. five years the anti-piracy's client for for trying to put plants inside, sometimes by leaking their own albums to the group just to establish credit. like an fbi agent you can sell drugs legally to give him the bigger drug dealers and you were not able and never succeeded. eventually they had a guy flip. he turned informant and brought down the group the inside. okay. well, this was fantastic. i want to thank my host. [applauding] i want to thank all of you for coming. clicks and there is more wine and cheese. i will move this podium and microphone. he will sign books for me and you. these are not yours. [laughter]

.. the last warrior looking at andrew marshall. the pentagon's internal think

tank. that's the lineup tomorrow night on c-span2 at eight eastern. >> this summer book tv will cover book festival around the country with nonfiction authors. in the middle of july the harlem book fest is the flagship african-american book fest. in the beginning of september live from the nations national capital celebrating its 15th year. >> c-span2 brings you the best access to congress, live votes from the senate floor hearings, policy events and every weekend it's book tv. nonfiction books and their authors. a behind-the-scenes look at the publishing industry. the best access to congress, nonfiction books.

>> >> good evening everyone. please silence your cell phones. following the event a book per signing will be upstairs. p don't forget most of our authors lated are on the podcast at free library.org i'm a librarian heref at the free library of e

philadelphia. we will discuss legal issues of emerging media, internet freedom , transparency and accountability. his latest book leo tech argues for the necessity of understanding how to find and use this seemingly infinite reservoir of information as well as the adaptive role of libraries in teaching. amy ryan like of the boston cenge u library discusses bibliotech. he challenged all all of us to keep the library relevant. most powerfully a cornerstone of democracy burning formed public.

please join me in welcoming them k to the free public library. >> thank you so much for your kind introduction and thanke you hap all to those who have me here to the free library of fellowout this philadelphia. i could not be happier to be here and discuss my new book bibliotech. this is this is an appropriate place to discuss the book but this amazing history that philadelphia has from ben franklin and his role in shaping the library in this country and i thinin the free library of philadelphia and many great institutions rehear. w >> i think ray here in many respects we are at a historic moment when it comes toand information and libraries. the

spans across libraries and journalism. i think it's all connected and an interesting way. i think they all hinge on the same set of questions about whether in the digital age, we can make our institutions as effective for democracy as they do this have been in the analog age. in a funny way i i think there is some risk that they might not be.hi so part of what was driving me to do this project and work on this book, bibliotech was a a series of conversation that i've had over the last several yearsis way with people who have surprised me on exactly this question. five or six years ago i became bigge the head of a life barry of the harvard library which is one of lots the biggest one. i i was not a librarian by trade, i was a law professor. there were a lot of great librarians who worked there, don't worry, but many what

were wondering why was working in a library. i have the same conversation a whole bunch of times, over and over again at a barbecue or cocktail party where someone would say what are you up to? i said i'm teaching at a law school but i'm about to start running a library. they would look at me funny r and say why would you do that? you're not a librarian. that's true, i'm not trained as a librarian but it's really important for a variety of reasons. oh you're the digital guy and i think now that we have google you don't need libraries. you're gonna shut down libraries. and i would say wait, wait no no i think they're morearies are important than ever but by then my friend would be off in some other direction i neve mror get back to make the case about why libraries are more important in each of google. i decided toha write a book for all those people who probably wouldn't read it but it's more important than ever to have libraries in a digital age. i happen to believe that. in some respects i some

respects i was inspired by this picture which b comes from the image vault that we have at harvard law school library. i doubt anyone in the audience will guess what this is but it's the private library of oliver wendell holmes junior. he was a law professor at harvard and became a supreme court justice. this is his private library in washington d.c. i liketh m this picture for a lot of reasons. i love the idea of sitting in the chaire in the middle of this room. no doubt he was inspired and you could imagine him reading a book

