congressional testimony and recently declassified fbi files. he traces the lives of key figures living up to the puerto rico revolution of 1950. he is interviewed by teresita levy assistant professor of latin american, caribbean and puerto rican studies at lehman college. >> host: it's great to be with you thank you to talk about your

work. i wanted to start with something that is an introduction to the book at going to quote you. he said most of us have a personal connection to the work that we do. and a reset outcome you set out to discover your family. and that on our families but our puerto ricans. i think that is true for those of us who were born into as will those of us were born you. i would like to talk about the discovery of a family. can you tell me about that? >> guest: well, mine was a small nuclear family. i was born here in new york. living in washington heights. my mother was from puerto rico and my father was cuban. i was the only child. there was a small but hard-working you know, and my father was very pro-castro.

we would have meetings, he would have like 10 or 15 people on saturday nights, my mother would make coffee and they would talk to don. it was exciting for me because i would hear all these exciting conversations about politics, latin america castor which people haven't heard about but was all the talk in my house. but i had an early lesson in the family and the importance of making it because the fbi came during, shortly after the cuban missile crisis. in november of 623 or four in the morning, i was eight at the time, and they took my father the way. to deport him without any process, administered protocol that i was aware. he was just gone. we never saw him again. our family was probably ruptured.

my family, aside i grew up knowing was my mother's family. that was by definition. my father was gone and, unfortunately, politics had an early impact in my life. that factored into my wanting to write this book eventually when i saw hundreds of fbi files. that made me recall how my father had been affected by the fbi. so only child they generally good student. i didn't feel there was any margin for error. my mother was working in the factories in the garment center, and i was just a good student and very curious. what, i got a scholarship and went to harvard. being puerto rican i was curious. the first puerto rican to graduate from harvard, harvard law school. i went to the library the

pantheon of the pantheon books, 50 some of the books. at the time in the card catalogs, i went through eight, nine floors. there wasn't one book on pedro. i found that striking. if anything it inside my curiosity at a point in college i found for me college at least at harvard had an abundance of options and opportunities that not much guidance. you can pretty much find your own way. that's a great place for a self-starter. i took a year off to find some of that i spent the bulk of it visiting family in order become. particularly -- i encountered a nationalist in my family who i've known pedro campos party will. he was one of his bodyguards were could have done when he came back in 1948. so when meeting led to another.

i start hearing things that were astounding, like a james bond movie to things are going on in puerto rico. it was not fully documented at the time because the fbi was maintaining the secret police files on over 100,000 puerto ricans, but did not yet been disclosed. they have not been declassified until the year 2000. but in 1974 i was getting it for stand from the people that elected, some people gone to prison, people who knew pedro campos personally. people who knew a famous barber. this tremendous story, and all was calm i was connecting the dots. one common denominator was seemed to be sort of a persistent and perhaps

unwitting, that's the nature of empire, the things have gone sometimes almost by default, just a major power simply has to be and impose itself or by sheer gravitational pull. they can infiltrate an entire culture. and they can do it, also do a little intentionally. you start to see how specifically a dominant society can impose its version of cultural identity and self determination on another country. i became aware of the element of what is the history culture which has been systematically obliterated and sometimes not to any specific set. there were different people that

participated in the. for instance, there was a guy a commissioner of education. i forget his name but he wrote the book that was a textbook on puerto rican history from about 1930-1952. really was a hagiography for the united states but it just gave a one-sided version of history. when the united united states first arrived there they try to eliminate spanish in the school. that didn't last long. so i became aware that was held of natural human resistance of being denied who you are. i saw that in the stories. certainly in life of pedro campos. >> host: great. i think you mentioned he was a major player in mr. india is a major player. you say that the story of pedro campos is the story of order

rico. why don't you tell us little about that? >> guest: the united states occupied in 1898. the next, santiago come when the most devastating hurricanes in its history devastated the islandagriculture, the coffee crop was about 50 million pounds were gone. tens of thousands of people left homeless. the united states digitally send any meaningful relief. this was in 1899. but instead in the following year in 1908 declared that the united states dollar was the only currency to be used in puerto rico. the puerto rican peso was no longer valid. there had to be a currency exchange at the two currencies which are roughly equivalent to equal buying power internationally were not equally, worth exchange on an equal basis.

