of new zealand. but so we would be in the bizarre situation if mann won this suit, that you would be able to say things in canada, the unitees kingdom, new zealand, australia about michael mann's science that you can't say in the united states. and i do not believe that it was the intention of the framers of the first amendment that americans should have fewer free speech rights than countries which remain within the british empire. so it is an important free speech case. the most important for half a century. and if he loses it will be -- if he loses it will be a great victory for the first amendment. if he wins, it will be an absolute catastrophe. his hockey stick will in effect have smashed the first amendment into pieces.

>> stan golderberg from the hurricane research division in miami which has nothing to do with my question. i'm sure other people are thinking the same thing. would you like to sing a few bars for us? [cheers and applause] >> no, no. i did that in front of the first judge, and -- [laughter] and she resigned from the case. she said, i'll take another 20 years of landlord and tenant before i hear that guy do another eight bars. i sang for the second judge and he added just another seven charges to michael mann's complaint just for him. so it gets worse. >> i was a contributing author to the ipcc report, buried

somewhere. are you trying to tell me that you're taking my nobel prize away from me? >> yes. i am. i don't know what michael mann -- when he resisted this thing we all took as nobel -- we tried to take his nobel prize away and he had to amend his complaint because he said he had this certificate that -- remember the railroad inning nor who ran the ipcc, heed gone to the ipcc branch of kinko's and run off like, 47,000 of these authentic looking nobel-ex-laureate-like nobel prize certificates and michael manna has his. if you get a real nobel prize you get a medal and you be to a big dinner with the king of sweden. and as you may recall, the --

got into a little trouble in india. his choo-choo jumped the track and he has had to resign from the ipcc, so michael mann got no medal, got no king of sweden, but he has got the only nobel prize awarded to him by an accused sex fiend. so that is a very unique and appropriate distinction, i think. [applause] and rejendra pants -- downey -- i'm sorry -- regendra -- his case come ups before the delhi high court. i would give anything to be before the high court in delhi because he'll be halfway through this 20 year jail term before my cases come to trial at the d.c. superior court.

>> one last question. >> yes. >> roy from the great dominion. i'm interested in who is funding the other side? because i think that is the real horror of this case. is the university of pennsylvania actually helping or is it just all the steir people? >> it's penn state. i don't believe -- i don't believe they are. there is something called the climate science defense fund and they air parentally funding it. i will si one final thing. that's an important point. amicus briefs were filed last fall and all kind of people filed amicus briefs against mann including nbc the "times," the "washington post," the "chicago transcribe bound" not because of enemy -- hike me they agree with him when it comes to climate alarmism but the understand third will be a disaster for free speech in the

united states if he won, because -- and i'm thrilled to find myself looking at this case in the same way as the aclu and the "washington post" and all these people. very unusual for me. we think it's a free speech case. he thinks it's about taking a stand for science. and yet not a single scientist not a single scientific academy filed an am -- amicus brief on michael mann's behalf and that is the lesson of this. [applause] >> he claims that he is taking a stand for science and it turns out that science is not prepared to take a stand for michael mann and that is great news for scientific integrity in the united states of and the wider world. thank you very much. [applause]

>> you're watching booktv on c-span2. with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv television for serious readers. >> we continue our visit to ohama, nebraska, with heather fryer, whose book "rem-to-democracy" examines the united states' use of internment camps during world war ii. >> internment in various forms had actually gone on since the creation of the first indian reservations really. when i started this study i became really intrigued with how many people were living in these hastily built cities, camps enclosures and in world war ii,

and turned out there were 367,000 people moved into the west during world war ii. i wondered hough they came up with the idea that the government could move people in a place they wanted them to be, create a community that made them adopt life ways that were supposed to make them more american -- but they were quite american and doing quite well to begin with -- and then release the people when the government decided they didn't want them there. and going back to things thick the japanese american internment camp the people who organized and developed those were people borrowed from the indian bureau, because it was the reservation system that was really the first set of created enclosed communities that did regiment the way that people would live in order to ostensibly make some more americans. i focused on four various communities of different types and the first one i looked at

was vanport city, which was right between portland, oregon, and vancouver washington, hence the very, career creative name, which housed 40,000 workers during world war ii. from there i looked at the central utah relocation center, which is one of the ten kind of euphemistically named relocation nevers. a site of incarceration for japanese americans and people of japanese ancestry on the west coast. mostly from california. third was the los alamos site for the manhattan project in new mexico. and one of the reasons for looking at that was it was another one of those cities that just kind of materialized out of nowhere. topaz or the central utah relocation center was utah's fifth largest city, vanport was oregon's second. loss olmos was either second or third in new mexico. so it's this gigantic wartime effort mostly for cities that

have subsequently disappeared or become something else. i was interested in the range of people who were brought live in these confined spaces, because we might kind of imagine pretty naturally, given the racial anxieties and the racial anxiety of the time, that preponderances thises a segregation situation for african-americans. but about what well to do celebrated scientists frommingom universities and laboratories across the u.s. and across the world? the first community in i study was the klammath indian reservation, analysis southern oregon, bus i started to realize that the more i looked at at the free communities i was examining -- three communities i was examining the more the expertise and the model for these communities had come from the indian bureau. so now one was re-inventing the wheel in world war ii. the government has persistent concerns and sometimes they were based in something that might be fairly real. offer they were based in trying to respond to the existing

