our friends. we have them at the state department. we have a muslim brotherhood delegation some holding up to four finger salute. at the state department. a terrorist group identified as such. they are terrorists. the same endgame. tactics are different. they burrow into a host society a host society and eat at it from and within. it's much more eloquent. same endgame. two legs.

i don't know how i got on that tangent, tangent, but it needed to be said. as much as anybody else. see. .. >> in our own area we have aman who feeds the state department and is just one of them who is endorsed -- [inaudible] and who is voted for by all our friends and neighbors. nobody says anything. we all say it's barack husain obama.

no it's chris van hollen too and the people who vote for him. it's our friends and. [inaudible] the people that vote straight obama/van hollen, and you cannot talk to them. and the reason they get away with that is because we still treat 'em like friends and neighbors. we think that's a legitimate point of view. that is not a legitimate point of view -- [inaudible] andik we don't -- [inaudible] >> did you have a question? >> any more questions? >> yeah, i have a question. >> number three at in the records about attacking computers are attacking the us state department i know that isis but can you speak

to wear those come from? >> great questions but with isis the cyberjihad these are guys you mentioned earlier are very savvy with technology and the media that have their cyberhockey team that they are trying to hack into the personal information of u.s. military personnel and law-enforcement. that is scary they have published addresses of soldiers on the web. or their real? not quite clear but the intent is there absolutely bad on b-2s sensitive economic issues but into personal lives of u.s. soldiers. at the end of the day white to the target u.s. soldiers?

because they view them as the tip of the crusaders fear. the defenders of the cross. they believe in modern-- crusaders so many times they are targeting u.s. military. many times to target americans with the cyberrealm as well. i forget the second part of your question. i am sure it is profound. funding. if it is profound. it makes. [applause] gore around. private donors from the persian in gulf region private wealthy donors better sympathetic to is the jihad and the other way is

from the antiquities remember the heartland of the bible where jonah was with a profit daniels to in iraq and syria to have biblical significance. so it is just good old fashioned pillaging as they conquered will sold -- model -- and what what they took from that conquest where isis kaposi's oilfields and they sell that on the black market in the middle east of turkey and syria began the lebanon and their making two or $3 million per day.

so lots of different revenue streams. you see the tower and the village you make them pay tribute to with it exorbitant taxes so multiple revenue streams without a doubt. >> i cannot say kiwi neff. faq for coming. to have that intellectual courage of the ushers. >> this is booktv of in prime time. a reminder that every weekend booktv features 48 hours of nonfiction books beginning at 8

a.m. eastern on saturday. for the late rest schedule information, go to our web site booktv.org. and with congress on their two week spring recess, our booktv in prime time presentation continues with a series of our "after words" programs. at eight, april ryan recounts her over 25-year career in journalism followed by william bennett on his book "against the legalization of marijuana." and then at 10 p.m., eric foner on his book "gateway to freedom" about fugitive slaves during the mid 19th century. that all begins at 8 p.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> world bank president jim young kim speaks at the center for strategic and international studies tuesday about ending global poverty. you can see his remarks live at 9:30 a.m. eastern here on c-span2.

>> next a conversation on immigration policy with archbishop of miami and other immigrant rights activists. speakers discussed dissatisfaction with the response from washington and the immigration views of potential 2016 presidential candidates from. the florida international university in miami, this is 90 minutes. [applause] >> thank you, dean and thank you, michael gillespie for inviting us to participate in this event as cosponsors of the panel today. i'm pleased to introduce our four guest speakers. we have three right now, but we'll hopefully have the fourth one in a but minutes. and then after their interventions, i will moderate the question and answer period. so i think we're going to change the order of presentations according to professor gillespie who's the boss here. let me introduce our first

speaker, ms. helen aguirre fere. she moderates a weekly public affairs series issue on wpbt 2. secondly we'll have father thomas wenski who has been, since 2010, the fourth archbishop of miami. he has a very long record working with various immigrant groups including cubans and haitians here in miami. our third speaker will be ms. dahlia walker-huntington who is an torn in the offices of dahlia walker in hollywood, florida. she practices in the area of immigration, family and criminal law and is a native of jamaica. our fourth speaker who will hopefully -- she's actually just here so welcome. will be jen city metellus who is

director of the haitian center in miami. a strong advocate in south florida, especially women and refugees. so without further ado -- >> i'd like to thank fiu for hosting this conversation, and i think we have too few conversations in our country in general. we shout a lot, but we don't talk a lot. and i think this is one of those that really deserves meaningful conversation. i love it that this conversation's also occurring the day after st. patrick's day where we celebrate something that it's so fascinating, which is the irish tradition which seems so foreign to us here in south florida, and yet e it's such a central core. there were many hispanics and african-american and blacks who were sporting green yesterday in recognition of st. patrick's day. and it's interesting because obviously, that is part of the immigrant phenomenon which is so much a part of the fiber of our

country. we've always had a struggle with immigration and anyone who is irish for a few generations back could tell you that being irish was not always an easy experience. hispanics today will tell you perhaps, then, we are the ones who have replaced the irish, and we are the ones who are experiencing and of course the haitian-american community could also speak to that, but i will leave that for gepsie as well as others to address that issue. it seems odd to me that we are even talking about immigration reform at this point in time. a country that is, we consider the number one leader in the world, a country that is the largest -- not the largest but one of the greatest democracies in the world. world leader on so many fronts can't get this issue right. it's one of those things that just keeps us stalled in policy debates as if this was pardon the pun, a foreign conversation

when it's not. it's something that's so basic and elemental and part of the fiber of our country. and yet we see that it's stalled regardless of who's in power and where the majority lies in washington d.c. when the democrats were in absolute power in 2008, from 2008 until 2010, one would have thought they would have taken the happy opportunity to pass immigration reform at that point in time. and they chose not to. they passed other legislation including health care reform, and the one promise that was made to the hispanic community was squandered. something that has been reminded of the democratic community and president obama in particular time and time again. the republicans complain about illegal immigration and do the

same: nothing. they stop all discussion and all conversation as if doing nothing is an answer or a solution to the problem. border security is an important part of the conversation, and republicans will tell you that it's the first thing that needs to be addressed. many would agree, but go ahead and address it. and yet they don't. and when you do have border legislation, it's scuttled because there's this desire to have a majority republican voice in this thought or in approving this piece of legislation when it really isn't necessary. and one would wish that leadership on both sides of the aisle would reach out to each other and say what can we do to make this happen, to bring the country together, and who would disagree that we do not need to bring the country together on in

this very important issue? what to do with the undocumented imp grants that are here -- immigrants that are here, well here's a new flash the undocumented could ultimately end up becoming citizens. why? pause they have american- because they have american-born children who when they become of age, ultimately claim their participants. not the case for all, as dreamers will attest. but certainly, it is a reality for very many. in have short period of time, 40% of the work force will be hispanic. non-hispanic age, non-hispanic working age men and women their growth in the job market's going to be almost zero. minority communities are having more children than white non-hispanics. from an economic perspective, it makes all the sense in the world.

from a religious perspective -- and i'm going leave that core, the man who saves souls to discuss -- but out of humanity, out of history out of a seasons of community and an understanding of our history immigration reform should be resolved. and in 2016 if this is not a resolved issues it will further divide the country in ways that will be more than unfortunate. thank you. >> i'm archbishop wenski and i worked many years in the haitian community, 18 years beginning in the late '70s all through the the '80s and into '90s when i became an auxiliary bishop and then bishop of orlando and now

archbishop of miami, and immigration has been part of my life all those years. the last major immigration reform was accomplished in 1986 under president reagan. and that incolluded an am necessary -- included an amnesty, an amnesty that certainly benefited this community to the good in many, many ways. by the end, by the mid '90s and towards the end of the '90s we realized that that legislation did not address all the issues that needed to be addressed, and it was clear that we were facing a broken immigration system. and so since that time we've been trying to advocate for a fix, a reform of our immigration system. the united states catholic bishops in the year 2001 issued a pastoral letterer that was also signed onto by the bishops of mexico. it was entitled "strangers no

longer" in which we set out our priorities on immigration reform and what shape it should take. we were lucky this that both the staff of senator ted kennedy and senator mccain used that document to put forth an immigration reform proposal that was on the table in the early, early part of the 2000sment i -- 2000s. i remember i went up to washington, d.c. in september i think it was september 9th and 10th of 2001. i think on the 9th president vincente fox addressed a joint session of congress in which he also a underlined the need for immigration reform. the next day i and another bishop, we went to we went to

see the head of ins at that time, a gentleman by the name of ziegler, and he said, bishops we're going to get it fixed. it's going to be fixed pretty soon. i got on my plane, flew back to miami, went to bed. when i got up the next morning and was going to work on radio 9/11 happened. and 9/11 basically changed the equation. america went into a bad mood and we have since -- we have yet to emerge from that bad mood. and that bad mood has been stymying our efforts to initiate immigration reform. so we had the senator mccain bill which was basically should be the gold standard, the kennedy-mccain bill that came out in 2001. it was going to provide a very good and very reasonable and very humane and just immigration reform. it didn't make it partly because of the bad mood resulting from

