enough. we see a reflection of our own time but we have to be aware as readers that were not judging him in the context as today but in the context of history. does he deserve the accolades of the americas first philosopher. theology was an important achievement, enlightenment. byron relating morality to every day franklin laid the foundation. that is from walter isaacson's american life. his first book came out in 1986 and was co-authored the wiseman.

the ben franklin book in 2003 einstein his life and universe 2007 and steve jobs is going to be made into a movie, 2011 and the innovators, a group that created the digital revelation. you been watching put tv on c-span2. walter isaacson was our guest. thank you. here are some of our featured pr

>> were you a fan of the 1st lady series on c-span? it is now a book published by public affairs. based on original interviews with more than 50 preeminent historians and biographers learn details of all 451st ladies that made these women who they were lives, ambitions, lives, ambitions, and unique partnerships with the presidential spouses.

providing lively stories of fascinating women who survived the scrutiny of the white house sometimes at great personal cost and even changed history. first ladies is an illuminating, entertaining come and inspiring read and is now available as hardcover or e-book. kennedy. he will be answering your calls and tweets until 3:00 p.m. after one author ron kessler is the secret service system broken?

>> guest: the management level, not necessarily the agents. there is a management culture of retaliating against those who.out problems with threats. president. but there is a retaliation against those who point out problems or threats, punishing agents who question really anything and on the other hand promoting management who goes along to pretend that the secret service is not vulnerable. so it is a corrupt culture and you saw an example of that when julia pierson, the director claims after this that he was stopped at the door that he was not armed, that was a total lie. how could any agency put out a lie like that and think that they could get away with it. and when it came out that that was not true, the new director joseph clancy, he was asked

about that adhering and whether anyone would be held accountable for issuing that information and that was just an error. and they said how do you know it is an error, and they said i don't know how this happened and number one to be the director and number two, how can anyone on the lower level trust someone like that, how could they trust him stop this very corrupt culture how could you trust them with any information at the secret service today. >> host: out of the culture developed? >> guest: it started around 2003 when the department of homeland security took over the secret service. previously it had been the treasury department. it made it a little bit more political. they had the fight over but it's

more and you will see they will leave the door of the white house open they need to have good alarm systems, and then in addition, the leadership was part of the culture. and they talked about the intrusion the crashes at the state dinner the prostitution scandal, and every time that this happened president obama would say that the confidence in the leadership and competence in a great service -- we should have replaced mark sullivan long-ago with someone from outside the agency who would not be but holden to interest within the agency who would change the culture, that is what you do in any organization when it is in trouble. you bring in someone from the outside. and i am afraid that president obama has guaranteed with the selection of clancy that the

secret service will continue from one to another. >> host: is it helpful or hurtful that the president basically has a say over who is going to be the director? >> guest: well, the president should have a say. but at the same time the director should be confirmed by the senate, the same as the fbi director, the same as hundreds of obscure officials that you have never heard of. for example, the u.s. marshals and the 62 different districts in the country, is one of the recommendations in my book the first family detail. i'm quite sure that if that were in place and by the way some house members on both sides of the aisle have since introduced legislation to require confirmation of secret service directors. they would not have mr. clancy in charge, we would have an outside director, ideally someone who had been a

high-ranking fbi official because the fbi has really done a spectacular job since 9/11 and keeping us safe from a foreign terrorist attack. they would never stand for this cover-up culture that you see today in the rest of the secret service. >> host: ron kessler, the secret service agents have to sign nondisclosure agreements? >> guest: it was always understood that you never see what is going on behind the scenes but after the prostitution scandal came out they never wanted to have that out in the first place the secret service didn't choir confidentiality agreements so they were not allowed to speak to the press and they do so on parallel with losing your job. >> host: james bamford, when you had written about the secret service originally wrote in

"the washington post" what is truly dangerous is the kind of national inquirer gossett from the book the president secret service, without trust and confidence, presidents will want to keep them at a distance out at a safety range when split seconds may counts. >> guest: in one hand there's no gossett in this book, there's a firsthand account, about half are on the record. it is simply investigative reporting. because it so happens that this book begins with bill clinton's mistress it goes into hillary clinton's abuse of agents, the fact that she is like this that agents consider her part of foreign punishment, on and on to dick cheney's daughter who tried to get her agency friends to

open restaurants, they refused as they should have, but she threw a fit and got her detail removed over that. not to mention the fact that the reason that ronald reagan was shot by hinckley is that his own white house staff let spectators within 15 feet of him if he came out of the washington hilton. onscreen, and that is why he was able to shoot him. it never came out that it was the fault of the white house. and so these are major disclosures that we need to know about. especially that we need to know about with what the readers have to say behind the scenes. >> host: you write about the first family detail. make sure that everyone who comes to visit the president is logged in except that there is one that you do not log into in the book. >> guest: this is what secret service agents were assigned to

one it was in regards to the president and you know it's a very small example of corner cutting that takes place that could jeopardize the security of the president and on a larger scale when bradley cooper, the actor a went to a white house correspondents dinner, president obama was about to speak and a high-ranking secret service official in new york instructed agents at the hotel to let bradley cooper and his suv into the secure space in front of the hotel were only secret service vehicles were allowed. even then they had to screen for explosives because anyone could strap some explosive under a vehicle. and so it was just a favor to the pretty people the agents were horrified.

you know, here they are, risking their lives to protect the president and they are being told that we don't care if there is an explosive, let him in that is the kind of culture that i'm talking about, which actually jeopardizes the life of the president. another example is that on a regular basis, the agents were told by management to let people into events without metal detection screenings. this is like letting passengers into an airplane without detection screening and again, the secret service is so spineless that they will bow to pressure whether it is from the white house or bush and the obama white house or from campaign to let people in and they had an attitude providing us. so they can say that you know we don't want these people outside the event, we want them

to be in. and sure enough the secret service let them in because we had different aids coming and taking the president or vice president. that is something that still hasn't hit the press. dozens of examples of corner cutting and, you know other malfeasance in the book they still haven't come out. >> host: is to take your latest book, "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents", what are some of the revelations that you found that did not make quite a splash they thought that they would to . >> guest: one is vice president biden. when he goes to wilmington back at his home, which he does several times a week he will instruct agents to keep his military like a nuclear football. which launches a counterattack on a country like russia or china or north korea.

at least a mile behind a motorcade, along with his medical doctor. because he wants to have this image and he doesn't want a big long motorcade, so he says, stay back a mile behind. of course if obama were taken out, there would not be time for them to get divided so that they could launch a counter attack. when you look at this what could be more irresponsible and reckless, yet that has not been talked about. in addition he goes back several times a week and it's one thing to go back a few times a year. but the costs to taxpayers has been a million dollars since he took office and some liberal

writer question whether or not any of this was true and what could be more official than the actual details provided by the air force. the only thing that was picked up by the press the fact that he likes to talk about this war on women. everybody borders on harassment when he does this going around naked in front of female agents. >> host: of joe biden is inconsiderate with secret service agents, hillary clinton can make richard nixon look like mahatma gandhi. when in fact he acts graciously but as soon as the cameras are gone, the angry personality and nastiness and imperiousness becomes evident.

