a >> also identifies a great deal of information about the causes of errors which allows the specific and effective policy solutions. that policy solutions. they are challenges to improving accuracy and a vast and complex system whose main system is to educate children, not administer the meal programs. the school meal programs operate

in nearly 100000 schools nationwide and there's wide variation. their staffing and resources and technological capacities vary widely. there's also variation in what children get meals in the lunchroom or classroom and have fiscal checks who is in which category. small rural schools have different operational and administrative capacities in larger districts assert hundreds of thousands of students. meal tracking systems can range from paper to state-of-the-art software. schools are not really set up to do the the eligibility determinations at the public benefit programs do. the step program for medicaid have teams of professional eligibility workers who spend all day everyday sorting of the details that opens income and household circumstances. in schools or might be cafeteria worker or secretary who had thousand applications for a few weeks at the start of figure. the question is given the tools the programs disposal and a system or data with how can

congress improve accuracy in the program? an example can help share the way. beginning with the 2004 reauthorization and building on that in 2010 congress set a clear expectation to improve the use of the rigorous eligibility determinations made by other programs primarily snap. because this kind of programs are longtime a rigorous income investment this approach saves time and reduces air. in the past decade there've been striking improvements. nearly half of all children of proof for free or reduced price meals are not approved without having to complete an application. that's an enormous simplification and congress played an important role by setting an expectation and then providing tools and support. my written test what describes many other tailored steps congress and usda have taken to strengthen the program but bedroom to be more. it's important to strengthen management and oversight across the board, provide extensive

health statistics by persistently struggle with errors and pursue innovations that could open up new ways to improve accuracy. for example, gao recommend exploring use of data matching. that's worth trying to usda plans to develop a model electronic application for the first time, another promising innovation. as you consider ways to improve accuracy in the school meal program i urge you to consider these four questions. first that's a proposal have a proven record of reducing air? some ideas that some promising like requiring households to pay stubs with your application have not actually been effective when tested. second will maintain program x. is for the most vulnerable children? nearly 60 million short of the house of expensive food insecurity. we don't want to worsen that problem. third is is it administratively feasible? that might prevent some errors that could cause others by adding a step to the process.

fourth, is a cost effective? high quality information management systems can be very effective but might cost too much for small scottish. it's critical a reduction strategies not reduce access to school meals for children who need them. the best way to improve integrity is not to punitive policy but instead to continue sending a clear message to school attrition officials that program actors is important measured, and federal officials will support them in implementing needed improvements. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. thank you. mr. warren committee think the ship from the congregation process that emphasizes for cause verification would enhance the program integrity and simply would have a negative effect on access for eligible participants?

>> no. i think again senator, there is a way to do it without impacting people who truly deserve it. what we found in our work is the for cause, the review of questionable applications, some school districts were not doing any for cause of repetitions of questionable applications. so there's definitely potential there to do that more consistently across school districts. and i should add a that's a usda requirement, school districts are required to conduct these type of reviews. anytime we see that type of inconsistency that gives us some concern. >> ms. neuberger, i would like to know more about the point of service and the child in a cafeteria worker -- and the cafeteria worker do interact and he couldn't happen you will be paid. decided this as a step which many errors do occur.

can you walk as to what happens except at the point of the service? i'm not an expert but cindy jones is and we were at a lot of points there. such a point that out for me please. >> it sounds like a chance to the school meal programs which is great. i hope the rest of you will take us in because there's nothing like seeing it firsthand. let me describe a typical scenario, a lot of variation so you might have a cafeteria with a 30 met lunch period, dozens if not hundreds of students coming to a like a sometimes this choice about what they take, not always, and when they have been on the tribeca to a cashier at the end of the line. that cashier needs to check in to make sure its meeting nutrition standards and figure out who the child is to make sure that meal this market and the right meal category them free, reduced or paid. that's a process that has to happen to quickly when you got lots of students waiting in line and it's only when make it

through the process they finally get to be. this is not a sophisticated interaction. talking maybe seven or eight year old and has to happen really fast. that us great opportunities for air. there are innovative models have been tried not to make it easier for kids to get meals. for example, for older students there might be a cart in the hallway we can pick up a breakfast and take with you to class. that makes it easy for students to eat, also reduces errors related to what's in the meal because they're taking prepackaged meal but that's very faster transaction where you have to have a process for going who was taking and keeping track. the process is a decentralized and that means the are sometimes opportunity or error and you need to react accordingly. >> well, thank you for that application. a question for you both. these electronic data matching the method of additional verification that would be least burdensome to school soup --

