don't make them as brief as possible. i appreciate your time. i'm going to start with i'm going to start a different track and come back to cyber because why not mix it up? actually this does have a relation. in your submitted testimony you mentioned the internet facilitated sexual exploitation of children as an evolving threat that your agency is faced with. ..

of the abuse of kids through the internet and selling of kids through the internet. the answer is yes. we have prosecuted the people behind an outfit i think called redbook that was in california. we locked up the proprietor of it winning it, that shut down the site. we may have taken civil action to shut down the site, so yes we have. >> follow-up. since the online facilitated exploitation of children is evolving prioritized threat, what is, help me understand your allocation to that area of investigation. how does the internet crimes against children program fund fit into that? >> we have task forces that focus on this, i forget the number but more than my number

of field offices so we have two in someplaces. we do this in every field office. we do operation i hope you heard of called "operation cross country." >> i have. great. >> it works with local partners to connect with the cyber stuff. a lot of ways we find people looking to exploit kids are through advertisements where we try to take down in a swoop bunch of these people, rescue the kids lock up i hate the word pimp, it sounds like some sort of '70s comedy thing. these are slavers. we lock up slavers to send a powerful message. i don't know the second part, i will have to get back to you on second part of question where the crimes against children fund fits. >> that "operation cross country" i think demand side a lot of work we've been trying to do even at a state level is changing the perception. we have been much more successful here federally. we are talking about young

children who have been brought into this slavery form of slavery trafficked and exploited. and what we have, we're turning our eyes to how do we, how do we beat demand? how are these people prosecuted? there is nothing more frustrated that knowing 17, 11-year-old girl who has been prostituted is one faces criminal penalty and a john walks free. it is infuriating to me. so your focus on demand side, both these portals that these criminals are using. i agree pimp almost has been romanticized in some areas which is pathetic. these john, slavers, need to be focus. you said name and shame. that is another area and place. some people who are buying these children are people that, at times are amongst us. switching, and i am, this is an

area we will continue to focus. we may continue with follow up with staff and your team. cyber, this is my last question blue cross in washington state had a very bad cyberattack last may but the company did not discover the breach until january of this year. upon advice of the fbi and cybersecurity firm the company waited until march 11th to provide notification of the attack. according to the information we received to date about 11 million customers nationwide and about six million in washington state including my constituents, may have been compromised. so i guess i want to hear why would the fbi recommend they wait to make that information public when we're talking about names, addresses, telephone numbers, social security numbers, in some cases medical history, banking data, so on, so forth? >> yeah, thank you for that. i don't know the facts enough to know whether it was january to march at our request but we do

sometimes ask companies hold off for a little while so we don't alert the bad guys. as soon as it becomes public whoever is doing it goes to ground. >> i would assume that is 24 hour, or two day, some of our previous briefings with cybersecurity division that is not a two month window because if it is we're not doing something right. >> that is why two-month window seems odd to me but more than 24 hours. often a search for ground computer where we can find the digital dust is from where the bad guys entered. in a huge company, sometimes that takes more than just 24 hour period. two months i don't fully understand. i will get smarter on that. >> i would love a follow-up because that greatly concerns me. i yield back. >> [inaudible] >> thank you for being here today and sitting here listening to these discussions all over the place.

i have almost 10-year-old and a six-year-old and the thought of one of my children going missing, you not being able to do anything about it because of, what we already discussed is terrifying. but i can say this, thank you for the work that you do for our country and i just appreciate the challenges that you have. i'm new to this subcommittee, so i too am not an expert in cybersecurity by any stretch. it is like going to school every day to learn more about what you do and challenges that you face. i was in huntsville, you touched on with mr. aderholt about birmingham you mentioned huntsville when i wasn't here, but it was great to be at the new tdac facility and of course they're like delivering furniture. it was not even completed. there are no body there is yet and even some of the equipment

yet it was fascinating for me to learn about what they're doing. this is the terrorist explosives device analytical center. also had a chance to stop by the hazard does devices school which was great as well where they train local law enforcement. so i guess what i wanted to talk to you about some of the things that they mentioned as a challenge was personnel recruitment, because just nationally it is difficult to find individuals that have the expertise to be able to do this type of analysis on ieds and just wanted to talk about your budget request and where you see any short falls in personnel for this new facility. and, you know what, how we can make this vital center a reality. >> thank you so much for that and i too visited there within

the last eight weeks. i forget when i was there. i could smell the fresh paint. very exciting. because it will make a big difference. it will save lives. that place will literally save lives. the answer is, i think we're doing okay in terms of recruiting and hiring back. we were down, many, many vacancy slots in the fbi as a result of sequestration. we hired 2400 people last year. i'm trying to hire 3,000 this year my budget request this year is simply to sustain that, to hire the folks to keep them on the job. i don't think i will have a problem staffing tdac. i will transfer people. i went down and met with our staff at quantico, i said, wait until you visit huntsville. you think i don't want to be transferred to huntsville. wait until i try to get you out of huntsville in two years. it sounds like a corny thing to

say, i'm lucky enough fbi has justifiably very strong identity in american life. people want to work for the fbi and do kind of work we want in huntsville. people are banging down the door. i advertise for special agents and i get 20,000 applications in two weeks. so i think we'll be okay there. >> that is great to hear. the hazard does devices school, i forget what they call, staging areas. >> the villages. >> the villages. >> we blow stuff up in the village. >> they're want to expand that. it is an expensive, expensive school to operate because of what they're doing but in the equipment that they use. so if you talk about that a little bit. >> there is such a demand for that. that is, as you said, we, the fbi train all state and local bomb techs in the united states. there are thousands of bomb techs in the united states.

they have been certified and trained at hazardous device school. to be trained effectively you have to train on buildings that have real feeling. that is what the villages are. there is a church and supermarket. >> they also put the church next to the liquor store. >> they just showed me the church. they didn't show the liquor store. >> they tried to say it was like alabama. i wasn't going to accept that. [laughter]. okay. better. >> thanks for the support of this committee and on the senate side, senator shelby's committee. we've gotten funding. i forget the number, but to build number of additional villages which will help us. how many additional villages? six additional villages. people shouldn't think that is whole new town. that is new cluster of buildings that will able to meet demand. military downsizing is shrinking its commitment to the hazard does devices school. we're looking for support from

congress to make sure we staff up net stay the same. i think we'll be okay there. that was verdict i got when i was there. >> thank you for the important work that you do and everybody that is with you on your team. we appreciate your commitment to our country and our safety. thank you. >> thank you miss robe by i wanted if i could to follow up on the one of the questions that chairman rogers brought up about foreign fighters. director comey we have seen estimates 20,000 traveled from 90 different countries to fight in syria. we heard reports that 150 americans traveled to syria and iraq to fight with isis and other terrorist groups. could you talk to the committee and just recognize unclassified setting about your ability to able to identify keep track of these folks and americans that may be traveling over there? and what can this subcommittee do to help you deal with that threat. >> thank you mr. chairman. it's a big feature of our work

and it is enormously challenging. the number of 150 is the approximate number of americans who have traveled to syria in connection with the conflict. some have gone for humanitarian reasons. some have gone to associate with isil. some have gone to associate with al nusra front or other groups. one of the challenges even those that we identify, to understand what are they doing there. not everyone that has gone there went to be terrorist but we treat them like they are and cover them like a blanket until they come back and we understand it. our challenge is trying to make sure with our partners in the intelligence community and our foreign partners we have tripwires in place to spot americans who might be, not just going towards that area of the world but heading towards syria. this is hard because there are thousand and thousands of americans every day that fly towards, right mediterranean fly towards turkey, for all manner of good reasons.