each puerto rican dollar would be worth about 60 american sense by the end of all the transactions. that's a 40% devaluation of every person there think about the world trade center the 9/11 tragedy. there was terrible. there were two very large buildings, the largest buildings at the end of the day they were to buildings to look at the ripple effect that has to our society, our economy the whole global infrastructure, homeland security, a whole set of repercussions. that was to buildings. and about what would happen in the united states if everybody woke up one day in 40% of the property holdings, of the real estate, everything had was gone. and their debt had gone up by 40%. there would be a social shut down. what's happening in baltimore right now would be a microcosm of what we would be seen in every city.

this society would cease to exist as we know it. that's what happened to puerto rico. we have a hurricane in one year currency devaluation the following year and theater that unity deeply graduates of property tax that it all the farmers in puerto rico that they never faced before. we have an economic trifecta that happened at the outset of the relationship with the united states. there was a great degree of dislocation. farmers lost their farms. farmers tried to hold onto their farms. the tobacco growers touching all that about were successful at it. they had to i think were a bit more diversified because they had smaller holdings. it was doable. it was a struggle. to their credit they did but as we try and do hold onto their lives. there was a user rely restriction. the second largest bank in 1901 was the american colonial bank

greatly. within 20 years it was the largest. hl titles office properties. with the use rely restriction, farmers start defaulting on their loans all over the island. it magnify the mortgages crisis 207104. so within 10 or 20 years which have is an eternal diaspora occurring. people are being separated from their lands and no longer even sharecroppers because a lot of the land is now being turned into a one crop cash to economy with no exceptions but there's a tremendous the dominance of the sugar economy. so now you have people that were formally farmers self-sufficient, efforts are agriculture, looking forward. they migrate to the cities. understandably, they try to enact minimum wage legislation because the united states has jurisdiction over any law passed by puerto rico legislature, it was struck down. interestingly this happened in the early '20s. in 1917, order returns were

declared u.s. citizens and march 2, 1917, and exactly one month later on april 21970, woodrow wilson said this declaration of war to the united states congress. it's not that large and -- to say that puerto ricans were to click of citizens in time for mentors conscription into world war i poster that's an interesting point and something that scholars have been dealing with for a while. i think the idea that the jones act, imports of citizenship for the jones act is going to be the eventual drafting a puerto ricans into the war. has been questioned by a lot of scholars recently. one of the arguments against that is puerto ricans were considered, since the act was passed in 1900 they were considered u.s. nationals and u.s. nationals could be drafted into more. in other words, if you were a u.s. national you didn't have to be a citizen to be drafted.

in fact, citizenship in terms of war draft would not have been a major motivation for the jones act. >> guest: that's a good point but there are enforcement provisions that go along with such a. i would counter that that you tell that to puerto ricans who are down in the island who understand the meaning of citizenship and a part of it is also social conditioning. once you feel you are citizen you to allocate a. a lot of it is voluntary compliance. you have to show we're talking a point about close to 1 million 2 million puerto ricans. off of is something i would explore and sorted it case of first impressions, i will simply submit that it just added to the weight of the conditioning that you're going to have to show up. so that's number one. number two it became community qualified five years later when

they tried to enact minimum wage legislation and the congress won, vetoed it, not one. and number two 1922 it was ruled that since puerto rico was an unincorporated territory of the united states, the u.s. constitution did not apply in the quote-unquote citizens of puerto rico did not have any other privileges and immunities of being a citizen. so therefore, let's reverse-engineer the situation. given the fact you were declared a citizen in 1970 but you're denied any of the essential elements of citizenship to which the protection of u.s. constitution, and you can back itself into this scenario. why we declared a citizen in 1970? is not to provide you protection. if you don't have first amendment rights because public law 53 with two than in 1940, if you have to petition the u.s.

