standard and poor trying the interplay credit rating. ed and eight years balanced-budget, pay taxes. strong employment numbers. last year's governor, aaa credit rating. lo and behold all three across the board give us aaa is the 1st time. and he said we used to. elected governor. we had no money for employees and retirees. revenue and participation to raise money and make pigeon checks every month. ten years and took care of

it. wwor the money that the money that the postal service space into the medicare trust fund is greater i believe than any other employer in america. they pay more money into

medicare trust fund than any employer. they don't get full value for what they pay and most postal retirees 65 or over sign up for medicare part abe. the majority sign-up for part b. maybe none sign-up for medicare part b prescription judge here so the postal service is in effect by overpaying medicare subsidizing their competitors so they can underpay. my wife retired from dupont in which he turned 65 she still looks 45 when she turned 65 the folks at medicare reached out and said martha we love you but by the way you have to sign-up or medicare and we will provide coverage for you. not just japan -- dupont did that. the postal service can do that and one of the most important things we can do is to fix this issue so we still have liability and must be met but we have to level the playing field and that's part of our

responsibility. let me ask a question after giving that diatribe. i want to ask a question about while the postal service continues to try and reduce costs while also maintaining fast and reliable service and here's the question how would you as a member of the board of governors try to find the right balance on this challenge maintaining fast and reliable service in growing your business? if you like the question we asked tsa. admiral. >> i think it's the responsibility of all businesses to keep their costs as low as possible but i also have a very strong belief that you cannot cut costs and make yourself successful in the long run. you have to grow revenue. so the concept that we can cut

our costs to become profitable while i believe it's important to cut costs, to me it's a doomed strategy. you need to be able to look at a growing business to be successful. and if you can't do that then cutting costs of works in the short-run but we can only cut them so far and what inevitably happens is you cut costs and then it starts affecting service and then the sales go down even more. so my view is absolutely pay attention to costs be as efficient as you can but it is not a successful business strategy in and of itself. you have to have a strategy that grows the topline.

>> mr. chairman one of the things that mr. villegas and i talked about yesterday on the phone was one of three roundtables we held that dealt with inviting a bunch of folks to come and one from the postal service and others from different walks of life and asked them what are your ideas for growing businesses? i was delighted to hear how many creative ideas there are and this is just scratching the surface. the postal service has reduced by almost half the number of full-time employees that they have in the dozen or so years reduced by half the mail processing centers they have in this country and reduce by third day number of post offices around the country. the pre-retirement pension liability make it more fair but there is a great opportunity here. we will have fun fixing this and i look forward to doing that.

one of the best lessons i have learned in my life were from my failures not so much for my successes and i have had plenty of failures. when you look back that some of the lessons he may have learned for example the dissolution bankruptcy of new companies former subsidiaries. could you just maybe give us some idea or to what you learn from that and lessons from that experience that might be applicable here? >> i learned so much from that it would take me an hour. >> we don't have quite that long. >> i didn't figure you did. in the first place i agree with you. i have come to the conclusion that if one is looking at success however one might do fine if that's the biggest successes come from having failures and recovering from

them and one of the things i learned from the debacle and you can call it anything other than that is you can recover. you have to keep your iran the ball and fight your way out of whatever problem you are an and take the lessons you have learned from matt and apply them as you go forward in the future so just as an example far more failure which not only bankrupted far more but came very close to bankrupting giant eagle as well cause the giant eagle to be a much more focused manager on the bottom line holding assets, cutting debt and being a much more secure and safe company. i don't have any doubt that having gone through far more that change the way we managed

it. the second thing i learned which is an accountant senator you will know this and one of the things you are looking for is fraud. every accountant i have ever talked to when you talk about fraud they say if you get a conspiracy of just a few key people that it's very hard to detect and that's actually what happened. the whole conspiracy was for and so one of the things that i have become much more vigilant about since then is looking at the financial statements, looking at how they pulled off the fraud had far more and asking is there anything that is going on in our current company that is anything like that?

and i have actually taken that applied that in a larger sense where right down either as a director or as a chief executive executive. whenever something goes wrong in a company that is like ours, the first thing i do is i call the top executive and i say the first thing is let's thank god it wasn't us and second let's find out what happened and why it happened and are we vulnerable to that. the last thing i have learned while i have learned lots of things that i have often wondered to myself how did i survive that crisis. i was the chief executive which is a very natural question to ask. did he know? should he have known etc. and i know myself when we read about

one of these frauds the first thing anyone assumes is the chief executive must know but i didn't know i was the one who discovered the fraud actually but what i learned is the most important thing is to really be totally honest and open all the time and to make sure when there is bad news that you don't make any effort to hide and it comes from you. i think taking back and applying it to the situation at the post office there is a lot of bad news at the post office and i think we ought to recognize the bad news and we have to try and figure out. you are never going to deal with it unless you act nice it and we have to try and come up with a plan that says okay the situation is bad that situation

is bad. how are we going to deal with it? to me, if you identify what the problems are no matter what people are telling you the assumptions are if you can get them to understand the problems you can generally get them to agree on solutions assuming there are solutions. but the solutions are often very tough and required changes that a lot of people don't want to make so if you want to accomplish those kinds of changes people have to have a shared understanding of a problem. >> thank you very much. mr. president mr. chairman we have been blessed by the testimony of two nominees that i think are exceptional and we are lucky that you were willing to do this and cindy is willing to

give you up to serve the people of our country. the last quick thing i would say just go back to the legislation that dr. coburn and i worked on had a big focus on innovation trying to create innovation and out of the four people that have been nominated by the president to serve a couple of them are -- as well my hope is the legislation we passed will have some thoughtful provisions that deal with fostering innovation and hope we will have a chance to work with you on that. thanks very much for your patience mr. chair. >> thank you senator carper. mr. villegas one the word of the bad the solutions for the fiscal situation of this country will not be easy so i just want to thank you for coming here for your testimony and your willingness to serve. i've want to thank you for being an example of a great american someone who is serving your your

community or state in the nation by doing what americans do aspiring, building something doing something successfully with obviously some adversity. unfortunately in today's society we too often demonized and demagogue people that are trying hard to create good jobs. and to celebrate that success and i celebrate it with you and i appreciate your willingness to serve and i think your wife for being by your side in the service. again look forward to moving this nomination this quickly as possible so we can get the board of governors operating under regular order. answers to questions submitted by the committee reviewed by the government office of ethics. it will be made part of the hearing record record with the exception of public inspection

