2nd special order to takata where they were to come with further information about their propellant mix. what we would like to know is what you have been given why days the specific use of the max and the replacement part and a new vehicles? >> i can provide as much information as you like. what you've identified is what triggered the daily penalty that started because we basically had 2.4 million documents dumped on with all the information and try to understand where the meaningful pieces were. so we have some of the meaningful pieces now identified and we can certainly bring as was provided. >> are you satisfied with the information takata has reported two to you? >> we work our way through the

information. they have been open about testing data about the information you ask about was millions and millions of pages grown from 2.4 and we are making our way through that. >> are they being forthcoming and bring clarity to that? we want to know what the mix the propellant mix. are they satisfying the questions consumers will have when they want to know the component in their vehicle to make the vehicles save now asked loads. it causes injury and the question is have they arrived at something that is going to make certain indeed it is safe? >> i would say they will now. that's part of the consent order to provide the information. >> so you are satisfied. if you got someone from your

team provide a summary so we will have that for the record, that would be helpful for future hearings on legislation. also, let me go to the point that was made, back to the december hearing we had that ammonium nitrate once used as propellant in the 1990s. so what we would like to know, have you all found any evidence of raptures that occurred in the 90s -- not does nhtsa have any insight as to why not? >> i will go back and make sure that's part of the information we provide you. what's important about the consent or as we are now on the drivers seat to direct the testing. looking historically and how that is what we need to do now. >> we would love to have that if they follow one if you will as to what occurred in the 90s as you go back into a revisit of

the information you have that would be helpful. one last thing you mention this to auto manufacturers in chairman upton mentioned they have been doing their part in meeting minutes. i want to know if you are satisfied with how the dealers are competent dated for this. if they are being made whole because if everyone is taking their car in for the replacement, that's a lot of loaner cars, a lot of man-hours. would you speak to that? >> i suggest you ask the individuals on the next panel because we would be focused only if it interferes with the recall. >> okay we are going to ask the next panel back, but wanted your inside also. i yelled back. >> the generally the heels back. the gentleman from massachusetts five minutes for questions please. >> thank you. i appreciate your service to the

country and your willingness to testify today. i want to touch base with you a little bit. you've heard my colleagues mentioned the vehicle safety improvement act. i want to touch on not and particularly the need for safety upgrades for used cars. used cars in march and april of this year reached more than 3 million cars sold for each month the purchasers have now face blue post when it comes to auto safety. most are not known. the safety improvement act of take two concrete steps towards making our call markets safer. the bill would require the buyer's guide to include information about a vehicle's history of damage. the bill would also prohibit dealers selling or leasing used vehicles subject to a recall until the dealer has repaired the defects. dr. rosekind, i'm concerned

consumers have an implicit perception that used cars are safe and free of defect and dealers have made all necessary repairs. is that true about why can you shine on the problem? >> this is part of what you are describing and i guess i can imagine you had so a new car if you need there is a defect involved not to have it fixed before you put it in somebody's hands seems like we don't have the system working properly. >> i would agree. a purchaser of a used car combine information through the vehicle title information system. that information is available only if the purchaser knows her to find that and pays the fee. do you agree purchasers of these cars can benefit to knowing a used car they intend to purchase has been previously jump salvage or marked as a total loss? >> and information to help determine the safety will be useful to the consumer.

>> the vehicle safety improvement act requires information from the history report to be made available to the national motor vehicle system. you think that is a smart permission to go forward? >> every piece of safety information is helpful. finally subject to recall some of the dealer makes necessary repairs, but the same regulation does not apply to used cars which means used cars may be sold to consumers with unrepaired effects. the average recall completion rate 75% being in a full 25% of all recalled cars are not repaired. so i takata airbag recall completion rate has been much, much lower. the cars not been repaired because the owner of the vehicle doesn't know anything about the recall. what efforts have strewn to undertaken to increase awareness

of used car buyers and lassies about potential safety defects and what obstacles does nhtsa face in getting information to consumers? >> i don't think there's any confusion this is a huge part of the system. finding defects is great but if you don't get them fixed it doesn't matter. we held at the end of april an event called retooling recalls asking the industry for new ideas and has set the standard is 100% target to get recalls done. >> to agree the privation of the improvement act that prohibits the sale of cars into any defect remedy that would increase completion rates? >> absolutely. >> what to make drivers of used cars safer? >> absolutely. i would say from our event in april there is a great list of possible things done them a look at all of them. we had manufacturers come in and talk about new strategies and new things that only one

manufacturer was doing. >> how can this committee get the information out. >> frankly the pro-american actor of the most critical things as far as our authorities and directly the budget allows us not just people that the authority and opportunities. >> did i hear you say earlier that you had a staff working on the recall of 34 million vehicles in the same staff working on 1200 other recalls? >> there are 51 in the office of investigations. the 80,000 complaints come in and are handling the recall. >> thank you. ideal that. >> the gentleman meals back and recognizes the gentleman from new jersey for five questions,

please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. dr. rosekind, i went online regarding my own situation and the website is safercar.gov. >> spell that out for the public. >> safercar.gov. >> and a half on how many millions of vin numbers? >> the total number i can tell you specifically right now. we were up 30.4 million vehicles. >> i know you are working as quickly as you can, but at the moment not only of the vin members are on that site. i was just lucky that mine had her to come out. you're informing the american people to this committee hearing being televised across the country at the american people should go on the website

frequently. >> weekly. >> can you estimate as to when you might have all of the numbers up on the site? i know that's a difficult question and just asking is there a timeframe that you think you might be able to have? >> we have seven out of 11 in the manufacturers are working quickly. i would hope in the next two weeks edition of the complete data set. >> in the next two weeks. >> that is the plan. >> though i didn't ask this because the dealer was very cooperative. he said he thought he would have a new airbag within one week to four weeks and did i need a loaner car. but i didn't think to ask should the american people ask is this for the driver or for the passenger and i have no idea at the moment and perhaps i