the 9/11 attacks. later on senator mel martinez from florida attempted another iteration of an immigration reform bill, that was about 2005 maybe, 2006. he and senator hagel. it wasn't as good as the kennedy-mccain bill, my eyes but it was acceptable. and that wasn't able to get through partly because by that time president bush had lost his political capital that he -- because he supported both the kennedy-mccain bill, and he sported the martinez-hagel bill, but he lost the political capital to twist elbows and -- to twist arms and get the necessary votes in the house and the senate. at the same time, it was interesting to note that the democrats wholy have been -- who

generally have been usually at least publicly in favor of immigration reform decided to let president bush out alone on this issue. in fact, rahm emanuel now the mayor of chicago, was a big influential guy in the house at that time, a congressman. he went around to democrats in the house and said don't you dare vote for immigration reform now. if you do, the party not give you any money for your -- the party will not give you any money for your campaign. and why did he do that? basically, because they wanted to make sure immigration reform would not pass while there was a republican in the white house. so they were going to wait to a democratic white house so they could do immigration reform and also, you know use that to their political advantage. and as you already heard, when the democrats had both the white house and the majority in both the nat and the house -- the

senateth and house they didn't act on it. we still are struggling, we still are advocating for immigration reform. we were, we were happy for daca which was a relief for the dreamers. we were happy for it because it wasn't what we'd wanted, we wanted the dream act. we couldn't get it so we applaud an administrative resolution. not a solution, but band-aid that provided relief for thousands of -- hundreds of thousands of young people. we supported dapa which is the latest administrative action of the president obama to provide relief to parents of u.s. who have children that are u.s. citizens or u.s. residents. that was gonna perhaps help out

maybe five million of the 11 or so million undocumented in our country today. the president announced it, and in doing so he angered the republicans and, of course they initiated some action in the house to defund it to derail it one way or the other. before they got a chance to do that some judge in texas basically, you know, ruled it unconstitutional and it's on hold until its appeal to a higher court and, hopefully, that will be overturned. unfortunately, even if it's overturned it's only a temporary fix because it doesn't provide legalization, it doesn't provide a path to citizenship. it just says that for x amount

of months you can get a work permit, and you can get a driver's license, and you can be in the country without legal status. that's not a solution, that's not a permanent solution, but we support it and we think that the president did have the authority to do it, and we think it's a temporary -- a good temporary stopgap measure. but what we do need and we can't do it without congress, we do need a fix to a broken immigration system. the catholic bishops have been saying for the past ten plus years that a immigration reform should have three legs or like a three-legged stool. one leg is a path to citizenship for the 11 million or so that are here in this country already.

these people are already part of our american society even though they're not, they don't enjoy legal status. they have americans american citizens who are their chirp, they might have -- who are their children they might have spouses, their neighbors who are american citizens, they're already integrated into the fabric of our society. and even, you know, even the republicans admit that we're not going to be able to deport 11 million people. so if we're not going to deport them, then we should give them a path to legalization. and that path to legalization really is not only in their interests, it's in our own self-interests as an american society. because by leaving 11 million people outside a legal status, we're basically recreating in our nation a new sanctioned

underclass that's exploitable because they don't have legal protection. the last time we did this as a nation, we called it jim crow. and we haven't been able to overcome the effects of jim crow even to date. is so why would -- so why would we want to do it again for 11 million people? so that's the first leg. given the 11 millioning in this -- giving the 11 million in this country a path to citizenship. the other leg would be family reunification. and one of reasons why we have this trouble at the border of people being smuggled in people like the children that came in or are still coming in over the south texas border is many of these people are looking for reunification with their families who are already here.

when in the 1990s our government started to increase start on border -- increase security on the border by militarizing the border, a lot of people that used to go back and forth and go work in apples in the seattle area, they found it was harder to get back and forth, so they stayed in the united states. and they didn't have the vocation of celibacy so they wanted to have their wives and children with them. that created a whole new business of coyotes smuggling women and children across the border. and we have more than one case of women and children dying in the back of trucks suffocated because they were being brought across the border in a desperate attempt to reunite with family members. right now if you're a mexican and you are a legal u.s.

resident or citizen and you have a wife or a child in mexico, you have to wait ten years before that person can get a visa to come to this country. the same is true if you're in the philippines and many other countries. so when people say why don't they stay in line, well, in many cases there is no line, or the line has no end. so family unification visas have to be rationalized and the backlogs eliminated so that there is not an incentive for illegal migration for people who just want about to unite their families. so that's the second leg. the third leg is a worker program. we have to assure our american businesses a supply of legal, a legal work force. i think most people working in

service industry working in the agricultural industry would prefer to have a legal work force. and right now you have agribusiness, you know, they're very nervous. they tend to vote republicans, but they are in favor of immigration reform because they have a very very narrow profit margin. and their ability to harvest crops and to get chickens to market and all that can be, can be blown out of the water by some crazy enforcement measures taken by immigration authorities, etc., etc. so they want immigration reform. and rather, you know, right now we have a system in which if you survive a dangerous can gauntlet of going across the border, you'll find a job someplace. and immigrants have gone into

every one of the 50 states. and they've done et without any federal -- done it without any federal program directing them, but they go to where there are jobs. if you look around our commitments, the immigrants are not sleeping under bridges. they're not the ones sleeping under bridges. they go to where the jobs are, and they find jobs. so you find, you know, central americans and mexicans working in onions in new york state milking cows in new hampshire working in alaska everywhere. so why dope we ration -- why do we rationalize this and allow these people to work legally? that's immigration reform. those three legs -- take care of the illegals that are here the undocumented that are here by providing them a path to citizenship, work out the kinks in the family unification program and assure a legal work force for our, for our industries that require workers especially those on the low end

of the economic scale. now, back to 1986 when we, you know did immigration reform. it was a tough lift back then too. reagan got it done. and it was interesting because you know what we're seeing today in the united states, all this anti-immigrant feeling expressed in different areas, we lived it here in south florida in the early 1980s. it was mostly focused on the haitians. in fact, you know, we had a indefinite detention policy for haitians. there's now a detention policy for everybody. and identify got to shut -- i've got to shut up soon because i'm exceeding my time, but let me just say this. what was a local problem here has now become pretty much a national issue.

however, let's look at south florida. we survived it. our experience of immigration in the '70s and '80s have shown us that we have nothing really to fear from immigration. immigrants, you know are not problems they're opportunities because they bring, they bring gifts that -- and they bring, you know possibilities and dreams and determination etc. etc. so we can see how, you know, we can -- we should be able to say that our south florida experience should show to the country that there's no reason to fear immigration that it is a positive for american society. and let me just end with a little -- [inaudible] about the cuban adjustment act because a few weeks ago i saw that our cuban-american congress

people were advocating that now is the time to do away with it. and i thought that was a foolish thing for them to say. because that's what the castro government has been saying for over 20 years. so here we go politics makes strange bedfellows, doesn't it? that we have the, you know the hard-lining cuban-americans basically advocating for a position that the cuban government has been advocating for for two decades to do away with the cuban adjustment act. i think the cuban adjustment act should be a template of how we should treat immigrants. because the cubans have been the most successful immigrant group in american history. and one of the reasons for their success -- sure they have, you know, their own talents and their own genius etc. etc. -- but one of the reasons cubans succeeded was because there was a cuban adjustment act which meant one year after they were here, they had a green card and five years later six years later they were u.s. citizens.

so, you know i remember in the '80s too there was always a lot of comparisons made between the treatment that cubans were getting and the treatment that haitians were getting. and cubans were treated better than the haitians. but the haitians were not reited much worse than the -- treated much worse than the mexicans or hondurans, you know? the issue shouldn't be that we should treat the cubans as bad as we've been treating everybody else. i think what we should argue for is that we should treat everybody else as good as we've been treating the cubans. because that cuban adjustment act works. and if it worked for cubans, it can work for everybody else. and with that, i will be silent. >> my answer is that as attorneys we have to do both. lawyers are advocates. we represent our clients in the courtroom, we problem solve we negotiate. and we also advocate. but most attorneys who practice immigration law in the united

states are members of a national organization called the american immigration lawyers association or aila. of it's an advocacy group that has over 13,000 members. the mission of aila, established in 1946, is to promote justice and to advocate for fair and reasonable immigration law and policy. subpoena hi, in the iming -- certainly, in the immigration law context lawyers are the people with the most intimate knowledge of the laws themselves, the process. and we are the ones who see the day-to-day impact of immigration law on individuals and families both inside and outside of the united states. we see when parents are separated from sons and daughters for 7-10 years and in the mexican context 21 years if you're filing for a son or a daughter who is over 21 years of age. and siblings who are separated for up to 13 years.

aila has a national today of advocacy -- national day of advocacy this year it's april 16th in washington, where attorneys and representatives from all across the united states converge on d.c. to lobby congress for meaningful immigration laws. not just immigration reform. because while we do know about the -- and the numbers vary between 10-15 million people who are undocumented -- there are also laws on the books that separate families. i'll give you one example. if you are the parent of an american citizen and your son or daughter is over 21, you have remarried and you now have a new family, if you remarried after that son or daughter was 18, that stepchild cannot follow -- cannot file for their stepparent. and also if they file for their sibling, the sibling goes into a category that says they have to wait 13 years.