i think a lot about what kind of a learning environment are we creating for kids like this particular environment here. what would it be like for these kids to have a place where there would be inspired the same way mr. justice wood in this particular moment. i'm imagining that it won't look exactly the same. maybe they too would be inspired by this kind of a space. space. when i was a library director and thinking about the kids at andover today, it's clear to me that when kids go to a library they don't do a whole lot of this. at harvard law school library in the library are high school, the libraries are very full. they're packed with kids elbow to elbow, doing their work and homework but they're not taking a lot of books off shelves. they have their computers and they may have a book they were assigned but they are not there for the

books. as we build libraries going forward, if the point is not necessarily to be a collection of books, of physical objects for these kids, how do we make just as inspiring and just as wonderful when much of the information is not located in this physical form. the reason they come to the library is not necessarily for the physical objects. i. i think that is an important challenge for us to meet. another part of the challenges there is a public view that libraries are not as necessary for a variety of reasons. this is a very recent quote that i found on the amazon page for the book i wrote and it's just somebody who happened to comment and didn't like the book for a right view of reasons but mostly he just disagreed with my premise of the importance of libraries. he wrote public libraries are on their way out like most government services. they are being squeezed out so they can no longer provide service. it is not a particularly uncommon service to be in a town

and see the pressure that is online libraries today. at the local level where most funding comes from, we know you have to make a decision in a local budget between supporting the fire department, the police department, the schools or a library. my view is that money is so short in relative terms to support a library and the payback is so good that it's crazy to cut libraries. we know that pressure comes every year on library spirit i was so glad to see that they are supportive of this library for $25 million. that's the biggest gift, probably flam. flam for three stepping forward. they talk about this in the kansas city public library. the governor had been making a plan to cut the state funding for libraries. 75 young people had gone up and done a sit in in the governor's office and they were thrown out by the state police which was dramatic and exciting, but it was a showdown of state funding for libraries. it was a junior high school kid

that was involved in the protest and i was so proud she was acting with such civil disobedience. i was proud of her spring break activities. at the at the federal level, even president obama who i admire, his budgets have included cuts at the federal level for funding for libraries. we have pressure in all directions on libraries. at the same time more need than ever for their services in a democratic institution. how do we make a positive arctic argument for libraries in this digital age? that is important for our democracy. that it all goes back in some respect to why we had public free libraries in the first place. in this country a lot of history dates back to the middle of the 19th century. this particular image comes from boston public library. the most important part about it in my view is if you look just above the door are the 3m amazing words which are free to

all. you should have an institution in the point is no matter how much money you have a ready come from or what your education level is, you should have access to the knowledge that is necessary for you to be informed and delighted in the democracy. the fact that this was radical in the 1950s is amazing because now it seems obvious. it kicks off at this moment in history. i i realize that's why i should of had this picture which is the free library in philadelphia. that's a few years later in american history but growing from a similar civic pride and civic importance in our country. of course the carnegie library which have spread out to 1600 communities across the nation. we have an amazing and proud history of this expansion of public libraries across our

country. i think we are at another moment where we have to think about what the next chapter is for public libraries and libraries of all sorts. the reason that is so crucial is increasingly the knowledge we create in our society is held, not in physical format, but in the cloud. as not to say we will not have books. that's not the argument. i still think this particular technology is a great one of physically holding the material in this format. clearly when we create information it's primarily created in a digital format and accessed not through the physical format but often through these little devices. increasingly mobile and increasingly cloud base. crucial to this part of the story is also that those who hold the knowledge in the cloud are private actors by march. if you look the names, it's almost all private companies. there are not public spaces online in the same way we have public spaces in the analog,

physical world. i think i think that distinction really matters. i think it could matter because if we don't in fact keep information in public hands and provide access on a free to all basis in an digital era that could exacerbate the problems we have in society between the haves and have-nots. imagine a world in which what libraries do is only meet access to information that is held online when many people who have access to funds can buy whatever they want and bring it on their kindle. that is in in a great outcome for libraries. it's not a crazy potential problem so a few years ago, in particular, those who work in libraries no there have been a series of tussles between publishers and libraries about trying to figure out what the basis on which were going to lend electronic books to individuals. just out of curiosity, how many people here if you were to read a novel would perform it in

