>> they want somebody who looks like he has stood up for them.

i'm amazed to the degree to which primary voters on both sides are motivated by resentment and a sense of being put upon. those people really don't understand us and here's a guy who does understand us and he's going to stick it to them. that happens on both sides. hillary clinton will give her own version of that kind of thing. and i don't think that was actually true 30 years ago. resentment has always been part of politics obviously but the degree to which is almost exclusively the motivating factor and truly committed republicans and democrats.

>> host: april ryan and don't think and the african-american reporter has covered the white house as long as you have been now you have taken the clinton

bush 43 and obama years and written about them through the prism of something that is important to your listeners on american urban radio networks and that is the issue of race relations in the united states. i have to ask you when you first arrived at the white house in 1997 did you imagine that you would ever be there to cover the first african-american president? >> guest: never. just saying that i'm getting chills as you said that. in my home we had pictures of john kennedy. >> host: this is growing up. >> guest: growing up in my home in baltimore, pictures of kennedy and mark luther king and we had seen unsuccessful attempts by african-americans to become president. i've heard for many people right now in this town who may not want to say this but they said rocco obama had a special kind of juice and he must have because for so many years they

thought maybe a white woman would get the position first before a black man into the old essay that i have covered the first lack president is just amazing. >> host: timing is everything in life and actually i think you first net him when he was a senator. you were covering the white house. >> guest: during the bush years. there's a thing called stakeout and all the reporters gather outside after the meetings with the presence of principles and they come outside of the west wing door at the front entrance of the west wing. they stand at a bank of microphones for persons with a presence at this time it happened to be the congressional black caucus that had just obtained the newest member senator rocco obama from chicago chicago. everyone was looking for senator obama. i couldn't see him. i was so excited about trying to get an interview with him. at the time it was interesting because i kept remembering where is he and what is his name?

how do you say his name? at that time he was new. he was barack obama but i think i transposed his name but he said first of all i don't remember what i call called them. he said first of all get my name right. [laughter] i was so excited to see him because he was a rock star. this is not about me personally. this was me as a reporter trying to get to him before anyone else and that is the thing in this business. he wants to be the first with the most and i was so excited to get to this new rock star on the hill that i couldn't get his name right. it was a mess. ..

do you think that talking about your time covering the white house can you talk a little bit about how you explain in the book how you were treated as not only an

african-american reporter, but a woman reporter, not, not a lot of women in the press corps. let's start with that 1st year when bill clinton 2nd term and you arrive at the white house to cover sitting in the room everyday. >> guest: it was odd all because our place to gentleman who was iconic there. actually the 1st african-american to become part of the white house press corps his shoes were so hard to fill. when i came to the white house many people resented the fact command i can understand that. also i think coming in and really pressing an urban an african issues african issues it really wasn't on that much as much as i have, erode people around way.

on a daily basis. many people are wondering. i get a lot of pushback. a lot of pushback from within the press corps. people were -- part of this washington press corps coming straight at the baltimore really. there was a lot of pushback. people wondering how she was getting interviews with president clinton and she is not in the pool. i got a lot of pushback. >> let's break it down into three categories. you write about not only your interactions with other reporters, your interactions with presidents, but, of course, press secretaries. talk about a couple of those

moments. moments. start under the bush administration. tony snow was the knew press secretary. what happened with this tar baby comment. >> the 1st day he came into the press briefing he was a rock star in chief. typically your downstairs doing the work. you have your designated seat and feel comfortable that i can wait until the last minute and come up and get your seat. that was not the case to my surprise. every seat was taken standing room only. i was on i was on the right side of the briefing room against the wall. there was a question posed to him command he was explaining what was going on and then said, i'm not going to. [inaudible]

i kind of shrink. that phrase phrase was very sensitive, racially insensitive. >> host: it was from an old story. >> guest: yes. and i actually had that book just to remember that this is what used to be but should not be. and i cannot believe it. you think about the target the rabbit foot put together so that fox would not find the rapid. i said, okay. unfortunately someone stand in front of me and turned to me and said shut up you tar baby. after the press briefing and marched myself up to tony snow's office and he apologized. from that moment on we struck up a relationship a relationship and he apologized for his insensitivity.