so you have, once again the separation of families. and as helen said earlier, although america has a history of immigrants, we also have a bad history of limiting immigration as each group assimilates. they turn, it seems, against the next wave of immigrants. the irish the german the polish the italians the eastern europeans were not always welcomed to america but now they're established. and the newest immigrants, the latinos, the africans and the caribbean people are being resisted. and it's up to lawyers to partner with other groups such as the churches and ngos to make and help to document the contribution that immigrants have made and continue to make to this great country. and while on that subject, it's not uncommon to hear people with the last names of rubio and cruz who are also indiana-immigrants -- anti-immigrants. as lawyers, we have to show the

american people how they benefit from the reunification of families which is supposed to be the hallmark of u.s. immigration. and in today's america, how america can benefit from keeping students who are educated in the united states in institutions such as fiu, but are forced the to leave with their knowledge because they have of no path no clear path to residency or to entrepreneurship. the 12-15 million undocumented in this country definitely need a path to legislation, to legalization. and it should not take 13 years as was proposed in the senate bill that passed in 2013. the people need to come out of the shadow, they need to obtain driver's license, make it safer for all of us on the street. they need to pay their back taxes, pass a criminal background check and become permanent members of a society to which they contribute on a daily basis. many are already paying their taxes, but even if they're not

they're part of the economy that contributes to the way in which we are able to live in this country whether we want to believe it or not. now, as lawyers as an advocate for your client, we have a duty as lawyers to be knowledgeable of existing lawses and to find ways -- laws and to find ways to use the laws that exist to help our clients. immigration law is complex. it's second in complexity only to the internal revenue code and it's not uncommon to have different applications of the law and to receive different answers from different uscis agents. you call the 800 number today, you get one answer. you call tomorrow you ask the same question, you get a different answer. so the immigration lawyer has a responsibility to daily update themselves on what is happening in immigration law. in the criminal law context defendants are entitled to counsel. and even deportation, which is the most severe of penalties,

the separation of families is not considered a criminal matter. it's considered civil proceeding. so there is no right to have counsel appointed to you in immigration law. you have the right to counsel only if you can afford it. pleasure and we saw last year with all those chirp who were coming in -- all those children who were coming in, many of were 5, 6, 7 years old who were sitting at tables such as these in front of immigration judges not speaking the language and not having representation. so ngos and churches to try to provide free or reduced counsel, but the need outweighs the availability, and many immigrants appear without counsel. as lawyers we also have an ethical duty to take on cases that are within our competence and knowing immigration law and giving the correct advice is a matter between remaining in the

united states and being forever separated from your families. we have a responsibility to be at the forefront of advocacy as far as i'm concerned because of the knowledge that we possess, we're sometimes accused of not wanting nonlawyers to, quote-unquote, benefit from the business of immigration. and it's mind-boggling to me because even after practicing haw for 17 years, my -- law for 17 years, my colleagues and i still call each other and bounce cases off each other because the whole study and maintaining of immigration law is so complexment and we're very overwhelmed in our heavily immigrant community in south florida which is so unique to have so many different countries represented here and some pockets of heavy different nations. we are overwhelmed with those who believe they know more about

immigration law than practitioners who are submerging themselves in the practice every day. and so i do join with my two prior panelists in advocating that we need immigration reform in this united states. not only did president bush expend his political capital by not pushing, but president obama also expends his political capital by not moving within the first 100 days as he promised to pass immigration law. and as a practitioner who is out there and also an advocate every day, i don't see it happening in the next two years, within this congress before the 2016 election. i hope to be prudent person wrong -- to be proven wrong, but i don't see it happening. what has happened in texas is that 26 states including the state of florida joined a

lawsuit to stop the president's executive action that he signed in november of last year. and it's interesting that the judge who issued the injunction against then actment of -- the enactment of the executive action didn't do it on the merits of the executive action but chose to do so on procedure. saying that the president did not follow the procedure of putting it out there for a certain number of days and it was a procedural or a technicality as a nonlawyer would say that has caused this executive action not to be implemented. which was going to have widespread results. not just the five million people who are expected to benefit from dapa which is a deferred action for parents but also the whole

revamping of immigration, looking at it. and the president as the executive of the country has the authority to decide how his agencies -- in this case the department of homeland security -- how homeland security's going to implement the laws or that are already on the books. and there is a law on the books right now. and technically someone in homeland security -- and this is done every day. a person comes up for deportation, and that deportation is deferred, and they're allowed to apply for a work permit. so what the president did in that regard was nothing that is not being dope on a daily basis -- being done on a daily basis. what he was saying was apply it across the board.

invite people to come in and apply, come out of the shadows get this monk can key off your back -- monkey off your back and continue to contribute to the united states. thank you. >> values of our country clearly demonstrate that this is something, immigration is something that we embrace in spite of the times where we've been not too welcoming to significant numbers of immigrants. but still, it remains in our national interests, it remains in our economic interests it remains in our interest in terms of world prestige and moral authority that we live up to our values. clearly, i think no american disagrees with this each those who -- even those who appear to be today's anti-immigrant anti-immigration reform voices. all right? second thing is that look we all agree that immigration

reform requires that we secure the border, requires that all of people the 11 million plus people who are here in this country who seek to be legalized, who seek to have their status adjusted, well, they must learn to speak english -- andly they do -- they must pay their taxes and they actively try to do this today even through not a social security number, through an ifn, right? they clearly want to be upstanding citizens of this country. they want to be participatory. they want to contribute to the growth to have the economy. the children are in school and want to take every opportunity that this country offers, and everyone seeks to live the american dream right? and so i don't think that in the immigration reform advocacy corner no one -- i don't think anyone disagrees with the several principles that i have just cited, right? and so today what's going on?

you heard the archbishop reference the post-9/11 mood of this country, right? and i think there's some other elements too that explain the partisanship the hyperpartisanship, the rancor, the nastiness, the gridlock and all of the things that we know are disfunctional with our congress today. and you know i'm going to tell you the truth. i believe clearly -- even as a black man in the white house, i think that's an element right? i think that the anti-immigration forces and voices in this country have taken over and have drowned out the voices of the silent majority which is many of us right? those of us who do nothing, say nothing because we don't think that our voices matter we don't think that we can, in fact, figure out ways to amplify those voices such that collectively we make an impact right? and so when you've got this kind of mood in this country, and you've got a more minute finish i won't even call it a minority,

a minute group of people who are holding the rest of us hostage who are holding this process hostage and, of course, are finding their voices through some elements that they're elected to congress who are then participating in this gridlock and resulting in us being the laughingstock of the world, you know? where is our moral authority? where is our authority to preach to others? what is our authority to say to other countries, other peoples in other areas of the world that they must do can x, y and z to either live up to the democratic values and ideals, to live up to human rights values and ideals to live up to all of the standards that we are known to be identified withsome and here we are trampling on those very same standards where i think large segments of our immigrants are concerned. you heard archbishop mention the tact that haitian immigrants -- the fact that haitian immigrants in this country and this

community in particular were treated very, very badly. i think that there was probably some unwritten policy that suggested that haitian immigrants were to be locked up, haitian immigrants were to be detained indefinitely haitian immigrants were to be discouraged from coming into this country by any means necessary whether that meant indefinite detention whether that meant look, you know send them back. and each when morally we could not withstand the public ask the worldwide -- and the worldwide criticism, you know, i think we came up with, what was it, wet foot-dry foot? some sort of policy to attempt to say, yes, we understand it doesn't look good that we would treat one group of immigrants in a certain way which is, in particular, the cubans, and yet treat haitians who arrive here in this country under the same circumstances, and yet they're turned back. ..

puck pub or democrat at the end of the day we want the same things i mentioned. we need all of you to not be, not, not grow the sector of bystanders who are the silent majority when your voices are so powerful. we need you to urge your elected

representatives to act on this. yes, some of us think, 2017 it is possible, some people say not, some people say yes. we recognize our country our economy can not sustain this. we will not be able to deport all of these people. we know that business sectors and that that important to our economy need this labor force need this workforce. so they're on board. so what is it that we're waiting for? clearly we recognize that there are some who, some who favor providing visas to those individuals who are considered investors, who are going to invest in the economy, who are going to create jobs and going to help us in terms of our economic outlook. and i don't disagree with that totally but i do think we need to make room for family reunification as the archbishop mentioned. clearly all the individuals already in this country already

doing the work that none of us would do today right? the work that none of us would do today these individuals are here doing this, striving to deserve a place a spot in this great country striving to live this american dream. and are having their dreams their aspirations derailed by some individuals who seem to not understand what time it is. so, let me just close with reminding all of us, something i love to say, i'm also careful in the way i say it because i don't want anyone to misquote me. i like to think that the american immigration system is probably the only ponzi scheme that works right? to the extent right you come to this country as an immigrant. you apply for other relatives who come in. and they apply for successive numbers of relatives come in and all of us keep growing the country, keep growing the

country, keep moving forward provide our talent to make the country what it is today. is that not a scheme that workses? it is in our best interest to get it right and get it done and it has to get done right away. i will stop right here. >> thank you to all of our guest speak es for wonderful presentations. help me to recognize them. [applause] now we have time for questions and answers. i would like to remind you to please be brief. use microphone over here. we might try to group several questions together so we'll have more time for responses and so on. whoever wants to start with the first question please. also identify yourself, if you will. >> my name is alberto.