congress for any law which can be vetoed unilaterally by congress are a united states present to you been given an ap shell of a citizenship. you were able to go fight in world war i. for me this scenario is very clear. and that's something i could research and spent another two years of my life on husband this stuff is all never-ending. >> guest: as far as these two these to go to harvard harvard law school, first lieutenant in world war i. but he comes back during the height of the concentration of wealth and power in puerto rico. and starts rapidly becomes a one man law office compass and the leadership of the nationalist body. quoted as president. and very quickly he sees that they're sort of a one-sided relationship to the united states and puerto rico.

as a highly trained lawyer, he knows the meaning. he understands the meaning of being quote-unquote a citizen and not having any other privileges. so we advocates organizes editorializes for years about the independence of puerto rico. that united states, it doesn't matter. they know him in his own house. it only becomes an immediate focal point when he leads a strike in 1933-1934. it ended up the net result of which was doubling the sugar cane workers' wages from of the 75 cents a to $1.50, a 10 hour day. that was massive. that was the difference between starvation and not. and it was in the depths of the great depression. this was 1934.

well, that's where the story of pedro campos is the story of puerto rico. because of that moment precise event is when wall street and washington finally recognized that there was something happened in puerto rico. finally, it became a stone in the shoe of the powers that be. there was an immediate reaction. they sent a new governor when he was a u.s. army general company police chief, yale graduate had been a military adjutant sort of like, sort of a 007 going to different cultures. wherever he would go to be a destabilized regime. his father was the president of the national bank. the bank was at the core of financing a lot of the destabilizing of these regimes. the word filibuster originally

meant to go down to the south or central american country and start a fake revolution that was a disguised right wing takeover that would install a dictator that was from to the united states interest. that was called filibustering. so he came over to over basically, not just the police chief of puerto rico but to oversee the riggs investment, that investments all over south and central america. but he was basically come in as a colonial overseer for that financing, that wall street conglomerate of which the riggs bank was a part. riggs and a very famous meeting with pedro campos during the height of the agricultural strikeout be invited pedro campos to a meeting of a very eloquent restaurant, at which come and go multiple witnesses and is reported, written about by various biographers he made

a naked offer from abroad, $150,000 offered to pedro campos if you're basically backup of the agricultural strike. kind of soft pedal, tone down his nationals to me. essentially, just i think what he was going which is an advocate for the independence of puerto rico. a mildly but from the comfort politely said he was up for sale and he left the luncheon. it was right then at the reprisal second the first they tried quite a bit when the bride didn't work him it was plenty. there's also more to the wanted 50,000. they gave him a path to becoming the majority leader of the senate. it was a pretty nice attractive package. it was the equivalent of -- the devil take you to the top of the mountains of all this will be yours, just come with me. so returned them but that he was

basically offer particular definition of it, he took the deal and it went that way and he developed that an american embrace of the fall of 25 years of his life to the point where he was a sponsor of law 53. and all sorts of repressive legislation in puerto rico to make sure that nobody complains about the united states. so he walked away from the meeting with riggs. the violence begins almost immediately, harassment all over the island. as nation's -- assassination threats and attempts. three nationalist and a guy buying a lottery ticket was an innocent bystander were shot in october 1935 in what would become as the massacre. and immediately thereafter -- shot by a policeman. the police chief held a press conference, brought them in because he wanted specifically

to get dependency these words. when asked what's going on can you contextualize and explain these open air in the middle of the assassinations? and he said, very simple. if they continue to agitate the sugar cane workers and universities there's going to be war to the death against all puerto ricans house of representatives and then a few days later made a speech that was reprinted where he said tiny team has made the call for war. and i will answer the call with more. and he uses the same light which come war against all yankees. >> guest: when someone is coming after you, to basically kill you, you have to set -- >> host: i'm not saying that. >> guest: it was done at the funeral, for the three deceased. you see the pictures of 3000

people surrounding the funeral caravan. nationalist party had won gold in world war i by point. they flew over the symmetry and they dropped light lilies over the people, one memorable moment. so that's what i chose as the title for my book because it bespoke, not just the utterance of the word but the fact that you will say that to an entire people, to an entire island is equivalent to bull connor in the african-american civil rights era. and in the third purpose when people started to appreciate both connor because he was so open and declared. you could appreciate both connor to be both connor. bull connor would bring about 500 the dogs and get the best photo op imaginable so the

