>>host: what is the proudest moment? >>guest: i hope it is yet to come. i am 50 years on public radio i feel very blessed to have done all that we have done so far provide hope the proudest moment is yet to come but if i try to pick something i hope that it is that i am still here. in so many moments of my life loud. my favorite one was my laugh was too boisterous. he laughs too bows tremendously. my laugh was too much. my cadence was wrong. i spoke too fast. everything about me is too big for ic in knickknack this is national public radio. my style is so different. when i first started at npr the betting i wouldn't make it. pbs the betting wasn't as high.

people didn't think it would work on pbs. charlie rose had done well for years and nobody expected for me to make it on pbs. long story short it would be i'm still here. >> host: 25 years or so you've been doing this. 17 books or so you ever written and edited. your different shows that you've done, what do you think you've accomplished? >> guest: i hope that what we do every day through our public radio and public television work is the same three things that say all the time. i hope, number one to challenge fellow citizens to reexamine the assumption they hold. we all bring assumptions to the table. there is nothing wrong with that. assumptions and various prejudices but i hope our work challenges people to reexamine the assumptions they hold. i hope our work helps expand their inventory of ideas. i hope our work allows americans to be introduced to each other. this is the most multi-cultural,

multky racial, multi-ethnic america ever. america is still so segregated in many ways. i hope the work we do have a conversation about what unites us rather than what divides us. >> host: in your 2009 book, accountable, making america as good as its promise, you say it is the job of politicians to make promises but the job of the people to elect them to make sure they keep them. you have a score sheet for then president-elect obama. how has he done on his score sheet? >> guest: depends on the issue. that is what is remarkable on this book. that is the first in a trilogy. we started with a covenants with black america. a book that came out and talked about the 10 issues most important to african-americans and what the next president how to do about these issues. that book came out long before the country ever heard of barack obama. this is the bush era when we knew the black agenda needed to

be taken more seriously. before hillary declared or john edwards, joe biden this book about black america came out. as a result of that book we had two presidential debates i was able to moderate with my network pbs. democrats met at howard university. those that showed up, morgan state, two black colleges in baltimore and d.c. respectively. we had the covenant in action, the second book in that trilogy. how do you take the issues and principles in the covenant and put, peter those issues into the action. that was the second book the covenant in action. the third book is accountable. senator obama or president obama winning. his face is on the cover the book. he is the guy who made these commitments and promises. this is book, accountable, put together what he said on the campaign and how we could keep store what he was doing. long story short. some things he has done well. other promises he has broken.

>> host: mr. smily, you were the really subject of a conversation on cnn. let's listen to this and get your response. >> tavis smiley talk about your b.e.t. interview and he said, the president should stop telling black people to wait. he should stop telling us that it takes time. he should stop saying it different than 50 years ago. go tell it to the parents of these dead children. i wonder does that come into you? does that hurt, they don't get me any feel like this is difficult to be president of all the united states and yet have so much expected of you? >> you know, if i spend too much time worrying about critics i would not be getting a lot of stuff done here. there is no reason for folks to be patient. i'm impatient. that's why in the wake of what happened in ferguson and what happened in new york, we've initiated task force in 90 days are going to be providing very specific recommendations. on the other hand, i think an

unwillingness to acknowledge that progress has been made cuts off the possibility of further progress. if critics want to suggest that america is inherently and irreducibly racist, then, why bother even working on it? i have seen change in my own life. so has this country. and those who would deny that i think actually foreclose the possibility of further progpress rather than advancing it. >> host: mr. smiley, where did that come from? guest guest i don't know where he got the notion to ask the president that question. let me say candy did a wonderful job at cnn 2years. i hate it when she announced her retirement here recently i was a big fan of the work. i was as surprised as anybody. i was in los angeles in my bed in l. my phone started ringing. wake up, candy is talking to the

president about you and your critique of him. i eventually got up and played it back to hear for myself. with all respect to the president. this is quite frankly a criticism that i grown tired of hearing, i believe it is our duty, our job our responsibility in this media business to hold all leaders accountable and just because you're my friend as barack obama has been for years, known him before he was ever in the united states senate, much less in the white house, he is my friend. whether you're my friend, whether you're an african-american, whether i vote for you once or twice, it matters not when it comes to doing my job of trying to hold you accountable to the things that you said you were going to do. i said it thousand times. i will say it again here today. great presidents are not born. great presidents are made. they have to be pushed into their greatness. there is no lincoln if frederick douglas isn't pushing him. if there is no fdr if eleanor is

not pushing him. there is to lbj if martin luther king jr. is not pushing him. when president calls me a critic. i take my big boy pill when i wake up during the day i can handle it. i don't see my other friends labeled obama critics. chuck todd on is asks tough questions. he is obama critic is george stephanopoulous an obama critic? our job is to ask difficult questions. it is almost reverse racism, that the black guy who critiques the black president continues to be called an obama critic as opposed to doing his job. i quite frankly don't like that but i'm dealing with it. >> host: you generated a quite a bit of conversation on your facebook page at booktv. this is typical comment. robert hill, jr., his picture of an african-american man. tavis smiley is smart

opportunist along with cornel west thought they should have special access to the president when he is black. when it didn't happen they turned against the president with all their success. >> guest: again, i have a first amendment right to free speech. i do not have a first amendment right not to be criticized. i express my point of view. i tell the truth as i see it. i acknowledge all the time i don't have monopoly of truth. there is a truth and a way to truth and i think peter, we're on the way to the truth. i don't believe i have a monopoly. but i believe the truth i know i'm obligated to tell and share that truth. what is wrong with our country most of us don't have the courage to say what it is you see. you have to say what it is you see. that means from time to time you criticize. my mother doesn't agree with me on everything i say. she loves me more than anybody the world. i'm happy with debate and conversation that kicks up as a result of what i say. that not the reason for saying. the reason for saying it to be

committed to a life of telling the truth as best i can. if the critics you know, come at me for having a different point of view. i'm okay with it. >> host: what do you mean by fail up? the cover of your 2011 book, fail up? >> guest: when i wrote that book it was on occasion of my 20th anniversary in the broadcast business. i've been at this a little while. i'm used to criticism. my gift to person who is have followed my career over 20 years, rather than we started talking about what the book was going to be, peter. rather than focus in on my 20 biggest moments. you asked me earlier of what my proudest moments was and i could have done a book of my 20 proudest moments. i decided to flip it. i started to write a book on 20 stupidest decision i ever done and learn from it. if those are honestest those are

success fell will tell you they learned much more from failure than they ever learned from their success and the same is true for me. i thought it might make a more sense to talk about a book that transparent and open. these are the dumb things i've done. these are mistakes i've made. these are the lessons. maybe if you read from this you avoid the things i learned from. >> host: from fail up, i was 40 in houston had a major panic attack. the details of that night are so tram tick forgive me for not wanting to relive them here. have you talked about what happened that night? >> guest: not much. i'm happy to do it with you and i appreciate the question i think. when i turned 40 as i mentioned i had a really difficult time. had a major panic attack. irony i was in houston with my family and friends to receive a huge honor on the day of my 40th birthday and we're all in houston together. i'm in the room.

