society, goes along with to a certain extent, at least historically, the liberal political tradition. think of the social contract. and so in a sense you can see contemporary market society andt( õctssq)cializationuii]ñi as rather natural consequences of oure1 political form of life. so toe1c an extent that very virtues get eclipsed. the question is how do you cultivate and teach the virtues in a culture where even the political system, which i think we probablytx don'jd want to --ñi jettison into can he -- more appealing to the vast majority of people.çól% i p question i have. both parts are very interesting. >> a very profound question, no doubtçó about that.t( and if we sounded bleak, that ñi exactly what we wantedñ2 to do.çó [laughter] >> we live in catastrophic

times. ecological catastrophe looming, nuclear catastrophe still a possibility. the economic catastrophe of pq6#rty andq increasing wealth and inequality. the spiritual catastrophe of losing sight of nonmarket values like love and fidelity andfá integrity. andx+oçxd certainly the moraljf catastrophes of variousxdr hatred could be against arabs and muslims against gays andq l:m%9m1:w9u)j black people orlp red people or women< and so forth. against christians in certain contexts. certain right-wingnb christians. so many morefá right-wing christians than revolutionary christianszvlike myself. when9

v how are things over there, what is their relationship between their use andq the schools between themn weapon5aall in this together. we hang together we hang separately. that is part of the truth-telling that is required but it's stillw3i] bleak. i think it'sñr alwaysñi ar8 candle inñr the dark. ande1 tony morrison. that's the best of the humanw3 condition.9 weñi went --çó we but we had this conference 50 years ago, the school was only about five years old. but we that this dialogue here 50 years agook it was bleak then.ó[ especially in certain contexts. where people were ñ catching hell right? even though people could have

been ñ highly -- when they thought everything was nice and smooth."%"pvá world is to narrow, get out of your bubble. the world is full of a lot of suffering and misery.

pointedxdfár removing the moral content andu valorizing the private9 life to expandw3y everyone could just lead their open!.e lives, doing that's please, stayin!cout ofyma5 sé"(r other's way.a5 to expand the private sphere, and to limit what goes on in the public sphere to a certain set of c the professor mentioned. ...r

>> reporter: the domain in which the domain will be held that would be limited by excluding reasons that were not public, matters that were not proper the public concern matters having to do with virtue. the good of life. the good things of life. didn't want battles to be over the good. duty over the structures in which we in each of our own way would pursue. i have been a severe critic of wealthy and philosophy, i found the work to be a tremendous challenge. even as the critic recognized the impulse was entirely

understandable and legitimate. where did this enlightened project, and leighton and project come out of. horrible wars of religion, the brutal bloody wars that for europe apart. fighting over big issues, god, faith, and lachemann project, untamed politics is dangerous. nasty brutish and short. we have got to do something about that. this is the challenge of the professor's question. but we find as a result of the triumph of that and light mint view of politics is the culture about which professor west and i

are complaining. the sting of the professor's question is this. you two might very well think we produced a degraded culture, a selfish culture, a culture and lacking in virtues, and humidity, courage, steadfastness, faith and so forth but do you want to return to a situation where politics is no longer kim? politics goes back to fighting -- they disagree about what the french use are, we want politics to be about that this agreement. we say as christians. every human being is a precious

child of god, other people don't think that don't believe that. we want our politics to be premised on that? do we want to have battles about that? so he is saying to the two of us, look, it might be that you have the choice, a political system that at least provides a safety by removing the most divisive and difficult and existential questions or a degraded and debased culture which may be the natural outcome of obtained politics. that is the series challenge to us because we don't want the degraded culture. we want public witness to be prophetic. we want the big issues of human

life meaning, value, virtue to be engaged at the public level but we don't want to go back to the wars of religion so we want to find an alternative and the onus is on us. walt put out his proposal that had blocked before and others. we have a big problem with it, we are critics of it. all right fine. if you reject zach what is your alternative, what are you going to put in its place? what will politics look like as you would structure things? serious question. >> thank you very much let's give them a hand. [applause] >> they are available to sign books, if you have a question you can ask that the book signing in the full a.

faith you for stimulating discussion this evening and exhibiting exactly what we are trying to get ask, the common ground principle we are trying to achieve. brother cornell and brother robbie deserve a cut bag. [applause]tote bag. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> booktv is on twitter and facebook and we want to hear from you. tweet us twitter.com/booktv or

post a comment on our face book page facebook.com/booktv. >> welcome to st. augustine fla. on booktv. founded in 1665 is the oldest continuously occupied european settlement in the united states. with the help of our comcast cable partners over the next 90 minutes we will speak with local lawyers as we learn about the city and its history including a look at henry flagler who developed the east coast of the state into a tourist destination. >> he needed to own the railroad between jacksonville and st. augustine to ensure that guests could get to his hotel conveniently. he built the first railroad bridge across the st. johns river in jacksonville so that people could make it to new york to st. augustine without changing trains. >> later we visit the st. augustine historical society.

>> we have a wide range of materials, we have the first journal for the city council to the territorial act, we have a similar award journal, and a fascinating little piece which is st. augustine linked. >> and learn about the franciscan monks who settled the area. >> [speaking in native tongue] >> we are at the mission grounds. the mission is the place where

in september of 1565 men mendez, the first explorer to this part landed here not far from us and celebrated the first mass in this site. this area has been a shrine for many years and is particularly important. if you notice the church dedicated to our lady -- our lady of the milk, there was a devotion that was throughout the roman catholic world but particularly brought from spain in the 1600s and was put in this area, a statue and became a popular site for those who wanted to come to pray, invoke the support of mary but in particular became well-known for those who are struggling to conceive and there was a natural link between mothers and this site particularly important also

in light of the people that live in this area because we have different groups of indigenous people and among them the canoe -- they passed power through the maternal line. power was passed through the maternal line meaning of a role of women was important. you can see how as christianity was introduced here the devotion to mary not only reflected in catholic view of the world and the role of mary but has a special link with the people of this area who recognize the importance of mothers in their tribal culture. the purpose for many years there have been attempts by the spanish to settle in florida and the attempts failed for various reasons. with this was about is the french had established an outpost in the area of jacksonville.

