of eyes on this particular item. you know rest assured all of

the protocols and input we would have to consider those things have been done and we will have the capacity ability to make a decision based on all of that that has been cleared. that part has been done and we will be able to make a clean decision in a couple weeks. >> and one last question. we have a minute left >> part of the side effect of the reclassification of broadband was the federal trade commission lost its authority and part of the order includes new privacy regulations. do you think the fcc is able to fill in for the federal trade commission on privacy? are you worried about the ftc loosing authority here? >> i am not worried. we are not talking about online applications whether it comes to what the -- when -- fcc did with reclassification. i am not in a position to say how the ftc should do their job

but that part of the engagement on application is still in their court. we have complimentary functions it and is important no matter where you are, whether you are signing on or participating or taking advantage of the applications, you need to be protected all along that claim. and we have complimentary functions that will continue. there might be a tug here and there but it is healthy because it is our willingness to make sure the consumers are protected and we will make sure we have plugged every possible hole along that plain. >> thank you both for being here. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> c-span created by america's

cable companies 35 years ago sg brought to you as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. federal communication's commission chair tom wheeler will be on capital hill following the newly approved net neutrality rules. he will testify to the oversight committee about the relationship between the fcc and the whitehouse. you can watch it live tomorrow at 10 a.m. eastern on our website. according to a government report federal agencies made $125 millionbillion in improper payments last year. we will hear from social security officials next. and then the u.s. commission of civil rights holding a hearing

on workplace discrimination focusing on lgbt's. >> this weekend we learn about the life of columbiaus, georgia. >> inside here is an iron clad from the uss jackson. the oval shapes are the gun ports of the jackson. the jackson is armed with six brook rifles. the particular one firing today is one of the guns built specifically for the jackson. it was cast at the selma naval works in selma, alabama and completed in january of 1865. the real claim to fame is connect today the fact there are only four iron clads from the civil war we can study and the

jackson is right here and this is why this facility is here. its first and foremost to tell the story of this particular iron clad and show people there were more than just one or two iron clads. there were many. >> watch all of the events from columbus saturday and sunday. up next a senate panel investigated inactive government records. officials from the social security administration testify about errors in what is known as the death master file. we hear from a woman who was listed as deceased from the social security administration. ron johnson chairs the committee committee.

>> the meeting comes to order. first of all, i want to welcome all of the witnesses here. appreciate your thoughtful testimony. the hearing is called the title is examining proper payment and errors in the death master file. in particularly we have a very interesting witness who has truly been the victim of in inaccuracy and i have to say when i read your testimony and i would really recommend everybody reading the full testimony, it is quite the story, but i was struck by you made the statements it has been said washington, d.c. is the capital of unintended conscious consequences and we will see that here today.

we will start off with ms. rivers testifying and i will offer every senator a chance to offer one question. no statements because we have to move on and we are time constraint. we want to hear ms. rivers' story. i have a written statement i will enter to the record without objection. and i will turn it over to tom carper, our ranking member who is doing the work on this particular issue for -- i will not say how many years, but you have been dedicated to trying to correct the problem of improper payments in the federal government. so you probably a have a few words to say and i will turn it over to you. >> thanks for pulling this together and for the witnesses joining us today. the work i did on improper payments i did with tom coburn whose birthday was this weekend. he is retired but i know he is

here in spirit. he used to say the banks are where the money is. and there is a whole ton of as we know. well, our fiscal situation is improving but we have a big budget deficit. it is about 1/3 of what it was 5-6 years ago. we have a debt of $18 trillion. and agencies are struggling with tight budgets and facing su sequestration we cannot afford to make the mistakes. the proper estimate represents almost $19 billion increase over the previous year after going down for a number of years an increase of $19 billion. the payments come from 70 programs and more than 20 agencies. medicare and medicaid to the department of defense. if we get a handle on the debt we can show how we care for the

money and we need to sharpen our pencils and stop avoiding mistakes and make the agencies and programs vulnerable to fraud and abuse. congress has taken steps to help agencies address this challenge. first they were addressed through legislation that started in the house in 200. improper payments act required agencies to estimate the level of improper payments made each year. 2010, we followed up with the proper payment recovery act that expanded the requirements for agencies to identify prevent and recover improper payments. 2012 senator collins, scott brown and i went further with the recovery and improvement act. building off a good initiative of the administration the law made the president's donot pay program that is designed to screen all payment and double

check basic eligibility requirements. it allows a government agency to check whether someone should be paid before the government pays them. that is common sense. i hope to have a discussion with the witnesses especially the ones who are here to talk about how the edge legislative issues are or are not working. and we will discuss the specific problems of people making payment do is people who are deceased. the inspector general reported $600 million in improper payments were made to federal retire retire retirees who were found to be dead. the payments to dead people are not unique to this one program. they -- by collecting data on individual whose died may curb hundreds of bill millions maybe

billons, in funds. i am happy to tackle the improper payment do is dead people but unfortunately we have more work ahead. the social security inspector general released a report saying 6.5 million people have active social security numbers who based on their own records would be more than 112 years old. i think maybe in our country we have had just a handful of people actually live that long. we are told 56.5 million. i am not sure where they are. they are out there or maybe not. in 2000 the records seemed to show living individuals with activity social security numbers born before the civil war. only 35 people are 112 or older in the real world. we will hear about insuring accurate information about who is alive or dead and what should

be concerning to us is that inaccurate death data may lead to improper payments by many other agencies across the government and also creates greater vulnerability for fraud. we will hear more about this from today's witnesses. the administration deserves a lot of credit for making initiatives to curb waste and fraud. the office of management budget will describe this and we need to move more and must use every tool able to put the house back in order and give the american people the government they deserve. it is the right thing to do. i think of the constitution and it speaks in order to form a perfect union in this area but we should strive for perfection because everything we do we know we can do better. i look forward to continue to with the administration the chairman the colleagues and outside of the committee to make

progress in reducing the improper payments. >> is the tradition of the committee we swear in witnessess. so if you stand and raise your right hand. did you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? thank you. our first witness this afternoon will be ms. judy rivers. she is a private citizen from alabama. she has been mistakingly listed as deceased by the federal government twice. she will tell the story and the impacts the errors have on innocent taxpayers. i have to commend you for going public with your trials and trib hopefully your testimony helps other americans. we look forward to your testimony. >> would you turn on the microphone, please? thank you so much.