prefer it in a printed copy? large majority. how many prefer an e-book? so it depends on how big of the book? how many are happy to read in either format #a couple of people. i put myself in that third category. at night i like something like this to be beside my bed in a bedside table and i can pick it up and it's easier to fall asleep. if i mail on a plane, it's, it's much easier to have all those books you have on a kindle that's a wonderful thing except for when you run out of battery and you're not allowed to use it but is increasingly is that third category. the growth is in the third category. people who like digital books as well as physical books. people who buy a lot of digital books also attended by a large number of

physical books. the habits are changing quickly but at the same time publishers are very worried about what their business model will look like. many publishers have not allowed libraries to license on the same terms the digital books as they have the physical books. sometimes the the most valuable and sought-after books of the first run have been hard to get those. if you think about the role of librarians of bringing a physical object to a place in lending it out, that's that's a wonderful and important right that libraries have. once they bought this book under u.s. law they can do anything they want with it. they contain it tear it out but give it to someone else or sell it and librarians have very broad brights to do what they want with it. in a digital world, that's not so.

they go not necessarily from being owners to the physical material but to renters and leaser's to those materials. if they stop paying those royalties and licenses to those publishers and booksellers they might not have a collection. it's a very different world. some of the contract terms have been pretty of noxious. contract terms have terms have said things like you can't read the book out loud if you have a digital version. that's a crazy crazy idea. one of the ones libraries made the most was an early agreement between booksellers and publishers and libraries and that arrangement the librarians were told you could lend it 26 times if you buy it. the idea was if you purchase that you can lend it back and forth 26 times on the premise that after 26 lens it would dissolve or go away. it's hard to imagine that a physical physical object would go away. that rule has not gone away. librarians might be in a position not to do the same lending on a free to all basis

in the same way they have been able to do historically. that seems to me a perverse outcome. not not a great version of the future that we actually have less access for the public on a free basis. we need to figure out how to had that off. the exciting part from my perspective is that we are at a moment where we can design a bright future bright future and imagine a different kind of a future to build from this image of building from the boston public library. you can imagine an image of this particular edifice that we are in here. why i like this moment is i think we are, as we were 150

years ago, that moment where we can figure out what we want the future of libraries to be when it's a combination of the digital and the analog. i think we are at a moment if we step forward and invest in the future and have very strong democratic principles and have very strong democratic principles behind it, we can actually create something vastly better than what we have had in the past. based on the past that has been done and what is happening in silicon valley and on the web. it's very exciting develops developments and access. we have to think like developers and innovators. i often think about this particular design which is the building that i worked in at harvard law school. this is the side elevation of lang doll hall. if you imagine what it was like to build a great library you imagine the process that people went through. many architects, teachers, librarians and students and people who were going to use it. they imagined what it would look like. a space for teaching and people to come in and do their work and think about these glorious environments.

i think we are at a similar moment for libraries in the digital future. what we need to do is bring together the information architects of the digital age together with the librarians and the users of today and along with people who have designed both physical and digital spaces. i think this is a moment where we can make something that is really exciting. if we scrolled back a little over a century, you may notice the language in the charter for this particular institution, the free library of philadelphia, it said there's a commitment on the part of the city to build this for the use of a library for the people of philadelphia. from from my mind, this is the moment to pivot. to build an institution and a set of systems that will support the public in a similar way only in a digital era. several years years ago people came together and this happened in radcliffe

university where people made a similar kind of commitment. a group of 40 people said they want to build something that will be a platform for libraries that will be an open distributed network of online resources. they want to inform and empower everyone in the future generations on behalf of our country. this sounds like a crazy, naïve thing naïve thing to say on some level but i actually think it is a similar historic commitment. it would support all these institution in crucial ways. only to do so in a way that's designed for digital era and to connect the digital and the and along. you might say that sounds really good, but what impact do we need to do to create such a thing? i think in a way, what we need to do a step back and say what are the elements of a library in a digital age? what are the things we need to create that will in fact be supportive of

