it. so yeah that was hot and heavy, i think it was 2012. c-span: did you print a lot of the harry potter books? >> guest: we did the original harry potter here atteberryville graphics at berryville graphics and, basically, that was a very big seller, obviously. and it went on to do more volumes and editions. c-span: was it bigger than "50 shades of grey"? >> guest: well, it was quite different. it was a hard cover, so it was definitely a bigger undertaking. "50 shades," i think if you took all three books was probably in one block of time for one season was probably one of biggest there ever has been. c-span: how many employees do you have? >> guest: there's a total of about 600 employees in the building between the three companies. we have berryville graphics here, coral graphics and dynamic graphic finishing. c-span: and why is this company based in beforelyville, virginia, and how far is it from washington? >> guest: we're about an hour

and a half from washington d.c. it's one of the, i think you go back in the '50s and '60s when these publishers had their own manufacturing sites they wantedded to find a spot out in the country where they had some farm people. they always viewed the farmers as people that would have mechanical aptitude and that they could, you know draw them into the factories which was kind of the mindb set of, you know doubleday. ..

to biographies of prominent political figures like laura bush and joseph kennedy. >> dr. ronald kessler is the secret service system broken? >> guest: this system is broken at the management level not necessarily the agency. the agents themselves eidetic faded, they will take a bullet for the president but there is a management culture of retaliating against those to point out problems or threats, punishing agents who question any thing, promoting agents and to management who preached and the secret service is in vulnerable so it is a corrupt culture. you saw an example of that when julia pearson, the previous director, claimed after the intrusion on the white house by gonzalez that he was stopped at

the board, that he was not armed, that was the total why. how can any agency put out a lie like that and think they can get away with it? when it came out that that was not true the new director was asked about that adhering and whether anybody would be accountable for issuing false information and he said that wasn't all law it was an error. i said how the you know was an error? he said i don't know. i don't know how that happened. how could you appoint anybody like that to be a permanent director and number 2, how can anybody at the lower bubble trust someone like that? how can they trust him to stop this corrupt culture? how could you trust him with any information with any threats? that is the heart of the problem that the secret service today. >> host: how did that culture

develop? >> guest: it seems it started in 2003 when prominent homeland security took over the secret service, previously it had been the treasury department. that made it a little more political. they had to fight for budgets more although they had this attitude the we don't need any money. had they leave the door of the white house open, they are so arrogant they don't feel they need to have good alarm systems and in addition to leadership part of this culture, mark sullivan, when he presided over all this fiasco, the intrusion by the party crashers of the state dinner, the prostitution scandal which is a story i broke, every time this happened president obama would say i have confidence in the secret service. he should have replaced mark

sullivan long ago with someone outside the agency who would not be beholden to interests within the agency who would change the culture. that is what you do in any organization when it is in trouble, bring in somebody from the outside and i am afraid president obama has guaranteed with the selection of clancy that the secret service will continue to lurch from one fiasco to another. >> host: is it helpful or hurtful that the president basically has a over who is the director? >> guest: the president should have essay, he should have the same but at the same time the director should be confirmed by the senate the same as the fbi director, literally hundreds of obscure officials you never heard of. for example the u.s. marshals in 62 districts in the country are confirmed by the senate. that is one of the

recommendations in my book "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents". i am sure that in place, some house members on both sides of the aisle introduce legislation to require confirmation of secret service directors, we would not have mr. clancy in charge. we would have an outside director ideally someone who had been a high-ranking fbi official because the fbi has done a spectacular job since 9/11 of keeping us safe from a foreign terrorist attack. they would never stand for this cover-up culture that you see today in the secret service. >> host: ronald kessler, the secret service agents have to sign nondisclosure agreements? >> guest: it was always understood they you never disclosed what you see behind the scenes which can be pretty amazing. but after the prostitution scandal came out and i broke that, secret service never wanted to have that out in the first place the secret service

did require confidentiality agreements. so agents are not allowed to speak to the press. they do so on peril of losing their job. >> host: jane stanford in 2009 rat in about the secret service originally wrote in the washington post, what is truly dangerous is the national inquirer president's secret service: behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect". without trust and confidence and their agents president keep the match spying ranges and safety range when split seconds may count. >> guest: there's no gossip in this book. these are firsthand accounts. half of the quote star on the record. and investigative reporting. it began with energizer who was built and still is bill

clinton's blonde mistress. abuse of agents, and foreign punishment. and dick cheney's daughter tried to get her agents to take friends to restaurants, and got details to be removed over that. the reason ronald reagan was shot by hinckley is the white house staff overruled the secret service, and spectators within 15 feet out of the washington hilton and that is why hinckley was able to shoot him. so these were major disclosures we need to know about especially that we need to know about our leaders and what they're like behind-the-scenes.

>> host: with regard to energize the u.n. in your book "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents" make sure anyone who visits the president is locked in except there is one you don't log into the book the blonde. >> guest: this is what secret service agents were instructed on when they were assigned to guard the president and hillary clinton. small examples of what takes place that could jeopardize the security of the president. the larger scale where bradley cooper the actor went to a white house correspondents' dinner, president obama is about to speak of high ranking secret service official in new york district agents at the hotel to let bradley cooper and his suv into the secure space in front

of the hotel where only secret service vehicles were allowed and had to be screened for explosives. anyone could strap and explosive under a vehicle and it was just a favor to branded to perhaps security people. agents were horrified. they are risking their lives to protect the president and are being told just let him in. we don't care about the explosive. that is the kind of culture i am talking about which jeopardize the life of the president. the other example is on a regular basis agents will be told by management to let people into events without magnetometer or metal detection screening. just like passengers in an airplane without metal detection screening. the reason is the secret service is so spineless they will bow to pressure whether it is from the white house, the bush and obama white house or campaign staff to

let people in because the event is about to start. there's a line outside. the secret service with their attitude didn't provide enough magnetometers so the political staff say we don't want those people outside the event. we want him to be here and sure enough the secret service law from in. you could have five terrorists with grenades to take out the president or the vice president. that is something in my book that still hasn't hit the press. there are dozens of examples of corner cutting, laxness, other malfeasance in the book and still haven't come out. >> host: to take your latest book "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents" or any of your books, what are some of the revelations you found that didn't make quite a splash you thought they would? >> one is joe biden when he

goes to wilmington back to his home which he does several times a week, he will instruct agents to keep his military aid, the nuclear football which launches a counterattack on us, on a country like russia or china or north korea. at least behind other camps along with medical doctor because he wants to have this image of regular joe doesn't want a big long motorcade of 25 vehicles so he says said back a mile behind. if obama were taken out there would not be time for the military aid with the football to get to biden so he could launch a counter-attack. what could be more irresponsible? what could be more reckless? yet that has not been picked up by the press. in addition, he goes back as i said several times a week. went back a few times a year

but he'd treats air force 2 like a little taxi. has been $1 million since joe biden took office and i got the figures under the freedom of information act from the air force. some writer questions whether this was true and what could be more official than the actual details of every trip provided by the air force. the only thing that was picked up by the press is the fact that joe biden likes to skinny dip at his full at the vice president's residence which offends secret service agents. talk about of war on women. that borders on harassment to go around naked in front of female >> host: from "the first family detail: secret service agents

reveal the hidden lives of the presidents" chapter 2, hillary. if joe biden is inconsiderate with secret service agents hillary clinton can make richard nixon look like mahatma gandhi. when in public calories miles and backs graciously. as soon as the cameras are gone, her ain't real personality, nastiness and imperious this become evident. >> i love revealing secrets that are important, that have some meaning. in this case, what this means is we need to look at the character of candidates. because the character influences how they carry out their presidency what their policies are. look at richard nixon, the fact that before he was president he was involved in this ethics issue? sure enough we got watergate. we need to look at character, track record. the same things we look at whenever we choose an employee

or a friend. anybody in our lives. when it comes to the presidency somehow people just forget about those things and focus on what they said in the latest speech. in the case of hillary, she treats the little people, the people she claims she is going to help if she is president with contempt. she is abusive, nasty, flies into temper tantrums over nothing, even going over a bump in a row. that is an on the record quote from a secret service agent who would drive her. what kind of personality is that? and unbalanced personality, someone who is certainly a hypocrite, claims she is going to help the middle class and yet she can't bear to treat the same people with decency. the reason he committed suicide

is he was depressed but his suicide was triggered by fbi agents to investigate the death, of the fact that a week before the suicide there was a big meeting in the white house with vince foster and aids and colleagues, they had a disagreement over a legal issue. and a small town never make it in the big time. humiliated this guy in front of his own colleagues. and interviewed by the fbi agents and family members aids two fbi agents on the record, that episode triggered a suicide week later -- >> host: we will get into your other books about the fbi and cia and congress as we go.

does your material need to be vetted by anyone? >> guest: is gone over by libel issues by a libel or leila -- lawyer but i have two way back, and the washington post. president nixon would trend, and charity would cost millions of dollars in legal fees. according to one of my books in the 80s, i am very careful and i do think of myself as a lawyer. one thing i do trust someone i interviewed don't trust, even if an adversarial situation i presented draft of what i can

plan to write to the individual. so i solicit corruption and any comments. in one of my books previous secret service books i revealed the treasury secretary under president bush, mr. snow, had a mistress he would go to see every weekend. secret service would have to go down there and secret service agents see him kissing his mistress mistresses, would like to come back, they slammed the doors to try to alert mr. snow. i presented a draft of what i plan to write to mr. snow. he had a high-powered lawyer a very good lawyer, richard cohen

former virginia attorney general, former attorney in richmond called me and sure enough we schmooze over this he invited me to lunch. we negotiated he pointed out one or two minor errors. i put his and the little higher. changed wording here and there but the story was there and sure enough i could sleep at night not worrying about libel suits. >> host: how do you get secret service agents fbi agents and cia agents to talk to you? >> guest: usually i water board some. that works pretty well. i don't really know the answer to that, i know that i am very interested in what they do and

the first story on fbi criminal profiling in 1985 in the washington post i was fascinated by how they vote serial killers, serial rapists, they sense that i really love to hear about their work. i also think i tell stories they appreciate. one of my books lead to the dismissal of william sessions, the fbi director over his abuses alive very comfortable exposing him, abuses. the prostitution scandal. i say that. as i said that earlier, the fbi is successful the whole culture under bob muller and art coming

this and counterterrorism. and getting sources so the next plot as opposed to putting people in jail. and was a matter of emphasis. and people cooperate with me, he has a lot of sources, might as well tell him more. >> host: when did you suspect mark fault was deep throat? >> guest: i did a complete book about the bureau going back to herbert hoover. because of fbi contacts i was able to interview mark felt in california. he was one of the highest ranking fbi officials during watergate. i went up to his house which was owned by his daughter joan.