school food providers? which will cause the least additional burden? >> i'll go ahead. the data matching is used now to different steps in the process. first at the certification at the group what we can use the data from snap everywhere and a certain states are allowed to use medicaid data to automatically enroll kids. the application process has been a source of error and so they were families have to go through the process the more can be automatically enrolled, the more you reduce opportunity for air. the program has been moving in that direction over the last five years or so many more students are directly certified. as result even though the are more children in the free or reduced adequate now because the recession, schools after process applications for two-and-a-half million fewer families. that's much less paperwork at schools, a great step forward. the other place is at the

verification stage. that's checking applications. that's working to turn to look at more data sources as gao recommended. i would caution against expanding the number of kids that get verified because many families don't respond to to to the request individual in the benefits whether or not they're eligible that data could be good with pinpointing application. application. >> i'm a little worried about the privacy issue. >> yes. >> more than a little wordy. let me say i have a concern about holding states accountable to a different standard, i.e. three years and then we just got a report from the inspector general from the food and nutrition service indicating, and i think my figures are accurate, going from the study which is just out errors 1.9 billion school lunch, errors

770 million school breakfast. we are not the pentagon for that matter any other agency, but that's a considerable amount of money. i don't see the one of you have had access to the information if you'd like to make a comment on that, but it should be a concern to the committee, is a concern to the committee. >> i agree with you, mr. chairman. the proper payments rate over all for the program is about 15-point to 5%. it is is it has declined slightly from last year assuming the data is reliable. at the same time close to $1 billion of improper payments were into certification area. >> i apologize for interrupting i'm already over time and we've gone on a considerable amount of time. we have a lot of people waiting. basically 1.9 billion school

lunch, 770 million. it's minus 10 states are asked to audit every three years but this last report for the last report we could come up with was back in 2005 it's been 10 years. so i think we are holding, you know, the f. nfs and the federal component of his which of course, is now playing a much stronger role to a different standard than that of the state and that's a concern to me. why 10 years? >> so the reviews of the district to happen in every three years. they can report your talking about is a nationally representative study that usda does its very in depth report with eco-stand encounters and watch to see which if i could see the second report is a board. it also israel to the costly and takes a long time to do but it provides because of mission that we very helpful in developing proposals for how to improve

errors because you really get to the bottom of what's causing errors and what kind of errors are most prevalent and that allows you to design tailored solutions. >> senator stabenow. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. in this area we juggle of course the desire and the need to make sure we are accurate that children who need and qualify for lunch and breakfast are getting it as opposed to those who should not be. on the other hand, we have situations we don't want to add additional calls to the local schools were juggling between administrative costs and actually providing quality meals. and so we have a number of issues to juggle. i know in the last bill we did come having community eligibility put into place has made huge difference in michigan and schools to be more efficient and have more dollars going actually to feeding hungry children. but mr. lord first it sounded

like you were saying that the usda has accepted your recommendations and are moving forward to make changes? >> absolutely. they agreed with all of our report recommendations, and gracefully provided an update of steps they're taking to implement them which is frankly good news for the program. >> that's great that's wonderful. and again when we talk about program integrity measures which are very important they can have unintended consequences of removing should actually should be giving food. could you give us some examples when this happens and what approaches we can take to actually improve improper payments at the same time protecting access for children? what's the best way to do that? >> will come as we highlighted in our report we think you can attack is some very same goes. obviously, the verification process we think could be strengthened to again you can do it in the wacom it will not adversely impact children truly in need. i get the sense that school

districts are reluctant to do this bill because of the lack of training expertise spent the extra cost and the kinds of things are talking about? >> i think it would impose some additional costs but in the end the net result would be your potentially freeing up some additional funds you could devote to the program to those who truly are deserving from a cost-benefit standpoint i think would be effective but that usda is called. they would have to do more additional studies on the. >> that's always a juggling. ms. neuberger, talking about deprecation steps and additional administered costs and how we balance that, we want integrity in hisin these programs that we want everything to go to children who need it. but even an automated tools can be cost prohibitive for some schools that are on tight budgets. do you believe additional investments in error reduction

could come at the expense of improving meals? and would you look at the per meal reimbursement, what funding to the kit to cover administered costs associate with meal programs versus investments in technology? i think we need to understand this so we can do this right. >> that's an important question. at the school district levels, schools get a per meal reimbursement. that's for free meals just about $3 right now and that has to cover all the costs associate with running the program. so it is buying the food the status of it and prepare the food and all of the administrative. there isn't a separate funding stream to cover by a software system or putting more staff in place to do these kinds of checks. it's really important to balance the goal here because if you much of those funds have to go toward admission processes they are not available for food. at the federal level that have been grants to states to improve their technology systems and