we need help of our partners in the intelligence community, our foreign partners might be transiting turkey and the turks have been a big help to us there and that relationship has gotten increasingly good. here at home the challenge to come back to state and local law enforcement, i'm not highly confident is 150 of 175, that i'm only missing 25 or 150 of 300. i just don't know because again it is so difficult in wonderful free country like ours to know who might be traveling with that purpose. that where it into research we do online to spot them and our relationship with state and local law enforcement. >> we benefit having judge carter, chairman of homeland security, talk with us judge carter, how much is tsa and homeland security doing? making sure they work with you to identify and flag with these folks. >> we have a great partner. >> how much recommendations would you make to the chairman to make sure what homeland is doing?

>> i think we're doing great with cpp here. they're a great partner. they're on our national joint terrorism task force because we all recognize that they have eyes at the border, outbound and inbound. and so we are lashed up with them very, very closely. one of the lessons of the boston marathon bombing we needed to make sure we were even more effective in working with them. tsa has a great relationship. key partner on the traveler bit turns out to be cbp. i don't have a recommendation for improvement on that right now. >> my understanding judge, and director, that the united states doesn't have the ability to track visas. if they overstay their visa, we're not apparently doing a good job judge correct me if i'm wrong, tracking these guys once they are in the country. >> we don't have a exit policy right now. if they overstay a visa they know they can know they're over staying but they don't know if they have left or not. that is a real problem. >> that's why i was asking the

question director. >> that is not really where he is coming from. working together, i think there is a good working relationship between the agencies and the fbi and others. our guys are doing a pretty decent job on law enforcement side of it. we need exit policy, but it will start counting billions of dollars when we start doing it. that is one of the problems we've got in the particular environment we're living in. >> but you can spot them if they leave the country, flagging visa, if you they think might be a problem leave the country enter the count i homeland security is able to share information. >> we don't have exit policy we don't know. >> if we have interest in someone we share that with cbp. >> track individuals. >> the flag goes up. yeah. >> tracking individuals we do that every day. but just the average joe that flies over here on a plane for vacation if he stays -- >> or overstays. >> we don't know he didn't

leave. he could have left. we don't necessarily know whether he left or didn't leave. >> yeah. we have, i know also the patriot act coming up for renewal here at the end of may it will expire. i wanted, because our constituents rightly as mr. fattah, all of us have interest in protecting privacy of law-abiding americans as i know you do as well, remembering benjamin franklin's admonition those that will trade a little liberty for a little safety will wind up with neither. probably lived in your district in the past. that is important lesson. could you talk to us, also americans watching today the protection the patriot act builds into the private sir, making sure privacy of law-abiding americans is protected and thresholds you've got to cross in order to get a court order or access to people's phone records or their conversations in that suitcase

we have with us? >> yep, thank you mr. chairman. yeah i -- >> how important the patriot act is to you. >> i tell a lot of folks when i talk about this in public americans should be skeptical of government power. the country built by people who were. i tell my british friends because of you people we built it the way we built it to set interests against interest. you can't trust people in power. i'm an honest person. you can not trust me. >> texans can relate to that. >> you should know how was the design of the founders is alive in my life. patriot act is a great example. if we want to get someone's business records using our authority under section 215 we have to go to a federal judge to get that authority. we have to make a regular report to congress how we're using section 215. we discuss it in oversight hearings repeatedly. executive branch, excuse me, legislative, judicial, executive are working together. then my work on 215 and all of our patriot act authorities is

audited by an inspector general on a regular basis to reports to congress. that's great. that's burdensome. that's is the way it should be. there are judges, there are oversight in every piece of the work we do. the reason that the patriot act authorities matter so much, especially two i will mention. section 215 allows in our national security investigations to go to judges to get authority to get documents or tangible things or records. if that expires and we lose that authority, we will have to gap in our ability to respond to spies and terrorists that i can not fill with grand jury subpoenas or some other manner of process. that is very, very worrisome. that is a part of the patriot act we don't talk about very much. the second i mention is roving wiretaps. in criminal cases if a drug dealer is swapping phones as they frequently do, judge can issue an order allows to follow the person so we don't lose him when he switches phones. patriot act gave us that authority when fighting spies and terrorists. i think people would want us to

have the same authority in spy and terrorism cases that we have in criminal cases but again it involves the authority of a judge. we have to make a showing to the judge for probable cause. written affidavits and overseen by the courts. so i think those are sensible things. the challenges took me two minutes to explain it. often people nod say it is terrible what the patriot act has done. i hope folks don't do that. >> important to remember to people mr. snowden is no hero. talk in open setting why people should not think of that what he did and him as a hero. >> i don't want to say too much because i hope mr. snowden will realize the greatest country in the world has the fullest and freest criminal justice system in the world and avail himself of rights and opportunities able to defend himself in our criminal justice system if he will leave russia to come back here. i want him to get a fair trial. i don't want to dump on him too much. i would say want to describe

someone like that as hero take the corpus of his work to hug whole thing. >> he carried out how many laptops? >> a lot and a lot of records. you need to look at damage to our ability to track terrorists, to attack spice. the whole corpus of work has to be looked at. >> mr. tom. >> thank you mr. chairman. your badget inside of a bill. the bill has a number one on it but the doj portion thereof you're seeking $8 billion. we have another part of this budget that's been growing exponentially, it grew from one billion to seven billion. it is federal prison budget. and it is a big concern, because the federal prison system is gobbling up this budget, that

this commit me has discretion over. and, there is a sense that the country incarcerates people that don't need to be incarcerated. in fact we incarcerate more people than any other country in the world. so we set up a commission that's got two former members leading it j.c. watts out of oklahoma and alan moynihan of west virginia. we put experts on it, including head of corrections from the state of pennsylvania which think is a very wise choice. they're looking at what it is we might be doing what we call justice reinvestment. what can we do to move away from things that are not working. this overemphasize on -- overemphasis on incarceration and move to some other direction. there are some states, texas has been at the very forefront actually looking at some very aggressive activities