and as the clock gets closer and closer to midnight, my turning 40 i start asphyxiating, i started throwing up all over the place. i couldn't breathe. i didn't know what was happening. my body was shutting down on me and crying and literally in the floor of the hotel room. and i just started praying. somehow i got through it and through tears, i eventually fell asleep. when i woke up it was after midnight and i was relieved that i had actually lived to see my 40th birthday. then, but within five minutes it occurred to me i was in houston but i live in los angeles. so where i live i really wasn't 40 yet. and believe it or not, as funny as it sound the whole process started all over again. the point was i was having a very, very difficult time turning 40. i did not believe i was going to make it to my 40th birthday. for years i lived this and

here's the reason why. dr. king saved my life when i was 12-year-old boy. he had long since been dead by the time i turned 12 but as age of 12 as i write about in my two other books dr. king literally saved my life. i wouldn't be here talking to you right now had it not been for dr. king coming to see me in a hotel room when i was a 12-year-old kid. hotel room, hospital bed. i was in a hospital bed when i was 12 and dr. king came to visit me and literally saved my life. since i've was 12, a devote day and rather thanking everything about the person i regard as the america's greatest democratic, small d america's greatest democratic public intellectual. my whole life is doing my small part my very small part trying to save the world for his legacy. what is the legacy? justice for all service to others and love that liberates

people. that's his that's his life as far as i'm concerned. so i have done my small part through my media work and philanthropic work to honor that legacy of the point is because i was so enveloped in the world of king for some reason it occurred to me after i survived that night it all came, it became clear to me that i was having trouble turning 40, given that my hero had been assassinated at 39. and it took me a few days to really work through this, talking to friend and others an even a therapist. i finally came to understand that i couldn't process the fact that dr. king is dead at 39 and somehow i'm being blessed to live to 40. what does this mean for the rest of my life that king didn't live as long as i had lived. i had a very difficult time turning 40. i just turned 50 a few months ago in september of 2014. fortunately i can report i did not have that kind of difficulty

turning 50. >> host: your most recent book, the death of a king, the real story of martin luther king, jr.'s final year. we'll talk about that. why were you in the hospital at age 12? >> guest: in one of my earlier texts, my memoir, what i know for sure, this is story painful to tell. i didn't want to tell it then. quite frankly don't like revisiting now. i will tell the story once i preface it by saying my father and i have the most wonderful relationship now a father and son can have. when i was 12, in stories in the book, my father lost his temper one night beat me so severely i was in the hospital for two weeks in traction. a pretty severe beating to have a 12-year-old kid in the hospital for a couple of weeks. while i was in the hospital, suffering and trying to recover from this pretty severe beating a member about my church came to me and gave me a exist and the gift was was a box of lp

recordings of king's speeches. turns out barry gordy of motown fame had the good sense to send and engineer around to follow dr. king to record king's speeches. of us think king gave only one speech in his whole life, i have a dream and only had one line in it, i want my children to live in a nation where they're not judged by color of their skin and content of their character. i can hear the audience saying it with me. we all thought he gave one speech with one line. in memphis gave two speeches. gave the mountaintop speech the night before he was assassinated. at best we know two king speeches he gave. barry ford did i sent an engineer to follow king and record many of his speeches. as time would have it, barry gordy put recordings out on lp. my deacon collected many of those lps for whatever reason, i don't know why this day, i never spoken to him about my love for king, adoration for

king, any of that, this deacon brought me this box and with you will at reporting and gave me as a gift. at 12 years of age in indiana you're from indiana founder of this network, brian lamb be is from indiana. we're hoosiers around here. indiana a black and white stage a whole lot more than white than black. it changed over the years. we weren't talking about king in my middle school or my high school. when this deacon brought me the gifts of recordings. i knew who king was but never studied dr. king. when i started listening to king's voice on the records peter and i heard love in his heart and hope in his soul, it brought me back to life as i said. it, king was talking to a nation about the power of love, about the power of forgiveness. that hatred was not an option. revenge was never going to work. he is talking to a nation about these ideals but might as well

have been talking to a 12-year-old kid about love and forgiveness and hatred and revenge. i heard king talking to me. so when i said earlier that he literally saved my life, when i heard his voice on all those records he did. from whatever on what i tried to do with all my work, radio tv print, philanthropy, try to make the world safe for his legacy. >> host: april 4th, 1968 what was dr. king's mind set what was the last day of his life like? >> guest: last day is quite remarkable. night before, we said a moment ago given the mountaintop speech at mason temple in memphis. the morning after he was feeling pretty good. he had some rough days in the last year. take as while to back up why this last year was so rough. his last year, excuse me brought him more difficult days than days of joy. the last day of his life, interestingly, ironically was a good day for king. story has been told many times

of he and andy young and others having a pillow fight in the hotel room earlier that day. his brother had come to visit him. he had come from louisville to memphis to visit him. he was around his family. earlier on that day he had conversation with his parents back in atlanta. talked to coretta back in atlanta. it was pretty good day until the moment he steps out on the balcony and is assassinated. it is a day that will, i will forever live in the memory of anybody alive at that time or old enough to remember it. i was a toddler at the time of his assassination. i certainly talked to enough people over the years who have it etched in their memory as my generation does where they were on 9/11. people feel the same way of the assassination of kennedy and assassination of other kennedy and assassination of king. >> host: of it voice smily why did he step out of the balcony? where was he going? >> guest: he was going to dinner

with billy kyle one of his friend's pretty muchers in memphis. they were speaking at a rally they were going to later after dinner preparing for a march on sanitation workers. the first one erupted in violence. it didn't work out. king promised to go back to memphis to lead a second march would not be fraught with violence he deplored. they were having a meeting dinner and speak to rally getting ready for the march. he steps on the balcony as we all know. he was hit with that assassin's bullet. but it was a rough year for king. that was april 4 '68. as you know, this book, death of a king starts one year to the day prior, april 4, 1967 when king gives the most controversial speech of his entire life. >> host: where was that? >> guest: new york. april 4th, '67 he is in new york city speaking at the riverside church in manhattan giving a speech called, beyond

vietnam. in that speech calls america the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today he had been on record being opposed to war. this is first time peter he is giving a major address to the nation condeming the war. he lays out in detail our relationship with vietnam our history with vietnam. lays it out, one of the rare times king actually reads entire text he was more of, he was orator obviously extraordinaire. his "i have a dream" speech he went off the script and started freestyling the i have a dream stuff. he was good off script. like some people who have use a teleprompter for everything they say. but dr. king gave the speech beyond vietnam. called america the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today. then talked about what he called the triple threat facing our democracy. that triple threat?

racism poverty militarism. ironically 50 years later same triple threat facing this country as we sit here now. racism poverty militarism. king was right. he made the comment and called america the great etf per vair i don't remember of violence in the world. everybody turned on him. i don't mean fox news. they weren't around then. liberal media. "new york times." "washington post." "time" magazine. media turned on him. then the white house turned on him. he and johnson worked together to pass the voting rights act civil rights act. this movie "selma" how johnson is portrayed in the movie. johnson worked with him to pass that seminal piece of legislation. white house worked against him being against the president and war in vietnam. last poll taken in his life, "harris poll" found nearly 3/4 of the american people thought he was irrelevant. so why america turns on him.