and committee offices. this hearing record for main open until noon tomorrow june 11 at 12:00 p.m. for the submission of statements and questions for the record. this hearing is adjourned. >> senator thank you very much. >> you're welcome. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> director of clinical cardiology at brigham and

women's hospital boston dr. patrick aguirre on the advances of heart surgery in the progress being made in the understanding of heart health. >> this actually is a valve that has been cramped onto this catheter that is being now positioned into the diseased valve and it will be deployed here in just a second with a balloon being inflated and a new felt would be inserted inside the old calcified still not at golf and she can see here the delivery system is being withdrawn and the wire will be withdrawn and what we have seen in this little editorial display is replacement of the diseased aortic golf in a manner that does not require open-heart surgery so we are trying to become smarter about predicting who will get disease. we are trying to become smarter as to identifying the most good

means to prevent or attenuate the disease and smarter about following up over longer period of time so we are currently in an era where we are trying to harness the promise of the human genome research project that has now been in existence for more than decade with all of the informatics that can be driven by the giants of the industries like google for example and information about sociology, geography, demographics and where you live and where the rover tracks in your city. what is your likelihood to get diabetes on the basis of your educational background and what is your likelihood of developing something like diabetes or hypertension if you live in a certain part of the city where you have less access to the right kind of food or even the right kinds of instructions about sodium consumption little things like that could have enormous population -- impacts on population health.

>> in the next few days several more 2016 presidential announcements are expected. some of those presidential hopefuls are already on the campaign trail in early caucus and primary states like new hampshire. wmur-tv at manchester is hosting a series titled conversations with the candidate. siena governor bobby jindal discusses his vision for the u.s. and why he would be the right choice to lead the nation. this is 25 minutes. [applause] >> good evening welcome to our conversation with a canon series. i'm josh mcalpin and our guest is louisiana governor republican bobby jindal. tonight we are going to know where bobby jindal stands on the key issues. after studio break with or after break we will get to her studio audience and let them get their

questions then. before we get to that let's have a quick look at the candidates biography. >> bobby jindal was born in baton rouge louisiana 1971. he graduated from brown university with honors in biology and public policy before attending oxford university in england as a rhodes scholar. gender worked as a consultant for fortune 500 companies before appointed secretary of louisiana department of health and hospitals and appointed as a the president of the university of louisiana system. he was then called on by president george w. bush to serve as assistant secretary for the u.s. department of health and human services and in 2001 press huseby all of the adviser to the dhs secretary. in 2004 jindal was elected to the 109th nsa's commerce and in 2007 he was elected as governor of louisiana. you believes in reforming the health care systems and offering more choices when it comes to education. jindal was married -- jindal is married and has three young children. >> without governor general thank you for being with us.

that is quite a resume when you look at it. when did you decide you wanted to take a hard look at the presidency? >> josh is a great question and is the first -- the reason i ran for governor the first time. i was worried about the direction of louisiana. my wife and i have three great children. back then we had her first child and we were worried if we didn't change or state our children when fields are children when fields are corrupt and louisiana louisiana. at that same concern for america. president obama's changing the american dream into a european nightmare. i want my children one day my grandchildren all of our children to inherit the same term we inherited from our parents. it's the idea circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcomes. if you work hard and you get a great education there should be no limit to what you can do in this country. >> not long ago you were deemed one of the project stars and the

republican party. how do you get the momentum when you have other bigger names with the ability to raise money? >> one of the things i've done differently, all these potential candidates we are the only one this that spent the last year and have the last year met with detailed ideas on health care, energy and education and foreign policy. as an example lot of republicans said they wanted to get rid of obamacare and we are the only one that has offered a detailed plan for how to do that. we need the next president to be someone wants to do something not just be somebody. we put thought into how we have the dollars for education. had we get to energy independence? i when reverse a decline in the international stage so the first thing that sets us apart all the only one offering detailed specific plans. secondly we have got to shrink the size of this federal government before it overcomes her private sector economy. it's one of the biggest threats to american dream we siena we have a proven track record

record. i've reduce the size or budget 26% and we have 30,000 state employees and the day took office. as a result of private sector economy is growing twice as fast as the national economy and the top 10 states for job creation. for 25 years people moving into the states on number one we offer detailed plans and we have a proven track record. >> let me ask about it big issue national security and nsa is something a lot of people are talking about a republican deal. general philosophy where they stand when it comes to gathering records and national security? >> security? >> or agencies have to have the tools they need to protect us from terrorists and unfortunately that's just no longer just a threat abroad. we saw the garland texas attack. we must have the tools to go after these terrorists and let's call them what they are radical islamic terrorists. that is what the enemy we are confronting today. the same time we can give them those tools. our agencies the tools they need

to protect those without violating the rights of everyday americans. these agencies shouldn't be able to sweep up collect the records of innocent americans especially when they're doing this without a court order without any sense there is some connection of radical islamic groups are terrorist groups so let's give them the tools but not violate the rights of everyday americans. you know you have issues when the author of the national patriot act are being used in ways we didn't intend. our leaders can come up up with a right balance give right balance give agencies the tools but let's not do the mass collection of innocent americans data. >> sore reason is necessary. >> if they need those records they can do it under court order but at the same time if there is reason to suspect a connection of terrorism given them the tools to capture those terrorists. we need to do more to go after terrorists here and abroad. >> you come from a state that

dealt with hurricane katrina and the oil spill off the coast of louisiana which was devastating in a lot of areas. from the standpoint of the presidency what did you learn from those two disasters and i think that's fair to say that you would apply to the white house that perhaps hasn't been done so far? >> one of the reasons i am wise towards the governor or president is we have a one term senator. one of the things governors have to do is we have her work on the legislature and balance a budget that we have to respond to unexpected disasters. i was in congress when hurricane katrina came and i was governor and the oil oil spill came and other challenges as well. what you learn in each of those crises for example in louisiana got to deal with the unexpected. you realize the original plans don't often work. you have to cut red tape and bureaucracy. you have to apply management skills to these crises so for