libraries? not in any place a replacement of what happens in a physical space but something that will support it. clearly the most important thing in libraries is the librarian so i think this particular book, sibley o10 and i wrote it as a love letter. whether it's a research library or a public library they are providing a essential service. i think some of the best teachers are school librarians who support our kids is there trying to learn digital techniques and research. i think it's about training and development of humans. it's also thinking about libraries in structurally quite a different way than we have in the past. one of the arguments that i make in this book and think we need to pivot toward is to stop thinking of libraries as individual institutions that are

competitive with one another and see them as platforms in a network world. this may sound the technology jargon and to some extent, it is but i think it's important technological speech. i think in this moment one thing libraries can do best, is actually drawn other aspects of innovation in our society. there has been so much amazing development weather in silicon valley or places with very large commitments to r&d in the technology world to develop things that libraries haven't done. i think if we take those same techniques that have made the internet and the web so paros for powerful and combined them with librarians we can do it in a powerful way. if you think about libraries as not being standalone institutions that try to collect the same physical objects in it competitive way, there was a

sense that we were competing on the size of our collection. if we had the biggest stack of books we had the best library. i think that's an old way of thinking about it. rather how can we collaborate to serve the communities we have. in thinking about this digital public library of america we are thinking about building a digital platform that will support everybody. it should bring both materials together but also people together in a way that's really productive. i think the most technical that my slides get for this presentation but what it's describing is an open system with lots of open code that technologists and libraries that share and can share in a way that it comes from all libraries. anybody can export that information and create different forms of it to serve particular communities. four years after that commitment

to make an online national library which we have, it can be found online so if you have a smart smart phone here you can go to the tla and you can access the digital library of america. it has contributions from all around the world. what's exciting about it is it has drawn upon many big institutions in the nation. the smithsonian big public libraries like new york have been major supporters, harvard university of virginia and others. any library or any person can download those materials. ultimately we are seeking to build something that will be truly national resource. you can see from the map the map of the country is filling up. the notion notion is for every state we hope to have a

hub that will allow people to digitize materials and share them on a national basis. about one third is covered with state hubs. pennsylvania is a hub in development and we are hoping that before long this library and others will have a mode for digitizing the unique resources that are here and sharing them on a national level. let me give you an example from massachusetts which is lit up in the red color over there. in massachusetts the way it works is that there is a statewide system run out of the boston public library which is called the boston commonwealth. there are 351 cities hundred and 51 cities and towns. what we want to enable is for any institution whether you're a local historical society or an individual or a school, you can say come to our historical society and bring the things you

think are unique and scan them in the librarians do the critical work of adding what's called metadata which catalogs the information effectively and then it goes into the statewide system and with the digital public library it then goes into the national system. that way these little collections that are around the country can be pulled up into the national system and accessed from anywhere. you can imagine it's kind of an exciting idea that the cultural resources the historical resources from all around the country can be accessed in the same way. you might think that's what the web does anyway but it turns out the way we've been digitizing materials, it's actually very hard to access things that are held different hands. we've spent millions of dollars cataloguing material in the harvard library but i challenge

you to find it. the idea behind this new system is to get some winnebago's and we'd outfit them with scanners in the back. you can imagine really tired librarians or volunteers driving across the country in these winnebago's and they pull up in a town and say bring out your scans and people would bring out these really amazing photographs or books or images and they would get scanned in the back of the winnebago and the librarian or the person driving it could figure out what the metadata was so you could situate who was in the picture and imagine the documentary writes itself. i'm driving zero winnebago across the country, i have written a letter to the winnebago company who has not written me back yet with an idea that this might be good, so so we might have to call the airstream or something