>> i love revealing secrets that are important that have meaning. in this case what this means is that we need to look at the character of candidates because the character ultimately influences how they carry out their presidency. take a look at before he was involved in this issue that led to the speech and sure enough that was watergate. that we need to look at character, the same things that we look at whenever we choose an employee or a friend, anyone in our lives. when it comes to the presidency somehow people just forget about this thing and then focus on this. in the case of hillary she treats the little people that she claims she is going to help

if she is president, she treats him with contempt, she is abusive, nasty lying and to temper tantrums over nothing even this on the record quote from secret service agent who would drive her. and so what kind of a personality is that, it's an unbalanced personality of someone who is certainly a hypocrite and that she can't bear to treat those same people with decency. and another detail is the reason that james foster committed suicide is that on one hand he was always depressed, but his suicide was triggered according to fbi agents who investigated the death, by the fact that a week before the suicide hillary had a big meeting in the white house with foster and other aides and colleagues.

and they had a disagreement over some legal issue and hillary called him a small-town hick lawyer and you will never make it in the big-time, she humiliated the guy and after that things immediately when downhill according to the people that were fbi agents, family members, aides, and according to two fbi agents on the record, that episode triggered suicide a week later and again, the press has ignored that. >> host: we will get into your other books as we go through things today. but does your material need to be vetted by anyone? >> generally we have talked about rival issues through rival lawyer, but i had to way back in 1972 when i was at "the

washington post", president nixon is a good friend, a fellow with a contribution of both sides and it cost millions of dollars paid to williams and calmly and then a second one over these books. and so i'm very careful and i do think of myself as a lawyer and also one thing that i do is when i trust someone, even if i don't trust that person, i will present a draft of what i plan to write we need corrections comments and one of my books with the president secret service, i revealed that the

treasury secretary under president bush mr. snow he had a mistress that he would go see every weekend and secret service would have to go down there. one time the agents saw him kissing this mistress and the mistress' husband was about to come back to try to alert mr. snow. i presented a draft of what i tried to write to him and he had a very high-powered lawyer, a very good lawyer richard cohen the former attorney general call me and sure enough he invited me to lunch at morton's and we sort of negotiated some

items and he pointed out one or two errors and at his request i put this comment a little bit higher and change the wording here and there. but the story was there. and sure enough i could sleep at night not worrying about other things. >> host: how do you get secret service agents and other agents to talk to you? >> i don't really know the answer to that except to say that i know that i'm very interested in what they do. for example i did the first story on fbi criminal profiling in "the washington post" and i was fascinated about this. you know i really appreciated their work.

and on the one hand, one of my books led to the dismissal of william sessions over his abusers so i am very comfortable talking about the abuses, the prostitution scandal as i mentioned, on the other hand when an agent era person does well, i they that and this is very unusual in today's world. and as i said i have made the point that the fbi has been very successful at blowing up a lot since 9/11 the whole culture was changed under those that emphasize prevention and emphasize this as opposed to putting people in jail. of course they always want to stop and put people in jail, but it is a matter of emphasis and i

go through that in my book the secrets of the fbi. so that is another reason that i think the people who cooperate with me and they say that okay she has a lot of knowledge and he has a lot of sources. >> host: can you explain the bureau? >> guest: it's a complete mystery going back and because of this i was able to interview mark in california, he was the house breaking official during watergate and i went to his house, which was owned by his daughter and he was living with her and when i went to the door she said, you know this guy was out here about a euro bill in she didn't really know who he was, she knew he was a reporter and she said and he came in a

white limousine and he had this 10 blocks away and he walked to my house. so this was what was being felt there was no way that he would do this. so the post picked up the story and that was the first really credible evidence that we had. so i sat next to "washington post" and bob woodward came over and they would write their stories over the typewriter because bernstein was a good writer, but woodward was not. they would argue about things and i recently said you know, we actually are talking about this.

and so there was a real discussion of the sources, they were not making up sources there was a conspiracy theory a combination of different people, i don't know why they are bad or what the point of that was in an embarrassing footnote to my life, a week or two after watergate started they propose to ask you think twice replace him on this and he was abusing his expense account and a month later they would get a bill for the rental car that was left in some garage somewhere and they really wanted to push him aside. and i love to do and original investigated reporting and i was

talking about how i possibly would not have gone along with woodward who is also at the post, although he was the best man. but in the end i am happy with my life. >> host: from your book "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents", secret service agents like barack and michelle obama, treat them with respect. >> again i think that this is a very important clue for the character, one of the reasons they like obama even if they may not like his policies sometimes is that people do have this sense that she is not a very likable person. and so this is an example of the fact that my books are political, they tell it like it is, reviewing the previous book in saying that it presents flattering and unflattering

stories about presidents of both political parties. >> host: what goes into the president's annual trip to hawaii. what kind of planning by the secret service? >> guest: i think two weeks before they do in advance and they will interview local law enforcement to see if there are any threats out there, they go to the whole territory, they plan out everything, right down to the most minute detail of the motorcade route. one-time one george h. w. bush was going to give a speech in oklahoma when he was campaigning for reelection he advanced and people went out there, they talk to local law enforcement and law enforcement said no, there is this psychic in town who has been incredibly reliable in the past and let us to a body of the murder victims and she said that she had a vision that bush would

be assassinated by sniper at an overpass. the secret service agents were embarrassed to take this seriously, but nonetheless they interviewed the psychic and after if she knew anything more about this alleged plot and she said i know that the motorcade vehicles are out at the air force base. they said can you show us where and they went there and there were five hangars and she pointed correctly to the hangar where the motorcade vehicles were. this was from one of the agents who is actually in charge and asked her a few other questions and she said this is going to come out of air force one wearing a sport jacket and sport coat, and i thought, that is absurd, but sure enough the next

morning he came out wearing a sports jacket and a sports suit. so they went to an alternate route that did not go under any overpass and of course bush was safe and he was not told at the time but he knows about it now, and i'm always asked did they go to look at there is any sniper at an overpass, no, they didn't, but the secret service agents are very impressive and the fbi agents admire them more than any other law enforcement. when they interview the suspects if they can find them and put them into three categories category number three is the most serious where they believe that if they would carry out the plot, in most cases when the president goes the secret

service will actually show up at the home of one of the individuals and warn them to stay away from the president, that they will be watched all the way through and [inaudible] they interview everyone involved and he probably will not be prosecuted. >> host: what is crown? >> guest: that is the secret service codename for the white house. often generated by a computer, although an individual presented protection can veto a particular codename. for example george w. bush was going to be called [inaudible] and he didn't like that. it reminded him of his drinking days and so he became trailblazer and dick cheney was angry because he likes to fish.