when i went to the door she said this guy bob woodward was out here a year ago and she didn't know who he was. she said he came in a white limousine and had this limousine parked blocks away this was -- there is no way woodward would have that. on the new york post they picked up the story and that was the first really incredible evidence that mark felt was deep throat. by the way, next to carl bernstein and the washington post. they would write their stories over bernstein's typewriter because woodward wasn't a very

good writer, bernstein was. they would argue about sources, did you check this one or that one, and i said to him, we actually argue all day long, not just at night, i also knew that there was a real deep for wrote because they would discuss their sources, making that sources, there was a conspiracy theories that deep throat was a combination of different people and i don't know why anyone would think that what the point of that was and by the way, and embarrassing footnote to my life a week or two after watergate started, and asked me twice, replace carl bernstein on this team. bernstein was in disrepute, abusing his expense account.

for example a month later the post would get a bill for this metal card left in some garage somewhere. i really wanted to push him aside and i didn't want to do it. i love to do original investigative reporting. i was very involved in two c reese of poker worse. she was also >> from "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents" the barack and michel obama tree the with respect. >> this is an important clue to character. people like obama even if they don't like his policies as opposed to hillary she is not a very likable person.

obama said you are not likable enough, hillary. this is an example of the fact the my books are apolitical they tell it like it is. my behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect" presents flattering and unflattering anecdotes of presidents of both political parties and as the credibility of the books. >> host: what goes into the president's annual trip to hawaii? what planning by the secret service? >> guest: two weeks before the secret service will do it in advance and interview local law enforcement to see if there are any threats out there. they will go over the whole territory, plan out everything down to the most minute detail of the motorcade route. one time when george h. w. bush was going to give a speech in

oklahoma, campaigning for reelection, local law enforcement a local law enforcement said there is a psychic in town is incredibly reliable in the past, sent letters to the bodies of murder victims. and a sniper, on an overpass. secret service agents were embarrassed to take this seriously. do we know anything more about the alleged plot, the motorcade vehicles at the air force base they said could you -- they went to the air force base, where the motorcade was. this was on the record from one

of the agents that was in charge. they asked a few other questions and said this will come out of air force one wearing a sport jacket or sport coat and they said that is absurd, he is always wearing a suit, she doesn't know what she's talking about but the next morning he came out wearing a sport jacket and judge chill wind down their spines. they went to an alternate route that did not go under an overpass and george bush was safe. he was not told that the time but knows about it now. did they go to look if there was a sniper at the overpass? the secret service agents are very impressive fbi agents admiring the more than any other law enforcement, when they get threats they interview if they can find them and put them in to

three categories, class 3 is the most serious where it is believed they would really carry out the plot, they have the capability, they have firearms training and in those cases when the president goes to their home town the secret service would like to show up at the home of one of those individuals and more in some that they will be watched and they will be watched. and class 1 is where someone is outside the bar which i could see kill the president, i really hate him, they interview everybody involved and find he is not really serious and will not be prosecuted because it is a crime to threaten the president. >> host: when is crown? >> guest: crown is the code name for the white house. these are code names often generated by computer although an individual under protection

can veto parts to dealer code name. for example george w. bush was going to be called himmler. he was reminded of his drinking days so he became trailblazer. dick cheney was engler because he likes to fish. these code names are not classified but they are helpful because on the one hand in a crowd of secret service agents, want to refer on his radio to someone under protection, other people won't know who he is talking about. on the other hand clarifies the name because some names may sound the same but when you say crown for white house or renaissance for machel of barack obama no one understands what they're talking about.

>> host: from your book "inside the cia: revealing the secrets of the world's most powerful spy agency" 11 you write that today the cia is different from the one that created sensational headlines in the 70s about drug testing and domestic surveillance. >> guest: this is how i present the story that the cia back in those days before there was any oversight by congress whatsoever, congress didn't know what the cia or fbi were doing, engaging in foolish practices, they have a plot to get castro's beard to fall off because that would somehow mean people wouldn't respect him anymore. just insane and often illegal. illegal often goes with unfocused efforts. my good friend john martin was

in charge of prosecuting spies for 25 years. the prosecuted 76 spies. john walker all of the big names, only one prosecution resulted in a not guilty plea and he gave me a very good framework for looking at these things. legal framework if you will. j. edgar hoover, when hoover would go after any war protesters exercising their first amendment rights, he would not only violate their rights, he also was confusing real criminal activity with rights that our people have the right to exercise. the result is because of lack of focus, he didn't do a very good job catching spies not to mention trampling on our rights which isn't to say hoover didn't do a lot of good things.

when it came to the cia, on the one hand in the old days they would engage in foolish plot. just like the fbi they are responsible for the fact the we have not had successful attack. all we see in the press these days is demonization of the cia the fbi, in the case of the nsa not one actual abuse has ever -- and abuse being something illegal or done for political purposes and very good reasons for the collection of data that the nsa is engaged in. that is how they stopped spies and of course knowing these people have become friends, seeing how they work, going to the fbi laboratory, going to the secret service training facility, learning how they train agents, i have

appreciation for what they do and heroes who kept us safe certainly make mistakes the fact is there has not been abuse by the fbi since the hoover days. that is important to keep in mind. we have a pea running stories, the cia in yemen is on to bomb plots, put on planes, revealing that even if there is no abuse, there is no -- they at doing their job as they should be and yet that compromises the source could result in death, could result in wm d attack in our country wiping out millions of people, this is the standard of journalism i don't get. it did not exist when i was at the washington post.

bob woodward wanted to story about the fact that nsa had penetrated the soviet communication line under the sea and even though it turned out the soviets knew the nsa had done that the nsa was introducing this information. ben bradlee, the executive editor would not run that story. same point about what a piece story. there was no abuse. they were doing their job. why would you want to write our security by running a story like that? and yet you see the press lining up behind a pee like lemmings supporting what they did. i don't get it. it is outrageous. >> host: did j. edgar hoover abuse is directorship? >> guest: half of what he did was very good. reestablished great law enforcement agency that is a

mired throughout the world, he was farsighted when it came to establishing fingerprints, laboratory, he would not count on brutality that was common in police agencies, he was a stickler for fact, never making up stories but at the same time he abused his position to keep his job. he wanted to remain director for ever and he almost did. almost 50 years until he died in office. one key to doing that was he would be blackmail files and they gave him the budget he wanted. in my book the bureau i document how one particular chief of staff over his new building

was potentially black males, an agent over to tell him he knew he was having an affair even though he was married and they expected him to jail this guy, hope you have photographs. that was the end of that but that was a document on the record how hoover worked. in addition, he would let john f. kennedy knows that he knew about his affair with a woman who is having an affair with a mafia figure. jfk was never going to fire hoosier. if you look at what happened in those days. >> host: good afternoon and welcome to booktv on c-span2. this is our monthly in death program. we have one author on to talk about his or her boat, this month is best selling author ronald kessler the author of 20

books. we will be talking about some of the things you have heard in the past half hour. we will put the numbers on screen because we want your input as well. 202-74 at 8-8200. in east and central time zones 748-8201, for those out west if you can't get through on the phone and want to make a comment on social media@c-span --@booktv is our twitter handle or you can make a comment on our face book page facebook.com/booktv. finally you can send an e-mail to booktv@c-span.org. how did you get into this business? >> high school newspaper, i did a story in massachusetts, prevented scores from opening on

sundays and of the clergymen, and there was no need for that. how to explode myths which is what i like to do but i got into investigative journalism at cleric university newspaper comments and i did sort of a survey of discrimination against blacks tim clark students i would call classified ads for rental apartments and say i am a cards didn't is it still available they would say yes, i would say by the way is there any problem? almost half of rooms that there's a problem. i ran that is the lead story it was picked up by the war star-telegram, that resulted in an investigation by the massachusetts commission against discrimination which actually filed complaints about some of

the people i named, would not rent to a black so that whetted my appetite for investigative journalism. >> host: washington post. >> i was at the washington post from 1970 to 1985, previously started a list of telegram the fact that i did that story led to my getting a job fair. in the boston herald for three years and the washington post for 15 years as an investigative reporter. >> host: why did you leave? >> guest: i left to write books. many opportunities for example, second of book, still on leave from the post, called the richest man in the world. he was the world's preeminent arms dealer and we would manipulate each other back and forth and he invited me to a

birthday party with board shields and sean connery and my wife and i when and i thought this really is fun. there was a party on his yacht which was used in the movie never say never again. of books gave me an opportunity to go in depth. my wife ham at the washington post had been secretary as we call them, the managing editor the one who came up with the term deep for wrote. she became a reporter. not only supported my idea of leaving the post but encourage it and that was tremendous because it was a big risk to leave a steady job and go out into the free enterprise world where you never know how book is going to do. i have done 20 books and never looked back. >> host: what is news max and what was your association with

it? >> guest: is the largest conservative website and i was there for six years as chief washington correspondent. gave me an opportunity to be a reporter again. i would go in the view, everybody from george bush and rodney to nor ville jim cramer brian lamb and i loved it. it was fun and in the process i exposed various of the abuses, one that there was the third intruder at the white house along with the state dinner also exposed the fact that the reason the cia director had to resign was there was an fbi investigation going on through his involvement with his mistress. so i practiced real journalism while i was there. >> host: ronald kessler is the

author of 20 books. here are his most recent ones. in 2002 "the bureau: the secret history of the fbi" came out. the cia at war, "a matter of character: inside the white house of george w. bush" in 2004, laura bush in 2006, the terrorist watch in terrorist watch in president's secret service: behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect" in 2009, the secrets of the fbi and "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents". why two books on the secret service about the same topic? >> guest: the second book focuses on new revelations and focuses more on first family's, the kids, spouses, so i have

almost a dozen bullets in the press release, how new revelations about the secret service. i mentioned reagan was shot because of his own white house staff and the joe biden epazote and a number of new items in the book. and also went much more into this corner cutting culture this laxness with many more examples and yet you would think president obama would wise up and do something about it. that is a real area of concern. almost a miracle there has not been an assassination given this corner cutting and covering up.