example during the oil spill one of our frustrations with the federal government too often gotten away. it was clear to us we were doing with it would never run anything and we have a saying in louisiana when you're in hurricane season as we are now hope for the best and prepare for the worst. his administration didn't do that. that was the best case forecast from bp and others. instead of saying what if there is more oil in the water and what if we don't have enough resources? i can we they weren't willing to listen to the people on the frontlines. some of those people don't have ph.d.s or nobel prizes but they live on the water and they can come up with the best ideas to protect their estuaries and their homes, protect our way of life so the bottom line is i think when you have governors let's be honest there's no job perfectly for parachute to be president but when you have governors that have run things in the private sector they are more likely to know how to throw

the rulebook to respond to a disaster. they are more likely to understand how you make real-time decisions. we have had six plus years almost seven years of a president who didn't know any of those things. >> what do you say we take a quick break and we'll get to her studio audience. >> sounds great. >> stay with us. stay now conversation with the candidate continues. >> welcome back to our conversation with can do. tonight's guest we asiana governor bobby jindal. time to bring in questions from our audience. the first question coming from bennett chandler. >> welcome to new hampshire governor. a simple but probably not easy to answer questions what would you do to protect us from isis or isil or whatever who or whatever who want to call it today? >> i think think that defied isis militarily diplomatically as well as culturally.

this president's failure to have a strategy we are trying to lead from behind. we have created these vacuums in iraq and syria. isis is the unique group compared to al qaeda and that they have to hold onto on to territory for them to have their caliphate to continue to recruit. if we destroy their ability to hold the land to doesn't mean we will have exterminated all the terrorists that we can destroy isis ability to propagate their propaganda so a couple of things. you may have seen in the fight in kobani you saw great alliance between allied airstrikes as well as kurdish troops on the ground and we were successful in repelling isis out of kobani. that partnership to market our allies in the region understand and believe america's committed to this fight. under president obama we have not shown that so he tour red line in the sand with assad and didn't of -- and force it.

what they are worried is america's not serious about this fight fighting isis could strengthen iran and syria. similarly in iraq you have this president withdraw our troops due to political deadline and creating a vacuum that isis has exploited. he goes to the congresses and gives says give me a -- military force. think he's the first commander in chief to tell her point is what we won't do. we should say we will keep every option on the table. we are going to fight this war to win it so that means to me giving more arms and training to the kurds pray they have done a heroic job protecting not only themselves but religious minorities and that means think they're assad has to go which would encourage their scent allies to help us with ground troops and other resources. we need to do what it takes to hunt down and tear these -- kill these terrorists. we have to fight this war

militarily diplomatically and culturally. we have a problem and islam has a problem and that rob him as radicalism. never president who does want to say than he's busy criticizing medieval christians. instead of saying you are the two things i would like to hear our commander-in-chief tell us that we need clarity and honesty. he needs to call on muslim leaders to do this, to say look these individuals, they need to condemn these individuals these individual terrorists are not martyrs enjoying an award of the afterlife but rather going straight to hell. ..

>> >> the issue is

affordability. we proposed a specific plan and you can go online with 16 specific policy recommendations for go very quickly across day purchase of insurance and state access and wellness accounts to have tax advantage spending and however they want to buy health care. >> will need to help the true leave full verbal. we need to help them buy the health care that they need and we can do that working

with the states there are better ways to do that. to help the state's like for example, not requiring people with their cobra coverage to the individual market. we require states access with pre-existing conditions with other guarantees of affordable health care but you mentioned the 40,000 people on medicaid. you may have seen this study after two years of medicaid expansion that said there was no improvement of physical health care outcomes so it is very inefficient there are better ways to read improve outcomes from those you truly need help but the third way is to provide consumer choice and affordability but to your point i do want to get rid

of obamacare it is a jury what it was intended play bureaucrats in between doctors and patients but going back to the status quo the way it was before obamacare is not acceptable either it is the best in the world if you get sick this is where you want to be. we have three kids our middle child needed open-heart surgery before he was three months. we didn't want to go to another country this is the best place for quite the same time there are far too many americans who cannot afford that health care. affordability is what we need to focus on we have a detailed plan to get that done and it does help people but it does not involve the government takeover of the health care system teeeighteen we will stick with astute -- ideas questions. >> according to a report

published last year 20,000 children and teenagers were killed by guns between 2002 and 2012 in the united states. your state has one of the highest number of deaths due to homicide. if you were the next president what will you do to protect america's children from done violence. jindal: there is a bill this year that would encourage education for our children the weather and -- as there are programs in the schools about the safety. that is good irresponsible and parents should be doing that anyway. we have guns in our home. to take my boys hunting and what they have used them and they are very responsive all winter stand these are not to always say they are loaded you don't point to guns that anybody or to do so casually. and my middle child first went hunting his friend's

father said if you point it you will shoot a few she did you kill a utility will eat it because he wanted to shoot everything he saw then he said he will eat all of those. we do have a culture of hunting and outdoors and activities we want our children to respect guns they are things handled as a responsibility. widely speaking there are policies to put in place so for my state we were charged those with mental health issues that information was made available to the database that those who should not be getting guns guns, there are things with a system of checks and

balances could do better but i am not in favor of taking away a law-abiding citizens' rights. and second it doesn't make us safer there are things that we could do. we also taught our girl as well they have all gotten to the dead ranged with instructors there understand how touche to safely and they understand the power. we are considering legislation to do blood education in the schools for those who wanted. it is not mandatory but also the mental health records are accessible and that is a reform i would encourage all over the country. >> moderator: now we will go from social media. are you on facebook or twitter? how would you leave of the immigration mess along the southern border? jindal: a great question.

number one we don't need a comprehensive bill from the senate or the house or washington d.c. but we did the president and congress to secure the border. period. they talk about it but just do it. second to comment just do that. right now we have low low wall and a narrow gate. that is the opposite we need a high wall and a broad gauge. we need it the of broader gate we need to make easier for those who want to contribute to read or country. that is too hard the immigration system can make it weaker or stronger purpose and makes as weaker than we educate them then kick them out to compete against us. they want to, through the front door to work harder were burning says it'll come here to get on a government program but to get a job.

