recruiting is going on in the years from isis and what kind of actions might be taking your? >> i'm very uncomfortable. i do want to be an alarmist, but i've asked the fbi and the intelligence community in the last days whether they're concerned about a specific threat in the july 4 period, the answer has been no, we have no credible specific threat. just read the messaging. it appeals to lone wolves, go out to dozens of times a day and our manifestoes about how to make weapons, how to disguise your communications, how to hide, how to kill. it's all out there. ..

day after day working with the information in you know where it does not alter that would be more worried than i am now. i think united states is a big place and there are communities i now travel through in my shovels through the united nation which i see people had never seen before. i'm not suggesting they are terrorists because i thought they looked like a terrorist. the ability to find someone in

the united states is not as easy as everyone thinks. one of the reasons you can find somebody is because they are hiding. as a result the grinding work to just keep after it is extraordinary important to contribute towards dhs every day. >> we will end with judge webster. >> bill webster with homeland security advisory council. michael is one about perseverance. i can't help but think back to the early days of desert shield when we had to beg for permission to land troops to help our friends in saudi arabia who said you land and you always leave. and not highly tribal area i am wondering where we stand on their send of our perseverance

when they come in to help in a piecemeal way with on the ground and other things of the kind we have this problem and what can we do about it if we really want to leave them out of this world. thank you. >> you sound like you might've been a direct your other cia at one point. >> that's an incredibly important question. the engagement with people i've made reference to before must be engagement be on the turnover of officers we have so frequently in the united states and our government in washington and it must be expression of the commitment to lead the cia do all the time because we do stale this time. but it is important to many countries to deal with to know no matter how bad it gets that we have the guys to stay with it. we haven't been very good about the last number of years.

it would be my assessment reflected in the low attendance at the camp david accord on middle east policy in middle east redirection. i don't think you can understate the importance of what you describe. i don't think you can understate every now and then a president if we could never do that anymore reinsurer in the head of the nation became the monarch the prime minister that says these things do happen but we are not going to win. if i was asked once i was at 15 times by prime ministers and chief of staff. you know i'm not going anywhere in the cia never goes anywhere. first of all every single army officer in pakistan remembers the famous chrysler amendment wrote him off after a decade.

you have hit on something important to the united states and we must encourage in our people, new people in government from the rank urged the people and just stay after. i don't think you underestimate the value you describe. >> david how do we do that in the general public and press enter us to set allergic. >> i'm talking about contacts and commitment that does not mean 100,000 u.s. troops. i'm talking about the appearance of people when things are bad to say we need a favor from you. does go far longer than to show up with 100,000 troops. >> i agree with that. nonetheless, we have to do with the u.s. public apart from the solomon and the congress part of it in the administration that does not want to be on many levels. >> i have been encouraged that a

president who passionately wanted to get out of this period of involvement in places like iraq and syria realize it is impossible and as i said at the beginning has basically the right policy. i said these allergic but he is trying to work with prime minister abadi, in an attempt to coordinate policy. i will close by remembering some in the syrian foreign minister said after president break-in decided to pull american forces out of beirut tonight tdd 3-1984. the americans are sure to arise.

i think that is when the idf began to settle in the minds of the middle east and the subsequent instance of shortness of breath reinforces that. each moment where he doesn't want to be there but he is there. so maybe over time as the idea that we are more persistent than people might think also. >> i wish we had my time. we have a lot of other questions. i would like to thank david and steve for the terminus in sight and i hope we can have you back some time. >> thank you are a match. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> i am hopeful at some point congress will take on immigration because it is still very, very important. frankly i don't know the exact number, but when we have some of the innovators here, the researchers here, we have models of the world that make contributions for scientists and engineers. other companies as well. when you look at a job to. >> the complication is actually to collect mosquitoes that have bitten people and determine what

kind of virus has made me around, what diseases might be around through taking the blood samples at the mosquitoes than figuring out the genetics code of the constituents of their blood. >> the premise of this research project was around what we would be able to do with data that is freely available at environment today. one of the things we've noticed is a lot of aircraft flying around in the united states that could be considered in third. they had data on them. they are providing information and its relatively freely available provided by the faa america means who use the information to provide information to the community about what airplanes are doing. we decided to take the information and see if we could use that to predict a more

accurate lots. winds of law. what the wind is doing in terms of speed and direction of various altitudes of the earth. >> house transportation subcommittee and rail roads, pipelines and hazardous materials public hearing to consider status of positive train control implementation. positive train control provides accident prevention technology to automatically stop or slow train down. the hearing caught in the wake of the deadly train accident in philadelphia this year. witnesses discussed the status of ptc, positive train control on the passenger rail network and how close the respective companies and organizations are two compliance. the current deadline for full ptc implementation is december 31st of this year.

>> are hearing today will focus on the implementation of ptc positive train control of the united states one of the most complex and costly mandates ever taken by the railroad industry. positive train control is a radio or gps-based system to automatically control trains to follow speed limit and avoid train to train collisions. following the deadly commuter train crash in southern california, congress mandated the deletion online for certain hazardous materials are carried on an atlanta which commuter which commuter rail services operate. the recent tragic amtrak crash in philadelphia has reminded us while the accidents are rare they can happen in ptc will make our rail network safer. the mandate was included in the rail safety and improvement act of 2008 congress and implementation deadline of december 31st of this year.

from the beginning of ptc mandate was owing to be a daunting undertaking to consider what completely implemented ttc will require a 38,000 interfaces, 18,000 locomotives up rated 12 dozen signals replace. while similar systems that just in europe and some portions of the northeast corridor, ptc has never been implemented on a scale and and a number required a high level interoperability. since the 2008 and it was enacted, they have spent the last seven years working to implement ptc according to the association freight rail has spent 5.7 billion today and expected to spend a total of 9 billion to fully implement. the american public transportation association estimated the revenues will spend more than 3.5 billion ptc.

in addition the complexities of the system have bad many unexpected delays. the process of approving polls along railroad right-of-way was delayed significantly when the federal communications commission mandated each ball go through next sensitive review process. he eventually created a process for the approvals and we'll hear from from them today about housework. they have also struggled to buy the necessary raiders bactrim from ptc especially in our dense metropolitan areas. today we will discuss how long it will take to get pt the implemented across the country and what it will take to meet the current deadline. closing out forward to hearing from witnesses regarding issues than i would now like to recognize ranking member michael capuano for any opening statement he may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm looking forward to your testimony and the discussion we

have. the chairman is that anything they need to say from our end of it. honestly, this is long overdue in my estimation and i'd like to find out if we all know where they are today, tell me how we get where we want to be as quickly as we can because that's what america wants and what i want and if you need federal assistance, please say so. the clear. we have earned differences of opinion as to whether we should put funds that were not initially showed, you should say so. i would like to hear that. i look back and look forward to the testimony. >> i called the full committee chairman. >> thank you for holding hearings today and it's important to start by saying the number one priority of the committee and the department of transportation is safety. trends have gotten the right direction over the past years. however the terrible amtrak incident in philadelphia showed us we should always remain

focused on efforts to improve rail safety. as chairman denham said a positive train control is one of the most ambitious complex, costly safety enhancements the railroad industry has undertaken. i was ranking member of the subcommittee in 2000 congress enacted the ptc mandate. we know it would be challenging but we helped railroads of meet the deadline seven years into the future. unfortunately we know today that will not be the case. with few exceptions most railroads will not meet december's deadline. this has happened or appeared to elegies more complicated between the railroads. and finally the federal communications commission's approval process for renewed

telecommunication poles was not set up to handle the tens of thousands pulled needed to deploy ptc. looking forward to hearing today the witnesses for the implementation stand and your testimony will help us consider how we move forward today with the mandate and an appropriate appropriate fashion. without any of that. >> now mr. defazio for an opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. are you sure your microphone is open? couldn't hear you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> we are going to focus on the extension of the deadline. it is clear the class once will meet the deadline and some passenger rail will not make the deadline. but this was not a knee-jerk reaction and that is a very long time in the making. 45 years since ntsb first

recommended in the idea of positive train control. they had on their most wanted list temporarily removed after the passage of the legislation in 2008 but it was put back on when it was clear that the deadlines were going to be mad. bush is revisited by wicked death. it was a compilation of accidents over the years, including in particular one in 2005 was the release of chlorine gas. i dozen people evacuated, eight people died, 554 were injured. the ntsb said times they've never seen anything like it.