>> host: y in the middle of all these books on agencies did you do biographies of george w. bush and laura bush? >> guest: after 9/11 i became much more attuned to the fact the press was misrepresenting counterterrorism measures. the washington post would routinely do stories claiming -- they were doing terrible things. in the last paragraph something would show the whole story was bogus or it would never show up at all. i cite examples of this in my book the terrorist watch. i have to say the post is very fair and very balanced to use the fox description pleasure to read and under the present editor this started under the

publisher, of course the result is credibility. it is funny fox news will say even the washington post says so and so exciting with the conservative line or pointing out something conservatives like. the fact is the post day in and day out is doing a magnificent job of telling both sides. what was the question? >> why the biographies on laura bush? >> he was actually crucial in changing this culture in the fbi to make it more prevention oriented. a few days after 9/11 he was briefed by the fbi director on the investigation, possible prosecution into 9/11 and bush said that is fine but i want to know what you are doing to stop

the next plot? supposedly brainless president created a whole new infrastructure that has made us safe. not to mention no child left behind act which is viewed to me because i could not read in the fourth grade. the bogus method which is called whole language where he basically guest at the words. when my mother remarried, i was in the fourth grade, asked to stand and read and i couldn't read. i remember being embarrassed and sure enough they put me in finex. i've learned to read. that is something george bush

pushed. that is why i did the book on him. >> host: in your book the terrorist watch you quote somebody said the most important thing has been overall strengthening of the intelligence community. george w. bush's homeland security adviser. is intelligence reform, greater resources, and human intelligence, transformation of the fbi patriot act, the technical tools like the nsa terrorism surveillance program and the financial program. some of these changes are greater than the parts. now the u.s. is on the offense. >> created the national to anti-terrorism center and the claim fbi and cia are side by side 24 hours a day sharing information totally different from what happened before 9/11 with this so-called law which was preventing intelligence

either between the fbi and cia or within the same squad of the fbi. all these changes have been responsible for the fact the we have not had a successful attack and people don't understand that. they think it is law or don't even think about it. ac arrests by the fbi every few months in the paper but don't connect the dots to how come that happens? the reason it happens is this new approach, very farsighted measures, one that the fbi has tripwire where they get companies to make explosives to report any suspicious purchase. as a result that program applied to blow of george w. bush's home in dallas was thwarted by the fbi. another important part of this

secret teams, tactical operation teams that break into offices to plant bugging devices. their use in almost every important case, terrorism organized crime it espionage, political corruption. it is unbelievable what they do. still unbelievable to me that the fbi gave me this and approved it. a week or two before the break-in at a mafia home or an embassy agents will watch the premises and see who goes in and who goes out and on the night of the break-in they will have agents at those people's homes to make sure they don't go back to the premises and disturb the agents when they're putting bugs in and if they do try to go back agents will disrupt them and divert them, give them a traffic ticket or a phony traffic accident or open of fire hydrant in the area so nobody can go

back and also take a photo of any dog on the premises and show that to a veterinarian on contract and he prescribed a tranquilizer to shoot into the dog with a dart gun so he is knocked our sheet during the break-in and at the end of the break-in they wake him up again with some other drug because they don't want suspicious dogs who are sleepy that might tip of the occupants that the fbi was there so they want to break into an office suite and put bugs in. they go to elevator school, takeover elevators, going to this office building during the day, take over one of the elevators, bell on top of the elevator on the roof and in the middle of the night they will get out by going into this week, put the bugs in get back in the elevator, come out wearing

business suits and nobody is wiser. one more technique, they want to put bugs into a home in the middle of the night they will take a photo in front of the home and blow it up into a huge tarp did they draped over the front of the house and go behind the tarp in the middle of the night so that nobody walking by can see them and they will defeat the alarms and the locks and break in and put the bugs in. one time they were putting bugs into a mafia front in philadelphia, and this store overlook the bar. they didn't want to go in the back because it could be booby trapped so they had going front but the patrons could see them break in and defeating the alarms. so they borrow this city bus, drove in front of the electronics store, they got out

put the hood to make it look like it had broken down. they went in broke through the locks, the bus went around the corner until they put the bugs in but the bus went by bus stop and they were furious about that. as soon as the best opened its doors at the electronics for these agents ran in and the agents didn't know they did that. the agents were from different offices, the secret teams -- some of the agents started taking off their weapons and walkie-talkies and started ringing, let me off and the agent who was driving said stop bothering me. i have enough trouble driving this bus but another one got up and there was a shotgun over his shoulder for and these guys went wild, let me off, so finally the agent understood what was going on, stopped the bus let them

out, they went running down the street and everyone -- no one heard from them again. i couldn't believe this was happening, the fbi going back to hoover, was the size of a postage stamp. a little bit thicker. it would record for 20 hours or transmit as you wish and that is the key to solving many fbi cases. >> host: back to your book the terrorist watch, spying on americans, is there increased surveillance of americans? the war on terror? >> that is a term i object to. the fbi conducts investigations puts it bugs in to do spying under court order and if they go after you you will be

convicted. they do a very thorough and honest job. critics and journalists invented and if there was the real case of so-called spying for no good reason that person would be prosecuted and that would be the end of the. >> host: what about the nsa gathering phone calls? >> guest: the nsa gathering phone calls, the phone companies to keep their records for years and years but then they decided it is too costly and after a few months, and one of the hijackers in san diego, had been making calls to terrorist operations overseas but looking back they

could find out who this person was because the records had been destroyed. i wanted to know the identity of this guy. wanted to know even wiretapping they just wanted to know who he was and they couldn't. if this program had been in affect at that time they would have found out who he was an done surveillance and would have stopped the clock. there is no question about that. you can see they would have elected the plot. that is what the program is about. keeping his records in case they need to find out who was identified with that and start an investigation. maybe he has nothing to do with anything. maybe they perceive to conduct surveillance in a legal manner

and stop millions of people being killed because with wm d it would be easy for someone from isis for example to unleash a chemical or biological or radiological attack on our country. that is what is at stake. some how people think about blowing up malls and shooting a few people in times square. that is not the real threat. the real threat is wm d which could change our whole existence. >> host: what is your connection to the senate intelligence report on torture? >> the senate intelligence report which was a totally non-partisan -- what is the word -- carried out by the democrats, the republican staff was not allowed to participate and also made it a point of not interviewing anybody involved in the so-called intense interrogation program to find out about the program. in this report, i was

essentially a patsy for the cia. along with douglas jail, the new york times reported because the cia did interviews in which they claimed is intense interrogation program has led to actual lots, only three terrorists were water boarded. we have had more journalists water boarded than those individuals because journalists have been explaining how this thing works. thousands of military had been water boarded. the dictionary definition of torture is infliction of pain. it doesn't involve infection of pain it certainly involves caring people and is not anything we are looking forward to having but the senate report

criticized the because what turns out to be the truth according to obama's directors that in fact these lead to plots including clues to uncovering where osama bin laden was leading to his death. interesting, there was a story which only mentioned me as the apache and i compared at the time with the fbi which agreed in essence this was correct. bloomberg did a story naming only me as the culprits, why? because obviously if they mention the new york times reports we are not such fools after all. >> host: they consider yourself

a political conservative? >> guest: if you're interviewing someone from the mainstream media, that person is probably on the liberal side and you would not be interested in his or her political beliefs or thinks they are questionable. after 9/11, i was very centrist image after 9/11 i became very concerned for our own safety and concerned democrats were undercutting some of these efforts that we need to keep us safe and republicans on the other hand were strong on national security. recently we have seen a lot of i think wobbling on the conservative side. you see rand paul constantly going after the patriot act which actually is a very simple measure which helps to protect us but the result was i started

to change my views. but they don't affect my books. they are totally non-partisan. i could go down dozens of examples in the secret service books. .. many examples and the secret service book of very critical information about republicans ranging from bush to newt gingrich, to rand paul, ted cruz and on and on. so i like to tell an honest story, i feel very accountable being honest, and that is what i really enjoy. >> host: ron kessler is our guest, we spent the last hour getting to know him a little bit. cost >> host: call us at the phone numbers listed below according to your time zone.

jim right here in fairfax county, virginia, in the suburbs, you are first with author ron kessler. >> that afternoon as we enjoy this discussion so far, but there's something i must ask you because i forget what book it was then, when i read it i was laughing to hard i about fell out of my chair. he reported in one of your books that are former vice president spiro agnew had had an affair, can you explain that he meant i can't believe it. >> there is this guy talking about this in more ways than one. he preached family values and that was this whole thing and yet he was having an affair with one of his very shapely aids and also with a few other women, i described how secret service agents would take him to a hotel in washington in order to have

an affair with these women. and i'm not saying that because jfk had affairs all the time they're for news about president, but certainly it was a clue to the character and something that i think is important. and so that is one reason why these stories are relevant. >> host: spiro agnew mr. and mrs. nixon. okay. this was from in the book "in the president's secret service: behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect." this question is from dave at in florida. >> good afternoon. we have met i have been talking about your book a matter of

character. and we are talking about a discrepancy [inaudible] joe kennedy in your biography. completely exonerated joe kennedy from having been a bootlegger i would say everyone here to for including you including him in that and there is a picture of him in cuba with a bunch of bootleggers that is hanging in ernest hemingway's house in key west florida. and so i think that the discrepancy should be discussed.

>> host: "the sins of the father" came out in 1996. >> guest: yes, it went into how he created this whole dynasty. the information about him being involved in the mafia was quoted but it was certainly not the most important revelation in the book, the book when an to his admiration for hitler, his anti-semitism and some other things that are well known about him as well. and it also revealed that rosemary kennedy, one of his daughters who supposedly was retired was actually mentally ill, and that is why she had her lobotomized. and it turned her into mush. and so on the record with the actual age and who performed

this lobotomy. the only interview in which he said that she was mentally ill he described the symptoms and said we never would have performed a lamotta beyond someone who was. in addition rosemary had a fourth grader with the tech that she did. someone who is mentally could not possibly do such combo kit ed mountain division. joe kennedy simply did not want what he thought was an embarrassment. because he wanted one of his sons to be president. and so it was more palatable if rosemary was hidden away being mentally ill. there was also joe kennedy's secretary in hyannisport and also his mistress for nine years, three times longer than joe kennedy's affair with gloria

swanson. but i know that ted kennedy's people put out the word to the media that they better stay away from this book and it didn't get much pickup. one more anecdote, my mother was going to the party for that book and she got out the plane and said he must be going to my sons party. and he was very gracious and he did get invited after that was he didn't go. something he said about my mother she got everything revolved around me. she also had a crusading spirit and she was a concert pianist and musician and at the same time [inaudible] she said i would pay for this but today other online retailers

have proven her right. [inaudible] also when donald trump gave a book party for my book inside palm beach and america's bridges, call it a midlife crisis more parties and more champagne with my wife mother chatted with her in palm beach and later my wife asked my mother what do you think of donald and as control, he's doing a lot of great things for himself and i'm thinking that that was her whole life was music. and so pam comes up with a lot of my book titles for example as additional ideas about things to pursue as well and in the

case of this kennedy had the state they are and we had a bottle of chardonnay at a restaurant, and i said wouldn't it be great to do a book on palm beach and she said that is the only book i would collaborate with you on. and that is why i did the book because i probably would not have seriously considered a book subject like that so different from my other books unless she had said that. and so a lot of her influence shows up in my book. and i would like to redo a very short passage because he contributes her vivid descriptions to the book and so for example she talked about the spying and who among other

things would be involved in orgies and other things. [inaudible] but she wrote in the book in mid july she described the bar and nightclub in palm beach and she said that in mid-july a blonde is complete dressed woman came prancing past and stopped. the palm beach strut, all women have it straightening up and sticking out their chests and walking past the bar. and they are on display and they know how to work it. they wear short skirts and simple expensive clothing. low-cut dresses are everywhere and [inaudible]

>> okay great. pam kessler. the next call is from pompano beach, florida. >> caller: hello, i had two questions one was the hillary jerrett affair and whether jack anderson got his justice out of that. the other one was a brief report on a makeshift agent who is in charge of twin towers security and how does premonition of the towers being attacked. and it seems to be an undercovered story in which i'm interested in hearing anything else about that. >> host: can you explain more about the valerie jarrett and jack anderson connection. >> caller: i hope i got the names right. my understanding is that jack anderson is the alleged leak that was involved in that story.