that could be good for us. my parents came to this country over 40 years ago my mom steadied at lsu my dad got his job in the yellow pages. i think our cadre is better off to have people like that he will contribute to the economy. we have this narrow gauge one of the foolish things we do with universities and schools give the best education event kicked them out or take jobs away. i will say one thing that does not get talked-about enough. most republicans as well talk about securing the border. but we also need to talk about assimilation. we used to be proud of the great melting pot. one of the things i love about this country if you

were here five minutes or 100 years to our american to start a business or join the military. there are some of the left that say we're not a melting pot some say it is a correct to say somehow our culture is better than i think anybody who wants to be here should be american and it is foolish to pretend. one of the things we can do is stop calling ourselves hyphenated americans we're not in the americans are african american or asian american and the sooner we see that the stronger we are as a country. jindal: . >> moderator: back to the studio audience. >> with us this is united what specific reform will lead you evidence to end the corrupting influence of money in the political system? jindal: great question. i am of for disclosure we

need to know where these dollars are coming from. more disclosure is better but that we should have a level playing field. when i was then in congress for a couple of terms, three years when i left to be governor. we need structural reforms if we would get rid of the corruption. to say where they go to become a lobbyist i would like to see a part-time congress with the same rules and laws as the rest of us the founding fathers to be a lifelong profession but these were families to put down instruments to come

home to live under the laws of everybody else the reforms faster then the private sector economy without a super majority have also arborvitae do see i say how seriously we paper gm i would like to give congress a her diem everyday's stayed out of washington and mark twain said it is best when the congress and legislature is out of town we have seen too much power aggregated washington d.c. "the post" did seven of the top 10 candidates as from d.c. that is not the real economy and you don't see middle-class wages rising for the record though participation rates were the gdp not growing at

all. we need that lower or flatter tax code. it is good congress, rid of their marks -- earmarks now it is in the tax code is not just republican or democrat but it is easy to say when they do this with their friends it doesn't make a better when they do it for our friends either a simple tax code some of the changes of the balanced budget it does require a radical change. >> moderator: we're almost at a time. when we make the decision if you will get into this thing? jindal: we're in the middle of the legislative session i will make the decision after june 11. the number one criteria if i

can make the difference. the only reason anybody should think about running for president we always say the next election as the most important. nobody says don't worry about this one stay home but there really is true purpose of we don't want to mortgage our children's future but this has to be more than a republican in the white house but somebody that will make big changes. the president is bankrupting the country here and abroad to make up for auction for the countries we're not the last generation. >> moderator: best of luck moving forward. that is all the time we have but while the sign of this conversation continues online broker you will find of full 34 minutes commercial free of questions from the studio audience. have a great night.

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[applause] >> moderator: welcome to our "conversation with the candidate" series three have republicans and jeb bush we will go where he stands on the issues for our will be asking questions than they will have the studio audience jump in with the town hall style format but first we will look at the potential candidate. >> jeb bush boarded texas 1953, graduated from university of texas austin with a bachelor of arts let american studies before moving to miami florida in 80 to former real-estate company. he served as florida's secretary of commerce and jordan up with the miami urban league to establish one of the first charter schools liberty city. he was elected to the 43rd

governor in 1980 and reelected to thousand two. after leaving office the served as chairman of the conservative education reform organization with foundations for excellence in education and. recently launched a tax to support candidates that has supported a strong economic growth he lives in miami and is married with three grown children and three grandchildren. >> four grandchildren. [laughter] thank you for joining us. you have an insider's perspective how difficult a job paying president must me as you consider this why you want this gig? bush: we're at the intersection with a few complex things there is a lot of gridlock and dysfunction but if we fix it it is the most extraordinary time to be alive as an american but if not we are in decline.

this is a moment in time where of leadership matters and i believe i have the skills to convince people i could leave did fix things add across the aisle to create a consensus how we tax and regulate to deal with a broken system around us teeeighteen you are asked about your dad and brother how difficult is it a river question without you feel but he were asked to psychic guess their decisions like iraq or. bush: i have to get better i am loyal to my family i love my father and mother my brothers and my sister. it is part of who i am. it is it my dna. my brother doesn't care about decisions but i am it is important to may provide all feel comfortable but i will get over that because i want to show people i want to talk about the future. so the key is with those

republican presidents but it is important to learn so we don't make similar mistakes so we can move the country for word. >> moderator: talking about the iraq war hindsight, what would you have done differently? . . nhiop roosevelt should have engaged in the year of european part door if we had known there were 6 million jews murdered by the nazi but obviously the power of hindsight is irrelevant but knowing what we know now those decisions based on faulty intelligence was a mistake and that doesn't mean we would have dealt with saddam hussein and in different circumstances and the world is better off without him in power and those losses should have been learned by the current president by departing too early has created a void

that has been filled and this week to the ice this army is the log for a terrorist cell that to go for robot either a lot of blood was shed cop to create stability in iraq teeeighteen rabil repeat a question with interesting answer if he were president of united states who is reversed phone call? >> the leadership of congress how to recreate an agenda of most aggressive and republicans that is the only way you do the deal. how to force concessions is zero or have that web of stability? how can rebuild trust to figure out we don't have to fight for those they're deeply held views. agent that is the essential

elements it doesn't work if it is about the winner and the loser. governors know how to do this because they have to balance a budget with bipartisan support. >> moderator: talk about immigration with divisive opinions so how do you go across the aisle let's come together and make it work. >> you have to have a president that people trust will adhere to the law but this president has signed executive orders that our unconstitutional and it will be proven that way. is a political wedge with no confidence there is a serious effort to reinforce the border or rule of law. you have to make a solid commitment then make the case that shifting to a legal immigration system to

a catalyst for high growth that is a winning issue and certainly they support that idea teenage you what is most susceptible? bush: the canadian model which is family petitioning and expanding emigrants. half a million people come to this broadest definition in though world. we have had this schedule 45 years and it has crowded out economic immigrants though if you expand the people coming by family or economic purposes generally people would like that. a spee and the h1-b visas program or the guest worker program people graduate from universities with a stem degree they can stay in

there are things we could do then to deal with the 11 million people here illegally that practical solution is to allow a path of status rate day get a permit to learn english they work and that is the solution to deal with a huge problem so you cannot deport them all but we can create a path to earn their legal status. >> moderator: we will take a quick break. we will be right back. stay with us. >> moderator: welcome back with our "conversation with the candidate" next guest florida former governor jeb bush.

now we have the question from brian. >> governor bush, what qualifies you to be president among the current pool of candidates and considering the fact you have not been in public office ted years. bush: i am a business person starting with two people and it is the largest full-service commercial real-estate company for cry would not discount business experience and and the job like a presidency to create a strategy and execute for cry was one of the most successful path governors in modern history dealing in a purple state where i could act on conservative principles to apply them with no 1.3 million net new jobs in a business environment we're the only state to go to a triple a bond rating and recreated reserves at $10 billion.