the french huguenots and spanish wanted to make sure the french gained a foothold here. st. augustine, this area was very important when you think about trade. this would have been a place where potentially the treasure galleons coming from the caribbean would pass by here in this area before they would head out over the ocean so there's a strategic point to being here but it is important to remember too said over politics and economics, crucial factors, there was also religious mandate that pedro menendez receive from the king that he was supposed to evangelize, bring the catholic faith to the people he your and so this was the intent from the beginning, franciscans the back to st. francis of assisi, small town north of rome, frances was and up and coming businessman, his father was in the clock for a. he had remarkable -- outside the

walls of the city. he was struck by the suffering of the lepers and was moved in some mysterious way he says to exchange his riches for their poverty so he began to visit and work with the lepers and pretty soon any number of young people both men and women followed his example. this movement began to move through rome. columbus was a influenced by the franciscans and was in consultation with them prior to his coming to the united states so the franciscans 11 view of life was very well known by columbus and the spanish royalty were very much in favor of getting the franciscans to come

to the new world so with-mendez had contact with franciscans 11 through the king of spain and was able to appeal to the franciscans so in 1573, this is not by chance 12. the first 12 apostles went to mexico to begin evangelizing there so the friars came here and established their first outpost which was the convent in town here. the interesting thing for many of us because we did this book on the spanish borderlands on franciscans in california texas and florida, what marks and distinguishes the franciscans experience in florida is when they are arrived here they encountered a group of people that had a class structure they

could relate to. there was a clear hierarchical order to the indigenous societies here so the spanish made an effort to recognize the individual classes and offered corresponding rewards, gifts if you will, recognition of their status with in this society which meant as opposed to some other areas they were able to integrate into the society fairly easily compared to some other parts of the country and the new world. what happened here is the franciscans were following intentionally or not there early model of st. francis of assisi which is you should go one of the ways of proclaiming the gospels to live with the people so what we find is instead of big monastery's being built and the indigenous peoples being brought to the monasteries the franciscans went one by one, lived in some of these different villages and formed areas to

teach the doctrine of the faith in the village and they had numerous places and outlying areas they would go to visit and proclaimed the faith there. it would be -- it would not be true to say there were no problems or struggles but in contrast, in comparison to different franciscans evangelization efforts something very special happened here in florida. franciscans who were here, people who introduced to the temecula and people way of writing so they were able to put their spoken language into written form with grammar which means it is the first indigenous written grammatical language in the united states. so evangelization here was not simply standing on the street corner and preaching. was a whole educational system franciscans set up and decided

already in spain and this was a worldwide effort because missions were going on in peru, the philippines, the same things they were doing there is a reducing here which means native indigenous authors in florida already around 1600 which has changed our understanding of the indigenous peoples of this area. they would have symbols and there was a symbol of the cross that was here and the spanish would kneel before it and kiss it and we would see indigenous people here doing the same thing. in other words they connect religion to particular symbols so that was one way they communicated and records from different churches in this area over 200 years the franciscans word here, secular priests as well, we recognize there were a lot of images and statues your, the churches were clearly filled with paintings, statues that

was one of the most direct ways of transmitting the faith through the visual. also we have reports, records that the spanish also introduced the indigenous people to music and music became an incredible way of transmitting the faith because they would sing. this was a very franciscans way of the evangelization going back to st. francis of assisi who wrote his famous cattle of brother's son which was the first literary piece in the language so for -- franciscans had that sense that language is an important part of praising god, spreading the faith. music poetry, all these different ways you can get people involved with the word become essentials of evangelization so if you will they prided themselves in a certain way and mention time and time again there chronicles and

letters they made a special effort to learn the languages of the people. so we know from different accounts there are any number of franciscans 11law rarely stable to function, they bore able to teach and preach in those languagess. [speaking in native tongue] >> this is the longest continuing colonial city in the united states. another part of the story as i mentioned was the franciscans 11 were here two centuries before the franciscans arrived to evangelize in california. the culture in many ways, 200 years is a pretty decent period of time so for 200 years almost two centuries there was a rough

riding multi-ethnic culture that faltered through spanish piety and not just if you look at different places but the layout of the city, it is a wonderful place where you can see how the other story of the united states which is not told is incredibly important. is important not just because of what it says about florida and the united states because of the international dimension. this place long before international is asian became a buzzword this place was marked by different people ethnic groups, cultures, language trade and religion. >> booktv is in st. augustine, fla. with the help of comcast. next we visit the st. augustine

historical society research library with chief librarian bob nawrocki. >> we are standing today at the smith house built in 1780, the building was given to the st. augustine historical society and march 3rd, 1995, the historical society research library opened up in the building. today we have a wide range of materials, art that was done by the plains indians that were held captive in the forge, fort marion, the seminole war did journal by dr. mop. and it relates to warren g. harding. and under the united states territorial lacked, and almost from the thursday the society was founded we have been trying to collect documents and other material relating to the

history. st. augustine was founded 450 years ago this year and is the oldest continuously occupied european city in the united states so he read the st. augustine historical society we are trying to collect material to allow people to research that history and also to sort of make the united states aware of the importance of st. augustine. in 1763 as part of the treaties that ended the french and indian war. the british had captured cuba, havana, and retaining of van and cuba traded to the british. and under the british period for 20 years, governor grants and

governor tony, went to the colonial office papers from public records office in london. these were on microfilm, went through those documents into abstract and all the documents that related to st. augustine so we have a cubic foot of transcribed material that talks about the history of st. augustine during that period of time so here we have in 1767 we talk about orders from his majesty, 1764, tracts of land for john tucker, blackberry, we have information about the fort being damaged by a hurricane.

and a royal proclamation of 1763. none arrived to settle on creek land. and established, the governor grant established plantations, cotton, in the go. and what kind of exports the colony can make. a different attitude towards that. let me tell you how the county was governed and to was governing and what rules were established, all the most mundane things. between 1763 and 1764 of the spanish inhabitants of st. augustine left, they all moved to cuba.