>> thank you. i was told to do that. first of all, good afternoon, chairman johnson, ranking member carper and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to speak about my experience with the death master file. my name is judy rivers and i have twice been listed on the death master file. the first incident occurred in 2001 and it was actually fairly painless because i had no idea it actually happened. i had a couple of identify theft situations. someone forced money from my bank but i never heard of the death master file. those were cleared up and i continued on. the second occurrence happened during the worst period of my life. i spent 17 months taking care of

two terminally ill parent and was at the lowest point of my life. this situation didn't help. i could never imagine missing hopelessness, homelessness, loss of reputation and credibility, up able to find a job apartment, student loan or even buy a cellphone. without a social security you can do nothing in the united states. being suspected as an identify thief was a way of life. every hr person i interviewed with police who have pulled me over for perhaps going a little too fast -- the first thing they do is go through your records, push you through a file and when you come up as deceased the insurance actually doesn't know if it belongs to you then a lot

of questions start. and it becomes uncomfortable. i would like to make it clear all of the problems i have had during the past fives year are not only as a result of the death master file. however the death master file has been like a proprogating under the problems i had. so the fact i didn't have an identity made everything worse. it started when i was providing full-time care to my parents as i said. when my parents passed away their home was sold and i had to relocate very, very quickly. my entire life since the age of 17 i have supported byself put myself -- myself -- through school and i have never not had a job or not work on my own firm for 30-something years and been blessed in that area. when i start looking for a job

and apartment and i am not able to get one it is like wait a minute? what is going on here? everywhere i searched everywhere i applied i was turned down. finally i had to leave my parent's home quickly and i contacted an old friend asking if i could barrow a spare room for a few month -- weeks and that turned into a few months. unfortunately the landlord asked he to leave because i was not on the lease. i went apartment searching and the question of my creditability and the fact my social security number didn't check out i was unable to find an apartment. after searching for three weeks and with no choice and thought was something only happened on television i had to move into my car. i got basic information on how

to do that and the best place do is stop like truck stop for protection. so my two puppies and i lived in a car for two and a half months. i was searching for an apartment or room and kept going further out in alabama in order to find someone who probably didn't check closely but was still unsuccessful. my situation improved after i ran into an old friend named mary kate. she had a business building and at the top she had converted to an apartment. knowing my parents very well and being sympathetic to my situation she offered the apartment to me. where was in the apartment two hours later after the approval. -- i -- it was huge and empty

and i felt like i was living in a castle at the moment. no bed, chair, sofa or anything because my furniture was still where my family had been ill. she brought me towels and a couple items and i was one very happy person. during that period of time while i lived there i continued my search for a job. i continued my search for a student loan. i had reviewed what was available on the internet and decided i needed to increase skills in the area of project management management. so i applied to 20 online schools and three physical schools in for a student line. everyone turned me down. -- loan -- the information where received when i asked why i was being turned down included

comments look your information cannot be verified your social security number did not match or we cannot find your records. finally, becoming concerned i went to the local fsa office and asked them to check my records to see if i was in the files and everything was fine. they did is very fast check and said the records are in order, everything is fine and you are alive. and i said well could there be a mistake in the past? i was informed at that time we cannot check the past. if you have been listed at some time when the new files are created on a weekly bases and sent out your name would have been removed and we don't retain those. so there was no way for them to tell me if i had been or not been listed but since everything was in order it was fine. i thought i was fine. my situation at that point went

from bad to worse. the apartment building i lived in, and this was approximately a year and a half later, a fire code made it necessary for me to leave. as an office building it only had one enterance and exit which wasn't acceptable in the walker county area at the time. i went on apartment search, no luck, so unfortunately, one more time i had to move back into the car again. it was becoming a habit. the next thing that happened to me in march of 2010 i had a -- i was involved in a car accident. a lady hit and rear ended me while i was sitting at a red light. i didn't feel or hear anything. but i woke up in the hospital and was told i had seven vertebrae in bad shape.

they kept asking me all of the these question and there was a lot of confusion about my insurance, whether i owned the car i was in whether i really was who i said i was. so i called an attorney turned everything over to a legal form and said whatever is happening, please get me out of this. i went home -- excuse me when i say home i mean car. i went back to the car and started researching and trying to find anything who can help me. during that time i contacted the irs, the social security administration fcra everyone that i could thing of and every name that came up in my search for any information or hope. no agencies could offer me any help. the first person i spoke to that offered me any time of insight

was pam dixon and nina olsen. they were both a great help in providing the information to me. nothing to do no apartment, still no job still unable to find any kind of job, a couple at my church found out my situation and offered me a camper they had on their property in which to live. i graciousiously and humblely accepted the invitation saying i am only going to be there a few months but unfortunately i am still there. the good thing is these people are very close to me and taken me into their family. i have really enjoyed knowing them. i will tell you that living in a camper and especially with two puppies is not a lot of fun. the only work i have actually been able to obtain is work such as cleaning houses and

caregiving. and coming from an ex executive position with a six figure imine imine -- six-figure income is not something you like to do. this takes away from med cal from fraud the living and decease and united states government. it seldom goes away when it hits you is my experience. the problem is when you get one area cleared up such as one credit reporting agencies or one banking institution report the problem is someone calls them for report and when they are on the phone and i have listened to this happen they say well this woman has applied for 23 credit

cards in a period of four years. no one needs that many credit cards. she can not be that honest and you are right back on the list and nothing goes forward. it is a matter of every time you get one spot solved it pops up somewhere else. you get one school to approve a loan, two weeks later you get a notice because they contacted other people and they have denied the loan. so from a stand point of trying to handle the entire situation i really have not figured out a way to control the traffic. and i would like to say this: i had contacted all three cra's, the major one -- banking, financial institutions that provide information -- and only one company in a period of three years every responded to me. they didn't answer a phone call or a letter. so i had no idea of what was

going on and where. finally, i contacted mr. ron pearl hope who started the dmf. ron and his brother, robert made several conference calls with me and checked their database and they told me i was listed in january of 2001. and finally check system contacted me and sent me a letter telling me yes, they had reported me as deceased and the information they received was from the social security administration and i was listed as dead in 2008. they did not provide the month however. so i found out where the information was coming from but i didn't find any way to stop it even though i have been removed from the death master files. what i am hoping and what i don't understand is that just in

the research i have done i have had over 20 hearings in the senate and congress on the death master file and so far i have seen nothing come out of the hearings. what i am hoping is you will provide a program that will provide help for victims because we have nowhere to go. secondly, you will either stop distributing the database or find a way to toss it out, start over rebuild and do it correctly and have a zero mistake. and thank you very much for having me here. i appreciate it. and please, do something for the government and do something for the victims. >> thank you, ms. rivers. very powerful testimony and obviously that is the gel goal of this committee is to work toward solutions so it doesn't happen to another american. so my question is you have been

removed from the death master file? do you know when that occurred? was it prompted by your action? did you find out it just happened? >> actually and you will find this a bit funny i only found it happened in the last couple of weeks that i was listed on the death master file in 2008. check system the one person that answered my letter sent me a letter dated august 27th the reality was i was spending them correspondence in october and later. it stated they had reported me as deceased upon information received from social security administration and that i had died in 2008. >> there wasn't a process you were working with the social security administration where you fill out forms and you knew your name is removed from the death master file? >> yes, sir. >> you did go through that

process? >> several times. >> but you only found out you have been removed? >> i had the letter but unfortunately since it said send us all of the your information and we will do an investigation. ...