those seem to have been contributing to a reduction in that kind of error. so that's been a great investment that is paying off. >> the chairman and i can talk about the fact that particularly for very small schools, i went to school in one of those in northern michigan that can become particularly difficult. and so we are interested in working with you on recommendations as it relates to very small schools as well spent with the senator yield? >> i would be happy to. >> i haven't visited in a schools get but we're getting there. and there's a tremendous difference in the school the center represents another schools that are doing this. they're doing a pretty darn good job. then you go to rural small town america, and i mean real rural small town america. they simply cannot keep pace with the paperwork, et cetera et cetera come into training mr. lord obvious says would

certainly help out the they're doing the best they can. this isn't a one size fits all that kind of that's obvious to everybody here but i want to underscore what senator stabenow said. we've got some real challenges out there. thank you. >> reclaim my time and take one more question, ask one more question. ms. neuberger, for you as well. we know simple airs on applications, this goes to have the bureaucracy and how we do all those for families not only the school but we need to care for the families and thinks in terms of what we are adding in bureaucracy. simple errors on applications are often because of improper payments. so it's not just intentional lack of reported if somebody makes a mistake that they don't fill in a box. they do something that simple but it creates that error that mr. lord is talking about. in some cases errors result in children in to get having to pay

for meals or they may not be paying for meals because of some simple error. so to help make the system work and ensure all children receive meals, whether they can some of the ways applications can be improved, the actual application? i know direct certification has been very successful. adequate better utilize the data matching to reduce errors so that we again from the families and are not penalizing a child because somebody didn't check a box speak with that's a great question. the first step is to make sure as you're relying on data from other programs as often as possible, so his future as possible go through the application process. that it was agassi right there but there won't be children are going to the application process so you need to have a deep a simple understandable form. the process can't be like other programs receiving an office with a professional eligibility worker can find a lot of

information and ask a lot of follow up question. the application goes on, families filled out on their own without assistance and they may not know you need to multiply weekly income by 4.3 figure to monthly income. they may not know who they're supposed to list in the household. it's clear people have trouble understanding the application and one indicator of that is in usda study they found out that the children who didn't get meals that they actually legitimacy were eligible for three quarters of the time that was because the family had understated their income on the application. these are families that bothered to apply but they didn't get to because they misundersmisunders tood what was expected. usda is just issued a brand-new revamped application that's much simpler and should be helpful in terms of eliciting correct information but they are embarking on an electronic application which is again very promising for making it easier or families and schools to get the right information. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator boozman.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. i guess the question i would have would be do we have districts that mr. lord can do we have districts that you acknowledge that doing a much better job than the average in regard to the problem? are the districts that we can learn from that we can then take their knowledge and push to other districts? >> sure. i'm sure there are syndicate but, unfortunately, our scope was confined to the 25 school districts we examined in detail. there's thousands of school districts across the nation but we did at the time or resources to visit all of those but we did get some important insights to some visiting the few we did examined in great detail. >> very good. >> i can add to the. with regard to direction

vacation, data from other programs, usda does rank state performance, they are states doing a fabulous job. west virginia and kansas are examples of those. michigan is another great example whether taking advantage of resources and made improvements and had a performance bonus that are not directly served by 100% dedicated they should be. that are great examples at the state and district level and usda is working on sharing those best practices so that others can learn. >> i'd like to just also acknowledged the importance of simplifying the application process. i was on a school board for seven years, and the paperwork on these type of things, poor special ed teachers work sword, the paperwork they endure, and the list goes on and on. again i would just like to throw my 2 cents and that that's

something that this doesn't cost any money. there's just something about government, and i'm part of government that we just add to that burden and whether it's the irs or this or anything else. so again i think that's a very, very important and hopefully we can work to remedy that. thank you, mr. chairman. >> we have senator gillibrand. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you, ranking member stabenow, for holding this hearing, an issue i care deeply about. i brought apples today so this is a half cup of apples i am really hoping we can get in every school lunch program across new york. lots of states have lots of great produce but this is a half cup, so for parents can we know this is not a lot of cash but i'm going to put these in the other room so staff can have them. since were talking about this