this was caused by human error in the switch. and not ptc that involved it would not happen. this is a time of passage. 6700 injuries over the past 45 years would've been presented with ptc. we passed it. it took place after house passage which led the senate to change its position and they started out with 2018 of the deadline and they were pushing the behest of the two california senators 2014 compromised in 2015 is something that could be achievable. unfortunately we are going to meet the deadline in many cases. congress is helping some of the

real focus is grave. the president asked for a billion dollars. $150 million grant but since 2010 nothing has been allocated by congress. for freight to have the x lens. but it's a business expense for passenger rail, nonprofit passenger rail is an expense which is hard to pass up but that is pretty much what they have to do with the local operating jurisdictions. chris could be helpful as we will hopefully hear more about that today. and yet our colleagues on the appropriations committee doesn't quite take the same view of these issues as we do. we are more in line on this issue. actually cut amtrak capitol cribs by $290 million the day after the accident and other things those grant fund in addition the critical of her structure which is likely to cause other accidents.

bridge collapse if it needs an incredible amount of investment. eric, very shortsighted. i would observe we get a man to the moon after president kennedy when they issued a challenge. it only took eight years and that was one year or the mts be first asked for positive train control. i know we can do it. we just need to hear today what impediments remain and what can we do tax but i the installation across all of the system in the critical categories we define a toxic immolation routes included in addition to the other heavily used routes. i look forward to the testimony. i would urge the committee to take further action that says we need to take steps to get this

done. >> thank you mr. defazio. i would like to welcome our panel of witnesses. sarah feinberg, federal rail administration sra and pay a special thanks for you have continued to come before the committee. obviously number of big issues the committee is addressing then you have not wavered as far as coming before and answering difficult questions. we thank you for being here this morning. mr. charles mathias, fcc mr. frank lonegro vice president csx corporation mr. donald orseno come executive director and chief executive officer metro commuter rail and russell kerwin, deputy project manager metrolink. i ask unanimous consent the full statement be included in the record without objection some order. subcommittee request to keep

your statement limited to five minutes. without coming to recognize. >> thank you chairman denham from a ranking member defazio members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear to discuss implementation of positive train control in the united states. the ptc technology is arguably the single most important railroad safety development in more than a century. the technology is not new. elements of ptc have existed since the early 20th century. regulators and safety advocate have been calling on the industry to implement some form of ptc for many decades. the ntsb since 1969. the red safety improvement act of two does they require the functionality of positive train control to be implemented by december 31 2015.

it is required for any toxic insulation materials transported. it is required of any railroad mainline or regularly scheduled intercity or commuter rail passenger services conduct it. following passage of the ptc mandate in two dozen eight rabbit committed ptc implementation plans in 2010. this plan played out a path forward that would allow each railroad to meet the deadline. as i stated before safety of the federal breve of the menace ration top priority good rail system is not the full implementation of ptc. it requires a full implementation of positive train control that is why fra will force the 21st deadline for implementation as congress has mandated. for several years and founded the alarm that most roads have not made sufficient progress in

implementing ptc. in the seven years since passage of the mandate, sra has dedicated resources and guide implementation. retired staff and work directly to reserved spectrum issues and the approval communication towers. we have $50 million in grant funds to support implementation. this includes recovering reinvestment act and we've requested 150 million for railroads initiative $967 million on through the program to new york mr. politan transportation authority, the nation's largest commuter

railroad. the task force team within the fra. each railroad's progress and we have the most accurate this works of the many individual sensor array based in washington and offices around the country already working on the challenge. unfortunately despite the financial support technical assistance and mornings have stated publicly they will still not meet the december 31st deadline. recently asked for a received updated information about ptc implementation from 32 of the 30 of railroads we are currently tracking from enforcement services. initial analysis has completed or partially completed installations of approximately half of the locomotives they require ptc equipment to play

half of the wayside units and replace half of signals replacement had completed most of the required mapping for tracks. by the end of the year, aar projects 39% will be a quiet was 76% of interface unit installed, 67 radios installed in 34% required employees will be trained. according to the 29% of commuter route wrote targeted to complete installation of ptc equipment by the end of 2015. paul implementation for commuter lines is projected by 2020. fra continues her to finalize strategy for those trailers that missed the deadline. within a regulatory posture our ultimate goal is to bring all brown road as quickly as safely as possible. starting january 1st fra one

post penalties finally based on the ptc penalty guideline which establishes different penalties such as violation. the penalties may be assessed per violation per day. the total amount of penalty each railroad faces depends upon the amount of implementation progress the railroad has made. as far as planning for what will come after the january 1st deadline. in the 2014 and 2015 the department and fra asked congress to provide fra with additional authorities that address the safety gap that will exist on many railroad between january 1st 2016 in each railroad implementation. these additional authorities provide fra with the ability to review, approve and require in room safety measures for railroads that may fail to meet the ptc guidelines. the center and safety

requirements would be to initial railroads read the bar and safety if they missed the deadline but will not and cannot be used to extend the deadline. in conclusion i want to extend my thanks and appreciation for the attention of focus on achieving implementation as efficiently and quickly as possible. we look forward to working with you and i'm happy to risk onto your questions. thank you. >> ms. feinberg, mr. mathias, you may proceed. >> thank you ranking member denham, capuano, ranking member defazio misting the shores of the subcommittee for allowing me to testify here today. and i can ask a player microphone closer. >> promoting life and property to the use of radio communication is the top sec priority. as a communication agency they

have freedom passenger railroads. we also manage the statutory required historic preservation and environmental reviews of the polls on tennis and associated infrastructure used to support positive train control systems. because it was given no mandate to set aside the ftc has working as to the need to identify spectrum on the secondary market. the fcc has acted swiftly upon request to approve multiple spectrum transactions including the freight rail about the ocean nationwide come in tracks acquisition in the northeast corridor as well as waivers to better enable and has ptc deployment. to be clear the commission plays no role in designing or assessing the choice of technology. the railroads are responsible for the design and deployment. they led the way in securing spectrum for private transactions they acquired

nationwide spectrum in the commercial 222222 spectrum band month before the act became law. brothers quickly focused on utilizing when the mandate was established. they drove other rivers including commuter rails two spectrum in and around the 220 megahertz band for their operations as well. most of the country the strategy appears to have been successful. the sec has practically facilitated and continues to phyllis at freight and passenger ran a successful acquisition on secondary markets. we've also granted the rim is extensive technical waivers transmitter power to facilitate the use of ptc purposes. spectrum acquisition in the northeast corridor differs the rest of the country against amtrak was applying to different ptc systems not from the outside engineered to be compatible and

the things dr. band. unlike in america such as chicago tell us that the rebbe was sure the same talk of spectrum in the northeast corridor to deploy the system requires two bucks a spectrum far enough apart to avoid interference. sec staff will work with amtrak commuter rail studies the system in the northeast corridor entries to identify solutions to problems. ptc infrastructure deployments are also a priority. federal, environmental and historic preservation requires the fcc to assess the impact of ages the undertakings including potential impact on property significant tribal nations. to facilitate the process their counsel issues streamline rules for future ptc deployment. under the streamlined approach majority proposed rules are

exempt from historic preservation review. the commission has capacity to receive 1400 exempt the nonexempt applications from the major railroads every two weeks. by the middle agenda rather as good as committed as many as 40,000 for review. the river is around 8300 polls for 21 of total capacity. going forward issues the northeast corridor remain complex. we stand ready to work with amtrak, commuter rails and freight rail stared across the country to help keep their evolving deployment needs. we appreciate the subcommittee's commitment and leadership on the issue and a first sure deployment of ptc systems. the sec is committed to working cooperatively with kong grabs our federal partners and the bread was to get the job done. i look forward to answering any questions you may have.

