culture and its prominent in europe of course that has become a secular society. it embraces ideas about liberty and personality that are distinctive and in our own time with socially liberal views about matters of sexuality abortion, life and death issues, generally identity issues. ..

>> >> i was not talking about that particular year generally but it is said the the sector of the culture it is divided with popular opinion is very different and by definition it is more influential william f. buckley once caught the spirit of that talking about his preference been governed

by the first 800 names with the boston in telephone directory. what he was the institution

based on the marital that

gives people the fundamental care and nurturing and education at least until they reach maturity the first years of their lives. create go astray when a substitute operations for the family. in my view it is department of welfare it does better than any can-do but that fundamental job to each new generation the character in the interest to date to be could citizens and all other institutions of the political system depend on there being a fairly large number of people that our hard working lot because

they fear for but they need managers who are responsible. but they cannot produce such people. but then with honest employees with kids is services. and a the family. intend to depend on those people doing the right thing to the fear detection but it is the right thing to do. president bush cannot issue any dicta said there would be virtuous people but the supreme court cannot handle and a ruling requiring their virtuous.

so they do the right thing most of the time it is because they're caught up in the tradition of virtues so friendly is the second pillar of a decent society of a healthy functioning marriage and family culture. such a culture is not only the family that support but the latest institutions about so - - civil society year the neighborhood associations, unions, but boy scouts or a campfire girls they have social significance to assist the family in its welfare function. it is not to do denigrating

unlovable of government we could not get along with a community of families without but there is the fundamental role that cannot be substituted for when the state steps is to take over the role of the family because it has completely broken down to do the best it can but it will not be able to do well with the healthy functioning family can do. , then the third pillar is having a vibrant productive fair and honest legal and political system and one in which people's fundamental rights as individual persons are treated with dignity and

honor honored from private actors where the government itself restrains itself from of major very words should not fear from the mir statice of cognitive and the machine and they go haywire of the left or the right door communism or fascism but we're you don't have a fair and efficient system of government pretty soon he will lose those other two pillars of society. so the is to lose as a culture of respect of fibrin to family culture is fair and effective system of governing is the three pillars of decent societies

stick is the individual's respect the same as for freedom of the individual? >> it includes respect so long is made understand freedom to not simply do what everyone it anytime you want but what our founders distinguished is the respect for the basic civil liberties in in free demos speech in freedom of the press that we associate with the bill of rights is in the due process of law and legal protection those are essentials of their role of government is too full to protect those basic civil rights in civil liberties but to respect them themselves says j. madison said the job of government

is to restrain people from violating is another's rights battle so to restate his cell from doing the same thing to operate within its own limit even as it tries to protect people from other people violating there rights. >> host: often people think of individual rights as topical issues such as abortion increase in asia? >> i don't believe they are is a moral argument in any case ready punitive rate so brady the moral argument so if they have a right to to be defended the reasons. so some people believe they have right to kill themselves or to distance

over to destroy the life of a child in the room by abortion per car want to know the argument but in conscience i have that counter argument. >> host: when it comes to family gave marriages and gay families of those included in the pillar of family with your definition? >> i think it is the conjugal relationship of has been their wife so i criticized the idea that marriage is simply a romantic sexual partnership. i don't see again the argument can successfully be made of the conjugal conception of husband and wife in favor of the few that loaned by the same token that three or four or

five people can be married in a partnership to have a household together. if we recognize the same-sex partnerships we've banded the basic idea. we lose any basis for inferring the traditional norms of marriage. subjectively people day out of habit field day would to stick with those norms that marriages to people, is sexually closed from a permanent commitment rather than temporary but those are subjective desires but not the principal reason. 1/2 to be in the etf of marriage of a conjugal partnership but oriented you

give husband and wife that marriages the you knew that brings together a man and woman as has been and wife to be father and mother to confer upon those children of a gift in love of whose union brought them in giving to those children if it works out giving maternal and paternal influences a and care. not every marriage will have children but every child will have a mother and father and i think what we've he to do poultry or morally is our best to insure as many children as possible are in the bond so the other end of the father

and where that what happened because of debt soared desertion or veritable break up we have ways to deal with that you tried to put children in the best possible situation that culturally the law should be structured to maximize that children would be brought up with that borland. >> host: where do you come up with the title? >> guest: it is uh title of one of the essays. their essays i have written address saying constitutional law or political philosophy. "conscience and its enemies" was of criticism by a the college of gynecology in detector x -- tuned obstetrics restricting health care workers to