issue of school meals, on issue i want this committee to remember because i think it's so important that we shouldn't cut the standards. the chairman said that 46 46 states applied for whole-grain wafer stick those are the individual schools within 46 states but 90% of schools are complaint. we are doing quite well in meeting their nutrition standards and we set aside in the last bipartisan bill on this topic. i really want to make sure we don't have the requirements specific for the half cup of fruit and vegetable. 13 kids are obese into sketchy. what are we doing to? we need to make sure these kids understand they should be eating fruits and vegetables daily, that they are important part of how they grow how they learn how they are healthy. and the rate of obese adults in this country is again your statement about our military and having access to the men and women they need to be fit is a real concern. so i think it's important for us

to look at the dynamics of the fruit and vegetable requirements. every kind of standards for school meals i think the kids get the biggest hit. who suffered most financially who loses the most business, its farmers. want to talk about the former semi-state and the farmers and other states on this committee. so in kansas they produce highly developed which i know my kids love and that's a great great school stack to access the royal balance. and mississippi blueberries, kids love bloopers to kentucky blackberries. arkansas one of the most easy financials for kids to be. they love them. sweet potatoes we prefer them fried i guess yes, they are very good. cherry farmers in nebraska watermelon in south dakota teacher grows in georgia and applecross in new york. all of those farmers across the states represented by this committee would be harmed if we reduce the standard for that

half cup. if we cut fruits and vegetables from our school mealscome out onto the farmers suffer but i really believe that kids suffer. my children benefit so much a map access to fresh fruits and vegetables every day in every meal and 11 as a consequence. they know how good it is to be fresh fruits and vegetables during their meals. so i'm hoping that as we debate these issues going forward we can focus specifically on how we can meet standards. kind of both of your testifying specifically about how we can affect and change ayers i want to talk specifically about that first question. ms. neuberger, in your testimony you mentioned accounting and claiming errors often result from busy lunchrooms where students have little time to select, pay for any domestic many of you operational errors occur from the sale. should reconsider making the resource available components

assistance reduce errors and improve program integrity? >> thank you. certainly automated systems to make the process much easier. they did taken up front investment and so you need to balance the costs involved with us for publication in the air reduction for places that are using syngenta report that it is simple by the process tremendously for students and for the school nutrition staff who clearly have a lot of things that they are juggling in the lunchroom. so making a process simpler and more accurate is a great way to go. >> you mentioned the bit about the committee eligibility and that we need to eliminate the need for meal applications completely into limited much of the potential error. what can we do to lower the barrier by illegal districts and schools? what are your top recommendations to do that? >> so it's actually an option that's working very, very well right now. this is the furniture is available nationwide. it builds on options better than available for a long time that

essentially are unable to high poverty schools so that they don't have to go through the standard application process where is into they would be finding the future of don't qualify for free or reduced price meals but in essence the whole school qualifies. with committee eligibility they relied exclusively, they don't take applications. in usda's report they found is expected that the were few ayers in those schools. that's school districts are realize what that advantage that can be and what he sees because they don't have to spend time on paperwork, the savings they get on the administrative side can be reinvested in quality and in serving all students at no charge. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you. >> senator casey. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much and want to thank the ranking member for having this hearing as well. you are both good to have us to

gather on these issues. we are grateful. wanted to say first that we have two major concerns we talk about these programs and the food insecurity. one of course and we should start with the children, in pennsylvania we have not only a lot of children participating in both school lunch and school breakfast, fiscal year '14 over 1 million children in the school lunch program and about a little more than 336,000 in the school breakfast program. but at the same time with almost half a million children in poverty in our state. so this is of great urgency and concern that we get this right. i've always been a believer that these programs, just like a number of other programs or strategies, can help us not only ensure that more children have image of food security and get

the nutrition they need it can also help them learn of course. i've always believed that kids can learn more now they can earn more later. it's not just a run. is backed up on all the evidence. and the second major concern we have of course is not going to contribute programs work for kids but making sure they are administered and the way that is consistent with the expectations of taxpayers and use of taxpayer dollars efficiently. so i appreciate the fact that you're bringing to us not only kind of a diagnosis of where the problems are but also remedies for improving both programs. ms. neuberger, i will get to you in a moment on kind of a broader question but i want to ask you a specific question about the wic program, the women's infants and children program. your firm just released a

report with regard to new research linking prenatal and early childhood participation in wic with improved cognitive development as well as academic achievement. so kids whose moms are participating in the wic program while pregnant score higher on assessment, on medical development at hq than similar children whose mothers did not participate. so in light of this link between a program like that, the wic program and the cognitive development of the child might learn means earn connection can you walk through some of the benefits of wic and why we should focus on that is will? >> absolutely. wic provides nutrition assistance for pregnant women and very young children and those are critical times for brain development as we heard earlier. there's a large body of research that shows the wic is successful