>> thank you mr. mathias. now ms. brown to introduce our next witness mr. lonegro. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm pleased to introduce mr. frank lonegro. you can correct that name when it's your time who will be testifying in the hometown of jacksonville florida. frank has worked for csx since 2000, focused on technology issues and taken the lead for the class one train control initiative. csx is a major role in the jacksonville community name award for her to. let me say i'm very proud of the program on train wounded warrior program.

they've received two years in a row the top award from the president for over 33% of their employees federated. with that, i want to welcome frank and the other panelists in thank you for joining us today. >> ranking member brown, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here. i am frank lonegro, vice president of service designed in css. as the passage of the mandate has been the project donor for ptc at csx. i chaired the committee tasked with interoperability across 60,000 miles of railroad. given the recent tragedy remembering all those impacted by accident i believe for issues are presented for resolution by the committee. number one, why are most relevant unable to meet ptc by 2015. where huber was able to make 2015 while the remainder cannot. the ptc convention is not passed

on what is the path forward. since pdc was mandated, accidents have happened that were preventable. a turnkey system did not exist and had to be created. the task continues. as one of the red rose every day, but do reflect briefly on accountability. i'm ultimately responsible for ptc at csx and will not be completed by the deadline. this is not the result of lack of will or commitment to the contrary good csx has provided ample funding and executive support. where hundreds of millions of dollars over budget if csx has never hesitated capital. companies do not fail of projects achievable from the house. congress shares to 2015 deadline not grounded in fact it was a political compromise reached after various constituents in the senate and house advocate for 2012, 2014 and 2018.

the compromise gave us 2015 apolitical take not necessarily an achievable day. fra come fcc in the community industry has thousands working and a dozen. the final rule is publishing hundreds of pages of regulations six years after the mandate. fra requires significant documentation from the safety assessment of faulty analyses geared towards deploying a system but also required a tremendous amount of time and effort on both sides. from anticipated the regulatory requirements related to tcp powers when sec realize they would impose a moratorium to develop a better process. the moratorium entered the timeline over a year. the resulting process appears to be working. fcc has approved the waiver in agreement. college is complicated into greater emphasis on speed given

that much work remains especially solving a ptc interference in the northeast. grassley given the complexity of the task and supplier partners to hit a deadline for software free from defects in the beginning we all believe ptc was further along. if you have a syndicated the metrolink in the l.a. basin and corridor had previously promised completion in 2012. they illustrate the challenges of ptc for small deployments. successful completion will be a testament and great leadership like errol maxey are two main reasons why some of us make 2015 while others will not. the first is scale. in track and measure the deployments are similar in size to 10150 inches and 30500 miles of railroad. in contrast to put them in above 3900 engines of 11,000 miles of railroad about 25 times larger.

more inches to my miles as far time. second is the legacy infrastructure. technology does not interface with dispatching systems and is requiring us to replace 7500 miles of wayside signals coming geospatial is not an enhanced with dispatching system 2,110,000 of the mile. all deliveries passengers had months where finished will no longer be her father's railroad. guerrillas had a serious legal dilemma. the mandate makes it illegal to transport tah tah commodities irrespective of common carrier obligation. were also required to allow passenger agencies to run lines in which law should be baile. the passenger requirement for ptc mandate. we cannot transfer commodities or passengers by about the outcome is not good for the american people are economy. simply hold the mandate we will

be in violation of the law and run the risk of enforcement potential and kept liability and insurance coverage and untenable situation and its employees and shareholders. the need for extension is clear. how to fashion extension that recognizes the enormity or words railroads and make 2015 while the remaining bravos accountable to completed expeditiously and provide legal certainty for shippers passengers and members alike. we look forward to that path. thank you. >> thank you mr. lonegro. mr. orseno, we've met several times already. if i butchered your name like i've are deep and twice corrected by colleagues, please let us know. >> thank you mr. denham and members of the subcommittee. i'd like to thank congressman

lipinski from a representative on the subcommittee and appreciate your trip leadership and transportation to and deal of mistrust elected leader will committee. i was lucky enough to be an engineer i was very proud of. proud of endeavors a day. it's an enormous responsibility i didn't take late the is no engineer does. a few years ago i was appointed executive director of the metro connect to both experiences early in my career to my physician now. i may be clear, safety is paramount and to that end we are implementing ptc. that may also declare another item is not without challenges. metro is one of the largest rest of the country. last year we provided 83.1 million passenger trips. we primarily serve customers committing for the suburbs to work in chicago. we operate 241 stations. for those clients owned and operated by the upn bn.

the nation's busiest rail hub and most complex operating throughout the network. coordination of implementation must include all of israel. they were further along with ptc installations and massively directed all of our resources to put equipment on the train operating so they can be compliant with. those lines once operational 40% of the fleet will be ptc compliance 50% of passengers. the installation will be complete september 2015 with the bp following closely behind the second quarter of 2016. we also make significant progress. today we hire a system integration team and the word firms to design signals to upgrade and continued the necessary staff including leadership position in field installations cruise.

even though we've made substantial progress and challenges are still remaining. the limited number of signal designs to send spectrum availability in chicago is on determine if we have enough for ptc needs in the region. we won't know the answer until the second study was completed. continuous testing process of the reliability and accuracy of ptc. so far testing of individual segments has taken place. they must operate in the interoperability is a huge challenge for chicago given the complexity in the end of her city untrue in system. the cost are $350 million estimates 3.5 billion for all commuter railroads. we receive approximately $159 in formal funds. these are the same sources used are related critical infrastructure projects such as bridges, tracks show has

allocated 133 million over the last two years for ptc between state and federal partners. the measure board approved a $2.4 billion modernization plan last year which included 275 million to come be ptc which is a combination of borrowing and fair increases. the balance comes from state and federal partners which is uncertain at this time. also a significant operational maintenance costs that these are estimated $15 million annually for metro. given substantial challenges it's no surprise no commuter rail system has fully implemented ptc today. metros estimated 2019 full implementation. they asked congress to provide fra authority to grant waivers for the deadline is fine if the agent to show a good faith effort as determined by the fra. venture out is asking funding from congress.

on that i'd like to thank representative lipinski for introducing 14 of five which reauthorizes the technology program for ptc which is 200 million annually for the next five years. even no ptc will not be fully implemented by the deadline mr. has taken significant steps to provide safeguards for passengers. we have reviewed the fra 2015 safety advisory in the process of notifications to the gps system. the system will notify where the speed is reduced 20 miles per hour. the conduct or would then communicate and remain the engineer of restriction. we've also instituted the program which is confidential close quote reporting in conjunction with labor union of fra. before closing i wanted to bring to the committee's attention recently a question raised at the conference with regard to the commuter rail industry ability to operate pass the ptc

deadline as it relates to insurance liability. the railroads are currently investigating the matter. commitment along with the rest of the straight implements as expeditiously as possible. with that said they grant the authority to provide waivers on good faith that is in the implementation of ptc and i want to thank the committee are inviting me here today. i'd be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you mr. orseno. >> good morning chairman denham, ranking member term of the members of the committee. i misspoke erwin, deputy project manager for the rail authority a.k.a. metrolink. positive train control program. i appreciate the invitation to testify today to update the subcommittee on the significant investments metrolink is making to increase safety of our passengers ptc.