should ask whether my personal situation of the driver or passenger. in some situations it is both. could you enlighten the committee on that aspect of all of this? >> safercar.gov will tell you what the recall is for specifically. driver, passenger, both. you don't have to rely on the dealer to tell you. >> and are there situations where there will be the need for a new airbag for both the driver and passenger in the same automobile? >> that could be. >> to the auto manufacturers themselves have the responsibility i trust to inform those who have purchased their automobiles that this potential defects? >> they make the information

through safercar.gov. they provide if they make and model and vin numbers as well as most provide on their own website as well. >> and i've been mailing letters to those who own the vehicles? yes. there are recall letters officially labeled for people to know specifically what his recall. >> and do you know dr. rosekind how many letters have gone out so far? >> i would have to look into and get back to you. >> "the wall street journal" says there may be a place for fact yours that could lead to all of this benefactors include damaged or problematic template or components positioning of the inflator in airbag system and vehicles, prolonged exposure to heat coming humidity and manufacturing variability. are you not analyzing the new study from the german as to whether what they suggest may be true? >> we are both aware of that report and looking at that.

plus multiple folks doing testing. you would hear from a coalition. automakers are doing their own. consent order gives access to all of the data. you just highlighted why this is so difficult. over 10 different configurations of the later across the different makes and models as part of the problem trying to figure with the root causes. >> part of this is using bat wing shaped wafers and side airbags. would you explain to the american people what that means? >> that has to do with the shape or design of the propellant container and that is a perfect example of the design configurations and over 10 different inflators and that is part of the problem. but not other manufacturers. >> thank you. you've been very helpful. let me say about four to the testimony of the second panel in mr. chairman i yield back the

balance of my time. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from california for five minutes please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you dr. rosekind for all of your service in answering our questions today not only for us but the people we represent throughout the country. i will start off talking about your administration to get an understanding of how well we are not doing to make sure you have the resources to protect the american public or protect the american public. one estimate in 2014 at 253 million which is in a 4 million more than 2013. nhtsa's budget has remained relatively flat over the past three years. fiscal year 2016 budget appropriation of 837 million continues the trend coming up

more than 70 million short of the request. do you believe the funding for nhtsa as for nhtsa is parted to do more with less culture resulted from sequestration has made it harder for the administration to do is job of keeping unsafe vehicles off the roads? >> there is no question for nhtsa is arresting risk every day that the budget personnel issues are helping create more risk for us. i've identified what we've done and will continue to do everything internally process wise, procedurally that we can to be more effective. at some point a people to look at 80,000 complaints from 45,000 the year before. now people can get the job done. >> i constantly hear i've been elected to office at various levels and i constantly hear my colleagues talk about fiscal

conservative myth and talk about how government is to operate more like a business. i don't know too many businesses that activate human beings trying to handle 80000 moving parts of issues and constituents. that is not efficiency. that is delinquency to be honest. not to link when i'm new, but as the appropriators. the need to do a better job of protecting the american public or help you do your job. the author says defect investigation responsible for screening and reviewing consumer replant and conduct an investigation of the possible defects and 51 full-time staff in march 2014 down from 64 in 2002. nhtsa budget request includes a request for fun to more than double the number of personnel.

dr. rosekind, is that 837 million approved for the 2016 fiscal year sufficient for increasing the number of personnel? >> no. that basically flat lands where we are today. to inflate that appropriately, the 40,000 number was last year. that number is 80,000 complaints coming in. >> that as we get to 80000. thank you. is clear additional funding sources will be critical to ensuring the administration can keep drivers and passengers safe. that is why in addition to the appropriations specifically h.r. 1181 would authorize the vehicle safety user fee or the fee would be paid by manufacturers reach u.s. vehicles certified to be -- to meet federal safety standards. beginning at $3 per vehicle and

increasing annually to $9 per vehicle. this could potentially generate tens of millions of dollars for nhtsa to spend specifically on safety. dr. rosekind, do you think nhtsa would find efficient and effective ways raised by such consumer safety? >> no question. if anything it's all about the safety mission. for the agency and for me. you give more resources and we would give my safety. >> once again, looking at the numbers, the number of vehicles is growing correct? fortunately and unfortunately what we have better systems of identifying it effect that means we are much more aware of how many more in this case million of people need to be notified and coordinated way so we can get them in safer place with the product identified as being defect is correct?

>> no question. we want to look to a more proactive safety culture. small numbers wouldn't be where we are today. >> americans taken for granted we have the systems. unfortunately too many americans ignore the idea congress is not doing his job so they are safe. thank you very much. >> the chair thanks the gentleman. the gentleman from kentucky, mr. guthrie for five minutes. >> thank you for being here today. we appreciate it. you mentioned talking about going and putting in your vin number from seven of the leading manufacturers or is there a timeline you will have the other four? >> i was asked earlier. our plan is to have that in two weeks if not sooner. not just getting the numbers but checking the accuracy. >> that is the process.

okay. takata suggested a particular make and model may be contributing to the defects. has nhtsa condescend conclusion with that? >> that is part of the problem. they are not just 10 plus different designs of the inflators are looking at different makes and models. there are some inflators that is not ruptured. the same inflator might rupture. when you think about the different variations you have to look for the challenge right now is the root cause. >> earlier in my life is a certified quality engineer. it seems like it difficult to re-create the problem. you can't figure out exactly the cause. vehicles last a lot longer than they used to. your tires every so many passing. is there any manufacturer of vehicle that says routine maintenance on airbags?