during the 20 years the british were here they established plantationss bartram came through town and st. john's and he describes many of those plantations, the crops thatd sretat ates176e0awas a bu under the spanish

government. trying to set as the city government these are all the ordnance is an organizational materials they required in order to establish that. during the 1870s yen 1880s planes indians and are patchys

were brought from leaders of s were brought from leaders ofbrought from leaders of various bands or, quote, troublemakers, the idea was these individuals would be, quote, civilized end when they returned to arizona or the planes they wouldn't cause, quote, trouble. capt. pratt was the individual who was doing this and he eventually went on to found the carlisle indian school in carlisle pa.. the indians, the native americans have a couple options to make some money. they made bows and arrows which they sold to northern forests

who came here. there were examples of a couple how walls or buffalo bill wild west type shows, and also created ledger charge, paper using crayons or ink and paper. to bose document the life that they remembered as well as what was happening in st. augustine so we have five pieces that represents both of those aspects. we have three pictures here. we have two writers on their horses. this writer is still talking down and firing a gun and attempting to shoot him with a spear has been shot. we have two native americans on

their horses. the native americans were taken to a circus and here are some examples two acrobats on a horse, they have the reds, one gentleman is holding up the other while they ride on the horse and here we have an acrobat on a horse while a gentleman holds a piece of wood up to make the horse jumped over and here in the corner a native american clown. their interpretation of what a clown looks like. as well as two images of female horse riders riding horses and performing acrobatic tricks. in the 1830s and 40s the seminole war was an important

aspect in florida. there were three seminole wars. eventually the creeks and what were called the seminoles move further south but it typed up a great deal of american soldiers at the time and we are very lucky to have bought manuscript journal of dr. moss's time in florida. in camp and fields which serious incidents among the creeks and seminals and sketches of what life was like in florida at the time. he was stationed in st. augustine with the troops and as the troops went in the field, he was required to go and various fevers and they were shot and injured, the doctor had to

travel with them and get them back into health. and we had any number of diseases that would sell the soldiers as well as bullets and arrows from the native americans that they were fighting. we have been camped near taos and charming clearing about three weeks when our neighbors began to be too troublesome for logger proximity, they displayed too great and affection by supplying them with a soldier's greatest treasury whiskey thereby injuring their morals and keeping them constantly testing. there were two copies of this journal in existence, there is the first draft of the documents, the florida historical society and we're

lucky to have the second one which corrected proofs, he was planning on publishing this material but he never did. in the 1950s, he found this material, transcribed added additional information and published it as journey into wilderness, edited by james sund sunderman sunderman. an important resource and important tool for understanding what was happening in floor at the time. the first hand account of what was going on during the seminole war. we have to register from the st. augustine link showing warren harding played one of numerous games of golf at st. augustine. before he became president he determined who was going to be in his cabinet. at the top of this page we have warren g. harding from marion

ohio. he had several golf clubs he attended so he played a number of rounds of golf in st. augustine. here we have a picture. an individual getting ready to shoot up but there he is with his golf club. in those days you got elected in november but didn't take off until march. basically you had five months to make those decisions, we tried to preserve its so people have an understanding to become grounded in what the history of the area was and how their life fits into the history of the united states and st. augustine, fla.. >> in st. augustine, fla. we met with historian michael butler and discuss social issues that arose in northwest florida

following the civil rights movement. >> most history of the civil rights movement focus on the montgomerie years, the king years they focus on what happened in terms of how facilities integrated and that is an important story to tell. what i was most interested in was what happens in communities that didn't grab national headlines which was number one. and number 2, what happens when the television cameras went away in most parts of the region and pensacola, fla. one of the most perfect place to examine, found the majority of struggles the pensacola encountered, the more serious struggles happened after facilities in degraded after the lunch counter was integrated, happened after employers began to hire more african-americans live it happened after king's assassination in 1968.

of pensacola story is an important story to tell because it gets us into the heart of what happened in most southern communities in the aftermath of integration. they realize integration was mandated by law. that if things didn't go well in their community, that it could have the potential for a place like birmingham or montgomerie, there would be a large scale demonstration, there would be a large-scale campaign where outside groups like the naacp would come in as happened in many areas in the late 1960s. pensacola had so much on its tourist economy and most importantly federal military base, the naval air station. they didn't want any outside agitation, didn't want outsiders

coming in to investigate the desegregation process and cut off funding for naval appropriations or the impact of the tourist trade. pensacola like many other southern cities realized the inevitably of integration particularly after 1964 with the civil rights act being signed. they went along and fulfilled the minimum requirements of the law. that doesn't mean whites accepted blacks an ends the on the application of the law. what happens in pensacola, issues like police brutality. and bring the two groups into conflict with each other. neither issue is regulated by law. pensacola had the experience many other southern locations did and how do we have meaningful coexistence of the raises that is not mandated by the law.

the idea of white dominated law enforcement being on extension of jim crow law is not foreign to most other locations not new inside the south or with in the south. law enforcement actually represented the legal extension of jim crow law for a humanity--a variety of reasons, law enforcement maintain and law enforcement on the sheriff's department in escambia county. a brutal reputation from native americans throughout the nation often do. for reasons i get into in the public. the sheriff's department in escambia county tended to hire

people they over set that legal boundaries. they are white dominated and able to exercise their authority in weighs against the black population that they would not be allowed to exert in black communities. an example of that it stems back to pensacola. one of the tactics that law enforcement had in trying to end in the 1961 into 1962 in pensacola, law enforcement would approach african-americans who are sitting on barstools, sitting in chairs trying to integrate restaurants that replace batteries or packages from the dining counter was connected to, they place those items in the pockets of demonstrators and the rest them

for shoplifting. that mistrusts started in the >> host: 60s and really grew windier >> host: 60s and continued in the 1960s and 70s, one person i interviewed from escambia county said an african-american gentleman, when we saw the escambia county sheriff's department we were taught to fear them. that fear carried over into the 1970s and the reputation the sheriff's department had within the african-american population was not only to be brutalized in some cases they could shoot to kill and the officers would be exonerate by a white crepe injury, they would never have to be accountable for their actions. that is really the episode, that is the topic, the fear of white

sheriff's brutality. that bring races into direct conflict with each other in pensacola in the mid-1970ss. there are many indications that the economic gap between whites and blacks in escambia county is more voluminous than it was 40 years ago. the gap that exists between what african-american income is now compared to what white income is now and how that has changed over time. per-capita income gap between whites and gaps in pensacola has actually doubled since 1960. so instead of the economic gap shrinking, the economic data is actually growing overtime. one of the conclusions i reached in the book one of the findings, one of the things,

points of consideration in the book is the cultural conflicts impact economic standing or vice versa, what is the relationship between the movement's focus on police brutality and economic standing social standing what about political representation? in other words are we focusing on the right things? one of the important parts of the book and contributions that i hope that it will make is to cause scholars, cause casual readers to reexamine the civil rights movement. what happens nationally with the civil rights movement is in the mid 60s as the civil rights act, voting rights act are passed, forms of segregation ended. that means segregation by law.