community's anxieties. a lot of the purpose actually, for incarcerating people or containing them in these communities was it was a tangible way for the federal government to show the surrounding communities that they were managing these seemingly unimagine ann property so we were fearful of people bombing the united states and take over. it was that thursday particular japanese american people had anything to do with the pearl harbor bombing and as much looking as was done by the fbi and other surveillance and security organizations there was no evidence that anyone had anything to do with the bombing. but the government can show that we're containing the threat. we're doing something. there are bodies, people, movement, barbed wire perimeter armed guards. the government taking care of this in the shipyards in portland it whats the same thing. there was tremendous concern if we did not have the ships and

war materials we needed -- the united states was pretty far behind in the game -- there had been in places most famously detroit in 1942, 1943, there had been very, very large episodeses of racial unrest, that threatened the war effort, and also became great material for nazi propagandaists. if the united states is making these claims that it was in the fight for freedom and democracy globally and was in the united states african-americans are struggling for equal treatment within these defense centers this is a propaganda problem. so the thought was well, okay, four portlanders who have racial anxiety dish it wasn't just a camp. it was a city of 40,000 people that within matter of a few months showed up on the columbia river flood plain, and housed 40,000 people. now, it was kind of presented as an integrated city, but it was

also very clear that there was a white sector and a very, very clear sector for african-americans. so it managed racial anxieties while statement playing it as though this is a moment for american democracy because it's an inclusiveness win the space of confinement. some of ill failed and some of it forcible and it depends on which group you're looking at. so for the klammath tribe a lot of that was by force and not the way the klammath people or the people who are from the klammath reservation would consider forming a community. the internment camps again there was not a lot of decisions to be done about this. there was initially in the aftermath of the pearl harbor bombing, the weak invitation for people to abandon their homes and belongings and to go move into the interior west

voluntarily, but a lot of people couldn't do that. i mean, up and moving and leaving your business, your home your family, is an expensive and difficult proposition. so with this -- it was an executive order from the president that just said if you're on japanese ancestry you're now in a military area, and you're going to be evacuated whether you like it or you don't. people tried to actually go back people who did all kinds of things and resisted but they were then arrested and treated as criminals. vanport is the interesting case here. vanport was not a place that people were compelled to go to. it didn't have barbed wire. it did have internal security. lots of plain clothed fbi. lots of people looking for communists looking for problems like interracial dances, juke boxes were a problem because it was seen to kind of perpetuate

african-american culture and music and this could be disruptive. but it wasn't a clear surveillance structure and a lot of people coming out of the great depression this was their first opportunity at stable housing, good job. it was a pretty great place to live on a whole. so at vanport you'll hear mixed stories about this. the problem was that of course it was pretty segregated. people were cut off from being able to participate in local community. they didn't have voting rights often in portland unless they were from there. a lot of resistance to things like opening up polling stationness van port. also no bank in vanport which meant that people were going the shipyard collecting earnings, putting it in a coffee can under their mat matt tress, and then when the flood came and the federal government told people stay under you homes there's no danger and they were wrong about that, people's earnings

actually washed away. so, the games that -- the gains they got from the great depression didn't pan out although in that case the sale was pretty reasonable. people got what they expect atlanta and were free to come and go. los alamos was interesting too because most of the scientists who were there -- in fact nearly all -- weren't really given the full picture of what it is they were going to work on. and the manhattan project knew from a couple of scientists, leo, who is actually not allowed in the projects because he is considered too radical too jewish and too great a potential for sub version but he had actually clued the roosevelt administration into the fact that germany had some kind of project going to weaponize atomic energy in some way, and with the capture of czechoslovakia they now had the uranium stores to do it. so we don't know what the super bomb is going to be about you have to get people in there

build it and make sure that nobody knows this is happening. so scientists took this great leap of faith based on the commitment to their discipline, saying you're going to go to the desert, you're not going to know where you're going. your dress is po box 1663. when your children are born, if you have children in the compound their birth place is just po box 1663. no such place as los alamos. the big concession was family members were allowed to come, and that was a really big conception because there was concern the more people, you more you have to manage them. for most of those people it was what they called the scientist's hollywood, but what the scientist didn't know their own bodyguards were actual actually there to watch their every move. we have more private information on scienceties in the manhattan project than anyone keir want to know. we know where they would get

their hair cut prior to about being brought to manhattan project, and how many bagels they ate and whether they were jewish and a ten den city by commitly subverysive. so there was this promise of there's something wonderfully american about your participation in this odd community. i think that one of the things that i would really like for rathers to take airplane from the book is to realize that our story as americans is so much more complex than really just some of the standard teartives -- narratives we have been given. there's a lot of hidden histories and hidden experiences, and that the west has a unique and interesting history, but it doesn't end within when the last pioneers reached the page shore. if we hang on to that history too long some vert i

>> for more information on booktvs visit to ohama, go to

c-span2.org/local content. >> presidential candidates often release books. to produce themselves to votes and promote thundershower their views on issues.

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