i brought a little discipline to the process and we reform schools like nobody's business and did a lot of things where principles were applied in the right way and i led. so i think that truly matters big issue will see the gridlock and nothing gets done because there isn't the leadership to forge consensus. we created a foundation to deal with reforms and that works in 40 states so i have then actively engaged to be involved in business. >> moderator: the next question. >> good morning governor. if president what would you do differently?

we'll reduce cattle on negotiations or what would you do? >> the challenge with iran the next president will likely be determined either we won't have a deal by the end of june or we will but most people thank you want to deal so bad he will get one but it creates a problem because we are at least to accepting it as a nation and other countries that feel threatened by good reason because the proxy makes efforts to destabilize the region as we speak. and said to have the same capability but the magic is in the world to have nuclear capabilities it is one of the great challenges of our time. i hope the deal is settled

and is verifiable and i hope the senate acts to have a voice to disapprove it if necessary but we will eliminate sanctions the iranians will have the missile defense capability with that initial agreement was announced and the ability to have that military deterrence to join in that community of nations will be minimized. it is hard to tell the options but we need to be vigilant with the intentions of by reenforce sure. they are sponsoring shia militia sponsoring hezbollah that is the prime defender they are participating through sponsorship of a faction of the complete

unsustainable situation in helping to find support from her modest -- how lost -- hamas. you cannot think they will fulfill their agreements that our forthcoming. >> governor bush, you have been quoted as saying the best way to repeal obamacare is to have an alternative. what would that alternative look like and how deal richer low income children and parents do not lose access to the care they currently receive? >> politically just to be against something you run out of gas. people generally know the republicans are against

obamacare. but we have to be four things if we are successful. first of all, was it relates to protecting the poverty level that has nothing to do with obamacare we protected those problems and that medicaid problem could be improved health as well but it basically keeps the system that is broken we should shift to these programs back to the states to have criteria to allow them to innovate to have better outcomes and data florida we did this and we gave choices for though in, to give them counseling to pick the plan that best

meets the needs with a higher premium for those that have acute illnesses with lower-cost with better care. with the broader issue, i think those exchanges are not a bad thing. it was a conservative entity , the heritage foundation proposes but we should not have the employer mandates that create these extraordinary cost him people should have cost but ultimately we need to move to the consumer directed model for health care with low premiums and high deductibles wherever appropriate provides premium support with catastrophic coverage so what you say as a society with a life to gentleness the family will not be devastated. give that peace of mind but

then gives choices and focus on preventing diseases because it is extraordinarily expensive. embraced the technology in our midst. i am so proud of my watch i cannot figure out how to use the but in five years i know these devices will be used to monitor your health to send messages if you're not taking your medicine your health care provider knows. to empower people to take control that is what we need to do rand said we can improve quality of care. >> moderator: are you on facebook? >> follow me on twitter but don't read all the nice things people say about me. [laughter] i notice anonymous is

dangerous if people feel empowered to be ugly. >> moderator:. >> what will you do to stop prices from committing terrorist acts in the u.s.? bush: we need to improve the patriot act for crying out loud. as time goes on memories fade and in the passage is one of the tools that has kept us save people repeat to the belief that somehow the civil liberties are being violated. there is a one single shred of evidence they're good people repeated it will be accurate but that it is not there are safeguards to protect civil liberties but there is evidence it can help us be safe but the first option is to protect

our shores or the home and and "the patriot act" to is one element. i would say first and foremost we need to pass the patriots back to rand we need to read engaged for presley pullback we are a community of nations that is so uncommon for the leaders to talk about we create a void that is filled by islamic terrorism isn't a case of pulling back, there is a middle ground which is the american power is a force for good will lessen the chance to put the boots on the ground if we are engaged to develop relationships with our allies and started with

israel including the other traditional arab nation is. that is how we regain our footing the does that made 100,000 troops but people need to know we are serious and we are a gauge to have a coalition to narrow the ice is influenced then to take them out. it should be done for political purposes that could be troubling but everything seems to be politicized now. policies are polled driven to have touche make sure you mirror those sentiments that changes was there is a terrorist attack or a be heading then they say why are we in the environment that is not secure? presidents need to the day and have a strategy teeeighteen now we will get

back to the audience. >> governor bush, i have already spoke about energy on the campaign trail maybe you have seen a poll a percent of republican voters in new hampshire think energy policy is a priority how to relate that to? bush: is the lifeblood to get it right to allow us to have a commit to do conservation to reduce carbon emissions and also allows us to reindustrialized the country to give the first good deal is six or seven years. think about low energy as it relates to or utility bill this happens because the energy revolution taking place in our country.

i repeat this because it does show the difference of people that believe did freedom and free markets compared to the progressives that think they're smarter than the rest of us handcraft proposals in ivory towers or rooms where bureaucrats hang out in washington d.c.. compare that explosion of increase of natural gas that has brought over prices now investment to reindustrialize the country to the venture capital inside the department of energy the stimulus provided and it was given to the department and smart people from great university somewhere put in a room they said we will pick the winners like solyndra. but it turns out the free society where they pursue their dreams creates more innovation and technology and better results than the smart central planners

program that lesson should be applied overall there are credits and deductions and cynosure reason we have created the industrial policy with the energy but i think we should phase them out and let the interaction and the desire of conservation be the two principal means of which we need to grow as well. >> to our time is flying. >> governor bush. welcome parker you supported a ballot initiative to provide access for all states for years old is that a bull states should set? if so what role would you play to encourage more access to early education?

bush: states ought to decide betted florida the voluntary pre-kay was a great idea because we had a real strategy to ensure more children were functionally literate by the end of third grade. we were lagging behind florida had 57 percent of school-age kids free and reduced once qualified a lot of families are struggling in my beloved state. so if we move to the literacy based program with ending social promotion if you are functioning hillary did not go to fourth grade we will change the system so robust accountability to get for year-old san environments that were safe and healthy as well as focusing on literacy and training teachers have to teach reading and all of that together created the greatest gains in reading in any state in the country. 70% participate with government support in the

four year-old program said it is the largest voucher program in the country by the way 90 percent of the kids going to the programs are with private providers we have had gains that would defy your imagination her gore do think in the case of florida it was the right thing that'll think washington should dictate anything through the government but educating your children has to be a national priority we have they resolved -- a result is abysmal maybe 40 percent are college or career ready. we have an 80 percent graduation rate but that is not relevant if you cannot get in to take college level courses. starting early to have robust accountability all of that is the effective strategy. >> we only have one minute to go but to make this

official or to make a decision. >> i have been listening and learning how lot and we're getting to the point i need to say yes or no part by an excited about getting to that point so if i get going i can be more direct about my ideas about the future. >> moderator: have you learned anything? bush: that substance abuse is an issue i have always known that because we dealt with such a huge tragedy that people talk about and i have learned about heroin addiction and new hampshire that is imported with serious problems and you go to other places with amphetamine we do have a soft underbelly in the country. there is a lot of challenges because they know we have been involved with it as governor teeeighteen we will continue the discussion.