schools had to integrate. public facilities theaters, laundromats, skating rinks all had to integrate and they do. blacks and given the constitutional rights to vote, then given that tote along time ago but now they have federal protection to exercise that right. and african-americans constitute 25% of the population. and the vote for african-americans was never really with held. wind the civil rights act and voting rights act changed discriminatory laws. we tend to think that is the end of the movement but it is not the end of the movement. the movement actually shifted. the movement shifted from a

focus on segregation by law to actual forms of segregation which is segregation by practice. i think in all honesty that race relations in escambia county today are much as they are throughout the nation, frozen in a state of fear. for whites is a state of denial. for blacks it is a state of fear that the system could be used against them. what i hope my son will do is force white leaders to acknowledge power has been used unjustly in the past, african-americans have reason to not trust law enforcement. they're still discriminated against in county public schools. they have a right to feel images nicknames symbols are used to make him feel unwanted and they will acknowledge it has happened in the past which

african-americans hopefully will be invited into the local decisionsmaking process their grievances will be heard and taken seriously. i think most blacks in escambia county feel that they are powerless, powerless to change anything in terms of their real economic or political standing. problem is lack of accountability and lack of due process. any time people take the law into their own hands on either side problem is lack of accountability law enforcement has. the fact that a white person can shoot and kill, not injured, not wound but can shoot and kill an african-american and face no penalty, that is a very real issue what many people fail to realize is that is an issue that

has a long historical precedent in this nation. to ignore it is to continue the same mistakes that are made in the past in my opinion. >> next on booktv's recent visit to st. augustine fla. we cheer from steve berry author of "the patriot threat". examines the income tax laws in the united states. >> i will take some questions. i don't talk very long. i like questions so don't be bashful when the time comes. i want to tell a little story to start off, to get your imagination going. imagine it is 1913 and there is the united states congress under control of the republicans and they are sort of the party of the rich, this is when it began actually this label of the party of the rich and they decide to propose an amendment we are not the party of the rich, we are with the common folk.

we are going to propose an amendment to the constitution to make it easier to implement an income tax. it is hard to do. there are impediments in your way. almost impossible to implement it. that is why we didn't have any. they want to make it easier. they proposed this amendment and the idea was for it to fail. they didn't want it to pass. they wanted to show everyone they were willing to do this. what happens was the congress approved it. be like this amendment. send it to the states. once the ratify, two, six, it started booming and by 1913, february of 1913 they had enough states who had ratified it, 34 states had ratified the amendment, it was sent to the secretary of state and their request since that got raised, whether the ratification had

been done properly. the questions were so significant that the secretary of state asked the solicitor general of the united states what do you think? he told him what he thought. he wrote it down in an opinion and sent it to him and said you have some problems here. tread lightly. don't go forward with this. check it out. the secretary of state did what any good politician would do. he ignored him. ignored him. and declared the amendment not ratified in effect. you might think that is part of the novel, part of a fictional novel that is part of the story that i made up. everything i told you is true. everything i told you actually happened. this is what got this going to. this is what got this started. this process of whether the sixteenth amendment to the constitution is a valid amendment or not at that caught my imagination going. what can i do with that? how can i put this together? that i found out something i

never knew and you may not be there. the 91% of federal revenues come from income-tax. talk about putting your aids in one basket. imagine what would happen if the income tax was declared invalid. he would have no revenues coming in. it is a rate of $1 million a minute. you would literally go bankrupt. i thought about that. how could you make that play? it becomes as one character says in the book the cleverest weapon of mass destruction of the denies, the greatest threat to america lies within its own constitution. if you want to catchphrase. the patriot fred was born. this whole concept of this. involves around andrew mellon and franklin roosevelt. he was secretary of the treasury for 11 years in the 1920s 3 three presidents. that is amazing to pull that off, to get three separate presidents and choose you as

their secretary of treasury. how he managed to do that no one knows but i talk about that in the novel, how that might have happened. andrew mellon and franklin roosevelt hated each other's guts. they despise one another with a passion. roosevelt blamed mellon for the depression, mellon thought roosevelt was an opportunist who didn't know the first thing about anything. we hear today about the irs being used for political purposes. we are rank amateurs on fat. andrew mellon started that process and the 1920s when he turned the irs on his enemies. roosevelt returned the favor, he indicated mellon for tax evasion. mellon be the charges and won and at the end there is a confrontation between two giants on dec. 31 1936 and the white house, a prologue of the novel. 90% of what you are going to read in the prologue actually happened. i got to entertain you. it is a little more to their

feud then was released their but most of the was true and this is when the national gallery of art was born. andrew mellon is the one who gave $8 million to the united states and he wanted the national gallery of art. he supervised the building, he was very hands-on died eight months later but left specific instructions on how things would be done and they respected that. andrew mellon fdr sixteenth amendment, these are elements of the story but there are a couple more they have to put together. we changed all of our money, the $20 bill, $10 bill, all different now to -- there is an active congress, federal law passed by congress that forbids the changing of the $1 bill. it is interesting, isn't it. actually cannot be changed, has to stay exactly like it is. that fascinated me. why in the world would we have

such a rule and there are some interesting things on the face of the $1 bill you are a little shocked in the book. these things that appear in there and one in particular involved solomon, a jewish man who lived in new york city but moved to philadelphia. he was connected very strongly with robert morris, the treasurer of a fledgling new united states. solomon is the man who finance the american revolution, loaned this country hundred dollars of his own money. to this day that that has never been repaid by the way. five times congress considered it and congress said no. they you know what is worse today $300 billion. depending on how you calculate it, that is what it is worse, it was never payback but solomon was so critical that george washington is said to have left

a special thank you with in the great seal of the united states ended is on the back of the $1 bill right now and when you read the novel you will see what i am saying you will see where it is. it is an interesting symbol he left on the great seal of the united states that is on the back of the $1 bill, a thank you for solomon. solomon died in 1785, he never saw the country become what it became and his heirs tried to get the money back but they never could to this day. solomon plays a big role in this. those of you read my books no about my recurring character, in ten adventures, this is his eleventh and he is retired justice department agent, lives in copenhagen, runs an old book shop and stays in trouble all the time. she cannot stay out of trouble in this case he has been sent on a simple error and to take care of something that turns into something much more. i always wanted to do with story

under 24 hours. most of my books up between 2.5 to three days to four days. charlemagne pursue was the longest of the debt at two weeks, this one is 23 hours so from start to finish it is -- there's a lot going on here. takes place mainly in venice and in croatia. we were on a cruise and i swore it was supposed to be a vacation but it didn't become one. started looking around everywhere so everything he does on that ship, i have been all over is there so that ship is part of this whole thing he gets caught up in an ends up in croatia in washington d.c.. we went to d.c. the fdr library in hyde park and we were overseas as well. when you go there, there's a painting, forms a big part of this novel towards the end of the store, it is there and