>> host: i think that he had passed away before. >> guest: okay, i'm sorry, the wife of the statesmen of the cia agent. >> host: okay, let's hear from ron kessler. >> guest: that whole thing was very overblown. somehow when i came out the press wasn't interested but was actually a person that out of her and not purposely but just gossiping and at the time she

was not actually undercover and there was no real problem involved in revealing her identity. and the other item is about the fbi and of course we all have dreams about all kinds of things and there were so many things, that is what we tried to do with the real information and it depends on the sensitivity of information, how much with some minor details. one night a couple said that they felt like having twinkies and asked the waiter if he would get them twinkies. so he actually went out to the local supermarket and got them

twinkies with whipped cream and raspberry and the couple gave the waiter $500, the typical palm beach kind of activity. someone like that is on the record, i don't need any additional collaboration, and i do try to get quite a bit of collaboration. >> host: he said the were very affected by 9/11, what were you doing on that date to . >> guest: i was driving to interview an fbi agent and i heard about the attack in new york and i saw black smoke billowing and i decided to turn around and go home. i called the fbi guy and he did

not know about it. this is the way things were, they did not have any alarms as to notify anyone of something like this but i later interview that person after things calmed down. >> host: we often get calls on a programmer from people who think that 9/11 was an inside job. >> guest: looking at video, you have people that say this, you know, it goes back to the jfk assassination when there are all these claims that the moffatt did it that the kgb did it and there's all this supposition. but it doesn't mean that they did it.

and if you look at the one commission report they show in their opinion very conclusively that one person killed jfk and they just can't fathom this how someone could be taken out by some nut which is often the case and assassins tend to be narcissistic, looking for attention and often mentally ill or borderline mentally ill. and that is how this occurs and there is no grand conspiracy in those cases. >> host: you are on with author ron kessler. >> caller: good afternoon and happy easter.

>> guest: happy easter. >> caller: i read the bureau, i was roaming around the bookstore and looking for something to read that caught my eye and i wound up reading inside the cia and white house and your books are great, i can attest to this fact, those are the only ones that i have read. but you certainly are very much are just the facts and very apolitical. you know i was trying to think of a question and i really just wanted to call up and say that i enjoy your work or it may be the only thing i can think of is how did they do on the west wing with secret service, they pop up with the big assassination attempts are out the seven years that was on.

so thanks again for all of your work. i had no idea you sat next to carl bernstein. >> guest: yes, thank you, i appear in the movie the presidents men. >> host: not a character, but you yourself. .. >> guest: one comment i got from a reader that i really treasure, and that is this reader described how he first fell in love with reading. his mother brought him to a library, and back then hamburger

cost ten cents a pound, and he said please never stop writing because your words quench my thirst for knowledge and exercise my brain as if it has run a four mile -- a four-minute mile. i'm just a joe schmo type of guy, but your writing makes me feel that life is worth living and that books are the secret of long-lasting satisfaction. >> host: well, robert cameron posts on our facebook page, i am reading your book, "the first family detail." having spent a career in law det enforcement, here's what i don't get: with plenty of jobs in law enforcement, i really can't understand the mindset thatan' allows an agent to willingly take the abuse, ignorance and depravity of some of those you had not only to protect, buthose willing to die for. those like the hateful hillaryo clinton, the oh, so self-righteous hypocrite jimmy carter and the rest of that alling. on jimmy carter, he would pretend to be this jolly peanut farmer, this

populist but he actually told agents he didn't want them to say hello to them in the morning on the way to the oval office, it was just too much bother to say hello back. he would pretend to carry his own luggage in front of the cameras, but it was empty, or he would give it to aides to carry, he would come in at five in the morning to the oval office and tell the press that he was working hard for the american people, but then he would fall asleep on the sofa. how those agents took it, is beyond me. it's just a testimony to the patriotism that they will even take a bullet for hillary who treats them with such contempt, if necessary, to save her life. at the same time, they have to put up with this management culture that punishes them for reporting something such as the shots at the white house in 2011 this culture naturally leads to all the problems that

we've seen including the most recent one where two very high ranking agents in management had been drinking at a party, retirement party went into the white house, impeded the investigation, bumped into a barrier and then uniformed officers of the secret service wanted to arrest them for drinking and driving, and to give them sobriety tests, but their supervisor overruled them. that's obstruction of justice. and then you saw mr. clancy, a not even knowing about it until five days later, and then putting these two high ranking agents on desk jobs claiming that he needs to do that because there is an inspector general investigation, but at the same time low ranking agents were

involved in a prostitution scandal and other behavior and there was an investigation by the inspector general those people were put on administrative leave, their guns badges, credentials were taken away. so it's a double standard between management and the agents that mr. clancy, the current director continues to uphold. >> host: can't get through on the phone lines and want to make a comment e-mail us, booktv@c-span.org. james in bellevue washington, you're on with ron kessler. >> caller: mr. kessler, i'll try to make this as quickly as possible. you touched on what i was talking about -- what i want to talk about a little while ago that every american ought to be concerned about especially in light with what's going on in switzerland now and a country that is working to create intercontinental missiles in addition to atomic weapons.

my congressman is adam smith who's ranking member of the armed services committee. he had a town meeting here in bellevue, washington, a little while ago, and i asked him, i said forget isis except individually. what i'm concerned about is some terrorist getting ahold of an atomic weapon and wiping out a million people in seattle or new york or los angeles. how secure -- and i want to pick your brain with your contacts in the cia and the nsa and maybe you don't know. but i asked mr. smith how secure are these nuclear weapons in pakistan? now, he gave me a generic answer, but have you ever asked that question of anyone that knows? >> host: that's james in bellevue washington. >> guest: i know that the cia makes it a very important point to try to get access to weapons

of that sort and to be able to, one way or another, neutralize them either through some of the people who may be in charge or possibly with cyber attacks. so i don't think we're falling asleep at the job when it comes to issues like that. but, yeah my attitude is look what happened during world war ii where we saw countries where we did nothing the isolationistses like joe kennedy -- isolationistses like joe kennedy actually admired hitler didn't want to have any intervention. you know, we have a defense budget of a trillion dollars a year. what are we doing with that if it isn't to wipe out threats in the nuclear age? it could really be the end of our country.

>> host: this is a tweet from mpili or something like that. how much did carl bernstein's parents' communist background contribute to his anti-nixon animus? >> you know, i don't believe that bernstein or woodward had an animus like that. they were just on to a very good story, and they loved it, and they put up with tremendous threats and abuse. they were in fear a lot of times that they were being followed. the attorney general, mitchell threatened katherine graham that her tape would wind up somewhere. and in addition to that, i don't think we all mirror our parents' political views so i don't think the family is relevant. those two reporters were up until midnight night after night

knocking on or -- knocking on doors. now there's sort of a counternarrative you see in some right-wing circles that they really didn't uncover watergate, that they were just political people going after nixon. that's, you know, i was there. i was there every single day. i was there every night when they were doing their work and i admire what they did because really richard nixon, i think, might well have disbanded our entire system, our constitution if he had been allowed to proceed, to pursue what he wanted to do which was to cover up watergate, to pay off people. it was a horrible time in our history. >> host: judith roberts, e-mail. why don't women work for the secret service? >> guest: well, that's not true. you know, about 10-15% of the agents are women ask they certainly try to recruit women,

they try to recruit minorities, so that's that's one knock that i would not ascribe to the secret service. >> host: you do have a story, though, in the first family detail about a woman, a female supervisor who is out of shape and couldn't protect the president if she had to. >> guest: yeah. this applies to men and women. the secret service has these physical fitness requirements and firearms requirements, and yet they dishonestly ask agent ises to fill out -- agents to fill out their own test scores, so of course they all pass or the same with firearms qualification. it's outrageous. and just to have dishonesty like that in a law enforcement agency is outrageous. one other thing that the secret service will do is they'll put on these scenarios at a training center in laurel which as i mentioned, i visited and they will have congressmen out there to impress them. and they'll claim that these

scenarios are spontaneous, the agents, you know found the explosives, they didn't know where they were. in fact those scenarios in the case of the congressmen are rehearsed beforehand. so the answers are essentially, given to the agents. again, dishonest. i mean, how can you expect an agency to perform its functions at all properly if this dishonesty is actually condoned? >> host: what's the relationship between the secret service, the cia, the fbi? >> guest: the cia develops intelligence overseas the fbi develops intelligence within the u.s. as well as going after criminals who violate federal laws whether it's espionage, mafia, organized crime terrorism. and the secret service protects our leaders, protects some 47 individuals, also visiting heads of state also when the pope

visits, they will protect them, and they also do investigations into financial crimes. atm fraud phishing, they've been expanding their jurisdiction. and in that area they're very good. they're very highly respected when it comes to those investigations. >> host: do they get along? >> guest: the secret service tends -- >> host: cooperate, i should say. >> guest: yeah. secret service is territorial. the four-person panel that is appointed by the homeland security secretary, jeh johnson, to look into secret service reforms found -- it was not in the report, it was in a section that i was told about that was not made public -- that, in fact the secret service is not only insular, but does not cooperate well with the be fbi. so that's another problem. and you can imagine why. you see this arrogance, you see

this willingness to issue lies about gonzalez's penetration of the white house. why would they want to cooperate with another agency that might second guess what they're doing? >> host: greg is in batavia, illinois. hi greg. >> caller: getting back to hillary and her abusive language and actions against other agents, you know i'm much more concerned about her treatment of the american public, especially with this e-mail scandal. you know she deliberately destroyed evidence in the benghazi attack then she has the gal when it was discovered -- gall when it was discovered that this was on a private server to say it was guarded by secret service agents. is this hacking to require secret service protection? i mean she takes the more than public for a bunch of dumb -- american public for a bunch of dumb, you know morons to say something like that.

i guess that really offends me the most about. by the way, i think my best secret agent is mitch iran, but anyway -- >> host: who's mitch rapp? >> guest: he's a fictional character in -- >> caller: he's a fictional character in flynn's novel, you know? >> host: all right, thank you. >> guest: yeah. that's the central message of my secret service books, and that is the importance of character and choosing a candidate to b president. you know? look at president johnson. he, according to one agent, if john pson were not -- johnson were not president, he would be in a mental hospital. for example he would hold press conferences at his ranch in texas, and in front of male and female reporters urinate in front of them. he would sit on the toilet and defecate in front of aides.