inside black america that number is almost 60, six zero of black folk thought he was irrelevant. i don't mean black folk. roy wilkins and naacp came out against him. whitney young and urban league come out of against him. karl rowe wan cams out against him. ralph bunch another nobel laureate, peace prize laureate comes out against him. i can't quote on c-span what thurgood marshall, supreme court justice thurgood marshall, about dr. king about him in that era. they turn on martin. media, white house, white folk, black foaming. that is the live he has to navigate. talking about racism and poverty and militarism. he dice broke. last year of his life can't get a book deal. can't get a paid speech. disinvited to the white house. disinvited to black churches. this is the last nile mile of the way king has to walk all by

himself. when martin takes that bullet a year later same today. >> april this '67. killed april 4, six sy eight. when he is killed on the ball conany peter, believes and dice, imagine this martin dies believing everything and everybody has turned on him. cost most shifted against him. now five decade later martin was right and everybody else was wrong. but that is not the way that he got up out of here. >> host: neither tweet, what is the one thing thaw learned about dr. king that you dipped know before? >> guest: great question. king, i can ever ever not acknowledge this king has three brilliant historians who have done the heavy lifting to bring us his life and legacy. and death of a king, which is the first book and only book ever focused just on the last year of his life. there is no book that focuses just on april 4 '67 to '68 what the last year is like is about

the dr. king we don't know. taylor branch. david and claiborne carson. love them all. without them doing heavy lifting the story of his king's life and work and witness wouldn't be known. the thing that most surprised me. and i knew most of this from years of research, but it is remarkable peter to consider that king has all of this hell and all of this hate coming at him. there are fbi spies inside of his organization. his treasurer mr. harrison is on the fbi payroll. the photographer shooting him ernest withers, is on the fbi payroll. i could go on. he is catching hell and hate from the outside. being spied on and abandoned quite frankly from the inside by his own people. and never in all of the hours and hours and hours of audiotape, all the hours of surveillance tape they have on dr. king not one time do we ever hear king contesting the

humanity of any other human being. not demonizing, not denigrating it is just remarkable for somebody to be infused to be filled with that kind of love. we live in a world now where so many people are not as advertised. can you imagine? i shudder to think in my life what they might have heard me saying if i had been under surveillance 24/7 but to know that they have all this tape on martin and who he was to us, who he was public was same person in private. that is not to say he was a perfect servant. i'm clear in the book, death of a king, does not shy away from his personal failings. he was a public servant. not a perfect servant. wore his book and witness, his message of love was concerned martin was consistent all the way through. it is beautiful thing five decade later to discover this person was who you thought he

was. >> host: good afternoon welcome to booktv, in depth program. one author. his or her body of work, three hours, and your phone calls tweets and comments. 202 air code 748-8200. if you helive in eastern ten trillion time zones. 748-2881. go ahead tile in. make a comment on facebook page. facebook.com slash booktv. booktv/org, make a comment via twitter. @booktv is our handle. tavis smiling edited several more books. judgely his books. just a thought. smiley report, came out in 199 f hard left, straight talk about the wrongs of the right. 1996, on the air. best of tavis smiley on tom

joiner morning show. 1998. doing what is right how you fight for what you believe. 2,000, keeping the faith stories of love, courage maling and hope from black america. on air best of tavis smile on the tom joyner show. 2003. never mind. best advice i ever received. came out in 2006. autobiography. what i know for sure. author of growing up in america also came out in 2006. accountable, which we discussed making america as good as its promise, 2009. fail up, 20 lessons on building success. came out three years ago. too important to fail, saving america's boys, also came out three years ago. the rich and the rest of us, a poverty manifesto 2012. death of a king, about martin luther king's final year, came out this year. and coming out next year, or this year i guess.

2015 my journey with maya. what is that? when is that coming out? >> guest: that is first time that cover has been seen. they're tweaking it. this was a maya angelou this is me in my 20s, holding hands and we sat and talked in ghana. i was just a kid maya an gell lou, invited me on a troupe to ghana for two weeks with my friend. we all went to ghana a couple of weeks. i can't begin to tell you how being brought into her world as a young 20 something fundamentally changed my life. maya angelou was the first person first world-class intellectual, cornel west is dear friend of mine and dear brother, and book that you mentioned was coauthored with him. long before i met cornel west, another world class intellectual, i knew maya

angelou. she welcomed me into her world. she became a surrogate mother to me. i became one of her sons. she had one son guy and i became one of her many sons. the book is really kind akin to tuesdays with more riff if you know that book. about a mother, son relationship. what this 28 year friendship with maya angelou was like with me. the experiences we had traveling the world. experiences we had staying at her house, she visiting with my. i have more public conversation with maya angelou than anybody on my public radio and public tv programs. the meals she cooked for me things she talked to me and things she exposed to me and the fact that this world class intellectual would let me disagree with her and wanted to have my point of view. i am raised in a very strict, you know, pentacostal, by the cook religious family. i'm one of, one of 10 kids. and you have to have a lot of

discipline and some strict rules in that family and i was taught in my family, young people are to be heard not to be, to be listened, young people should listen, rather than speak. and my point of view was not always valued when i was a kid. the rules were very different. imagine, i could get exposed to somebody like maya angelou who well comes me interrogating her welcomes my point of view. this is an adult like my grandmother, who doesn't mind me arguing, pushing her back on her. man, did we have disagreements. this book talks about good times, there were almost good times. we disagreed on clarence thomas nominated for supreme court. we disagreed on a number of issues. there were some movies that we disagreed about things she starred in that we disagreed about. when barack obama was running for president she started out supporting hillary clinton because she is dear friend of

clintons. we recall giving wonderful speech on the morning of mr. clinton's inauguration. very good friend of clintons. supported hillary when hillary first ran in 2008. after hillary lost she became a supporter of barack obama. the obama campaign at one point getting a little testy about my holding them accountable. they played the trump card. had maya call me one day. in the book you will hear the story what maya said to me and back and forth we had about barack obama and other issues. that book comes out on april 7th. i will be on tour for that around time of mother's day. >> host: tavis smiley, hough did you at 20 something get to know maya angelou? guest guest i mentioned that i had a couple friend knew her and. julianne malvo. i love dr. malvo and dr. ruth love who was the superintendent of schools in both chicago and

oak oakland. somehow i got connected to dr. malvo and dr. love and ended up on this trip to africa and the rest they say is history. >> host: where did you go to college? >> guest: university ever mississippi. my father is from georgia. my father was stationed at a air force base in biloxi at keesler air force base. he is in mississippi at air force base. my mother lives in mississippi. the two of them met. the rest they say is history. we got transferred to air force base in indiana. through another long story my parents had 10 kids, although four were my cousins we brought in as family. there are 10 kids in my family. eight boys, two girls. our family got to be so large after my mother's sister was murdered, we took in her four kids. that is how they became, 10 of

us, pam, phyllis paul, patrick all four ps, became to live with us. our family became a family of 10 kids. that is how i was raised. it was a economic hardship for military to move us around like other military families. we didn't move around much. we pretty much stayed in indiana. that is good crop of my family. almost all of them were there early last year when i was honored with my star on hollywood walk of fame. first time all of them, they have been out various times to visit. that was one time all of my siblings my mom my dad all came out for the ceremony last year. it was a great moment in my life. >> host: what i know for sure, my story of growing up in america, 2006, you dedicate to phyllis. why? >> guest: phyllis is one of my sisters in the that photo. i mentioned earlier in answer to your question about the beating when i was 12, my sister phyllis, and myself were both in that situation. so both of us were accused of something in our church that we hadn't done. quite frankly the minister of

our church just got it wrong. i don't want to call him a liar. he is deceased now. i don't feel comfortable doing that but he was wrong in his assessment of what we were accused of having done and so he got in front of the entire church stand up in front of the entire con agation chastising my sister and me and goes in on my parents. it was just an ugly situation in front of the entire church. never should have happened. at no point did we get called in for conversation what had happened were we in the room when it happened it is so surreal i can't understand how as an adult you stand up in front of entire church congregation and accuse two kids of doing something that, i mean, anyway. the point is, that it was an embarassment to my family. obviously my father was very involved in our church. lost his temper and phyllis and i had beatings of our lives. so when i went to the hospital, that is phyllis right above my shoulder. that is me on front row in tan

brown suit. that is phyllis over my shoulder. phyllis and i were two who got if trouble. both of us were in the hospital at the same time. i love all my siblings. phyllis has a special place if know heart we shared that sort of tragic moment together. we're in hospital recovering together. as i mentioned in book, because the incident was so, so heinous my father got arrested. we had to go to court. it was all in the local newspaper. it was an ugly situation. both of us were taken out of our family. both of us sent to two different foster homes. long story short after being away for a few months i really, i was upset and frankly as i said in the book at time. hated my parents for what happened. hated my dad for what he did. hated my mom not stopping him. thankfully all these years later we got through. that all wonderful family. you saw them at my star last year. we got through that. at the moment i hated my parents but i missed my brothers an