contains incredible symbolism that will be very fascinating. the painting is a huge. 15 feet or so why did, eight and nine feet tall, has a big frame on it this wide. the frame has a secret compartment in it. a little plug in the bottom right corner and i just made it up. i went up there to do additional research and i said i looked down there. there is nothing, i looked underneath it and there is a plug in the bottom corner so i called down on the floor and i am on the floor looking up and the guy, the curator comes rushing over there and he says what are you doing? i told him what i was doing so he crawled down with me so we are looking at this floor in there and what it is is a plug that holds an iron pins that holds the quarter to get there

but it was still cool the there was a plug on the bottom right corner of this thing and i made the whole thing up. when i go to the national gallery of art you go down to the floor and see the plug right up in their. and amazing building if you have never been in there. incredible what they did with it and there's a lot of cool stuff at the national gallery. that is what i came to tell you about with this novel. let me take some questions. i would like to answer what you would like to talk about. you have something? >> all over the place from columbus to henry h. to congress in 1913 so when you are not writing books are you just reading all kinds of history all the time? >> not really. when i do a novel i read literally around 3 to 400 books i don't read every word of those books but i read good chunks of those books large chunks. when you are done it may be 100

plus books that i read cover to cover. i do a lot of research division this particular book i read a lot about the early 20th century and andrew mellon and roosevelt and the sixteenth amendment and the ratification process of an amendment, i went through all of that. i am researching the next book, i usually don't get to read history for fun. every once in awhile i come across a book that is for fun. i am reading one on the smithsonian, everyone's in a while i get to do that. mainly for the research of it. i will tell you something about ratification of amendment ii. i didn't know if this. the secretary of state in those days today -- this particular person declares an amendment ratified so when an amendment goes out they wait until the state delegate and say yes, yes, no, no, when they hit 34, today

it will be 38, will then the official declares the amendment ratified. the supreme court of the united states ruled in the 1920s that a decision that an amendment is ratified is not reviewable by a court. and reviewable his decision is final. that is amazing. what if he is wrong? not only that but what if he knew he was wrong? his own warrior told him he was wrong and he ignored his own lawyer's advice that went ahead anyway. fascinating legal principle, fascinating thing that but heads with one another and that but heads in the novel. i had to use that. other questions? >> i think you should be a lawyer. how did you become of writer? >> it was a sudden thing. i am recovering lawyer. any lawyers here? lawyers? some lawyers? i was a politician. 12 years i served in office 12

years. and mainly at county commissioner. it wasn't sudden. all during the 1980s i have a voice in my head the told me to write and every writer i ever met has a voice in their head, i talked to jim patterson. and it doesn't take that to write a best seller. just as he sits down and write. and i will keep nagging you. i did notice for ten years. in 1990 i sat down and wrote a book and i did wrote a manuscript that was that call when i was and which tells you how bad it was. 170,000 words which tells you how bad is too. the novel should be 105. it is almost two novels. it was horrible but it is the greatest thing i ever wrote, the most special thing i ever wrote. it sits on my desk to this day the only thing i have ever kept

in manuscript form is the reason why is because i started it and i finished it. 90% of all writers don't finish what they start and i finished that thing. is so special to me, incomprehensible as far as reading goes. you know y it is? i wrote it like a lawyer. lawyers right. you say it over and over until it is true. just keep saying it enough until it is true. the object of fiction writing is to say it once. both of those are very difficult to do but you don't want to mix them. it took me seven years to break myself, writing like a lawyer and keep it out of my system. lawyers right passably, passive voice. had to get that out of my system to get active voice going and get it all in there. is a small process but took me 12 years from the day i wrote that first word to the day i sold my first word. i wrote the manuscripts in that

time, five at new york publishing houses, they were rejected 85 times. a long process for me to get published. on the 86 time the amber room got bought and made it and that was in 2003 but since that time each book build on the one before it until in 2008 i got to quit the practice of law and i write full time now. yes? >> do you know where you are headed? >> yes. you have to be that way. it is important to have an idea. where do you start a book? that is a fair question? where do you start a novel? there's a simple answer to that question. you start a novel as close to the end as possible. as close as you can get to the end. what does that presuppose? you have got to know the end. you get as close as you can get to it. i outline about 100 pages ahead of myself stay ahead of myself

outlining and writing. i never play catch up. there's always catch up. you can write faster than you could outline. if a writer does an inventory a writer spends 90% of their time thinking what to write and 10% of their time actually writing it. that is the way it works out. you spend most of your time thinking about it. inevitably i catch up to myself and try to say 100 pages ahead of icahn. does it change? absolutely. >> reporter:s all the financial have to be prepared to make the change because i don't have the time to outline the novel all the way through. i do a novel once a year. publishers have this dumb rule stupidest will i ever heard in my life, don't know why they have it. they will not give you a check unless you give them a book. they call it an advance why don't they give it to you in advance? doesn't work that way. they have that rule so i have to get some this manuscript and this is my living.

i have that plan where i am going but it does fluctuate. an end this will change when i got to the end. i tripped up a little bit. not exactly the way i envision did. i like it better the way it came out. >> it was interesting, your comments on the shift in the republican philosophy in the second decade of the 20th century and i am wondering, thinking back, what impact the grace oratory skills of william jennings bryan in the last part of the nineteenth century might have had? >> had a lot to do with it because he was pro income tax, he was in favor of the sixteenth amendment. what happens at this time so you can understand what was happening in 1911-12 this is a presidential election. woodrow wilson is coming into office, we have gone through three straight administrations of republican leadership and now democrats, a progressive

democrat has been elected, america is shifting from the right to the left, shifting over. they don't know that but it is coming and they are shifting so william jennings bryan is very big on this and the roosevelt is back in the picture and wants to get the presidency back. .. >> here's how it works.

they -- here's what the fear was. the large states where the people lived were afraid that the small states would get into congress, outvote them and create a direct tax on every individual. so they created apportionment, and they said here's the deal. whatever the large state raises, then the little state has to raise the same amount of money. so the people in the little states pay more per person than the people in the big states so that the total amount of money equals out apportioned between all of the states. it's a back door way of saying never do this because who would do that? who would -- it'd be very unfair, don't you think? someone living in montana pays ten times the rate of someone living in florida simply because of that. so it was a back door way to never have that tax. and we never did have direct taxes, by the way, until the 16th amendment came along. and all it does if you read the amendment is it takes away the apportionment requirement. it's gone now.