particularly in terms of the juvenile system not incarcerating some young people. i would be very interested in your view about who the country you know, somebody said here, i can't remember who people who have done something we don't like, we shouldn't put in jail. the people we fear and could do us harm we should put in jail. i would appreciate as lead law enforcement official in the country what your view about this problem and what we should do about it? >> thank you mr. fattah. something i spent a lot of my life thinking about and i'm not sure i'm expert enough to being useful to you but here is my take on it. i think we can be smarter how we incarcerate and use aspects of the criminal justice system. i think we could be a whole lot better preparing people to reenter society. think that is something as a country have done a very poor job of. i also want to make sure if i'm involved in effort like that, that i'm thoughtful about what

connection, if any is there between incarceration rate the fact that we have historic low levels of crime. i don't want to do anything i don't want to do anything we say 20 years from now jeez, we really got that wrong because we achieved level of reduction. a lot of people smarter than i should be thoughtful about that. i want to be data driven. who are the people in jail, in federal prison. why are they there and risks associated with them. the reason i say that, they talk about low level non-violent drug offenders in federal prison. i have never put anyone there by that description. and i can't find a whole lot of federal prosecutors say i prosecute ad low level non-violent drug offender. there may be a lot of folks like that but i want to make sure the data is scrubbed. other than that i'm agnostic. i'm not idealogical person. i want to be effective. >> this is almost equal part of our budget what your request is

now. at one point it was one billion. the number of inmates actually has, as crime rate nationwide, number of inmates going down, crime rate is going down. why that is not happening at state level though, not necessarily where we are. and, but, let me move on to different subject. but the committee would be interested in your thoughts as we go through this process. and as recommendations from the group comes back, i'm sure the chairman would be interested. sandy hook took place a little while ago but it was a tragedy. and there are every year, not just loss of police officers, there are literally, i mean thousands and thousands of americans just being shot and killed. and the access to firearms, which the supreme court has said people have constitutional right to, and that's the law of our land, as law enforcement

official how do you you know, and we todd jones is now leaving as one of your sister agencies what is your thought about what we should be doing and thinking about as a nation vis-a-vis the question of firearms? >> another big, hard question. probably all of, all aspects of that are beyond my expertise and my authority except for one piece. i've spent a lot of my life as a prosecutor trying to make sure that criminals were deathly afraid of getting caught with a gun. if a criminal is caught obviously committing a crime with a gun or just possessing it, there are severe, severe consequences. i long believed most homicides are happenstance homicides. what would otherwise be a fistfight or rock fight becomes a shootout because the gun is article of clothing. there in the waistband. fellow has it there drug dealer has it there.

if we make criminals criminals are very good at rational calculation, fear that as article of clothing we'll have more fistfights, rob fights, maybe stabbings and less shootings. we should drive in the criminal mind, should be afraid. think more about your gun than about your socks and shoes when you get dressed to deal drugs and hang out on street corner. i think that is very, very effective. i'm a big support supporter of the fbi's work of maniacal enforcement. drug dealer possession, felon possession crimes like that because there is no excuse for criminal to have one. none. >> one last question mr. chairman. there is a lot of debate on the hill about prosecution of people you've locked up as terrorists in article three courts. as best as i can tell there have been no incidents or no issues. these prosecutions proceeded through normal course and, justice has been served.

is that your sense of this? is there, i mean because we have this debate, administration wants to close guantanamo and get out of the business of incarcerating people without a trial, just incarcerating without having any due process bass they think it is a problem for our country internationally. is there any concern you have about the ability of our court systems to handle these cases? >> distinguishing, i know, as mr. fattah would between foreign nationals captured on battlefield overseas versus an american citizen. >> as i understand your question about the effectiveness of the criminal justice system in my experience. >> i'm not trying to get you in the middle of this, make sure, whether or not there should be any concern from our standpoint as a country that our court system is capable of prosecuting article iii. >> that doesn't mean it ends the policy conversation is one that the fbi shouldn't be involved in but my experience our courts

are very, very good offering people fair trial and incapacitating them for rest of their lives in a safe way. >> thank you. >> expert, expertly done. let chair recognize mr. palazzo. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> mr. honda. >> thank you mr. chairman. let me say i appreciate your flexibility and the judge's flexibility too. i just have a real quick question. in 2016 my area will be hosting the super bowl and in the past three, four years probably we've been tracking the super bowl activities in terms of human trafficking. in that light you have, arena of transnational organized crime which addresses trafficking of women and children. internationally. you also have a discussion on

child sex slavery instead of prostitution i say child sex slavery because prostitution has another -- is there a staff we can collaborate with and speak with to anticipate 2016? we're already working on cyber systems with our local entities in terms of light rail high-speed rail and those kinds of activities and airports? it would be great if we can work with some of your staff to check and double-check in kind of things that we're doing to see if there is, if we can collaborate. >> i'm sure that we can, mr. honda. this is something we have a lot of expertise and practice in, all aspects of the threat around a soup other bowl but we can

equip you with that. we do a lot of work around super bowl events. i would tell people come to the super bowl for all kinds of reasons. if you're trying to pick up kids or engage in prostitution involving children we'll be there looking to lock you up. we'll get you what you need on that. >> we would like to look at public education and engaging the other agencies to be aware and trained on visual wall kinds of surveillance. would be greatly appreciated. thank you, mr. chairman. >> judge carter. >> thank you mr. chairman. let's have a little judge prosecutor question. we're telling our industry, okay the cyber attacks are real they're coming. home depot got attacked. sony got attacked. heard about blue cross getting

at attacked. you have to build your fort. we're. part of our plan for cybersecurity is fell tell industry build a fort, protect yourself. be prepared. we're helping you assisting you, be prepared. now, whether this attack is a criminal act or a an act of war is an interesting debate to have i will ask everybody in the cyber field, what's your opinion when a cyberattack escalates above a criminal activity and becomes an attack, an act of war? most people say it is policy decision. i understand that is a good copout. but the discussion it is interesting discussion but there is even a more interesting thing. what you will have ultimately. we're going back to the middle ages. building a bunch of little forts around our industry. some of these forts will be very powerful. i would bet the fort around microsoft will be extremely

powerful. the fort around apple will be extremely powerful. not only powerful in defending themselves from an attack outside, but they will obviously have the ability to counterattack. when they counterattack they can start an international incident. they can start we don't know what -- that's a question we to ponder quite honestly we are as a government promoting them to build that fort. that for the fort is nothing more than building your own castle and protect your castle. there are some always able to be in the defensive posture, but those are the offensive capability may go offensive. and from a criminal justice system we have to decide has that person gone too far? just like the security guard that protects, uses his gun in protection of the bank and so forth. some of it will be self-defense. maybe some of it is not.

we have to make that determination. we may have to make that determination in the cyber world at some time in the future, if a private entity, protecting its own property, decides to counterattack in a cyberattack which we, we certainly have the ability to do, at least we presume we do as a government. then we, then you have to presume some of these big monster tech industry have the ability to counterattack. >> you can watch the rest of this hearing on our website. grow to c-span.org. we're going to leave it here so we can bring you a live hearing on administration's strategy to combat isis. general john allen special presidential envoy for global coalition to counter isis and several defense department officials are testifying through the house foreign affairs committee. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations].