sisters. i'm oldest. i really missed them. the foster family that i was staying with lived close enough to my house that i could actually see them out in the field playing as i drove past in the car with my foster family. i could see my siblings out in the fields playing i would cry looking out the window. after a few months i asked the court to let me go back to my family. i would have to figure out to navigate through all the hate stored up in me. i figured that out over time. my brothers and sisters i missed most. my sister phyllis went to another foster family and never came back. at age of 12 i lost phyllis. she went away. her foster family lived much farther away. i didn't see phyllis much until we got out of high school. got reconnected. that incident set my life in one direction, peter but sent her life in another direction. for me, when i got introduced to dr. king as i intimated earlier it allowed me to see that there

was a a role to play in the world. i didn't quite figure all that life until my years later meet maya angelou, and figured out i had to find my own voice and find my own way in the world. tavis, we find our path by walking it. we find our path by walking it. king lets me know there is a calling for me in the world. maya angelou helps me figure out what that calling is. phyllis on the other hand had her spirit broken by that beating, peter. it broke her spirit and she became crack addict. and had a number of kid out of wedlock. just had a very, very difficult life for a lot of years. i'm happy to report that while it took a long time, a lost rehab, a lot of work, a lot of money, a lot of patience, phyllis eventually went to nursing school and eventually graduated and she is doing okay now but it took a long time for her to turn that corner. i just have always felt

particular peculiar love for her. that is why i dedicated that book to phyllis. >> host: is she sober today? >> guest: she is sober. doing fine. watching right now. hi phyllis. >> host: this is what you write what were daily events for most other students were revelations to me. i was amazed, for example at my first trip to movie theater, nor will i forget the movie i saw "live on the sunset strip" or its star, richard pryor. >> guest: very strict pentacostal family and in my church we were forbidden to go to movies. we were forbidden to secular music. i couldn't listen to the jackson 5 or other stars of the day i wanted to hear. we couldn't listen to secular music or go to movies. couldn't play sports. very strict pentacostal upbringing. wasn't until i got to college that i experienced things most people experience every day.

first time i walked into movie theater on the campus of indiana university on indiana after avenue. i didn't know how to buy the ticket. i didn't want to go with anybody first time. because i was too embarrassed to tell my friends at college i didn't ever go to movie theater. i was surprised sold popcorn and other goodies and sit back in plush sheet seat and big screen. see richard pryor live on the sunset strip my first movie considering pryor's language and comedy. richard pryor i come to appreciate him all these years later perhaps, more so that an dr. king, which is another conversation, richard pryor was freest black men i ever known. he was a black man free enough to speak and live his truth. muhammad ali probably shares that same bill. just free, just a free black man. i always aspired to be as free as i can be. freedom by any other definition is ability to tell the truth

even when you catch hell for telling it. you have to be a free black man or free white man or anybody be willing to speak the truth whatever the consequences are you deal with it. that is ultimate freedom. i respect pryor for that. second movie was "purple rain" with prince. i remember these things vividly. because i never had a chance to experience those things until i got to college. >> host: back at iu here, the death of denver smith galvanized the black student population of ui -- iu. who is that? >> guest: since i've been 12 i've been learning everything i can about dr. king. i read everything i can get my hand on. i've gone to any library for miles around. anything about king i was soaking it up like a sponge, so much so when i got to high school i was on the speech team and everywhere i went for four years on the speech team i would win all of these speaking contests and i enter vfw contests and rotary contests.

i was always delivering one of king's speeches and winning having a lot of fun sharing king's message. so i had king in my spirit but i hadn't been tested as to whether or not i could show that kind of love that kind of compassion and step out front when the truth needed to be told in a very difficult situation. one thing to have imbibed all of that. another thing to actually step out and lead on those kind of king principles. to your question, my friend denver smith who was on the football team at indiana university, shot and killed, the black denver smith was shot and killed by some white cops, not unlike when we see today unarmed black man killed by unarmed cops, this happened to me in college. i know this eric garner story. i know this mike brown story. i know this trayvon martin story. i lived this as so much more in indiana university around my friend denver smith was killed. so we galvanized ourselves as

student leaders around the killing of denver smith. and we couldn't accept the fact that denver had been shot inordinant number of times in his back. yet the police said they shot him in self-defense. how do you shoot somebody in self-defense in the back and he was unarmed? very difficult situation for me to lose a friend so early and to to be tied in that way. but denver smith was the moment and incident in my life. everyone of us has those moments. i hope it is not for those watching the death of a friend. everyone has the moments when our courage and our conviction and our commitment and our character are going to be tested and i hope that in those moments that i will always be ready to step forward but that denver smith moment was first time i was confronted how do you handle a crisis and use these kingian principles of love and

non-violence and protest and pressure. how do you use the stuff you've been reading tavis? all the stuff you're reciting in these speeches. you will be tested at a moment as student leader in indiana university. denver's wife and kids still live in the chicago area. he was married at a young age an a daughter who again i have seen over the years but it was a moment of deep sorrow for me when i was just a young kid. >> host: tavis smiley, when year did you graduate from u-iu? >> guest: i went to indiana from '82 to '86. i went for internship with mayor tom bradley of los angeles. i went back to finish up my degree. there is funny story i tell in my books. i went to indiana university from '82 to '86. when i say i finished i left indiana university a couple credits short of my degree. and long story again very short, i keep saying that phrase, i'm

trying to make most of our time, this is one of 20 mistakes i made in my life i wrote in the "failed up" book, in my senior year in indiana to make the point i got into a dispute with one of my professors. the dispute was so serious that the dean of my school had to settle the dispute. the dean settled the dispute in my favor but suggested to me that might be wise to leave this particular class and go into another session. so there were other professors teaching same class. tavis i think this will be fraught with so much tension the rest of this semester, this incident happened early on. if you go to another class right now, you can graduate and she won't have to see you every day. you ain't got to see her and put this moment behind us. my little arrogant, arrogant

narcissistic self at the time said, no no, no. it was her mistake. i was right. she was wrong. you ruled for me and she is not running me out of this class. he said, okay, have it your way. i stayed in the class. i have no excuse. i flunked. i just didn't, my last semester in indiana i didn't go to class didn't study wasn't paying attention. i flunged that class. it was funnier than that because we got to the end of the semester here is the sad part about it, peter i shouldn't tell the story on television. so embarrassing. >> host: if you don't, i will read it. >> guest: in that case i will tell it to you. what is so funny this was pass-fail class. all i needed was d minus. how do you fail a class when you only need a d pass or fail? i didn't need c plus or b. it was pass or fail. i was so bad because i was arrogant and wouldn't go to class, this, that and other. comes time for the final. i know i'm getting f in this

class. doing all-nighter trying to prepare for the last exam. if i really, really aced this last exam i can get out of here with d minus. i have to get close to 100 on exam which i know isn't going to happen but i'm trying real hard. so i do horrible on the exam as you can imagine. so then same teacher who i had gotten into with and went to the dean and screamed on her and got her in all kind of trouble this is same professor i had to go back to now beg her somehow to give me opportunity to get a passing grade to get out of this class and graduate from indiana. and she looked at me with that cheshire cat grin, oh, mr. smiley, oh the semester is over now and you're back in here asking me to help you when you failed in this class? okay. she is just laughed at me. i knew what that meant. so i had already been given a job, offered a job i had gone out earlier to intern for a