in bringing participants very important for the improvements in health, improvements in their nutrition from what you're eating and eating healthier foods commit britain and breast-feeding rates, better connection to preventive care, higher immunization rates, and new findings on the link to cognitive development. so that's a panoply of voice which purchase but in the program can help low income families and at this critical time so they're off to a better start. start. >> i appreciate that and i think it errors repeating. speaking of things we should repeat, did you walk through the four questions again you had -- in other words, questions we should consider when we are analyzing these programs. i think they are very important to guidance. i just want to have you repeated because it helps to repeat things. >> absolutely. so does the proposal have a proven track record of reducing errors? that for all the research on the subject can be very helpful. will it maintain program access

for the most horrible children? of course when when you reducing air rage at what had the unintended consequence of making it harder for kids who qualify for the meals in need to get into and then is it administratively feasible? there isn't a one size fits all solution to we need to think about what works. forth, is a cost-effective? will the air reduction the cost involved in setting up the condition. not make such a cumbersome process so it is more difficult for schools to administer spent we may put those on the charts we have is a fun of us. in a very limited time i have, mr. wharton one question i may submit more to both of you for written questions. on this question of direct certification, do you think the increasing participation in community eligibility and direction of vacation would help reduce improper payments because i believe it could if applied

properly. we look at the direct certification for 23 households. without errors in a couple but in our discussion with usda officials and as ms. neuberger pointed out that was greatly relieved the administered burden at the school district level has potential for streamlining the entire process. is want to make sure the initial certification at the snap level under the program levels are being done correctly. but it is should point out the improper payment date in the s.n.a.p. program is much smaller than the improper payment rate in the school lunch program. that suggest that's a good way to go based on just that comparison alone. thank you, thank you for the 45 extra seconds. spent anytime that the gentlemen request additional -- well maybe not anytime. [laughter] thank you, senator casey. i want to thank the first day. thank you so much. the first panel is now

concluded. i'm sorry. oh, i'm sorry. >> senator thune, i apologize to you spirit well, thank you, mr. chairman. i know that i'm down here a long ways, children's end of the table. i appreciate you and ranking member stabenow holding this hearing today. as a do-gooder to reauthorize the child nutrition legislation, i think we need to take an objective and bipartisan critical assessment of the programs to make sure they're working in an efficient effective and accountable manner. for the people that they're intended to help. and i've series concerns about the error rates and the national school lunch and breakfast programs which for 2013 and 14 school year were 15.8% in -- and

23.6%. the improper payments total almost $2.7 billion for the 2013-2014 school year which is a staggering amount and no one in this room wants any child to go hungry. we all know there are legitimate needs for food assistance but we have programs of error rates that are $2.7 billion just for one school year. we simply have got to figure how to put this money to better use. there's another area i think needs attention this committee and that's eligibility standards for these programs. do the current standards resulting child nutrition assistance industry but it wisely to people who really need it the most. and to just a couple of questions if i might for this panel. i would love to hear from the second panel about the rigidity in the programs and the people who are actually out there on the front lines. i would love to get a sense for

the standards and just the lack of flexible event exist today in doing a better job of balancing nutritional offerings. so anyway, would love to you from the second panel about that subject i guess the question i have for you is what would you change about the eligibility requirements of the current child nutrition assistance contract of programs as they exist today? >> i think the important thing when you're talking about reducing errors in improper payments what i think all the great pacific important endeavor is to create a culture where a culture of compliance with the rules. i don't think the rules themselves are the problem. i think it's helping people understand of them and there are lots of different people involved in the system can families wonderfully of applications can schools when they are running programs states when they are administering them. so i think that kind of day in

and day out work is what's most important to reduce errors and reduce improper payments in the program. >> i would second that and also add it's important as a former president once famously stated it's important to not always trust but verify. i would add to that and said it's important to trust and verify any meaningful manner. we found through our work that the fabrication process could be strengthened in several important ways. i think that will serve to reduce improper payment rates and help drive that never done. although i should add in response to what ms. neuberger noted of the accounting side of equation, over 700 le and dollars, the improper payments estimate is due to simple accounting air at the school districts on the. i think that's an area that could be addressed as well through technology, better

training. there's some important ways that could drive that number down to enhance the operations of the program. >> so do you believe that more states and foreign local input on establishing eligibility requirements could be helpful in cutting down on some of the incorrect reimbursement rates? >> well, personally i think there's two ways to go editor you have to first explored the potential of data analytics and computer matched to help simplify the process can, make it more efficient. you can do that at the state agencies level without getting down to the school district level. but at the school district level again i think there needs to be greater awareness about how to fill out applications completely, the need to periodically do spot checks to what people are reporting exciting they have to approach