he did not realize how insensitive it was. was. to the credit of the white house correspondent situation i talked to mark smith command he addressed the issue and i got an apology. an apology from the reporter. >> guest: from the reporter. people do not understand what happened. so many ripples. and it really affected me that they. >> host: you and i have covered the white house together for many years. the press the press briefings were off-camera largely up until about the time you came. the 2nd term secretary and agreed to do it on camera something you go to regret. >> guest: and i tend i tend to agree that the press briefings are supposed to be

the raw ingredients of news. >> host: but you had a dustup which struck me because i was there for it not because you are an african-american reporter but maybe because you were a woman plan that was with robert gibbs. >> guest: i think you could be wrong about the gender, because i am a woman >> host: tell us what happened. >> guest: it comes with this. the issue is that i am not a part of the mainstream , the 1st and 2nd row. so how dare she. that was the way i felt. how how dare she asked these questions, but they were relevant questions that i i was hearing from my sources inside and outside the white house. it was not a personality issue. it was a real issue.

unfortunately what people were watching was the last day. they did not see the culmination of the two days that crescendoed into that moment. >> host: this is after a couple apparently crashed the 1st obama state dinner and the white house social secretary an african-american woman from chicago friend of theirs was taking heat for dropping the ball on this. and you asked robert gibbs specifically about her role. what was it he said to you? >> guest: he said something to the effect of -- i kept asking. i was our goal of questions to the extent of calm down. and to a great me to a child and there's or and there's nothing wrong with his son, but to equip me to a child, it was disrespectful. and he was angry at the

time. for people to believe there is no retaliation when you ask the white house certain questions, it does not have to be this white house but any white house where there is retaliation command he was seen on television. and then afterward i was fuming that day. i said in my seat. i could not believe it. i could not believe what had happened. i sat there. the next thing i see the doors to the press office open kind it was bill burton as robert gibbs deputy press secretary said come here. i said no. he was shocked. but i said okay. i'm coming. i just did not believe it. what did i do wrong. i asked i asked a legitimate question.

and what happened in my mind -- and relatives and i have come to an understanding and have a decent relationship now but to my understanding of his loyalty there. i supported one another. they were very loyal. there was a faux pas that cause a security breach of the white house. >> host: did you go up and see robert gibbs at that time? >> guest: i did. there were other people in the room. i remember telling me i owed i owed an apology and i said for what. if i did anything to offend the first lady i apologize the people are telling me and i'm getting e-mails and text messages in the lead up to this why did robert gibbs disrespect.

and he said you tell them to e-mail me and i we will talk to them and i said to myself, what did i i do? sometimes it is rough-and-tumble. when you are someone they perceived by yourself without the backing of the larger networks, the backing of having other people being apart. i don't have a lot of focus on that issue to have my back. it felt like i was alone, but i was not. to my surprise many of my fellow correspondents were supportive of me for the fact that that should not have happened that way. a serious amount of questions. the sources that told me stood back and because of that there was change of the white house and they went back to the old procedure of how people to come in.

you have to remember, this remember, this was about the security of this historic presidency and the historic president. and it's not even about him being african-american. it is about the president. that is what it was for me. >> host: talk about the specialty media because a lot of americans may not understand. the major newspapers all have seats. you really do cover the white house and write about in this book from a very particular vantage.which is crucially important to those who listen to you. >> specialty media is not necessarily -- we don't necessarily focus on the traditional. we have a group that does not sit in the front row. a qb radio, newspapers. not abc, cbs, cnn.

we are telemundo revision those types of people from lg bt newspapers to the christian broadcasting, all sorts of different things that are not necessarily a part of an illustrious front >> but you have a seat. >> smack dab in the middle. third row, middle. third row, smack dab in the middle. i used to be in the six through. we moved up. i do have a seat. i think that is because i am there everyday and ask questions and i ask pertinent questions. we we have an audience that they want to get a message to. >> sometimes a president are white house communication operation take advantage of your specialty media by saying we want to get this race story out there, this story out there and seek you

have? >> oh, yes. not me. just recently pres. obama recently president obama did a race interview with pt. reverberated more with pt than with cnn for a pc. when they want to put out information they will go to the go to person. i we will use them at the same time. the washington bureau chief at nbc said sometimes you have to use what you have to your advantage command it was. the fact i am working for a minority company that focuses on urban and african-american issues and i also question other issues as well, mainstream issues. >> how did you deal with that 2nd group? the white house press colleagues. set right down the road from you at abc. you write about asking a question in your 1st

presidential news conference and said that after you asked that question you are treated like media slime. what happened? >> guest: this is a rough-and-tumble business going we're happy for another. why not me. and that is what -- they are asking. i mean i heard recently last couple of times i've got and get my question from the president of the press conferences, the last one and the one around the summertime. why not? you get questions all the time. i seldom get to ask questions in a press conference. but we are a group a hypersensitive group and we all want that moment where we get that question. we want that question.