i am not sure you we have the majority silent. i am not sure, believe me. however, how we can move the heart of this nation to understand this problem because this is a big problem you know. very big problem. and obviously if we should have the majority of the public opinion, the final going to be different but right now i don't think we have. how can we change this course? >> i think there is a majority of people, polling indicates a majority of people are in favor of immigration reform fix of broken immigration system. what happens in the house of representatives, the congressman do not have to respond to the

majority of opinion in the united states. the only respond to the majority of opinion within their districts. and so the districts have been gerrymandered in certain ways that most, you know you know most congressman are coming from pretty comfortable districts that tend to vote democratic or vote republican. and therefore you know, some of the, you know, the restrictionists, that are anti-ii am my be immigration reform in their districts the pro-immigration reform people are in the minority. while around the country pro-immigration reform are the majority and that is one of the problems that is keeping it from happening in congress. however, i would like to be an optimist and you know the lawyer here says no immigration reform before 2017. that is probably right. but i would, i would hope that,

you know, maybe some enlightenment might reach congress, the republicans in congress. i want to be, if they would think about it, they would see that it would be to their advantage, really to get immigration issue off the table before the primary season hit us after the summer. you know. because, it certainly would help jeb bush if immigration wasn't going to be a hot button issue if it was resolved by some immigration reform coming from congress now, rather than later. so and of course then you could also say on the other side, the democrats might be to their advantage not to solve immigration now because they would use it as a wedge issue in the next election. and, so, what we have to appeal

to is both parties better angels, they don't look for the partisan advantage but look for the common good. the common good would be served by fixing this problem sooner rather than later because the longer we wait to fix it, the longer we are seeing, i see it in parishes around the archdiocese and beyond of people suffering of families being broken up, of dreams being dashed. >> if i could i would like to say that in the work that i did univision radio and i am not with univision america at this point right now but in the work that i did it was political show and talk show and people would call in from all over the country and there were a lot of hispanics who would call in and say, i played by the rules and i came here in the right way and i applied and i have been waiting five or six or seven years for my child to be able to come to

the country family reunification. now i have now i find out if i had brought them in illegally they would be able to have the benefit that the dreamers have today. so it is not an easy issue. it is very complicated. part of the struggles that many republicans in congress who are in favor of immigration reform try to find a platform so that there is no preferential treatment for those who are in the pipeline in order to come here is an issue. i think that there is an understanding as well, that, even though a republican congress can't pass what they consider immigration reform, it might not meet the approval of the white house and it could be vetoed. and we leave, live in a time today where politically both sides are saying it is my way or the highway and that is the unfortunate nature of the process today. >> you know, to give credit

where it is due last, last year around may i remember i met with congressman boehner speaker of the house i met with mario diaz-balart one of our local congressman and diaz-balart, was leading among republicans in the house a charge to secure a vote on that senate bill that marco rubio got passed in the senate for immigration reform. it wasn't the greatest bill around, because as you heard it required 13-year wait to get citizenship, but at least it would be, you would have legal status and ability to work, et cetera, et cetera. he was working on that and and what blew it out of the water was the crisis on the border with the unaccompanied minors because that, that, that crisis was going on for a while but it hit the media and summer, and

that was the time that was going to be voted on and basically you know so the votes that mario was trying to line up to get it through it all, fell apart. not only that crisis but also cantor's loss in virginia. that loss and the crisis took the wind out of the sails of attempts of republicans in the house to push the immigration forward. but hopefully let's we always say let's keep on going. we continue to advocate. >> thank you. we'll take another question. >> hi. i'm a student here at fau as well as office assistant for the cuban research institute. i wanted to know why is immigration reform so important specifically for non-immigrants? >> well, immigration reform is

important because you, right now, there is an estimated between 12 and 15 million people living undocumented in the united states. after the 9/11 attacks, when those persons who took part in the attacks were here primarily on student visas had drivers license, and this is just one issue. the ability of an alien to get a drivers license became impossible increasingly difficult. so what you have now are people, driving on the streets of miami, fort lauderdale, all across this country, who have jobs as the archbishop said they have to get to. they have children they have to take to school. they have no choice but to get into a carry and drive. they have no insurance. and they're putting you and i at risk. that is number one. number two, these are people who

have been here ten 20, 30 years in this country. they're working in all sorts of different fields. they're doctors. they're nurses. they're bankers. they own businesses, they employ people but they don't have a green card. they don't have residency. so they're contributing to the economy every day. there are also people who are doing the jobs as gepsie said we don't want to do. my husband here, executive housekeeper at a hotel. it is so difficult every time they place an ad for a housekeeper, a made to get someone -- maid, to get someone who is an american citizen or resident or born in america, not with an immediate immigrant past to come in to do the work. there are industries out there who want to have employees to

work. as the archbishop said, it is always amazing to me, i say to my office, somebody will walk in who is undocumented alien but they're working, they're working. there are people who are born here and they will come and tell me they can't find a job. so it is important to get these people to come out of the shadows, to pay the taxes undergo background check to remain here and be a part of the fabric of what makes this country great. the president's administrative action is not about deporting families. certainly we are not arguing for people with heavy criminal backgrounds to be able to remain in the country and that is whole separate issue. but the issue that the president put forward is that he wants to keep families here to keep families together, to perpetuate this more than o american dream. unless you are a member of the mick sukie tribe the seminole

tribe, your ancestors came from somewhere else to be here. i'm a new immigrant because i'm from the caribbean. i'm a new face to america. i may not be from eastern europe or from northern europe but i am an american as well. so we have to embrace the new americans who are here, who we live amongst down in south florida more than other parts of the country. >> if you're a non-immigrant and fall in love with documented alien, you get married you might find out he will be deported. and, that you can't really fix it because he nall falls under the 10-year ban. he will be deported and will not be able to come back to the united states for 10 years. that is one reason that you might be concerned about it, if you're not an immigrant but you, you know, so why should i care about the undocumented. well it could come to affect you

in a very personal way. it is good to fix it. you know to do right by everybody because it will end up doing right by you. >> that's true. the cost of fruits and vegetables in our community would be just unbearable. >> i would also say very quickly, an issue of national security. when we talk about 9/11 and where we are today, we are talking about issues of great national concern and we're acknowledging that we have approximately 11 million people who live in the shadows, to say the least. we say in the shadows because we don't have proper documentation or organized documentation. we all know who they are. they go to school with our kids. we shop there. they are sometimes neighbors and we're more familiar with who they are than not. but in other communities that may not be the case because here we're very open to immigration. south florida is exception to the rule to a great degree but

from perspective of national security, why would you not want to have a better sense of who is here why you're here what are you doing in a healthy sense? i don't want that big brother type of government to be overseeing -- i don't want a government that will be knocking on doors and asking for papers. many people are here because of governments like that. that is not that is not what this is about at all. but we do have to have a better sense and better control of who is coming in and out of the country. with the issue of family reunification, i would say the issue of family reunification would be diminished if there was an opportunity for people to have work permits. to be able to come in and out of country. many do not want to bring their children here they could avoid it because they think the united states is way too liberal by certainly standards of the other countries and that, you know,

there isn't enough parental control, right? so the idea of bringing the kids here is frightening and if you look at the news sometimes it is frightening. >> we have a few more questions. why don't we take all three and as a panel address them. go ahead. >> good afternoon. i represent the haitian organization here on campus as well as the catholic panthers. my question has to do with the cuban adjustment act. has there been an attempt to implement an act similar to the cuban adjustment act by the haitian community? >> thank you. we'll take the next question. >> yeah. similar actually. my name is julio. i am undocumented student. i come here to fiu. the reason i am still undocumented. i came here 16 for 30 days. i don't qualify for daca, i came here 30 days after the my 16th birthday.

my question about unaccompanied minors. i'm one of them. a lot of them are getting automatic removals because they're not going to court. what would it take for the government to realize crisis happening now. what if we apply the cuban adjustment act for the minors? for last 10 years we've had same amount of cubans, 40,000 cubans arriving to miami every year. when we call about the minors, it is invasion. it is no different than cubans coming to the united states. >> thank you. we'll take another question. >> good afternoon, my name is lori. i have too many questions in my mind to really pin down one but there is one thing that i have always, always wondered. in the vast majority of, what exactly is it all these immigrants are running away from? i mean all these countries i mean every country they have their spark their glory but i can't help but notice that,

unfortunately those in the higher power like perfect example would be cuba. i mean, castro he has really done so, so much to just demolish a culture that was once way more presentable but i just wonder sometimes why won't maybe perhaps we can encourage the immigrants that are here with us, teach them you know way that might be able to go back to their countries and try to immigrate i mean, establish a new idea for their people for the government? i know that in these certain of these countries they're not really given the chance to learn about the idea of democracy and such and they are basically blindfolded throughout, in their lifetimes. they don't know that there is a better world.

they could live in. it could be their own world. they just need to stand up and say, whoever is up there guiding us, for better, investing for our better outcomes please prove yourself or else i'm sorry you're not being well enough, i mean. i live in one nation under pod. god. god wants to us help each other. unfortunately people in the higher power they will put on the bright sunny faces unfortunately in the background it is pretty different story. they want to hypnotize the crowd into thinking, listen, you have enough. this is more than enough and it isn't. and we have been given the chance to know that. we learned so, so much. and i perhaps maybe i all i'm trying to say is, how may we

help immigrants spread the knowledge, wealth of what we know here to those that have not been given the chance or the opportunities to learn that it could be a better place for them if they were to take control i mean as a majority.e3 >> thank you. thank you for the question. we'll let the panel respond. >> there is, we have advocates for immigrant rights, we think there is a right to migrate in the sense, if you're human being, as a human being you have the right to live in conditions worthy of human life. so no one should be condemned to live in bad human conditions. if you can't find those conditions in your homeland, that presumes a right to look for them elsewhere. but that right to migrate is also balanced by the right not to migrate. people should not be forced to

leave their homelands and many times they are being forced to leave their homelands by, you know, by political policies, by gang warfare by extreme poverty so that's, you know, those are the, you know, there is push and pull factors about immigration. but, part of it also is, the new reality that we're living in the world today which is called globalization. our world has shrunk because of technological innovation because of communications innovations. just think you know, products made in china are sold in miami. so merchandise products, cross borders every day. money crosses borders in an instant, you know, through, electronic banking.

