charles murray said the problem in the welfare system is not that it wastes so much money which invaded rules the life of the people that we are trying to help by making them permanently dependent on the state. this is such an important point that people agree left and right and it is beyond contention at this point. he has a visionary ability to get some major ideas across and it is a privilege to be working with him. >> host: it was pretty controversy over when you go to the bell curve. >> guest: the essential point of the bell curve, the controversy is that these were some of the work that he did where he talked about the differences with respect to race but that wasn't his central point. the central point that he was making is the class is disproportionately starting to revolver out of the difference is people have in their ability to perform cognitively and that the class society is immoral and un-american and it's hurting the way that we are setting up our country. so that was the central point that he was trying to make in the book. the book that he's coming apart

in 2012 which didn't look at race at all if looked at only the differences only on one side which was white america. the reason he did that was to not look at race and to say we are organizing in a way that is leaving the bottom behind. we need to bring the fullness of american society and opportunity. we need to do that more aggressively. >> host: numbers are on the screen if you want to talk to our guest. president of the american enterprise institute and the author of these policy books. who really cares, the surprising truth about the compassionate conservatism, it came out in 2006. gross national happiness. why happiness matters for america and how we can get more out of that came out in 2008. the battle how the fight between big government and free enterprise will shape america's future into the road to freedom is the most recent account to win the fight for free enterprise that came out in

2012. you also list is in friedman and saint john paul to as some of your favorite people are biggest influences. >> guest: these are economical fingers if you think of john paul the great, john paul to the great pope. he's helped us understand a better rule today because he's been of the central figures about bringing down. as the head of the roman catholic church was responsible for reminding people around the world of human dignity was not consistent with communism.

what a baby catholics are not christians or religious people were not come human dignity as human dignity. >> host: since napoleon, the west has caused more issues than salt. >> guest: i think that people would have said that about many places in the world are currently. they don't have the potential to develop policies whether the minorities are not systematically repressed where

you can have a religious pluralism that's a mistake it's not just -- it is a mistake historically. we have to have good policy but i also believe that we need to be optimistic. >> host: what is your initial reaction? >> guest: my initial reaction is that he says a lot of different things. and as a presidential candidate he has to be sort of every place i think that -- i would like to welcome him to aei.

>> host: has he ever spoke their? >> guest: he is a smart guy and it's a good stage for him. >> host: i'm going to combine his because they are semi-related to the philosophically related. number one is free enterprise would allow the churches or organizations to operate tax-free followed by the minimum wage versus the tax loophole for the rich. >> guest: that is exactly right. it doesn't mean that you should before the minimum wage because again it's not >> 's it's the biggest rays drops for the most vulnerable and we have a better policy. that is inconsistent with what the framers of the current policies believe. the belief that religious communities are part of a good society they are a public good and so therefore it is a nonprofit activity.

they are not everybody else has to agree with that but that is the philosophy that motivated in the first place. >> we don't need a term limits for politicians. we need term limits for the abuse of the abusive to the abuse of think that enjoyed lifetime appointments. >> guest: again, one of the things -- i understand the sentiment. i get it. washington, d.c. i'm sometimes outraged as well. i know a lot of people work for the government who have done so for a very long time and they are faithful public servant working really hard. one of the great things the right has made his prescribing bureaucrats as necessarily lazy or incompetent. if you do that, do no good servants will go into public service and if you do that you will get a left-wing

bureaucratic apparatus forever. i think that we have to recognize the public service is a good and dignified thing to do. of course there are great recent bureaucracies and their cuts. there is waste, fraud and abuse ridden through the government. there's a lot we need to do to reform it, but i need more smart principled and conservative people to consider careers in government so that we can have a better point of view that isn't just simply another progressive constituency. and that is one of the biggest problems america faces. >> host: your book wrote it to freedom is wonderful and i really appreciate your having produced an audio book area i commute three hours a day and listen to it twice. freedom comes first, even before justice. >> guest: a three-hour commute i hope that isn't too many miles so you're not sitting in traffic and you get a little bit of freedom your self.

there are a lot of people that honestly be the. but honestly be the. when you look at the american policy, the values they are basically three. exigency justice or fairness and freedom or liberty. and the truth of the matter is that you can't load on one or more of these things. we want all three but certain people pay for some over the others. we need public policies that respect the different values that people have and we all want fairness and belief efficiency is a good thing but it's critically important. their voices tend to be on the libertarian side. so understanding those differences help us to be a little bit more tolerant and people that disagree than people that disagree with us thanks for helping us read the book. >> host: you mention you are working on a fifth book.

>> guest: it will be called the conservative park the whole idea is the vision of human foraging. a human movement that puts people first especially vulnerable people first. it will talk about the sanctification of ordinary work. it will talk about a new policy that a a policies for improving the lives of people that are poor in the cultural bias on the political right are people that are poor and it will talk about a better life for everybody for their families and happiness. this is what the conservative heart is all about and the conservative movement has fallen down by talking about economic efficiency and materialism too much. and thinking about how to share it with more people than how to be more pluralistic pluralistic in our view is and how more explicitly moral in our language about id. and opportunity is the way to go. so i'm hoping to have some sort of an impact on the policymakers and on the citizens and bring us all together around these humanistic values that can lift other people up.