if we can't get the winnebago's to work. but you get the point. across our country there is an amazing store of knowledge and information and in a digital age there's no reason it has to be cooped up and local. it can be held in common hands. i think i think we could have a really extraordinary resource combined with the great libraries, like the free library of the the philadelphia and the new york library and harvard university and the university of pennsylvania library. we have all of these other collections and you can imagine the new knowledge we would create, if in fact we had those materials together. it would be like creating a digital library that people have dreamed about for a long time. this one could car cureate and take advantage of what is left in other hands. the notion is to create something that will amplify the

work of libraries. i think the idea is to improve upon some of the things that have been wonderful in the analog area. one of the fears i think many of us have is that we transition from the analog era to the digital era that we will lose some of the ways we learned in the past. one of those examples is the idea of serendipity so you may have one of the lovely images of going into the stack with a call number and looking around at the amazing books and if you are anything like me you would see the book you are after but then you would see books over here and over here and as you walk out your arms full of books you come out with nine books but only had the call number for one. this amazing idea of getting into a space and the information is well-organized and you have curiosity in your brain you cannot help but learn these things. you may think the same thing about "the new york times" like

when you read a story here you didn't know you were interested but the information was presented in a way that serendipity informs you. if you think about the digital era that can go away if you took the books off the shelves and there were no stacks you might lose all of what was around the book. that is one fear. another fear people have is that maybe what would in fact be presented as the other things in the serendipity environment would be created by a private company as opposed to buying my brand. if you think about the recommendations coming from are amazon or netflix. that is very different than having scholars in the field and knowledgeable librarians thinking about how to array information for you. all of that said, i think it is possible that in a digital era we can do just as well if not better, if we think about clever

ways to array information and present it in a way that is just as good. this is just one tiny example of that called stack viewer stack life. this is an application that has been built to work with the digital public library of america and it is meant to address the question of serendipity saying can we create a digital browsing environment that might be different but in a positive way and bring serendipity back into the environment. the example is of somebody coming to the harvard collection of books and searching on thomas pension's gravity rainbow. so think of a graduate student doing this search and one of the interesting things about harvard's law system is there is 73 different libraries. in this city there is a main library and i think you have 61 branches and you have the library company of philadelphia and you have penn and drexel and lots of different libraries.

so there is ultimately not one stack so we love the idea of serendipity but there is not one place for all of these books. but digitally you could create this and show all of the things available. you think about in new york city there are three different library systems. there is queens, brooklyn and all of the new york publics. so you could show in a digital space all of what is available. if you did it well you could use some of the great information, the meta data, the libraries have about the data/books. and you can array the information in clever ways. in this particular case the way these books are arrayed is based in part on circulation data. so it looks at the book and says how many times has a particular book been circulated and you might want a book no one picked up in a hundred years or you might want to know which version

was checked out most recently and then you can say when book was checked out by professors or as a graduate student when one has been checked out by graduate students the most time. another example you might think of would be going into a library and wonder which version of the "iliad" should i read and you can imagine adding lots of intelligence to make browsing experience more effective and not just what amazon is trying to sell to you but something that is customized to your particular needs. is this going to be better than the stacks? it doesn't have the must and the dust smell. but if we were to unleash the interesting power of innovation and think clearly about what

communities need i actually think we could create something that is just as good if not better to supplement what happens in physical spaces and i think that is what is excited about where we are headed. ultimate ultimately i think libraries need to think about solving problems people have in communities. i think this is happening in the best of libraries and in the best of digital libraries and the best of physical libraries. i think it is about creating infrastructure and a digital infrastructure that will support what is happening in physical spaces and connect those two in interesting ways to align what libraries do with what communities ultimately need. here in philadelphia i think you are doing this incredibly well. the 21st century initiative is resulting in spaces here and doing an inquiry on the needs of