one time he was going when he was vice president from the capitol to the white house, secret service was driving him. it was about 5:00. it was rush hour. he was late for an appointment with jfk, and so he said drive on the sidewalk, drive up on the sidewalk, get there faster: and of course, the agent said, no, i'm not going to do it. johnson took a newspaper, hit him on the head and said "you're fired." he was not fired and this was the sort of thing that went on ever single day. yet we entrusted this guy to prosecute the vietnam war which was full of lies as to it effectiveness. that's how character applies with policies. you saw that very well with one of my favorite books which is by david mccullough on truman. the fact that truman was such a

forthright guy a bold guy, called it like it is and at the same time was able to take action decisively as president to stop world war ii by bombing japan, to create a whole structure for dealing with the cold war and containing the soviet union. this is so basic that, of course, we should look at character. and yet, again, we, when we are engaged in elections when the media talks about who's ahead, who's behind, character is pretty much ignored. another example with hillary is there was this discussion when her book came out last june is she disconnected from real people because she's well? well, that's a ridiculous proposition to begin with, you know? is bill gates disconnected from people because he's wealthy? was andrew carnegie disconnected from people, didn't care about people because he was wealthy in of course not. it's a non sequitur. but what is important is how she

actually treats people, and that is that she treats them like dirt. >> host: ron kessler's our guest this month on "in depth." we're about halfway through the program, and as we like to do, we always ask the author in advance what his or her influences are, some of the books they're reading, etc. we want to show you that now as we continue our live program. ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪the near future on book -- in the near future on booktv. >> host: and we are back with our author, ron kiss already. mr. kessler, one of the books that you listed -- and, of course, i've lost my sheet now that i brought that a up -- "all the president's men was one" that -- men," was one and we've talked about your former coworkers, bernstein and woodward, but another one of your influences that i wanted to

ask you about itch colluded -- included joe aboody, the owner of the el morocco. >> guest: that was a lebanese restaurant in worcester mass, where i went to clark university, and after editing the school paper -- and, by the way, i spent almost all my time on the school paper rather than going to classes -- way past midnight i would go to the el morocco and get a sandwich, stuffed cabbage or grape leaves and i became friends with the co-owner. and he when he learned that i was a scholar, took an interest in me and started sort of promoting me, introducing me to the first journalist i'd ever met, a columnist on the worcester telegram. and it was such a thrill to meet a real professional journalist. about that time i'd done the story in the scarlet on the discrimination against blacks in rental housing, almost half said

they would not rent to blacks, and that give me a little more prominence. but, you know, back then i i had no idea what i was going to do, whether i would ever be a success in life and joe would introduce me to these people and really made a huge difference to me that he would believe in me that he took an interest in me. and, of course, later i went back to el morocco with my two kids, my son and my daughter, greg kessler is an artist in new york, does shows there and teaches art. my daughter, rachel kessler, who is in public relations she has her own independent business, gets hits for ceos on tv. my stepson was not there, but he is a guitarist in fred rick, maryland -- frederick maryland, and performs there. and i was able to very proudly tell them the story of joe

aboody, and when he died in 2001, i cried. i had not realized how important he was in my life until then and i wrote to his sister grace, about what a wonderful heart he had. >> host: two books that you are currently reading one by peter baker of "the new york times," and leon panetta. what do you think of those two books? >> guest: well, panetta i haven't -- i'm just starting. but with the peter baker book, it's absolutely the definitive, authoritative work on the bush administration. it's totally fair, totally factual, and, you know, it's very unfortunate that bush did not consent to an interview. he mistrusted someone from "the new york times", but he should not have because baker, you know, i think performed a great public service by telling the truth about the administration. both the problems as well as the successes. >> host: reports that the obama administration has been one of the most secretive or off-camera

administrations. >> guest: you know, in some ways i admire what they're doing because i thought that the bush people, you know, could have done a better job of manipulating the press. you know i've covered beats as a reporter, and i know what it's all about. or and it's about, you know, trading favors and access and that sort of thing. and colorly the obama people -- clearly, the obama people do give access to the people that they favor, and they find people on their side who are telling them. they're probably smart. that doesn't mean they should cover up things or, you know, prevent disclosure of material in the freedom of information act. but i don't really get too upset about that. >> host: from "inside the cia," the cia for most of its existence has treated the

american press as an add adversary a target that was to be manipulated at times but never confided in, nor trusted. >> guest: way back in the old days when richard helms was director, they had a so-called pr guy, and he told me his job was just to say no comment and that was the extent of his job. things have changed. they have wised up. as i mentioned, they let me interview them about the enhanced interrogation as well as a broad range of other issues within the cia. but, of course, they're still secretive, as they should be, about many operations. you know very frequently people the press especially just assumes that we know everything and they're not doing anything, and in most cases the cia is much more successful and knows much more than is publicly

known. >> host: "inside congress" came out in 1999. this is a quote by raymond carson former capitol police lieutenant. house speaker carl albert was always drunk. >> guest: well, in those days, almost everyone was drunk including the reporters at washington post. we would go out and have bloodily marys -- bloody marys for lunch which is how i met my wife pam. i don't think i had bloody maryss, she did, but i would have something else. maybe whiskey sours. that was par for the course. but, no albert was, you know, falling down drunk. and, of course, that was all covered up. you know, the fact that johnson would urinate in front of reporters was never reported. certainly jfk's affairs were never reported. the first time the press actually reported anything of that sort was when gary hart was running for president, and "the new york times" revealed that he

was having this affair with donna rice. i reveal in my secret service book "the first family detail," that that was just the tip of the iceberg. warren beatty, hart's friend, arranged to have these gorgeous starlets show up at beatty's home. hart would be there, beatty would not be there. these starlets would jump in the hot tub with beatty outside, take off their tops and their bottoms and stay overnight, and the secret service agents would just be amazed. there's a 10 there's a 9 going by. so that was the real story on gary hart. >> host: gotta a tell you "inside congress" leads like a jekyll and suzanne novel. lot of sex, money, drugs. >> guest: well, one theme in the "inside congress" book is the double standard, the arrogance of members of congress who, for example, with ted kennedy would

drive drunk. a police officer would stop that person and, of course then never arrest them. in fact, they have a term to this day could unarresting meaning they arrested the person then they realized the person was a member of congress. they unarrest them meaning hay just wipe it out they don't make a report. thatthat is going on to this day. terrible, terrible double standard. these lawmakers are so powerful and so arrogant in many cases and when it comes to their own personal comfort they really dictate exactly what goes on is on capitol hill. >> host: ron kessler, what book are you working on currently? >> guest: i have to keep that a secret. no, i wish i knew. i don't have a current subject. it takes a while, especially in this internet age, you know? you simply have got to come up with something that will really be revelatory because there's so much information out there. i do think i'm a little perverse

because i love a challenge, i love a secret subject. if it's too easy, i don't want to do it. so i am looking at different summits. i'm also on -- subjectings. i'm also updating the "first family detail" book with an epilogue to the paper barak version along with an update going into all these recent developments and revealing some new information. >> host: do youly write at home? >> guest: i write at home. i have desktop my wife has her desktop. we go out to lunch together and when i'm writing i will sometimes -- i'll frequently wake up at five in the morning four in the morning. i just get very intense. i do that after i do the reporting, and then i just have a ball. i love the reporting, i love the writing, i love the promotion. i just love writing bookings. >> host: where you write -- john grisham, we talked to him and he said that he writes on a

computer but it's not connected in any way to the internet. >> guest: well, you know, an fbi agent who was in charge of a lot of this told me there's only one way to prevent being hacked, and that is to not use the internet so i think john grisham knows what he's doing. but i do use the internet, you know to get basic facts. it's certainly much easier than in the old days. so i appreciate that. i appreciate computers. i actually had the first ibm pc back in 1985, and it's helped me tremendously. >> host: 202 is the area coarksd 748-8200 in the east and central time zones 748-8201 for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones. we're talking with author and investigate i reporter ron kessler. you can also contact us via social media booktv@c-span.org is our e-mail address, @booktv if you want to make a comment on twitter, and finally a comment on our facebook page,

facebook.com/booktv. peter is calling in from burris, louisiana. huh, peter. >> caller: hello, sir. thank you, mr. kessler. i appreciate your audacity and your honesty. i have a challenge for you. how about investigating george soros and his corrupting influence on the democrats? and my question for you is did -- [inaudible] establish the wall between the cia and the fbi in order to protect clinton from the adverse investigations? flush thank you very much. >> guest: yeah, there are so many possible subjects out there, and, in fact almost everyone thinks that they have a book in them. but really is anybody going to buy a book on george soros? i don't think so. when it comes to the other issue of -- what about clinton? >> host: jamie goralik? >> guest: oh, yeah. the so-called wall was developed

by a low-ranking justice department official who had the bright idea that, you know you couldn't share information that was developed through intelligence sources versus information that might be used in a prosecution. each though there -- even though there had been 76 prosecutions involving this kind of information before under john martin 75 of which resulted in convictions, many of which were upheld on appeal. so there was no question about the legality of doing that. but somehow he developed this theory i actually interviewed him, i asked about the fact that previous cases had been upheld on appeal, he said he wasn't aware of that. well jamie goralik and janet reno signed off on that memo and the result was the whole law enforcement community on the federal level was tied up in knots. they couldn't share information, it was nuts. and that also tells you

something that's rather embarrassing about those agencies and those individuals. why didn't those people, brave fbi agents who would risk their lives to arrest someone why didn't they speak up? why didn't they challenge that? they didn't. one of the few who did was art cummings who was over counterterrorism and eventually over counterintelligence as well, and he did actually flout those rules and would not follow them. very, very rare that you find someone like that in the bureaucracy who will take a chance on his job or her job by challenging the conventional wisdom. >> host: wade is in florence, south carolina. hi wade, you're on booktv. >> caller: hi. i really want to thank c-span for shining a flashlight on the dark kit that is our federal government. dark pit. we need to know what our little devils are up to and i appreciate y'all shining a light on it.

and especially if we can't do much about it like in the case of who seems to be above -- in the case of hillary clinton who seems to be above the law. but i'd like to ask mr. can kessler -- and, by the way thank you, mr. kessler for your appearance. i've reallien joyed listening to you. what do you believe is the most serious threat to our way of life and our freedom in the united states? today? >> guest: well, the most serious threat, as i mentioned was -- or is -- the possibility of a weapons of mass destruction attack on our country as well as an electromagnetic pulse of emp attack. with the emp attack, a country like iran could detonate a nuclear device 20 miles up in the atmosphere which would fry our electronics and we would have millions of people who die of starvation because everything from our cars to our

refrigerators would be inoperable. and these are things that, you know, are just so devastating that people don't want to think about it they're in denial but it would not be that difficult and that is a real threat. and that's why, you know, i think we all have some sense that we're on the verge of possible destruction these days, and that that's really how it could happen. >> host: e-mail woodbridge virginia. mr. kessler spoke of president bush's unheralded responses to 9/11 which i have not heard of before but deserve credit. however, this does not excuse his irresponsible culpability in the war with iraq. >> guest: you know from my book "the terrorist watch," i interviewed an fbi agent by the name of george piro. he was born in, i think baghdad. he spoke -- >> host: beirut. >> guest: beirut, thank you. he's still with the fbi. and after saddam was captured

he was assigned to try to interview saddam. and he did that to a remarkable degree. he spent nine months with saddam and got quality admissions out of him. and one of them -- and by the way, he manipulated saddam with baby wipes. saddam loved baby wipes so he would give him more baby wipes if he behaved himself. and they developed a real rapport. in fact, when they finally parted and saddam was about to be hung saddam teared up because they were parting. and one thing that saddam admitted is that he purposely manipulated world opinion to make enemies, but particularly iran believed he had weapons of mass destruction can. he would, for example, not let weapons inspectors into certain palaces, he would have all these other schemes to make it appear that he did have weapons of mass destruction can. so that's -- and on top of that,

he admitted that he was planning on developing a nuclear war, nuclear capability within about a year when he thought that sanctions would be lifted because he was paying off u.n. inspectors or, and then he could develop his own little nuclear weapon. so there were plenty of reasons why the cia and all orr intelligence agencies -- all other intelligence agencies got that wrong. but that was the belief, and you know if faced with that same kind of information, would do the same thing. we simply cannot take a chance in this day and age that we're going to be wiped out by weapons of mass destruction. >> host: and here's the chapter where you talk about george piro saddam's friend it's entitled. did you see judith miller's piece yesterday in "the wall street journal"? she's got a new book coming out -- >> guest: yeah, i heard about it. >> host: basically saying that colin powell did not lie president bush did not lie?