how did she get it? i think some of that is part of was part of the problem but i was brand spanking new , and i worked hard. >> host: how did you get a question being brand-new? >> guest: at the time it was more open than it is now you were they're when it was much more open than now. >> host: open in what sense? >> guest: you could walk around. i was literally coming in from the outside. i walked into lower press. at that time i think there was a door. this is the staff area. there was a door at the time. you could see people walking back and forth. i happen to be standing there. just the press secretary's office, upper short hallway. >> guest: just outside. outside. i was headed to upper breast see the press secretary.

the secret service is you have to go back and i said they just told me to come. my 1st encounter with the secret service. and so all of a sudden i'm walking down the hall eating a pretzel with pres. bill clinton. he did not not know who i was at the time. and his talking. he stopped in the hallway. okay. he's talking to the staff in the lower press area. i introduced myself. i. i said please call on me, sir. : me at the press conference. he said, okay. the press conference that followed. he didn't, but the next one he did. just saying hello to him.

and i told mike mccurry thank you and sent him a note to say thank you. and he will be you will me back. he wrote a note back on white house letterhead. that is all she wrote. >> host: that is a good one. writing a thank you note for the president breeding a question in. and news conferences you talk about that 1st question when you called yourself media slime. was it the content of your question? and were reporters hostile? >> i don't think it was the content of the question. as a friendly adversarial relationship in the building the american public the american public to some extent don't like us and others do. when we get classified with negatives but it might have been for others.

it may not have. but that was not for them to say. we are they are focusing on one thing and you maybe focusing on another command that is the greatness of having a group of people in that room that ask different questions. but you stay on the same subject. >> host: daily briefings. >> guest: and the press conferences. >> host: let me ask you about george w. bush, a news conference when he had a foreign visitor and you were seated not with the white house press corps. i was seated with the african delegation. and i found that interesting. >> host: y? >> guest: a faux pas a faux pas on the part of the white house. i was told after the fact that i should have been grateful because i was in a

seat possibly be:. >> host: you are sitting with other black reporters. >> guest: and i have no problem with that. it was so on because even my colleagues said said wait a minute what is going on? and president bush even noticed. during a news the news conference he says, why are you sitting over there? and i said, i was placed here. he ate he acknowledged it. he even tried. so it was a faux pas. the chief of staff of the time after that said it was bad. it was a bad move.

after one do you think presidents regarded you differently because you are black, because he represented a specific specialty media, because you were a woman? did it in some ways work to your advantage? >> guest: i believe it did president clinton told me sometimes he did not want to call me because i would get in trouble. with other people they knew. but they did not know what to expect from me and sometimes did not have an announcer. 8000 would not be:. i figured it president clinton told me that, that is the thought going down the line when this was told me during his time in office so it worked in my advantage when they wanted to talk to the committee but it worked my disadvantage because they did not colony very much because they did not know.

it was an interesting dynamic, double-edged sword. >> host: in your book you write extensively to put today's presidents in an historical perspective aware race relations have come in the united states and to make clear that there are still ways to go selma december 1964 the civil rights act has become law and now the focus is turning to the voting rights act. martin luther king jr. is in the white house early president lyndon johnson to move. the film that has come out has been criticized by some for putting lyndon johnson in a very bad light. you write about your conversation with the other person who was in the. >> guest: in the book i

have an exclusive interview with an ambassador who talks to lbj. he he was not only a prominent figure in the civil rights community but a former congressman from georgia a former un ambassador and someone who worked for at that time a relatively low level white house staffer. a credible person them in the room and this is what i don't understand. all of this back and forth. he said in his book that lbj did say that he would not have the power to push it forward. and we were talking about the voting rights act after they successfully get the civil rights act.

rev. joe gerald -- reverend jesse jackson said something very interesting people like doctor king as a marker but not a merger. strategically these civil rights leaders had to figure out how to give him the power. so there were tactics. they had had to work strategically to get the power for this president to go down to alabama. and in the book how at the time three african americans could not be on the street together. it was against the law. after one because that could be considered leading to a protest. >> guest: so they had to find a way to a way to have a meeting to begin the process.

they work through it and had to strategically figure out how to present the situation so that lbj could have the power to push through. this is someone in the room with doctor martin luther king and also reverend jesse jackson. in the in the book on the record talking about this. >> host: there are audio recordings of that. i believe using the transcripts of recordings held at the miller center. and so this should be a pretty well documented fact. are you surprised at the kind of reaction that the movie has brought? is it progress to finally have a movie that has turned out to be a a commercial success about the life doctor martin luther king? >> guest: i think the movie was magnificent.