and so these names, they are helpful because in a crowd of secret service agents on his radio someone who is under protection other people don't know who he is talking about and then it also clarifies the name because some names may sound the same. [inaudible] so when you say the codename for michelle or barack obama, not everyone understands what they are talking about. >> host: from your book "inside the cia: revealing the secrets of the world's most powerful spy agency", you write that today the cia is a different agents the from the one that created sensational headlines in the early 70s about drug testing and domestic surveillance. >> guest: this is how i present what i think is beyond the

story. the cia back in those days before there was any oversight by congress whatsoever they were engaging in foolish practices and they had a plot and that this would somehow mean that people would respect them anymore in the country and it was insane and often illegal. it often goes with these unfocused efforts and my good friend john martin he was in charge of prosecuting for 25 years, he prosecuted 76 spies. john walker james, all of the big names only one prosecution resulted in a not guilty plea.

he gave me very good framework for looking at these things. legal framework, if you will. and that is when hoover would go after antiwar protesters exercising the first amendment rights. he was not only violating the rights but also was confusing real criminal activities with rights that people have a right to exercise. the result is because because of a lack of focus that he did not do a very good job of casting spies. which isn't to say that he didn't do a lot of good things. and so he came to the cia on the one hand in the old days and on the other hand today just like the fbi, they are as possible for the fact that they have not had a successful attack. and yet always in the press is

the cia the fbi the immunization. and not one of these has ever been part of this, meaning something illegal and they have very good reasons for the collection of data that the nsa is engaged in. that is how they stop the plot. and of course knowing these people, seeing how they work, going out to the secret service training facility learning how they train agents. [inaudible] filling in any mistakes. the fact is that there is years since the hoover days and i think that's very important to keep in mind. we have many saying that the cia

has an asset in yemen, people who are onto bomb plot, bombs that have been put on planes, even though there is no abuse, they are doing their job as they should be and yet you must weigh like that optimizing the source could result in death. it could result in an attack on the country and so this is a standard form of journalism that i just don't get that i did not see existing when i was part of "the washington post." i remember bob woodward wanted to do a story about the fact that the nsa had penetrated the soviet communication lines. even though it turned out that they knew that the nsa had done that and they were introducing

this, they would not run the story. there was no abuse they were doing their job, why would you compromise security by running us. and yet you see the press lining up behind the ap supporting with a dead. i just don't get it and i think it is outrageous. >> host: did j. edgar hoover abuse his directorship? >> guest: i think what he did, about half of it was very good. he established a great law enforcement agency that is acknowledged throughout the world and he established a system. he would not countenance brutality and i was very much a part of this he was a stickler

for facts. at the same time he abused his position partly to keep his job. above all he wanted her main director forever and he almost did. he was a director for almost 50 years until he died in office. and one key to doing that is that he would keep files on members of congress and of course they would all give him the budget they would want the bureau to document how one particular chief of staff was potentially blackmailed sending an agent over to tell him that he knew that he was having an affair even though he was married and they expected him to talk about it. this guy said well, i hope that

you have photographs or it so that was the end of that. but that is documented on the record as to how he was. and he would let john kennedy noted he knew about his affair with judith exner. and so of course, he was never going to fire hoover and it is incredible. you look back at what happened in those days. >> host: the afternoon and welcome to booktv booktv on c-span2. this is our monthly program and we have one author on to talk about his or her book. this month it is best-selling author ron kessler, the author of 20 books and we will be talking about some of the things that you have heard in the past half-hour, we will put the numbers on the screen because we want your input as well. (202)748-8400 if you live in eastern or central time zones

if you can't get through on the phone, if you want to make a comment via social media at c-span booktv is our twitter handle, you can make a comment there or a comment on her facebook page facebook.com/ facebook.com/booktv. finally you can send an e-mail to booktv at c-span.ord. so how did you get into this business? >> well i got involved in a high school newspaper and i interviewed all the clergymen and sure enough they almost all thought that there was a need for that. well, we were giving our best to try do talk about what to do. but i really got into journalism when i was in the class and i

did a survey of discrimination against blacks and i would say that i'm a student is this still available, they would say yes and i would say my roommate is coming, is that a problem. and so they use this against the discrimination which actually complains about some of those that we name in the story is having said yes. [inaudible] so that waited my appetite for investigative journalism. >> host: "washington post." when we there? >> guest: i was there from 1970

through 1985 and i previously telegram the fact that i do that story. i was running the boston herald for three years and then "the washington post" for 15 years as an investigative reporter. >> host: why did you leave? >> guest: i left to right books. my second book i was still on leave from the post, he was the world's preeminent and we talked about this back and forth and eventually he invited me to a birthday party in spain along with brooke shields and sean connery and i thought hey, this is really fun. there is also a party and this was used. but give us an opportunity to go

in depth and my wife who is also at "the washington post", she had been assistant as we know, the one that came up with this term, she not only supported my idea of this but actually encouraged it and that was just tremendous because it was so big to leave a steady job and go out into the free enterprise world where you never know how a book is going to do. i have done 20 books now and i have never looked back. [inaudible question] >> guest: it is a conservative website that i was therefore chief washington correspondent and what i did was go interview everyone from george bush and

romney to deborah norval, it jim cramer your friend brian lamb, and it was just fun and in the process i exposed this talk of spousal abuse and there was a story on that. also the reason that david petraeus had to resign the was that there was an fbi investigation going on in the involvement with his mistress and so i practiced real journalism while i was there. >> host: ron kessler is the author of 20 books. here's the most recent one in 2002 "the bureau: the secret history of the fbi; a matter of character: inside the white house of george w. bush" came out. "inside the cia: revealing the secrets of the world's most powerful spy agency" came out in 2003. "a matter of character inside

the white house of george w. bush" came out. and then the terrorist watch came out in 2007 and the president secret service behind the scenes and the secrets of the fbi, and the most recent is the "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents", revealing the hidden lives of the presidents. why two books on essentially the same topic? >> the second book focuses on new revelations and focuses more on first families the spouses, and so i have almost a dozen bullet points in the press release with new revelations about the secret service. and i mention the fact that he was shot because of his own

white house that and that the bite in episode and a number of other new items. also we went much more into the corner cutting culture with many more examples. and you would think that he would wise up and do something about it. and he doesn't. it's a real concern because agents tell me that it's almost a miracle given all the corner cutting and covering up. >> host: why in the world did you do these of george w. bush? >> guest: after 9/11 i became much more attuned to the fact that the press was misrepresenting counterterrorism