i once asked a friend of mine, tell me about this death master file. what is it? he said to me, with tongue in cheek, it's a file in which you don't want you name to appear because if it does you're dead. turns out not always. not always. you're living proof that doesn't always happen that way. if you had 0 do this again, what would you do differently and what would you suggest we do? every one of us have cop city opportunity service teams and we're called every day. and one of the issues we deal with a lot is social security and if you had been a citizen of delware, you call our offices we would have been all over this on your behalf. so keep that in mind. what would you do differently, what should we do differently? >> right at this moment i really -- other than flying out to washington and sitting in a

social security administration's office until i found some answers, i don't know what i would have done differently. having been in the marketing and communications and business development area for 35 years when i found out what was happening, i sat down and created a marketing plan for myself. and i'm very thorough in that area and a letter campaign to companies all over the united states. i contacted everyone in the system that i could think of. i searched for companies and i found that one thing is, if i had experienced a major identity theft right at the beginning, i would have been much better off because at that point i would have been alerted, i could have filed a police report and somebody would have started investigating. but at the point i was, no identity theft, very candidly no

one took it seriously and no one believed me. >> the second half of my question is, what should we do differently? >> regarding the dmf totally -- >> just to try to make sure this thing doesn't happen again to other folks in our country, given what you have learned. >> as i maybe mentioned i think the database needs to be cleansed thoroughly. i think an agency should be put in charge that can control it. the sources from which the information is obtain she'd be clarified. i think very strong regulation some be placed on the agencies that are distributing this information because one of the regulations is verify the information before it's used. i was listed twice. no one ever contacted me. and of all the people i've talked to, no one ever contacted them. the first thing i would do immediately is, i would develop a complete communications

program for people both living people that have been listed as -- mistakenly and additionally individuals of families that have been deceased and the desealsed person has been used for tax fraud, identity theft draining the bank account, et cetera. these people have nowhere to go, either, and they hurt just as badly as i do. but there is not one web site, there's not one place to call, there's no one that knows anything. i visited 18 separate social security offices. out of those 18, 12 new what the death master file was so even within the social security system the word is not going through. this people need to be trainedded to provide information. >> senator langford. >> just a point of interest for me. how did you prove you're alive? what documents did you have to bring in, the final shift on it

when you finally had the opportunity to explain to someone, this is really me, i'm still alive. what were you asked to show to verify that? >> social security administration asked for your birth certificate, if you have it driver's license, with photograph or photographic i.d., they would like to have copies of invoices and correspondence you have received either at your place of business or your home copies of check stubs, everything single thing you have that would identify you as you and prove that it is you. and they're very thorough going through the material and all of the same material i included in every package i sent out to every company that i contacted. >> okay. thank you. >> senator peters, one question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. quite compelling testimony, miss rivers itch also feel bad for

you and apologize you have bon through all of this. we have to get to the bottom of this. this is not the first time i've heard of this case. we had a case in michigan with a marine who was listed as dead twice and lost veterans benefits and had the treasury department close his account a whole host of difficulties. so unfortunately there are others in this situation not just yourself. a question as far as the timeline of your mentioned in 2008 is where you learned you were listed as dead. but you also mentioned you went to the social secured administration and they said everything was okay. where was that in the sequence of events and when did the record actually get cleared or is this something you constantly are put back on the list. if you could clarify that for me. >> let me step back and clarify one thing. i didn't learn that i was deceased until 2008. in 2008 is when the problem started happening that i was not

aware of really what was causing them. that's what caused me to go to social security office. the actual first tomb i found out that it had been listed as deceased is after my accident the insurance company settled went to a new bank and opened an account, and they were happy to open an account, take my money. when i went back three days later, to open a savings account, they ran me through the system. the bank manager came over and ran me through the system. said we can't help you today. and i said, why not? and she said, because information we have reports you as deceased. and i demanded to know who was reporting the information. and also where it was coming from, into supposedly what date i died. they absolutely refused to tell me anything. by law and under fcra i thought i was entitled to that information. however, the bank refused to give it to me, and later when i

found out check systems was the one that supplied that information. they still refused to provide me with anything. so april of 2010 is when i actually found out i was in the file. >> is that when you went to the social security administration? >> again issue had already been. >> several times. >> yes sir. >> and they told you repeatedly you're okay. >> each time. >> but it was clear you were not okay as every time you turned out you were being given inaccurate information, even though you were going into the office. >> correct. >> thank you. >> miss rivers, thank you for your testimony. i think every member of this committee offers an apology and certainly our commitment we'll work with the people in the agencies to try and create law create legislation that will prevent this from happening to another american. so, thank you again for your testimony. you're dismissed. thank you. our next witness will be

sean bruin. he joins us today from the social security administration where he serves as a senior adviser for audit in the office of budget finance quality. mr. bruin. >> thank you chairman johnson, members of the committee. thank you for inviting me to discuss steps to strengthen the integrity of federal payments. i am senior advicer to the deputy commissioner for budget finance quality and management at the social security administration. my remarks will focus on our collection of death information-its accuracy, and how we share it with other agencies. we collect death information to timely stop paying social security beneficiaries who have died and to begin paying benefits to survivors. each year we post about 2.8 million death reports, primarily from family members, funeral homes and states. this information serves us well preventing around $50 million in

improper payments each month. over the years we have significantly improved our death information collection process, and this information is highly accurate. of the millions of reports we receive annually, less than one half of one percent are subsequently corrected. still, we continually strive to improve the accuracy of our records. since 2002 we have worked with states to increase the use of electronic death registration. or edr. edr automatic mates the death reporting process by enabling states to verify the name and social security number of a deceased individual against our records before they issue a death certificate or transmit a report of death to us. thus death information reported to through edr is the most accurate possible. currently, 37 states the city of new york, and the district of columbia, provide death reports to us through edr.