it brought me to tears. tears. it was an amazing movie to see. i knew what i i knew when i saw the little girls i knew what was going to happen. it brought tears to my eyes. it was very graphic. to see them go back and forth on the bridge cannot understand that i am an african american. if if they had not done this will not be able to talk today. this book would not be here. that movie i don't believe it showed everything because it was very graphic, but it was much more brutal. the movie touched me. i commend i commend opera and all of them. i think it was a wonderful movie. people who want to preserve history people died. this was not an easy struggle. they want to believe it.

people died. so that was some of the impetus. black and white people died. >> host: and the residents are not condoleezza rice was a friend of one of those from birmingham, alabama. and she worked within the bush administration. obviously national security advisor and secretary of state. did she feel she had a race portfolio? >> guest: she is in this book on the record command i think are for truth. he was there and brought to the table. what it was time to have an anniversary event we must have this anniversary event.

i i would not be able to sit at a restaurant. >> host: her father could not vote until 1952 and she 1952 and she cannot go to a restaurant with her family until 1964. she said, if it were not for this act no-fault have to stop and celebrate and there was another controversial piece. at the beginning of the bush years there was president bush who decided to write out some of the space. and he said -- it was about the university of michigan. >> host: affirmative-action. >> guest: he did not want preferential treatment in the admission process. and so condoleezza rice at

the time national security adviser said advisor said to him, there needs to be targets of opportunity: is the word she used at the time. >> host: giving black candidates for admission that extra measure. >> guest: and the problem was that someone, i don't know how it happened someone said that she supported president bush. they wanted to make sure that her story was told properly. i will never forget i heard all the hoopla about it in the news had to go to a dr.'s appointment. i got a call from the white house press secretary at the time. sure. and so do you know what is going on? yes. so he ultimately talked. she made it clear perfectly clear that she supported targets of opportunity that some would consider affirmative-action. so she was against the train

of thought that there should not be preference admission at the university. the specialty media reporter like you get that message to the audience that cares the most. and this is the great thing. now it reverberates into the new york times into cnn got to abc the "washington post" not just specialty media that the go to person that other media feed off of when there is a black issue. >> host: did you really could us all through dinner for quentin? >> guest: i didn't but my aunt did. started from the beginning. i recall this rare book late in the bill clinton administration. this was a time when he was saying, i am still relevant. the campaign was on for his successor and he was out

polishing and walking the dog. you were in washington at the white house everyday. .. >> >> to allow us to be there

so we could talk about this. the president wanted to talk about race as well because what he had on the table at that time was slow during. he wanted to get our thoughts. he wanted to hear what we had to say. will initially started the process with mike he liked it so much. we had collard greens evangeline's. but to be from the south he welcomed it and sued green shoe together.

-- brings you together and is a common item. we had a beautiful time. he said if you want to do talk about race and not only that it isn't fair he has not had the otr with any of us. especially with everything overhead with monica lewinsky. >> host: clinton was impeached by this time. >> guest: yes. visit is 1999. and actually we got a call if it will happen in. at the time i was one of the

main people who tried to make this happen. there is no way we can get into your house in baltimore. into open up his home in real thing for that president clinton talked so much they pulled him out of the house 1130 sometimes is a monologue in you are adjusting grossed a and you just listen. to have the president's is in there with you and eating for crimes sitting right next to him eating chicken and the salad in the colored screens. oh my gosh. [laughter] to have those conversations.

>> host: what do you get from that? >> this is off the record. you always want time with the of principles to find out what they are thinking and why. he talked so much about things that happen in africa of a trip and a hodgepodge of issues. but to find out who he was the god of the record. >> host: that moment at the end of the book are the ones of what americans are acutely aware of. with trayvon martin president obama said if he had a sudden. what do you make of the

president's handling of the was explosive moments under his watch? >> guest: african-americans are looking at him as the savior. he wanted to make them believe change what happened as he was running for the office. he could never reach that level of expectation that he said himself. and people were hurting from the recession started looking for hope and change. that this is is first time give him a chance. the first time it was a rising tide lifts all votes.