[inaudible conversations]. [inaudible conversations]. >> this hearing will come to order. this morning the committee

continues its examination of the threat that's posed to the middle east and to the united states by isis. and one of the things we're trying to do here is to look at the administration's strategy to destroy this brutal terrorist organization and assess the proposed authorization of military force to be, to be used. they have sent an authorization to us. the goal of isis i think is pretty clear. it is to wreck everything and every person in its path to establish a caliphate and then fight to expand that caliphate. isis affiliates are growing in power and presence throughout the region. in the last few weeks we have seen attacks in yemen. we've seen attacks in tunisia and libya. what is less clear is the administration's approach and its determination to tackle this threat. many of you know that for some

time some of us on this committee have been pushing the idea of hitting isis from the air. we we went through many months of isis going town by town in syria and then in iraq, without the use of us air power against isis. as a consequence isis ended up taking many major cities across the region. ended up the taking the central bank of mosul. if we count the number of sorties to date there is 2959 that have been flown. if you compare that to the 116,000 airstrikes during the first gulf war when iraq moved 40 some divisions into, into kuwait, you get an idea of the difference in magnitude between the way this, this has been conducted, versus the very real deterrents that we utilized in the past. we also have the fact that, at least among the canadian forces,

their spotters are forward-deployed so they can hit their targets when they call those targets in. in the u.s., with u.s. forces our forces are not forward-deployed. so, when you're calling in an airstrike and not forward-deployeded to do it, there is some question about how effective that's going to be. most americans would be puzzled to learn about a lot of this and i think the piecemeal attacks that the obama administration has been systematically using here has been squandering our air power advantage, at least one observer tells us that is the case. adding to the problem the regional forces on the ground, these airstrikes are supposed to be supporting, are badly undersupplied. after seven months of fighting, this committee is still receiving troubling reports from the kurdish peshmerga. and visits from the kurdish representatives about how

outgunned their men and women are on the front line. now 30% of their battalions a female fighting against isis, fighting with small arms. they have yet to receive artillery and long-range mortars and anti-take weaponry, that they have repeatedly asked for. this morning ranking member engle and i are reintroducing legislation to allow u.s. arms to be sent directly to the kurds. we're strung out on a 500 plus mile front against isis. these brave fighters these women, these men in these battalions need better equipment to defeat isis. we can't allow iran with its influence over baghdad to continue to prevent that type of weaponry coming from the center. so we should provide it. we should sell it to them directly. the sunni tribal fighters, who will be central to this fight are yet to trust baghdad as you

know. strong local police and provisional national guard forces are desperately needed to protect sunnies in anbar province and elsewhere. into the void on the ground in iraq have stepped iranian-backed shiite fighters. the leading force behind the recent tikrit offensive. senior u.s. officials put this development in positive terms. the reports indicate that u.s. intelligence and air power will now support this iranian-backed mission. "the washington post" wisely cautioned in an editorial this week, quote, the growing power of the militias with their brutal tactics secretaryian ideology and allegiance to iran's most militant faction has become as large an impediment to the goal of stablizing iraq as isis. shiite militias taking on isis may serve the immediate interests of killing jihadis but it is heart to see how

empowering iran's proxies in the short, medium, long-term interest of an inclusive iraq or a stable middle east. the fear that many of us have is that sunni iraqis, who have been tortured by isis will get the same brutal treatment by their shiite militia liberators. and that would fuel endless conflict. to see how this is viewed in the region with respect to iran being on the march, the other day the iranians boasted that they have taken four arab capitals. well, in taking yemen you've set off a situation now where the saudi, the saudis and others are reacting. a 10-nation coalition is reacting. the saudis are making preparations to hit that iranian proxy on the ground. we know that quds forces and other iranian agents have helped organize and topple that

government. and now that the iranian regime is crowing about it other countries in the region are taking action. and this is complicating the circumstances here. in other words iran is very much complicating the ability in the region to get some stability. political reconciliation in baghdad must be central to u.s. policy. the committee will be interested to learn what the administration is doing to press prime minister abadi to ensure he doesn't become former prime minister maliki, a disasterous sectarian. we'll hear today our u.s. strategy is focused on iraq first. that's what we'll be told but until the meltdown of syria, what general petraeus termed a geopolitical chernobyl until that meltdown is capped, it will continue to spew radioactive instability and extremist ideology over the entire region.

last fall congress voted to authorize training and equiping the syrian opposition forces but to our great frustration that is still not up and running. when pressed on the path forward in syria, most administration officials seem to suggest we can figure it out later. our slow action is creating a crisis of confidence among our allies. our witnesses are here to explain the president's strategy and when the committee returns in april we plan to hear more from the secretary of state and defense about the president's aumf request. i will now turn to the ranking member for his opening statement >> mr. chairman, thank you for calling this important hearing. general allen, general fantini general olson welcome. we are delighted that we have such an, a distinguished array of generals to really speak with us this morning. thank you for appearing here

today and thank you for your tireless service to our country. the main purpose of this hearing is to get an update on the progress of the anti-isis coalition and the significant challenges that remain but we miss also address the elephant in the room in my opinion, the need for a new authorization for the use of military force or aumf. as i've said again and again this committee and this congress have an important role to play in our foreign policy. i believe that's the case with our negotiations over iran's nuclear program and the same must hold true when it comes to our effort against isis. congress needs to play its part. and i will resist any attempt to marginalize congress fulfilling its constitutional role. by passing the new aumf our servicemembers, the brave men and women in uniform risking their lives against this enemy would feel the full support of congress. our coalition partners, would

see that the american government is united in our commitment to degrade and destroy this enemy. congress would reassert the important role we have empowered to play by the constitution. and we as lawmakers would show that congress doesn't slenk away from the tough decisions because if we do, we're sending a message that congress may put itself on the sidelines the next time a crisis erupts and time after that, the time after that. that is simply unacceptable. the language sent to us by the president with the aumf isn't perfect but i believe it's a good start. so let's work together to craft a bipartisan aumf. let's taylor it to the needs of our troops in this mission. everything we're doing today is taking place under the shadow of this unfinished business. i know we're talking about iran these past days as an impending agreement, the deadline for one is rapidly approaching, and talk