war also currently carrying out a major multi year redesign of the death information system to make it more efficient and reliable. accurate information is important not only for the administration of our programs but because we share the information with other agencies and with the public. as a result of a lawsuit brought against us under the freedom of information act we must share death information we collect and maintain from nonstate sources. we do so by distributing information through the department of commerce. in sharing this public file subscribers are informed and have been informed for many years, that ssa does not have a death record for all persons that we cannot guarantee the voracity of the file and that the absence of a particular person is not proof that person is alive. the department of commerce is authorized to share nonstate death information on an immediate basis with entities that have a legitimate business

purpose or a fraud prevention interest for such information. however, under the bipartisan budget act of 2013 the public may only access nonstate death information that is at least three years old. congress put this restriction into place to ensure that fraudsters could not use a decease person's personally identifiable information to seek fraudulent tax refund. we're limited in our ability to share step information specifically under the social security act we may share state death information with agencies administering federally funded benefits. thus we share all of our death information, including state records, with the center ford medicare and medicaid services the department of defense, and the internal revenue service, among others. treasuries do not pay portal is an important part of the administration residents efforts to fight improper payments and allow federal agencies to carry

out a review of available databases with relevant information on eligible. however, under current law, we can provide state department information to the department of treasury for purposes of do not pay. to remedy this the fiscal year 2016 presidents budget includes a legislative proposal that would that are us to -- authorize us to share all death information we maintain with do not pay. we note that s614 introduced by rank ranking member carper co-sportily chairman johnson, also aims to address the gap well would be happy to provide technical assistance to the committee on its bill. we also ask congress to sport the department of health and human services request for fund to increase participation in edr. because death reports collected through edr are highly accurate we believe that universal

adoption of edr would be the single most effective step in ensuring our death records are of the highest quality. additionally, i would hope that you will support the robust package of program integrity related legislative proposals, proposals that will help detect prevent and recover improper payments, including in the president's fiscal year 2016 budget proposal. finally, would like to recognize the work of our office of inspector general, most recently an audit in which they looked at death information in decades old records. we're pleased they found no fraud in either the social security program or nye federal program. we have agreed with 28 of the 31 recommendations that the oig has made in this area over the past few years, us a explain any written statement these recommendations have led to an enhancements in our systems. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this very important issue. i would be happy to answer any

questions you may have. >> thank you mr. brune. our next witness is patrick o'carol, jr., inspector general for the social security administration since 2004. mr. o'carroll has 26 yours of service for the united states secret service. mr. peril. >> good afternoon, chairman johnson, ranking member carper and members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to par tis mitt inning this discussion. my office investigates hundreds of social security misuse every year but recently one incident out from the rest. a man opened two bank accounts with social security numbers that belongs to people northern 1886 and 199 -- 1893. we can safely assume these people who today would be 129 and 122 years of age, are deceased. however, according to ssas databases of social security number holders these people are alive ssa does not have dates

of person for eperson or holder records. our audit fors found out these two record were anything but unique. re reported 6.5 million people whose social security records indicate they are over 112 years old do not have a date of death on the social security number record. without a date of death on the database these people do not appear on the agency's death master file. i should note that none of these aged number holders are improperly receiving social security benefits and overpayments are not occurring. but these inaccuracies create a significant void in death data available to the public. re recommend that ssa update the records and update the discrepancies. the odd disis relevant to the discussion on improper payments because benefit paying aeg agencies like hhs and irs and other public and private entities use the death master

file to verify deaths and ensure payment accuracy. additionally, as the committee node, the improper payment and elimination and recovery and improvement act of 2012 included a do not pay provision which requires federal agencies to review lists of deceased or ineligible individuals before making payments. the death master file is one of those lists. to identify and prevent its open and other agencies improper payments ssa -- must obtain and maintain accurate records. there are less than one thousand indicates each in month in which a living individual is mistakenly included on the death master file. ssa said it moves quickly to correct the situation when errors occur. this agency reports it is not found conclusive evidence of past data misuse. however, we remain concerned because these errors can lead to premature benefit termination and social security underpayments, and cause

financial hardship and desstress to those affected. i have addressed in my recent action -- and will delay the public release of death data through the death master file wimp believe the actions could mitigate some issue is just mentioned. ssa must accurately process the death reports it receives to terminate payments to deceased beneficiaries and avoid overpayments. in several audits we estimated ssa has paid millions of dollars to by-riz after their deaths. based on our audit work and recommendations, ssa now matches and corroborate payment records with number holder records every month, and age exchanges data with hhs to identify deceased beneficiaries based on their enrollment but non-usage of medicare. these initiatives have improved ssas ability to process benefit terminations due death, recover overpayments, and refer allegations of deceased payee

fraud to our office. last year we investigated over 600 people for deceased payee fraud. these are cases of individuals who conceal someone's death to ill illegally collect social security benefits. criminal convictions of 150 people and $5 million in officers, restitutions and projected savings in one example, a woman collected her mother's social security and federal civil service benefit ford 35 years after her mother died. ssa identified the case through the medicare nonutallization project. last year the woman pled guilty to government theft and was sentenced to 18 months of house arrest. the was ordered to repay $350,000 to the ssa and opm. this is a high investigative priority. cases of deceased payee fraud can lead to significant government recoveries and savings and federal prosecution efforts helped deter others from committing this crime.

before i conclude i want to acknowledge our audit fors and a littles outstanding work has garnered national media attention. we're meeseed our evers are making an impact in promoting overdue discussion on these issues but i speak for my entire staff when i say we don't do this work to make news headlines. we do this work to ensure the integrity of ssa's program and promote public confidence in social security and the federal government. this and is always will be our sole mission wimp'll continue to work with ssa and your committee to address the issues discussed today. thank you again for the invitation to testify and i'll be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you, mr. o'carol. our next witness is the current controller of the office of management and budget. mr. madder held various position ted irs from 1971 to 2003 and then ten years in private sect for before returning to government service. >> thank you mr. chairman, and

distinguished members of the committee for inviting me today to discuss the federal government's ongoing efforts to prevent, reduce and recapture improper payments. i appreciate the opportunity to provide an update on this important topic. our partnership with the congress consultation with gao, and the important support of the ig community over the years has been vital to our efforts. addressing improper payments asia central component of this administration's effort to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse. when the president took office in 2009 the improper payment rate was 5.2% an all-able to high. since then the administration working together with the congress has made progress by strength 'king the accountability and transparency through annual reviews by inspector generals and expanded requirements for high priority program such as requirement to report supplemental measures and program information on payment

accuracy.gov. as a result of this effort in 2013 we reported an improper rate of 3.53%. during fiscal year '14 we experienced an improper payment rate increase in major programs, including medicaid, fee for service, earned income tax credit and medicaid. and unemployment insurance. over the same period other major programs experienced improper payment rate decreases including medicare part c supplemental nutrition and assistance program and public housing rental assistance. as a net these changes resulted in a government-wide improper payment rate of 4.02% or 125 billion. notwithstanding this, agencies recovered roughly $20 billion in overpayments through payment recapture audits and other methods in 2014.

while progress has been made over the years, the time has come for a more aggressive strategy to reduce levels of improper payments than we are currently seeing. that is why the administration has proposed to make a significant investment in activities to ensure that taxpayer dollars are spent correctly by expanding oversight activities in the largest benefit programs and increasing investments. over the years the administration has worked with the congress on legislation regarding this topic, and these laws have provide evidence agencies withnew tools and techniques to prevent, reduce and recover improper payments. the president's fy16 budget provides the opportunity to build on this congressional support and administration activities to reduce improper payments. there's compelling evidence that investments in administrative resources can significantly decrease the rate of improper payments and recoup many times their initial investment.