>> host: so you are leaving after four books. >> guest: basic has been very wonderful to me, but i that i went to or collins mainly because my editor is adam bellow can use the son of the great author. he is one of the most storied editors in the movement. and i always wanted to work with him. >> host: john in new york city you are wrong with arthur brooks. >> caller: thank you very much to c-span and mr. brooks i appreciate your views especially on the poor. two quick questions. do you ever still play around with both mozart come and number two, you hear politicians talking abut the need for tax breaks for the job creators and

then the ball straight journal reports on how many large corporations like wal-mart can have their employees don't make enough to live on and they have to go on public assistance and food stamps and i know you were on this earned income tax credit but what about the people that are going to pay their employees on how much to? thank you. >> guest: on mozart, first i don't play anymore and the reason i don't play the horn anymore if i'm out of shape and i don't have the chops for it. so i listen a lot particularly with my kids i enjoy great music and i enjoy other people's suffering while they play music more than i enjoy my own self suffering through a lot of these great pieces. when it comes to paying a fair wage, i understand the sentiment. what can i see corporations that make a lot of money. while the executives coming at

me have employees that are really on the edge. the problem that we see is what a lot of the corporations, they are hiring people that have a hard time earning in value more than that. that is the reason that as a society we need to be able to say that we want to improve the capacity of people to create value. we don't want to pretend people are creating more value than they are. we want them to create more value. the way to do that is through capital enhancement, better education and the near-term eking working more as a contract with us as americans. now, that is good to come from everybody. it's disproportionately going to come from the corporations because they pay the most taxes and that is okay. but if we actually go to the corporations and say from now on you have to pay coming yes but some of these guys they don't create much value. it's not going to hire them and nothing that we do in a free society is going to make them want these people more. and so that is the practical

problem that we need to solve and that's what i'm going to get into. other corporations that only hire people that do create more value from the get-go they pay a lot more than the minimum wage. the pioneer organizations in the area is hobby lobby pushes and super famous because of that. but hobby lobby is paying 12 to $15 hour to start on us or you can do that you will be hiring different workers. and we want to make sure that everybody is capable of creating more value. and that should be the kind of moral goal that we have in society. >> host: you have to be in good shape to play the french foreign? >> guest: your lips have to be in good shape. spend a couple of months not playing it pretty soon you're not going to sound so good. >> guest: i was happy in barcelona because i was in love. i chased the woman that i meant when met tonight is when i was playing a concert on the tour in

france she didn't speak any english but i figured she wasn't french she was from barcelona. and i went to barcelona and a half% because i didn't show enough commitment she would agree to marry me. the good news. there was a great source of happiness and a singular source of joy in my life. playing at the orchestra was not really my cup of tea. it sounds like the best job ever but the trouble is when you play in the symphony orchestra you lack a lot of control. it is pure social control. and i have a tendency to have a trouble with authority so it wasn't the best job for me. >> host: at about the atmosphere of barcelona. are the people have the? >> guest: spain is one of the unhappiest and it's been going the wrong direction for 25 years. spain is less happy than they

were 25 years ago. some of the stereotypes that we have the lighthearted hippie standards are actually wrong and there are a bunch of different reasons for that. a member to the family, community and work in the foregoing are wrong direction on all four particularly work. 26% unemployment and 56% from 56% for young adults. that is just young people trying to be in the workforce to look for jobs. this is the recipe for misery. you have a secularized society that has been hugely socialistic taking away a lot of opportunities. the result has been bad macroeconomic policies, and the environment that isn't very noble for citizens, for the talent and passion they don't meet very well in the workforce and the result is if they think the standards are happier than they actually are. it's a lot of reform that needs to happen in the country to get them on the right track. >> host: the phone lines are currently jammed but if you would like to ask a question on

social media booktv is the better handle. you can make a comment on the facebook page facebook.com/mac book tv. and finally you can send him e-mail at c-span.org. thanks for holding. you are on with arthur brooks. >> caller: i was going to comment about wal-mart also and i don't know why the united states is ground for the company like wal-mart to pay their workers so low while the owners are billionaires and the taxpayer subsidizes their workers when they can very much afford to pay their workers decently. and when the last gentleman talked about that, i don't believe arthur brooks addressed why the working man taxpayer and working woman in taxpayer has to subsidize the other businesses like that. and please come address this

specific thing. by the united states is a ground for that. and also why after the colony collapsed all since then have gone to 1% of the population. why is it ground for the feudal system? >> guest: i wish i lived in a place called limerick or sonic or something like that. i lived in bethesda. the wal-mart question isn't whether or not the owners of the large stockholders and the executives make a lot of money. they do. and if they choose to give to charity i think it's great and important and i hope they do. the key is remembering if you start out a lot of those come in the income that they had it will make hardly a dent in the workforce that ends up to the millions. what we need is the workforce where they are creating more value for wal-mart comes from the get-go they can be earning a

higher wage. so instead of trying to put all of our energy towards forcing our corporations to spread around more money which would inevitably lead to cutting off more jobs for people that are marginal in the value that they are creating to find a way for people to create more value and in the meantime, let's end from the tax revenues find ways to make more and pay more to the people that are going to pay a vast majority of the taxes are rich people and corporations can and that's okay. i think is as a public contract we should be able to do that. >> host: which of your books have sold the best? >> guest: the road to freedom was on the bestseller list for a while and i'm grateful to that. i'm grateful for that. and some others were sort of surprising. the first commercial book that i wrote, which is actually the fifth book that i wrote i guess it is a good one who cares about the charity a professor at syracuse university.

i wrote a stick book and found myself in the radio ontelevision and people bought it and in relatively large numbers changed very abruptly. if someone were to pick up one of her books which one would you recommend? >> guest: i favorite book, and they were not written by me. the favorite book that i've written that meant us to be as gross happiness. it didn't sell the most, but it's one that i -- i learned a lot about with my own personal values are. the book i'm writing right now is sort of closest to how i see the world and what i think we can do to make a better world together as a social contact. >> host: wayne is in, not iowa. hello. are you with us? i think he's gone.

let's try telling an albuquerque >> caller: yes, hello. thank you for taking my call. and i was going to ask something else that he keeps using this phrase "creating more value." as the clerks in wal-mart aren't really creating value of the way that it's structured and they get paid it certainly seems to deny the value that they are giving and doing and doing their jobs. and the phrase creating more value, it sounds like a think tank phrase for me. we've used it many times. i haven't counted it but i do not think that it's really articulate. so if you could talk to that and also reparations for people who are definitely enslaved in the

country that created value. >> guest: creating value may sound like a think tank, that it may have some correlations between the two. when i talk about value, we can talk about economic value and non- economic value. when i took that earned success i don't mean making money. that isn't what i mean at all. creating value with your life and the lives of other people which is a deeply moral thing to do. i don't think that there is any difference whatsoever between the guy that runs the hedge fund and somebody that trims hedges. on the contrary, anybody that believes that there is any value difference in the deep oral value between anybody that is an honest days work in any java versus any other is on the wrong track. and that is the reason by the way. i heard the vice president on national tv talk about the dead-end jobs.