coming up with our "conversation with the candidate" series we have senator ted cruz and while we sign-off eighth from television and don't forget this conversation continues of line with another 30 minutes of questions and commercial free. they give for watching. have a great night. [applause] ♪

teeeighteen good evening. welcome to your "conversation with the candidate" our guest is senator ted cruz. we will get to know where he stands idle last candidates question is then we will bring in the studio audience.

it is a town hall style format the first let's look at the canada is biographies. >> ted - - ted cruz born in alberta canada in 1970 but moved to texas and was the first hispanic to avert a clerk for the united states justice of the supreme court served as a director of this a policy planning at the trade commission and also at the department of justice and the solicitor general of texas as well as an attorney at a private firm. he taught u.s. supreme court litigation as the head job professor at university of texas school of law and author of more than 80 u.s. supreme court briefs and argue 43 oral arguments including nine for the u.s. supreme court. republican elected to 2012 considers himself to be a passion fighter and in increased economic growth. his wife was in houston with their daughters.

>> moderator: good to see you. so we will start with this you were born and canada. any questions? >> no serious questions but u.s. law was defined a child of a u.s. citizen born abroad as the natural citizen by birth that is what the constitution requires for what has come up a number of times. john mccain was born in panama. mitt romney's dad was born in mexico as the parents were missionaries and barry goldwater was born in arizona before arizona was a state is still a territory so the questions come up if it is a but for those that don't know is that national

persona to go very far to the right to but will not reach across cio. is that accurate? >> had both taken a one is surprised they do not provide a fair picture this is what i said the day i was elected. in fact, i will compromise with marshes of they shrink to hammer in the future of arab territory. what i tried to do is common-sense principles. bay -- john boehner wrote our kids is institutions because only in washington d.c. they are viewed as

radical or extreme proposition it doesn't matter buy you ask if you agree with the proposition. those are basic common sense values. >> moderator: the major issue in this race is national security people are talking about arming those to combat this situation. what is your take as commander in chief what is your approach? cruz: the above a clinton foreign policy is a manifest disaster and does not work. beating from behind what that has resulted in today's friends and enemies don't trust us. one of the first things obama and returned the bust of churchill to the u.k. to say this is the kind of administration you will see. look at the relationship with the nation of israel

will never receive up president more antagonistic to the nation as this president including just a few months ago president obama boycotting prime minister addressed to the jury session of congress. on the flip side, our enemies do not fear us from every region of the world has got worse all across the globe we see isis not long after the present dismiss them as junior varsity. there the face to beat their crucifying christians, be heading children and journalist. >> moderator: what do you do? cruz: we need up president who will stand up for national security interests and confront the evil that we face you cannot win a war of radical islamic terrorism with the president and willing to utter the words a radical islamic terrorism.

we look at this bizarre doublespeak were those words are never uttered he will not define that evil we're facing. we need a president who will stand up to say we will defeat those radical islamic terrorism now what that should entail is overwhelming that power to distresses. number two, we should arm the kurds right now they're fighting isis. they have of weaponry they seized from iraq the kurds are fighting without class weaponry and this administration refuses to arm them instead they scented to baghdad and will not let the kurds have it they are disarmed ground but the problem is we have not set the objective to destroy

isis and have had a commander in chief who pursues it seriously teeeighteen you have a very soft-spoken president of the above dash critic of the president. [laughter] did his eight years has he done anything right? cruz: sure. would he was elected not a person in america was not hopeful he could be a transformational figure to bring us together he had the inspiring personal story first african american president of this country he had the potential to have enormous impact to heal racial relations and campaigned claiming there was not read states or blue states but the united states and we hope that is what we would see. part of the reason it is so disappointing is there was promise by yet he has proven to be the most partisan and divisive president we have never seen.

he has governed like a hard core leftist cheering through policies that have hurt millions of americans. has he done anything good? we're all very glad the united states for a night and we support that took far too long but i will tell you a washington, president obama but if you want to have been interesting conversation rand the tv camera is not on. get the white house to complain and then just as it alone with, it is why almost everything he has done this through executive order.

>> moderator: will take to prepare break then go to the audience. stay with us. ♪ >> moderator: will comeback to "conversation with the candidate" tonight's guest is senator ted cruz. >> when it comes to the discussion of integration republicans are labelled anti-immigration and i believe the biggest problem is the current system is prohibitive would reduce support the integration policy similar to the modern-day ellis island? cruz: absolutely when it comes to immigration i am short-term pessimistic long-term optimistic the reason is there is a lot of bipartisan agreement outside

of washington her outside of washington there is enormous bipartisan agreement we have to get serious to secure the border and stop illegal immigration and there is considerable phew agreement to streamline legal immigration and remain a nation that doesn't just welcome but celebrates legal immigrants. i am the son of an immigrant who came 58 years ago legally and with my dad came from cuba, he could not speaking this was $100 own into his underwear he was present and tortured he came here to pay his way through school $0.50 an hour today he is the pastor. we are all the children of immigrants. we all the children of those who risked everything for freedom and of the way to

resolve immigration but president obama and senate democrats are not trying to solve the problem but instead seeking partisan division focusing on amnesty and a pathway to citizenship. that is what i hope to do in 2017 to pass common sense immigration. >> moderator: in thank you for the question. next? >> good evening. welcome to new hampshire. speaking on behalf of senior american social security with the current funding will go lot of money about 18 years from now so what do you have a plan for to make sure that does not happen to

secure for today's seniors and future generations? cruz: we have to have a total reform. washington is doing right now is reckless. it is letting social security and medicare growth go towards insolvency and bankruptcy. leadership needs to step in to save and preserve and strengthen social security. the way to do so those are fundamental bulwarks but number one for those who were on social security or near retirement there should be no changes. we made promises people have their financial affairs the need to honor those commitments. for younger workers and i am 44 if you talk to people of my generation it is hard to find someone in their 20's or '30's or 40's could believe social security will be there for them.