>> that's a very good question. i don't believe so but i'll get a specific answer for you. right now the average vehicle is in service for 11.4 years. many only go to 10 are surpassed by vehicles on the road now. >> obviously people who buy a vehicle expect their back to last. there is not a routine maintenance. it's one of those things to check your airbag. i have a question. since december 3rd the hearing in 2014, how many additional fatalities and injuries, you may have mentioned that, but i don't know for her that when you are speaking. >> six worldwide people have lost their lives at least 100 injured. >> also, testified in december you were going to hire an expert in airbag production within a week of the last hearing.

has that taken place? >> yes, it has. we have four people on staff but no airbags quite well and now we have particular expertise in the areas on staff. >> at a part of the eight you are describing looking at the other? >> with three first-half people as well as consultants outside added in three first-half people are part of the eight. >> so has there ever been in airbag consultant before? >> as individuals pick specifically because the expertise on the repellent side. if you think about designing the elements we're focused on the chemistry. >> i appreciate you being here. we are all trying to find an answer because even since december 6th and hundreds of injuries and we need to get to the bottom of it. thank you for being here today. i yield back.

>> the chair recognizes the gentlelady from new york. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. dr. rosekind, thank you for your testimony today. they first asked the recall in november 2014. takata responded by questioning nhtsa's authority to order the company to undertake the national recall at a december hearing by the subcommittee and takata admitted it was unwarranted. i should note many auto manufacturers extended the recall anyway. nearly six months to the day since the last hearing we are in a much different place. but also six months behind where we should be in getting this interest airbags out of our cars. dr. rosekind common today's

world our cars have an average lifetime 11 years on the road and frequently spend time in all corners of the country during their lifetime. given the realities of the world with it today, is it possible for nhtsa to guarantee of regional recall will be sufficient? >> our approach has been my approach has been to make sure we focus on national recall of the most part of the challenge previously was takata's denial there is a defect in even though manufacturers stepped up there was a wide range of patchwork basically of service campaigns and recalls all over the place. may 19th, nhtsa took the driver's seat in the coordinated revenue will change all of that. >> yeah, i don't exhibit there. h.r. 1181 would've been in a the recall is by making clear all safety recalls and replacement

parts must be carried out on a national basis. the bill will also allow nhtsa to prioritize certain parts of the country with the quantity of replacement parts limited. in the past nhtsa has supported recalls. early in his hearing you said from your dad recalls are national. can i then assume you support this provision of the vehicle safety act? >> we are interested in safety for everybody. we start with the national recall. >> very well. takata's written testimony explains the recall will be regional and nhtsa will have to order takata to expand the recalls nationally. will you commit to extending all of them nationally now? >> expenditures and to watch people's response to does too.

those two passenger inflators are the most problematic and said that basically is trying to ensure people at the highest risk get theirs fixed as quickly as possible. it is expected those will be national. >> so that means we're looking to have a national recall now? >> yes with a very specific focus to make sure we get the high-risk people covered as quickly as possible. >> the recall began a safety improvement campaigns, the regional recalls that certain parts of the country with high absolute humidity. as nhtsa and takata and car manufacturers learn more about the defect and what occurred outside the areas, the automakers each responded differently. some extend recalls two additional states, others nationally and the information for consumers is hard to find. it seems to me the regional

recall in the case only added consumer confusion. i believe contact dean from the start would allow prioritization of placemat parser in most vulnerable geographic area first whatever life and consumer confusion in this case. dr. rosekind do you agree the rollout of recalls could have been handed batter from the beginning? >> what i will do is focus i think a month or so being in the chair. i can speak to the last five months we are going after national recalls the days to make sure every american gets a safe airbag in their vehicle. >> i want to make sure we learn from this lesson. >> absolutely. >> it is very interesting we are trying to reorganize how we do things and we know from the outset and we can administer best practices going forward.

>> absolutely. >> very well. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from the high humidity city of houston, texas. five minutes for your questions please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, dr. rosekind. a victim of a takata airbag is same as carlos salinas. he was 35 years old. lived in spring texas, went to spring high school. worked with his brothers that progress has pumps. peabody used 2002 honda accord, was involved in a minor crash on january 18th of this year. has airbag deployed them is supposed to save his life and took his life.

he left behind a wife nicole and three kids. gavin alyssa and angelina. his vehicle at a recall put out in 2011. he bought the car in 2014. he had no clue the vehicle may be defect is. he fell through the cracks. my question is how can nhtsa make sure -- >> thank you for a county map. everyone at nhtsa could give you a number appeared in 2013 or 32719 lives lost on the roadways. we know the exact number because you gave the 60th of the lost their lives worldwide you give a name and face one of the dems. i think the concerns raised here earlier is not a person who had a used car that had a recall notice now. so people are buying used cars

are renting cars that have defects that are not being fixed beforehand. .. this allows me to highlight of the consent order that has been signed that will allow us to

direct testing. previously that was almost exclusively on root cause now we have the ability to make sure the testing goes to the adequacy to the question which is a variety of possible solutions and we need to make sure the testing goes on to examine those to make sure the replacements will be effective long-term. >> are there others that need different vehicles? >> we do not know the root cause at this point. on the other hand we do know there are plenty that are functioning successfully. in 2013, 611000 crashes with airbags deployed so we know they can function and we know they are even different versions of the kind that are not rupturing so there are other examples that can't be pursued to understand the change now. as to make final >> final question about the fatigue of the recall.

and this past year there was some sort of defect and sensor. my question is do you think there is a recall fatigue and if i may say i'm tired of this. i'm driving my car is fine. how can we fight the recall fatigue? >> it exists and we held an events one to readjust 75% may be good at it was 100% completion and then it is fantastic to see the number of inspectors coming up in creative ways. some are taking their teams to help them sell vehicles and applying them to the recall so they have special hours and weekends and things for the kids. investigators are going to locate these people. a whole list of new ideas and we are going to find a way to make sure everybody has access to

those ideas and are following up to take action. >> thank you, yield back. >> five minutes for questions please. >> first let me thank you for holding today's hearing. i think this is a very important hearing and hopefully we can get good information into the record that can have a bearing directly on the issue that we are talking about. this is an important issue. i am somewhat surprised to learn the airbags now functions have been linked to areas of high humidity. if i didn't know that i didn't fully appreciate it until recently. i represent a district in north carolina maybe not as humid as the districts in texas but we are indeed a region that is very humid from time to time.