it offended me so much coming initiative and everybody that is watching us today. we should reject that. there are no dead-end jobs. there are dead-end politicians. there is a dead-end culture committed and policies but there are no dead end jobs because there are no dead-end people. if you are giving an honest days work it is critically important. that's why i want policies. again, take away the idea that somehow we are going to browbeat organizations. let's be practical. we know that people on the work and honest day of work they should be able to support themselves and their families. we all agree on that. the question is how do we make it so. we have policies that can get it done. but we are not doing it because we are trying to score political points. so let's fight for working people. let's fight for the poor. let's implement the policies that will actually get that done, which incidentally will also be disproportionately paid for by rich people and

corporations. what do today and we will see tremendous progress in the social justice in america. >> host: crazy e-mails to you has a solution for the high cost of a college education? do you need a college education to get a job please do not tell me manufacturing jobs are coming back. >> guest: manufacturing jobs are not coming back. manufacturing is a good percentage of the value of the american economy than it was 30 years ago but it is one eighth of the jobs. you are right. it's just less job intensive as a part of the economy. education is critically important coming, and we need a couple of different reforms. ..

thomas edison state college in new jersey. i did my whole college degree by correspondence and finish what i was 30 which i mentioned earlier. if it hadn't been for that competition i would've gone to college. i simply would've been foreclosed on the opportunity. i had a deep personal reason for a different path that will exert downward pressure on the tuition rate for traditional college students as well. >> host: potty mouth into questions. i was surprised to see mr. burks challenge the orthodoxy of the

influence of politics. what should be done to address the oversized influence of money? >> guest: i am not as worried as a lot of people are about what money is doing in politics. i want a lot of transparency. i want people to know what is going on and i want less of the weird regulations that help certain people but don't help others. i think there is a lot to be said for free speech have manifested the way repay for politics but we should actually understand who is paying for what. in the political process we can get with more transparency that would be good for the process. >> host: paul second question. economists say for everyone in the world to live like americans, it would require three or four more planets. is the american system, the american standard of living scalable? >> guest: it is. the american system is scalable. there's a lot of facts that were

really surprising to people. if you make within $34,000 a year you are the global 1%. people don't actually recognize that. virtually everyone watching us today from the global 1%. you may not get to that standard for more people around the world? of course not. that's ridiculous. they would be written off for data and are now making $9000.10000 a year. places like baby yet that are tremendous success stories have been able to get ahead without the idea will consume all the resources. until relatively recently, historically, several hundred years ago, the truth is it either had more money arthur would have less. free enterprise made a positive somewhat where peter can a positive somewhat where peter can have more anarchic enough war. should reduce sustainably? of course. we can do well to think simultaneously. we have a strong ethical economy and we all can be more

prosperous together. that is the lesson of the free enterprise system. a couple of quick facts. when i was a kid in 1970 compared to today the percentage of the worlds world's population living on a dollar or day less 70% of americans think there's more hunker the world then there was the 70s. it's completely wrong. 80% decline in the poverty. the reason for that was not the united nations for the world bank for the imf. good institutions are bad. people disagree on that. was five things. it was globalization free trade, property rights the rule of law and american-style entrepreneurship is spread around the world after 1970. these are facts. now what are we going to do as good stewards and global brotherhood to bring that to more people. instead of saying we all have tickets and less, we all have to live under more austerity as if

there was a solemn, a set amount of sources that we can never go beyond. that is wrong. prosperity can grow when more people can come out of poverty and we have a moral obligation to do it to serve fellow man. this is the optimistic vision that the american system should bring in liberals and conservatives should band together on sr compact of global brotherhood of people around the world. >> host: chris huntsville alabama. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: hello, gentlemen. how are you doing? thank you for c-span. mr. burks i just want to tell you that i am a fan of milton friedman as well. i read several of his books have watched a lot of black-and-white from back in the day when he was talking about the economy. in the middle eastern country as well as india.

he weighs showing how an economy can be with people working together. how could we bring that blueprint from that kind of world to the ghetto in the ghetto in low-income parts of this country and put it in that we can do with a argument over there was little or nothing. >> host: chris, what do you do in huntsville? >> guest: construction mainly, but due to the weather it is kind of slow right now. >> host: what attracted you to milton friedman? >> caller: basically the way that if the system can help people that don't have a voice economically, that it benefits all and it is something that is good. you don't have to worry about dependent on welfare and food stamps because we can do for

ourselves. >> guest: thank you chris. how was it that we have world development policies that are so good and potentially rwanda or transition economies, but where so much trouble and around cities. for that matter in rural areas that i left behind as well. the key things to remember or we know how to create prosperity. we know how to do that. you need work and unique human capital and culture. that is what you really need. you need a work culture that embraces the values that we are all created equally and created a sql and that we could all create value again. i use it again so our viewers keeping a word count. i said it again. we need a culture where we have a political system where politicians are warriors for job creation. this is one of the things i like

about governors because governors are crazy -- i just create a 7000 jobs. they will run down the street if they can get 7000 jobs to come to their state. what will they do more of? before my feet hit the floor every morning i say what am i going to do for the government system is in the way of that. when a debate bias job creation and unique human capital. i think it is holding people back that they are being discriminated against when it comes to having good schools and equal access to education. it is not right in this country that we have too many places where school systems around for nearly for the benefit of grown-ups enough for kids. it is absurd we are doing that. california were 52% is spent on education yet you have one of the highest and fastest growing poverty rates in the nation. we actually can if we have a