about an aumf seems to have faded in the background but i really believe that's something that can fade in the background. that is something we have to tackle. this is the committee to do so. and we will do some. generals, we look to you for leadership. clearly explaining our strategy to degrade and defeat isis to this committee. and to the american people. in my view, the international coalition is made some real progress conducting military operations and advising our partners on the ground, working to alleviate the humanitarian crisis cutting off funding sources for isis, taking steps to stem the flow of foreign fighters, and pushing back against toxic message of isis propaganda. this strategy is making a real difference. isis losing ground. much of its top leadership has been taken out. obviously we still have much more to do. thanks to our training, iraqi security forces are improving so

they can better deal with the isis threat. regional partners are playing a bigger and bigger role and the coalition is holding steady but we're still facing a lot of challenges and i would like to touch on some of those today. first of all i'm concerned about iran's growing foothold in iraq. the iran-guided operation in tikrit has faltered but you shia militants, including some fighters trained by iran's quds force are playing a more influential role in iraq. what are their intentions and how do our own plans take these elements into account? secondly i'm struggling to he associate path forward in syria. i think you know that view our efforts to aid the opposition as too little too late and far too slow. two and three years ago i was yelling we should be aiding and abetting and providing weapons to the free syrian army. what's happened now three years later, these forces are barely hanging on. they have been focused on

fighting assad regime. that would be hard enough, especially with inadequate weapons and training. but they also have to face off against isis, and other battle hardened groups like al nusra front. they need more training and equipment as quickly as we get it to them. lastly, what more can we do to support the syrian people? more than 200,000 syrians have already perished in this war. nearly 10 million have been driven from their homes. this crisis is spilled overboarders into turkey, iraq, jordan and lebanon. this is a humanitarian catastrophe as assad has blood on his hands and the syrian people desperately need relief. gentlemen, i look forward to covering these issues with you. i thank you again for your courageous service. i say again it is past time for congress to give you the support you need for this vital mission. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. engel. this morning we're pleased to be joined by senior representatives from the department of state and

defense. general john allen is the special presidential envoy for the global coalition to counter isil. he was appointed on september 16th, 2014, by president obama. general allen is a retired u.s. marine four-star general former commander of coalition and u.s. forces in afghanistan from 2011 to 2013. during his combat tour in iraq he played a critical role in awaken movement in al-anbar province. brigadier general michael fantini is the middle east principle director for the office of assistant secretary of defense tore international security affairs. previously he served as commander of kandahar airfield. brigadier general olson is with us. he is the deputy director for middle east. joined staffs strategic plans and policy at department of defense and previously he served as the deputy commander for marine forces central command. brigadier general olson as i understand, you will not be

giving oral testimony but will be available to answer members questions. we thank you for that sir. without objection, the witnesses full prepared statements will be made part of the record. members will have five calendar days to submit any statements or questions of you or any extraneous materials. so we would ask you would summarize your remarks. we'll begin with general allen. >> esteemed members of the committee, thank you for providing me this opportunity to update you on the progress of the global coalition to counter isil. more broadly though let me thank you sincerely, the members of this committee, for the tremendous support that you have been giving our men and women in uniform and also our diplomats within the foreign service at far-flung posts and stations around the world who have served our country so well. we're deeply grateful for the support of this committee in that regard. i return to washington this past

week, after a 10-day visit to coalition capitals where i met with partners in rome and ankara baghdad and berlin and finally in brussels where i briefed the members of the european union and the north atlantic council. my engagements in each of these stops reinforced my confidence in the coalition's strategy to counter isil across the informational, physical and the financial spheres which it operates n the territory isil has lost in the increasing financial strain on the organization and then the diminished morale and increasing desertions of its fights we're clearly degrading its capabilities. allure of the so-called caliphate is under direct assault. to date the coalition has conducted nearly 3,000 airstrikes. i believe in fact went over that number last night against isil territories. more than 1600 of them in iraq and nearly 1300 in syria. we've taken out isil fighters,

many of its commanders, infrastructure, support to its terror infrastructure and facilities including 20 training camps and over 200 oil and gas facilities. since the coalition campaign began, isil has lost more than a quarter of the populated territories it has held in iraq. because we lack the same kind of partners on the ground in syria the situation there is more challenging and complex. still we're working closely with regional partners to establish sites for training and equiping vetted moderate syrian opposition elements in order to train approximately 5000 troops per year over the next three years. syrian opposition groups to counter isil continue to make strategic gains. expanding west and east from kobani and retaking territory from isil. coalition airstrikes against isil in syrian territory continue to degrade isil's sanctuary and limit its freedom of movement and military capabilities as well as its capacity to resupply its efforts

in iraq. in iraq, coalition air power supported many iraqi security force led operations. we're actively supporting the training of iraqi forces at four training camps where nine iraqi army and three peshmerga brigades are being or will be trained and equipped. coalition is planning to build on this initial success as well as to prepare to meet a set of critical challenges in the months ahead. as isil is defeated and in the population centers and military forces must move on to their objectives there will be immediate need for policing and public security efforts to set conditions for essential services and delivery. populations that fled the fighting will need shelter and assistance and security until they can return home. in many cases facilities have been destroyed or made insecure by improvised explosive devices. providers need to rapidly assess and respond with basic medical care, water, electricity and

other municipal services. as a you successful stabilization effort begins with fair treatment during military operations we applaud iraqi leaders including grand ayatollah al-sistani who pub particularly called for protection of civilians and warned against acts recrimination and abuse. if i might digress read his 20 point code of conduct he issued last month with regard to fighters in the feel to liberate iraq. it also means protecting schools and hospitals and water treatment facilities, securing antiquities and libraries. these measures began process reunifying iraq and building trust between liberated communities and government of iraq. these critical stabilization efforts were the center of my consultations last week in baghdad and on the first day of the meetings we heard from the iraqis about their need to plan for idp return, support ied removal and provide services and expertise to assist with

stabilization efforts. on the second day a team of experts and coalition members met with their iraqi counterparts and discussed iraqi plans in greater detail. throughout my meetings i emphasized that iraq's stabilization efforts will be the most important signal of the intentions of the abadi government to fulfill its goal rebuilding iraq for all iraqis. we know from experience that these kinds of essential services are delivered more effectively and efficiently when they're sequenced and planned early on with military operations an civilian cooperation. we also know this. stabilization operations require significant resources. we as a coalition will work together to assist and support iraq as we are able to but we do not have the resources to support all of iraq's needs, nor can money alone whether from the iraqi budget or from the trust fund or from any number of partners achieve the full effectiveness without appropriate prioritization, planning and sequencing. from baghdad we traveled to