semester and back to indiana to finish my degree. got into the trouble in last messer of school even though i have a job waiting for me in los angeles. i had to make a decision. do i stay here nor another semester and take this class all over again and or go to l.a. take the job i've been offered. i went to l.a., took the job. i can say that i never lied about having my degree because they knew i was going back to finish up. i went back to l.a. took the job. nobody asked me, did you graduate? the truth the matter is that years went by before i finally got back and finish that course to get my degree. it was funny because so many years passed before i actually did this, by the time i finally finished the course and actually got my degree, two years later indiana gave me honorary doctorate degree. they weren't going to do that until i finished that one course. they wanted to honor me, my broadcast career done well and i

had written books all that kind of stuff. they wanted me to finish the course. i literally buckle down, finish the course as an adult if was a funny story. >> host: there was counselor who wouldn't retire. >> guest: counselor, miss dorothy, if she is watching now hello, miss dorothy. she is good friend of mine. i was out of indiana so long. i took job for tom brad limit i was offered money man. i hadn't forgotten about it. it was in back of my head. ironic because i'm eldest of all these kid i had brothers and sisters who i put through college. i worked really hard to get them through school. brother graduated from moore house. another from indiana. i was paying to help send my brother, and sisters to college so they could graduate. so my siblings who were younger than me technically got their college degrees before i did. i had a counselor at indiana my counselor called me every year, tavis, you have to finish this course.

she found -- hounded me every year. because she knew i was that close to finishing degree. every year, peter she would call me, new school year. i have can take it by correspondence in los angeles. correspondence class. one class, tavis. she called me every year. and hounded me to take that class. year one went by, year two year three, four, five, so many years went buy. one of the years she called me and one of the books i read, tavis i'm retiring end of this year. i am not going to retire until you finish this course. and it hit me so hard that she loved me enough to call me, i am in los angeles. she is a counselor in my school at indiana university, 2 or 3,000 miles away and every year she would call me to hound me to finish what i started. reminded me so often peter, my grandmother, we call big mama. big mama, said to me, tavis, a once a task you have begun

never finish until it is done. be a labor, great or small do it well or not at all. i can hear my grandmother in back of my head who had been de deceased at that point. finish what you started. miss dorothy called me every year. it was powerful for me in my life this really shouldn't matter. but i want to make a point quickly, in my life there are two people who expected more out of me than i expected out of my self, both of them interestingly and ironically happened to be white woman. my second grade teacher who i loved and dedicated my books too, vera graft. my second teacher god bless her soul, died in her 90s. my second grade teacher said in class, only black kid in indiana, in all white class she would not tolerate me giving up. there was something about being only black in that class that made me feel inferior. that was my own internalized

inferiority. she read that and she said to me one today. >> hear it in my ear right now at my little desk, tavis i expect as much out of you than anybody else in this class and you, young man you will have to quit quitting. you have to quit quitting. you're quitting on me. i know you're capable of doing this. this is white woman in second grade, who expected as much out of me as everybody else in my class. never forgot that. fast forward to years later in college. here is mice dorothy calling me in l.a., you got to finish this degree. she hounded me on that. there are a number about stories i can ask about. that is smart artist. they will get it. >> host: very quickly. we'll take calls. hang on, i apologize. you brought up big ma'ammama. i was on television debating jack kemp, bob dole. kemp is smart. former buffalo bills quarterback

who relishes verbal contact. our exchanges was sharp and caustic. as our heated dialogue went on, back in kokomo, big mama made her way into the kitchen where my mother was watching. oh, my god we got to get in the car and get tavis before they come after him. >> guest: my grandmother was afraid when she walked into the kitchen and saw me on television, big mama died in her 90s. born and raised in mississippi at the height of segregation. big mama walked into the kitchen and saw her grandson on television sassing a white man. she didn't understand that i was being paid to have this debate with jack kemp on national television. i was a commentator. he was a commentator. we're getting paid to do this. she saw me on tv sassing a white man. this is one of the funniest

stories of my life. my mother called me, tavis, when you get this message, please call home. i could hear it in my mother's voice a bit of, she was frantic but she was also jeff y'all. i couldn't understand, why is she sounding frantic and jovial at the same time. jovial because she thought it was funny but frantic because my grandmother was taking it so seriously. to call home after he got off the tv set to let big mama know i was okay. she was not going stopping crying an saying they would kill me to sass a white man. this is from mississippi where they killed emmett till where he was killed whistling at white woman. she is scared me sassing this white man on television will get me killed. she wants my mother to get in the car, drive from indiana to d.c. to come get me and stop me from sassing jack kemp. i love jack kemp.

he was a great guy. >> host: from your 2000 book, doing what is right, are you willing to make a scene, cause a stink, shake,able and rouse? if you plan to be on the front lines as opposed to helping out in more support role you will be operating on the cutting-edge of change. you must be willing to step outside of the box be willing to holler to be heard. let's go to calls for tavis smiley. our author this month. we'll begin in baltimore. thanks for holding. you're on the air with tavis smiley on booktv. >> caller: good afternoon, friend. mr. smiley, i'm big fan of yours for probably, 10 15 years. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: since your bet days, actually. i love your work. you're excellent. i was in school and i heard you were coming to washington. i left my school, my class just to be with you so you could sign my book for your daughter, mr. smiley. mr. smiley, i'm really, really

disappointed a bit what you've done with the president. like you, i was against mr. obama and voted for mrs. clinton during that time. but over the time, but over the time we have to come to conclusion that barack obama is the president of the united states. he is not a king. he can not say let there of course lights and there will be lights. he can not mr. smiley. barack obama can not say okay, stop discriminating against black young men. like you i'm from africa. you were born here but i'm from africa. but i went to school. i never chain smoked or any of that sort. even supported mr. mccain. >> host: i think we got your point. let's get an answer from tavis smiley. >> guest: the short answer is, i don't, i don't, i'm not a gangsta. the phrase he used against i'm not against barack obama.

i supported him in 2008. primarily because i believed then that supporting him would open up progressive possibilities, politically socially economically and culturally. i haven't seen a lot of evidence as of yet. that was my hope that progressive possibilities might be open by supporting him electing barack obama as president. i'm not against him as i said earlier. my job is to hold him and all of our leaders accountable. i hope to first live a life of responsibility before i talk about accountability of other people. ultimately about holding people accountable. but i'm not against barack obama. >> host: john in las vegas. hi john. >> caller: good morning. happy new year. >> guest: happy new year. >> caller: tavis congratulations on your well earned and deserved success. in your book "death of a king." fbi's emanity and infiltration of martin luther king and j. edgar hoover referred to him as

bizarro, my question, i will start what about your coretta king's successful civil case against the fbi and the federal government? what are your thoughts about dick gregory and mark lane's wonderfully researched book, code name sorrow -- "zorro". and after coretta successful case against the fbi why did not thousands and thousands of blacks take to the streets and protest for the way they did of the sad case of mr. garland? probably the most successful entertainer, political activist, who was black in this country was paul robeson. why is it that very successful blacks like spike lee and -- >> host: let's bring this to conclusion? >> caller: not fund ad movie

about paul robeson. >> guest: a lot of good stuff there. two quick answers. with regard to your question about mrs. king and my friend dick gregory and others who have done a lot of work on the assassination of dr. king, this book, death of a king. not about the assassination. from april 4th six sy seven, to april 4, six sy eight where the book ends. that very powerful epilogue. the book does not cover the assassination. i do not believe james early ray acted alone in the killing of dr. king, number one. number two, i believe our government was complicit in killing of dr. king. i leave it at that night. with regard to the comment about paul reock son, i don't know what spike has on his docket any other director who could do a great film about paul robeson i till tell you this. i concur with you wholeheartedly, paul robeson may very well be the most underappreciated american that we've ever known. as many as i say dr. king may be the greatest american we ever