though north carolina is outside the humidity area one of these now functions occurred in my state causing me a great deal of worry about the safety and efficacy of airbags in a fractured and the potential for the constituents to be seriously harmed or even worse. i also have concerned about the practical impact of this would have on the rental car market and so i will be concentrating on the suspects during my question time today. the u.s. rental market is huge. we acknowledge that. one study estimates there were 2.1 million roll rollcall since surfaced last year. however, despite the scale of the market for federal law doesn't require the rental car companies before renting them to consumer survey company could rent a car subject to the recall without an airbag that is yet to be replaced.

so again thank you for your testimony. do you believe rental car companies should be prohibited from renting the car unless all defects have been repaired click >> if the defect has been identified used cars should be fixed before they are allowed to put the keys into consumers hands. >> that is as clear as it can be. do you think most consumers won't assume that a rental car would be more than their own vehicle is a safe vehicle? >> we can talk about this on safer car .gov. probably nobody that buys one one will ever do that and that is a gap that we have to fill. >> i drive a 199-5200 and a ford explorer and all of the rental cars either and are much better than my personal vehicles. do you think that consumers have a right to free loaner cars

while their cars are getting repaired regardless of his consumers are getting a lot of cars should there be a requirement that the loaders themselves before being loaned have no outstanding recall? >> thank you for raising that question. if there is a concern about the inflator we should talk to the dealer or manufacturer about a rental car. >> it would prohibit a rental car that receives a notification about any defect or noncompliance with the motor vehicle safety standards to sell the vehicle unless the defect is remedied. the doctor has supported a similar legislation that prohibits rental car companies from renting vehicles subsequent

to the recall unless it is remedied. as the new administrator do you continue to support this type of legislation? >> the secretary has done that as well which specifically has both used car and rental car defect issues covered that way. >> thank you for the manner in which you responded. >> thank you very much. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from florida for questions. >> it's my opinion that the rupture may have been -- it's my understanding anyway that it may have been caused by the humidity. what is the minimum exposure appeared kobe for the inflator is considered to be at risk if you have an opinion as to whether it was caused by the

high humidity i would like to hear it as well. >> i would say i would be cautious about saying probable cause at this point but to your question there is data that shows humanity because of the moisture can have an effect on the inflator and we could get into the chemistry that the main question is what we have seen in the data somewhere between seven and a half to 12.3 years which is where we can see that rupture. >> the next question i understand they are helping prioritize the most urgently needed placement to various parts of the country that need it the most. they would help manage a finite supply and ensure that the consumers are most in danger of protecting quickly. but this approach doesn't appear to match with the rollout that grabbed headlines by covering 34 million vehicles.

it is unclear whether they can now gain replacement parts and if not at what point can they obtain replacement parts in the future i would like you to answer that question. we replacement parts are available but maybe not in new jersey or other parts of the country. and again are there enough replacement parts available, period? >> first i would say it's going to let them know if they are checking out and they say they need to call the dealer because they will tell them if the purpose available. part is available. in the second part there is no question one of the issues we have in a coordinated remedy program the coordinated remedy program is to make sure sufficient supply is available across the country. >> thank you very much representative clark. >> the gentleman from indiana

five minutes for questions please. >> i have to say when you testified they were working hard and stand up to testing facilities for your own so you can verify the work that they are doing. it was in the written testimony. can you give a status update on the validation activities, and is there a new testing facility for these and can you share with us what is happening in that progress? >> thank you for asking about that because what they did is arrange to have the data available to us. but this now provides another resource to actually verify the testing and any testing. whether it's the independent coalition we will be able to look at all of that. we have a facility that allows us to do some testing that because of that rupture we've got to blow them up and have been rupture.

so they are helping us do that and we basically have a plan or outline so as of may 19, the plan is underway. under way. how many have been tested by this point i can't say but we have our own testing being done by outside laboratories. >> so because it required a different kind of testing you are now using an applied tester? >> correct. >> do you have any idea how long the testing has been going on and how it is going? >> i know the contract was signed a while ago and the most important thing was to get a plan which i tried to emphasize we don't just look at the root cause but we also try to focus on the remedy so i can give you information about when it was signed with the plan is and that should tell you what the calendar expectations are as well. >> you've mentioned several times in the testimony that we may never know the root cause. as of so the problems associated

have been persistent for years and it feels as though we are not making any progress in determining the root cause. so given that how will we know how will we satisfy if you have enough data to determine the adequacy of the remedy if we don't know the original cause? that was a year investigation into the year investigation into some people would question whether it was ever discovered. so that's required of them coming up with a solution without fully knowing the root cause which was identifying all of the planes engineering a solution and now they are fighting again very quickly. between those two things there's an opportunity without root cause to still get a solution. >> taking the experience for how

that would be the proposal that he would use going forward. >> yes and let me just add because i haven't had a chance you raised the core question that we've been asking since i've been here in january which is how long do you wait. so we couldn't wait a year to come up with an answer. so that is part of why we have pushed to take the drivers seat to get a focus on the remedy and a supply in all and all the other factors that will make a difference. >> thank you for the work on this. we can't wait to see what encouraged your persistence and fighting for this. >> mr. kinsey five minutes for questions please. >> thank you for being here and answering questions. most have been asked i just have a couple so i probably won't take all of my five minutes. but you talk about the coordinated remedy program. what's going to be involved and

when will you have to plan for acting as a central coordinator for the coordinated remedy program? >> that gives me a chance to focus on the endgame. i keep talking about them sitting in the drivers seat because of of the toll this point it was clear how this was going to happen and so now we have a plan to be meeting with the manufacturers and we will be meeting with suppliers and have joint meetings and the intent once the plan is together is to have a joint meeting for the transparency. we are hoping for that to occur in the early fall. is this something that you will probably need to contract out? >> right now there is an internal team that is overseeing this so i have people from the engineering group dealing with the legal enforcement issues and communications. so, those three groups have come