the only, and so do people cross borders. and, you know, what we're discussing is, the dramatic ways in which many people cross borders. people are crossing borders all the time. for, fortunate number of them they come with proper documents et cetera, et cetera, but there is a number that is left out. ref few -- refugees are another issue. people forced to leave because of politics or because of economic reasons. so, you know, migration is a reality that is part of our globalized world. and we're trying to respond to it in a human way. and, win way to respond to it is constructing laws that are just and human that serve the common good. and i think immigration reform

serves the common good. as far as the cuban adjustment act i think it's a template to serve as a model how we treat other groups of immigrants because it worked so very well with the cubans. we don't see anything like that happening yet. although in the late '80s or early '90s there was something for the nicaraguan community which was a kind of a cuban adjustment act for nicaraguans. and it helped that population in that thing. i remember soon as obama took office we were pushing for tps for haitian immigrants. we were rebuffed. napolitano refused us how many times? but, then the earthquake came. and, because of the earthquake then tps was granted to haitians here. tps, temporary protective

status. there are hondurans in this country since hurricane mitch on temporary protective status. that is almost 30 years now isn't it? 20 plus years. 20 plus years. salvadorans around washington, d.c. a good number have tps because of earthquake issues in, in, central america. right now the haitians are being, haitians that have family members that are approved, can come to the united states at least, if they're approved within the next two years they can come here and wait in the united states for their green card, rather than staying in haiti because of the situation in haiti is deteriorating. so that is a humanitarian gesture. they don't get the green card ahead of anybody else. but they can come to the united states, join their families. get work permit and wait for

their green card, some type of a half -- something, better than nothing, but could have been a lot more generous. so yeah, there is, so the cubans really have the gold standard as far as the adjustment act and again i think it's it is one way to look at it as a, less, let's treat everybody he will as well as we treated the cubans. and, and i think it would have the, a positive effect. but i don't think that is going to be much of a chance. i say let's work on immigration reform and get it done for everybody. go ahead. >> you have to remember the context for the creation of the cuban adjustment act. this is immediately after bay of pigs. disappointment. people feeling let down. the american administration not

being there to provide support. so a number of things sort of collided or converged to sort of compel the congress to create this, to pass this law, all right? but in addition to the law, there was so much support, that is built into the cuban adjustment act in the form of help to, so people reconstruct and rebuild their lives. and i think cubans, probably by fault, correct me if i'm wrong the only immigrant group in the history of the united states to benefit from this rich support, not just in terms of the law the ability to arrive and be eligible for the green card into your arrival and five years later citizenship but all the support, right? support to help you pick up yourself and figure out the way that this country works right? i don't think that is extended to other groups. unless they're designated as

asylees or refugees correct? correct me if i'm wrong. immigrants no matter where they're going or where they're headed, i want to remind everyone, no one takes this kind of decision lightly. you don't take a cruise when you decide to jump into a raft to come to the united states. that is not a cruise, right? the ship is barely seaworthy. i call it ship. maybe my vocabulary is escaping me but the thing they travel in is not seaworthy. generally, we don't know numbers of people who have drowned at sea. we don't know numbers of people who have become dinners for the sharks and so, i just want to remind us that no one make this is decision lightly. and next time you are on a cruise, i invite you to just go up on deck top, at night and look at, look at what you see out there. you see nothing but pitch

blackness, right? and so that is, that is the climate or that is the backdrop of the travel that someone knows when they come to the united states through a makeshift raft or, whatever it is that they create to try to cross over. that is not a decision people take lightly. . .

we want to get the education. we want to have the opportunity to be whoever we can be. it's the only country in the world where you can be born in the shelter and know that if you put your mind to it and you work hard every day, you can become the president of this university, or you can become the head of the hospital. while there are other countries in the world with opportunities the opportunities are here let me qualify that, is more than it is anywhere else. so you find people from all over the world want to come to america for that opportunity. we happen to live in south florida which is the gateway to latin america and the caribbean but if you go to other states throughout the united states you will find other pockets of immigrants. you will find pockets of africans pockets of indians pockets of russians, yugoslavians, and they are all going through the same type of

immigration battles that we go through here in south florida, but we know the battle or the plight of patients and the cubans and the nicaraguans and the jamaicans because that's the majority of who we are here. so why don't people go back to their country? that's kind of a political answer. you posted your political show. is what can be done from a government perspective to help other countries to build their economies so that less people will want to come here from an economic perspective. the state department under it hillary clinton's leadership saw the importance of what's called the diaspora. so i'm a member of the jamaican diaspora because i am no longer living in my country. giftiest a member of the haitian diaspora living here. the state department -- gepsie. under leaderships the importance of the diaspora and so there has

been programs that are been put in place for different members of the diaspora to come together to see how they can benefit their home countries. and as jamaicans we do that. i know the haitian community also has a very vibrant diaspora. so that's one way that you can help to stop the pull factor. but the push factor rather, but the pull factor is always going to be there where people are always going to want to come to america because it's the shiny beacon in the world of everything that you can achieve. and to the young man who missed the daca by 30 days, you certainly would've been you are an example of somebody who would've benefited from the president's executive action because the executive action changed the date. it moved it up. [inaudible] >> all, you can within the timeframe that you came 30 days

to old? okay, too old, yes. so you are really an example of somebody who needs over all immigration reform in order to change your status spent if you had to take him and hope will lead you don't at your age -- if you had a kid and hopefully don't at your age. >> to be an unaccompanied minor must be a frightening experience. even though you're a young man you come, and your journey may not have been an easy one. we don't know. but i can only imagine not having, if you don't have family here, how difficult it is to be able to face the trials and tribulations of coming to a different country which is formed on multiple levels. is frightening. part of the problem of trying to assist with unaccompanied

minors, particularly the many who were under the age of 12 is who propels them to come equipped with a really unaccompanied? to the have parents who are here? many of them are not going to courts. it's a very complex system, it is something that i find very interesting, and we danced a little bit over the 2016 presidential election. some things i find gratifying is that two possible republican candidates who come from florida, marco rubio and jeb bush have both talked about understanding of the opportunities here. if they were in similar situations they would do the same thing. and for the benefit of the families would come over here and break the law. the struggle that someone has is that there is this misunderstanding of breaking the law, being here illegally is, if

i've got it right, it's a civil offense and is not a felony. it's not -- but unfortunately there is a huge misunderstanding different had issue. marco rubio gets heckled a lot and he gets criticized a lot because he was on the forefront of immigration reform on the senate side, and then he pushed back because it in didn't like the bill at the end of the. he doesn't get the credit for bringing it forward and having it approved, and he doesn't get credit then after for trying to walk it back. but i will tell you something about marco rubio, and that was that before the president, six months before the president did he for action i called his office and asked if i could take a number of undocumented students to him so that he could

get a sense of who they were and speak to him and see if there was something we could do with immigration reform. he accepted, and there were maybe eight or nine students who went. some gave their full name, some only came -- some only get a first and because the mistrustful. senator rubio at the appointed time was only in office six-month or so. and maybe less. he had a very frank conversation with these students of what could be done and what could not be done. he allowed them approximately two our meeting, he allowed them to speak about what that experience what it was about. they asked if we are legalized, if we are not and i think they spoke about legalization but it was really not to fear deportation. what does that imply? do we get social security numbers? to we get an opportunity to the driver's license?

what happened to our parents was a big concern because we live with our parents, will they be kept whole? it was a fascinating process and it started what i think is an important conversation and gabby was a part of the crew. for those the minute know, she was one of the leaders who really started the d.r.e.a.m. act from miami dade college and in that conversation it was obvious that gabby, because of her age, was not going to be included in what was being proposed at the time and, indeed, is aged out for daca as well. so you're not alone in missing a because of age but that's not to say you can't contribute and that you aren't an important part of this conversation in the committee. i just wanted you to know that. i find it ironic that we struggle with this conversation

today, and yet tell me if this isn't strange. we are allowing people to pay for visas to come here. it's called easy five. we've even dropped the thresher which i'm not saying having had a million dollars is easy if you $500,000 you can get a visa to come to miami and you can promise 10 jobs that you will create with this investment. you don't have to prove that they actually occur but you can promise 10 jobs. we are selling visas to this country. with people of value here who deserve the right to not fear -- not a right to fear deportation but who deserve the benefit to be here and to not fear deportation. >> we need immigration reform comprehensive immigration reform. we've got to get we shouldn't just give up on this congress. we have to keep on asking people in this congress. and i think that daca will on

the table, that the judge put it on a stay but that could be overruled and might take some time for it to be overruled. when it gets overruled, then it will be, you know it will be in effect. this time right now for those who could be potential beneficiaries of it, it's time for them to gather up their documentation. there's going to be a lot of paperwork, rent receipts from all these types of things lawyers will be asking. you have to say that your money because the u.s. government will charge about 500 bucks to partake in that. and then a lawyer might ask you for a few dollars more too. so i think for those that are potential beneficiaries of this mandate, which it's only a band-aid, they should start preparing their documentation and the money to participate in it, in the eventuality of the