bias for work on a healthy culture and for training cave for training kate doesn't matter their basic civil rights. post go arthur brooks, sometimes the 7000 jobs that a politician creates, tax incentives, tax breaks come in maybe free something or others. is that an effective way to create jobs? >> guest: i am always in favor of finding the way for government to take less money. i know the government needs the revenue. but when there's competition with respect to taxes between states, that's a good team because i'm that there's more economic value being created privately, which is better for the economy which if things work right better for everybody. when there is cronyism however that's a problem. special deals come in the special industries where they're able to get a leg up on their competition here that is struggling a problematic and that's what a lot of states with you. bring your source to my area. your competition will have to

pay taxes but you are. that is cronyism and unfair and bad for workers bad for economies and bad for government as well. post of those types of incentives, which classified those as you do in "the road to freedom" with government activity? >> guest: yeah i want tax regimes more favorable to everybody that create a magnetism for economic activity is supposed to targeted tax breaks for individuals. >> host: fargo north dakota. as an atheist as mr. brooks suggests that makes it to be happy. atheists and people of faith may or may not be happy for various reasons. freedom from religion would improve my chances of happiness. post go i would recommend religion. he's an atheist but he understands the beneficial impact of spirituality in everybody's life. as an atheist you are not for close to the same benefits that

i is a practicing christian look at. good luck. thanks for your question. >> host: larry, centralia washington. good afternoon to you. >> caller: thank god for c-span and booktv. my favorite weekend programming. my question for dr. brooks. the heritage foundation versus aei, can you compare the two against each other and the second question would be as it the opinion of the citizens united decision in the mail a request for donations from my party. i quit sending anything because it's just like adding a cup of water to the pacific ocean compared to citizens united. >> host: larry, we will get that. if you could share your opinion or what you know about aei and the heritage foundation, what you think. >> caller: when i watch c-span

and anytime there's someone on heritage foundation selling a book or some thing, it is so far right-wing that i i can hardly sit through the whole program and aei i noticed that during his tenure as secretary of state his wife was ordered a job at aei. i am not sure about that. >> host: thank you, sir. we will get arthur brooks' views. >> guest: thank you for that. i grew up in seattle and then through their all the way through my childhood. i know it well. the heritage foundation has been around since the 1970s. aei was formed in the late 30s. aei is more academic. the heritage foundation has been more professional for the conservative movement. so they've had a different action to route the year. i've been a donor for both for a long time. they do different things as a matter of fact.

aei my institution does not corporate policy. if you think it's today or not the official views because aei doesn't have official views. 70 full-time scholars and 145 on top of that and so our views are more like a university than it is like policy advocacy organizations. the heritage foundation has views that are central to the corporation and that is how they will be affect it. they are quite different along these lines. >> host: colin powell, i think he meant dick cheney. >> guest: when cheney has a wonderful book that came out last year a biography of madison. i recommend it to everybody because it tells us something about what a great and independent thinker to help us remember the original conception of what it meant to be an american dreamer from the get-go. >> host: has almost powell been involved with aei?

>> guest: no she hasn't. but when cheney and other public figures are privileged to be involved throughout the years. >> host: larry also asked. there's a lot of legitimate disagreement on it. it doesn't necessarily bother me that we have more of a competition of money between them. somebody who is sending them five or $75 check is going to be a smaller percentage of the sun that goes into it. that means they have an opportunity to affect the debate in different ways. i might note that a good thing to do is to support think tanks for example i'm a witch as if a $75 check instantly. >> host: dear fisher facebook page. mr. brooks, both born babe has so much as stated by performers of our tax system should look to taxing us when we spend wealth, not when it's served. those on to talk about the fair

tax act. >> host: the idea of consumption taxes. for those who are want just enough to look at the website of think things, i recommend going to aei.org and look at our tax specialists. he's written a book on consumption taxation called the ex-tax. all that means is you don't have to pay taxes on the money you save. but when you take money out when you spend it, do you thought you consume you have to pay taxes on. there have appropriate ways of protecting poor people from taxation. it's a much worse is the way to design our tax system. if we did that we would see the stronger economic growth and greater tax fairness. >> host: greta post that you should run for president in 2016 if for no other reason than to get your message before the public. >> guest: thank you so much. the question is is america ready for the president. i think not.

>> caller: yeah thank you. i was wondering if you had the insider overview or thoughts on the permanent dividends at the oil revenues and disperse dividends every year. all of the residents they are. it's pretty intriguing they been able to keep this going for so many years. >> host: what do you think of that? >> guest: i think it's pretty good. it's the government handling the people's resources and returning it to them. it's amazing they can invest in i wish everybody could do that. just go the key to that is you need to be free big natural resource, have very few citizens per square mile and have the tap never turn off. it's a little hard to scale with the whole united states. saudi arabia has done that norway extractive industries have done that. and nonfree countries, it's the kiss of death quite frankly.

and extractive industries and nonfree countries you've been supporting populations on the basis of modern success but on the basis of natural resources can be really dangerous. fortunately in america we can do better in alaska has shown it doesn't have to be terrible. >> host: ronald is calling from west lafayette indiana. are you associated with purdue? >> guest: >> caller: yes i am. >> host: and the student ecological science and engineering. >> host: go ahead with your question or comment. >> guest: i have a two-part question. but i'm thinking about distribution and supply and demand. i would like to know i do think you would improve everyone had access to nutritious food? akamai, how do you think the american food system of government would be effective if government supports the programs like snape and corn and soybeans if they were replaced by an

income tax credit performers are absolutely free enterprise and see what happens. but he or on that? >> host: what are your thoughts first ronald? >> guest: well i don't know. i think there is a large debate about replacing some of the pro-program especially since now takes up 80%. the usda program bills. technically the supply and demand side of it. if you remove it makes it difficult. some of the same people with corn and soybean would end up in the same with fruits and vegetables because it's difficult to grow fruits and vegetables especially to make it cheap. >> host: ronald, what do you hope to do with your degree in ecological science? >> guest: eventually, continue research into a little more because it's difficult to work on the wife and how when you