philadelphia that we can meet with a digital space and the transformed physical space and calling on organizations to give funds to the team and figure out how to transform libraries in a way that is useful. i think part of what we will find is we don't need just the digital space and applications but we need amazing physical spaces. places that inspire people bring us together, and into an environment connected by ideas. this is from a place outside of boston. the adams library which was the presidential family, the adam's library. i think it is one of the most beautiful spaces out there. and i think it would be a shame as we make the transition we didn't have these spaces. it is about combining the best

of the physical with the best of the digital ultimately. but i think what will bring people into these rooms, these beautiful rooms, is not just the architec architec architec architecture. there are reference books on the table and i think some of the things libraries have done to draw people into a space, for instance for reference, those things are going to go away. i think the greatest references are going to be wikipedia and things online. it is not to say that is perfect but it has the potential to be the best in the world. i think in ways to imagine to cooperate, build and make the online spaces as good as possible but not relying on pulling people in the spaces. i think to take an image from the library company of philadelphia it is also

important to recognize the amazing amazing amazing preservation role that libraries play and the essential role libraries play toing our society and that is preserve our cultural and historical record. one experience i had as a library director was being surprised on multiple occasions publishers came to me to ask for access to physical books they had because they wanted to digitize them and i would say why are you coming to me i am a library don't you own the book? and the publishers says we own the rights but don't hold versions of the books we published. part of this was they had acare critical role but they are not the long-term servers who should

be preserving our history. so insuring we have intuitionstitutions that will be here for hundreds of years like the boston public library or the big universities libraries. we need those players to be in this same business to insure we have historical and cultural record over time. at the same time, i think we should do this not just in the local context. i argued that libraries should be serving local needs and i think we can do this in a global environment in a way that is very very powerful. as we create local institutions and state institutions and build a national digital library system i think we should do so in a global environment and recognize that if we imagine a

series of digital libraries on a national scale we can imagine them connecting to one another. the first thing in creating the digital public library of america. we get the first agreement we reached with europe which is a system in europe that is taking all of the national libraries cropping up around europe and making sure when we digitize materials and they digitize material we have a similar system so someone can search across the systems. and the point is not to make everyone of these national digital library systems the same but make them interoperable so they believe work together. the first exhibit we created wasn't just a national exhibit for the u.s. but it was joint with europe and looked at immigration and the progress of someone going from the new world to the old or the old world to do now. i don't think we have to build a worldwide library. i think that would be impossible and we would never agree. you think about how the united

nation works and how slow that goes. but instead of having 200 libraries exactly the same around the world at a national level we can agree on certain things and make sure somebody who is searching across them can actually find the information they need so a global vision can be highly interoperable and connected without being the same. we can have the benefits of diversity while having the benefit of interconnection. this is a map of utopia and my sense is that it would be great for us to have the utopian library of the future. i am not naive enough to think that. but i would urge us to think about what we think the future of libraries ought to be and seek to build toward that rather than to have various forces press in on libraries. so my view is if we can imagine what would be an incredible democratic serving version of

the digital library in an analog world and build toward that as much as possible that that would be the soundest way to go and the soundest way for our democracy. as we proceed i think it is crucial it be done in collaboration. i think this is a key to success for libraries that we don't compete as institutions but agree to work together. and i think a great deal turns on this moment and our ability to figure out how to create something that is a system as opposed to a tearseries of stand alone institutions. i am convinced we can create a library system that is greater as a whole than the sum of its parts and i am sure having a system rather than make the gap between the have and have nots week create something that is better for democracy than we had in the past and i hope you will join me in building it.

thank you so much. [applause] >> i hope if you have questions, disagreements, or other things we can bring you a mike. >> one question, in england when someone takes out a book the author gets something back for that and i know with the internet one of the biggest problems is the people who create the work are loosing money. so is there something -- >> it is a super important question. i think in whatever eco system we create it is essential that authors get paid for their work. i think it would be a terrible system if somebody couldn't try to make a livelihood as an author. i believe librarians can be huge support for that. so the collection budget for libraries that are supported by public funds, i think, should continue to do that.