scratcher report as of june 14 metrolink is wholly implementing ptc in revenue service demonstration after the 341-mile note work. the major accomplishment in the fra next week on june 30th and certification in accordance with the rail safety improvement act of 2008. they have seven roster six counties in southern california carried over 43000 weekday riders. we are also dispatching 350 trains that traverse metrolink property and a daily basis including trains from bp union pacific and amtrak. mr. lang bbc program is a locomotive centric system based upon the interoperable electronic train management

system a.k.a. software. the testing of the infrastructure was completed over the past six years which includes ptc onboard equipment installed and tested on all 109 locomotives and a tennis wayside devices and ptc radios and stalled and operational. a robust communication network will cut untested and a new heart and dispatched operation facility for ptc constructs have been put service under the project. in addition to a network of phone lines we also work closely with reverent partners, nsf, union pacific, and the transit district to ensure implementation is achieved throughout the region. we have been fortunate to have tremendous support from local freight partners and appreciate challenges to implement ptc most of which have also impacted our program. they include nationwide

development of the interoperable technology and the need for ongoing software upgrades. development of dispatching systems and impacts to operations and funding constraints in regard to him but schilling has been working through many challenges to secure approval of the spectrum we entered into 2010. currently metrolink is trying to follow procedures under which the wireless telecommunications bureau recently granted amtrak application. for a partnership of the frei brothers, metrolink has been fortunate to execute a spectrum from ptc to 20 llc. this enables us to meet near-term needs. however the long-term needs we attempt to acquire them. our current ptc program cost the

agency $216.4 million. to put that in context is roughly equivalent to the entire annual operating budget of 221 million great majority of the ptc funding about 85% came from state and local sources. the investment in our ptc program has been significant for the agency. however priority of the boy and funding partners to implement the life-saving technology. moving forward the agency will be required to continue to prioritize funding as we transition into operations. the ongoing costs for consultants and vendors to operate in maine came when chris budget costs. petulant is proud to be leading the industry in implementation despite the challenges we've maintained her unwavering focus on advancing our ptc program. i would like to thank chairman denham and ranking member capuano for the opportunity to

testify and share experience. and that shall we continue to believe the safety of foundational investment as well as a number of other safety technologies are evident that this unwitting commitment to the safety of our past jurors. thank you. >> thank you mr. kirwan. i would ask members to keep their questions. i'll start things off this morning. again, i'm a thank you for your response. the last committee meeting but did something somewhat out of the ordinary and nasty for a quick wrist bond with questions the committee had on the amtrak crash. i think those issues are important to resolve and understand quickly and this committee thanks you for your rapid response and questions after committee members this morning.

i did want to continue in exchange you and i had several times now. i apprised as far as positive train control is such a big priority, why are you not using high-speed read dollars to upgrade not only the corridor but those connecting dots in california. california obviously was started as a big concern for those that ride the rail and those that live by real in california. this is a national issue and in our home say we are looking to provide leadership to resolve the safety can times people have quickly and california high-speed rail continues to have its challenges and certainly by their current burn rate of dollars they do not appear to be able to spend the money allocated to them by the deadline and so our ongoing exchanges what else could he

use the money for? could it be used for safety in california and i got your written response. it was possible, but i want to bring one issue to your attention. under california high-speed rails investment strategy for phase one as they specifically state electrifying the entire corridor so as to replace outdated diesel technology but electric locomotives for multiple unit train sets and introducing positive train control anonymous data of caltrain service to pave the way for high-speed rail. positive train control is a federal man he double reduce the potential for train to train collision and improve signaling crossings so as to allow increase train frequencies while enhancing safety. the money was taken from california high-speed rail. they approved a grant agreement to put it in a different corridor to upgrade coltrane and

put ptc by their own word. this is a priority for them. previously fra has diverted the central valley with 400 million that when to the joint powers authority to construct the foundation for high-speed rail terminal. you are moving money out of california's central valley hours away to where it may connect someday if it ever gets built to san francisco and l.a. through caltrain. under the high-speed intercity passenger rail grant program the following committees are expressly eligible as noted in the federal register. acquiring, construct and, improving on inspecting equipment, tracking structures from a highway rail grade crossing and improvements related to intercity passenger rail service included communication and signal station improvements. that sounds a whole lot like ptc

to me positive train control affects each one of those areas. i understand by this they would be able to use the same dollars. i know from your response to say the grantee would approve the process with the grants would be california high-speed rail. but again if they are not spending the money and it's already have president transferring money and safety is off our number one concern, why would we not take money available to be spent in a corridor available to the vent under prop onea and create the safety -- address safety for our state. >> mr. chairman, we've gone back and forth about this a lot and happy to continue to go back and forth. both you and our staff that had many conversations as well. as i said in my letter to you

earlier this week we do not believe we can take california high-speed rail might put to other priorities. >> a request to change the grants approval and you granted their request and done it several times for ptc caltrain and the joint powers authority 400 million, 171 million another grant has been several times already. >> i join you in a concert in the california high-speed rail authority is not earning through our money and a sufficiently fast manner and we are working with them very closely to make sure they meet all of their obligation to do so. our legal analysis of where we are at this moment as we cannot shift money obligated to california high-speed rail and move it to another priority. even if we were willing to take money away it would go back to the u.s. treasury.

we continue to engage on this in talk through with you. >> thank you. that appears to be a change in policies and the party have been. i would understand of california high-speed mail needs them is the grantee to make their request to fra. and my question would be high-speed rail authority. if they spent money on ppc, why this is a priority as it is duration are they not improving safety in california. >> i do not believe that the change in policy but we can continue conversation. they met when time is expired. i've got many other questions from a more national press active. as you know california is a big concern of mine and his cell is california high-speed rail. i now go to mr. defazio for five minutes and acknowledge the fact

that mr. capuano once again has been very gracious to college on the other side to skip his time so others may go first. [inaudible conversations] >> i don't think capuano and gracious but together the same sentence. thirdly i would convert your judgment, mr. chairman. ms. feinberg, you heard with css raised about the potential conflict with a hard deadline and whether or not their carriage and other hazards and passenger. can you resolve that regular have to statutorily resolve that? >> the congress is going to have to act. i cannot make a decision based on their liability. >> and you can't give relief because of the hard deadline set. >> i cannot extend the deadline. >> you talked about enforcing penalties. just like a little insight into

that. we are looking forward now and there's a lot of history, a lot of questions about how we got to this point and how some people are closer to the deadline and others comment better. are you looking at penalties that it backed funds from the railroad. wouldn't it be better if you mandate every study puts together a schedule that you would approve or not improve in terms of how quickly they lament -- marks and look at penalties to win forward. >> i would be really extended the deadline. the deadline is the deadline and if we communicate to railroads if you don't like the deadline we have, why don't you come up with a new deadline that would be extending the deadline. so we would not want to go about that. in terms of the penalty is three or four pages of specific

signs and penalties that were finalized back in 2010 that go from everything from not equipping a locomotives to failure to have ptc in a certain segment. quite detailed in the public realm. >> what i'm trying to get at you as everybody here wants to get this done as quickly as possible. there's a lot of history. in order to go forward, wondering if we give you flexibility from the deadline, but a mandate that will be implemented as soon as practicable technologically and physically practicable by each of those who do not mean and then you said benchmark they violate the benchmarks come about as one finds might be appropriate. would that be a way to go forward? ..

anyway, this is a difficult issue. quick, to the fcc. you have the capacity to deal with these all applications and approvals in a streamlined way. as i understand there are quite a few that of not being applied for and you are pushing her capacity come is that correct speak with that's correct, thank you. since our streamlined process was put into place we've had the capacity to do about 40,000 polls. today we will receive applications to review about 8300. we are ready for more work.