together to provide oversight. >> do you believe they have enough expertise to carry out this process enough recall and logistics expertise cracks >> at this point yes and i think that during our development of the future plan if we find other resources that are needed i would be the first one to let everybody know to make sure that we get this done right. >> events are pretty much all the questions i have so with that i will yield back with the three minutes remaining. >> would you yield your remaining time jimmy? >> thanks thank the gentleman for that. >> you are probably aware of the rules committee we did the rules for the transportation bill that will be on the floor either this week or next week. so recognizing we were having this hearing today i asked the subcommittee of the transportation subcommittee in

appropriations if they would've shared the would share the spending plan submitted to the subcommittee by ntsa to submit a spending plan to the appropriations committee or appropriations subcommittee as they do their work and build the appropriation bills. so i have to say what i would give them is pretty sparse. i'm going to use the benefit of the doubt and if you would like to provide me with the spending plan that you provided to the appropriation subcommittee, i would be happy to review it with you if you would like. the chairman made reference to the fact that we need to make sure the appropriations are in line. ms. schakowsky talked about that so ironic that available to you if it is as rich and that's

fine. if you think there is a different difference spending plan that i should be looking at i will be happy to do that and follow-up follow up with you and i do want to stress you've always been good about keeping me as the chairman informed about what you're doing and for that i'm grateful and filibustering just a little bit because he's on his way here so that we just ask -- >> i want to thank you for that opportunity. when the president's budget has much detail -- >> i have to interrupt you there. the president's budget never get a single vote. no one would even offer the president's budget up for a vote this year. so that is -- and it wasn't unique to the administration when i was here in the majority earlier frequently that wouldn't pass on the floor of the house or the senate so if they send up

a wish list that balances never and it's got everything funded down to the level that would be great if we lifted a world of unlimited resources but you are the administrator. sometimes you have to prioritize spending and that is what we are looking for you to do and appropriately but i will give you the benefit of the doubt. it looks pretty thing to me. i would just welcome the chance to go through the plan with you. and on the last bipartisan basis the committee requested the government accountability office would review the internal structure and procedures to assess the agency's ability to keep pace with advancements in vehicle technologies at the committee's hearing in december that deputy administrator connected to cooperating in the

government accountability's officers review. will you reaffirm his commitment to cooperate in this review lacks >> absolutely. >> i appreciate that very much. back at this point we will have to forgo questions and i apologize. we will get his questions to you in writing and any member of the committee may have further questions but seeing no further members to have questions i do want to thank the administrator for being here today. this will conclude the first panel and we will take a brief recess to set up the second panel. thank you sir.

>> thank you everyone for their patience and taking time to be here today. we will move into the second panel for today's hearing we are going to follow the same format as the first. each witness will be given five minutes to summarize their opening statement followed by questions from the members. we want to welcome the following witnesses mr. kennedy the executive vice president of the north america. mr. david kelly project director independent testing coalition. president and ceo of the alliance of automobile manufacturers and the chief executive officer of global automakers. you're recognized for five minutes for your opening statement please. >> ranking member and

distinguished members of the subcommittee, i am honored to be here on behalf of our employees throughout the united states. safety is the core of who we are and what we do. we are proud of the airbags saved thousands of lives and saving lives and accidents. it's unacceptable to us for even one of our products to fail to perform as intended. we deeply regret each instance of someone has been injured or killed. we are committed to doing everything in our power to address the safety concerns raised by airbag ruptures. our chairman has made that commitment personally to the administrator. so let me tell you what we are doing. after months of testing and extensive analysis, we agreed to take broad actions in conjunction with automakers to

respond to your concern and those of the public. we have dramatically expanded national recalls that go well beyond what is suggested by the science and testing. most of the ruptures on the road and all of the fatalities in the u.s. have involved older driver airbag inflators with backswing shaped propellers. they were originally subjected to previous recalls. and most of those have incurred in the recent country with high heat and absolute humidity. nevertheless, we are proposing expanded national recalls to replace all of these inflators from the start of production through the end of production and any vehicle registered anywhere in the united states. the recommended recalls will proceed in stages.

they will see producing. there is then far fewer field raptors involving passenger airbags and also contemplates expanded recalls. the recall for the other inflators will cover specific vehicle models. with the potential to expand to other states if ordered by ntsa. we will continue to test the inflators beyond the scope of the recalls to determine. for passenger airbags all analysis to date indicates the potential for rupturing is

limited to an extremely small fraction of older inflators. that isn't meant to minimize the issue. one rupture is too many. it does explain the safety related defect may arise in some of the inflators. the leading experts from around the world our best judgment is that the potential for the rapture is related to long-term exposure over many years to persistent conditions of high heat and high absolute humidity including possible manufacturing and vehicle specific issues. nonetheless we've proposed a broad remedy problems. we will play a central role in overseeing this remedy program and will prepare a plan

outlining steps to help determine the safety and expected service life of the remedy parts. we will also work with ntsa and customers to get the word out to consumers who help maximize the recall completion rates. in addition to increasing our own testing we are actively supporting the testing work of the automakers and ntsa. we also continue to support the work of the independent quality assurance panel led by the former secretary of transportation. and we are continually ramping up the production. in december we were producing approximately 350,000 hits per month and by september we expect monthly productions to reach 1 million units. half of the replacement text that we shot last month contained inflators made by other suppliers. and by the end of the year we expect that to reach 70%. we have confidence in the

inflators we are making today the integrity of the engineering and manufacturing, and we believe that properly made and installed, these inflators will work as designed to save lives. we will continue to do everything we can to ensure an compromised safety and the success of the recall effort and we will keep congress can't nhtsa into the public updated on the progress. thank you mr. chairman. >> the chair thanks the gentleman. mr. kelly is recognized for five minutes for an opening statement. >> chairman, ranking member schakowsky and subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to appear before you today to discuss the activities of the independent testing coalition. the itc is comprised of ten automakers that house takata in their vehicles and to the comprehensive investigation of the technical issues associated with nhtsa airbag inflators and we look forward to this process as we focus on the safety,