-- bodes. but the second time announcing the african american president it was a president who happens to be african-american. the reason why i say that is he is open how he regards to social issues and as president your president of all-america. especially dealing with race issues. he brought up the issue that people were sleeping under the rug for many decades.

with police involved shootings right now you have to support though law-enforcement. >> host: ferguson missouri? shares he have gone? >> guest: that is testy because it is such a hotbed. >> host: presidents don't usually go somewhere unless there is something they can bring away from it. >> guest: it calmed down for a while. but ferguson is the town that was upside down. white rule black majority. because of the power structure but that committee

was overwhelmingly african american. >> guest: with that power structure was there. and if not obama who? he did not ago but everything comes to a president. and this is what bothers me. why are you asking him about ferguson? why not? the is the president of united states. race is a part of everything. race issues come to every president. lbj. jfk. abraham lincoln. all these presidents had

dealt with issues and acted on them. so why would you ask about race? because he is the one to a effectuate change. >> host: did clinton come close to issuing what some african americans would consider an apology for slavery? >> he wanted to. >> host: there was a speech he gave with recovered in africa. back and forth within the white house hearing that you will get an apology for slavery for gore said i about looking for one but also with reparations but i think bill clinton was the

one really the only one who could have done a. but the timing is right to the first black president as he was not going to do that. the president barack obama it was not the right time for him i guess. but to strategically navigate successfully the with them the right time. it was the hope to be an apology and in the plug -- the book with the strength of the of words and i could

not believe it. they were close. >> host: you covered up by house but you're also an american and a mom coming from strong close family prepared do you vote? there are some reporters who don't but how you handle your own personal beliefs? >> and i don't even go to some of the functions, i will say i am a person i am a woman. i can be injectable reporter

bet i do vote. i will not tell you gore to i registered for. >> host: when we can register as new party. >> i am registered voter. >> host: i want to get into a footnote that struck me as a very nice touch to talk about black-and-white to capitalize the word black-and-white pricing pact gives both terms a sign of respect was that intentional been back yes. i have black friends and white friends.

people want to believe readier talk about black-and-white there is race baiting. it is about history putting out there what is coming on. what i really want to read part to understand what is going on. but to work this out respect for the community. >> is the white house press corps shown the same type of respect? >> 70 years ago. >> host: tell how he was

honored by a the white house at the 100th to energy one you are going to make me cry. seven years ago there was a gentleman a reporter took his job seriously but he was told by the white correspondents don't come in this review will step on someone's toes. >> host: this is when franklin roosevelt's conference. >> ultimately the bottom line in happened 70 years

ago. it boggles the mind. then to work so closely from where i stand now you'll always of a difference of opinion. summer just the difference of opinion. that we as a group that is one thing. o id it could not be a better is not worth fighting over.

>> host: given to with some don't do to conclude with the explanation of how you have created the three presidents that you have covered provide not want to be a spoiler a large you covered bill clinton to georgia bush ever rock obama three a modern-day president's nine of them float. >> but there is the pace - - a piece of race relations but nobody has the letter a greater. president clinton is the reigning champion on diversity. why? >> guest: he has had the

most confirmed african-americans marshalls, a judge's, excuse me, not judges. barack obama is the grand champ bomb that. but cabinet persons they work hard with diversity there. pledges could because another group of people that were not at the table there were african americans he brought people to the table to make these decisions we didn't get everything we wanted but it wasn't just the window dressing to trickle down into other

administration. >> key had an african-american secretary of state and national security adviser at a time when the united states was very engaged around the world could points for that? >> and he said this this time last year george to be bush had the biggest republican administration to be in a position to are african-american. so this is the first administration with that type of prominence with the attorney general.

>> host: but that does not counter rate president bush's experience after katrina? was a racial. >> guest: i don't think president bush was racist with katrina. >> of course, that affected so many minorities and lower-income people hurt by the storm. >> especially the ninth word of maryland's. even president clinton says i don't think george bush is a racist. now to talk about katrina he got in trouble he was caught

up in the states' rights issue. that is what would bog him down. because he felt left alone. >> host: barack obama the first but not the last but his grade is high in your book is bill clinton. >> guest: because of the first term. i will not see the connection but he did not come out. there are two different barack obama's for service center in we see a more african-americans and

president he is comfortable in his skin. and he is not ashamed of there. he had to be very strategic he was the president was 1718 years of waiting for that money at the same time. >> host: are you surprised barack obama did not make a stronger system? >> because of the economy. >> i remember hearing people that we also know race and

politics always follow the president but they felt they had to walk the fine line anything with this administration that targeted from searching groups with those important ever that they tried to do. >> guest: you have ted to the right house through the exciting time. thank you for sharing your thoughts.

>> a1 some data looks like he has set up for them. the degree to which primary voters