don't get the wife. so disciplinary research in the future. to think about how to format because each active research is fundamentally political in a resource constrained world which we live in. >> host: >> guest: thank you. you are the expert and i just learned from hearing you talk and appreciated very much. one thing i want other viewers to know is the what and how important but the wise critical. that is true in every area of policy. it's true for each one of us to think about why we are doing what we are doing. this is such a big deal in policy work that i believe essential to the work we do at aei. on food security, it is absolutely true mission of social entrepreneurs working more and more to have basic food and water security for people all over the world and do it now would be an unambiguously good thing because this debate to more global prosperity and human

accomplishment. people who are starving who have nutritional needs are people who simply cannot run their success. so that's a good thing to do. in the united states the security to the snap program is critically. i see no data to dissuade me of the idea we should be cutting for fundamentally altering food stamps. the cost would outweigh the benefits of doing so. that said, we need to detach them from the system of arms subsidies that is distorting markets and making foodstuffs more expensive than it should be most especially for the poor get farm subsidies or something politically difficult thing to change. if we look at human welfare and basic fairness this is something we absolutely need to do. in the farming community let it tell you, they want to get rid of these things. you can't do it for the competition and not themselves. they want a fair system that levels the playing field for everybody. when i talked to producers

energy producers of ethanol they tell me privately, let's get rid of the small subsidies. that will normalize the corn market. it will make it cheaper as a source of food and at the same time if you get rid of the energy subsidies, we should be getting rid of oil subsidies and when subsidies and energy subsidies as well. the best forms of energy will obtain. in equilibrium, we do need more free enterprise, particularly for the case of jobs and opportunity of growth for poorest americans. >> host: springfield, georgia. dr. brooks mentioned pope john paul ii. what are his views on the current pope is the current pope is used to. very antithetical to dr. brooks? >> guest: the current pope is a marvel. more people are attending all over the world than ever before and after so-called catholic or somebody sympathetic come you think that's a great name. the current holy father is argentine.

he's not been exposed to american capitalism. when he thinks of capitalism he thinks that what is going on in argentine today. 100 years ago argentina was the richest and the entire hemisphere. they've been in the process is under development because of cronyism, big government statist on. all on. all the things i've been regretting over the past two hours on this program has been in huge abundance of large enough. it's no wonder the current pope who comes from the system sees capitalism through that lens. all of the united states progressives and conservatives benefited so very much from the rule of law and property rights to believe that free enterprise can lift people up. we all think these things that we have an opportunity to help them understand how the american dream can be much more for human dignity and lifting people up. it's the best opportunity. >> host: marianna skeleton from pittsburgh. hello, mary.

>> host: mag is going to remind you to turn down the volume otherwise there's a little bit of a delay. david in phoenix. we are listening david in phoenix. david, are you with us? david is not with us. and let's try another pittsburgh call. this is joseph in pittsburgh. joseph we are listening. >> caller: thank you. i wanted to ask dr. brooks now with the contract with harpercollins, i'm pretty sure that's owned by rupert murdoch holdings. what is your opinion of rupert murdoch? >> guest: thank you for your question. the chairman rupert murdoch. i know him personally. he loves his country. he's so happy to be in the

united states. he's so happy for the freedom papering said he's been a transformational person and media all over the world. so to see somebody and and a word i admire him. >> host: , california. >> caller: hello? >> host: hi bob. >> caller: hi good morning. it is still morning out here. i want to ask dr. brooks recruit by taking jobs from europe and now china is growing by taking jobs from the united states. how do you continue with the system of taking jobs from one set of people to another set of people and still maintain some sort of middle class. >> guest: thank you for that. the import thing to keep in mind the important point that you are making that want to

underscore is any change doesn't just have winners. when you have fundamental economic change, people lose out as well and a good economic system in a good social system recognizes people will lose than win and you have to deal with those losing. the thing that i want to correct is we didn't just take jobs from europe. we created new jobs to the free enterprise system which is to create a system of greater abundance. when china becomes freer, free enterprise as opposed to capitalism can create economic opportunity without destroying the opportunity in this case. in the united states however, jobs to move. they move to parts of the world in the process of developing where we were before. if we do with that in way that doesn't leave people behind come you can't just ignore people. you can't soak them up as public assistance. you have to get serious about education human capital development and we have not done

that. i go to a little town in kentucky the company factory in the town has been checked out a new you want to moloch, honduras or someplace in asia. a lot of people are unemployed. generally speaking, a doctor will start writing and giving diagnoses of back pain and other things so that people can subsist on $900 a month in disability. that's a reason over 11 million americans are on permanent this ability because of economic dislocation. the highest in our history and the last six years since we've been living for americans behind. at the same time, i go across to north dakota. we've been talking about wal-mart and the show. the average salary for stocking shelves at $17 an hour. that is three markets that were. why is that we don't have relocation subsidies? by don't be a greater remission

so people with less opportunity to be paired up with places where there's more opportunity? why don't we retrain people and move them? it's consistent with america's culture. all of us sitting here and watching, our families didn't start out here. someday. but the vast majority didn't do that. they came from someplace else. we need to eat those of opportunity and a government culture that can facilitate and help it more. >> host: from the road to freedom, prime minister margaret thatcher is reported to have said that the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money. that is the road america is headed down now. aida pennsylvania appeared you were on the air. >> caller: thank you very much for your program and for your present speaker. i just adore everything he said. many tell you about myself. i'm a registered libertarian.