security and peace of mind of all motorists. our primary goal is to find the root cause of the problem. as we started to look at this issue of the energetic disassembly it is apparent that there is no silver bullet or easy solution to be found. the public needs to understand experts have been studying the problem for years. if this is anything but the complex project that it is him coming at what has been identified by now. unfortunately, that is not the case in the final determination. we've detailed a plan that when completed will examine every identified aspects of the problem. we will conduct more tens of thousands of chemical tests alone. this will be supplemented by the similar number of nondestructive tests. in addition there will be a significant amount of data generated from the test that

must be analyzed. this is too important for any stone to be left unturned. i do want to stress that we continue to conduct our investigations in an independent manner and we will work with takata and nhtsa and conduct this in an independent manner and we appreciate information from all the parties but we will do our own analysis of others testing procedures. when we finish our investigation we do continue to make our findings public. thank you. >> thanks for this opportunity. the u.s. companies and non-european companies i appreciate this opportunity to

testify. first the hearing is timely and welcomed into we are doing our part to complete this recall while continuing to build a significant advance. the airbag that we call is unprecedented in the global. that's why we support the administrator rosekind's authority to organize and prioritize effective manufacturers remedy programs. we all want a clear unified approach. we share the committee's frustration and it's difficult to tell the customers your constituents how long this will take to be resolved. second, for the logistics of about 80 million units sold of the world are highly complex and the legal impediments to the industry lead coordination the key challenge in most is more basic and that is getting consumers to take advantage of the fix. especially in the older

vehicles. the average consumer participation rate for the vehicle recalls happened about a year and a half is 83% for the new vehicles. but although the 40% for the vehicles older than ten years and because of the concerns the members tested the test the alliance to conduct the most intensive public opinion research ever. so we want consumers to respond and why others don't. what motivates consumers to go to dealership and get it done and what messages work and what messengers are most effective. work is underway and we will share the results with nhtsa and u2 helped forge the efforts to strengthen consumer participation. third, recall policies are vitally important and we are committed to strengthening the process for resolving defects. that said, it is one piece of the equation and a relatively

fractional one. certainly 90% plus results in human air for principally in pair driving and failure to use seat belts. we have seen profound safety gains over the last 50 years and especially the last decade, technology does offer the promise of even greater advances as we build on the crash worthiness and introduced the idea of the avoidance rationality. and ultimately self driving vehicles are part of a continuum that will save thousands of lives by helping to compensate for driver error. the speculation is already emerging reality. fourth and finally let me state the obvious. they are committed to improving safety and we are proud of the results that we have achieved both because it's the right thing to do and because it is good business. it's competitive in the landscape. a lot of companies are investing 100 billion every year in

research and development to comply and compete with various requirements in the u.s. and elsewhere and to compete in the marketplace. that investment is paying off and shows the customers and constituents do see the progress. relative to ten years ago your constituents the cars are safer by 86 to 5% and get better fuel economy or by 89 to 3% and have higher quality bike 79 to 12% so the progress is being recognized and that's terrific. thanks for the opportunity. we stand ready to work with you and our staff to make the roads as safe as possible. >> the chair recognizes you are five minutes. >> thinking member schakowsky and members of the kennedy i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today. global automakers represents the automotive manufacturers that design, build and sell cars and light trucks in the united

states. members sold 43% of new vehicles purchased in the u.s. last year and produced 40% of all of the vehicles built here. individually and jointly the member companies are committed to working towards a future in toward a future in which there are zero highway fatalities. the safety of americans traveling on the roadways remains a priority. mr. chairman and his hearing presents an opportunity to further this important discussion on improving auto safety. the takata recall is an unprecedented situation. the number of contractors and age of the vehicles involved along with sophistication and complexity of the technology makes this unique. as such committee are taking extraordinary measures to locate and communicate recall information to vehicle owners so that they know to take their vehicles and for repair. members have gone far beyond what the law requires with multiple rounds of recall notices. they are sending express mail to show the notification is not discarded.

they are using multiple platforms such as advertising, social media and electronic communications and they are working closely with dealer networks to ensure he has the capacity to serve with open recalls and additionally they created to conduct independent testing has led by david kelly. of course the recall campaigns are on the one component of creating a safer driving environment. the recall highlights the complex nature of the industry and challenges we face today. all stakeholders must work together in the effort to improve vehicle and highway safety. areas of focus include oversight of safety systems development and introduction of new technologies and the driver and passenger behavior. this committee through its act is giving nhtsa the ability of the safety related data about data that a better allows us to identify problems in the existing vehicles and to address and solve them.

in part the number is evidence that the requirements of nhtsa's vigilance and commitment of the manufacturers are advancing the vehicle safety. automakers are now deploying advanced technologies which will accelerate the move from the crash survival to the crash avoidance including the warning and breaking into suing the vehicle to vehicle infrastructure communications. according to dot the vehicle communications when fully deployed code address 80% of crashes involving unimpaired drivers. an approach to the vehicle he and highway safety must include human behavior that plays a role in a voluntary recall system. the recall completion rate is upward of 80%. the rate falls dramatically as they age. this is a challenge in resulting the recall and raises an important question are there limits to the success of the voluntary system?