it in a multifaceted manner. centrally at the state agency level as well as school districts as ms. neuberger pointed out that they are not as well equipped to do rigorous verification. >> one of the things that does make the program easy to understand and administered is that they do have one set of rules that applies to across the country. that is an important simplification and source of the district and i think it's important to consult with the districts and states about what we work to help the programs run more smoothly and more accurately in their areas. but that's not the same as considering changing the eligibility rules or other program rules. >> do you think that categorical eligibility were school meals out to be eliminated? >> that's basically the source of tremendous at the -- simplification. that's what allows families who are already getting snap benefits what is a very rigorous eligibility determination.

income levels are going to be at or below the levels that are already set within the school meal programs. so basically that's a tremendous simplification right now. >> so if that's true then which one should be utilized the most? >> right now anyplace in the country is allowed to use data from the s.n.a.p. program of assistant pictures other categories like those who are homeless or in foster care i can be automatically eligible. medicaid is only available for use in seven states right now and so that's a potential there's untapped potential there were additional states could benefit from utilizing that data data. >> all right. my time has expired, mr. chairman. i think this panel and will look forward to testimony from the next one. thanks. >> senator stabenow? >> turn one. i just want to do a quick follow-up. mr. lord come to talk about how

as simple but also making sure we have a rigorous in our standard as well. you indicate the s.n.a.p. program has a smaller error rate which is does come one of the smallest and the federal government in terms of overall errors, and that there's there's a larger error rate and food program. so if we're going more in the direction of tying it to snap, community college of in which a state a lot of money in michigan and has been very effective isn't that what you're suggesting? looking at s.n.a.p. which is more rigorous oversight, lower error rate, and tying it to that might actually accomplish both goals of simplification and also tightening things up the? >> that's what i was suggesting and i was citing the omb figures on their estimated improper payments. there's some degree of imprecision with it but that alone suggests the snap, even

though there are some errors in the program, when you rely on that method to enroll people in the school meals -- >> is actually less because i think it is below 3% ever remember your it's the lowest error rate everything we have in agriculture programs. >> at around 3% and again the school, national school lunch programs 17.5% spent i think that's interesting to highlight. >> one last point. in our report, even though we did note if you are deemed categorically eligible for the program, programs such as snap under the current verification process they are excluded completely from verification. so our point was you may want to subject some of those applications to scrutiny. >> thanks very much. >> senator klobuchar? >> thank you, mr. chairman. we had a hearing on patent

reform which was quite excited or i would've been here earlier. thank you, chairman roberts and ranking member stabenow for holding this important hearing to review the child nutrition programs in advance of our work to reauthorize the program. i have worked hard in the last reauthorization to strengthen local wellness policies to update the nutrition standards for childcare centers and afterschool programs and also to ensure that vending machines and all the choices would not undercut good nutrition in the sale of junk food or i think well how important schools are to our kids nutrition. i'm proud of the work that we have done in the bill and if we know that we have seen some improvements but i think we also know that there are problems ahead if we don't continue this work to make sure that kids get the most nutritious meals possible when they're at school. the 2010 reauthorization of child nutrition programs

specified the usda conduct a review of you -- food items provide under the wic program release everything is based on the institute of medicine recommendation. some of argued that the review process should be expedited in certain circumstances. ms. neuberger, does that contribute i want to pace with scientific advances on the nutritional quality of fruits and vegetables? what can be done to improve the process? >> there's a review underway right now so i want to make sure you don't is aware of that and that is working as planned. the rule is the review has to happen at least every dangerous but it can happen more often than that if there's reason. so if they were important changes in dietary recommendations that might warrant a more frequent review. i think the rule that is in place makes sense. >> okay, very good. and it's been estimated by the journal of economics that nearly 20% of annual medical spending in the u.s. is obesity related.