people good-naturedly see what was going on in the south. and it accurately help the civil rights movement. it was a prison and the hindsight of history it's beneficial we know now that this is the way they were rolling puerto rico. this is how it is. this is the sugar constructor we want to pay these wages but if you don't like it we wish you chew. if you don't like that we wish you choose a more. it's called the work is all puerto ricans. the fact that the police chief of puerto rico would say that one of the clearest expressions of empire. so that was where the story about pedro campos became highly joined with the story of puerto rico. because his life was come his life in fact was defined by his leadership, the leadership role that he played in the agricultural strike. because it was then that the violence begins and it was then that the charges of sedition and

spears against the united states, he ends up spending 25 years in jail. from 1936-65 is 29 years. so shortly after the agricultural strike, he's in jail in 1936 completed the math. that leads in far years far years outside. those far years he was surrounded and followed by a platoon of fbi agents for her five around the collector to maintain troop strength get to about 20 fbi agents assigned because it's around the clock. 20 fbi agents assigned to one in october that when of that when he got out of jail in 1948 after having spent the first 10 years in jail, in december of 47 by june of 40 they passed the law, law 53. the law of the muzzle which made illegal under a word sing a song, whistle a tune that had anything to do with company then fly the flag. but even more, that if you owned

a flight. meaning if you have a flag in a shoebox in your closet in your home, the police can come in knock on your door if you don't open it they can break down your door find the fly maybe plant a flag and then you're you subject to 10 years in prison for the. and to create an even sort of additional layer of surrealism to the. george orwell wrote 1984 in 1948. it was published in 1949 became a bestseller in the united states and great britain. right around that time was when law 53 was promulgated, and the island of puerto rico was locked down. they have aggregated a first amendment right of an entire island of 2 million people to shut up 1 million. george orwell was alive and well in puerto rico at the same time

he was a bestseller up in new york house of representatives let me bring you back to puerto rico for a minute. i think that you throughout the book you describe indifference of disrespect of the u.s. clone of regime in puerto rico and puerto ricans. i think that's very clear that you just talked about it quite a bit. i think there are many instances in your book not to say that wasn't the case but there are other instances in your book when you demonstrate in washington was responding to complaints brought over by puerto ricans, that puerto ricans were robbing us of the episode want the conversation to go because i'm interested in the way that puerto ricans negotiated this emperor. you are familiar with my work. you know that's a good ascii. on page 60 you talk about speaking about governor riley come you talk about a cessation of puerto rican leaders going to washington to remove riley's

removal. a grand jury bring a formal charges. resistance and, of course, that leads to riley's removal and resistance against the next governor. editorials in the press the senators better criticizing gore. so these were sent to cover the island, but it was the actions of puerto ricans and all sectors of society the force the removal of those men. and i'm wondering it's not a unilateral expression of power, because puerto ricans were not accepting a unilateral expression of american power. so i'm wondering if you can't even with examples in your own book do not consider those expressions of resistance in any

way? >> guest: but also consider the expression of futility for this reason. let me explain why. there can be a situation in the corner of this room that i will acknowledge when it becomes either too loud or inconvenient it is there but i don't have to deal with it until it becomes, it becomes an issue. >> host: fair enough. >> guest: these people that would be traveling up to puerto rico, one of them came up and saw president have to talk of independence of her become partly as a path and he started storing as an example. it was president abbas it was a chief justice of the supreme court in 1922 when he presided declaring puerto rico, the constitution didn't apply in puerto rico. so the fact that people can come up and say decades and yet the

united states has unilateral disposition over at is as persuasive to me as a statement that therefore, qualifies or modifies the existence of a colonial relationship post but i'm not saying that at all. i'm not saying it doesn't discount the relationship i think it's very clear. even today right? that is not under debate the what i'm asking is, is this idea of a unilateral manifestation of empire. it's unclear from the evidence thatch have presented because you -- aspect i'll give you another example. [talking over each other] >> guest: he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar. he was appointing people who are incompetent.