produced. that is my own assessment, maybe greatest american ever, i believe paul robeson is most underappreciate, undervalued americans ever. we were talking about my 28 year friendship with maya angelou my book coming out my journey with maya coming out later this year, i think she is america's most renaissance woman in black. i challenge you to think about this with me. i can't think of another black woman who has been more after renaissance woman than maya angelou. done some different things, done them well. a lot of great black females but i don't know anybody more a renaissance american woman in history than maya angelou. i feel same way about paul robeson. those would be my persons ultimate renaissance persons male and female. we'll see what people think about that, peter. >> host: carol from memphis

emails, what are your thoughts about the movie "selma"? >> guest: i saw it a couple weeks ago. it was a good movie. i enjoyed the movie. i'm a big chagrined and a bit concerned about all of the pushback that is the movie is now starting to get. just this morning i appeared on this week on abc while here in town. i got off the air flipping channels and caught a good conversation that my friend bob schieffer had on "face the nation" this morning about the movie, "selma" and how it portrays lyndon johnson. joseph califano, written a piece, head of lbj museum in texas written a lot. a lot of people, front page of "new york times" a few days ago big article in the washington post few days ago. there is a lot of media attention, social media attention, print media attention, being given to whether or not the movie portrays lbj as he ought be

portrayed. i sense now there are people coming at this movie awfully hard now. they're going to do what they can to make it difficult for this movie to gain any traction and difficult for this movie to win any awards, even though its director is already regarded now, already now in the history books as first black woman to be nominated for a best director award for the golden globes and may be nominated for academy awards. this fight is going to continue for the next few weeks as we get into the awards season about whether or not the picture accurately portrayed depicts what happened around the voting rights act and sell past let me say this very quickly. in hollywood where i live in l.a. movies always take license. they do it all the time number one. so this is not the first movie to do it. i loved "selma" just like i lovered "lincoln." i one critique of mr. spielberg. when you see the movielink con talk about historical accuracy

the movie find lincoln fighting to save the union and it finds lincoln on the right side of the slavery question but any of us who know our history know that abraham lincoln started out on the wrong side of the slavery question. he was wrong bit initially. frederick douglass helped get him right on this issue. lincoln starts out wrong on slavery and eventually gets to the right position and does the right thing to save the union. but that movie never ever pointed out that lincoln initially was wrong on slavery. that is major major fact i wish they put in "link conn." we -- "lincoln." we can tee debate the historical license of "selma" that it needs to tell. i hope we don't treat it differently other movies that took same kind ever license to tell the story. >> host: joseph, a delphi,

maryland. good afternoon to you sir. >> caller: good day. mr. smiley, how are you? >> guest: how are you? >> caller: give you references, ghana, anthony nuclear alliance.org, a book called. the bomb, the president and his daughters, nuclear primer on all issues of nuclear weapons. >> guest: okay. >> caller: and power. 10 million people died in congo where uranium just recently, not over yet. the war over uranium where we got uranium for first nuclear weapons. >> guest: okay. >> caller: hope you read principles on the air. written by greatest generation. two veterans, greatest work number of principles. there is currently highest law of the land. geneva convention despite -- >> host: joseph, where are we going with this? did you have a question or

recommendations? >> caller: i'm all for president obama and what he is doing. i voted for him and hope we go forward. >> host: that is joseph in a delphi maryland. >> guest: more stuff my for my reading list. i appreciate it. >> host: john, sarasota, florida, question for tavis smiley. >> caller: good afternoon. tavis, can you hear me? >> guest: you're fine, sir. >> caller: i have two to three quick comments. first i want to tell you being sincere, on my little table right away from this telephone here, i made a tape of your appearance on booktv where you gave about a hour lecture on your book about dr. king. >> host: lorraine motel in memphis that we covered it. >> caller: right. i was so inspired by that. our family -- made a tape of that. will send it to my brother. >> guest: it thank you. >> caller: that speech and that book obviously obviously his life but that one hour speech

that you gave, that lecture that you gave was very, very helpful and very inspiring. >> guest: thank you. . . >> caller: you and dr. west go around, get people registered to vote. nothing's going to change in this country until we get people to vote in this country. >> host: thank you, john, in

sarasota, we will leave it there. tavis smiley. >> guest: john, first of all thank you for your kind words and i couldn't agree more on the issue of voting. my concern these days is that too many fellow citizens see that our system is broken, that it is dysfunctional, that this town where i sit right now, washington is bought and bossed by big money and big business. dr. king said many years ago when he was living that the negro in the south at the time could not vote and the negro in the north had nothing for which to vote. i think a lot of americans now, never mind black people i think a lot of americans now feel they have not much to vote for and that's why the approval rating of congress so low and voter turnout is so low. people are looking for a system that they know is bankrupt. how do we establish a system that works on behalf of the american people that the american people think is worthy

of being supported? now, i'm the first to tell you and admit, obviously, this is the system that we have. and so we've got to work inside this system. and so voting is clearly something that i support, but this is a broken system that we have here in washington, and so much needs to be done starting with meaningful campaign finance reform to make this system work again for the american people. and i thank you for your phone call. >> host: and that caller or referenced, john referenced tavis smiley's appearance at the rain motel in memphis this past december. if you go to booktv.org, you can watch that. go up in the upper left-hand corner, and you'll see a search function. just type in tavis smiley, and you'll be able to watch that program online when you want. that caller also referenced this book "the rich and the rest of us: a poverty manifesto." tavis smiley and cornel west. in this book talking about race to the top education dollars. cornel west says to the secretary of education "i know you are all break dancing over this $4 billion initiative but

afghanistan gets $4 billion every day." >> guest: yeah. dr. west makes a powerful point in this book that we co-authored. and his point was and still is that education ought not be a race, education in america ought to be a right. and he is right about that. education ought not be a race, it ought to be a right. so i have my critiques, and dr. west has misery teaks of -- critiques of the race to the top program. the point he makes is very clear, that we put money out for the things that matter to us. we go back to dr. king's triple threat facing our democracy 50 years ago, still facing our democracy now; racism, poverty and demille tarrism. but the only one of those three that gets the money is demille terrorism. we won't put the money where we need to put it. one of the things i'm going to be doing a lot of year peter -- so i'm glad you raised that -- using the hashtag

2016povertydebate, one of the things i'm pushing for a lot i've already started talking about, this is my goal between now and november 2016 or fall of 2016 by the time we get to september of 2016 and the presidential debate commission sanctions those three debates that we're going to have between the two final candidates whoever they may be and as enticing and as juicy as it is for us in the media to want a bush/clinton rematch, i'm not sure it's going to turn out that way. i think there's a wonderful piece in "the new york times" today that lays out in the times in this morning why both hillary and jeb aren't going to make it. it's a fascinating read that i saw earlier in this morning in today's new york times. having said that i think he's right. i just don't see both of them making it to the end, but i could be wrong about that. the point is that whoever the nominees are in 2016 we need to have for the first time ever peter, in this country one of

those three presidential debates to focus exclusively on the issue of poverty and income inequality. in all the research i have done, i can't find a single presidential debate ever, ever that focused for 90 minutes exclusively on the issue of poverty and income inequality. if it is as i believe it is, the defining issue of our time, why can't we have one of those three debates that focuses exclusively on poverty and income inequality? and what the next president of the united states is going to do about this issue that threatens our very democracy, an issue that is now a matter of national security. so that hashtag is hashtag 2016povertydebate, and that's my mission for the next year and a half, two years, how do we get one of these debates to be about the issue of poverty. >> host: where did the cornel west/tavis smiley friendship begin? >> guest: i was a kid working for tom bradley. at the time i was on loan to, speaking of dr. king, i was on

loan to the southern christian leadership conference of greater los angeles. sclc, as you know is the only organization king founded in his lifetime. so i was on loan from the mayor's office to sclc l.a. to work on the very first-ever king holiday celebration in the city of l.a. so sclc was in charge of it, i was on loan from the mayor's office to help them organize this first annual king celebration in the city of l.a., and i was in the office one day, and it turns out dr. west was good friends of the executive director of that organization and he was in town and popped in to say hello to his friend who was my boss a guy named mark thomas who is now the most powerful black man in the state of california. he's the head he's the chair of the l.a. county board of supervisors now which makes him the most powerful black man running all of l.a. county. he was my boss then a great elected official in california now.