state been overturned. and in the meantime since that's only a temporary solution, we all have to work for comprehensive immigration reform, not only for the beneficiaries of daca for everybody like our friend here. >> i think we have time for maybe a couple more questions. anyone else? please. >> i am a professor of aimless departments, in spite of my accent. and i have a question -- english department. every thing you're saying very interesting and very important in terms of trying to resolve issues. immediate is important. the church is important. law is important. but i haven't heard one element which i think might be also significance of major importance, and that is education. you are talking about putting a

face to the problem. you've talked about who talks about people here? you talk about the law, you talk about different procedures, you talk about a lot of technical things which are very important. i do not deny the significance of it but how about education? is there a role for education to play in advancing the cause that you have so eloquently advocating? thank you. >> education has always been on the forefront of this debate all along. educational institutions have been the primary proponent of the d.r.e.a.m. act in particular. but to show you how complicated it is, we did not get state tuition waiver for undocumented students on state tuition. we didn't get our form of the d.r.e.a.m. act until just last year. it was just absolutely astounding, a state where immigration, where the hispanic

population is so significant. i mean, it's been there but for some reason or other it gets, educational institutions push for somebody different things. at the end of the day i think the into pulling back on some things because they have come in legislatures they have budget interest they need to push more strongly than other issues. but i would say that education has been at the forefront of this debate, as happened hospitals as well. >> and the human faces. i see them in my use every sunday, and you see them in the desks in front of you every day. that's the human face. so education like the churches can put a human face on this issue. because really we are not talking about statistics. we are talking about human beings, men, women and children that are whose lives whose features are affected by a

broken system. somebody said, you know, as i like to say immigration law is not criminal law it's civil law. so being out of step is not a criminal offense. it's a civil offense. so to call undocumented aliens lawbreakers is a bit of a misnomer. in reality, they are not breaking the law as much as the law is breaking them. and that's why the law is unjust and that's why the law has to be changed. >> and the fiu, the panel that is being done here today i'm sure i speak for everybody when i say thank you for hosting us and for providing an opportunity for many others to see this discussion. and this could just be one of many that is held. but certainly there's a certain amount of fear in the community. you talk about some of the

students not getting the last thing. there is this fear of deportation that is very real. and from time to time national in washington will send an e-mail. there's a reporter doing a story and they want to see a particular person who fits the demographic, and she can't find anybody because nobody wants to come forward to put a face on it. and so that becomes a little difficult -- [inaudible] >> hospitality industry a few years ago. the feds would come in and they would just let everybody out. and then so that's where the fear. we didn't have this kind of fear 10 years ago. we have this fear now. >> it was always there. the fear was always there. >> is more than a fear. it's a reality. in the past six years more people have been deported than in the past 10, 15 years. >> but to address i think

another element of your comment i think in the advocacy community we need to step up. the education that i think i am hearing you speak of through may be creating more opportunities to share the success stories of immigrants to this country, on the one hand. and on the other to remind our american brothers and sisters them to remind our country of our history and heritage as a land of immigrants, i'll and, you know whose riches are today, whose riches we all enjoy benefits of today. created and built upon continuously by immigrants. so yes, we have a lot more work to do in terms of community education. >> the whole of humanity. >> yes, absolutely. your applet right about that. just a thought to throw out there. it's going to be interesting also to see if jeb bush were to run for president, he married a

mexican. he's not talking -- and he did peace corps and that's what he matter in mexico city. so it's not one of those things come,it would be interesting to see how that plays. i was thus inducing how we presented as cpac, a conservative -- in the republican party. 2530 people walked out but the rest state committee got a very big applause and he has been a pro-immigration reform to do that to me says something that i think we've reached a tipping point and things are beginning to change in a positive way for this country. but now it needs political will. and you've every right to sit there and think, oh really? but i will try something. a couple weeks ago what the john boehner do? he passed the department of homeland security bill said forget the hazard role. let's vote this up or down and to pass. you know what? the world as we know what

continued. and i think that's a lesson that maybe others are going to notice that the bread still continues to be sliced. >> it's interesting to talk about jeb bush because his name cannot be mentioned on any of the national media circuits in conjunction with his possible run for presidency without talking about you know how his stance on immigrate is going to fall out. i would hope that he would step up to the plate and that i think is a problem that people have with politicians in general, and with marco rubio in particular, is because of his wishy-washy i'm on the fence i'm off the fence, nobody knows where he stands introduced the bill but i'm not going to back it which are not coming up with an alternative announce your hands off immigration as if all your family came over on the mayflower. so it's a problem and if

politicians will stand up for what they believe and i think people have a lot more respect for them. i certainly would respect jeb bush if he steps up to the plate. i mean i'm not going to vote for him but i will certainly respected for stepping up and taking on immigration and putting where he stands on the. >> absolutely. >> they say that making laws are like making sausage so it's a very -- >> it's not pretty. >> not a pretty process. but i think, you know there's got to be a way to get beyond the logjam. i don't think the republican party is completely restrictionist as there are certainly some restrictionist in that party, you know very strong anti-immigration. there are some on the democratic side as well. but i think we have to appeal to the good angels on everybody's

side and again, remind people that the politics is a noble vocation and it's about the common good. one of the areas that touches on the common good of everyone in this country today is our broken immigration system and it needs to be fixed. >> thank you to the wonderful panel and thank you all for being here. [applause] >> and good afternoon. [inaudible conversations] >> world bank president jim yong kim speaks at the center for strategic and in the for strategic and a new study say about anything global poverty. you can see his remarks live at 9:30 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> next, a conversation with

david nelms, the head of discover financial services. he spoke about changes to the financial services industry cost of technology, regulation and fraud, and that this affects consumers. is interviewed by former obama council of economic advisers chair, austan goolsbee. it's 45 minutes. >> thank you john for the. under delighted to be here with you guys. we're going to discuss or we're going to hear from david about the digitization changing economic trends can have this going to impact financial services as well as partners, customers, et cetera. i'm honored to introduce david. all of you know him already but let me just give you the background you already know. as you know know he is the chairman and ceo of discover financial services, which means he's responsible for the company's

credit cards student loans, personal loans home equity loans, mortgages cds money market accounts and checking account services, in addition he oversees the discover network a comprehensive payment network one of the nations leading into networks, diners club international, a global payment networks, and serves as chairman of discover bank the issuing fake for the discover card brand. before his appointment in discover in 1998 david served as vice chairman of mdma america bank, and prayed as he held management positions at progressive insurance ge and a consulting come to. he has a bachelors degree in mechanical engineering from the university of florida and an mba from harvard business school. in addition to all of those responsibilities at discover, he is a board member of ctw director and past chairman of the executive's club of chicago

and the federal reserve bank of chicago's representative on the federal advisory council to the board of governors of the federal reserve system in washington. he is also chairman of the board at junior achievement of chicago, a board member of the financial services roundtable, and a member of the civic committee of the commercial club of chicago. from 2008-2014, he was a member of the international board of the juvenile diabetes research foundation here if you can't compete in the chairman of all of those things and he is still a very decent guy and so please join me in give a warm welcome to david nelms. [applause] >> with that introduction we're out of time. [laughter] it is an honor to be here. i've been active as a smidgen in the executive's club for many years, and so i do know very well the vital role this

organization placed in the civic life of our city. how fortunate we all are to call chicago our home, even on a very cold day in february. from fortune 500 companies to vibrance startup companies from world-class universities and research labs to our position as a key transportation hub chicago really has it all. discover is proud to be a hometown company. we were created up to sears in 1986 when we were launched with a super bowl ad and that was the year that the chicago bears won the game. so we've always been based here in the chicago area. we became a stand-alone public company spinning out of morgan stanley in 2007 at are proud to be one of the 32 fortune 500 companies that are headquartered here in the chicago area. today i would like to share a few thoughts about the age of digital transformation that we all find ourselves in. whatever your industry, and i know there's a lot of different

industries represented here today, you are likely facing a time of extraordinary change and destruction. for health care business is transformed, so is the energy business the consumer product sector is transforming and so is telecom. and yet the financial services is transforming in indeed in meaningful ways. i've been a financial services for many years and i can tell you that there's never been a time when the case was quicker, the challenge is more diverse or the opportunities greater. this transformation is the result of course of technology but more specifically the way technology is changing our culture. how it is transforming the habit and expectations of consumers. to begin it's not hyperbole to say financial service over the last century have reinvented money or at least the way money is exchanged. i doubt anyone here will be surprised to learn that electronic transactions, mostly

card transactions, have overtaken cash as a primary means of payment in the united states. but what may be surprising to you is that my next u.s. card transactions are expected to be more than double the combined total of all cash and check transactions. globally the majority of transactions are still done via cash but card users are expected to overtake cash by 2017. the second trend we see is that direct banking is here and it is the future. the trend in retail banking is a direct channel such as online mobile, phone and mail. according to the american bankers assocation direct channels are preferred by 54% of customers compared with only 21% who prefer branches, and 14% who prefer atms. many people use multiple channels, and as was mentioned brands are not going away. but there has been a huge transformation in that percentage of people who say and what they prefer digital and