it became too much, even the second of four, i forget who it was at the time, said this is highly embarrassing. .com would've been fired or his other public sector, he was assistant postmaster i believe in kansas city. ..

he was almost single-handedly created a revolution himself. >> host: >> host: it was intolerable because puerto ricans are making it that way. i want puerto ricans at this time and not just the incredible important voices, but i want to know what puerto ricans were doing. they were not the only voice in this time. and people ratcheted it. people were organizing. people were marching. secretary of war and secretary of agriculture and everybody in washington on a regular basis. it wasn't just the legislature. regular puerto ricans affiliated themselves. i want to know more about what we're puerto ricans doing. reading your book you get a sense of the story clearly what

happened was abuse. all of these things are abusive. i think it is convinced in. we know it's part of the record. you've done a phenomenal job putting it all out there. i am wondering about puerto ricans. i want to get away from the idea that puerto ricans are fake guns because it takes away power. >> guest: i agree with that. if someone has been victimized they have to call what it is. feel their way to treat a disease is the diagnosis and then apply the proper medicine. an external agent has been affect men manipulating and extract and while from what should be a sovereign group of people. we have to acknowledge that.

my book is a testament to the resilience and independence and the willingness to sacrifice on the part of many people for an extended period of time. but it's also what is done to them when they express that. the fact that he was in jail for 25 years and remind the united states of its own founding principle and all men are created equal. to be jailed for suspicious spirits see and a mounting body of evidence that he was tortured and jailed and subjected to something called tbi, total body integration is beyond belief and yet it is a matter of record. i look at the fbi files. i've been looking at the medical reports.

we know from the pulitzer prize that they were at least 16,000 individuals who unwittingly suggested to radiation experiment precisely during that time i was in jail. the fact that people are not inherently thick terms i am all for that. the fact that we puerto rico have maintained our culture and language despite a century worth of attempts to either modify or even eliminate schools is a testament to the inner core defensive selfhood. for me that is a given. it is so obvious that on my part it didn't require an argument

that puerto ricans are not victims, but puerto ricans have been victimized. there has to be a recognition of what the historical underpinnings of the relationship had been in order to arrive at meaningful discussion regarding the future. >> absolutely. i agree with you. one of the interesting things is you are right that the project included americanization. but it included and didn't know better as they say. and where the guy eating light. when that project got to puerto rico it had to change constantly because puerto ricans were always amending that it be changed in some way or another. my point is it wasn't only the

pro-independence fighters that were arguing for change. they were arguing over the appellations of the policy. puerto ricans are really arguing for we know that this is what you say that it's not going to work that way. your evidence about how english failed to become the language even though they tried a bunch of different laws than a million different ways to make it happen. puerto ricans still speak spanish and puerto rico. this is a clear example to me about the empire can have a particular plan at the plate has to deal with local reality. may have to deal with farmers who are organizing and lobbying congress. all of these factors at people which changes whatever ideas they may have about what is going to look like and puerto

rico. so i am curious how much say and i think it was quite a bit how much of the running of things which in the hands of puerto ricans and we find evidence at this time. in this chaotic time. of the 30s that quite a lot of it was in the hands of puerto ricans not to dismiss what happened with race or any of the incidents you talk about but i think we have to recognize there is more activity. >> the puerto ricans are in charge of something that they weren't and still aren't in charge of come a puerto ricans are in charge of their own maritime, foreign relations, their currency legal system laws that are subject to plenary jurisdiction of the united

states. they have no federal representatives. they have no control over the sugarcane economy which is a dominant agricultural engine for about 40 years. >> guest: clearly it was a world market. >> it wasn't just abstract market conditions. it was south puerto rico sugar. puerto rico owned about half of the arable land a sugarcane plantations in the acreage under cultivation was 200000 roughly. tobacco was a dominant -- the dominant economic reality of puerto rico is the sugar in the

sugarcane. i don't think that the history of sufficient puerto rican control. puerto rico is an island that had its legs taken away from it in a series of crutches. one decade after another 936 all incentives from wall street to san juan for 117 years in the net result which is not dead the indigenous manufacturing base and puerto rico has been a series of short-term capital intensive attack the basement deals for foreign investment. the most recent under which john paul sent another hedge fund traders get to come to puerto rico and receive a 20 year tax abatement on interest, dividends and capital gains income.