every pictures on my windowsill. each says work is the only thing that dignifies the man and i thank you for the things you've mentioned to help me in my argument and people say the good old days are gone. you've given so many examples of how we've improved and i hope my friends were listening. secondly, please tell me how i can be more of an activist. how can i inspire that although my two children are grown not been very successful. but they are not activists and neither am i. i want to be more active. i want you to try and inspire that. it's a message you get with us. we have to inspire everybody. get the people i bought this not doing their job. >> host: ada, give us a quick snapshot of your life before today. >> caller: anglo-saxon. i'm of italian heritage and i

grew up in brooklyn and philadelphia and i went to europe for four years to 19 orting nine to 1953. i met my husband there and we had a great buys. he's dead now so that's okay because he was a great has-been. please tell us how to be more act is. how can we get our children to be more active? >> guest: aid if i can be like you when i'm 90, 90 that is really all i ask. the key to activism is remembering that each one of us belongs to communities and each one of us is blessed in these communities. look, if more 90-year-old people in the united states were talking like you the people at your windowsill work brings people to dignity. this is unambiguously true. remember the experiences you had in your life the wisdom you bring in the comments he even if you can find ways in your particular community to share these ideas that is how ideas

spread in the united states. in the current vernacular that is how things go viral. each one of the season ourselves as a leader. we have a pivotal role in taking. who do i touch with him i can share these views? that's what leadership stars. thank you. god bless you. >> host: david phoenix, you are on the air. >> caller: i watch tim geithner on your network a few months ago and had to turn them off before i had a stroke. so i would like to hear from a very intelligent defender and reformer of the system holidays. i mean i accept too big to fail. why couldn't the individuals responsible for running those institutions in the ground have received savage punishment? maximum-security confiscation of absent and how can the system ever regain credibility as they keep getting away with it? >> guest: thank you for your

question. the reason i was too big to fail and the reason we had t.a.r.p. in the bailout are things people are alarmed about morally is because there was so much fear. economists didn't know whether or not the atm machines were going to stop working. i don't mean atm machines for rich people. i mean for you and me. that is something that stimulated both among republicans and democrats the will to do something like t.a.r.p. when there was -- when there were activities that were improper when there was this legal and moral impropriety, we need rectification. we need a responsibility. to the extent we haven't done it in a sense be as much as anybody else. who needs to fight for that? conservatives, not just progresses. stand up for fairness and say it's not right when somebody campbells is somebody else's money and they are rewarded from the air.

i agree with you but what we need is more public moral outrage that cronies will be able to wire around. >> host: run arthur brooks' book "the battle," the narrative about the financial book consists of five key claims. one, government was not the primary cause of the 2008 economic crisis. two, the government understands the crisis that is how to fix it. three companies treat americans were nothing more than victims of the crisis. for crisis. four the only way to save the economy is through massive government growth and deficit spending. inside, the middle class will not pay for the stimulus package. the rich will. >> guest: these are raw views we heard starting in 2008 in 2009. these things turned out to be false. the biggest one that we needed to keep in mind and i direct everybody's attention to my

colleague anna peter wallace and his work housing in the financial crisis. the biggest thing we need to remember is that government housing policy that basically saying for decades now democrats and republicans say full american citizenship requires buying a house through ball that people should not been getting drove up the price of real estate, led to the bubble and melted the financial system. this is bad public policy. the worst part is we are doing it again. through the process of filling up these great big bubbles in financial markets again. we can look at malfeasance in our last caller pointed out that he was a real problem but the private sector file in the public sector's lead down this path at the least let's not have government wrecks our economy for pete's sake. it is just common sense. >> host: peter wallace and has a new book coming out. >> guest: she does indeed he is basically a book in january

that shows how the financial crisis proceeded. it takes you step-by-step. i know it's complicated. people throw up their hands and say i don't understand it. read the book right after the first of the year and you will be a lot smarter. >> host: in january you will see peter wallace and on the program for next year's "after words." >> caller: hello? >> host: we are listening. >> caller: hello wow i am really excited to be on here. thank you for being on c-span. i am a recent graduate from arizona state university and i am studying sociology. but my question is, what do you think future generations can do to help you have a more positive

opportunistic lifestyle? >> guest: thank you very much. congratulations and good luck on your career. in many ways, this is the most exciting time because there is such a blank slate, desire for people to do good at a time after there's been a lot of suffering and i can tell already you will be real leader. the key thing i recommend is this. think for yourselves. look, you know come easy for me to say here on the great c-span and tell you this is how you should be. think for yourself. this is what america needs. more young people not saying i'm a republican or democrat. or when i was in college my professors all top ministers a way to thing but we are autonomous individuals. we have access to lots of information. remember as a generation of leaders that will save this country and commit morally and

each person hominids on to sam going to form my ideology on the basis of what i think is right. if we have a generation of new leaders are freethinkers will be on suit the powers that be? really dangerous for these vested interests because you could be the revolutionaries to turn our country around. >> host: let's go back to the battle for a second. the political left understands the 30% coalition's appeal among young adults. it aggressively and successfully wooed them in the 2008 election campaign and plans to grow its coalition over time. there were three long-term strategies to keep the young and the 30% coalition you pay off the debt give them government jobs and make sure they never have to pay for the services the government provides. >> host: there is always a strategy for people in power to bring people along and permanently into their coalition. the greatest source -- the

greatest weakness that the entrenched powers have if people taken for granted granted is not being taken for granted. it's astonishing to me. there's this depression among conservatives. they say look the world belongs to the left. how come? there are more and more nonwhites. more and more single women that 18 to 29 more in favor of president obama and company. that is completely incorrect thinking. demography is not destiny. 75 years ago you couldn't find catholics to read together for the republican party yet today they are overwhelmingly republican. demography doesn't vested in any party or ideology to failure or success. what this tells us today and we can and hasten these patterns of destroying demographic destiny by asking people to think for themselves. so this could be the greatest

time of the greatest nightmare for their side on the basis of what we do to improve the moral climate creating more opportunities all the things that those demographic groups have traditionally been left wing that would actually bring them to the philosophy that engenders the greatest human dignity. >> host: creech is in grand falls. good afternoon. >> caller: good afternoon. it's a pleasure to speak with you both. big al from and know who for an earlier was asking about activism. i discovered a monument in plymouth massachusetts that i never even existed and is even existed and is called a national monument to the forefathers. it turned 125 years old this year. it stands for faith morality law, education and literacy. it stands for civil and religious liberty.