decline to participate in abortion if they have a moral objection. bin that the respect for conscience is sparked the title then it became the title of the book. >> host: who is john? >> my doctoral supervisor and a professor of law and philosophy. with the world's leading e theorist with lot am politics a huge orality in talk about your stolid and plato in and antigone agent talk about the middle ages and other christian thinkers. with the of reform to enlightenment in job locked

and which carries ellen to this day one of the ldp and competitors in the field for the of whole of the right to view or the best view so i learned an enormous amount from him as the student. >> host: you are a professor at princeton but where else? >> have contributed 92 through 98 as certain as presidential appointee united states commission on civil rights. i was appointed with president george h. debut bush morning in office so i

was the new the appointment and carried over through president clinton's second term. 2002 was appointed by george w. bush to the president's council of bioethics and i served under the greatest by ethicist of our time at university of chicago and tell he stepped down as chairman and handed it over to another distinguished colleague. since 2012 i have been serving on the united states commission that is a bipartisan independency government agency civil-rights but i was appointed by speaker of the house spader and elected by my colleagues in that i served on united nations commission which is though

world commission in and most of my work there. >> host: the most influential conservative thinkers is with "the new york times" said. >> i am a conservative so i cannot say what did your time does but leges i have been the claims of credit. >> host: calling a temporary conservatism pin of. >> i am glad he said the intellectual. [laughter] >> host: you also got a blurb from justice kagan spee rick is she a friend? >> not close friends but i

am honored she would say such a nice thing about me in that book. i never have had difficulty to have good french ships along theological blindside learn from people on the other side i don't regard them as why adversaries of my friends. for example, dash teaching with my friend cornell west he sees the word did differently in very many ways it is odd of left paillette i'll learn from him and he pays compliments and i think the students learned awful lot with the engagement between the two of us. the bond of wanting to get that the truth and engaged with each other with the goal of getting closer to the truth to see what is

really going on with our deeper understanding. to gain so wisdom from our interactions. but very often i a fat aunt it is the position that it is misunderstood. and he will not understand. >> until they hear the argument that is not a formal public debate but the class related night but to hear the argument with each other. i feel the safeway about the new kagan although free

disagree about most of the great issues she is a person that i've heard from. >> host: is sure class a sellout with cornell west? >> it is over subscribed is dead as the seven are and it is open to 80 but that format does serve to engage in a very deep and serious way. i don't think we could do what we do if we were performing in front of the class source seven or 800 students and that is what we would get with the larger undergraduate lectures so we keep it as a seminar so those that would like to participate can not put those who do will have the

benefit. >> host: talking about thank you are booked as the judiciary branch have too much power? to make a think it has claimed to which power in the of their branches have acquiesce i have more to the view of jefferson irving can about the limits on judicial power. of the founders of our nation has great commentary on the constitution for the ratification. says the least dangerous branch but plays an important role in the in the last several they had a conception that was as powerful. >> sometimes they have the power to do good or bad.

what i want to argue for is for every branch to strictly remain within the limits of their own power to avoid juicer paying for the authority of the a democratically constituted american people who are sovereign. with the idea of judicial supremacy with a constitutional supremacy so altman the people themselves have to take responsibility for the constitution. with those powers under the constitution. >> what is the fallacy? para garett trying to remember civic you are

supposed to know is the mcfadyen is the critique of mario cuomo the late governor of new york that are geared famous lady that he as a catholic as pro-life could not support the two o o portion end date even the public. in my argument was straight for the a fallacy that if you believe if something is fundamentally a bomb or unjust of vivacious and of human-rights so whoever is a preacher or a human being with the individual member has rates but if you except that to be pro-life and the first place then the logic

will take a cue to into recess save the goal protections. if you don't accept the promises and to note except there is wrong with that or that it takes the human life but not a person but only the but if you take that view you have a reason for europe of the fed of porsche's should be legal or publicly funded. but it'' most you was he had the reasons to be personally pro-life but favored not to protect there rights of the unborn child in that was a

fantasy. >> aicher up but to paul humphrey or jfk or martin luther king over both my grandfather's began as coal miners. once spent his entire life there and another is able to get into the kirsch restore business with there were leaders but roosevelt and but that is the different kind of liberalism. >> host: the active? is this the new deal to keep

in those who are in haiti in the i have come fetes story is partially true battle so he is active in the young democrats in twice elected governor of the conference. 1976 and alternate candidate at the convention that nominated jimmy carter. i myself was a supporter of carter. what it got be moving in the more conservative direction