>> that something to take into account as we're moving forward. this is off the subject but very quickly, mr. mathias we get part of honor was get to go out and buy spectrum. negotiate and after can negotiate. i'm really concerned about what you might do with the 5.9 gigahertz for smart cars and communication between vehicles of the future. there some proposals that may be parsed that not all of it would which might lead to interference which might lead to his point or smartcard manufacturers of the future want to go out and buy spectrum as opposed to having something reserved. i hope to take that under advisement. >> thank you sir. >> and then to csx, how soon can you get it done? >> at csx our plans call for us to be hardware installed meaning all of the wayside

interfacial you know, all the obsolete single replacement recorded, although locomotives equipped, all the technology hardware installed by the end of 2018 with full deployment by 2020. i think it's important to note that by the end of 2018 we will have a significant portion of the system operable so it is not as if we get to 2020 and return on the 11000 miles. it's very methodical, almost linear implementation pretty much from here on out. we will have about 500 miles in place by the end of year which is about the size of the corridor and about the size of the metrolink deployment and then we get into the thousands of miles per year that rant is up through 2020. >> again, that seems like a long time and that's why i was proposing idea that the administrator, i don't think we should be giving people a blanket exemption till 2020 because some people will take until 2020 who don't need you.

maybe you do. but think there needs to be some level or greater that that is something the committee will be looking at. and key. thank you, mr. president. >> ms. feinberg, you testified and others have already testified before congress that if the december 31 deadline is not met or not extended, you use all the enforcement powers including emergency orders enforcement finds to encourage ptc to be adopted. will you share a transparent policy with regard how you will determine who the good actors are, the bad actors are? i think he categorized been that way. what i'm looking for is metrics. are the ways to measure it so it's not arbitrary so everybody knows when into this? you've got some bullet points on things intended to but i'm looking for how will you measure csx versus bnsf versus ep versus metrolink to be able to determine that speak is absolutely. we would not want to be

arbitrary or subjective that we want this to be quite black and white so the railroad would know what to expect that the congress would know what to expect. what was summarized in my oral testimony was an attempt to be quick and to move to quickly but our plan is to take the penalty and schedule that is already laid out and to be very transparent about what our approach will be and to communicate it both to the congress and to railroads so that everyone knows what to expect. >> will we be able to see that shortly? when to expect that to be done? the deadline is getting close that we want to make sure there is a transparent -- i've seen agencies in the past be very arbitrary. >> no, no. abu dhabi our approach, and that would not be the way we go about it. we will be very transparent about it. we owe the congress an update on ptc implementation on our roads are doing and implementing ptc.

doo doo feedback we've gotten back from the congress it's clear that the congress would like to report to also include very specific information about each railroad as an individual but also what are enforcement judge will be. we are now including that in the report and plan to get it to you as quickly as possible. >> go to levying fines against people, without the on a daily basis, monthly weekly? >> the statute lays out that it can be per violation per day. there is some amount of discretion there. >> would you consider shutting down a railroad? >> i think i would be up to the railroad lawyers would probably make the determination. we've heard from railroads that their lawyers are making a determination based on both the reliability and the likelihood of the magnitude of fines and

penalties. >> thank you very much. in terms of transit systems and commuter rails, my understanding is you folks are having a very difficult time. i know a secretary hogan the southeast has to make some real tough decisions on whether they will repair, replace cars, tracks because there's only so much money in the budget. can you tell us like a road like chicago? >> that is definitely a major challenge for us. as i stated we have about $189 to our federal formula fund. ptc alone is 350 million-400. we have developed using that money for other safety sensitive concerns like bridges. bridges are very important or we've got bridges that were built in the 1800s and we are in the process of doing those projects. it's important to find the funding to make sure we can get this government. it is very significant safety enhancement.

there's no question about it but it also competes with every other safety issue that we have. >> you got to be the most challenged of all the systems because you all class ones come in and around chicago so that interoperability come is that a significant challenge for something you're moving toward working out the? >> that is a huge and significant challenge for us because you got six of the second class one railroads coming in and of chicago that have to can mitigate between each train can policy their locations in the back office. that is been probably one of the most significant challenges for the industry. >> thank you very much. now go to ms. brown. >> thank you, mr. president. ms. feinberg, first of all let me just state that every last one of those supports safety in the industry. but i think you are leading me when you talk about daily fines the industry itself has been over $5 billion on positive

train control, and i don't feel that the federal railroad administration or the, u.s. federal communications commission, we've had daily, not daily, but we've had meetings where we discussed the system and we don't think i don't think that the administration has done all they need to do to move us forward. and to sit here and say that we are going to daily fines and we may have to shut down the industry. it's not going to fly. and so i would like for you to respond to that. >> i was responding to the question about what our authority is in terms of finding. we're working on our force for strategy and we will communicate it to you. >> i'm not talking about enforcement. on talking about support what we've done to help the industry could for example, with the spectrum. amtrak had to purchase the. how can we did not provide it for the industry?

but i'm confident they had a hard time getting it at this late the projects. >> i'll let the sec and to the spectrum question but i can take from the fra's perspective, we have hired a significant step one of the witnesses said the only a dozen staff at fra working on ptc. that is absolutely correct. we have staff in washington and across the country. we have offered loans. we've asked for grants. we have offered financial assistance. we have offered assistance across the board. we are still waiting for safety plans to come in from railroads based on implementation. >> i hear what you were saying but as far as i'm concerned, you all have been the caboose as far as helping and assistance of moving forward. i don't mean it in a negative sense, but you have invented the entire time. we've been going over this for years and we just have not got

administration or where it needs to be as far as assistance moving forward. i mean, when we sit positive train control, it's a combination. what happens at amtrak. it wasn't just didn't have positive train control. didn't have the proper equipment as far as the cars are concerned, had to purchase the specter. is just a whole list of things that i feel that the administration should have worked, and i do mean this administration i think it's been a multiplicity of administrations that have been everything that they need to do to get us where we need to be. now, even if they come up with well, here we are, even if they come up with it in 2018, this will still take two or three years to determine whether or not the system working together. >> i can only speak for this

demonstration. i can't speak for previous administrations. this administration has done a great deal to try to bring railroads along and into compliance with a mandate that was passed by the congress in 2008. we have been sounding the alarm for years about our concern that railroads were not going to meet the deadline. and so i believe this administration has done a great deal of work to bring railroads along, but witnessing the progress that we need to. >> i'm just letting you know you are leaving the. but go ahead to the next person. >> are asking about the question of amtrak spectrum? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. the way the railroads approach this process initially they selected a spectrum band in the 220-220 metric hurts so you get technical but it's part of the spectrum that was already owned by other people. it has licensees. unfortunate and the caseload would've had to do to get a

spectrum to anyone else as we would've had to have taken it away from the existing owners through a process that would have required compensation finding the additional spectrum and also potentially would have led litigation. but we thought would be a more productive approach would be to actively work with amtrak to find spectrum on the second of market that they could you for ptc. in the same spectrum block. >> well, as we move forward that is an issue that the congress needs to address. my next round i'll go to you, frank. thank you. >> thank you ms. brown. mr. rice, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. president. ms. feinberg, you may not have been around when all this started but want is that they need to create this new system? it seems to me there are so many systems that are similar to those that are incredibly cheaper and quicker to institute.

why did we settle on creating this entire new system? >> i think ptc is an overlay of some other systems, but if you're referring to a pc and some of the technologies we've talked about in this committee previously, it's basically a step beyond that. and it would assist in taking human factors off the table. it's one of the most important technologies that we believe can be implemented for rail safety. >> mr. kerwin, i'm going to switch over to you because you know more about the technical aspects. you're a project manager. i know there are gps systems out there that you can buy for $1000 that will control the motion of a vehicle, right? stop it, started and all that kind of thing. >> intelligent where you're at it as far as controlling the vehicle -- >> i've had one on my boat that costs $900 i would steer my note

to a point. what is it is so much more difficult than the? >> the key to ptc as it's not a specific technology as much as a specification that it prevents train to train collision -- >> as long as the gps will connect it, seems to me they could do that very, very easily. this seems to me this is light years easier than a google car or whatever you call the thing. a google car has got to send people walk in front of it instructions, and this doesn't have to do any of that. all they can do come they can't still come it's got to go how fast how slow or stop, right? not that complicated. >> i understand and appreciate your point. it is much more competent than it would seem. one of the key factors is interoperability. ptc mandate requires seamless transition from one where road to another railroad property and communications director the railroads. >> i understand that but the gps technology exists today.