berlin. for the first meeting of the coalition stabilization working group. there under the leadership of german and emirati governments we convened more than a dozen coalition partners to identify specific areas where the coalition can support the iraqis and establish a shared understanding what we hope to achieve. the working group on stabilization is just one of five coalition working groups coordinating coalition activities on specific lines of effort including military support, counter finance counter messaging and efforts to stem the flow of foreign fighters. among coalition members about disrupting the flow of foreign fighters it is urgent concern and rightly some partners are working together to make it more difficult for their citizens to fight in syria and iraq through criminal justice reform, enhanced border control and better intelligence sharing. 18 coalition partners fasted new foreign terrorist fighter legislation over the last six months in order to stem the flow of fighters traveling to the region. more action is being

contemplated. in fact just this beak week the italian government broke up ring of smugglers of foreign fighters operating between italy and albania. the operation flowed from use of information resulting from our coalition actions and prosecution of those individuals will flow from legislation as a result of our coalition actions. we must continue to improve how we harmonize custom and border processes track actually fighters in route to the battle and share intelligence withers in. this with partners. this is vital related challenge to isil's access to financial support. the coalition made gains synchronizing practices to isil access to banks regionally and global. this includes stemming fly of private donations and limiting isil's financial options restricting limits of oil revenues. we have restricted ieses's axe

test s. es it to local financial networks. that we must closely examine any financial ties between core isil and terrorists linked to isil throughout the region. we're also beginning to better prepare ourselves for isil's violent messaging. last month the president announced creation of a new joint operations online center with the u.a.e. where we will colap rate with regional partners to take on isil in the online information space. efforts likes these to counter violent messaging to take on isil's recruitment capabilities, efforts to generate revenues will endure long after the defeat of isil. it will supports long term u.s. counterterrorism goals. the united states and coalition partners are also supporting the united nations efforts to provide food aid and supply critical assistance to protect vulnerable women and children and men in an attempt to limit the suffering caused by isil's excesses and advances. ultimately the best way to

protect vulnerable communities from isil's barbaric campaign of death and terror is to degrade and defeat the organization militarily and idealogically over the course of several years of the president has outline ad framework for authorities he believes will be necessary to pursue this campaign with his formal request to the congress for authorization of use of military force against isil. aumf request foresees using our unique capabilities in support of partners on the ground instead of through long-term, large-scale deployment of u.s. forces. at the same time the president has asked for flexibility to fight an isil adaptable enemy, one that hopes to expand its reach and capabilities well beyond the borders of iraq and syria. as the president has said, the world needs to know we are united in the effort against isil. we're strongest as a nation when the administration and the congress work together on issues as serious as the use of military force and a new aumf, will prove that we stand united against this threat. a powerful message of support for our leadership with our

allies and our coalition and a powerful message of defeat for isil. taking the fight to isil also requires our close coordination with this committee and with the congress so that we can constantly evaluate our tactics and strategy, that we are resourcing them appropriately. this hearing presents and important opportunity to continue that very important dialogue with the congress in coordination and consultation. i want to thank you thank you mr. chairman, for calling this hearing and i look forward to taking your questions. >> general allen, thank you very much for your testimony. we now go to general fantini. . .

under the denying safe haven to deny isil safe haven the coalition has conducted approximately 3000 airstrikes including more than 1600 in iraq since august 8, 2014. additionally, over 1200 strikes have occurred in syria since december 23, 2014. we have taken out isil fighters commanders and more than 1000 vehicles and tanks, over 200 oil and gas facilities, the infrastructure that funds this care as well over 20 training camps and more than 2000 fighting position, checkpoints

buildings in both iraq and syria. as a result of this effort the coalition has arrested a isil moment him, to greater its ability to mass and maneuver forces, and pressured or a limited its leadership cells and disrupt its command and control and supply lines. over all we put isil on the defensive in iraq. under building partnership capacity, countering isil will not be possible without our local partners in the lead. to build partnership capacity in iraq the u.s. and coalition partners are supporting the government of iraq and its efforts to strengthen and reconstitute the iraqi security forces by assisting with training equipping and devising the iraqi security forces. this includes kurdish fighters as well as sunni tribes. last summer we stood up and advise and assist team and earlier this year we began training iraq's security and kurdish forces at four sites across iraq. i was able to visit a site

recently and saw firsthand a partnership that we've undertaken with our iraq forces. with the help of congress the iraq train train and equip on one able to train and equip the 12 brigades to include three peshmerga brigades and nine iraqi brigade that was mentioned by general allen as well as tribal and sunni forces. under the syria train and equip come in addition to our efforts in iraq we are working with our coalition partners to build the capabilities of the moderate syrian opposition. with training of the first class we are seeing next month in april the goal is to train bed soon recruits to defend the syrian people, stabilize area under opposition control and power train is going offensive against isil and promote the conditions for a negotiated settlement to end the conflict in syria. our partners in the region include saudi arabia, turkey qatar and others have offered strong support to host and

quickly stand up the program. u.s. forces in the region strengthen our partners ability to fight terrorism locally. it will be with the iraqi security forces as well as syrian fighters who will serve to secure the gains against isil and conflict and lasting defeat. we look forward to working closely with you and we will continue to keep you and your colleagues informed. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. and begin first general allen from a purely military point of view is the current military strategy -- is the current military strategy to defeat isil deficient in anyway? >> well obviously as the search unfolds we know it's a long-term strategy. we will keep a very close i on the progress. we will evaluate the resources against our expectations. again as the strategy unfolds.

as i watched the pieces of this come together with respect to the training with respect to our enabling them with respect to our firepower and are far support provided to the iraqi security forces it seems to be unfolding in a manner which i think will be successful. and iraq. so we'll keep a close eye on this and odyssey we will remain in close consultation with the congress on the issue of resources. >> -- congress. >> anti-semitism in europe and the ambassador who is former assistant secretary of defense for european and nato policy testified. is also the president of the world jewish congress and he said there were thousands of european muslims that of light touch the fight and there's a real fear they could return renewed bloodshed within. some have returned and we've seen the consequences. he referred to increase attacks on jews throughout europe.

to what extent is it ministry examining the threat of returning muslim extremists from the dreaded a threat not just to europe but also the united states? i noticed in your testimony you talked about how the coalition members are trying to disrupt the flow of foreign fighters. you made a very cursory reference to some of the things. i know you can it spent upon it, some you mentioned 18 coalition partners passed new legislation and so on. but this is a rearguard the likes of which i think we've never seen before. your thoughts and what we can do do. >> you put your finger on one of the greatest threats ultimately of isil as it exists today. it is a threat to iraq. it is a threat and see to it is a threat in the region that the return of foreign fighters is a direct threat to homeland. not just our homeland by the homelands of our partners acquiescing tragically in such places as ottawa and in sydney and in paris copenhagen and brussels. and other places.