>> guest: well, that shouldn't be, you know, such a surprise because, obviously, they've been saying that. and as i've said, all intelligence agencies, you know the british, the israelis, they all thought that, of course, saddam had weapons of mass destruction. you know, and to say that they lied why? i mean no one has ever figured out why. it's just this conspiracy theory that woodward and bernstein came up with this conflation of different people to call deep throat. i don't know why. why would they want to go into iraq? some conspiracy theory that they just loved the idea of going into iraq. no, that was not until after 9/11 that we went into iraq. and based on that information and, you know obviously the war was not carried out properly at various points, there was not enough thought given to how things would work out after

saddam was toppled. so there were many mistakes. but, certainly, the intention of the bush people was to keep us safe. >> host: kent in koppel, texas. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> caller: i want to thank c-span for bringing light on these issues and having interesting people come how on. i want to take issue with a lot of what mr. kessler has said -- [inaudible] >> caller: good and honest person. yeah. but just very naive, to sum it up in one word. you know, to paint hillary with a brush of being mean and treating people like dirt, she was under a lot of pressure through center parts of her life. and, you you know, she probably budget that way the first -- wasn't that way the first 50 years of her life and she's probably not that way today.

>> guest: if that's what she does when she's under pressure, i would hate to see what she does when she's president. >> caller: really neat to read about. the sales of his book are obviously what he's about. why didn't he report are about those more when he was a reporter, you know? >> host: all right kent, let's get a response. >> guest: do you make a salary by any chance? >> host: kent is now gone. sorry. >> guest: okay. well, i assume that he makes a salary. most of us do make money one way or another, and that's how i make books -- make money by selling books. whether it's called royalty or whether it's called salary, we want to make money we want to do well, we want to get promotions, we want to sell so there's anything -- this is sort of a red herring when people say, well he just wants to sell books. the question is are the books credible do they hold up, and i would say they do. so that's my main response to that. >> host: what's the goal with

your writing? what's the goal with your books? shine a light? >> guest: um, shine a light on important subjects. even "palm beach" is an important subject because it's a very closed society, it's the richest place in the world. to see what goes on when billionaires are able to be in this playpen, to see the schemes, the scams, to see the anti-semitism which still exists within the old guard through clubs -- few clubs still prevent jews or certainly blacks from being members and to see just what the other half lives like i think is certainly interesting. it's certainly fun for me. i love being able to just ask people questions to go into

different worlds that i otherwise would not have any access to. i like to go into new subjects you know? if i've already done a book on palm beach i'm not going to do a book on beverly hills, that would be a step down. so that's why the hardest part of my job is coming up with the right subject for the next book. if anybody has any ideas i'm always looking. >> host: ron kessler if you can't get a source on the record or a secondary source will you not report something that you believe to be true? >> guest: absolutely. you know, many many times i've not reported information that i've been given even about hillary, for example. and, you know it's, by the way, important to me that the books be truthful, honest, accurate and that's why i'm very careful about the information that i provide. >> host: dr. few man chew tweets in, now that they've been revealed, are the secret prisons in europe still being used?

>> guest: i don't believe those so-called secret prisons are being used in europe anymore. certainly not at present. >> host: hugh, ashland virginia please go ahead with your question or comment for ron kessler. >> guest: you're triggering a lot of wonderful memories and is i've had a pretty bizarre life. i just left a voicemail for rachel so you can connect with me for the next few books at least. i'm going to throw out a couple of reporters that were probably when you fist came to washington -- when you fist came to the washington postif you knew jonathan kwitny. he did an article based on information that i gave to him that eventually triggered the eventual resignation of jim wright from speaker of the house in shame. i was interviewed after "the wall street journal" article broke by dave montgomery who was a fort worth star bureau chief

in -- >> host: so, hugh, tell you what, why don't you tell us why you're listing these things and what your question is. >> caller: just to give a little bit of information that can be looked at, because mr. kessler seems to be an old school type of reporter but reports the truth. and along the lines of the hillary clinton, this is on youtube. google wade mcgovern who was cia and did the presidential briefings for seven presidential administrations. he was at a hillary speech he stood up and turned his back on her, and he was beat up by the people in security there, and he won a lawsuit against it. ..

>> host: the issue of truthfulness and information that i may not have used.. recently fox radio wanted to interview me about a piece that they were preparing about the fact that vice president biden collects rent from the secret service and. >> host: you report this. >> guest: actually i did not. because i do not think it was an issue. and the reporter, a very good reporter, very excited about the legitimate action by the secret service, this college had been

written out to other people, why should it be penalized, and you express that view ensure enough he did. and over the weekend that is all i tried to be honest about these individuals and if they are in the right, i believe they are on the right, that is what i would say. >> william north carolina. >> caller: i just want to bring attention to the author, the difference between the cia and fbi. i am a retired police officer and 60 years ago, never trust the fbi. i saw cases, cannot trust them. then i got into engineers in

this country, i contacted an engineer from russia, said i will meet you in the country and he was a head engineer in a nuclear submarine. >> guest: all hold bunch of engineers like this, the visas down. and really helpful so i contacted the cia office in detroit, michigan but wasn't stupid. and in my binoculars i had seen that. the next guy got out.

the first thing, we don't need any information on a nuclear submarine, we got all we want. we would like to bring these engineers to do industrial counterespionage. i said we are not going to do that because i know how the russians treat anybody who comes into this country to go back, they are a spy. the first engineer i tried to bring into this country was de into this country to go back, they are a spy. the first engineer i tried to bring into this country was denied a visa by the state department. that engineer i tried to get in was going to be an absolute gold mine for the cia. >> we are going to leave it there. that ties in to a couple of your earlier books, despite in the russian club and i talk about how all rage asleep they treated a defector to the cia and all

kinds of secrets and yet the cia had this attitude defectors are inherently treasonous and can't be trusted and they treated him like that and sure enough because of that he believes was his mistress, which acted, decided to defect to the soviet union and the soviets even though they knew he had defected, otherwise it would show they were stupid for trusting him. that is how the cia would be really screwed up. this was during the cold war. it was a little scary. the kgb would look for bugs in aty ht toel rurim and he would lie about almost everything when i

interviewed him but it was an interesting s, isode. >> host: an e-mail from brian. ten years ago i apply for special agent john that the secret service. i was successful through several steps until the polygierph after which they rejected me and left me with a 4 impression of polygraph which i cont tider to be thoroasohly pseudo woientific. i now work in law enforcement elsewhere in the federal government. do you have an opinion on the use for overreliance of af secce.eyh exams and agen mi? >> guest: i believe polygraphs are very useful. as a deterrent to the polvicieri w you may nt to engage in improper behavior, you may not apply, second sec in many cases when confronted with the fact that someone has failed polygraph individuals will confess and that led to many people going to jail are people being rejected by the agency's.g to jail or people

being rejected by these agencies. obviously it's not perfect. the kgb has interesting ways for instructing people, for example one individual became the more he was instructed on how to evade and so it's not always infallible. but going back to the robert hanssen case, the fbi agent who was a i presented the real story of how he was caught in my book the secrets of the fbi and reveals that the fbi director refused to approve a proposal by his deputy that counterintelligence agents be polygraph. they continued spying for another seven years. if they approved that it would

have stopped, he would have been afraid of being caught by the polygraph. for seven years, was able to concentrate on where they were killed. polygraph is somehow -- >> what is the relationship between the fbi, cia secret service and congress? >> the fbi has been very smart about congress. he would spend a lot of time with members of congress behind-the-scenes, was very open and honest and has done a tremendous and special access for members of congress, it has not resulted in more money because secret service has not

asked for more money, it has been back and forth, casey would lie to congress the result was congress was not happy with a more supportive of him, newt gingrich, would provide more money, washington is all about relationships. that can be a failure. >> grade was in san mcphail, calif.. hi, greg. >> thank you for wonderful program and i appreciate you allowing me to participate. i thank our guest, ronald kessler. >> please go ahead. >> my question regarding the administration of herbert walker bush, going on in the white house where he had given carte

blanche for keys to the white house to the log cabin republicans and who were picking up young boys, underage boys and bringing them to the white house during that era. i wonder if ronald kessler could shed a little light on that if he would? >> where are you sourcing this from? >> this is from some material i read. never reached the papers as most of these things don't. usually is anti-democratic or kind of events that reached more so than the other side of the aisle. i was curious whether or not he would respond to this question? >> in most cases what i call a conspiracy theory you can say could this be going on and never hit the press when so many people are involved? the jfk assassination if in fact there were a plot by the soviets don't you think by now

we would have some defectors who want to make a million dollars to sell a book on the real story? that is all you need to know about some of these conspiracy theories. of course they could not be kept secret the same way whether the cia was involved in killing kennedy. to you think hundreds of cia people would keep it quiet or dozens to this day? the case of this claim is one way to approach it and simply not true. i reject the implied bigotry that there is something wrong with republicans who are gay who are republican. >> had you heard that story? >> never heard that story but i am sure i will hear thousands of similar stories in my future career especially -- i don't understand why people can't be more skeptical about some of

these stories. for example the claim about obama being born in kenya? aside from the birth certificate which is a big bogus issue, the fact is newspaper articles appeared at the time in the hawaiian newspapers announcing his birth. as my wife pam pointed out unless obama's parents when he was born in kenya decided he was going to be president and therefore put this bonus announcement in the hawaii newspapers, the whole thing is a can of worms and not true. again something that should be obvious to people but apparently is not. >> how many presidents of the interviewed? >> only george bush. i tend to like to go behind-the-scenes, get the real story, presidents are not going to say very much. i love to get what i think is

the real story. covering the white house is a thankless job come asking questions of the press secretary, trying to query him with various tricky questions. what would and bernstein would never have had watergate develop unless -- if they had been covering the white house. the fact is the national staff at the washington post thought the whole thing was baloney, trying to undercut what would and bernstein, they were on the metropolitan staff. they were covering police headquarters and local stories, this was a big thrill for them that is a major reason why the post was able to reveal these stories because they were not on the national staff and were courageous. >> what you think the health of investigative reporting is

today? >> investigative reporting is on the lam. the washington post has done a very good job, doing very good stories on the secret service scandals and on the other hand you have this impetus to put stories on the internet without any checking or investigation. so it is a mixed bag. >> martha, you are on with dr. ronald kessler. >> fbi director james coney put forth a strategy of integration of his agents and analystss. he noted the strategy my question is how feasible is the strategy when agencies are known to not collaborate with each other? >> if there's a problem you have to work at it. there has been an effort to give

analysts more status. more training for which it never been done before, the training facility in, co and progressively both directors have been pushing for more collaboration between analysts and agents but there is still a pecking order where agents are the top of the herd so there's still work to be done? >> ronald kessler, ronaldkessler.com is his website. can people contact you by those two vehicles? >> preferably on the web site, that is the best way. i am not a big twitter aficionado, but i should learn. >> next up philip in california hi, philip? >> yes.