you don't need it anymore. so that's why it got easy to put the income tax into place and that's the whole reason why the amendment was put there. the founding fathers would roll over today if they were here. they would go, like there's no way we ever envisioned taking 39% of someone's income and taking it and giving it to the federal government. they never envisioned that ever. yes, sir. >> how does historical fiction help us understand history? >> well if it's done correctly and accurately, it can be a great teaching tool, yes, it can, because history is a story. i talked to some educators a few years ago in tennessee, they brought men up to talk to -- me up to talk to all the history teachers in tennessee and we talked about it about how to teach history. and history to me, is not taught in a good way and the kids hate it. it's about story. we need to tell a story. now, it has to be an accurate

story to some degree, so historical fiction i think it gets people interested. i think when you finish this book, you're going to want to know more about some of these summits, and you -- subjects, and you may want to learn about it. it'll spur your interest, is what i'm hoping. i do something that people don't do i put a very extensive writer's note in the back of my novels. so i go through the novel line by line, and i tell you everything that's true and everything that's false because i don't want you to leave thinking something's true and it's not. usually you think something's false, and you're going to find out that it's true. there's one little caveat to this do not read it first. [laughter] i've got a horrible e-mail from a lady one day, i ruined the entire novel. of course, i wanted to write back and say, you know, we put it in the end of the book for a reason -- [laughter] so that you don't go there and look first, but she couldn't

help it. because it's really designed that when you're done, you can go through -- and i reference everything by chapter so you can go through and pick it out. so i think these books have a good a function. now, you've got to keep in mind it's not necessarily a good idea to get your history from a novel because it's, by definition, not real. but it's a good starting point. it's a good way to get you excited and started on something. other questions? >> when you do your research do you find that online media, digital media are helpful to you? >> well --? >> [inaudible] >> i don't do as much research online as you might think simply because a lot of it's wrong. now, if i need a quick fact like, you know, what president was andrew jackson, what number was he, if i need a quick fact yeah, i might -- by the way, you might think that's easy. i actually forgot one day whether he was the seventh or the eighth president i went

on -- i got four different numbers. [laughter] but there are some web sites that are very helpful. the cia has a wonderful web site that's very helpful if you need information about countries. i use the internet like a giant index. it's a way to get my imagination going, and then i go and get the books. i do 90 percent of my books at the -- [inaudible] book mine in jacksonville. ever been there? i go in and i buy books by the box loads. and i go in and get, you know, a hundred or so books, i bring them home, go through them i take 'em back i trade them back in and start over again. i've done that now for 25 years, and i was just there yesterday. if you go there enough, his history section is massive. he's got thousands of volumes of history, and he keeps getting new stuff every single day. it's always different every time you go there, it's massive. so i do most of my research there, not necessarily online. yes, ma'am. >> st. augustine is almost in

your backyard. you don't have to get on an airplane. we have a lot of history from spanish to henry flagler. [laughter] is there something here that intrigues you? >> there is. >> you might write about? >> it's going to be in 2018. >> yes. [applause] it's not going to be ancient though. it's going to be more modern history from st. augustine something from the civil rights era. something interesting from the civil rights era in 2018 that does intrigue me, that does intrigue me about here, and i wanted to explore it a little bit more. so that book -- that sounds hike a long way away by the way but i will actually start writing that book coming up january. you stay a year ahead in the book business. i would write that book in '16 turn it in in '17 publish in '18. we have people in town, so i've gotten three or four visits all downtown to see some things so, yes, st. augustine will make an

appearance yes it will. other questions? yes, sir. >> [inaudible] historical fiction. so interesting other than the fact that it's a lot of fact in it is the incredible detail in describing places and people. do you research that or do you make that up? >> no. i fry to keep that as close -- i try to keep that as close to reality as i can because i want you to go there and experience those, and most of those things i have been to. like in the alexandria link, we are in portugal, and i needed these people to go from one part of the abbey and the other, and there was no way so i just created my passageway, but i told you that in the writer's note. so caseally i have to trip up, but i try to keep it as close as i can. here at the national gallery of art ors accurately displayed.

the cruise ship, the boat very accurate. venice is very accurate, the croatian sites are very accurate. i've found that readers of my books enjoy that because they want to go and see them too. somebody had a hand up. yes, ma'am. >> [inaudible] probably got to the point of being very good at keeping track of it. i'm curious how you do that -- [inaudible] outlining ahead. >> it's a highly highly technical thing. you just take a piece of paper and you tear it off and you write chapter one on it and then everything that goes in chapter one goes on that piece of paper. i tried like apps like index card and all these other things but i found i didn't enjoy i. it got more cumbersome. it was just easier to do the piece of paper. i've done the piece of paper for years, and so that's how i outline, just one piece of paper all the way down. and i write -- and the notes are in no order. they're just as thoughts come to

you. but at least it's on one piece of paper. so when i get ready to write that chapter i just take that piece of paper lay it down, i'm ready to go. now, the research is equally as simple when i'm going through the books. i write down the little snippets that i find on the yellow legal pad, i tear 'em off and keep them by subject matter. 16th amendment would be clipped together everything on solomon would be clipped together, and i keep those together so that i can find them quickly. and i just found the low tech method works best. it just -- i tried the high-tech methods, and it was just more trouble than it was worth. it was easier just to keep the piece of paper. you had a question did you have a question? >> [inaudible] >> oh. the one that got me in real trouble. [laughter] >> [inaudible] and i'm wondering if that third secret was ever revealed. >> it was revealed. john paul ii revealed it. some say it wasn't the actual secret some argue that question. the amazing thing about that book, i wrote that book in 1997.