automakers and members are exploring ways the industry can achieve better outcomes. we are working with officials and are happy to talk with you about new methods for getting useful effective and actionable recall information to customers such as including the notifications and annual vehicle registration processes. it's important to keep in mind highway safety is improving. the past december announced the traffic fatality decrease by 3.1% over the previous year and by nearly 25% since 2004. however there is clearly more work to be done regarding the recall of the most important thing we can do right now is to make sure people are aware of the status of their vehicle. every vehicle ownership go to safer car .gov and enter their vehicle identification number to determine whether additional action as needed. this needs to be done now and several weeks from now when

manufacturers will have posted a specific thing numbers of the vehicles that have been added to the list. personally i did this myself for my vehicle and my children's vehicle and it gave me the peace of mind of knowing where we are at. members will continue to work towards a mutual goal of 100% recall completion and zero traffic fatalities. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. >> i think the panel further testimony today and we will move into the question portion of the hearing and recognize myself for five minutes for questions. i've got a couple of questions that relate to the inflator. mr. kennedy primarily going to ask you but mr. kelly you have information because of your independent testing will please feel free to add. is takata the only airbag manufacturer that uses sodium

nitrate and its airbags? >> it is ammonium nitrate, sir. >> i believe we are the only one that uses it as a main propellant. there are other manufacturers that use it as a supplemental propellant. it has experienced this disruption or as you called it? >> i can't speak to the other suppliers. i really don't know the answer to that. >> the second hearing i've been involved in on this issue and ammonium nitrate just keeps coming up. it's a pretty powerful compound and it just begs the question is there a relationship between the ammonium nitrate used as an inflator of these accidents are happening? >> the study is that we have done and the research that we

have from the leading experts in the world seemed seem to indicate that it's certainly a factor in the ruptures. there are many other factors. i think you heard mr. kelly talk about some of them. it takes a long time. it takes high absolute humidity and high heat. but what is difficult about the situation as you can put to inflator's in the situation. one of them is fine and one of them is not so that is what the struggle this struggle has been with getting to the root cause. but it appears to be one of the factors that contribute since high humidity is an issue by understanding its some of these are manufactured with absorbing humidity which would then go along with a seven to 12 year time frame is presumably

completely used up over some period of time is that correct? gimmick i don't know that it would get completely used up. it depends on the amount of moisture that is in a particular inflator and the amount. many of the later generation inflators to contain ammonium nitrate. we have not seen this issue with those in the field. so we know that is a factor that contributes. >> do they manufacture any vehicle that uses ammonium nitrate without? >> yes. all of these inflators that are involved in the issues that we are talking about are all the ammonium nitrate. >> and are you still in effect during this? >> for the few platforms that we have not transitioned out of yet but we are working to as quickly

as possible. >> so you buy a brand-new car off the showroom floor and it could have one of these instruments? >> it could have a base to inflator that does not have this. that's correct. >> is there any obligation to warn the consumer that they are buying something that may be problematic? >> the recalls that are in process at this point are for certain time frames come certain vehicles on a certain technologies. those would indeed result in the vehicle at this point. but that's why we are continuing as a part of the consent order to test outside the boundaries to understand the total scope is stimac i'm sorry you're not providing me much reassurance in the answer. but we ask you this you said you would be up to a million units

and then we would continue to go up after that as well. but under just the simple math is 30 for million vehicles. >> is about 16 or 17 -- i don't mean to minimize it. it's a huge number whichever way you look at it. previously there had been about 18 million that had already been under the recall. we supplied over 4 million already since january of last year. and now as i said we are up to 750,000 a month. >> are any of the replacement modules that you are putting in reinstalling vehicles that are brought in to have their system

changed out are any of those without desiccant? >> some of them are. they are not ammonium ammonium by trade and of the drivers side where we have most of the issues as i mentioned in the opening remarks we are completely transitioning out of the bath things and we will be using the inflator were the competitor's inflator >> i want to follow-up on the chairman's question. you talked about what are the possible reasons including ammonium nitrate perhaps being a part of the cause. and you're saying if i understand you correctly that you are providing replacement bags that have ammonium nitrate

without desiccant. i don't understand that. what is under the recall right now? >> certain model years and the signs under certain vehicles. >> but why is ammonium nitrate may be a problem and would you and why would i buy -- why would you put in the car and wi-fi by a car wifi by a car that has a potentially dangerous airbag? >> we are working to move away from those but in the vehicle it's not as easy as just changing the color of the car. >> so the replacement could be as dangerous as the current. >> as i said without exactly understanding the root cause and

continuing to test outside the bounds we are trying to determine that. we are trying to understand what are the factors that lead to this and should we do something different than we are doing right now we know it takes seven and a half or 12 years so putting in a brand-new part is a huge improvement and as we continue to test it shows that we need to take additional actions. >> does the recall affects cars that are over 10-years-old? >> the original. the new ones now have to look to see because of that overlap that i talked about. but some of them go back to as early as 2000 or 2001. we were the first ones involved. >> my understanding is that you are doing that but you're not required to do so, so i wanted

to ask you if takata has taken a position on the vehicle safety improvement act of living 81. >> we have not publicly. i'm aware of the bill that we support any effort that would help improve the return on the recalls. >> let me give you some of the items in the bill and see if you would support that. a living 81 would increase the quality of information shared by the auto manufacturers with nhtsa, the public and congress and it requires manufacturers to include in the quarterly submissions additional information on fatal incidences, possibly caused by the defect and to assess why the incident they have occurred and remove the limitation on the number of model years that should be

reported. is this something that sounds supported to you? >> it is a little disingenuous to me because it isn't a requirement for the company to comment on but it would seem like that would be a good idea in order to increase the visibility on the issues that have been going on in the field. >> do you think it would be a good idea to not limit to ten years the number of mandatory recalls asking the cars older than ten years be part of the required recall? >> i didn't know there was a limit because the vehicles were 15-years-old. >> what you think that it's a good idea for nhtsa to have new imminent hazard authority to expedite recalls related to dangerous defects? >> again that is a difficult one for the supplier i think to

answer. but anything that improves the safety on the road is certainly a step in the right direction. >> is there any reason to support the regional recalls as opposed to national? >> obviously ours started off as a regional recall and the reason -- a couple of reasons it was doing that. number one, because that is what the science and the data showed and there are going to be some cases where i think that is probably correct. >> do they drive their cars to other places? >> that is true but the other thing i was going to say is that it also helps getting the parts into the priority areas as quickly as possible which is a part that we came to agreement with nhtsa on in the last couple of weeks. >> can i work with you as well obviously primarily with the members coming to talk to you about the legislation? >> absolutely. >> thank you.