in the in particular it is a portion and that was not part of the picture. but it became that way starting their early '70's as the etf was democratic orthodoxy that a quality in liberty required of legality of a public funding of abortion i thought that was tragically wrong. to put the democratic party on the wrong side of the liberal movement of the moral question and to but the assessing funds but the failure of the great society that for royal tefillin to

have the office of defects that began to cause me to question in my faith with the old-time religion of the new deal or of a new society in to look for other ways. while i was still young probably in my 20s like patrick moynihan and greedy in commentary magazine and the public interest. but there are alternative ways to help people that didn't involve large state-run democracies hint bet that historically they have been so good at

delivering. but to have those morals of of france in the common good while providing a safety net. i fake government should be small been issued no way you steer the integrity of those instances when dash as tuitions of civil society should not try to replace and i think very often is that so that'll move to meet

in the direction of what today is called conservatism. in the earlier era it would not be back idea at all. that was given liberalism at the with a strong civil society liberal. >> also a professor

>> host: on location there protested university where we're interviewing professors of also offers them we will introduce you to you patricia s. hernandez kelly. what is baltimore? >> one of the traces this most important in our nation that the current moment but in an area that receives very little attention. i see my research near its test close to a decade to

understand poverty in the united states and because of this research so if it is but it is about how the government and society interact with impoverished people to the african americans. >> host: what is a population of west baltimore ? >> where i conducted my research the neighborhoods are predominantly black where more than one-third of young women have had at least one child. income levels never per sad

-- surpass ted that women paul or the president and then to show for the first time to show policy in the united states. not just by a scarcity but the overwhelming presence of government officials and the likes of of four her gore recently i was introduced by a different organization and i noticed that it is not unusual for a child but but did does show the beginning

of a trend set is says much as part of that government official. a year and you realize that is not exactly what happened to middle-class families living in affluent neighborhoods. to be diagnosed with 80 ht will attend the school will set already they have had some contacts with coverage officials where there is a form of social workers or is a the form of correctional offices. it is a difficult as a kid to the perceived to still make your life has been but

i do give special attention to news that has not been documented that i feel constitutes of the underbelly of success and that is down child protective services the place for impoverished family is. there underrepresented with both but for those the other and travel for those who are impoverished. that is the problem uzziah trying to save the stated mission of child protective services is a conflict in

that is the childhood even though but with those impoverished parents with their relationship is. >> why baltimore? >> it spoke to rio was of members of the faculty at johns hopkins and affiliated with the policy and originally i set out to do some research in baltimore is part of the unfortunate both can then to be called the truly disadvantaged if it is very persuasive that

part of of problems faced by low income but i was curious to know if that was happening in baltimore because with the mid-level industrial city in 1970 about 34,000 people were employed. by the time i started to look into this question the much smaller people were employed as it curtails operations and as i tried to write it was none difficult to confirm that the industrialization and

closures of factories have had the especially direct affect with african-american working families but then i found myself surrounded by children that our vivacious because that led three to become interested in the paid children perceive surroundings in as high rate that huge new venom well enough that i could trace their life over a period of tenures. so to become a dropout becomes a prostitute and by

1997 at least two of those children had died of violent death. so part of that contribution is how things happen to children living in poverty in realtime. it is not a of results of physical research but many of the things that happened to use the people whose lives are realized have been to the so it is a very sensitive material. i hope it is part of how we do science and it adds to acknowledge production but it is also a very personal narrative. >> host: what you mean the

several agencies? >> i argue that coverage in the united states is extraordinary that the framers and other institutions as a tremendous foresight to create this institution with an immigrant population. but these were the descendants that were about accumulation of property and greater access to education. and they offer the american dream and i get teary eyed because i don't think it is just rhetoric by hobby manipulate people but as a

result will hold mainstream government institutions dealing with its citizens on the basis of their status and consumers so the irs is ultimately interested to separate you from tyranny as a way to finance and initiative. it is a dream come true for those who receive social security payments know how well that works. and works well because that approach is embedded in the features of those offices to treat the interlocutors as consumers but by contrast

institutions of government said deal with the impoverished people to net deal primarily but the ambivalence benevolence as the mixture of suspicion and so that's jubes potential burdens and the consequence is the idea is imbedded have never constitution jews from deportment for example, it talks about bodily fluid that we would find totally unacceptable with transactions with the government. it is part of the legacy

that we have from england in which we believe poverty is the result so we think of it as evidence that because but it is one of those instances when compared to property and other countries but we have enough resources resources, material and human to interfere on a regular basis. >> host: patricia fernandez kelly, has the poverty and hopelessness in west baltimore for a couple of generations and where is