no version of this future in my mind should be one where authors are not paid for their work. i think publishers should be paid and have a role in the system. i think there should be a public option at some point. i believe libraries should compensate authors on a sustainable bases. i think you can imagine a digital world with a per-lend bases. if my book is lent ten times and someone else's book was out a hundred times and i get paid less that is fine. there are a series of systems designed so-called alternative systems that could work on that bases and that is part of the moment we are in. is there going to be a business model that sustains authors and

publishers n great way. i would say there is one zone we would change the model and that would undercut publishers. i think we should go to open access model for scholarly work. many people here may work in a university setting and some universities took a pledge saying when you publish an article it should be available on the open web particularly paid for by non-profit funds. i think the good for democracy and change would vastly outweigh the cost of doing this. >> i am an academic librarian and my question is about

copyright. i guess have a couple. it sounds like dtle is an incredibly noble project and i am ready to sign up. but in dealing with our access policy there is two giant strangleholds. i think one is copyright and dealing with copyright because i think that has put handcuffs on scholarship and access to materials. and the other is the consolidation of media outlets and television radio, all of that. so how is that impacting what you are doing and what is your strategy for overcoming this? >> i think that is a great question. in many of the conversations about the future of knowledge and incopthe copyright is the elephant in the room. it is a difficult topic. let's take your moment about the question and journals and open

access and the consolidation of publishers. one of the big concerns is the cost of getting access to scholarly journals which run in the $10s of thousands of dollars a year. there is some value added but the talent is out of the university or research committee in fact the entire process is in some ways like that. if you are in a field and write agwrite a scholarly article, you get a grant, you do the work yourself and publish the article who is reviewing and editing your article? it is peer reviewed. then it is a for-profit that is publishing it. you have say who is paying the lines license to the publishers? again it is the academic

libraries. so this strange environment has been created in which the talent that creates it is the author in this case a professor paid for by the university the talent that edits is another professor at another yufrnt universities, the talent that acquires it is the library and the one making the money is the for-profit publishers. so the first instance would be for the academics to say we will not publish this way or at a minimum we will publish this way but require a version to be made open access and the national in institute of health has been helpful with this way and other universities. and i hope every university

takes the open access pledge. you are always agreeing to make a version on the web open access. so if someone can't afford tens of thousands of dollars for the journal they don't have to. the place where it is trickiest is in books which is particularly for the books that are in the modern era and they are the books where no one is going to agree with open access and authors agree to get compensated. i didn't need money or get paid to write them. authors do need money. that is a different arrangement

and it would require different for this. you point to the gnarly topics and there is more we can do with the copyright regime than we do today. >> my question is this is a library and education in general and in a typical library if it were done right, if we teach with creativity and courage, and humility, and not to mention the integrity. >> if i understood the question correctly it goes to how we can teach creativity and rigor and so forth in this new

environment. as an educator i could not agree with you more that part of what why need to do is insure our students and young people are encouraged to think in a very broadway and a creative way and an innovative way. i think one thing we imagine is our kids are able to do this inituteively and they know how to work the i-phone better than us or use the web better than us. they may have easy facility they need literal support to use it in more sophisticated ways. that is one of the reasoning i think human beings are essential to the whole picture and that is true if that is a digital or analog environment. i had an experience during writing of this book that i went to different libraries and sat in different places to be inspired as i wrote it. i was near the local library toward me and i sat there on a

day in which a bunch of students came in in the middle of the afternoon and streamed passed me and were doing a project on terminal slaws velocity and the guy turns to siri and said what was terminal velocity mean? and it had no idea. and i was thinking that librar librarian knows and she can teach you where to find it. so i think having humans whether it is digital environment or physical environment, it is crucial to the question of being creative and innovative. i think sometimes the role of the librarian is going to shift in the digital era to doing different things and guides in a different way than they have been in the past. >> thanks for your interesting