saint anne puerto ricans faced to baffling tax hikes in one year. water and electrical rates going up. maybe then discusses the taxes and puerto rico that come to the point where puerto ricans cannot sustain this. at the same time new yorker magazine bloomberg news "wall street journal" and "new york times" or the carnival market. there's a horde of people. the best of which made $15 million in the 2007 and a real estate grill property mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps. the fancy financial instruments were based upon people losing

mortgages. this man is now starting at $500 million resort complex and bringing no further other syndicates under the auspices because the same predatory capitalism from 2007 is now being imported and puerto rico under the 20 year tax abatement. this is no different from the banking syndicates that came in an appropriate puerto rican lands and sat back in wall street as did charles herbert allen. then he resign. he quickly went to wall street and saw himself as a treasurer president and member of the board of directors of the american sugar refining company.

he was like an economic hit man. he turned it into a crime spree because he goes back and against the president does guarantee trust and sets up the banking syndicate and the people he appointed into the government bureaucracy, gave them a favorable water easement, tax abatement deals preferential treatment because these relationships and people he could call in puerto rico he was given a red carpet as i said before to be one of the people that led the charge taken over the puerto rican economy back then in the same way john paulson is now. i'm sort of going on the -- on that link here. to bring it back and wrap it up the benefit is you could see the

fire hydrant and take a photograph. the perverse benefit of police chief rick says that he would other words as fantastic and surreal is a work in all puerto ricans. when police shot four people in the massacre killed 17 unarmed men, women and children that were simply marching in support of and recognition of the nationalist party singing and puerto rican national anthem. that was their time. you could see the teeth of that empire now a little more subtle. obviously it is a point of a god. -- point of a gun.

on wall street events at the expropriating huge amounts of puerto rican property and yet it's the same net result. >> i think one of the interesting things to point out that it's also been studied by other scholars is the independence movement which is sent in a document really well in this book, how to be affiliated with the crime. i wonder -- i've been reading quite a bit lately, but i also wonder maois asked me why is there not more independence. clearly it's the climate system even with participation we know it why is there not more agitation. clearly part of that is the

criminalization. i was wondering if you can't comment perhaps on that. as the independence party in all of your studies -- what happened other than the criminalization of it at the end of the day we don't have an organized numerous, healthy independent in >> the more visible event were some i decided the massacre and people being gunned down in the street without much apology or explanation. some other visible moments were when the nationalist which is one of the major events of the subject matter of mud look, the revolution of 1950 was spread

through eight towns on the governor's mansion, the way the united states reacted immediately come a day to play 5000 national guardsmen. they arrested 3000 puerto ricans and a bond to towns in broad daylight. 10 p. 47 fighter planes. the only time in american history the united states intentionally willingly, knowing they bombard its own citizens. is that the high points people are aware that it can get to that point. are, the united states response of the immediate affect event coordinated. puerto rico especially at the time separated from the mainland by a couple thousand miles of

ocean from new york and washington to puerto rico a language a culture 400 years of american history and technology. technology is important because there's no internet. no television, talking about 50, 40, 30. the only thing that got off the island was controlled by half a dozen wire service reporters they were basically american reporters they would feed their stories to the major mainstream news papers in "the wall street journal," "new york times" and they would regurgitate a prepackaged story. it was reported that peer as a national riot. and not was the puerto rican riot. they would say that there was a gunfight. the word god i is definitional.

there can't be a gunfight because you don't have a gun. so it was the knowledge that this sudden, swift and severe no matter what you did it would be misreported and you are living in a complete vacuum down there. so there were peaks of violence but as an everyday reality you have the two dynamics that perfectly exemplified public while 53 that i mentioned before was passed by very quickly after he came back from prison with the specific intent that it was an anti-communist measure and are closely correlated to the language in the united states.