so this come you're correct this is a real issue for us. that's why there is, in fact a working group with an entire line of effort within the u.s. strategy as well to stem the flow of foreign fighters. begins by dealing with issues at home where we have encouraged through best practices and consultation and exchange of information where nations will work with at risk populations at home with clerics and teachers, with family members, with tribal leaders in those populations and our coalition partners homes. >> is there a recognition among our partners that youth are at heightened risk? >> absolutely. this is of course an issue the anti-semitism that is risen from this, that the jewish population is at risk. but more broadly than just the jewish population is the security of this country. so there fixated on this. >> if i could many of us have noted with a great deal of this

baby president earlier dismissal of isis as a gdt in comedy equivalent of, we've seen this happen on a number of fronts. i help it hold a series of fronts in boko haram and try desperately to get it administration the club local from a foreign terrorist administration. went twice tonight year. a firebombing was occurring at turgid it is as clear as those on my face a boko haram had a global, but a global but more of a regional terrorist mindset here and we seem to have not adequately the legality of the threat and a just, as part of this coalition of the 60 come is nigeria a part of that? again to my dismay and shock to many others, all of a sudden we walked away last december from helping the nigerian government combat these threats they're facing with training with vetted individual to the you

might speak to that and quickly because i'm almost out of time general dempsey have pointed out that the security of iraqi forces and iranian support i should say is a positive thing in military terms. then said we've got to think what happens when the drums of isil stop beating and what about this ma the idea we need an inclusive government in iraq? that seems to me to be very far away dream. not likely to happen. but if you could speak to boko haram especially. >> boko haram is obvious a great concern. it's put its hands in the air to be what they call distant province of the caliphate and the ultimate establish a relationship. i certainly commend your having held hearings on this issue because it is a very serious issue. nigeria is not a member of the coalition but i am traveling to nations around the world and trying to explain the nature of isil and the nature of this

threat which is through franchises, local franchises. >> if you could look to include them as well as other countries in africa which are al-shabaab or the other threats deeply appreciated. >> thank you mr. smith. i want to talk a little bit at the beginning about iran. we are negotiating a deal with them. they continue to be a bad actor all over the middle east in yemen. it appears that the iraqi security force with the help of outside militias including shia militias were making gains into trenton. what has been -- tikrit to what has been iran's role in this operation and what is the trend united states current role in this operation? >> i don't think we have a full

and complete picture on iran's role. there seems to have been some organizational support to the shia elements in the popular mobilization force potentially some direct fire support as well well. how much command and control they were exerting as opposed to how much the shia militia element the pms were exerting i figure it is ultimately to be determined. the u.s. role with regard to tikrit has to be considered in the larger u.s. role across all of iraq. the question is an important one because it wants the operation unfold in tikrit we established a close relationship with, not established a continued our close relationship with the combined joint operations center center, our conversation with the iraqi electorate leaders and political leaders continued. as the operation unfolded prime minister abadi and members of iraqi security forces requested

the u.s. and coalition support for the final phase of the operation ultimate deliberate the city of tikrit. that begin i do want to get into a lot of the operational detail to the benefit of the enemy is listening to what we are saying it began by the provision of information and key intelligence but as i think mr. dingell you saw last night a large number of well targeted and precise airstrikes went end and a beginning to support the iraqi security force operations that are unfolding right now. that i think is where we would leave the level of operational detail. the united states is deeply involved in this operation now. we are deeply involved because it is consistent with our relationship with iraq over all inside iraq but it is also specifically as a result of the request of the iraqi government and the iraqi security forces to assist them in tikrit. >> welcome is in the united

states interest to say what i would call a failing iranian strategy? i worry about iran's role in iraqi military operations because what does that portend a political future for iraq? >> i don't believe at all that we are in our efforts at this moment saving or attempting to salvage a failed iranian strategy. the intent of course is to support the of body government and support the security forces and liberation of not insignificant urban center and population center with the idea ultimately of driving daesh out of the province. recently met with senior leaders from that province and last week across iraq met with senior iraqi leaders. and they're very keen on our goal a role across iraq our role in the restoration of iraq's territorial integrity and sovereignty. but they are also very keen on our role now to support the

iraqi security forces and the final assault on tikrit and liberation of the population-centric and that aspect of the province. >> let me turn to the aumf because i think that's very important. the administration sit and aumf. i was one of the few people who thought it was a good aumf. i did look at it as a finished product to i looked at it as a jumping off point and i thought it was had some very important things. some in congress have called for a very broad aumf that would allow for u.s. ground troops. at me ask you about that. how with the introduction of u.s. ground troops be pursued in the countries in the middle east and by other coalition partners? with a large people help or hinder? >> that's an important question. as i tried respond to questions like that i always try to start by saying the operational environment will clearly dictate

the recommended or the decision-making with respect to what the force will look like. if it is a major emergency one that requires some significant number of troops, then that operational environment i think will be one that is 30 discussed with capitol hill and our congressional partners. obviously, to ensure that we are all of one mind on this issue. absent a specific emergency or absent an operational environment that would seem to require a large infusion of american troops i think we have learned now over many years in the region that the presence of foreign troops from outside that region often ultimately creates a reaction within that region that is focused on those foreign troops that may have, in fact, a destabilizing effect. we also are actually quite good at training and -- training indigenous forces employing

very precise special operation forces either in support of indigenous forces or if necessary in terms of direct action. so there are many options for the commander-in-chief, who ever that will become and there are many options that can be discussed and consulted with the congress on our options. but i think we now know over many years and now of experience in the region that the presence of large numbers of ground forces can sometimes have the reverse effect of our intention which is to stabilize. they can sometimes destabilize the social fabric. we need to be very conscious of that and that's why think that aumf is important that it gives us the ability to empower and enable and support indigenous forces national forces to achieve the goals which otherwise foreign ground forces might have to undertake. it's a very important question. >> thank you. they do very much. >> chairman rohrabacher. >> thank you very much and i want to thank our witnesses.

thank you all very much for being with us today. general allen, your last point about large deployment sometimes actually destabilize rather than stabilizes a situation was very well taken. and i hope that my colleagues understand the significance of that point. and to the degree that you've outlined a strategy that does not require a large deployment of american troops on the ground ground, is something that i think we should all take very seriously and make sure we see how it works because this is a strategy that does work in the long run. let me ask you about letting the mobilizing the local forces which is what you're outlining for us today.

you were involved in the anbar province and the efforts of their -- >> deeply involved, yes, sir. >> so are the sunni tribal forces that enabled you to succeed there, are they currently involved in a struggle against isil? >> anbar remains as you know a very contested area at this particular moment. >> that's correct. >> i have met with many of the shia of anbar and some of them have their tribal sons in the fight right now. without exception, however those i've met from anbar and said when opportunity presents itself they will, in fact, joined the iraqi government to impose isil. >> general, weren't these forces your talk about the most effective forces we had when we were actually had large deployment there? weren't the actually the best

forces? which are telling me now is those forces are not at play. isn't that great? >> i like to thank the marines were the best that we had at our hands, but i take your point. >> i second that. >> the environment was really dramatically different at the time but it was a contested area where once the tribes were properly supported by us they were able to turn on the enemy. >> let me, general, pardon me, my time is limited to ask questions. however let me just note for the record the eye looking from a distance, it seems to me the reason why these tribal forces that were so important to your success with an earlier strategy are not at play now is because the administration is insisting on a strategy that's based on keeping iraq together rather than working and deploying the forces within that region into the fight against isil.