it was one of the ones rejected one of the man you scripts that were rejected -- man manuscripts that were rejected in 2000 he releases the secret to the world, and here i very many the manuscript about a secret that's been secret for 70 years. so random house bought it and incorporated it in there. my third secret's very different. it's the one book that i got in the most trouble with the catholics did not care for it very much. i got damned to hell maybe, i don't know 5000 times. [laughter] i still get damned to hell about three or four times a month. [laughter] from that. but, you know, i try to -- i'll tell you a quick story what happened. we were doing an event like this one night, and i saw a lady sitting in front, and i could see she was really steamed. and it was right after the third secret had come out, and i said do you have any questions and of course, her hand goes right up, and she stands up and just chewed me out. she told me that god would never do that, the virgin mary would

never do that the pope she just went on and on and on, and i said ma'am, are you done? she said, yes. i said well let me say this to you, i just want to make clear to you that, you know, you're absolutely right, you know, i wrote this book and then, you know, of course, god is the infinite being who controlsal things. she says yes. god knows everything right? he's infallible right? i said well i think he's smart enough to know that i made it all up. [laughter] you know it didn't happen. you're right. the pope would never do that god would never do that because i made the entire thing up. you know? it's just a story. that's all it is. but people get very, very impassioned by it. it was just a clever story i came up with long ago. i went to catholic school. anybody go to catholic school? you know what i'm talking about then, don't you? they tell you a lot of what in catholic school, they don't give a lot of why. what if he wasn't a

flame-throwing conservative? we got it all wrong, he's really progressive and hip and he's liberal. we got it all wrong. the third secret has an incredibly positive message on faith, a very negative message on religion because there's a difference between those two. it's the crossing that get us into trouble. that's what the novel deals with, it's the crossing of those. so when that lady stands up and yells at me, i realize she's crossing those lines together. the book deals with the delin nation of those. other -- delineation of those. other questions? yes. >> with most of your books you said -- [inaudible] like, do you have a lot of people that just sometimes don't agree with what you write? >> yeah. oh, yeah, this is a lot of negative -- i've been fortunate though lately. the third secret was my cat lick book, so they damned me to hell pretty bad. the protestants were nice when they damned me to hell. [laughter] they'd write and say i read the book, it was really good unfortunately, you're going to rot in hell for all eternity,

have a blessed day. [laughter] you know, they were very nice about it. and then the alexandria link was the jews and the arabs so i've got 'em all. and in the lincoln myth i took on the mormons. i i was very fortunate though because i didn't do anything negative with them because i have a great respect for that religion. i made that very clear i dealt with mormon history. and i didn't want get hardly anything, in fact -- i didn't get hardly anything. in fact i got a lot of e-mails from the mormons saying they loved the book. they actually play a very critical role in our history, particularly in the civil war and it's all true. it was fascinating. so they were very nice. i don't like to write stuff, you know, where some religious organization's trying to take over the world. that's not the kind of stuff i write. i like to deal with the reality, the real stuff of it. yes, ma'am. >> so many of your fist books dealt with -- first books dealt with history mysteries and unsolved mysteries in history.

>> uh-huh. >> have you got any more up your sleeve? >> i better, or i'm in trouble. [laughter] i'm in trouble if i don't, because i'm okay for four years. i have -- '16's finished because, remember, you turn it in a year in advance so it's finished. '17's okay, '18's okay, and i think '19's okay. >> a real mystery -- >> yeah. i always do that. i deal, everything i try to do in my stories no one's touched before. i don't want like to do what someone's done. the one thing you don't want to do is what someone's already done. even the templer book, when i wrote the templer legacy i dealt with them in an entirely different way. i like to just put my own mark on it, and i like to try to keep it as close to reality as i possibly can. that's the key to it. and i have to find those elements to make it work. my books have to have, first off, have to have an ooh factor. if i say it you go ooh. and the reason why that happened was when i was writing the

templer legacy they asked me what's the next book about, i'd say templer, and everybody would go ooh. so things that get you to go ooh, you know, like paris or char he main or lincoln jefferson, those kind of words that kind of then you have to have the so what, who cares if we find the lost lives offal sand drink ya? who cares if the 16th amendment wasn't properly ratified? it has to have a so what today. so this goes into the titles, by the way the lincoln myth, see? the ooh word the so what. the jeff southern key. jefferson key. the alexandria link. they're all key to that, ooh word and so what, and those go into where we factor our title. so i have to find those, the ooh and the so what.

sometimes i get a great ooh but no so what, or i find the so what, but i can't find an ooh to go with it, and i have to discard it. and i have a big folder, and i throw those in there, and hopefully one day i'll be able to match them up to get them together. yes. >> you written a number of books. can you identify one where you learned the most or enjoyed the most in writing? >> well, i would say the emperor's tomb might be the one where i learned the most because i knew nothing of china. it's a book about oil that has nothing to do with the middle east. doesn't have anything to do -- it has everything to do with owl. and it's very interesting with oil, i don't know if you know this, but the chinese actually drilled for oil 2500 years ago. they drilled it, took it out of the earth and used it 2500 years ago. it's quite remarkable. i knew nothing about china, so that book i probably learned the most because i wanted the reader to get an appreciation too of some of this stuff. and it's a good story dealing

with -- [inaudible] he gets caught up in something really big over there and it goes way back. so that one probably is the one i learned the most from, i would have to say. these others are little ideas that have been running around my head since law school, you know? the whole question of secession of a state which i dealt with in lincoln myth in jeff key -- jefferson key, where we can hire pirates to steal for us. we have the constitutional authority. so i remember all that from law school, so i've been exploring these constitutional things lately. but emperor's tomb may be the one where i started with nothing. i knew nothing of that country. very little about it. this book i knew very little about north korea. and the north korean death camps are in this book too. they are quite horrible. they exist. 200,000 people are in them right now, and i wanted to draw a little attention to it. so one of the characters has a connection to that. only one person we know of has

escaped from the camps and lived to tell the tale, and i read his book. so a lot of what's in the normal i took from his -- in the novel i took from his actual accounts. other questions? >> [inaudible] topic first and then the place of the novel or the period? >> sometimes they go together. sometimes they click in together, but i do try to make sure that each novel goes to different places. i don't want to do the same places over and over again, so i look for subject matters that are substantially different so i can have different locales. i don't like to mix them together. that's not to say i don't want return to some places but it's -- i don't return to some places, but it's usually four or five books later. i might go back to paris a second time, but a different place in paris. because that way the books are fresh. you realize when you write a series here's the trick. every single book has to be the same but different. the same but different.

that's hard to do. that's hard to do. you've got to work on that whether they're the same but different. each one. so you have to work on those elements to keep the books similar but also keep them different. and by the way, in mine don't be intimidated, you can read them in any order you want. you can even read them backwards. i had people read them in reverse order. i write them where you don't have to read them in any order whatsoever so there's nothing that you'll read and go what did i miss? yes, ma'am. >> have any of your books dealt with the banks and -- >> i haven't done that because it's kind of been done a hot. i haven't found a fresh element there yet, and that's what i have to find something that no one has ever done before. that's the element i have to look for. and i, when i find it it'll be great, and i'll be able to -- >> holy grail is -- >> i know. but unfortunately, the da vinci code did that one. laugh it is gone forever.