that is an opportunity for reform if you have a couple of generations understand it isn't working, with leadership for the long term for your and degenerations. number one to gradually raise the retirement age. when fdr signed social security retirement age was 65 and average life expectancy was 62 and now we live north of 70 years we need to gradually raise the retirement age to get people the time to plan and second we need to change the rate of growth of social security benefits overmatches inflation rather than exceeds that. but third and this is the piece that is most important , for your workers we need to give them the opportunity to take a portion of their tax payments to go into a personal account that they

own and control that grows at the compound rate of interest that they can use themselves to pass on to their kids or grandkids about how we preserved to major social security is there not just for seniors but grand kids and grandkids but just have leadership in washington and right now you don't prepare you don't have people willing to take off the hard issues to work together with common sense solutions. >> hello. what more can be done to implement the affordable care act in rural areas or inner cities? cruz: thinking for the question. it isn't a great secret i am not a man of the cloth. five 1/2 years

obamacare reasonable minds think it is a good idea. after we have seen five years of implementation, there is a reason obamacare has 37 percent approval nationwide the single biggest job killer in america millions have lost their jobs, forced into part-time work, lost health-insurance, lost their doctors andesine premiums skyrocket. as you will recall the president promised if you like your health insurance you can keep it. millions of americans learned that promise was not true as insurance was canceled. likewise the president promised obamacare will over the average family premium by 25 per dollars. i am willing to say right now anyone who has seen their premiums go down i encourage you to vote for the democrats.

on the other side we will take the remaining super majority. what should redo? one i think we should repeal every word of wrote -- obamacare it is the essence out of pragmatism and let's revealed and start over. part of that question what i think health care reform issue empower patients to key bureaucrats from getting between us and our jobs. how to redo that? we have specific policies and the number one got people to purchase health insurance across state lines that has said true marketplace the biggest barrier to access if you want more access and lower-cost but what does

obamacare do prexy resources. second, expand health savings accounts so people can save for more routine medical care. third, work to separate health insurance from employment. is an historical that health insurance that is linked to employment coming out of world war ii with wage and price controls and employers could not recruit with higher wages so they began offering health insurance that is favored. but the problem is that the the order in '04 but then they have to watch and it bush higher. we've moved from city to city and if we lose our jobs

, we don't lose our life insurance or car insurance or house insurance. no reason on earth it is the worst because that is what creates much of the problem of pre-existing conditions then they to get to the new policy. we need health care reform makes it personal and portable and affordable. >> moderator: this comes from social media. are you on facebook? >> what is sure stands on common core? cruz: that is easy i am categorically opposed. we need to repeal every word. education is far too important to be covered by unelected bureaucrats in washington and. education should be at the state level or local level. heidi and i have two little

girls four and six for every one of dozens there is curriculum taught that does not make sense or reflect your values it does that get the job done if it is the bureaucrat that decides that common knighted darn thing you can do about it. they don't care with the individual citizen things but if it is the school board you could go up and you can speaking out. and then to throw the bums out with accountability at the local level. >> is there any room for a baseline standard test? cruz: baselines could be reasonable for state or local governments to make it should not be the federal government.

some folks of the left say repeal common core but it is nonsense no one is paying attention to what the administration is doing because they use race to the top funds to covers a state to implement standards under federal standards. if the state of new hampshire decides that it is reasonable you can have a debate how to structure them and the standards are have to be the same as arizona. you can make different decisions but it should not be the federal government. >> next question. >> what you think of the supreme court decision of some decisions united? to support the call for the executive order to called dark money into the light? cruz: there are lot of complicated issues.

the big principle as i am passionate about the united states constitution and have spent almost my entire adult life fighting badge but the very first amendment protects free speech. campaign finance reform unfortunately is an issue people misunderstand because sinn played with our lot of truth from politicians everytime campaign finance reform laws are passed, it is by incumbent politicians and their intended effect is to help incumbent politicians. right now the current system you have strict limits on how much can be given to a particular candidate but that benefits those who are incumbents without massive apparatus it hurts the challengers for toward interesting story from ed

rollins and describes how reagin at the time was in california they're a small businessmen, not like bill gates tightness but successful and they sat down with him to say you share our principles what will it take for you to be elected of governor of california? he said between two and three a million dollars. those businessmen wrote checks for 300,000 each year and raised money in one city and though small-business been changed a beverly the fate of the world. jfk had a handful of donors that come together if you put those massive restrictions in place, it stifles the challengers out

the super pac you divination fact put the current system is stupid. everybody has the super pac and if they share is more money you are now added to talk to the super back so it supports my campaign i assume they will run ads but i hope they say something vaguely resembling what i believe. it is idiocy nobody would design a system with the bulk of the communication from the third party that cannot even talk to the candidate with a super pac elimination act is that he eliminated the of the mets individuals can give to candidates. what that word to functionally it would be reported of 24 hours since

they were trying to buy influence but i am a big believer number one in free-speech providing citizens united was straightforward application of the first amendment. how many people here know the facts? i bet virtually nobody. >> citizens united. >> made a movie criticizing every clinton proposes in united is a case that broke - - rose as the obama administration dared to make a movie critical of a candidate michael moore has every first amendment right to criticize me all day long the government should find moviemakers for book publishers but to empower the free-speech of american citizens. that is what i believe sunshine is the best

disinfectant to in power citizens. >> i believe it was correctly decided consistent with the first amendment of the constitution and it should have been nine o four during to raychem movie budget. >> 80 for the pressure those of the time we have no but our "conversation with the candidate" don't forget about governor jindal this covers asian will continue with senator cruz continues of mine as always you will find 30 minutes of questions from the studio audience. and all of its commercial free. thanks for watching. have a great night.

from martha washington to michelle obama sunday 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 3.

ranging from land development to discharges into streams then rivers we are bringing a pair of top experts to explain the context and remaining question is do explain the future and the impacted as part of the mission for better economic social and environmental occam's to research education to make environmental progress real by examining u.s. law or educating judges in 25 countries are working with partners to strengthen the of management of water and energy efficiency measures it is non-partisan and by bringing all perspectives to the table we can achieve those results those are at

the heart of the ongoing effort to articulate the scope of the federal jurisdiction and it is a tough issue with those high-profile trips to the supreme court in ranges to discuss will begin with an overview of the rule of those who come from other perspectives will provide their thoughts below the 45 minutes for dialogue so please send in your questions or the audience use of microphone when ready. the deputy assistant administrator of the epa bill oversees the water program prior to you joining can held several senior positions with infrastructure and a senate committee proposed a you so much. >> thank you to all of you.