how does this factor into the decision about how we reauthorize this bill? either of you can answer that. >> i think we talked earlier both programs from school meals and and i have tremendous benefits in terms of helping children achieve the health and health outcomes as those better preparing them for me. so they are critical investments particularly for low-income children who may not have access to adequate nutrition elsewhere, to help them develop properly stay healthy and be ready to learn at school. >> thank you. could you comment also on the child nutrition programs under the fiscal 2016 budget resolution that we just had been talking about on the floor ms. neuberger? >> broadly speaking would be very concerned about the consequences for low income families in that agreement. not specific to these programs but across the programs families

rely on when they are struggling to see kids or make ends meet. >> just one less thing back to the wic program that which is talked about. as you know the place a critically important role everybody the health of pregnant as well as young children. the continued success of the program is contingent upon sound cost control and understand that states that are giving flexibility on their own food with this and use the is a minimum standards and get some of the states leave lower cost products off the list. without dictating to states how do we incentivize the states to consider cost controls when determining approved food items? >> just because wic is a federal program most of the rules are federal. there are certain areas where there state flexibility. states have a built in incentive to contain costs in china because they get a limited amount. the more efficiently they can

use that money the more people they can serve and that's been very motivating because it's a very cost effective program. wic cost of increased at about half the rate of inflation over time your very sound investment and state simply an important part in debt. to the way the program is structured contribute to the incentive structure. >> thank you very much. mr. lord, did you want to add anything to any of these questions? >> not on the wic, no. thank you. >> thank you very much. i'm glad you're here. it's are important topic and as i said alaska bill that senator stabenow was involved in some kind of senator roberts on the committee and a leading figure and i think was very important and we've made great strides and we need to continue improvement in the nutrition standards. thank you to both of you. >> senator tillis. >> thank you, mr. chair. ms. neuberger, or mr. lord, i want to look back at the

program. i'm from north carolina. i was speaker of the house down there, worked a lot with the there is school system. we have one in 15 in north carolina and they seem to be both for and against the third attrition program in terms of if you like the outcome, but they did like the overhead for the didn't necessarily like how the regulations required of them to implement it, that the level of details involved. as their been any work done on time to figure out how we can come if we're measuring outcomes, that's a question i have for you mr. lord. i know you're going to the gao going through with the verification process making sure that people who are entitled to it did come and those who don't, don't. but what about the more fundamental question of the baseline when this program started, the year-over-year improvement in outcomes which at the end of the day of his children's health and making sure that they are fed. are we measuring those in a scientific way and identifying best practices?

>> i think ms. neuberger is more well versed on that but for the verification process that was one of our suggestions the usda collecting, recently started collecting a lot of good information on the for cause verification process but they mix it together with other reporting. so it's unclear to us what the outcomes of all their efforts to conduct for cause their vacations. those are reviews of questionable applications. so lease in the one area i'm very familiar with. there's broad agreement they need to do better job and look at outcome measures in that area. that's dedication related and perhaps ms. neuberger can come of the broader nutritional outcomes. >> bears in quite a lot of research on the positive

benefits of these programs come in particular, for examples children to eat breakfast at the school have been shown to have fewer academic issues, plus absence and tardiness and better performance at school. so that's a clear area as a strong tie between participating in the new programs and kind of educational outcomes we would like to see in school. >> oneschool. >> one question i have compiled a note if it's anecdotal or something that we need to look more at, you are the stories of come on the going to put a vegetable because i was naked segment of agriculture negligible as a vegetable for whatever reason kids don't like. they are concerned they are satisfying the letter of the regulations but along the coast into the trash to delete any data to give that young anecdote or maybe committee anecdotes were maybe committee something osha to put on the plate to make sure that young persons belly is full and better using the things were putting on their plate? >> i hope that you ask the

question in the second panel. >> i just don't know if i will be here to ask that. >> there is research on the extent to which children are eating the meal took this is not an area i focus on. if some expertise that it has shown there's less waste under the new rules and it was previously entered certainly always room for improvement but it's important to note that we are moving in the right direction in terms of figure how to get kids to eat spent i think that's one of the concerns expressed by a lot of people i met with some members of the school board, association superintendents association. that seems to be a concern that they have expressed and i think it's an area we just need to look at. i hope i'm here so i can brag will put on our farm fiscal initiatives in north carolina because we've been very aggressive in that area and i think it's very beneficial. we need to do more of it. convinced this gives brussels sprouts are actually pretty good

i will hold and allow to move to the next them in reserve my questions for the panel. thank you. >> senator tillis i've been known to eat at brussels sprouts or two but always with cheese on it. [laughter] >> mine is with bacon spent well, with bacon and cheese it might work out except i have problems with a cheese, too, but that's a whole nother -- we don't want to go there at this particular time. senator heitkamp? >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for this important hearing, making sure children have every opportunity -- this is a good place to start when we're talking about child nutrition and basically giving them the opportunity to go -- grow up healthy and learn throughout the day. nutrition standards set in the health and hungry kids act i think it's an important first step. to help creating a healthier and more prepared next generation.