measures "the washington post" would routinely do stories proclaiming that they are spying on us they are doing terrible things. they are doing something that shows that the whole story was bogus or in fact would never show up at all. so i cited examples of this in my book and i have to say that right now the post is very fair and balanced and there is a description that really is a part of this and of course it results in credibility. so even "the washington post" says so-and-so is siding with the conservative person were pointing out something that conservatives like. but the fact is that day in and

day out they are doing a magnificent job of telling folks that. and so what was the question again? >> host: why the biographies on laura bush and others. >> guest: i felt with bush that he was actually crucial in changing that culture in the fbi to make it more oriented towards prevention. a few days he was being briefed on the investigation with prosecutions into 9/11 and bush said wait a minute i want to know what you are doing to stop this next plot. so there was a supposedly interesting situation at cleared a new infrastructure that made it safe, not to mention the no child left behind act which is very dear to me because i could

not read in the fourth grade. i had been taught with a bogus method which was not fun at, it was called whole language, some people say it makes you guess the words, when my mother remarried, i was in the fourth grade and i couldn't read. and sure enough they put me into phonics and i learned how to read and that is one thing that george bush pushed. so i admired that. and that is one reason i did the book on him. >> host: in your book it you quote the overall thing is a strengthening of the communication.

and it says that his intelligence reform, greater intelligence, the transformation of the fbi and the technical tools at the nsa terrorism surveillance program and the financial program, some of these changes are greater than the parts and now the u.s. is on the offense. >> another example is that bush created a national counterterrorism center where the fbi shares information that was totally different from what happened before 9/11 when they had the so-called wall either between the fbi and the cia or within the same situation. so all of these changes have been responsible for the fact that we have not had a successful attack and people do not understand that. they don't even think about it. but they don't connect the dots

to why that happens. and there is this new approach with measures one is that the fbi has what they call a tripwire, making explosives to report any suspicious situations and as a result that a plan to blow up the home of george w. bush was ported. another important part our tactical operations teams to plant bugging devices. they are using almost every important case espionage political corruption, and it's

unbelievable what they do. so unbelievable that they gave us approval a week or two before the break-in, or even agents will watch and see who goes in and who goes out and that on the night of the break-in they will have agents make sure that they don't go back to the premises and serve these agents. if they do try to go back, the agents will disrupt them and divert them. they will give them a traffic ticket or they will open this in the area. and they will also take a photo of any dog that could be on the premises monday show that to a veterinarian that is on contact and he prescribes a trickle as a dog with a dart gun.

so here she is knocked out during the break-in and at the end of the break-in they will wake him up with some other drug because the only dogs could tip off that the fbi was there. so they may want to break into an office suite they learn how to take over an elevator, they go into the office building during the day, they take over one of the elevators and then in the middle of the night they go in and get back on the elevator, come out and nobody is the wiser. [inaudible] and they drape over the front of the house this chart and enable go behind it so that nobody who

is walking by can see them and they will defeat the alarms and the break-in. one time they were putting books into a mafia front there was actually a mafia front and this store overlooked a bar, they didn't want to go in the back because it could be booby-trapped, but they could see them breaking in. so what did they do? they borrowed a city bus they drove in front of the electronics store, they got out they made it look like the place had broken down, they win in they broke through the locks, the bus went around the corner until they put the bugs then, but it went by the bus stop. and they were furious that the

busted nonstop for them. so as soon as they open the doors of bella tonics stories the two of them ran in and the agents didn't know that they were from these secret teams. but then some of the agents started taking off their walkie-talkies and things like that. and the agent that was driving says hey, stop bothering me, i'm having a trouble driving the bus. and then another got up and he had a shotgun on his shoulder and these guys when wild. so finally the agent understood what was going on they went running down the street and no one ever heard from them again. and the fbi showed me a real bug, i couldn't believe that this was happening. and it was a size of a postage

stamp, a little bit thicker, recording or transmitting as you wish, and that is the key to solving many of the guy cases. >> host: at year book "the terrorist watch", spying on americans. increase surveillance of americans and the war on terror. >> guest: you know the fbi conducts investigations to spying if you will under court order. you know, if they go after you you're going to be dead and they do a very thorough and honest job. and so the spying business is something that critics invented and journalist invented and believe me, if there was a real case of spying for no good

reason, that person would be prosecuted. >> host: what about the nsa a gathering of phone calls that people are making? >> guest: the nsa has been gathering phone calls because the phone companies is to keep the records for years and years and then they decided that it's too costly and they started discarding them after a few months. well in one case the fbi knew of one of the hijackers in san diego and they knew that he had been making calls to terrorist operations overseas. but looking back they could not find out who this person was because the records had been destroyed. so all they wanted to know was the identity of the guy and they just wanted to know who he was and they couldn't.

and instead of this program had been in effect at that time they would have found out who he was. they would have done surveillance. he would have stopped the plot and there's no lesson about it to that effect and you can see that it's obvious that they would have been able to do this and that is all the program was about keeping these records in case they need to go back and then they started the investigation or maybe they perceive to get court orders to conduct surveillance in a legal manner and stop millions of people from being killed. because it would be so easy for someone from isis as an example, to unleash a chemical or a biological attack on our country. and somehow people think about

this. that is not the real threat. the real threat is what could really change our whole existence. >> host: what is your connection to the senate intelligence report? >> guest: it is a totally nonpartisan the republican staff does not allow this state. and they are enhancing this to find out about the program. and it said i was essentially the talking about this along with this deal because the cia gives interviews with ice in which they claim that this

enhanced interrogation program has led to actual plots, and only three were water boarded we now have more journalists water boarded than those three individuals because journalists have been explaining how this thing works, thousands have been water boarded an dictionary definition of torture does not involve the infliction in pain but it can involve scaring people and it's certainly not anything that we are looking forward to having. but essentially they said what turns out to be the truth according to president obama, the cia director who said that in fact these techniques led to including uncovering where he

was leading up to his dad. so it's an interesting story it which only mentioned this and by the way i compared the information at the time with the fbi, which agreed in essence that the information was correct. and obviously as they mention in "the new york times" report showing that we were not such fools after all. >> host: do you consider yourself a political conservative? >> guest: you know, it's funny. if you're someone from the mainstream media, you're going to assume that that person is probably on the side and he wouldn't be interested in his or her political beliefs or think that they were questionable.