>> the chair recognizes the gentle lady from tennessee for questions please. >> mr. kennedy, i'm going to stay right with you. if you drive a car that has a takata airbag? >> yes. >> what about your family? >> every one of them. >> are you concerned about the safety? >> no. >> i must have missed something because you talked about manufacturing from stopping the manufacturing of the airbags but you never mentioned the ammonium nitrate. you addressed it with mr. burgess on little bit. i want to ask if you would agree with a statement. this is from an explosives expert at missouri university of science technology and he said the following about ammonium nitrate. it shouldn't be used in the airbags but it is cheap

unbelievably cheap. do you agree on that statement? >> that it's unbelievably cheap or that it shouldn't be used? >> both. >> i wouldn't say that it's unbelievably cheap i would say that it's competitive with some of the other formulations that are out there like that nitrate some of our competitors use. i don't think -- is a blanket statement, i do not agree with that because we have had some issues with some of our inflators but some of them performed very well. >> are you an explosives expert? >> i am an engineer, but i'm not a chemist or an explosives expert. >> then let's go to what is schakowsky is saying this. isn't it true that ammonium

nitrate is a dangerous substance to be used in airbag and inflators? >> most of the issues that you hear about ammonium nitrate are that art but it's losing its base stabilization. >> isn't it true that it's cheaper than other compounds? >> probably. at the time that we start using ammonium nitrate, the competing metrorail material is quantity and nitrate and it's not a huge difference between those. >> ivar an engineer and isn't it true that your own engineers.

>> i'm from some of the newspaper articles i read i'm assuming that you are referring to the comment isn't that correct? >> any product any supplier ever makes there is always a spirited debate about what are the right components, what is the right design, and there are trade-offs to all of those things. the previous materials we use it was extremely toxic. it also had the unwanted effect that when it was deployed it didn't burn very clean and there was a lot of affluence that was put into the vehicle and a lot of people that had respiratory issues were bothered by those. so, every propellant on every design -- there was always a spirit you could find -- i want

to move on because i'm about to run out of time here. >> okay, given that you are recalling the cars that may have already been repaired have there been any feel incidences reported that he had any occurrences with those? >> not that i'm aware of. >> so they've performed 100% satisfactorily in the cars in which they have been installed? >> what i said is i'm not aware of any of the replacement parts. >> what you doublecheck that and get back to us and let us know? what does takata believe we know from testing today that we didn't know what year ago? >> we know a lot and not just from our testing. some of the gentleman referred to the report that was released. we brought him into the facility

in february and we got a team -- >> what kind of changes are you making with that information if you are still using the propellant? >> we have the designs that use it as one of the things that has been proven to improve the situation. we also have alternate with one of the nitrate that we started production a year or two ago and we are continuing to ramp those of. i think overall you will see u.s. production of the ammonium nitrate go down rapidly. >> you expect the u.s. would decrease. why is that? >> it's certainly got a bad reputation and it's one of the intriguing factors that everyone

believes is involved in this issue. >> can you signify or guarantee that as long as it is used the products are safe? can you guarantee as long as it is used in the products that they are safe? of >> we believe properly manufactured stabilized can be done properly. >> you indicated in your testimony certain circumstances these conditions can result in alteration of the propellant wafers and inflators that could lead to overaggressive combustion. so your statement is that if it is properly manufactured and then under the right circumstances those conditions would not exist. >> we have seen them in very rare places and that goes back to the root cause discussion we

were having a little bit earlier. we do not have to prove cause. we know a lot more than we did in december based on all of the testing that we've done and all of the testing or outside experts have done. >> suggesting that you've done if i understand you correctly come and please correct me if i do not come up at the ammonium nitrate and a substance used at the production and then on the certain conditions of humidity and heat over time could lead to a malfunction if your plan is to phase out the ammonium nitrate and the product. >> we have been phasing it out and later the propellant but some of them be gone from non- deprecated and now we're moving to a quantity in nitrate. >> and you said it is a similar cost. so why not adopt it earlier?

>> we made investments in order to process the ammonium nitrate. we've are having we were having good success with ammonium nitrate. it was competitive. it had a number of advantages to it that the customers enjoy it. so it wasn't something that until the recent issues really gave us a reason to rethink it. >> so further damages as of late. and then i think you tried to touch on this but forgive me if i am still a little bit confused. in an article in "the new york times" yesterday indicated that the headline says it will no longer make a link to the defect. takata says it will no longer make a link to the defect and basically says he will not be using ammonium nitrate.

there's another piece that i saw today saying that the money and nitrate still would be manufactured in the piece that i think that it wasn't going to be and it was withdrawn so can you try to clarify for me is that still being used it still being used in the products and shove people -- do people have to have confidence in the product that's going in? >> i'm glad you asked that problem. there was a lot of confusion once the written testimony was released. ones that you one said you are and one said you're not. it's a long story. we had people working on it since it came out. as i mentioned earlier we are continuing to use ammonium nitrate and our propellant. they stabilize the ammonium nitrate both with and without that there is not much without that's still out there. we did say we were going to quit

making these inflators because that seemed to be again one of the issues we've seen from all of the testing that we've done. it's more prevalent. >> okay. given that i only have about 30 seconds left i will yield back. >> we recognize the gentleman from new jersey for your question please. >> thank you mr. chairman. good afternoon to you all gentlemen. i was at a hearing in december i was the vice chair then as i am now. i quoted from the transcript can't directly from the transcript of the december hearing on this matter i had asked your colleague about this whole matter and i stated takata's current view based upon reliable information does not support a nationwide

determination of the safety defect in all of the information equipped in the driver's-side inflators. this isn't the view of the agency in the federal government obviously nhtsa but to protect the american people and and is so into so you are dramatically and diametrically in opposition to the view. is that accurate? and then he discussed this with his colleagues. there was a translation problem but he then answered the question and said and this is a quote from the transcript coming yester wrecked that is our statement. then i went on to say in conclusion and we will be asking this leader in the hearing on november 25, they demand a national recall and of course that wasn't the view of takata at a time. ..