examples of proposals in the fy16 budget include a robust package of medicaid and medicare program integrity proposals strategic re-investments in the irs, a robust package of social security program integrity proposals, a proposal to expand the department of labor's initiative to conduct re-employment and eligibility assessments and re-employment services and improving further the accuracy of the death master file by sharing across multiple agencies. in addition, -- and this began long before we knew what the improper payment was was going to be for the fiscal year -- the office of management and budget issued an appendix to its circular on internal controls entitiled "requirements for effective estimation and remediation of improper payments." and agencies were instructorred to re-examine improper payment strategies on a number of fronts

governmentwide. these new guidelines were issued in october of 2014, and provide strategies for agencies inspector generals to key on improper payments. in addition to these government wide initiatives on february 26 of 2015, the director of omb sent letters to agency aids for dol, hhs ssa and treasury that have the largest priority programs. this direction requires the early implementation of the appendix c requirements that it just mentioned, by april 30th april 30th of this year. the direction further requires that each agency conduct the following analysis and present it to onb. one, provide a comprehensive corrective action plan for each program in question. 2, review categories for reporting improper payments and,

three, provide analysis linking agency efforts in establishing internal controls to the internal controls they have for improper payments. under this administration we have focused on the issue creased use of technology in data to address improper payments. the use of data analytics provides insight into the methods and improving the performance and decisionmaking capability. examples of agency's current using data analytics to prevent improper payments include the cms' fraud prevention system dols integrity center for excellence. improper payments remains a high priority to this administration. although progress has been made, much more remains to be done and we need your help. we look forward to working with the congress to pass the president's '16 budget and we expect additional progress as we execute against our new improper

payments guidance during this fiscal year. thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you mr. mader. our knicks with is miss davis, from the government aptable office. >> chairman johnson, members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss improper payments and the use of death data to prevent payments to deceased individuals flint. fiscal year 2014, federal agencies estimated that improper payments totaled $124.7 billion. this represents a significant increase of almost $19 billion from the fiscal year 2013 estimate. the increase can be attributed primarily to increased error rates in three major programs. medicare fee for service, medicaid and the earned income tax credit. these three programs accounted for about 65 percent of the 2014 estimate.

nevertheless improper payments are a government-wide problem. the 124.7 billion estimate was attributable to 124 programs across 22 agencies. 12 programs had estimates exceeding $1 billion. one large program temporary assistant to needy families outlays of more than $16 billion, did not report an estimate citing statutory limbses. >> say that again please. >> that tanf, with outlays of more than $16 billion, did not report an estimate citing statutory limitations. in the financial report of the united states government for 2014 gao reported the issue of improper payments as a material weakness in internal control because the federal government is unable to determine the full extent to which improper payments occur and reason -- reasonably assure that appropriate actions are taken to reduce them. i inspectors general are

required to report annually on their agency's compliance and criteria and improper payment legislation in december 2014 we reported that ten agencies did now comply with the criteria for 2013 as reported by their inspectors general. the two moats common areas of thon compliance were publishing and meeting improper payment targets and reporting error rates below 10 thursday there are number of strategied that agencies can employ to reduce improper payments including analyzing the root causes of improper payments in order to design and implement effective preventive controls. one major root cause for improper payments is insufficient documentation. for example, hhs reported this as a primary root cause of improper payments for home health claims in fee for service programs. ...

maintaining death reports could result in untimely or erroneous death data. for example we reported november 2013 that ssa did not independently verify death reports for all social security beneficiaries or any non- beneficiaries before including them in death records. when death date is not verified there is increased risk that such data will be inaccurate or incomplete resulting in other federal benefit paying agencies using data to make improper payments. we identified errors with death data finding instances of records with the day of death preceded the date of birth and records showing recorded a subject between 150 and 195 years of age. we recommended a risk

assessment be conducted always to address, and the feasibility and cost effectiveness of doing so. our report noted that ssa electorate and guidelines for determining agency eligibility to access the folder file. we recommended they develop and publicize guidance to more systematically determine access eligibility endless better inform agencies as to when they might be eligible for access to more complete death data. because death data can be a useful tool in data matching to prevent improper payments, the human efforts are needed to help minimize the risk posed by an accurate and in complete death data and ensure agencies receive appropriate access to the data. as a final.we would like to emphasize it is critical

actions are taken to reduce improper payments. considerable opportunities for agencies, auditors, and other members of the accountability community to work together with congress ensuring that taxpayer dollars are adequately safeguarded and used for their intended purposes. chairman johnson this completes my prepared statement. we are happy we are happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. i would.out the fact the director geo education workforce and security team in might assist in asking questions. prior to coming here today did you take a look at the ms. miss rivers case to find out what the status is with her current status? >> sen. the senator, the news media did not share the case with us beforehand. i did know she was testifying today. i did a look at the specifics of her case. it would it would be unwise to discuss that an open

forum. >> fair enough. how many people are you aware of our in mysteries position? >> fewer than 9,000 per year have that circumstance happened to them. usually, senator we learn of the occurrence by the individual reporting directly to us. we advise the individual that we can correct that if they visit our office. as ms. miss rivers identified, we requested in individual brings several proofs of it is the with them including state issued forms of identity from a birth certificate a birth certificate if they have one so that we can correct the record and when the individual user office we issue them a letter indicating that there was an error in that it has been connected. >> the name may be moved from the master file but the effects continue to linger can you describe what

happens? >> sure. the social security administration shares the public death masterfile committed does not include state data. still around 84 million records with the department of commerce. commercial entities commercial entities can procure that the record, that database from the department of commerce. it is widely used across that only government but the commercial sector as well. the department of commerce requires parties they receive that information to subscribe to updates but sometimes i would suspect i would suspect all entities who have looked at a death masterfile have not looked at the most current death masterfile.

how often are commercial entities required to update those files? >> it depends upon the contractual arrangement that an entity has with the department of commerce. >> can you just kind of describe how someone on death masterfile how identity thefts can create fraud with those names? i can understand the masterfile is published in people can quickly try and claim a tax refund with the social security number which is why information can be held for three years, how else is that fraud committed? >> well, i think our inspector general might be in a better position. >> one of the ways we are finding of the fraudsters are doing it is the more they will do is go to one record that is out there for they're, for example a state record listing all of the deceased people and then go and take a look at one of

the death masterfile and see if a person is alive in one record and dead in the other and then what they will do is claim to be that person and go after the benefits. that is one method. as we know in other cases they adopt the name and information of the person and then file for credit. >> have we considered is there a law to prevent them from doing this? why don't we purge? >> let me 1st say, senator, that the records in the death masterfile we procured largely from the states. the states. the primary reporters are state bureaus of vital statistics for the individual family members doctors, the database contains over 100 million records.