but after 9/11 i became very concerned for our own safety and concerned that democrats were undercutting some of these efforts that we need in order to keep us safe and the republicans were strong on national security. more recently we have dean a lot of walking on the conservative side, you see they are constantly going after the patriot act which is a very simple measure which helps to protect us. but the result is that i started to change my views but they do not affect totally nonpartisan. examples in the secret service books a very, very critical information about republicans ranging from

bush to gingrich to grandpa the ted cruz and on and on. so i would like to tell the story. i feel very comfortable being honest. i try to stay precisely to the facts and that's what i enjoy after one ron kessler is our guest. if you live in the east and central time zones gym right here in fairfax county virginia in the suburbs you are 1st up. >> caller: good afternoon. enjoying the enjoying the discussion so far. i forget will book it was in when i read it i was laughing so hard i about fell out of my chair. .. about fell out of my chair. he reported in one of your books that are former vice president

spiro agnew had had an affair, can you explain that he meant i can't believe it. >> there is this guy talking about this in more ways than one. he preached family values and that was this whole thing and yet he was having an affair with one of his very shapely aids and also with a few other women, i described how secret service agents would take him to a hotel in washington in order to have an affair with these women. and i'm not saying that because jfk had affairs all the time they're for news about president, but certainly it was a clue to the haand >> it's something that could lead to blackmail, for example.

and this is a description of spiro agnew. this is from the book "the president secret service". the next call comes from david in florida. >> caller: good afternoon, peter. and ron we have met. you autographed my book copy "of a matter of character." so i would like to discuss your biography that you wrote. completely exonerated kennedy joe kennedy from having been a

bootlegger. and i would say that everyone here including you, included him on that. in that designation. a picture of him joe kennedy in kubo with a bunch of laggards, that is hanging in the house of and asked ernest hemingway in key west florida. and so i think that that discrepancy on to be discussed. [inaudible] >> guest: they were certainly not the most important revelation in the book. the book went into his admiration for hitler and his

anti-semitism. and it also reveals that rosemary kennedy, who supposedly was retired, actually was mentally ill and that is why joe kennedy [inaudible] and so and and so they would say that we would never perform a lobotomy on someone who was. in addition with that, not only could they possibly do this and

will what they felt was an embarrassment because he wanted one of his sons to be president. and it was more palatable if rosemary was rather than mentally ill. this includes his secretary and his mistress for nine years, three times longer than his affair with gloria swanson. and my mother was going to a book party for that book.

and so he was very gracious and that tells you something about my mother -- and she also had a crusading spirit in a way. she was a concert pianist and musician, her whole world was music, at the same time she was charging a handling company to charge something to her. today other online retailers have proven her right. and also when donald trump gave a book party inside palm beach what i call my midlife crisis. i had to go to more parties with more champagne and later on my

wife and i i asked my mother wanted you think about this and she said well, he's doing a lot of things for himself and not thinking much about music. and by the way, pam comes up with a title for my book, the president and the secret service and she comes up with additional ideas about things to pursue and she said wouldn't it be great to do a book on palm beach. and that is why i did the book. because i probably would not

have been able to do this. and there's a lot of individuals who contributes to the book [inaudible] and in the book this season, in mid july she describes this in palm beach. so 4040 sized came prancing past

[inaudible] women need to walk up past the bar. and everyone was looking at them like they're on the display. they were short skirt and simple clothing. >> host: the next call is from pompano beach, florida. >> caller: hello i had two questions, one was a hillary jerrett affair and whether [inaudible] and the other was a brief report

>> host: can you explain more about the valerie gery. >> i understand it was an alleged leak that was involved. >> host: i think that that person died before he took office. >> caller: okay, the wife of the statesman who was a cia agent. am i getting the wrong name? >> host: let's get a response from ron. >> guest: that whole thing was

very overblown. and there was a conspiracy theory that it was actually someone who is anti-bush and the other item is about the fbi and of course we all have dreams about all kinds of things. but there are so many conspiracy theories out there, so much

misinformation. and so i think it just depends on how much cooperation i need and there was a couple that said that they felt like having twinkies. and that is the way they are working. and so they actually went out to the local public and got some twinkies from the pastry shop with cream and raspberry and the couple gave the waiter $500 and it was typical palm beach kind of activity. someone like that on the record. i don't need any additional cooperation.

wanted something else come i do try to get quite a bit of corroboration. >> host: you mentioned that you were affected by 9/11, what were you doing? >> guest: on 9/11 i was driving toward the fbi headquarters to interview an fbi agent. i heard on the radio and i saw black smoke billowing over the pentagon and i decided to turn around and go home and i called the fbi guy, he didn't know about it, the way things are they didn't have any alarm system to notify someone on this . >> host: we often get calls on her morning program and some people think that 9/11 was an inside job. >> guest: what could be more

obvious when it comes to conspiracy theories then people who say that there were no planes and it was an inside job. it goes back to the jfk assassination and there is something that is interesting to say. one person, according to some, killed jfk.

the assassins tend to be narcissistic looking for attention, or borderline mentally ill. and that is how assassination occurs and there is no grand conspiracy in most cases. >> host: john, rochester, new york. you're on with ron kessler. >> caller: good afternoon and happy easter. >> guest: happy easter. >> caller: i read the bureau and i was looking around the bookstore looking for something to read that caught my eye and i wound up reading inside the cia inside the white house. your books are great. those are the only ones that i

have read. but you are certainly fantastic and i enjoy your work very much. this is great. and i just really wanted to call and say that i enjoy your work, maybe the only thing i can think of is they popout throughout on the west wing they end with the big assassination attempt throughout the southern united states. what did you think and thanks again for all of your work. >> i had no idea that you were there. >> guest: it's not just the

character that you portray. and i'm for trade looking like me and the same with my wife pam sitting at a desk in front of the office with some of the don fehr someone had done the actual drawings. i so appreciate that comment there was one comment that i got from a reader that i really treasure and that is the reader describes how he first fell in love with reading, how his mother brought him to a library and back then a hamburger cost 10 cents per pound and he said please never stop writing because the words quench my thirst for knowledge. and so your writing makes me feel that life is worth living

and there is a secret of long-lasting satisfaction. >> host: robert cameron said i'm reading her book the first family detail, having spent a career in law enforcement, here is what i don't get. with 20 putting jobs in law enforcement i cannot understand the minds that it allows an agent to willingly take the abuse and ignorance and depravity and some of those who have not protected but be willing to die for. those like the oh so self-righteous jimmy carter and the rest of them. >> guest: jimmy carter was ms. piña armor and he was actually one that would come to

the office and talk to the press. and they were working hard for the american people. and so it's beyond me. and it's just a testimony to patriotism and it's necessary to save her life at the same time they had to put up with this culture that punishes them that there is this culture with all of the problems that we have seen including the most recent one with two very high-ranking agents in management who had been drinking at a party and ran into the white house bumped into a barrier and to give a

sobriety test, the supervisor had an obstruction of justice. and then he saw mr. clancy five days later putting these two high-ranking agents, claiming that they needed to do that for the general investigation and there was an investigation by the inspector general and those individuals were put on administrative leave and have not accessed the secret service commented doubles standard between management and the