mr. lonegro, but switched to you. via technology today before this technology we're talking about here that you know where all your locomotives are? can you tell where they are at any time when they are running? >> we've had gps on our locomotives for i was in the last half-dozen years or so but i think it's important understand, gps is one of i was a 100 just for raw numbers inputs into ptc. it simply provides one input and that is where the train itself is. is not an indicator of speed not an indicator of grade or where the red signal is. it's not indicator of where the works of is. i could go on and on but i know you don't want to do. that's just one input into the. the technology you referred to earlier about access is based on a count signal method of operation pick at csx will have about 411,000 miles that uses cap signal as a method of operation event agency is built

on top of an exorcism and amtrak use is built on top of that. is not a system that we utilize to run our train. >> all these other guys are using taxpayer money and sure enough. did you all do an analysis of whether the cheaper you some of these legacy systems to control the train or to create this entire new system that i think they're doing 23,000 locomotives the cost $9 billion about $400,000 of locomotive. didn't csx do an analysis determine whether it would be cheaper to modify the existing legacy system? >> there's a couple of inches. in the beginning yes, we did an analysis about whether we should go the amtrak route and access the system or whether we should go with a system that they been working on since the mid '90s which the precursor was known as cbtb in which with communications basic training

management. the thing that's important to know is that there are generally three or four methods of operations that they use to navigate the transportation of abortion is cap signal as mentioned. signal territory a non sequitur toward an permutations all other clothing that acts as works on is the first method of operation which is cap signal territory. we would've changed the entire method of the entire government to cap signal which would've required both ways that changes technology changes as well as locomotive changes and yes, we did look at the two in the lead up to ietms come as the buddha today. >> mr. kerwin, he said you spent $216 million on ptc. you got it fully installed? >> we have it fully deployed. we're working with our freight partners and amtrak to get those systems spent how many locomotives do you have? >> 109 locomotives and cab cars that need to be equipped.

>> so you spent about $2 million per locomotive is? >> our total cost our budget is 216 and we spent about 200 of that. that's not just installation on locomotive. there's a gym is not a box office components and wayside components as well. >> ridiculously expensive to me but he's messing with his dollars i believe if he says he did the analysis i understand. thank you. >> the gentleman's time has expired. mr. lipinski is recognized for five minutes. >> turn one. thank you going to searing. we want to make sure -- thank you, mr. chairman. will to make sure we do everything we can for safety. it's been a very difficult issue. i wanted to thank administrator feinberg for her work on this and other things. it's a difficult time cutting into the position that the administrator pell i just want to first make sure that we are all clear.

you were saying that fra doesn't have the authority to shut down railroads. it's defined it's defined that what the fra is able to level come is amended is not extended? >> ultimately if we needed to take action to shut down a railroad i think we could do that, but my point was what we are hearing from railroads is that's the decision to make in consultation with her lawyers on how they would operate on january 1 if they have not come if they are not fully implemented. >> i don't know if that makes sense to me mr. lonegro, mr. orseno, i was going to entities into that come in regards regard to the funds and index they could have on you spent yes thank you. on the commuter side of the industry we depend very heavily on tax dollars. what the commuter belt industry

has abdicated was for an extension, not category extension but an extension based on good-faith good faith efforts based on the railroads ability to complete ptc. i don't think personally it would be in the public's best interest to find railroads that typically don't have the funding to implement ptc. i think we need to find a solution where we can implement ptc as expeditiously as possible, and not fine the railroads because it's just come and get it, right out of our pot the user bridges and cars and everything else it takes to operate the railroad. >> thank you. mr. lonegro, anything speak with yes, sir. it doesn't matter how big that they're chasing is or how big the kabul -- a cattle prod chasing is. we spent 1.2 putting.

with 1000 people to the project at its heart is a we have put the best foot forward possibly could. we supply the fra with both an aggregate level of information in terms of where we've been. we done that on an annual basis at the end of 2012. the ntsb has asked for it and if in six provided that. we've given a prognosis on a railroad by river basis about when we we were done. >> i don't have much time at a don't want -- >> i don't believe the fines would be helpful. >> all right. first of all we all want to set up your and find villains come and in this situation i think it's very complex and there are not easy answers to this. we just want to move forward as quickly as possible. i've been in favor. i've tried, work on getting more federal funding, especially for commuter rail.

mr. orseno, so you are saying about $359 to finish by 2019 is that -- >> that is correct. that's a conservative number. as we get moving into the process further along as all these things have a tendency to change, that is a conservative number. >> did you receive any funding from the railroad safety technology grant program for any other fra grant program? >> no, we have not. >> with additional federal funding help expedite the safety efforts and help metra invest in its infrastructure and? >> there's a very strong possibility that additional funding would help us move the project along faster, but i also want to be very clear that there's only a limited number of resources that are available for installation in purchasing things. the supply and demand chain. we can look at moving it

quicker, and if we had federal funding we could take the funding that we are using for that right now for other things like i explained before. we got cars that are six years old, breaches that were built in 1800. we could address some of those issues spent about also make the point that metra has significant increase, needed to increase fares as a long-term plan of increasing fares so you are doing your part in regard to that. very quickly before i conclude that someone other safety related issue. with administrator feinberg. regardless of whatever plan the fra chooses those mandates the use moving farther i hope the agency keeps careful tabs as i do on efforts in reports and submit your we already know they have released ambitious and aggressive timelines for finishing the ptc installations and some of the issues we've had with them which we have discussed. and i think we need to make sure we follow up and keep rails the

safest possible. thank you. i yield back. >> assortment. if i could make one point in response to the back and forth. we've asked for a sum total of $2 billion to go toward tbc and fermentation and technologies. 825 million integral america but altogether 2 billion. we are in favor of the additional federal funding going to ptc of limitation. >> thanks, mr. lipinski. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good morning ms. feinberg. got a question here for you, start out to make chocolate packets may be sent to fra, and this comes from testimony, fra will use all its enforcement powers including warnings come emergency orders and enforcement fines to encourage ptc adoption. do we know how to fra would assess the fines? with a bss daily? is there a policy that's been defined yet regarding that? >> so the goal of our our

enforcement actions editing probably any safety regulators enforcement actions is to bring about compliance and speedy i understand the goal. do we know what's coming? >> as we discussed earlier, we are finalizing that now. posted enforcement policy is public and has been public since 2010. they are face fines and penalties based on whether its locomotive for segments of track but most of it has been public since 2010 and we are in response to the caucuses request finalizing our strategy now so that we can be completely transparent about what railroads and the congress can expect that it may be daily it may be otherwise? >> that's correct. >> a few weeks ago when you here right after the shortly after the horrible mishap down in philadelphia i asked you how much of the $1.3 billion in stimulus money that was received for some time ago, because of such an issue and to his questions about congress and one particular party not being

responsive and cutting money for ptc. so how much of the stimulus money, when everything was in one hand in this town that was spent on ptc for amtrak, particularly in the northeast quarter? do you remember the question? >> i do remember that question. it's $400 billion that went towards ptc. that's not amtrak specific accounts are at in relation wanted just amtrak specific but it is 400 million total. i believe it is 36 for amtrak. >> so right now that's federal funding and we're looking at $9 billion is what's the estimate cost of freight railroads. >> total. >> right come with this deadline. if you can see the dichotomy the difference. we don't have ptc we have money and we're asking for exponentially more. we not asking but it's a requirement for investor. this is private money

$9 billion. let me ask you by the arbitrary deadline. i'm calling arbitrator what is your opinion about the deadline? doesn't take into account the technicaltactical aspects? doesn't take into account the frequency spectrum aspects? does it take into account the timeline where the fra took nearly a year to prove one of the single plans, one of the planes that is required by each railroad? does it take into account of those things the deadline speak what is your deadline but it's the congress is deadline. >> i'm asking your opinion spent i believe it's a good deadline and effect was reached during negotiation -- >> i understand the you say it's good but doesn't take into account those things? spent i believe in 2008 when you passed is deadline to do those things into account. >> okay. we foresaw all the things that might occur or not ago regarding frequency spectrum regarding approvals, regarding finances. that was all known. there was no political solution

to the two sides come one earlier, when want to later? >> i think it was an understanding 2008 that wanted to become located it had been called for since 1969 f. would not be so complicated. spent okay. i asked for your opinion. i appreciate. under the consolidated appropriations act of 2015 fra was directed to quote provide a report to congress on the limitation within 180 days. do you know what the status of that is? >> yes. previously when a quick discussion about it. it was due to the committee i believe a week ago. in recent weeks without additional request from the congress about additional information they want in that report. we are updating it have and should have it to you in these. >> but was it entente or was in its because it was week one week ago. >> so it is not in its? >> that's correct. it's supposed an update on what the railroads are in a foundation. >> congress that would accommodate one of 80 days to

anyone agreed speed of congress asked for us to include our enforcement strategy. >> things change. so who should we fine at the fra when they are not timely? >> you can feel free to hold me accountable for the fact that report is a weekly session a week late spend what should the fine the? >> i believe that up to you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. sires. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you know i travel on the northeast quarter constantly back and forth. i'm still trying to get this idea with the spectrum how we wind up with comment places like chicago, they only have one and more than more than 11 companies use of your i don't understand why we just can't come up with one system. now we have to worry where one is going to any of your with the other. and it just doesn't make sense. with other parts of the country use one system.