>> if i may comment. i have been to al-assad airbase recently where i saw u.s. and coalition special operators training the tribal forces. it is a full intent of the iraqi government to leverage and they have now have about 7500 or so tribal fighters on the payroll to leverage the tribal fighters ultimately to do much of the same thing that we were successful in doing in '07. it is an intent of the iraqi government. >> i understand it is their intent but the fact is these tribal leaders don't trust the intent of the iraqi government. because of this and by the way i wouldn't either if i was in the spot. what about the kurds? we have, you mentioned that there are kurdish fighters that you're very high on, level on, and then you mentioned of course sunni tribal leaders that we're talking about.

where are the shiites? isn't this really the problem is that when we come down to it the shiites are not doing their part in this? >> that's the really important question that it's a bit complex, and i'm going to take a stab at it and recognizing the time. >> yes, sir. >> last year when dish entered iraq -- daesh entered iraq and begin to see the route and ultimately what looked like potential loss of baghdad and points south grand ayatollah called for the rallying of all iraqis to the flight. not shia but all iraqis to the flight. ultimately to help defend the country. at the time for obvious reasons many of those individuals who were able to get to the flag friendly with the shia elements. they were organized in something called a popular mobilization committee of which we see in the

field today, popular mobilization of forces. they are not they are not -- with the close ties to iran began to think we need to be very nuanced in how we look at them. because these are organizations that were filled last year with young men that came from the tribes in the south. they were teachers one day and they were fighters the next day. they were baker's one day. they were infantrymen the next day. they came to defend their country. the fact that they are organized in shia organizations, and is about 80000 of them or so the fact that they were organized in shia organizations has been ultimately to stabilize the situation and then participate conceivably in the counteroffensive. it is not an intention that these groups remain criminally established. and it is the intention boldly of the iraqi government had elements would be subsumed under

a national guard concept or they would be disbanded and go home. they have already ceased paying about 20,000 of them to go home. so the shia are, in fact involved as and a regular forced in military organization that has played a role. >> has played a role but again underscoring the basic point that we just went through these are not the ultimate fighters that we have to rely on are really the kurds and the sunni tribal people. i believe in a strategy that you said that. i believe it will work but only if we are not hampered by the idea that we're going to keep iraq, which was an artificial entity created by the british a long time ago, make that our number one goal rather than defeating isil just what supposedly our goal is. thank you jenna, very much. and thank all of you very much. >> the chair recognizes mr. deutch. >> and one. i wanted to continue to ask

questions about the shia in iran and the popular mobilization of forces. i want to actually start with the news about our strikes in tikrit. the coverage in the times today included a paragraph that said if the americans did not engage, they feared becoming marginalized by tehran in a country where they spelled much blood in the last decade the official said speaking on condition of anonymity. if you could speak to the strikes in tikrit the air support that the united states is providing, is it is that different than the support we provided in the past? and visiting offered -- is it being offered in part because there were concerns about being marginalized by the iranians? in answering that question that gets to the broader point, again

same article, the preponderance of the 30,000 fighters and iraqi fighting members of the militias fighting alongside the iraqi soldiers and policemen, of those 30,000 how do we general allen am following your last response, how do we do it in a nuanced way to do things between the iranian backed militias and the popular mobilization forces? >> congressman, i think the answer to your question is no. we work i with and through the iraqi government. answer to the iraqi government and the iraqi security forces the iraqis came back and asked for support and we adjudicated that decision to the highest levels and decided to engage there. it's within the iraqi interest in the coalition's interest to be successful in tikrit because we don't want to of another success for daesh or isil.

and we anticipate that the support that we're providing the iraqi city forces with the minister of defense with the ministry of defense in charge of the command and control of that operation that we're in a position that we can provide that support to be successful. >> with regard to the command and control, there is a difference between the role of the traditional shia elements that are aligned directly with iraq's -- i reckon those element of the tmf data provided a larger force posture and a larger worst generation capability. they don't intend to be or are not intended to be a prominent part of the iraqi security force into the. they are viewed as a temporary organization that have played the role ultimately of halting

the for progress of daesh again as we continue to build up the out the capabilities of iraqi security forces across the board we can provide you i think significant detail about the forces that are engaged right now in tikrit. it's actually quite encouraging. to give you a sense of when the pmf elements are going to be impolite and when they won't be in play as we continue to force generate the regular forces they will play an increasing role ultimately in the counteroffensive ultimately to liberate the population. >> general allen, are you confident that the iraqi people view this action in tikrit as one taking place against isis by the united states through airstrikes and iraqi security forces?

or isn't viewed as one that is a combination of u.s. airstrikes and iranian shia backed militias? >> that's a good question. we come back into my time on the ground just last week there, i made an effort to meet with provincial leadership in the province in which tikrit is the largest population center. at the time the leadership and even recently have talked about focusi even recently have talked about focusing on the liberation of tikrit and have applauded the role of american forces in supporting the central government and the iraqi security forces delivering tikrit from daesh. so my sense is that on the ground their view is that the united states as we do in other places multiple of the places in iraq are providing the kind of both enabling the use of information and command control

support the meta- control and ultimately firepower that will facilitate the iraqi government and iraqi city forces encompassing the mission of defeating daesh and liberating this violations and. so my sense is at least the sunni leadership, key sunni leadership, the speaker, the vice president and others but also the sunni leadership of salah ah din have been clear that they support the role of the united states in this particular fight. >> i just hope that translates then down to the iraqi people as well. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from alabama mo brooks. >> i passed. >> chair recognizes mr. cicilline. >> thank you, mr. chairman -- >> you can continue to watch this hearing on our website c-span.org. we're going to leave it now for live coverage of u.s. senator members finishing up work on the 2016 republican budget plan formal debate ends at noon and

continues voting on more than 60 know the name is. lawmakers may also offer other and minutes. mode expected to last until midnight or beyond. and now to live coverage of the u.s. senate. . the president pro tempore: the senate will come to order. the chaplain, dr. barry black, will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. master of our hopes and dreams, who constantly works for the good of those who love you. teach us to strive to be