agency including what he considers to uphold. >> host: if you want to make a comment, e-mail us at c-span.org. >> caller: i will try to make this as quickly as possible. you touch on what i was talking about and what i want to talk about a little while ago every un-american not to be concerned about, especially in light with what is going on in switzerland and a country that is working to create missiles in addition to atomic weapons. my congressman is ranking smith of the armed services committee who had a town meeting in bellevue, washington, little while ago, and i asked them, i said or did isis. what i am concerned about is a

terrorist getting anatomic weapon or wiping out people in seattle or los angeles, how secure, and i want to pick your brain and maybe you don't know, but i asked mr. schmidt how secure are these nuclear weapons in pakistan. they gave me a generic answer but have you ever asked a question to anyone that knows. >> guest: i know that the cia makes a very important point to one way or another neutralize with some of the people who may be in charge possibly with cyberattacks. so i don't think that we are

fond of weep at the job when it comes to issues like that. but my attitude is look at what happens during world war ii where we saw hitler taking over various countries. the isolationist like joe kennedy and there were some that didn't want to have an intervention. they could really be the end of the country. >> host: we have a tweet from an individual who says how much did carl bernstein's parents contribute to his anti-nixon stance? >> guest: i don't believe that

bernstein did this it was just they were onto a good story and they loved it and they put of with tremendous threat and abuse. a lot of times they were following katharine graham and in addition to that i don't think we have a lot of political views. so those two reporters were up night after night knocking on doors sort of a counter narrative they were just political and there were people going after nixon.

i was there every single day ,-com,-com ma i was there every single night and i know what they did. because billy richard nixon might well have disbanded the constitution if he pursued what he wanted to do. and it was a horrible time in our history. >> host: judith roberts says why don't women work for the secret service? >> guest: that is not true about 10 to 15% of the agents are women and they certainly tried to recruit women minorities so that is one that i would not attribute to the secret service. >> host: what would a female supervisor who couldn't protect the president if he had to.

>> guest: this applies to men and women and yet they ask agents to fill out their own test scores and any law enforcement agency they put on these scenarios, which as i mentioned they have had out there to impress them and they claim that this is spontaneous, they didn't know where they were and in fact those scenarios were reversed beforehand and so it was essentially given to the agents. so how can you expect this if

it's actually condoned. >> host: what is the relationship stands on the view between the fbi, the cia and others? >> guest: the fbi develops intelligence as well as going after criminal law whether it's organized crime and terrorism and the secret service protects leaders and they also do investigations and a lot of them are very good, they are highly respected. >> host: to make it along? >> guest: the secret service

tends to be very cooperative. the four person panel appointed by jeh johnson to look into the reforms and it was not made public. and in fact the secret service was not only insular but did not cooperate well with the fbi. so that's another problem and you can imagine why. see the penetration in the white house and why would they want to have an agency that might second-guess what they are doing

>> this includes action against other agents i am much more concerned about her treatment of the american public especially with this e-mail scandal and and she takes them for a bunch of morons. and i guess that that really offends me the most she is a fictional character.

.. president. you know? look at president johnson. he, according to one agent, if john pson were not -- johnson were not president, he would be in a mental hospital. for example he would hold press conferences at his ranch in texas, and in front of male and female reporters urinate in front of them. he would sit on the toilet and defecate in front of aides. one time he was going when he was vice president from the capitol to the white house, secret service was driving him. it was about 5:00. it was rush hour. he was late for an appointment with jfk, and so he said drive on the sidewalk, drive up on the sidewalk, get there faster: and of course, the agent said, no, i'm not going to do it.

johnson took a newspaper, hit him on the head and said "you're fired." he was not fired and this was the sort of thing that went on ever single day. yet we entrusted this guy to prosecute the vietnam war which was full of lies as to it effectiveness. that's how character applies with policies. you saw that very well with one of my favorite books which is by david mccullough on truman. the fact that truman was such a forthright guy a bold guy, called it like it is and at the same time was able to take action decisively as president to stop world war ii by bombing japan, to create a whole structure for dealing with the cold war and containing the soviet union. this is so basic that, of course, we should look at character. and yet, again, we, when we are

engaged in elections when the media talks about who's ahead, who's behind, character is pretty much ignored. another example with hillary is there was this discussion when her book came out last june is she disconnected from real people because she's well? well, that's a ridiculous proposition to begin with, you know? is bill gates disconnected from people because he's wealthy? was andrew carnegie disconnected from people, didn't care about people because he was wealthy in of course not. it's a non sequitur. but what is important is how she actually treats people, and that is that she treats them like dirt. >> host: ron kessler's our guest this month on "in depth." we're about halfway through the program, and as we like to do, we always ask the author in advance what his or her influences are, some of the books they're reading, etc. we want to show you that now as

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♪ ♪ on book -- in the near future on booktv. >> host: and we are back with our author, ron kiss already. mr. kessler, one of the books that you listed -- and, of course, i've lost my sheet now that i brought that a up -- "all the president's men was one" that -- men," was one and we've talked about your former coworkers, bernstein and woodward, but another one of your influences that i wanted to ask you about itch colluded -- included joe aboody, the owner of the el morocco. >> guest: that was a lebanese restaurant in worcester mass, where i went to clark university, and after editing the school paper -- and, by the way, i spent almost all my time on the school paper rather than

going to classes -- way past midnight i would go to the el morocco and get a sandwich, stuffed cabbage or grape leaves and i became friends with the co-owner. and he when he learned that i was a scholar, took an interest in me and started sort of promoting me, introducing me to the first journalist i'd ever met, a columnist on the worcester telegram. and it was such a thrill to meet a real professional journalist. about that time i'd done the story in the scarlet on the discrimination against blacks in rental housing, almost half said they would not rent to blacks, and that give me a little more prominence. but, you know, back then i i had no idea what i was going to do, whether i would ever be a success in life and joe would introduce me to these people and really made a huge difference to me that he would believe in me

that he took an interest in me. and, of course, later i went back to el morocco with my two kids, my son and my daughter, greg kessler is an artist in new york, does shows there and teaches art. my daughter, rachel kessler, who is in public relations she has her own independent business, gets hits for ceos on tv. my stepson was not there, but he is a guitarist in fred rick, maryland -- frederick maryland, and performs there. and i was able to very proudly tell them the story of joe aboody, and when he died in 2001, i cried. i had not realized how important he was in my life until then and i wrote to his sister grace, about what a wonderful heart he had. >> host: two books that you are currently reading one by peter baker of "the new york times," and leon panetta. what do you think of those two

books? >> guest: well, panetta i haven't -- i'm just starting. but with the peter baker book, it's absolutely the definitive, authoritative work on the bush administration. it's totally fair, totally factual, and, you know, it's very unfortunate that bush did not consent to an interview. he mistrusted someone from "the new york times", but he should not have because baker, you know, i think performed a great public service by telling the truth about the administration. both the problems as well as the successes. >> host: reports that the obama administration has been one of the most secretive or off-camera administrations. >> guest: you know, in some ways i admire what they're doing because i thought that the bush people, you know, could have done a better job of manipulating the press. you know i've covered beats as a reporter, and i know what it's all about. or and it's about, you know, trading favors and access and

that sort of thing. and colorly the obama people -- clearly, the obama people do give access to the people that they favor, and they find people on their side who are telling them. they're probably smart. that doesn't mean they should cover up things or, you know, prevent disclosure of material in the freedom of information act. but i don't really get too upset about that. >> host: from "inside the cia," the cia for most of its existence has treated the american press as an add adversary a target that was to be manipulated at times but never confided in, nor trusted. >> guest: way back in the old days when richard helms was director, they had a so-called pr guy, and he told me his job was just to say no comment and that was the extent of his job.