he and dr. west were good friends, so west popped in to see him, and here he walks in. you know him when you see him; the afro, the three-piece black suit. he walks in the door and i said oh, lord -- [laughter] oh it's the big one. elizabeth. i looked up here's cornel west. i read this guy in college, this is my man! and cornel west walks in the door. and i've been asked this question many times, the person who i admire the most who is dead would be dr. king but the person for most of my life who i've admired the most is dr. west. it's not just that he's bright but he has a usable intellect. there are a lot of smart folk in the academy, but to have the kind of love and concern and care for everyday people and to use that intellect in service to them, you know, and dr. west and i don't always agree on everything. we're not lock step on everything. we have our own minds obviously, our own points of view. but the love he has for everyday people is palpable, and went you're in his space, that kind

of jumps on you as you well know. >> >> host: paul's in alexandria, virginia. hi paul. >> caller: hi, hello. i've been a follower of tavis smiley for some time and i really like his interviewing style. but since his association with mr. west he's become more of an anarchist and a single-minded thinker and frankly -- >> host: paul, what do you mean by single-minded? what do you mean by single-minded? >> caller: he's, like, arrogant and narcissistic are his own words there which aptly describe him and always an angry man now. he's never trying to get anybody to appeal to their reason, he's always just overwhelming them with endless verbiage. >> guest: well, again, people are entitled to their opinions. i'm glad that my bosses at pbs don't think i'm an angry black man who is espousing hate every night. i wouldn't be on pbs for 12

years, but you're entitled to your point of view, and i'll keep working on trying to be a better man. that's my commitment every year so thank you for your critique. >> host: this is tom joyner talking about you, if i'm the hardest working man in radio tavis is the most talkative. and since he talks fast, he has more time to get more words in he can say more intelligent things in three minutes than most people can say in 30. i'm just afraid he's going to blow out his voice box. >> guest: yeah. i've done that a couple times. i've had a couple surgeries on my voicebox. it's a challenge but that's actually very -- it's a legitimate concern tom had because when you do radio or television as much as i do and as much as you do, you really do have to be concerned about your instrument. i love musical artists particularly, and i'm always fascinated by people who i've seen go deep into their career, and they still have their instrument. there are so many people that come to mind. tony bennett. tony bennett's like 90 years old

now, and tony bennett can hit that note and hold it just like he did 40 years ago but it's how you protect the instrument you have. there's so many great artists who i feel that way about. over the years i've actually learned -- tom's joke aside -- how to manage this thing so it will take me from here to checkout. >> host: tavis smiley, you used to do kind of a state of black america, tavis smiley presents for years that we covered here on c-span. is that still happening? >> guest: it isn't at the moment, and that's a good question peter. i did it for, like, a dozen years, and it was one of the most-watched things on c-span every year. you'd tune in on a saturday in february, and all day long right here on c-span we would have the biggest and brightest minds, best minds in black america dissecting the issues of the day. usually a morning panel, afternoon panel and all on c-span and i'm so appreciative to c-span for the dozen years we did that of carrying it every year. the short answer is when barack obama got elected, you know,

there was a different point of view about whether or not those kinds of conversations were necessary or needed. and so in truth we had one the first year that he was in office, and after that -- and, again, this is part of the critique. we're going to have a serious -- since you raised it, i'll respond. we're going to have a serious come to jesus meeting in black america, a serious come to jesus meeting when he's out of office. with all due respect to the persons who have called and offered their points of view callers have their point of view i have my point of view and then there are the facts. and these are the facts. the data is very clear and the white house can't even argue this. and they haven't tried to argue it. when barack obama is out of office, the day is going to indicate as it -- the data is going to indicate as it does now that black people have lost ground in every single leading economic indicator category. you don't believe me? go to the kerr win institute at the ohio state university, go to the pew research data.

all the data indicates right now that if his presidency ended today, the data indicates that black folk have lost ground in every leading economic indicator category. now, do i blame barack obama for all of that? no, that's not my point. my point is though that in the era of obama, his most loyal constituency has lost ground in every category. and i believe that it happened to some degree because of the deference of so-called black leaders to the white house. too many black leaders have been silenced and sidelined in the era of obama so that nobody wants to offer a critique. nobody wants to say anything. and i get some of that deference. he's got a headwind coming at him in the right. he's got obstructionism he's facing every single day. there's so much on his plate. they're hating on him, they're trying to kill him, secret service won't protect him like they should. i get all those debates, i'm in the barbershop, i'm part of my community. i go to black church. i get all of that.

but at the end of the day, the data indicates because we have been so silent the bible that i read says you have not because you ask not. and if you don't make any demands, then you're not going to get anything. so what's happened is our hispanic brothers and sisters have taken a page out of the book that we wrote. they've taken a passenger out of our playbook -- page out of our playbook and they have been loud. you've got to put yourself in the way, you've got to get out there. you've got to make demands ring the bell, beat the drum, pick your metaphor. but you've got to find a way to be heard. and in the era of obama black people have been eerily silent, so much so that dr. king turns in his grave that black people are silent not just about poverty, but about militarism. how is it that we gave the world dr. king? this is our man of peace. he's a man of nonviolence. this is the guy that we regard more than anybody else in black history. and we've become silent even on the war question. this administration has used more drones than george bush

did. they've killed more innocent women and children with drones than george bush did. so if i say that i'm hating on the president. i'm a hater. no, my brother or sister, these are the facts; that we have a drone program on steroids, we've not made any progress on poverty, and on the racism issue it is only when black men start getting killed in the streets that we raise up in arms about the racism that's still intractable in this country. all i'm saying is that we can never, ever surrender our right to be heard just because the guy or gal in the oval office looks like us. that can't be our strategy going forward. and, again as i said earlier great presidents have to be pushed. and you don't get anything from them if you don't make demands. >> host: tavis smiley, viewers out there are listening, they want to buy one book. which one book should they buy? [laughter] of yours? >> guest: i think any author probably says the most recent one with. this new album is the best album i've ever done.

i've interviewed people a thousand times. i've never, ever interviewed one musical artist who didn't say this album is the best album. michael jackson was trying to tell us after thriller that the next album was -- how could that be michael? prince would tell you now this is the best album i've ever done so i guess you would say this dr. king is the best book i've ever written but it really is. all jokes aside now, this is my hero, and this book has been -- in most of the almost all of the reviews of book, they have talked about the meticulous research that we did over years to get this book right. so of all the books i've done, i'm most proud of the king book, and i would certainly hope that people if they if they want america to be the great nation that i think she can be, i think that's inextricably linked, that reality, to how seriously we take legacy of dr. king. and this is a story about king that most americans just don't know, and i hope that in january, a few days away from his actual birthday on the 15th and then the holiday and then

black history month, i mean, and i want to put king in a black box, but now is as good a time as any to read about dr. king, so i would say "death of a king." and at finish. >> host: and at the bottom it says with david -- >> guest: he's a wonderful writer. david ritz wrote "divided soul" with marvin gaye. has a new book coming out this year with willie nelson, he's done a book with buddy guy. i just saw the "rolling stone" list the other day the "rolling stone" list of the top ten music books of the year and david rich is holding down the number three and four position. his book on aretha franklin, "respect," and a book with joe perry of aerosmith. those books are number three and four on the best books of the year so says "rolling stone," the definitive voice on music in this country. so he's a wonderful writer, and david's the kind of guy you go to when you have a book that

needs a narrative that reads like a novel. so i don't need david on all, everything i do. but on this king book i didn't want to write a history book like branch or carson. i wanted a book about the last year of his life that reads like a movie it's like a screenplay and you can just go right through it. i needed some help making it read in that way, and david was the best person to do it, and he's a great guy. >> host: this tweet for you what is your individual writing process like? on average, how long does it take for you to complete your book? >> guest: i can do -- my researchers is the time they take is another issue. it takes a while to get research right, particularly for a book like "king." but when it comes to the actual writing, i've done 17 or 18 of these now i can actually do it in three or four months. what that means for me, though, is i can't do anything but my radio and tv shows. that's a lot of work in and of itself.