that's what they use more and more on a daily basis. the trend is only going to accelerate thanks to demographics. younger consumers are less hung up on having a brick-and-mortar location down the street. many already do all their banking through online mobile and phone. the most significant trend though of course is the related topic which is mobile. everything is moving to the phone. the phone is becoming the real-time access device, not just for financial services but for virtually every other part of life as well. number of mobile app users that discover has doubled in the last two years, and over half of those users are mobile only users. the smartphone is the hub for shopping, social media travel, entertainment, finance, e-mail and texting. it's hard to imagine that some people even use them for phone calls. to give an idea of how things are changing consider the open table that. with open table you can find a

restaurant make a reservation, monitor your tab throughout your meal and then pay your bill all without ever taking your wallet out of your pocket. you can still use your discover card because your card is the underlying funding source, but there's no need to get out to walk in and the card to someone. that's just one example of the type of seamless transaction we can expect more and more of in the years ahead. in fact i'm constantly amazed at the end of the new apps that are being developed. have you ever heard of i took a quick the alarm app that automatically since my teacher did every time you hit the snooze button. [laughter] that will either make you very prompt or very generous but either way you are a winner. but it is financial services app that are the fastest-growing apps up over 50% from last year, double the rate social media apps. again it's all built around the smartphone, these real-time customizable and upgradable devices open up worlds of

opportunity to completely transform how we engage in commerce and in payment. looking ahead, phones will become the access device at point-of-sale versus cards and typical wallets. indeed, we're fast approaching a world where commerce and payments will seamlessly blend as on the channel shopping takes hold. urchins and payment providers are working on solutions that will provide the customer with a consistent experience across all channels, instore, online and mobile, including ways to easily integrate reward and loyalty programs. one way that discover, one example is the we discover in amazon partnered to integrate discover cashback bonus rewards into the amazon checkout experience. it's unbelievably simple when a discover card member shops at amazon.com the are automatically offered the option to be with the cashback bonus during the checkout process. it's like getting something for free and it couldn't be easy.

in fact, i recently purchased a full-size refrigerator from amazon, paid for with my discover cashback bonus and had it delivered to my home all without leaving my home or getting a card out of my wallet. finally, there's an explosion in the amount of data available. the consumer's digital footprint barely existed a few years ago but today it is huge and moving into the cloud. information is more valuable and more enabling anyone could have imagined just a decade ago. industry players are working to learn more about consumer behavior and desires, and develop more value added service. when it comes to big day the goal for this is like discover is simple. how do we use that data to get the right information to the right customer in the right place and at the right time? all this transformation and destruction can feel a bit like a headwind or a tailwind, and sometimes it can feel it for both in same day. destruction is something we had

discover relished the we were born out of the banking industry but like most of our competitors but from the merchant site. we built our own broad merchant network from scratch, the only success want to be built in the last 40 years. we further disrupted the industry by inventing a card with cash rewards and no annual fee and by being the first major credit card company to offer 24 by seven customer service. providing the type of value and innovative service was unique in the industry and led to many competitors following suit. going forward it's my job to make sure that the innovative spirit that has served discover so well throughout its history continues to drive us into the future. the range of initiatives that our team is working on is too long to detail but let me share a worldview. we don't think of ourselves as a transaction company. we are a customer experience company. for many companies a transaction is just a transaction but for the consumer, it's often a broader experience that can

spend months or years. a customer might buy a product only to return to a three months later, or they might not make the final payment for several years. so the broader customer experience encompasses many potential touch points and many opportunities to add value including the customers research of the discovery process the relevant offers on mobile devices that are pin point accurate geolocation and your preferences. and flexible financing, a wide variety of payment options that fiscal point-of-sale or online. dealing with returns and disputes, rewards and retention offers, real-time spending and account information and financial tools to manage your money. behind every significant purchase consumers consciously or subconsciously ask themselves some fundamental questions. can i afford this? am i paying too much for? with the financial exchange the secure?

what if i had a problem after i buy it? helping customers with questions like these is a big part of our value proposition that discover and i'm proud to say were quite good at it but don't take my word for it. our leadership in this area was affirmed lesher went discover have the highest-ranking in the 2014 credit card satisfaction study. so how do we do it? how do we approach the task of creating a richer customer experience? i believe it can be summarized along three lines tech touch and trust. tech is about staying ahead of the technology curve. it's a challenging but it is essential. the key is to focus on simplicity of interaction, ease-of-use, ease of communication and intuitive design and we focus on all those things as we develop our award-winning website and at that discover. master we became the first card issuer to support iowa state, the first with fingerprint login, the first with a passcode

lock and and the first pre-login account information. features like these are important because in addition to added value, customers want convenience and simplicity. they also want connection with us and with the future, which is why touch is important to touch is about providing help when customers need it. it's about maintaining the options for customer to speak to a live person anytime they want. you might've seen this as a focus of much of our advertising in recent years. these one on one exchange is our import which is we don't outsource or offshore our credit card customer service. when a card member calls discover they can be well-trained and highly committed discover employed at one of our u.s. customer care centers. we take great care to make sure that all of our support platforms, website, call centers, automated phone systems, online chat, e-mail and mobile support worked together. touched is also about adding

values -- adding value in ways the customer is not expected in 2014 we live in history i providing free michael critical to all discover card numbers on the study. you may see an r-rated super bowl ad which featured free ficus course as we continue to show how discover treats you like you treat you. also in 2014 we enhanced what many regard as the best cash rewards program in the industry by making it possible to redeem your report any about and by guaranteeing that those rewards never expire. i have talked about tech and touch and that brings us to trust. unfortunately, there've been dozens of i profiled data breaches in the united states in recent years, and hundreds more that often got less attention. many people have been affected. a global survey showed 27% of cardholders have experienced fraud in the last five years. one of our most important task right now in the financial

services industry is to address the challenges of data security and fraud prevention so that our customers can continue to use electronic payments with confidence. to be sure credit card transactions so many advantages over other forms of payment. credit card customers can review charges on the statement before paying and are not liable for fraud, but we need to do more as an industry to protect customers, and we are. this year the u.s. marketplace is transitioning to the emb chip card. it's a big change. merchants will be purchasing and installing about 12 million new point-of-sale terminals. not all merchants will make the transition this year but many will including nearly all of the larger merchants. which means it's a big change not just for banks and merchants but also for the millions of customers who would receive new cards and shop at the merchant.

the good news is the emb chip cards will provide a number of security benefits. it will be very difficult for fraudsters to produce counterfeit chip cards. and if we eventually transition to chip and p.i.n. transactions instead of just chip and signature we difficult for crooks to use stolen credit cards at the point-of-sale. that said i should note that there is no silver bullet. when you fix one thing the fraud tends to shift to another place. and in this case fraud will likely shift to online and card not present transaction. so the industry is working on standards for tokenization and enhanced authentication to make online and card not present transactions more secure as well. over all i would say that our industry is mobilized and takes security very seriously. it's difficult to mobilize an entire ecosystem given all the players involved but we are definitely making progress. now that he spent just a moment

talking about a financial services and societal issue that we're concerned with here at discover. it's the issue of student debt in this country. student loan debt now exceeds $1 trillion which is significant larger than the entire credit card or the entire auto loan industries. more than $100 billion in new student loans are originated every year. about 94% of student loans are federal, only 6% are private student loans. that's an important distinction, so let me explain. discover is one of one of a handful of u.s. banks that provide private student loans. we work with students parents and about 2200 nonprofit graduate schools to help fill the gap in funding for college education after the student and family have access personal grants and scholarships. we do not see the kinds of excesses or delinquencies that

we are observing in the federal student loan system. think about the problems we had usually go when lax underwriting in mortgage lending lead to a crash in the housing market. federal student lending doesn't just have lax underwriting. it has no underwriting. i don't believe anybody is well served by government loans that saddle students with too much debt for a chosen school board agreed, or even worse with debt and no degree for students who don't finish college. the end result is often the fault which represents a huge potential burden to taxpayers and to society. and, therefore, impacts significantly financial services industry as well. but even more concerning is the impact of the massive student loan debt on individual consumers. default and debt are reducing fico score for young people to recent data shows 30 year old college graduates with student debt are now less likely to own a home than non-college graduates.

the most important solution needed is underwriting and maybe consideration of income requirements for taxpayer backed loans. federal disclosures should also be strengthened to be consistent with private student loan requirements. colleges also have some responsibility. financial aid officers should be responsible for better advising and educating students. colleges need to better contain tuition prices and seek or non-loan funded options for certain students and perhaps it should have some s.t.e.m. in the game for loans that are made to students who don't achieve a degree. recent income-based repayment plans are helping some borrowers but they treat the symptoms, not the original problem of over borrowing at taxpayer expense. discovers did a lot to students and parents navigate the world of financing a college education. if you go to student loans.com

oura website, you will find much more information. the other thing i would like to say that young people is the key to a brighter financial future is knowledge. we at discover they financial education and financial literacy a part of our mission. we are delighted to produce but in junior achievement especially as chicago celebrate its 75th anniversary by teaching over 500,000 students in chicago financial literacy this year. additionally we at discover are well on well into our pathway to financial success program, a five year $10 million commitment to bring financial education to our nation's high school. so far we've made 8 million in grants, 900 schools and school districts covering all 50 states, including a $1 million grant writer in chicago to chicago public schools. now let me leave you with a few comments about one final thing. the best way to achieve a great

into and expense for customers and the way to lead with technology and capability is often by partnering with other companies. discover is one of the most vertically integrated and focused companies in financial services. we are a bank and the network with direct relationships ranging from consumers to merchants. yet we choose to partner with others rather than go it alone. we partner with other banks and networks around the world. we partner with universities to ensure student loans are used for educational expenses and to help avoid over borrowing. by partnering with others, discovers grown dramatically over the past five just by almost -- total loans deposit transactions on a global network, and net income. perhaps the most dramatic demonstration of the power of partnering is the way we've grown acceptance of our cards with merchants. six years ago discover was privately a domestic card company. you could use our cards at about