things have changed. they have wised up. as i mentioned, they let me interview them about the enhanced interrogation as well as a broad range of other issues within the cia. but, of course, they're still secretive, as they should be, about many operations. you know very frequently people the press especially just assumes that we know everything and they're not doing anything, and in most cases the cia is much more successful and knows much more than is publicly known. >> host: "inside congress" came out in 1999. this is a quote by raymond carson former capitol police lieutenant. house speaker carl albert was always drunk. >> guest: well, in those days, almost everyone was drunk including the reporters at washington post. we would go out and have

bloodily marys -- bloody marys for lunch which is how i met my wife pam. i don't think i had bloody maryss, she did, but i would have something else. maybe whiskey sours. that was par for the course. but, no albert was, you know, falling down drunk. and, of course, that was all covered up. you know, the fact that johnson would urinate in front of reporters was never reported. certainly jfk's affairs were never reported. the first time the press actually reported anything of that sort was when gary hart was running for president, and "the new york times" revealed that he was having this affair with donna rice. i reveal in my secret service book "the first family detail," that that was just the tip of the iceberg. warren beatty, hart's friend, arranged to have these gorgeous starlets show up at beatty's home. hart would be there, beatty

would not be there. these starlets would jump in the hot tub with beatty outside, take off their tops and their bottoms and stay overnight, and the secret service agents would just be amazed. there's a 10 there's a 9 going by. so that was the real story on gary hart. >> host: gotta a tell you "inside congress" leads like a jekyll and suzanne novel. lot of sex, money, drugs. >> guest: well, one theme in the "inside congress" book is the double standard, the arrogance of members of congress who, for example, with ted kennedy would drive drunk. a police officer would stop that person and, of course then never arrest them. in fact, they have a term to this day could unarresting meaning they arrested the person then they realized the person was a member of congress. they unarrest them meaning hay just wipe it out they don't make a report. thatthat is going on to this day.

terrible, terrible double standard. these lawmakers are so powerful and so arrogant in many cases and when it comes to their own personal comfort they really dictate exactly what goes on is on capitol hill. >> host: ron kessler, what book are you working on currently? >> guest: i have to keep that a secret. no, i wish i knew. i don't have a current subject. it takes a while, especially in this internet age, you know? you simply have got to come up with something that will really be revelatory because there's so much information out there. i do think i'm a little perverse because i love a challenge, i love a secret subject. if it's too easy, i don't want to do it. so i am looking at different summits. i'm also on -- subjectings. i'm also updating the "first family detail" book with an epilogue to the paper barak version along with an update

going into all these recent developments and revealing some new information. >> host: do youly write at home? >> guest: i write at home. i have desktop my wife has her desktop. we go out to lunch together and when i'm writing i will sometimes -- i'll frequently wake up at five in the morning four in the morning. i just get very intense. i do that after i do the reporting, and then i just have a ball. i love the reporting, i love the writing, i love the promotion. i just love writing bookings. >> host: where you write -- john grisham, we talked to him and he said that he writes on a computer but it's not connected in any way to the internet. >> guest: well, you know, an fbi agent who was in charge of a lot of this told me there's only one way to prevent being hacked, and that is to not use the internet so i think john grisham knows what he's doing. but i do use the internet, you know to get basic facts. it's certainly much easier than

in the old days. so i appreciate that. i appreciate computers. i actually had the first ibm pc back in 1985, and it's helped me tremendously. >> host: 202 is the area coarksd 748-8200 in the east and central time zones 748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. we're talking with author and investigate i reporter ron kessler. you can also contact us via social media booktv@c-span.org is our e-mail address, @booktv if you want to make a comment on twitter, and finally a comment on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. peter is calling in from burris, louisiana. huh, peter. >> caller: hello, sir. thank you, mr. kessler. i appreciate your audacity and your honesty. i have a challenge for you. how about investigating george soros and his corrupting influence on the democrats?

and my question for you is did -- [inaudible] establish the wall between the cia and the fbi in order to protect clinton from the adverse investigations? flush thank you very much. >> guest: yeah, there are so many possible subjects out there, and, in fact almost everyone thinks that they have a book in them. but really is anybody going to buy a book on george soros? i don't think so. when it comes to the other issue of -- what about clinton? >> host: jamie goralik? >> guest: oh, yeah. the so-called wall was developed by a low-ranking justice department official who had the bright idea that, you know you couldn't share information that was developed through intelligence sources versus information that might be used in a prosecution. each though there -- even though there had been 76 prosecutions involving this kind of information before under john

martin 75 of which resulted in convictions, many of which were upheld on appeal. so there was no question about the legality of doing that. but somehow he developed this theory i actually interviewed him, i asked about the fact that previous cases had been upheld on appeal, he said he wasn't aware of that. well jamie goralik and janet reno signed off on that memo and the result was the whole law enforcement community on the federal level was tied up in knots. they couldn't share information, it was nuts. and that also tells you something that's rather embarrassing about those agencies and those individuals. why didn't those people, brave fbi agents who would risk their lives to arrest someone why didn't they speak up? why didn't they challenge that? they didn't. one of the few who did was art cummings who was over

counterterrorism and eventually over counterintelligence as well, and he did actually flout those rules and would not follow them. very, very rare that you find someone like that in the bureaucracy who will take a chance on his job or her job by challenging the conventional wisdom. >> host: wade is in florence, south carolina. hi wade, you're on booktv. >> caller: hi. i really want to thank c-span for shining a flashlight on the dark kit that is our federal government. dark pit. we need to know what our little devils are up to and i appreciate y'all shining a light on it. and especially if we can't do much about it like in the case of who seems to be above -- in the case of hillary clinton who seems to be above the law. but i'd like to ask mr. can kessler -- and, by the way thank you, mr. kessler for your appearance. i've reallien joyed listening to you. what do you believe is the most