my statement and question is i am a veteran talking about the veterans administration. that is one of the biggest scandals in the united states today. i love veteran and former employee of a hospital there. i was a whistle-blower on the way they treat hispanics and that covered up their tactics. i still go to the a as a veteran receiving treatment but employees tell me what is going on there. people who die don't have to die. they're saving money at the expense of veterans where most the indigent, old, had their own problems and make uncomfortable. this is the biggest scandal in the united states today. a lot of people don't realize even in nazi germany hitler also eliminated the world war i

veterans. and this is happening now for economic reasons and the veterans administration and i go there twice a week and there is an attitude of indifference and unless you have someone there to advocate for you outside it is the worst thing in the united states today. >> i agree. this brings up the question of how scandals like that can occur and is a mystery. how could people be so callous? how could they cover up in order to delay treatment that results in death same with the secret service and the culture described their. how can they cut forward? how can they relax when the president of the united states's life is at stake and yet it

continues. the biggest challenge when it comes to someone who is in charge of an agency like that where you don't have a profit motive and they won't go bankrupt if they don't do well, just going to keep on with this culture and that is why in the case of the secret service you need someone who is outside the agency who will understand the culture and the current director does because he is from that culture but at the same time in recent hearings he has refused to acknowledge what that culture is. he has talked about alcoholism as a problem because of stress, that is not the problem. we have the prostitution scandal and one or two leather incidents but most agents have no time to engage in that sort of thing.

the culture is the management and that includes mr. clancy who refuses to acknowledge what the real problems are. >> randall weatherspoon e-mail. i agree with not publishing secret techniques. one of the worst is the story about osama bin laden using cellphones etc. yet you default so much information this morning regarding the techniques of planting bugs and the description of their size etc.. why did you do the same thing? >> in the case of bugging devices there's nothing anybody can do. i think everyone understands the fbi could in fact bug them but the fbi is those law and about how they'd do it that no matter what they read in my book no one will never be able to evade being bugged or wiretap to. in the case of the secret service and all this laxness that i reveal the secret service could change overnight. it could stop the laxness in the corner cutting, they could say

don't let anybody into an event without screening. if you do you are fired. mr. clancy could say that today and it would stop and the president's life would be -- would not be in jeopardy and that is why i feel safe revealing this corner cutting because it is something that can be changed. >> feel any says i would be interested in the expenditures of former presidents and vice presidents, mr. kessler makes an important point but fails to really report the story. >> the expenditures for the president is public. it is hundreds of millions of dollars but i think if you have of presidents like jimmy carter or george stubbier bush or let's say laura bush taken hostage by isis we would be in big trouble.

when you compare the budget of the secret service which is $1.9 billion is now projected a year with just -- ridiculous. we need to prevent another assassination. that nullifies democracy. i was alive and in college when jfk was assassinated. i cried for days. was such a blow to everybody. when it comes to money it should not be a factor. the secret service will not even spend money to have detectives that detect gunshots at the white house, something that the metropolitan police in washington, they won't spend money to use the latest techniques for detecting

intrusions or w n d that are available from the national laboratories. everywhere you look in the secret service is a >> from "in the president's secret service: behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect" as a result of the reagan incident the secret service began using magnetometers to screen crowds at events, not before. >> before the shooting of reagan the secret service use magnetometers at the white house to gain entrance but not an events to screen visitors or spectators but at the same time as i mentioned the real reason reagan was shot was his own political staff overruled, shouldn't have the authority to overrule the secret service to let people within 15 feet of reagan as he came out that is why hinckley was able to shoot him. and the secret service covered up, tried to blame the fbi

covered up what really happened. it was reagan's and staff that caused that shooting. >> a quote from a current agent. the service, you would think, would be on the leading edge when it comes to weapons and they're just not. >> they are not. they are not up to date on the latest weapons the amtrak police have more powerful weapons. it is all part of the corner cutting we make do with less attitude. when the director said soldiers in iraq have to sleep on the floor, so if we have agents working tremendous hours that is not so bad. imagine comparing the secret service agent who could make five times more money in the private sector with a young soldier in iraq, that shows you

the lack of management cycle that you see in the secret service today. >> the secret service, the secret service found richard nixon and his family to be the strangest protected. >> an agent was watching nixon watch tv when he left the white house, in california and nixon was feeding dog biscuits to his dog and nixon took one of the biscuits looked at it and ate it. this is not normal behavior. he just didn't have a clue about how to do the normal things the rest of us do and that is just one story out of many about nixon. >> next call from steven in decatur, illinois. you are on it with ronald

kessler. >> caller: thank you from letting me speak and think a good writer for being part of looking into what our government does and the individuals that have power. i think the greatest -- i would like his comments the greatest fear for me for our public is the gotcha government and the truth is dependent on who has got it and how they want to use it, partisan politics putting aside the needs of the nation. mr. nixon, you just talked about mr. nixon he was a pretty effective president in so many ways except they didn't trust the media, he wanted to control it he got involved in doing something that probably didn't make a difference in his election that he didn't trust the democratic process enough and it got him into a lot of trouble, trying to cover it up.

another thing on iraq, everybody around me was become excited about invading iraq. i got from this far distant place that there was some evidence of a complete liar some evidence whether he had anything immediate that caused us to invade iraq, and a lot of people died on the assumption that a liar had weapons that even i knew were questionable at the least. and i heard a guy talking about politics, domestic politics in foreign affairs. the american people is ready to keep somebody's but and iraq was there to get there buts kicked and a lot of people died the box -- pandora's box is open and hasn't been closed. >> bendixen description is a

good description of nixon, mistrustful that sort of thing that goes back to character. if we don't look at character when we choose a president we are in for trouble and that is one good example. people often ask me do i ever get threatened or do i ever fear for my life? i do get e-mails that are very nasty sometimes from former agents with swearwords which is probably this cover-up culture. if you expose the truth, there will be a retaliatory attitudes. when i was interviewing a mole in the cia who was later arrested by the fbi, they went to war g's and i interviewed carlin and his wife, with my wife pam at one point karl

started asking my wife have about something, he knew that pam covered art for the washington post and she said she was 5 foot 6 and didn't want to talk to anybody, answering questions very much and i could tell he was getting very suspicious. this was during the cold war and i laid out where his stories appear in the washington post so he could look the mother and later as we were partying at the airport, karl admitted that he thought that ham was an fbi agent and i was her shell, that was his conclusion about this whole episode. >> host: the c i a at war you discuss george tenet. >> guest: i think he did a great

job. he was lying about wm d he knew how to rally and improve morale. >> host: he was not your typical losty cia director. >> guest: he was proud to be greek. he would go to a greek restaurant every day for lunch. that was a big thing with george tenet. he was a very real person. >> host: would you think of the new system where there is a director the cia, not head of the intelligence team? >> guest: i don't think much of

this system. just another layer of bureaucracy. more coordination among the agencies, that could have been done by the cia director with staff and perhaps additional legislation. i just don't see that it added anything. in the secrets of the fbi, commons who is in charge of counterintelligence and counterterrorism, we are going to -- we have all these boring meetings, it doesn't help the college whatsoever. >> host: choice is in st. petersburg, fla.. >> caller: i wonder if you are familiar with the case in sarasota, bob greene, who is former governor of florida and senator from florida who was on the 9/11 commission and never

passed on it. the case in sarasota, with the saudi arabian family in a gated community six miles from the air force where the people that ran into the twin towers in new york got their lessons. and these people were -- one of the people that went into the skating community, they took full license of these people and one of the people whose license they got along to mohammed hadi ata and he is one of the men who flew the plane. wikipedia >> guest: that story is not true. there was an arrest of a saudi in sarasota but he was not connected with the royal family and in fact even though osama bin laden and others involved in

9/11 were from saudi arabia, saudi arabia actually expelled osama bin laden and others took away their assets, didn't want anything to do with them. we need to keep in mind who is our friend and who is our enemy. in the case of saudi arabia they are a friend. >> host: senator bob graham has called for the full disclosure of the 9/11 report, hasn't he? >> guest: i have seen him critical of a lot of things and as far as i know almost everything from the 9/11 commission, material has been disclosed publicly. there has been an issue about saudi arabia. i believe that is some sensitive stuff that has nothing to do with them being involved in 9/11. so the 9/11 commission did a very good job pinpointing what the problems were. >> the last several years, the

size of national security and what is being kept secret from the american public? >> a series of articles in the washington post, the view of the intelligence expansion. many employees and agencies, was there any abuse that they fail given we have not had the terrorist attacks since 9/11? they never said that. those stories never said that. would you see in the press so many times that you don't see in washington post. i don't understand how these people live with themselves writing these stories. not to mention the fact that a

paper like the post today that is so critical that is more successful. people start over time recognizing you contrast the washington post, maybe we should subscribe. they are going downhill, and ideological. >> host: next call from robert in cape coral, fla.. you are on with ronald kessler. >> guest: thanks to c-span. -- nice to get topics delivered. i was in college during the nixon administration and very unaware perhaps the first attack on the constitution. i should like to comment on that for a little bit and then come back to the present where i hear obama being called the worst

attack on the constitution we ever had. >> guest: my reference to the constitution, retired special prosecutor, over him but a special prosecutor, he instructed money in order to cover up what nixon didn't want so all these activities, not to mention an actual break-in at democratic headquarters. all these things made it very clear to me and i was in the center of it that nixon's next step could be to disband the constitution and become a desperate. and as for obama i don't think it is that clear that his

executive orders are illegal on the one hand he is doing a good job killing terrorists overseas with drones he won't referred to radical islamic terrorism, what could be more obvious the vast majority of muslims are peaceful, many of them are friends who are admirable people land on the other hand the effects within that religion that claims to be muslim and they are terrorists, serial killers. i don't see the problem in that way, anyone can understand it. it does not need to bigotry against muslims.