6 billion u.s. merchant locations. today you can use our cards at more than 30 million merchant locations and 185 countries, and territories around the world. a big part of how we got there was by partnering with other industry players. clearly partnering has worked very well for discover and for our customers, business partners and shareholders as well. and certainly anything we do in the technology area involves partnering with other companies as well. so today more than ever it pays to discover. so in summary financial services like most other industries is being transformed by technology, especially smartphones and it is going to record the explosion of data and capabilities can be both a threat and an opportunity. i think being nimble with technology and having a customer experience focus is critical to success.

security is a growing threat not just in financial services but to all of us in this interconnected world. federal student loan debt is an issue we need to deal with that's having unattended personal taxpayer and economic consequences. and, finally partnering well is critical to most of us to serving customers well. and with that i think will move to q&a and i look forward to your questions. thank you. [applause] >> i have got sitting in front of the computer that you can text your questions to you and the instructions should be on your table. first, you spoke about security and he spoke about partners. we have a couple of questions that maybe i will combine into one, which is we have heard a

number of security breaches not at the individual, not so much a person got your number and called it, but at the retailers that they go through target, go to home depot, whatever. how do we make the full system safe? how do you get partners to improve their security? how do we make consumers comfortable that they are not going to lose their financial information? or worse, have their money taken. >> well first, as i mentioned consumers are protected from the financial consequences, but it still can be incredibly inconvenient and disturbing to have your personal information compromise. one of the things that makes it so difficult is there are so many different points of entry.

i mentioned 30 million global merchant locations. everyone of them are potential place to come in. we connect to lots of other financial institutions. generally speaking, banks have been ahead of other industries because money tends to be what people are most after, so if these are first at the bank -- these. but they tend to migrate more to retailers in recent years because they were easier targets. those merchants have beefed up their defenses as well. but i think that the key thing is to recognize that progress is being made but we're going to continue to have breaches different types of bridges, move to different entities. it's not going to go away for the foreseeable future. i think the final thing i would

say is from a personal perspective you should feel confident using electronic transactions. we've got a lot more transactions than cash if you lose your wallet. so it's the best way to pay, but you ought to pay attention. you ought to pay attention to your bill. you ought to pay attention particularly to phishing attacks, because one of the most common methods that you don't read about as much but is always, you click on the wrong button and suddenly your computer is infected and it is sucking the information out. i think there are roles for the banks, roles for retailers and there's a role for individual consumers, and we all have to be on guard for what a really pervasive attacks today. >> you may have seen we've all gotten the nigerian businessman sends you the thing but they have gotten more sophisticated

and now the new one is in the uk. janet yellen and -- it says my name is mervyn king. i was the chairman of the bank of england. and it talks about -- now he wants to share some of that with you. so mervyn king send you an eno don't click on it. >> the obvious ones are pretty easy. the obvious ones are getting more and more sophisticated. we get attacked by our people getting notes from social at the federal reserve. i better opened this. this is from david nelms, i better opened this. we've gotten to the point where we actually, through education of our people we actually send fake fake e-mails to see how many people click on them and went 30% of them click on them they get reeducated. >> okay. totally different. we've got two or three questions

about let's call them digital wallet apple pay, paypal, the evolution of alternative payment systems. what does this mean for the credit card industry? what does it mean for consumers? where do you see this trend heading? >> when i mentioned partners, these are some of the new partners that are really exciting. because for the consumer there's going to be just an explosion of ways to pay and capability and an integration of payment with commerce. and i think there will be both integration and simplicity. if you think about apple one click, you click on it and it just happens. the goods get shipped, you don't even think about payment because it's in the wallet. and i think that generally

speaking these new entities are all the wallet's. they all hold payment information, and then the other capabilities loaded on top. and so from my perspective none of these new entities want to make the loans or become a regular to bank holding company certainly, but they all need payment rail. and fundamentally every transaction you make goes back to either a bank account or to a credit card account. you could have prepaid, so they've got to ride our rails to get back to those accounts. >> those were in the spirit of let's call it integration consolidating. then you've got a question here about the desegregating and devolution of industry to lending club orbit going our

whatever -- then taking part little pieces of the bank where they do get into lending wanted to get into kind of a deep plumbing of the financial system. do you think that will be enabled by the fact that maybe they have less regulation or will be deemphasize going forward because it's a little more of a wild west environment? >> you know i purposely stayed away from talk about regulation because i spend 99% of the rest of my time on regulation. but there's no doubt that the much more expensive regulation is pushing some people out of the traditional financial system into less regulated entities. an example, in credit card, people who have spotty credit is

able to get a credit card with a low lying. they can't do that anymore. they are at a payday lender, somewhere else paying much higher rates at a place with less regulation. so i think that the consumer protection bureau theoretically has jurisdiction over non-banks but it's a whole lot easier to regulate a big bank then it is 30,000 payday lenders that can open and shut on a whim. and so i think that as a society we need to be careful about the over regulation. we need to have smart regulation. we need to get the pendulum qaeda more in the middle, go back to where we were before the crisis but not be so extreme that we squeeze people completely out of the system. i think if people are adopting some of these new wallets and so

on, those are instrumental opportunities. those things i think have lots of upside. if they are going to other places because it's the last resort, they can no longer access the traditional system that the source of traditional funding for checking accounts that used to fund everyone now means high minimums and no more free checking that effectively pushes people out. i think we should be concerned with. >> a bunch of people, they want to press you get what you think of the consumer financial protection bureau? it sounds like the kind of addressed this issue of unintended consequences that we want to think through. are there other areas of federal policy which with the rise of technology they have become either more or less effective, that the federal government

can't do its job or is better able to do its job because these things have changed? >> well, i'm not sure i'm going to answer that exact question, but one thing to think about is how much more involved the federal government is in our consumer financial system in this country than in almost any other country in the world. and if you think about the fact that we own freddie and fannie, and so we, basically we have nationalized most of the mortgages which is the biggest asset class for consumer the second biggest class is nested loans. i mentioned 94% of the is government government balance sheet. i haven't quite figured out whether china and the government owned banks is more are less controlled by the government, but i mean we currently unless we do something with freddie and fannie and student loans

there's just we are heavily government banks as opposed to traditional private banks. it's not free enterprise. i think it's not a particularly healthy place to be but it's tough to find the will to say okay, what are the actual going to do with freddie and fannie as an example of? >> so you look at the economic trends. one of the ones on everyone's mind is rising income inequality, stagnation of middle-class income, what the sources are, with the future is. how does that the virgins if you will, between different parts of the country, how does that affect the strategy of financial services businesses? is it the case that high-end cards are doing better and low end cards are doing worse?

how do you see that playing out? >> i do think this is one area where direct banking can help because it is traditionally very expensive to serve low balance customers, low usage customers. and so the prospect and we conserve some of these customers with new products virtually without branches, maybe without people, with much more self-service i think that is one of the best hopes for helping to keep people, you know, not just provide great service for high-end customers but provide a cost-effective and low-cost method. so i think that is a promising aspect. >> this then asks about different age groups. so as millennials gain wealth

and come to outnumber the baby boomers, do you plan to modify your approach to gain market share? >> will put a particular emphasis on students and young people because, you know there are switching costs and there's there is a certain momentum once someone has a bank account, they will tend to stay, especially checking. but the young people are more used to direct banking and correct everything in the first place, and so if you can kind of get in the door with their first account, i think that is going to be what probably all of us in financial services are going to you be particularly focus on the been working on retaining the people we already have. >> a couple of business site questions. how do you budget for innovation when the possibility and size of

the payoff and the presence of destruction is so uncertain? and related, how do you measure roi on digital transformation initiatives in this environment? >> that sometimes can be, these sometimes can get the details of how many people are going to be not calling her a call center because there are self-serving on your website so you can run an roi on some projects but other projects don't lend themselves to the. free geico was one -- fifo was one way to take a leap of faith and we had to put in the technology but it's like you can tell what is going to cost you system was to buy fy12 scored begin to what is going to cost you on the phone call because it's going to generate calls when people say what is, why is it going up or down? but there's a certain number of

things i do think you have to take on faith. we do have a history of being first. yours ago as an example we were the first to start sending e-mail alerts when you're about to go over limit. why would i do this? we felt like we would get enough in the retention to offset the immediate costs. so i look at the big picture outcome. our average customer has been with us for 12 just the the average in the card industry is eight years. that's part of what our good is better because longtime customers tend to forbear the short-term customers. it's a little bit sometimes it's a little bit like advertising. it's hard to measure the roi of an individual campaign budget a look at the overall brand measures and jeff to use some judgment and it's a very important thing to try to try

to prioritize and it's a very important thing to not just do things that have an easy our ally. >> organizationally, as an executive, one person asks how have you organized your own leadership and your team around the client experience? ..