congress created the cleaner water act that defined simply as the waters in the u.s. states including the territorial seas although that is defined waters of the united states is not the clean water act as one definition of water is protected by all of the programs with cities and industry under section four '02 permitting for the material under section four of four a and a real and hazardous wastes build under section 311 among the others all these programs have the stated objective to restore the biological integrity of the nation's waters. cambrai's left it to the epa to define the term and the existing regulations as interstate waters and of others that don't affect

commerce like with the territorial seas. the supreme court reviewed the definition of waters of the united states three times through 2006 them protection of those with millions of acres of wetland has been confusing and complex. in 1985 the supreme court addressed the united states for the first time in a case that involved wetlands to navigable water in a supreme court opinion upheld the definition to talk about the integrated nature of the ecosystem the importance of wetlands and the court observed protecting ecosystems of has broad authority for water moves in cycles and it is essential that discharge be controlled at the source.

'' keep in mind the clean water act is up prevention stature to that the supreme court held that the use of isolated nine navigable waters on interstate pons' like migratory birds was not in and of itself a sufficient basis to seek jurisdiction and the agency stopped doing so he immediately following. the court also noted that if found congress' concern for the protection of water quality and ecosystems indicated the intent to regulate wetlands with the waters of the united states savate it was the significant neck says that in form to the reading of the clean water act from the previous case in 1985. with that case did not validate the regulations it emphasizes a relationship with those that our

navigable for intersection and also introduced the concept -- the concept that in 2006 the supreme court discover the scope of waters in the decisions that involve women's to the navigable waters than robb of members agreed the term wotus was beyond but since that the nine justices manage year of there five separate opinions. has to cover relatively permanent standing bodies of water project will with the welland with permanent borders. of the of plurality reference did not

necessarily exclude streams or rivers or lakes that could drive up such as drought or seasonal rivers which has continuous flow during some months but nine during the dry months. justice kennedy encompass says wetlands with a significant neck says that are or were navigable that could be so. and stated that the wetlands have a significant texas either alone or a combination civic elite affect the biological integrity more readily understood as inevitable justice kennedy reports it could be more than speculative neither the plurality of any of those

provisions but we have three court cases and that did not address it. redid the rule because is stemming from the last supreme court cases put to provide clarity on what waters are projected. there was a lot of confusion we have five opinions and a request came from members of congress with state and local officials me deserves extraction in developers and builders, scientist in the general public. second - - three americans

rely on a seasonal streams for drinking water and brought clearly protected today her purvey have many to set after that over two-thirds of what from those other plotters not protected. while some state restrictions are easier to overcome than others but they're not taking action and. what does the rule to? the clean water rules for checks stream said well as other shot of the greatest impact on downstream water quality to form a foundation of resources. the epa ensure that waters protected under the clean water act more precisely defined determined, and

easy to understand and consistent with a lot. the clean water rule creates eight category six jurisdictional by role, and to better subject to raise significant excess that the analysis is first so for the interstate waters and empire and there is no change from the current roll. of the clean water rules for checks to the cherries in to have their in there because the rule says the ratio of physical features but the of

shelter provides a connection and the effect on the downstream waters. the rules provide certainty how far safeguards extend to protect those next year rivers and tributaries because science shows the impact of mr. waters but for the first time to set boundaries on nearby waters better physical and measurable. those are the six areas that our jurisdictional by rule now the two that our specific to the case and what to emphasize that to date under the current rule there is a case specific analysis based on determining if there's the effect on interstate commerce a new test from the supreme court if there is a nexus of a connection between the upstream water and downstream water and if there is the ability to have a significant effect from upstream through downstream. science shows pacific water

features can function like a system to impact the health so the first water subject our five regional waters and identified the california and texas wetland but only when the impact downstream waters and to determine the impact the function of these features will be evaluated in their watershed but they will be subject to the analysis. the second category are within the 100 year flood plain with that nexus more herb bread lines and transparent the new rule

focus is on streams providing protection from the ditches that can carry pollution and downstream. and it is not covered otherwise. it maintains the status quo from the storm sewer systems and with the continuing use of the infrastructure. it could be put through a case specific analysis. >> said new rules significantly creates clarity and certainty to limit the situated waters. it maintains a and expands the exclusions but it also

adds ground water and gullies and on wetlands as excluded but finally other features such as the stock pond is excluded those to come by the clean water act it protects water it does not regulate groundwater it does not change the policies are regulations or water transfers. in the end we have a rule based on science deadlines for the supreme court decision with the expertise of epa and strength as the clean water act to the benefit of the american people.

thank you. >> next we will hear from the deputy general counsel from civil works of the department of the army to provide legal advice to the secretary of the army for land and facilities in environmental law of with the issues remain to the u.s. army corps of engineer regulatory programs it is day distinguished career in we're grateful he survived to make it here. [laughter] >> one thing we probably need is a reliable measure as much as clean water. first of all thanks to the entire team to arrange today's seminar we welcome everybody anne person and on the phone this afternoon. to be timely and essential

it is so critical for everyone weather and an opponent or a supporter, to have a solid understanding of what rule does and does not do. river upon the hill with the house side with the preamble and the 20008 chitin's. et alarmists may a better opinion but they don't understand the rule and it is a sad state for federal i would not repeated but keep my comments brief and tight. but let me be clear.

we believe this rule is good for the nation it is timely and relevant it is needed to restore and maintain one of the over most viable of resources which is the abundance of clean water. in preparing for today's seminar if we put a role to ourselves by a camera press is pretty tightly in the article anyone that has an interest in this particular time may for what we're talking about today that the article was entitled history of this 72 feedwater act the story behind that act became the capstone on a decade of

debt much dash environmental reform. to observe and 2012 that many of the current issues have a familiar ring to them i will not bore you with the specifics but i will say each has been on the forefront of our discussion here through 2015 as we approached the rule. and he does correctly that these and this is because the need to swim and his magic has important as

though one day? >> one thing if found interesting and not being a historian or inexpert i found that in 1972 then in the 87 amendments there was significant political controversy associated with the clean water act. . .