but we should also make sure that the schools have the tools they need to provide healthy meals. in north dakota 100% of our schools i'm proud to say i'm meeting the standards. a couple of months ago on the one school still have asked for a waiver on whole-grain pasta requirements of us were incredible in a state that's a very high rate problems as relates to obesity. however the pew study found that 74% of north dakota schools still need at least one piece of school equipment, kitchen equipment under to meet the standards. senator collins and i've introduced a bill to help schools purchase new equipment or iron and provide them with the technical assistance on food preparation a meeting the standards. just want to put a plug-in for the school food modernization act which i think will give the tools that the many of our people who serve our children every day, and by that i mean literally and figuratively, the

equipment and the tools that they need this is especially important in rural schools or the school district are already strapped for you have a large population of a small population but a huge need for upgrading. i've said it many times for my mom was a lunch lady so i am especially partial to the school lunch program. i know what that meant. i know what she did every day to try and put nutritious and good food on the table and i also knew that there were kids that i went to school with what that maven the only meal that they got all day. so she took that responsibility seriously. we've been talking a lot mr. lord a program integrity and making sure people who shouldn't be participating in the program are not. obviously, the surfer dude hit the news last year in a big way but ms. neuberger noted that one in four applications were denied despite after household

circumstance. we are wondering how come as we close the loophole and make sure we don't have brought into stroke and compact we make sure more kids get into this program who actually need the nutritious meals, who actually need that backpack going on that we can? >> i think you need to raise awareness and perhaps the additional outrage at the school district level. i think there is a bit of what is at the program but perhaps there isn't. part of your outreach program for the program, you want to be sure those who are deserving are in the program. >> so we don't outreach to come am looking for a new solution. spin that's probably in my humble opinion senator, that's something the next panel could probably address. they are working at the local of the and have a good perspective on the i sort of have a global view. >> but i think you take my point

seriously which is way of fraud but we also have a lot of kids who go hungry and that's got to be part of this discussion. ms. neuberger, can you suggest any ideas on how we can expand awareness or how we can expand participation for children who go hungry? >> sure. nowhere is this really an important part of the making the program accessible making sure they stay that way. we have focused quite a lot on the ways that you can improve accuracy and make sure the programs are working as they should. it's important at every step of the way they are to make sure they are not barriers in the way for families who need the benefits. that balance is in accord with making sure the programs remain available to students. some the produce we talked about earlier, relying on data from other programs community of developer vision for high poverty schools can serve meals and no charge to all students are ways to make it easier for low-income families to get those benefits. >> thank you. yield the rest of my time. >> thank you senator.

senator brown and senator bennet have question for the next do something unless i'm mistaken this concludes the contributions from the first benefit thank you so much for coming. thank you for your very valuable testimony. if we could have the second panel please come forward. [inaudible conversations]

>> i think in the interest of time we are going to introduce all of the witnesses, each one of course it deserves their timely moment of fleeting fame before the committee, but we would like to welcome mr. brian riendeau. he joins us today from louisville kentucky, where he is the executive director at dare to care food bank. earlier in his career mr. riendeau also led by government and committee affairs for the kfc corporation. i think everybody understands who that is answered as a legislative assistant for senator majority leader -- let's see, that would be mitch

mcconnell, isn't it? >> i can't remember spent can't remember? thank you. we look forward to your testimony. mr. richard goff of the office of child nutrition on west virginia and their department of education is next. mr. goff joins joins us today on the other west virginia department of education what he has served as executive director of the office of child nutrition back since 2005. he is 26 years of experience with the west virginia department of education completing work with a child and adult care food program. in his current role the overseas development of policies and programs administration related to all child nutrition programs. welcome. i look forward to your testimony and earnings. business in the jones of the only thing unified school district to 33. a special happy to introduce to the committee misjudges serve as a business management coordinator for food service at

the l.a. the public schools in kansas. she has worked for the only the public school food service for 20 years. started in 17 as i recall. secretly served as the public policy and legislation committee chair in the school nutrition association of kansas and has also served as vice president and president. i certain look forward to your customers and your insight. doctor sandra pacing -- doctor sandra gesink come as president of the american academy of pediatrics, kirtley serves as president and hails from wilmington delaware. the doctor has focused her career on preventing and treating obesity in children. she is a pediatrician served as the director of the pediatric obesity initiative.

the doctor again her medical career at the vanderbilt school of medicine as one of only 12 women in her graduating class. thank you for being here today. i look forward to all of your testimony. we will start with you, mr. riendeau. >> thank you, chairman roberts ranking member stabenow commend the members of the committee. thank you for inviting me here today. i'm honored to represent feeding america's network of 200 food banks that serve more than 46 million people in need. ..