your solution but the overarching argument is how they understand it propagation is not just about material but that very special relationship between the american government and the racial population. i don't need to go into the whole historical account but it began occurring throughout the 20th century when the very large share of african-americans moved from the rural south to route midwestern and southeastern cities. the great black migration that peaked exactly with the

beginning of the industrialization and so that explains the unique quality of this journey. that blacks would incorporate into labor unions even as the industries were beginning to close down. but as part of the same process is a lowe's lovell's of hostility are without precedent that there are some people who really think that they are economist who make the argument with exploitation or difficulty that they have succeeded of

large number of them with the context with the kinds of opportunities and then have the facts to support this claim in terms of hostility perc without going to further detail of a high in the segregated neighborhood in which wilson himself calls concentrated poverty. it is different from having people lifted neighborhoods who have resources. per everybody is black or

poor the idea racer very different. those in the book of american apartheid. so high levels of segregation contributes to or if it flows a possible solution is errant in programs for the poor are notoriously unsuccessful because i am a liberal leave minded person. because you take this to the

extreme with employment tears of the program. so if you state that i would begin with those that contribute in the project has shown that are whispered with resources with end to meet with tremendous resistance of the part of people who'd do lunch people

in their area. panera have a great feeling to -- of beads that those the great nation that there will be new policy measures to create to lower levels that i think i can assure you that liberals can never have a change. of the kinds of people that i write about the book is organizing the party believe we have nearly politicians peeper that the issue

represents between 20 and 30 million reckons with the pope and with those aged he did people get chicory a long time to rates of a. i would have period serum will mooch o dash to lose touch and and think there were tidy and this is a there for her of the book and did touch with to flow who are in so they don't

represent the majority of african-americans but the very significant number of people that are disproportionately affected by a surveillance, excessive flows, the punishment and the overwhelming presence of this date in their life. >> host: who is back? bid mitt picked floyd from the mid 1990's he is now deceased by the way the was the man and says tref fallen to by contrast to use the back of a free in river in

represents chapter one and mr. wilson as actually been able to form a middle-class life. that for him much to land a job with the industrial firm by a this time he he ran he was now possible. he was its had them lynched a hand as they could not find gainful employment and they kept trying and trying. but he really was trying to bring his children back

together to be a father. the most dramatic film it did not drink or smoke or do drugs so i tell my students by those standards even though i did smoke and drink i never did drugs but the point i of making it you just use that moral yardstick for impoverished people he will not help you because he was a moral person and eventually did get a job as a security guard in order to make sure it would turn into a permanent job he got clearance from the police station so he enters them confidently knowing he did not have a record and right there he was ever arrested

for a warrant because he failed to appear before a court to explain why he was stocktaking child-support. so for those who try to dodge their responsibilities but many this a court date because he did not receive that notification but the bureaucratic structures were under the assumption he was failing to fulfill his parental obligation. said he was taken to jail as he was trying to get a job to allow him to pay child support payments and that

would have been a wonderful thing because that is what he wanted to do to give him a greater sense he was fulfilling his mandate responsibilities. the world is not perfect but for what is happening with the people at the ground level it is a burden institution to deal with horizontal problems i just plagiarize that. >> host: that hero's fight patricia hernandez kelly is the author. >> thank you. thank you very much.

>> the very nature of our economy has transformed for example, 25 years ago if you would work hard there would always be a job in america to allow you to achieve. maybe it did not make you rich or famous but it allows you to do the things we talk about to buy a home or raise your family and be better off but today people find al it doesn't keep up with the cost of living. not because our economy goes through a tough time to get better again but it is going under a deep ragged permanent structural changes globalization and israel to change the nature of our economy we are competing

with more nations than ever before for creativity and innovation to be more globally competitive than the government and the nature of work has changed as well if my parents came here in 2006 instead of a 1966 you very difficult to achieve as a barrel -- as a bartender and a maid because they will pay to a cost of living has become. there are jobs that paid more but they require a higher level of skill than ever before. the problems we have far to fold that increasing the we are led by people that don't understand we're through the most rapid the evil thing times have the equivalent of the industrial revolution

every three or five years. so what are the answers to the problem? of the single mom who is struggling to raise her two daughters of making $9 an hour or the students from this community that student loans of the small businesses in central florida that is struggling to stay ahead in and compete in the complicated environment to comply with rules and regulations. in the young lady named india who overcame extraordinary obstacles to achieve a truly extraordinary things. with those tens of millions of americans living in poverty and why those

programs don't work. because those programs often alleviate the pain but they don't care it but the real killer is a good paying job in too many programs do not address that.