it has been in existence since we began approximately 80 years ago. the record-keeping processes, as you might imagine have evolved over 80 years our current program policy requires evidence of that. the risk and just doing a blanket update or change in data is that it is highly likely that we would create another scenario just like mrs. rivers because in the ig report they identified in a group a group of 6.5 million that there were living individuals. that is because often times individuals who are are on the record lists under a number command they are connected in our databases but the way we connect to them in years past is not as accurate as it is right now. it is possible a while the primary number holder may be deceased there are records links that are not that are

records of individuals that are not deceased. the primary reason we cannot do that is because we want to prevent any inadvertent additions to the bmf of individuals who are still alive. >> we are talking about how many people over 112? >> 6.5 million, chairman. >> right. this is where we want to put in the date of death basically. how many people are living today that are over 112? >> well, one of the records we have is that one of the databases that will show them as deceased and then in another databases will show them alive. 1.4 million.

we have not really set a number in terms of the actual living. we go on the fact that we use the estimate, sort of similar to mr. brown of about 1000 per month living people are, you know report that they are alive on the death masterfile. >> but again those would be much younger people. why don't we just purchased the numb i didn't or list on the the number i didn't a death date of death for people over 150. let's have some sort of protection for somebody that just might -- we are talking about 6.5 million records. 6.4999. why don't we do that? >> you are correct. one correct. one of our recommendations is, just as you are saying with purging, one of the thoughts is that ssa could make a notation on each of those files and make it kind

of like a person that a person that you had to get a replacement social security card. let's say you are a battered spouse need to get a new social security number for security reasons. they put a record on your record, a notation, has been command it shows that that record has to social security numbers. numbers. we are recommending that they put a record like that on all the people over 112 years of age so that one would reflect as deceased but also, if accidentally someone who had a birth date of 1957 and was keyed in as 1857 when they realize that they were losing benefits this is an -- listed as deceased it would be easy for them to repair. >> can the social security administration do that themselves? do you need congress to pass a law? >> sen. johnson, we are currently in the analysis

phase. the audit was issued approximately ten days ago. the good news is they look at this topic.

so i think it i think it was a house member who propose that we start requiring agencies to note what improper payments are and secondly begin reporting them. 2,032,042,005 there is an increase in the number of improper payments that i did not feel good about. the number just kept going up. somebody finally said, your just getting them reported. still not convinced. along around 2010 we reached a time where we fixed most line share agencies were reporting proper payments. we added a requirement. we wanted agencies to record the proper payment and report them.

we also want them to stop making improper payments. we want them to to the extent they can recover monies cannot recover monies. if someone report last year, $20 million that's a pretty good amount of private money. and next up is to say that we came up with the administration and do not pay which is part of the 2012 legislation. last congress we tried to go further beyond that. that sort of thing. did not get through the house because of objections of a subcommittee within the ways and means committee. committee. we will take another run at it. i was stunned when i saw the improper payments number for 2014 because we saw number of years were that number was going down.

it pops up by $20 billion in 2014. given us a very good a very good to do list. i mentioned this the chairman. i won't go through it all. the complies with public integrity and involve spending money at the irs. a lot of people who do work on the earned income tax credit filings. two thirds or three fourths of the people who help people file for eit c are not cpas, may may be very good people, but they are not really regulated by the treasury or have the kind of credentials we might hope. drill down on that. i want you to drill down for us on the ie tc the credentials of the folks who

are helping most people file and what the problem is and what we should do. >> thank you. >> it's a lot of money. >> it's a lot of money. it is important to step back and remember the earned income tax credit program was passed and the president reagan. >> the best antipoverty program in the country. >> last year actually 26 million american families benefiting from benefited from the program. it is one that over the decades has proven its value command i think, sen., you touched on and actually this davis touched on it, too it, too, it is a program that has a high degree of complexity and that it is really based upon claim dependent children and a certain income level.

and with you know with separations, divorce is establishing the custodial parent and making that determination, verifying the income when you're making that credit as to the complexity of the program. he touched on an area the administration has been asking for help and to last couple of years. well over 50 percent of these 26 million eit c payments are actually done by third-party providers who are not cpas are enrolled agents, individuals who are authorized to actually represent uri in front of the internal revenue service they are just they are just preparers. having dealt with this issue for a number of years i am struck by the fact that as a society we seem to register, regulate, license yet we don't want to regulate individuals who actually

have a partnership with the irs in administering the tax administration and it's important credit in a fair way, fair to the taxpayers and to the government. i think in the pres.'s president's budget he once again asks for a series of initiatives, whether it be resources or some assistance in regulating and licensing these preparers. >> just say to my colleagues, i invite there attention to your testimony. i think we start on pages two and three, but proposals in the 2016 budget. you give you give us five or six really good ideas. a really good to do list command i hope that you take it serious. i plan to. let me start with you.

one thing, if you do nothing else do this. >> the 1st step is to look at cleaning up the data in the file. there is a lot of noise in the file. millions of reports annually, less annually, less than one half of 1 percent are corrected. that gives me a concern that this is being brushed off. we no there are issues and problems. it problems. it is easy to say when your not looking at large blocks of cases. if you're not verify reports from family members reports from people funeral directors, verify reports from folks are not beneficiaries your not verify reports are some pieces of the data does not match the record. that is a significant potential amount of non- matches you might have to correct down the road.

to see our report, you cannot fix the reports if you don't know about it. we have it. we have to look at the integrity, clean it up whether it is a look back or perspective 12 there is a lot of noise in the file that needs to be taken care of before it can be a much better program integrity tool. >> senator. >> thank you. thank you for being here. let me make a quick comment. it has been an ongoing issue social security disability. i have dealt with it for quite a while. i have a letter that is still outstanding with ssa dealing with the notice of proposed rulemaking from february of last year. just getting a full record medical records that must be submitted. submitted. i won't bring that up today but it is outstanding.

i won't try to ask you a question directly, but we are still waiting. let me ask a question. the social security administration the right place to manage the death masterfile? it seems like that is kind of growing up organically as a place that will gather. is that the right spot? >> we believe that social security is the organization that is best suited. as my two colleagues social security have justified they are receiving the information both directly from families, funeral homes, states but what we have is a a process and a system that needs to be expanded as both gentlemen testified, we don't testified, we don't have a state that has access to use

the electronic system which clearly improve the quality of the data. there are a lot of fixes that we talked about today that need to be put in place. >> fixable in that current structure. >> i believe so. >> the social security administration, do they feel like this is part of there mission? obviously being shared with multiple agencies, multiple entities are looking to the social security administration to get that information. >> it is important to understand that we need the death information to administer our programs. the use because it is consolidated across multiple reporting sources and is, in fact, very reliable it has grown in value over time. records are being used for purposes they were never intended for when they were actually collected decades ago. date of birth and date of death from several decades ago, no one envisions today

that it would be available electronically to multiple parties outside of the agency. as i indicated -- >> is there something that the agency sells? >> we provide the information. >> is there a cost? >> we are reimbursed for cost's. >> does that come back? >> commerce. >> can the states charge us to get that information?