you know make repairs for survivors of the armenian genocide. i grew up in a family where we had the family business. i am just so worried for our country and scared. for some reason this monument has been put on my heart and i've been trying to rally the troops around. i don't know if you have any suggestions or can put me in touch with ada. >> host: this you found in plymouth, massachusetts? >> guest: yeah, if not down by the waterfront. it's up on the hill. the largest granite monument in the united states of america and it was built during the civil war and they had to kind of scale it down a little bit because it was hard to raise money at the time. the thing i find unbelievable and most americans have never heard of the monument before. i did neither. i'm 50 years old now and i was

there in 2010. but over the past few years and the work that i have and trying to do were spread about the monument, it is amazing how it has connected to americans from all over the country. this gives them hope. i don't know what to do. >> host: albright. >> guest: that's great. i didn't know about the monument either, but is there anything more wholesome than what we just listened? these human values for that matter. so what can you do? part of it is the torture of your life. if you believe in these things, these bring most people to the happiest life. what greater joy for the people who need them the most. be a happy warrior. one of the big mistakes we make that is pretty much everybody watching here today. you are watching c-span about public affairs, how do we exhort

leadership? not hiding our views are more people. not hiding behind materialistic and economic language, but saying this is what brings the best life to the most people. whether the people i fight for what likes me or not that is the beginning of a happy warrior. that is what we can do. when we do that are we ever going to be a strong name. >> host: faith and family. republicans have been passed or conservative profamily values. >> guest: they have. when you have sources of happiness like faith and family, don't use them as a cudgel or a weapon someone else. it is absurd if you take the happiness and use it as a weapon. the difference between a force between a minority area oppositional force and a majoritarian joyful force is the

first bytes against things from using weapons at its disposal. the second half before some other force that is winning is for people. how do you fight for people? by sharing the sources of business in your life. if you got something beautiful and good, do so in a positive humanistic way. don't do it in a negative. tentacle that bashes people with your particular views. this is important. i want to share with you out of a sense of love. >> host: arthur burks, to current issues we have an address. the emigration in particular i strongly suspect will be much less of an issue or hot potatoes in 2016 that it is today. why? >> guest: part of it as president obama gave the republicans a great gift too through the executive order will slowly but surely taken out of the political discourse the republicans are masters possible

for legislation. my guess is democrats will be very, very disappointed that president obama did this because they couldn't keep the immigration issue alive nearly as long since obama took this step. the second is the way of real immigration reform is going to take place is little by little. over five years, there's about 30 things that need to get done and through legislation and policy action the most important and least political objectionable can be taken piece by piece. the high skilled immigration reform putting more engineers in the silicon valley. a guestworker program perhaps. in either of isis and so you know who's illegal and not illegal. little by little there will be positive progress and it will be much less controversial and 2016 that it is today. on same marriage this is something there's a lot of controversy on the right.

same-sex marriage is an issue where the right is just monument to a 100% against it. that is actually not true. there's a huge amount of dialogue on the right on this particular issue. rather than adjudicated not but they tell you what we learn from this. 15 years ago it was a 7030 issue. today to 6040. the advocates for marriage equality stopped fighting against and started fighting for equal rights. doesn't matter what your views on this are. the lesson to take away when you stop fighting against things and start fighting for people, you prepare to start renaming your policy battle. >> host: linda in rutland, vermont. you are in booktv on c-span2 ways arthur brooks. >> dr. brooks, my question is more that you seem to be expires

and the answers to many of our social else and our government isn't doing anything. is this because they are more interested in sustaining themselves than they are taking care of the country? not understanding that sooner or later the country simply going to explode. >> guest: yeah thank you. i appreciate the question. it is hard for me to be in the heart of policymakers and look at their motives. i can look at the fact we are not dealing with a lot of issues we need to. to begin with this much easier when you're not in government ticket solutions than when you are because the puka process is complicated to be sure. there's a bigger problem we need to deal with them that's leadership. leaders again to look at political coalitions and try to simply accumulate political power while bashing enemies.

leadership is actually using power for a positive purpose. it is basically saying i will ask people to sacrifice and do hard danes. that is not what we have in washington d.c. we don't have leadership and a lack of executive leadership is what grind systems down. i'm the president of a nonprofit organization. it's not the united states i understand. only a couple hundred people working full-time. but they tell you if i didn't think what are we trying to do? how do? how were we trying to move ahead? are we trying to help other people? if i did with my own capital the organization would grind down. donors have stopped giving to us. we wouldn't have impact and how positive for some politicians in the hill and write good books and materials and have good offense. this is what is required in leadership all over the place. the number one thing we should regret is we have forgotten what leadership means that the

executive level and that's the problem in the united states today. >> host: 15 minutes left with our guest in this month's "in depth." john you are on the air. call co-are you doing dr.? i wanted to talk about the situation of government employees. the last number checked a few years ago was coming up on 30 million state local and federal. they don't contribute anything. they don't produce anything whatsoever. it just can't be sustained. so instead of taking care of business they are wondering what this for lunch. do you have any answers as far as that is concerned? it can't be sustained. >> host: thank you sir. >> guest: there are a lot of government employees. that is unambiguously true. do they create a? i actually wouldn't quite agree

her character as government employees is not creating good. we have cases where markets fail in private markets can't redress every wrong in our society. we have public goods. i wouldn't say that somehow police officers and firefighters and people and teachers are not creating a whole lot of positive good. are there too many? yeah. if the government to good? absolutely. but we do about that? one tangible issue that's true than the expansion of government and government payroll and other public-sector unions. the whole idea that unions are bad is not right. the labor unions per se or really compatible with the free enterprise system, but they have to be able to exist in allen said the management of operations and they have to have an interest in not driving corporations out of business. when you collect is bargaining agreements between management

and employees, they have to have an interest in making sure the company is prosperous. that's not the case because they don't have a budget constraint. when jon corzine was the governor of new jersey and when they got out the public-sector union instead of fighting for you, that would be the ceo of general motors saying it would have the wages. i would not create a balance between the two. public sector units have a flexible budget constraint and it's your money as a taxpayer. furthermore they can use the funds to support political candidates who support the expansion of public-sector unions who effectively are paid for those political contributions with tax revenues. i understand how conservatives get bent out of shape. i would recommend that viewers get bent out of shape about that as well. >> host: e-mail what does mr. brooks think about the