can somebody address backwards how did we get to this point? >> i think it goes back to the conversation we had a few minutes ago where the access system for amtrak was really developed for passenger rail and specifically for high speed passenger rail. there's a certain way that passenger railroads run their operations and to utilize certain technologies to run their trains can dispatch the trains and they have a different way of running the railroad and so those two systems -- >> is it is a company not making a concession to the other? i mean i don't understand it. >> we are all making concessions, candidly. >> how did we wind up with to if we are all making concessions because they rely on three occasions as a fundamental aspect. what we are really doing is a data transmission is using two radios which are going to use two separate but close pieces of

spectrum. the close of those pieces of spectrum are and more into fierce there can be but i would say we're actively working between amtrak, the northeast commuters as well as the fcc to solve the problem. we believe we applied upside to that. >> and i have -- the fra said 40% of all accidents are a result of human performance failure. the railroads, however, claimed ptc would only prevent 4% of all accidents, during the cost outweighs the benefits. how did we come up with 4%? >> we look at all of the accident over i believe it or 10 or year period all accidents come and do not sure the fra look at all accidents. they may have looked at a subsequent accidents are generally caused a couple couple of

things from either the conditions or the behaviors. conditions could be track related, signal related equipment, could be have the car operates were some of the components and the same on the locomotive side, and then you have behavioral-based because there's something that happened in the capital locomotive the human factor site. we look at the entire portfolio of accidents into the math on things we thought were ptc preventable and were not and came up with 4%. at csx it was only 2%. >> 2% speak with yes sir 2% of all accidents, ptc preventable. >> in other words, in your eyes you don't think it's worth it to make this investment speaks i think we are well past the conversation. we've always been $1.2 billion. we have good life inside a completion and for the point by 2020. i think we are well past that conversation. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. hardy, you are recognized for five minutes.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. ms. feinberg, i have read your testimony clear through and it states it seems that fra is ready to act penalties on pdcf not intimate the view state fra is ready to act in the end to bring railroads into safety compliance. you suggest that congress should authorize fra to require railroads to use alternative safety technology on specified lines. you also say, and i quote, these requirements will likely because of the railroads. can you share with your ideas on this alternative technology? >> what i was referring to was what i would refer to as the safety gap that would exist between january 1 2016, a day after the deadline come and when ptc is actually implemented by each railroad. and what, if anything, should be done to raise the bar on safety during that gap. so whether it's additional

communication between crewmembers are an additional person in the cab. we have not made final determination. i think they would be railroad ter river specific gravity how do you increase safety between the date of the deadline business and when ptc is implement it. >> in your testimony stated these will be costly to the railroads. you've clearly run the numbers on how much it will cost. can you share those calculations are how you come to the point? >> we just frequenter from railroads that its items like additional crewmembers are quite costly. that space on that assertion. >> mr. orseno, with safety being paramount like you did held into the cost little more. in your testimony that a commuter and freight rail industries will have spent over billions of dollars on ptc implementation, although progress has been substantially -- remains to be done before ptc can be safely implement a

nationwide. companies on how much money have they spent out of pocket, deeply these costs will be passed down to consumers, which is naturally what happens but i just want to hear from you? >> in my opinion yes, they would be passed on to consumers. when we raised our affairs in order to cover ptc costs and other items we have to pass those costs on. we only have x amount of state and federal funding. the challenge that we have on the commuter rail side is the higher you raise the fares, the less likely you will retain all of your ridership at a time when we want to get more people on trains and off the roads that's a big challenge so it's a very difficult balancing act is to be able to provide safe valuable service for our customers. >> do you believe we've done all we can as a committee, as congress to help move this process forward?

do you feel like that you're being penalized for our lack of action or inaction or fra's action or inaction? i'd like to your opinion on that also. >> that's a challenging question. >> yes, it is. >> the answer is this is a very expensive proposition for algorithm especially in the roads where we don't have the type of funding that we need. i believe that the congress needs to find the ptc project. it's important, it's important for the safety of our customers, our employees and the communities we operate through so it's important to me that the federal government supply some funding for it. >> thank you. mr. lonegro, you made the statement that they need impact of the deadline will be that there's potential making certain rail operations illegal. can you discuss these ramifications a bit more if you

would, please? >> yes sir. we are in a legal dilemma as i mentioned in the opening testimony. we have a law that requires ptc could implement on lines that carry passengers and lines that carry certain commodities. so the transport of those after january 12016 would run in contravention to rail safety improvement act but you also have a cometary obligation that requires this to haul freight that is tendered on reasonable request and reasonable terms and conditions. we are in a situation which lottery violate. we have that same conundrum on the passenger side. amtrak runs over us, as law that is 45 years old so we are required to amtrak to run as well as a number of other commuters including mr. orseno. we also have this obligation under the rail safety improvement act which requires us to complete tepco the same length. if we're not able to me on the same lines we needed to try 4010

runs in? these are the challenges that many, many lawyers are trying to resolve. we don't have answered to that quite yet. >> thank you. my time is expired. >> thank you mr. hardy. ms. s. becoming a recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman denham, and thank you for remarkably gracious ranking member defazio -- ranking member capuano for waiting to launch. this work is actually important to the thousands of folks in my district in connecticut arrived israel's everyday and for businesses about on the freight service as well in northwest and central connecticut. i hear from a lot of those commuters that they're very concerned about rail safety as you can imagine over the last two years. but we been talking that ever since the fatal collision in 1969. we been talking about positive train control but as you can see from today's hearing there's increased in patients and pension about how long it's taking. i think we really need to get down to brass tax of what are

the carrots and sticks, water what incentives at this time recognizing the difficult expect them to the difficulty with interoperability and with the budget challenges? what do we do now to move this forward as expeditiously and as safe as possible? that's why would like to start from. the past is the past. we are here now. we are in june of 2015. how do we get this moving forward to keep people safe? acting administrator feinberg, thank you for your patience and your transparency and your exceptional availability us on the committee. we value that quite a lot. in your testimony you noted that you think fra should have need to the authority given the situation right now, over ptc control systems to test some as well as to provide for interim safety measures when they do not meet the deadline which is all very clear most of them will not be meeting the deadline. could you expand and say what should we be doing in this committee, what should this committee of jurisdiction between to give fra authority,

and why? >> thank you for the question that i think the most important thing we can do starting out and going forward is to provide railroads with the resources that they need to implement ptc. this administration has asked county,the fra has asked the significant resources for the commuter railroads so they could implement ptc. i think that's the most important thing that can happen. edition in terms of our authority, the statute is quite narrow and so as others have discussed, we really do run into a problem on january 1 where the law is the law, and to cite despite preferences of railroads, i can't give waivers. i can't base waivers on good faith. i can't extend the deadline and i won't extend the deadline. so we have to figure out how to move forward past january 1 to make sure passengers, those who live near and along the rail are

safe. i'm happy to continue to work with the congress on that but the most important thing is to make sure we're providing resources so that we can bring this technology online quickly. >> a quick follow-up question. do you believe that the railroads that fail to meet that deadline, and i'm asking now under current law, will be subjected to increased tort liability? because insurance issues are raised, that is a very very -- again i think this committee needs to understand what is the legal opinion of fra about that as well as railroads. >> the opinion of the fra look i do want to give the railroads legal advice that probably the only person in this room is not a lawyer, but we are certainly think of the railroads that they believe there is increased by the as of january 1 and we agree with them. >> i think we need to get to work on that because that's not in anybody's interest as we move forward. mr. mathias, courtesy. we went to college together.