but for three or four months i cancel -- i don't cancel, i don't accept, my office knows if i'm going into a new book for three or four months we lock the calendar down. i don't make any trips, no speeches, no appearances, no awards, no nothing. i just don't leave l.a. for three or four months, and i'm in my house or, you know, in the case of david in david's office and we're working together. but it's really three or four months. once the research is done, i can sit for three months and pretty much crank out the writing. and then once i do that i turn it into my editor and the editing process begins, and i literally down to the wire on the maya book, i literally turned it into a couple weeks before christmas to little brown. my editor has it now, so we're going through the edits and revisions on that just in time to get it out out for april. but usually about three months. >> host: linda, minneapolis. good afternoon. >> caller: yes, good afternoon to you too. i have a question, of course,

for mr. smiley. and it, i have two questions and they relate directly to your book "death of a king," because i heard your lecture a week or so ago. you spoke how about how martin luther king went to lbj and criticized him i think, in the oval office and urged him sort of speaking truth to power. and i just wondered, i don't feel that -- i didn't get that you've said how did lbj take -- what was his response to these criticisms, if you know? and then i have one other question too. >> host: go ahead linda, and ask your question. >> caller: okay. the other question is, again relating to something you said on the lecture about the blacks leaders and other blacks who abandoned him who for his stance against the war in vietnam. did they -- were they really for the war in vietnam these people who abandoned him?

or did they leave him for other reasons -- >> host: all right. thank you, ma'am. >> guest: two very good questions. on the lyndon johnson question i don't feel that i am adept enough or learned enough to answer in detail what johnson's response the was to king -- was to king. certainly robert caro who's done all the wonderful work on lyndon johnson's life and legacy, i would suggest you read his work to get what robert caro says about lyndon johnson the way he viewed it. my book is from king's perspective, not from johnson's, so i don't feel knowledgeable enough to answer. on your second question, i do know the deal on the second question. so many of these black leaders i referenced earlier by name roy wilkens of the naacp whitney young in the urban league, carl rohan, ralph bunch, thurgood marshall and others who had issue with dr. king, many of them, most of them were concerned about the damage that

king was doing to their relationship, that is to say to black america's relationship with lyndon johnson. put another way lyndon johnson was viewed by many black folk at that time as the best friend that black folk in this country had had in the oval office since lincoln and the emancipation proclamation freeing the slaves. this guy passes the civil rights act, the voting rights act, you know, to say nothing of the other social programs he pushed forward. he's calling for a war on poverty. so again to most black folk johnson was the best friend we had had in the oval office since lincoln had been the president, and they did not like the fact that martin over an issue in vietnam over there, was messing up the relationship that black people had writ large with the president in the white house who had been our friend. and that's what their issue was. i mean, i don't know that the vietnam war was their primary concern. their primary concern as i have read the research, was that

martin was going to do damage to their relationship on the domestic front that we were starting to make some progress on inside the white house. >> host: 2011, two important affairs, safing america's boys -- saving america's boys came out. we've seen the hollywood script dozens of times. insert actor of choice, meryl streep matthew perry, michelle pfeiffer. assigned to a ghetto school with dangerous, low income smart ass and obnoxious students. the benevolent, frustrated by stubborn teacher refuses to give up on these poor souls. he/she bucks the stale, bureaucratic educational system to the chagrin of supervisors. he/she helps the deprived students confront their inner city demons and discover their true gifts, purpose and worth. epilogue the maligned, mistreated and misunderstood educator has been vindicated. pessimistic, frowning, hard core students have been transformed

into smiling, grateful, optimistic vessels of limitless possibilities. cue the sentimental music, roll the critics -- credits or, fade to black. >> guest: we've all seen that movie, and that's not how it works most of the time. it works in hollywood, where i live in l.a., it sell tickets but it doesn't quite work that way in real life. so this book "too important to fail," was a companion text to a pbs special that i did by the same name, "too important to fail." and i cared so much then and now about the subject matter that it was the first series that i did for pbs for which i did a companion text. my friend ken burns does this all the time, always a companion text with his documentary work. i was very pleased with the results. the special was received well, the book did remarkably well. but the reality is and this is, again, another conversation for another time but the majority of black boys in this country are being taught every day by white women in classrooms.

now, that raises all kinds of questions. and before you miss my point, i am not demonizing white women in the classroom. i said earlier two of my best friends in the world were two white women who looked out for me. that's not my point. but there are all kinds of questions it raises, cultural and political and economic questions. all kinds of questions it raises about what it means that our black boys in the most multicolored and multiracial multiethnic america in history are being taught by white teachers. are they prepared to handle these black boys? are these black boys being assigned to read material where they see themselves in the material? these black boys and research points this out as you'll see in the book if these black boys don't develop a love of reading by the second or third grade, they're lost. so many of the boys that research has been done on shows that because they don't ever see themselves in the narrative, they don't develop a love of reading. you love to read i love to read, but i like to read a

certain kind of book. you like to -- only brian lamb reads everything. but we like to read certain kinds of books. so these boys are no different. there are all kinds of issues that were raised in that special for the betterment of the school system and for the betterment of these boys who are stuck in this public education system that in many ways is not working for them. that's, again, one of my passion projects. i still do a lot of work with black boys. and i just, i have seven younger brothers. so this is something that comes natural for me. it's not just something i do because i'm on tv. i have seven younger brothers and now thanks to those seven brothers and two sisters, i have 31 nieces and nephews, many of whom are black boys. so this is something i live every day even in my own family. >> host: neville is in cleveland. you're on booktv with tavis smiley. >> caller: um, mr. smiley, i would like to ask you to make a comment on the contribution of

people from the caribbean to american society. i think of the fact that people like colin powell and eric holder have backgrounds from the caribbean, harry belafonte stokely carmichael marcus garvey. and at the other end rihanna, nicki minaj from the caribbean. would you care -- >> host: neville, where are you from? >> caller: i'm from guyana in south america. >> host: thank you sir. >> guest: i think you just commented, and i couldn't agree were more. that's what's so beautiful about this country and this is worth remembering as we have this debate this pseudo-debate in the next few weeks and months and now with the republicans controlling both houses of congress, where is this immigration debate going to go? obviously, conservatives and others in this town think the president, you know, has rubbed their nose in this immigration debate and has really, you know

gone beyond the pale when he used his executive privilege to do what he did on the issue of immigration reform. they didn't like that, as we all know, and you've seen that covered here on c-span. but it's worth remembering that this country is a country built on immigrants. and it's also worth remembering that all these immigrants aren't mexicans, you know? there are all kinds of persons cocome to this -- who come to this country and make grand contributions. i think sometimes we lose sight of that, that this country so great because people around the world have come here to make this country a great nation. this is a beautiful mosaic that we call america, and so often we have these kinds of debates about us versus them, and it just doesn't make much sense to me. >> host: every guest we have here on "in depth," we ask him or her for what they're reading currently, some of their favorites, some of their influences. here's a look at what tavis smiley

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