and confirm that it is a match. we also get it more timely. >> give me an approximate cost. >> cost. >> $3 a record. for those that send the information it is under a dollar. >> what do they do to then verify? is it $2? >> it is an unverified report. >> once processed it goes on we are paying to get the

records, sewing them to commerce, sewing him to and to agencies and other private individuals to recoup the cost. once we go to the verification how much does it cost to verify someone is an unverified name? >> it is not a discrete unit a discrete unit cost. >> is there an average cost? >> we usually have a technician a technician contact a family member and confirm the death. >> 180,000 180,000 individuals died while receiving individual -- disability payments. obviously they are already in social security disability process. e-verify requests and more command more than 90 voter registrations in that group that were already dead. help me understand this process. as you see at this.we have

verified records from states being verified and they come in to me if we have six nap million over 112 years old old with individuals on social security disability. >> senator, that is our biggest concern. we take a look when we did our audit there were 13 people in the united states. by the time we finished there were 109. 35 people over 112 the whole world. 112 the whole world. all of those numbers of their command someone takes those numbers and start misusing them and that is my biggest concern is when that information gets out someone can impersonate the right person, vote. >> names that have never been submitted by a state or been verified by ssa?

>> most of the 112 are from years ago back in the 70s. >> what about disability. >> we are finding people that are listed as deceased and getting benefits. the record that we are talking about today is one file at ssa. the other file is the master when someone calls when someone calls and says there is a deceased person to immediately stop the benefits are going out it is put right on the payment record. were it goes over it gets confusing when you are talking auxiliaries and things like that. it does not list as being

deceased. >> the opening bank accounts, voting, all of these different things that you found as you went through this process : people that have died or are numbers still being used? when they think they are alive. they might even try to get social security benefits. >> i yield back. >> thank you for your testimony and you raise a lot of interesting issues here today. as i mentioned, after testified, this is not an unusual situation given the fact we had a marine veteran that was highlighted in the media for his trials and tribulations with units of the fact that he was improperly list is being deceased a couple times to

the.of losing his veterans affairs benefits, the treasury department shut down his bank account amazed credit score was ruined as well when he was trying to purchase a house and it took them several months to you through the process. process. and so this is an anguishing issue for many folks. you mentioned about 9,000 individuals. >> correct. >> my question is, how do they get -- of those what is usually the event triggering them getting on that list? >> two primary events. >> a reporter. >> correct. we get reports from family members, doctors, the postal service, the treasury. >> a report from a report

from the postal service, not a death certificate. >> that is an unverified report. >> you would not just say let's put them on the death list. >> correct. we would suspend benefits. >> an individual to visit one of our offices provide evidence of their identity. we can do that through his scheduled appointment so that the individual does not have to wait, and usually it takes an hour or two to complete. >> but the problem is that even if that is done in the information is not proactively communicated to the commercial vendors, others, vendors, others, banks, others that might want this information.

is there a way to do that proactively? otherwise we are just relying upon the service to go back and constantly check the list and often times an individual does not know that they are on this list. there is seemingly no explanation and yet no proactive measures on the part of the social security administration to say, we made a mistake. >> correct. the measure that we take, sen., is to share the updated file the following week with the department of commerce. the mistake is corrected. a subsequent week it would be identified as not being on the death master file share with the department of commerce. you asked specifically about the commercial entities. we believe that there would be value.

>> going to the other fascinating part of this hearing, the six and a half million people in your testimony you said that these folks are not receiving social security payments. there is no data in terms of date of death. at some at some time these individuals probably receive social security checks and then stopped. why does not that trigger something? if not getting picking up your mail is enough to get you on the list was stopped them from once they stopped receiving social security checks we can probably assume they are no longer alive. >> the interesting part is many of these were back in the 1970s when people were coming in and say a person who was not getting benefits at the time, family member a widow, jump jump jump

dependent site that is where a lot of these records were created. the person did not have the benefit, benefit, was not a record which is the crux of a lot of these things. old records with little ways of having the ability to get some. >> because they never were receiving a check to begin with. >> right. >> is that why it is the 112 your figure? >> well, we get word from a a financial institution that the two accounts were set up our auditors looked and figured out the highest age of record where we came up with 112th. >> the same kind of numbers? >> it is interesting on that one.

what they had been doing is that when a person reached 100 years of age seven to they would reach out to verify that the person is there. we were getting fairly get good information, probably saving about 8 million per year. then we decided, and i mentioned in my testimony, it makes more sense to take a look at someone not using medicare. and we had to thing is going, age and the fact that they were not seeing a dr. four or five times better results than we were getting just by using the age limit on it. but everybody is aware of that and we keep taking a look. we have had different projects. >> and where are we?

>> we have been using three years. it seems fairly good. it has been so successful that they are doing an audit and taking a look at medicaid. >> thank you so much. >> last year during a hearing a hearing on this subject i learned that we were selling the risks to other government agencies which is hard for me to wrap my arms around. we were told that this is required by law. >> law. >> that is correct, senator. we are required to seek reimbursement. >> let's assume that we could do something legislatively. would you see would you see any reason why we cannot put a secure website of?

we have hundreds of millions of dollars going out the door and they are trying to budget paying you for information. information. all of this is being gathered in the public domain. it seems bizarre to me that we are not focusing on a priority of a priority of a policy that would make information available to others easily. >> we would agree and in our testimony we supported the goal of the ranking member's bill in the presence of budgets to make the fold death file available which provides the complete set of

records to all federal agencies for all federal payments. >> it would be great. here is the other thing that gets me. you get data in. you are putting you are putting it in the system and selling it without verification. >> that is correct. we do not verify records for not beneficiaries. >> you get a record and put it in the system for another agency to buy, but buy, but because it is not a necessary recipient you are not going? >> it is marked as unverified. >> maybe the ig would know or gal would know call are these other agencies going and verifying? >> no. there is no additional verification. the verification. the agencies pay for a data set, an annual set plus

monthly or weekly updates. they get information that they believed to be true and correct and there is no additional verification. >> i would add that i clearly articulated that the intent of the file is for social security purposes. it is aggregated across jurisdictions and his comprehensive for the most part. it does not include every record. we cannot confirm the veracity of the file and a shared verify it if they are going to use it for business purposes. >> what if they want to pay you to verify? can you just verify them all and charge them for it? >> we believe we're verifying records that we should be for the program purpose. >> the law would have to be changed. >> correct. >> daniels is no. >> i don't believe so. they have a pecking order.

reports reports from states are deemed most accurate pre- verified and are deemed to need of verification. there are reports from family members and funeral directors that are believed to be highly accurate. i do not think that is a law >> that is agency policy. >> just one -- >> have you figured out what it would cost you to verify? >> i would have to get back to you for the record. >> with that not make sense?