to the contrary it makes it very clear we should respect muslims and on the other hand treat terrorists like terrorists. >> 20 minutes left with ronald kessler on "in depth". if you can't get through on phone lines try our social media addresses. heidi, freeporche maine. >> caller: i am a democrat and i have questions about hillary in regard, questions about hillary in regard to her e-mail's that came from c-span, i am concerned with her white water issue and also i met her at the democratic convention in maine in 1994. she was very welcoming when we match someone with the wheelchair got to talk to her and she was very interested in the paper that i wrote, and when i moved to new york city i was

her constituents and didn't expect, i didn't expect her to remember me but i did have an appointment with her aid and the office did not let me in to see her and she happened to be there and walked by me and i tried to get up and talk to her and it seemed very close to constituents. i am middle-class and i am concerned about how somebody in the lower class would be treated and concerned about her transparency as a precedent in terms of the e-mail and i saw how in the c-span show with the judicial watch, asking many legal questions ready for a separate story not on c-span and

reporter asked questions about how the secret service would keep a server out of the server. can you give more examples of how secret services could keep such a server save and also -- >> host: we are going to leave it there. >> guest: that is the red herring, has nothing to do with servers. they -- of we are talking about the server, they would prevent that but that is not the issue. in the case of keeping government e-mails on her server there could be cyberattacks, some things the secret service would not be involved in whatsoever and how she treats people and maybe ignores people

hillary would actually instruct secret service agents when she was in the white house said they were not supposed to be seen by her. when she was coming down the corridor actually hide, literally hide go behind curtains. that is sick behavior. you can imagine how someone with that kind of personality might react when she gets into the white house where typically presidents become even more arrogant, more disconnected from reality because of all the education. you saw that inland's in johnson. and that is the character we need to keep in mind as opposed to house someone appeared on tv, whether that person reacted well in a debate. those are totally irrelevant to the real issues and the real issues are character and track record. you have to look at the track

record. dia agents are taught in virginia that past behavior is the best predictor of present behavior. that is obvious most of the time but with presidents we ignore those >> host: from "inside congress: the shocking scandals, corruption, and abuse of power behind the scenes on capitol hill," gregory will never forget turning the doorknob to one of lyndon johnson's seven capitol hideaways when lbj was a leader of the senate and he was making his round checking to make sure all offices were locked. they opened a massive door and gas. having sex with carol tyler, a blond curvaceous secretary. there was lbj, i said excuse me he jumped up i took off running because i knew that man's to. ran to the an end of the senate building down the marble

stairway, past the clock, through the rotunda. he was running after me. i ran to the house went to the terrace level to the cheese's office. i just caught lbj on top of carroll, he shouted at the officer on duty, he is threatening to kill me. the officer told him to hide in the locker. those offers were little. i had a gun and flashlight, i could hardly breathe lbj came flying in. i could hear him slam the door. i thought it would break. he said where is that officer? the desk officer said to you talking about? johnson replied that son of a bitch who came in here, i will kill him. eventually johnson tired of the hon, the desk officer extricated the cost from the locker. >> guest: in my book "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents" on revealed johnson was having sex with most of his secretaries and one point lady bird his wife and in the office with the secretary, johnson blew up at the secret service and said you should have

warned me and all of them to install a system so that in the future as lady bird was there they would warn him that she was in the area. this shows the arrogance the hypocrisy and just when you think about it, how could this person never be president? how could this person be in charge of the vietnam war that led to 50,000 or 70,000 deaths? what judgment does that show? these are things that people are in denial about. they put blinders on. they don't look at the real picture. that is one of the messages of my book. >> neil in long beach, calif.. >> sure proud of you and c-span and ronald kessler. he did his show -- i got one question about the assassination

of kennedy. there are a lot of stories. i am not a conspiracy junkie, but they show a lot of proof that lbj was in back of all that. richard helms said lbj was the instigator of all that and knew about it before it happened. you are a good man and we need more and should have you on the show. >> guest: none of that is true. the one commission, the fbi investigation did a thorough job, that oswald was the lone assassin. that is typical of the assassins, they are unstable and commit these actss to get attention. and how many people would have known about that if it were true, it would have come out by now with the real story and made

a few million dollars. >> host: waterville maine. >> caller: thanks for the ability to talk with you people. i have three copies of ron's book. i work in maine, and i who lived in maine and i worked in d.c. 15 weeks a year. the reason i am calling is really quickly sir, i know you have a good program going at the don't want to interrupt anyone else. congress does not represent a cross-section of america. when i talk to washington amid groups or anywhere else in this country, the group's think the same way we all do, we have to come to a conclusion to get something done. one of the major reasons we can't get anything done gerrymandering, we can't get that solved so we can get the right districts and the right states and one of the major

problems is unfortunately the supreme court going along with unlimited contributions to candidates. my question and comment is a around this. it is political cronyism, corruption in a sense that it is not transparent. john boehner says nothing gets done but i am proud of that because at least we had pretty bad legislation. my suggestion is this, half humorously but seriously i would force these lobbyists these politicians wearing a jacket similar to nascar, suit coat if they want. they must have patches on themselves, proportionate to the number of dollars they get donated. of the nra donates half the money the patches bigger. i want to look at a senator and a congressman and have them show me that jacket.

comments about gerrymandering, comments about allowing big money into this political system please. wikipedia >> guest: these are major problems they occur within the democratic party and the republican party. i do think given the fact the supreme court ruled that money is free speech and should not be limited the we should have term limits which at least would bring in new candidates who would not be as people and to certain money interests and i think that would help a lot. that would require members of congress to vote against their own interests so i don't know if that is going to happen but the fact is elections have consequences and make changes. republicans coming in and democrats coming in changes are made and in the end it is

possible to have a fairly effective government. >> host: here is a chapter from "inside congress: the shocking scandals, corruption, and abuse of power behind the scenes on capitol hill" called follow the money. we take the next call from mary ann in san diego. >> caller: hello. i think i have a suggestion for a book. i would like to see a book written on the coos sponsored by the united states but first i remember is batista when i was a child. the reason for them and especial comment on the latest, the ukraine. thank you. >> caller: we have a short-sighted policy in those days where we thought we could overthrow governments for example in iran and look what we have got and it was foolhardy

and the cia was part of that and it was improved by the president and the cia never did anything the president to approve of. that certainly has not borne fruit for us and that is a good example of the problems that existed in those days within the cia. we had the bay of pigs which was ridiculous, where everyone -- everyone knew this vacation was being planned and the cia went ahead with it, hundreds of people lost their lives, just outrageous things. in many ways the country has gotten much better since those days, has gone more accountable certainly has become more focused. the improvement in oversight has made a big difference. certainly in terms of civil

rights we have seen big improvements i was at police headquarters at the boston herald, the other reporters referred to a cheap murder meaning of the victim was black so of course we do a story on that, that is how bad things were in those days and now blacks are often given preference in advancement or acceptance to college because we do want to be more diverse. >> host: of volume 20 books do you have a favorite? >> guest: i love the mall. learning to drink champagne. and remarkable story. and when you have too much, the

recent book, it encompasses the important messages, what people need to know about not to mention exposing this laxness and those stories have not hit the press. my book on joe kennedy's father cut archival research for that, exposed so many myths about him. he was described in the press as a very religious guy who went to church every day. he never went to church according to his mistress. i love coming up with the truth whether it is a small tidbits like that or something like the fbi director, bill clinton and other stories like that. >> host: your first book "the life insurance game," what was

that about? >> guest: it is about how deceptive the life-insurance industry is. if it were regulated by the fcc it could never get away with scams and deceptive practices for example they will tell you universal life? a return on 4% or 5%. they don't tell you that is not an honest percentage disclosure that actually the agent's commission and other expenses are taken out of that 4% so in the end use end up with 1% if you are lucky. for that book i went and visited various life insurance agents and set time interested in life insurance can you tell me about it? and reported what they said. half the time they didn't know what the truth was. it was just outrageous. if the fcc were in charge not the they are perfect either,

they didn't uncover the bernie madoff scam when they should have that would be a big improvement. >> host: susan in brooks, maine. >> caller: this is great. i did want to refer to a question earlier. the person that caller was asking about would have been john p. o'neill who worked in the fbi and was on to osama bin laden for years. was let go and took the job with security and died in the towers. do you refer to him in any of your books? that is one question. my second question is the woman that just called not too long ago about sarasota, there was a nurse in sarasota who was on to the fact that the flyers were staying in florida south of sarasota the night before 9/11 so there is something to that

story and muhamed ata was dating one of these girls. i was with my mother in her presence the day of 9/11 and the fbi did come to visit her so there is something to that story. are you familiar with? >> guest: no. i don't believe it is true. about mr. o'neill, he was hired be respected in charge of counter terrorism in the new york field office and the fbi. elective his own accord for a higher-paying position with the world trade center and he was tragically killed. he didn't have a premonition about the attack. was aware of the danger and the threat but there is no conspiracy aspect to what happened. >> guest: ronald kessler's 20 books beginning in 1985 with

"the life insurance game," "the richest man in the world: the story of adnan khashoggi" 1986 story of adnan khashoggi" 1986, "spy vs. spy: stalking soviet spies in america," the american embassy," "the spy in the russian club: how glenn souther stole america's nuclear war plans and escaped to moscow" a whole series of u.s./russian a whole series of u.s./russian books, books, "escape from the cia: how the cia won and lost the most important kgb spy ever to defect tothe u.s.," tothe u.s.," "inside the cia: revealing the secrets of the world's most powerful spy agency" revealing the secrets of the world's most powerful spy agency" "inside the white house: the hidden lives of the modern presidents and the secrets of the most powerful institution," this season inside palm beach 1999, "the bureau: the secret history of the fbi" came out in 2002 the cia at war "a matter

of character: inside the white house of george w. bush," "laura bush" 2006, "the terrorist watch" inside it is the race to stop the next attack 2007 and ronald kessler's books, "in the president's secret service: behind the scenes with agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect" 2009, the secrets of the fbi and his most recent "the first family detail: secret service agents reveal the hidden lives of the presidents". judge in green castle, indiana. go ahead with your question or comment. >> great program. one question for ronald kessler, going back, getting fought on the presidents back to truman who had the best understanding, the importance of each of the three agencies, took the time to understand them and who had the

best out of those presidents from truman forward, the best mutual respect going both ways. >> host: truman >> guest: truman created the cia. that says something about his understanding. george w. bush was very involved with the cia, appreciative of what they did. george h. w. bush as you know was cia director for the year but never got very involved in the intricacies and was not as involved as you might imagine. you asked about why i wrote the books. another reason is with inside the cia, that is the one book as i understand it that the cia recommends to applicants and new employees even though the book came out years ago. the book on the one hand goes

into their foolishness and plots, lack of understanding of the need to and cover real espionage and malfeasance and told john martin the person i mentioned before will not put up with that and start prosecuting cia officers, but on the other hand it goes into how they really work. it is not like homeland. and that is why i think it is important for new employees to learn these lessons, same with the fbi, to know what was wrong without a lot of misinterpretation to understand very clearly that hoover was not someone to be admired as many

agents did because he did abuse american rights, he did black male members of congress and presidents even though he also did a lot of good things. those are all lessons i hope as i write the books will be inculcated within the management within the employee work force and that has happened. >> host: george in tennessee. you only have 20 seconds. >> caller: a great program. i ask ronald kessler the question of why is it the death of martin luther king, consistent with the evidence of his autopsy i am curious to know if that is not a cover-up too. >> guest: what? >> host: martin luther king is that a cover-up? >> guest: it is not a cover-up. was the fbi that got the suspect, brought him back from england.

the fbi has been on the side of civil rights, they wiped out the ku klux klan which took a lot of courage a lot of understanding, the fbi gets a lot of bad knocks. understandably because they did harass martin luther king in the old days but today the fbi is something i think we should admire. if your kid is kidnapped you better be sure you will be appreciative if the fbi is on the case. >> host: ronald kessler has been our guest for the last three hours on booktv, thanks for your time. >> c-span created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local cable satellite provider. you are watching booktv. beginning now, kevin kerri takes part in a discussion with

college officials where he argues the cost of college combined with advancements in technology will lead to a fundamental transformation of our higher education system in the near future. .. >> to a education analyst in washington, d.c. who have quickly joined the top tier of education writes around the nation. kevin has written for the washington monthly, the new