thank you for being here. i'm hearing from the railroads particularly northeast corridor other members of reference the difficult about spectrum. what is it from your perspective that we can do particularly in the very congested space, and that is spectrum space as well as physical space, that we should be doing to expedite a safety in the northeast corridor from the most heavily trafficked area in the country? >> thank you and it's good to see you, too. thank you for your question. we have an increasingly good news story in the northeast corridor with regard to spectrum. ..

and to be ready in case something changes. we might thank you very much. >> thank you mr. mika appeared let's go right to mr. mathias. you're talking about the connection of putting ptc and from boston to new haven. it is not most of what amtrak is known. >> no sir. amtrak has spectrum. >> not as where was installed. last year you gave us a map and not one was pretty much complete. that is really mostly under a private operation. they don't know in that part of

the line. >> i'm telling you they don't own it. i know. >> it is interesting they could get it done. >> let's go to the acting administrator. here she is back asking for money again. last time i asked how many reforms had been given since 2012. i got an answer last year. is it still three loans since 2012? >> yes sir. >> how many of those were for ptc. >> you can say 33%. it sounds more impressive. >> good idea. >> let's go back to a communications guide. there is 11,000 backlogs. at one time i thought as many as 20,000 application. >> would understand the

railroads total deployment would be approximately 30000. >> what is your number of applications approved in what is your backlog at this point? >> we have had before his 8300. we have no backlog today. >> you are expecting more. >> i give you credit before processing was 2000 year. is that correct or did i buy? >> we can do more. >> where is my guy for metrolink. the accident -- >> 2008 -- mr. oberstar we did the bill. you still don't have positive train control and all of metrolink service. or do you? >> we have metrolink owned line

phone service. >> with positive training. 's! what is missing then? >> the ones we run with their free partners are not currently ptc operational. >> ms. feinberg just sad she's going to hammer the free people and the hammer is coming down at the end of the year. a summary is that? >> i said we would enforce it. >> that's right. >> then i see you submit a budget that proposes a six-year schedule 2016 of funding commander brown rose two and lament ptc. is that going to take another six years? last i checked there's not a lot of passengers and freight trains. i would think people would be pretty important. most of the people care about

their poor people that might have disrupted freight traffic. people and commuters are going to take six years. >> first of all we want first deadline against the railroads. >> but then we have a plan to go forward. >> if they can implement sooner that would be great. happy to use resources for other items. >> cameras metrolink. >> all of them and all of our cats. >> has been a recommendation for some time and i decided all the other times back to 73 and they weren't implemented in most is the >> arts have been implemented in since 2009. >> last thing. if tapia eligible for use

installation of positive train control? does anybody know? does anybody know? you guys are brilliant on the other side, you don't know. they think it is. that is a mechanism for funding. the last thing before i conclude. i have seven seconds. i met a guy in a plane i didn't know him from adam. what are you doing on the plane? >> i'm coming back to d.c. he says i'm what some kind of a project and we finance projects. he says that tickets between 60 and 90 days to get approval for financing under the private sector. i said what are you doing here. he says these guys are screwing around with the paperwork for a

year. you can go to private sector financing while they screw around in d.o.t. here is the mechanism that may be available and is available in your future pass the risk of both of them don't work. did she want to respond on your own time? >> share. i believe undersecretary fox among both of those programs have moved along much faster than they had previously. there's always room for improvement. >> thank you mr. mika. the previous chairman did get to witness this time is also the members time today. iraqi master five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to my colleague mr. capuano for yielding to the rest of the committee. first of all it went to command natural link, the second-largest by size in the country for the outstanding work they have done

in meeting our ptc deadline. i like it that you are close with railroad partners, the mss union pacific amtrak to make sure technologies are interoperable and work hard on the funds in the implementation of your system. i want to point out 85% of the funds used to fund the rollout were from the state of california and local sources only 15% were federal. ptc is clearly a top priority for me and it really is for the american people. when american people hear we can prevent train accidents and deaths of people by the implementation of ptc they are also very frustrated that any railroad are not going to be meeting our deadline. i will say it like to go on

record and agree to disagree with chairman denham that i don't think we should take money from california high speed rail to pay for ptc california high speed rail within their budget to make sure there's ptc on the california high-speed rail project. we need to find money for both. i'm going to ask mr. mathias my first question. we've heard from testimony a major part of the process to implement ptc is acquiring spectrum. the process of acquiring spec drum has been trying and prolonged. the license for spectrum five years ago before they can use the same approval. in order to meet the deadline, metrolink is currently leasing spec drowned at the rate of $50,000 per year from freight

railroads while awaiting the approval. everyone is going to want to know why it has taken five years to approve the use of spectrum. is this normal and shouldn't wait half an night of the recent accident and in light of this urgency to prevent future accidents shouldn't there be an expedited process for approval for projects that deal with their public safety. >> thank you for that good question. i can appreciate your turn. we are very glad metrolink has been able to negotiate a lease and that they will be able to a spectrum necessary to provide this service. we understand their concern and frustration of spectrum they intended to purchase has taken so long to acquire. unfortunately it has been mired in federal litigation as well as a close perceiving that the federal communications commission. i can provide details but what

we are trying to do as much as they can to get the process moving, we've taken the extraordinary step of taking the spectrum we wish to acquire out of the seeming to move forward. they have several waiver request that would facilitate use of spectrum pending before us. we understand they need to update those. we look forward to receiving information. >> thank you. the american people are not very sympathetic but the excuse is for the fcc not approving spectrum applications as quickly as possible. i started to correct my my colleague, ms. brown. it is difficult to find and enforce the deadline when our own agencies are not moving as quickly as most of us would like. i'm just going to say.

mr. corinne, you are a model. i'm very proud of metrolink california. maybe since you've been able to meet the deadline and you've been able to jump over obstacles and through the hoops to actually make this happen, what advice would you give other commuter rail lines in this country who are trying to make the deadline by the end of the year? >> thank you for the question. i would like to thank mr. lonegro for a shout out to our project director who has been diligent in pushing this project forward. this sentiment has come all the way from the top of metrolink the board, printers have made it very, very strong commitment. the funding they provided has been the crucial element in getting this project going along with the adamant support from

our board to get the project started. we started early and made a concerted effort around the clock and have been working very hard for many years. i wouldn't say there is a silver bullet to accomplish it. it has been a very challenging process. we do sympathize with the many challenges we have encountered. i would say the funding is a key element and having a close working relationship with your free partners that you operate with because that was the other key element for us is the strong support we had from our partners. >> thank you tiered you've been a model for the company and we applaud you. >> thank you. mr. duncan for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. sorry had to be at a hearing until a few minutes ago.

ms. feinberg, you know, it has taken these railroad several years to get to the point where they are now and apparently there's still a pretty good ways to go. do you have any estimate of how long it is going to take your agency to certify a railroad after this process? >> this stuff is first a safety plan is submitted to us so it's basically the railroads plan for how they will implement ptc and ensure the system is working. we have received one of those cannot turn it back around to the railroads. they take a while to go through because you're not a liberating the plan, but you are in close consultation talking terror, offering edits and changes to make sure it works.

it takes a while, but we feel confident as they roll in we will be able to turn them around in the kinds of time periods we've laid out for the railroads. as of now it just received one. >> are you satisfied with the progress the railroads have made thus far? >> i would not be satisfied unless the deadline were going to be met. >> you know my dad told me years ago and i don't remember what he was talking about at the time, but everything looks easy from the distance. i was reading over mr. lonegro's testimony for csx. it's says that tasks are still monumental and csx has to do a complete air board survey of art tired 21000-mile network to make all i