serious threat to our way of life and our freedom in the united states? today? >> guest: well, the most serious threat, as i mentioned was -- or is -- the possibility of a weapons of mass destruction attack on our country as well as an electromagnetic pulse of emp attack. with the emp attack, a country like iran could detonate a nuclear device 20 miles up in the atmosphere which would fry our electronics and we would have millions of people who die of starvation because everything from our cars to our refrigerators would be inoperable. and these are things that, you know, are just so devastating that people don't want to think about it they're in denial but it would not be that difficult and that is a real threat. and that's why, you know, i think we all have some sense that we're on the verge of possible destruction these days,

and that that's really how it could happen. >> host: e-mail woodbridge virginia. mr. kessler spoke of president bush's unheralded responses to 9/11 which i have not heard of before but deserve credit. however, this does not excuse his irresponsible culpability in the war with iraq. >> guest: you know from my book "the terrorist watch," i interviewed an fbi agent by the name of george piro. he was born in, i think baghdad. he spoke -- >> host: beirut. >> guest: beirut, thank you. he's still with the fbi. and after saddam was captured he was assigned to try to interview saddam. and he did that to a remarkable degree. he spent nine months with saddam and got quality admissions out of him. and one of them -- and by the way, he manipulated saddam with baby wipes. saddam loved baby wipes so he would give him more baby wipes

if he behaved himself. and they developed a real rapport. in fact, when they finally parted and saddam was about to be hung saddam teared up because they were parting. and one thing that saddam admitted is that he purposely manipulated world opinion to make enemies, but particularly iran believed he had weapons of mass destruction can. he would, for example, not let weapons inspectors into certain palaces, he would have all these other schemes to make it appear that he did have weapons of mass destruction can. so that's -- and on top of that, he admitted that he was planning on developing a nuclear war, nuclear capability within about a year when he thought that sanctions would be lifted because he was paying off u.n. inspectors or, and then he could develop his own little nuclear weapon. so there were plenty of reasons why the cia and all orr intelligence agencies -- all

other intelligence agencies got that wrong. but that was the belief, and you know if faced with that same kind of information, would do the same thing. we simply cannot take a chance in this day and age that we're going to be wiped out by weapons of mass destruction. >> host: and here's the chapter where you talk about george piro saddam's friend it's entitled. did you see judith miller's piece yesterday in "the wall street journal"? she's got a new book coming out -- >> guest: yeah, i heard about it. >> host: basically saying that colin powell did not lie president bush did not lie? >> guest: well, that shouldn't be, you know, such a surprise because, obviously, they've been saying that. and as i've said, all intelligence agencies, you know the british, the israelis, they all thought that, of course, saddam had weapons of mass destruction. you know, and to say that they lied why? i mean no one has ever figured out why. it's just this conspiracy theory

that woodward and bernstein came up with this conflation of different people to call deep throat. i don't know why. why would they want to go into iraq? some conspiracy theory that they just loved the idea of going into iraq. no, that was not until after 9/11 that we went into iraq. and based on that information and, you know obviously the war was not carried out properly at various points, there was not enough thought given to how things would work out after saddam was toppled. so there were many mistakes. but, certainly, the intention of the bush people was to keep us safe. >> host: kent in koppel, texas. please go ahead with your question or comment.

>> caller: i want to thank c-span for bringing light on these issues and having interesting people come how on. i want to take issue with a lot of what mr. kessler has said -- [inaudible] >> caller: good and honest person. yeah. but just very naive, to sum it up in one word. you know, to paint hillary with a brush of being mean and treating people like dirt, she was under a lot of pressure through center parts of her life. and, you you know, she probably budget that way the first -- wasn't that way the first 50 years of her life and she's probably not that way today. >> guest: if that's what she does when she's under pressure, i would hate to see what she does when she's president. >> caller: really neat to read about. the sales of his book are obviously what he's about. why didn't he report are about those more when he was a reporter, you know? >> host: all right kent, let's

get a response. >> guest: do you make a salary by any chance? >> host: kent is now gone. sorry. >> guest: okay. well, i assume that he makes a salary. most of us do make money one way or another, and that's how i make books -- make money by selling books. whether it's called royalty or whether it's called salary, we want to make money we want to do well, we want to get promotions, we want to sell so there's anything -- this is sort of a red herring when people say, well he just wants to sell books. the question is are the books credible do they hold up, and i would say they do. so that's my main response to that. >> host: what's the goal with your writing? what's the goal with your books? shine a light? >> guest: um, shine a light on important subjects. even "palm beach" is an important subject because it's a very closed society, it's the richest place in the world. to see what goes on when

billionaires are able to be in this playpen, to see the schemes, the scams, to see the anti-semitism which still exists within the old guard through clubs -- few clubs still prevent jews or certainly blacks from being members and to see just what the other half lives like i think is certainly interesting. it's certainly fun for me. i love being able to just ask people questions to go into different worlds that i otherwise would not have any access to. i like to go into new subjects you know? if i've already done a book on palm beach i'm not going to do a book on beverly hills, that would be a step down. so that's why the hardest part of my job is coming up with the right subject for the next book. if anybody has any ideas i'm always looking.

>> host: ron kessler if you can't get a source on the record or a secondary source will you not report something that you believe to be true? >> guest: absolutely. you know, many many times i've not reported information that i've been given even about hillary, for example. and, you know it's, by the way, important to me that the books be truthful, honest, accurate and that's why i'm very careful about the information that i provide. >> host: dr. few man chew tweets in, now that they've been revealed, are the secret prisons in europe still being used? >> guest: i don't believe those so-called secret prisons are being used in europe anymore. certainly not at present. >> host: hugh, ashland virginia please go ahead with your question or comment for ron kessler. >> guest: you're triggering a lot of wonderful memories and is i've had a pretty bizarre life.

i just left a voicemail for rachel so you can connect with me for the next few books at least. i'm going to throw out a couple of reporters that were probably when you fist came to washington -- when you fist came to the washington postif you knew jonathan kwitny. he did an article based on information that i gave to him that eventually triggered the eventual resignation of jim wright from speaker of the house in shame. i was interviewed after "the wall street journal" article broke by dave montgomery who was a fort worth star bureau chief in -- >> host: so, hugh, tell you what, why don't you tell us why you're listing these things and what your question is. >> caller: just to give a little bit of information that can be looked at, because mr. kessler seems to be an old school type of reporter but reports the truth. and along the lines of the hillary clinton, this is on

youtube. google wade mcgovern who was cia and did the presidential briefings for seven presidential administrations. he was at a hillary speech he stood up and turned his back on her, and he was beat up by the people in security there, and he won a lawsuit against it. .. >> guest: i would just go back to this information.

recently fox radio wanted to interview me about a piece that they were preparing about the fact that vice president biden collects rent from the secret service and. >> host: you report this. >> guest: actually i did not. because i do not think it was an issue. and the reporter, a very good reporter, very excited about the story, and i said no i think that that is a perfectly legitimate action by the secret service. and why should he be penalized and so he said okay, i would like to put you on anyway. sure eno