discourse. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you very much. i want to inquire with the curtailing and the erratadication of the public schools and libraries i wanted to ask you if you found any information or what the future of public school libraries will look like? >> what a great question. i think that in the context of my study i talked to a bunch of people who work in school libraries and they are such inspiring people working in the libraries. if you think about the scale of a school libraries in the united states they are on the order of 125,000 libraries period. more than a 100,000 of them are school libraries. so the bulk of the libraries are public school libraries in the coapt country. and you can find schools with great school libraries have higher performance academically

among their kids. you can make the argument this is only a correlation and not causation and it is hard to prove causation. but at a minimum it is a strong correlation. if you were running a school why in the world would you cut out the school library. it is not a lot of money. it is a great person who can play a lot of roles into the school and do a huge amount of teaching that is important for kids. these are some of the best teachers for schools at the school and principle we have an amazing library and they are some of the best teachers on our faculty. why would you cut them from the equation? i am a huge supporter and there is no question school libraries have major role to play going forward. >> i am really loud. >> this is being recorded so good. >> i am a high school librarian

and i think we are at this pivotal part -- i am in new jersey and i think we have asked to become the leaders in technology in your school and asked for more and more technology and we have finally gotten. we are proctoring exams and if we are not the library is shuttered because it is filled with students taking digital test and it used to take a best. 2200 kids take a week to

administer the first half. and i don't know if there is how we can advocate better to maintain the role in the library and it isn't just new jersey with standardized testing to move libraries more toward struggling to find our role and keep our foot in the door. i think we are the best resource in the library. and when you know the advent of technology turns us into a computer lab verses a library. >> you raised a good point. i think partly what is going on is two things. it sounded like the story sounded out well and you made a good argument and had en enlightened leadership. at the same time there is this front train running through the story which is the commitment to

standardized test taking over the education system in a not-good way. we have next week coming to our school a woman who wrote a book called the test and she is coming to talk about this. it is a great book. vastly better than my book is this book called the test. you should read it. it looks like the question of why we are committed to standardized testing. it is a very critical look but it gets at some of the reasons society is behind it. having a speaker come to her town might be a way to do it. i think there is something deeper than what you are getting out and this is something i fear for all libraries which is if they turn into nothing more than a community center where if is only a venue to have events where it is unrelated to the work i think that is a loss.

so i think keeping the connection of teachers connectors, and kids to ideas is so essential. and i hope during the other weeks out of the year that you are able to make that case. but i completely see the tension you are pointing to. i think it goes to this notion of figure out what the role is. it is a positive version of this and people can understand and see the value and connection with what kids do. one particular thing, if you are thinking about the test in specifics is the common core has a whole lot around media skills and it seems who is better than teaching that than you guys. if you have to embrace the whole testing thing then one option might be to say we are the best teacher at this and have that be a key part. but that is more of a strategic and tactical question than it is resolving the problem.

>> we think we are valued because students evaluate sources and things like that but it is a real challenge when the resources get lost. >> you are crucial. >> we think we are. but we would like the testing to go on elsewhere and take shorter periods of time. >> i suspect lots of teachers and families will agree with you and i think that is making an important argument separately. the test is a good answer. anything else? >> i am a librarian, too. i am curious about what classification system you are using? i assume it must be standardized.

>> there was a fun, two year period where i went across the country and saying if we were doing this, how do we come up with something that is simplified and common core was part of that. the idea is having something standardized but allows for flexibility over the time knowing we will not know what it going to be needed. amazing enough the group did come together around a data model and we agreed on the model with european and others and i was a little surprised it worked out okay but it has. and i expect there will be continued negotiations related to that. we had to come to common agreements on licensing and what bases we will accept them.

they have pretty much is the same amount for many years and we are grateful to get it that we do a lot of fund-raising to get the library going. i fear for the kids of today because they are making so many cuts in education. the arts is pretty much has disappeared in public schools on their library does a pretty good job of having arts programs and things like that for the children. do you have any advice for board