>> this boils down to a fiscal law question. the agency is not permitted to spend trust fund dollars. >> i just got word for a minute. >> this is an agency that the vast majority of information they are distributing is easily available online. have you given some thought as to your alternative

distribution method? >> we have not because at present we serve as the data clearinghouse. >> and the money goes into a revolving fund which keeps them in existence. this existence. this is an agency that has outgrown its usefulness and purpose. i am determined i am determined and think most of my colleagues share the determination. i think you should begin pricing out. maybe you could maybe you could use that money to verify the other agencies. >> understood. >> thank you. >> we will be supportive of that effort. >> we agree with my colleague on this. so this. so i wanted to ask to understand this information

sharing piece, in order for you to share information it sounds to me because of the limitations put on what you can do with regard to the trust fund we're going to need legislative action to have a broader information sharing. >> the response i provided to the senator was relative prepare to have verifying records. >> as i understand it we are were also as we look at this challenge we are facing in terms of the dmf list we are not sharing among states.

do we share do states share with us -- i no they are sharing in terms of vital records, but do we share with states will we no? >> we do. we share with those states who have a responsibility for a responsibility for administering federally funded benefits. >> of any kind? >> yes. >> one of the things that just seems as i look at this thing we are not communicating amongst each other and then there is also the amount of money at stake here a lot of us talk about wanting to address sequester. we could do it if we got improper payments to a much more reduced level these resources we are talking about this is big money. and so i am looking at this thinking how do we also that

only share information with each other what steps do we need to take to verify and further? a lot of publicly available information we're leaving on the table. i would love to get there impression. isn't they're some publicly available information? >> that is correct. we did not it a few years ago. we were looking at we saw how many records were suspended. and then we found that 57 were deceased. probably one 3rd had the information in their records and it was just a question of cleaning up.

we were able to get death certificates from the state. databases were available. third-party databases are useful. >> third-party information and when i here mr. o'carroll's example what they are doing in submitting the vital statistics command does not have the same kind of accuracy. do you need do you need legislative proposals to be able to consult third-party information? also what is also, what is it that we need to do from the states perspective.

the vital records office would not have submitted that. >> the data set just mentioned, the 58 number holders those recommendations were sensed the agency last friday. the best thing that we can do in my opinion level funding will go a long way. many of the files are in jurisdictions not looking electronic death registrations. funding them to move to electronic.

electronic death registrations verifies against social security before the death certificate is issued but for a report of death is made. this is a lot of money being left on the table that could be used for real things. why haven't we made it a bigger priority? the inspector general mr. o'carroll. i would love to hear why this isn't a bigger priority. this is a huge issue. >> agreed.

we are in a unique a unique position. we represent the council of inspector general's as liaison. there has been a lot more emphasis on identifying improper payments, curbing improper payments. making all of the government agencies compare this information. they won't be sending out a salary check. the only other one data matching between agencies is handicapped in so many different ways. one person on benefit for

one agency and should not be for another. match data to find people also getting disability benefits. but in the know that they have improved. it is that type of data matching that would be extremely useful. >> my time is up. >> it is a lot change and there is a bill out there that is included. >> if you are ready. >> thank you. thank you for your testimony. i do appreciate it. i don't think anyone disagrees.

i would like to ask if you would please my we will read this quote that came from the management. this was in response to their findings and recommendations. the recommendations we will create a a significant manual and labor intensive workload and provide no benefit to the administration of our program. i think we have talked about this. any data they have provided to the government and the public has to be accurate.

none of them are getting benefits. if there is the attention put on it by congress that resources are needed that is important. there are so many other different benefits in the government, plus what we are looking at with voter registration and drivers licenses, every thing else and this is the only thing out there to refute it. >> i agree and think that it is a good start. we do know that now we need to move forward and correct

the deficiencies. there are so many improper payments not to mention some of the issues that have been brought up with those not receiving payments. we also have fraudulent voter registrations, illegal use of numbers for employment or for government assistance. i do believe that you have delivered around 70 recommendations to the social security administration over the past number of years. can you please tell us how many of those have been implemented over the years? >> over the 70 that we have recommended, well, recommended, well, 1st there are two steps. the 1st is an agreement. a 93 percent agreement level fifty 50 have been enacted. in fairness, on some of them we have made maybe four or five audits with a lot of different recommendations.

we bring it to there attention. >> with these recommendations and any others coming out, come can any of you really given overall cost estimate? any of those parameters that might be necessary to make sure the corrections regimented. >> the recommendations from we are committed to making those changes within our appropriation. we have volume to your value

in following the advice given. given. i wanted to close by underscoring the fact the six and a half million all records that were looked at identified zero improper payments. less than 1 percent of our benefit overpayments are resulting from death. processes have improved tremendously over the years. the last decade processes have grown substantially more robust. more accurate information, more timely and 50 million benefit dollars from overpayment.

six and a half million numbers that exist out there. even though they may not be drawing benefits on those numbers command is still an issue whether it is voter registration or some other fraudulent use of a number. that is a concern. >> correct. we have committed to look at those numbers -- records before the end of the fiscal year to do a full analysis of what can be used from those records. >> very good. if you were a lawmaker will bomb maker for a day what would your recommendation be? >> send all states to use electronic death reporting. the adoption rate has been steady.

we only have 37 states and to jurisdictions. jurisdictions. we need all states, all jurisdictions in every state using electronic reporting. the most effective and accurate report that we receive. >> i appreciate that. thank you. >> can you say that again. i want to back if i could. what would it be? you are the only one i got to pick up. that is good. let me ask before we finish this one thing.

i want to come back to the question of your testimony. a series of items and ideas that are contained in the presence 2016 budget. would you step through those for us again? a series of program integrity initiatives. their program integrity initiatives across command i think they have demonstrated in a pilot a pilot program with the states. recognizing that unemployment insurance is a

lot granted the state. they've demonstrated block granting as the key to creative analytics. again in 16 again in 16 we have asked for continued funding of those initiatives. there are about a half a dozen that we mentioned. if we can get through the full master file. that's the one. the other is and i strongly believe in order to save money we need to set.

i believe that i think the ministration strongly believes that we will see benefits and driving not only the rate but the total amount of improper payments down if we are allowed to make those kind of enhancements. >> any comments on what we just heard? >> i believe funding would be the 1st best at.

prospectively giving all would be the way to go. >> in terms of the timing, timing, i seem to recall five months. ..