recent column encouraging corporate boards to include labor representatives and community representatives. mr. myerson said this would help towards think or in terms of stakeholders and not peerless stockholders. what aei ever deliver such a topic for discussion or research? >> guest: he's a smart guy and i like him. i've been on panels with them in the past. that is sort of the point. we have a corporate governance problem and the system is bringing more of labor representation and community representation on the board. i don't agree with that, but i do agree that a corporate governance and alex pollock had aei has done a lot of good work on corporate governance. he talks about the fact they're simply not enough responsibility on corporate boards for the life of organizations and we need a different kind of responsibility. he had positive steps on how to do it. having an affirmative action for labor unions and community wraps, i think that would create

a misalignment of incentives in dangerous ways to corporations that would ultimately hurt working people. i do agree that we have a problem with corporate governance in america today. >> host: sharon wants to know via e-mail how was your catholic faith inform your thinking? >> guest: as an formed by thinking in the following way. when i do work on free enterprise, i remember free enterprise comes after morality. that is ethical thinking, secular ethical thinking as it happens to work. the values through my christian faith. remember, i try to remember that normality comes before markets. without a proper sense of brotherhood of helping others, of honesty, of love that markets will be like any other system for good or for a period there will be some sort of an amoral machine. if we don't have a good view of how we try to help our fellow

man, we don't help their fellow man and not with the disposal which in the united states should be the free enterprise system. >> host: educated, work 30 years. save at least 10% off through those years. invested most of my husbands life insurance. all went down in 2008. had to retire in 2002 due to medical problem, not dependent on social security. there needs to be more controlled fund and keen and insurance companies need to be out of investment. >> guest: there's a lot of positive ideas on how to separate streams the investment. i'm so sympathetic and i hear the story again and again and it is not right what happens to working people in the country like our e-mail her here. but they probably had as the government system of housing that melted down our market and away we way we try to redress this and the longest term for a

monetary policy that has blown up these equity markets yet again after e-mail order has gotten out of equity markets. or are you people work really hard. they get their life savings white south. we build up the stock market again through free money and guess where the money goes? the top 10%. somebody made a guess that 95% of the game is the top 1%. 81% of the wealthy since 2009 have gone to the top 10% of the income distribution. this is during an economic regime from a president who promised that wouldn't have been. what we have is the rich getting richer and the poor stack never getting poorer all the way back to 2009. we nine. would become two americas are one america is in full blue of recovery. 5% economic growth in the other side is zero or negative economic growth and wealth gains have come from policies making the rich richer. that should outrage us.

that is not right that we have policies that do that. we need to fight back. as conservatives and progressives that say what am i going to do the policies how people at the bottom so they an equal shot at the american dream. the inequality we talked about the many discussions at elite government levels. inequality is the enemy. opportunity and equality is the real problem. not income inequality and opportunity inequality is being driven i policies at the last six years. >> host: brenda and her window you are on with arthur brooks. >> caller: hi mr. tran for. you know you talked about too big to fail and we all comment on this. i wanted to ask you about iceland. they did not put money into their base implies their corrupt government was also dismantled and replaced.

but why did we do something like that instead of giving the money today? they did it to get my second porridge. my neighborhood is gone. when they lost their homes, the bank got paid. >> host: we've got the point brenda. >> guest: thank you brenda. iceland is a small country with 250,000 people. it was clear that in the seychelle economy based on a totally unstable speculative banking system. bottom line don't run your company like iceland did hear it if we had a country we can crash like crazy in the united states and maintain some integrity. the problem is people like you in your neighborhood are the ones who got hurt a lot. when there is now part is when people are running off money

they didn't earn people should be held accountable. i don't think there's any reason wished a special privileges because they are rich. either way, i think because you are not rich doesn't mean you should be held accountable. between 25% 50% of people who lost their homes foreclosed on their homes voluntarily. to combat this. this is work that comes from the university of chicago that talked about voluntary foreclosure. a lot of people millions of millions of people turned their keys into the bank and continue to pay their mortgage because they were upside down and it was not in their interest to do so. all of the should regret which people middle class people. >> host: glitzier from charlene via e-mail. i am amazed that ucs is comparable with the european social democracies. those countries have universal health care at lower cost. reasonable accommodations for

working families with small children. they test higher than us at all educational levels. they've levels. there the better% of full-time jobs with decent benefits. they have a good business environment for smaller discrepancy between the house and have-nots. how can you possibly draw the conclusion which he did? >> guest: i would recommend our e-mail or move to europe. it sounds great. go do that. that's a good idea. good luck finding a job in fitting into society and learning the language. the truth of the matter is in the united states we are the ones soaking up the entrepreneurs from europe. there's still entrepreneurial migration from young people looking for opportunities because of the dynamic society to rework people more. are we good enough? absolutely, not. i lived in europe for a long time and let me tell you the food is good, the weather is great. that i prefer with respect to opportunity to live in the

united states and people are voting with their feet and agree with me. my wife is an immigrant from spain. she's grateful every day. when she came to the united states, we had no money. she spoke very little english. we were buried she would have opportunities. she had four job offers in her first month or this is the greatest of the world for people who want to work. it was a profound moment for me. she worked for three years at three years at a minimum wage job and we needed our work and we needed our work and neither one of us thought that was a dead-end job and we are grateful for it. again, can we do better? for sure. don't give me your because i don't want to. >> host: arthur brooks is an author, social scientists happiness expert and president of the american enterprise institute. @arthurbrooks is his twitter handle if you would like to follow him. ..

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what is the proudest moment of your career so far? >> guest: wow. i don'tno >>

>>host: what is the proudest moment? >>guest: i hope it is yet to come. i am 50 years on public radio i feel very blessed to have done all that we have done so far provide hope the proudest moment is yet to come but if i try to pick something i hope that it is that i am still here. in so many moments of my life loud. my favorite one was my laugh was too boisterous. he laughs too bows tremendously. my laugh was too much. my cadence was wrong. i spoke too fast. everything about me is too big for ic in knickknack this is national public radio. my style is so different. when i first started at npr the betting i wouldn't make it. pbs the betting wasn't