[laughter] so the -- so's the word "da vinci" by the way, you can never use that one ever again. >> i've read all your books steve, and i'm looking for the genre you're in, who would you recommend? >> in my genre? cussler, of course, is the undisputed master. he's the king of our genre. dan brown, of course but he writes sporadically, only about every three years but he's certainly the king of the genre as well. jim rollins' books are excellent. his are a little more science he's science and a little history, and i'm history and a little science. but they're similar stories. we are similar in that regard. those are really about all in my particular -- chris kaczynski would be another guy who writes in our genre yes that's another one. certainly the classics, you can go to ludlum there's a lady by

the name of helen mcginnis who wrote pack in the '50s and '6s. we consider her the grandmother of the genre. she did action sequences and conspiracies long before. i love her stuff. written a little different than today but interesting stuff. katherine neville, of course, in 1988. that book kind of generated and kind of kick started, again, the book called "the eight." so those are guys i read. let me finish up with a story, i'm going to tell you a quick story. a story about you. yeah. [laughter] people ask this all the time. we go on research trips, you know we go places to research the novels, and that sounds fun. it sounds like wow, we get to go to these exotic places. it's not fun. it really isn't. we go on the ground we're there four days, we have to find what we're looking for. if we knew what it was we wouldn't have to come so we have to go find it. it's a treasure hunt. we have to go locate it. when i went to the cathedral for

the charlemagne pursuit, i had no plot whatsoever. i left four days later with a plot. so i had to create that while i was there. everything that malone discovers in that cathedral i discovered while i was there. so these are really stressful trips. so we were writing the paris vendetta, i had to go to paris to get some things that i could not find in the books. there's just little details, there's a whole bunch of stuff. so we get to the eiffel tower, and we're going up to the top -- it's 905 feet. you ever done it? there's an elevator, it's all glass, literally all glass, and you go up and you can look around, and it's quite spectacular. now, we're going up to the top and i'm looking at elizabeth, and her eyes are getting bigger and bigger and bigger and, i mean, i've never seen that look on her face before, it was a strange look. and they're getting bigger. and on the way up we discovered something we never knew about elizabeth, she does not like heights. [laughter] now, we didn't know this and neither did she, by the way. she did not really know this

either. elizabeth is not upset now, she is now panicked, and there's a difference between being upset and panicked. she's shortness of breath she's freaking out, she's just -- she's losing it right there. and me being the good husband that i am, i look over on her and i pat her on the back, and i hold her and say, okay, honey here's the thick you're -- thing, you're going to have to suck it up, because i need to figure out how to kill somebody up here, and i need a few minutes. [laughter] now, the guard standing right next to me was the only frenchman i know who will acknowledge he speaks english, and he comes over, you know, he asks me what's going on. he said oui oui i'll sit with her. he was very nice. there's a girder there, and she crawled up there and got in the fetal position and we have a lovely photograph of her in the fetal position. [laughter] now, you might think that i'm very cool. now, you might think that, but i'm going to tell you the rest of the story now. here's the rest of the story. the rest of the story starts one

year earlier. we are in the ukraine and we want to see where the nazi resistance spiders hid during world war ii. now, you have to go down this shaft about 100 feet and you have to go into the ground another 200 feet in a place about this wide, about this tall with just these lights and no ventilation, and we learned something about me. [laughter] i don't like that. [laughter] and i had a panic attack. what did she say? suck it up you big baby. exactly what she told me. [laughter] she looked at me and said you've got to suck it up, we're down here, and i didn't want like it. if you've ever been totally encloatzed, you'll know what i'm talking about. it's not good and i freaked out. i'm down underground two hours in that coffin, she's up in the sunshine for 45 minutes okay? and, yes i did pay her back on the top of that eiffel tower for her insensitivity to me the year before yes, i did. [laughter] so we learned this. whenever we do research, we have

to go up high, i go. if we have to go underground she goes. and we get it all right. and by the way, cotton and cat yoap ya have the exact same phobias. and in next year's book we're going to explore cotton's phobia in great detail because i understand it very well. and cassiopia does not like to be up high, so i transfer those there. this has been wonderful. all the money we raised here tonight is going to the st. augustine historical society, it's all part of our history matters foundation. elizabeth and i do this all around the country. we've dope around 75 events now and we're pushing right at a million dollars raised at historic projects. over the next four weeks we're going to be doing five more history matter events as part of our book tour, and we do around eight a year of history matters. so we very much enjoy doing these, we very much enjoy working with historical preservation and doing our part to give back, and tonight what you've done, every dime -- we

don't charge to come we don't charge expenses, in fact, i pay my own way to go to those events, so everything goes to the event. so thank you and give yourselves a hand for all the money you raised tonight. thank you. [applause] >> for more information on booktv's recent visit to st. augustine, florida, and the many other cities visited by our local content vehicles, go to c-span.org/localcontent. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv television for serious readers. >> this weekend on booktv, we're life from the university of -- live from the university of southern california with the 20th annual los angeles times festival of books. today you'll see several author panels and have the opportunity to ask best selling authors your questions. also on "after words," the mother of four military officers talks about what

families go through during deployment. cornel west and robert george discuss bipartisanship, plus the financial cost of rust damage. and we visit st. augustine florida, to see the city's literary sites and to speak with local authors. check booktv.org for a complete schedule. booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction hours and books every weekend on booktv. >> here's a look at some books that are being published this week:

>> look for these titles in bookstores this coming week and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv. [inaudible conversations] >> host: and thanks for watching

booktv, 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend on c-span2. and today we are live on the campus of the university of southern california home of the los angeles times festival of books. today there are several author panels ahead on the plushing industry biographies -- publishing industry, biographies of world leaders and science, and we'll also sit down with tom hayden, travels smiley and hugh hewitt among others while they take your calls. you can get schedule updates on our coverage all day long as well. they'll be on the bottom of your television, and you can find our full schedule on our web site at booktv.org. and now the first panel of the day from the los angeles times festival of books. we're inside newman hall on the usc campus. it's a panel on journalism. four authors will be participating in this panel including hector tobar author

of "deep down dark." booktv live from the los angeles times festival of books starts now. [inaudible conversations] >> okay. i wanted to welcome you all here on this beautiful southern california morning. we have a real full panel, as i said earlier so i want to get started really quickly. when i read these four books, i tried to figure out how am i going to get at the topics that are so diverse that we're covering here, and i thought -- i took some notes, and i thought i'd just share very quickly the notes that i took so you get a sense of how amazing this panel is and how lucky you all are to be here. we have four writers here, one of whom is a publisher, at least two of whom are international journalists, and we have at least two novelists and if you want to hear how stories can unfold from a