but there weren't any in puerto rico. it was clear that it was intended to stifle and corral. the fact that you have a law that criminalizes as you said free speech, anything you say, any word literally, that gets into your character and you look at the other element that are secret maintained over a six decade. right after the strikes. and when he cannot contain the problem in puerto rico after that strike. both decade and decree 100,000

files on people, it's not just the files. think of the file as an organism. how does that get created. the fbi and police had to be reported to that. so now you have a situation for the fbi is turning brother against brother in puerto rico. the way you get the informant is not because puerto ricans are inherently treacherous. you would worm your way in. he would call someone into the precinct and say we were such as a general open a file on you. do not put their arm around them. so you know what, we don't believe it. we think you're a good guy. with the way we're going to believe that if you can still

come back and tell us about those other bad guys. you are a good guy. you were with us. but now we have you on whatever initial pretext we are going to turn you and it's a very easy process. and it's cancerous. it's viral. when you have that going on 60 years for two to three complete generations, people are born and raised as their living waking reality one generation after the next. a sense of looking over your shoulder at divisiveness factual miss creating solidarity i was sent to stabilize them that on top of that you will go to jail. the end on top of that if you want to get even more testy about it, we will shoot you. if you going further we will

bomb you. so add all that to gather and actually have a sense that if you hated and becomes part of the dna to not create the once solidly unified, overwhelming prepossessing and abdominal voice that has to be heard and finally realized historically back then they wouldn't get off the island. the revolution in 1950. they were trying to make a dramatic statement for the decolonization could become aware that there's a real palpable issue on the island needed to be addressed before the 1952 approach or the 1950s

bowed creating the path and feathers the history of trying to get the message off the island. that was the message that their son being in a relationship isn't working and people need to hear it. >> host: i agree with that. i wonder also if you run ended dna evidence. i have been reading about coming to an election year and parties will be put on their platforms in puerto rico and i wonder if the independence activists have been unable for the past several elections to get folks to even be in the ballot officials

without having to lobby for it. so i wonder if there is something not work. i suspect that there may be a party perhaps has not put forward a vision that people can buy into. this is part of moving toward the future. maybe an awakening perhaps they're everybody in puerto rico to look at our history with new eyes and to really understand where we have been. the interviews i've heard you have argued that the future of the eyelid needs to be negotiated with all of the information in our hand and this is part of our history. i agree and think that it's happened from a position of

power in your book is part of getting into that position of power. i think i would like to hear of last word about what you think about this been in a position of power. >> at thank you for this moment. i went to give recognition to luis gonzalez who came forward to translate this into spanish. [speaking in spanish] it was thought to picture meant his greatest thought to picture meant his greatest passion of the trend waited on shop or senate and i also want to recognize carlos gonzalez aponte aponte -- [speaking in spanish] a leader of the puerto rican party who has reached out to me and has been toward making a

multicity tour engagement are the work which is to me and this happened really quickly. contacted me and other members of the pip and have read the book. the fact that very quickly they integrated the facts and the world view and that they are ready to deal is probably the most important galvanizing element at this point especially with the economic turmoil happen in puerto rico. i heard a great interview by a woman who is a senator in puerto rico which is an independent member of the vip. she is so eloquent, so specific so detailed.

this is not a commercial plug. but it was on a so-called oca. the interview with william martinez. he's simply googled the words. it is an hour-long interview and she was so on point with the tying and other historic elements but the political undercurrent that are running through puerto rico now. the historicity of her party and in a sense the inevitability of some of the dynamics happening in puerto rico. you are right electorally it is derived partly from history. it derives from the fact the two majority party is how the law hold on the electoral system very much like democrats and

republicans here. but they lost that narrative of the island because the truth of the matter, the concrete fact that the island is adrift right now. right now it is equivalent if you remember the movie rocky where he is seeing triple and its managers have had a guy in the middle. they don't know which direction they are turning because it's brought our lives. based on specific thing they could aggressively agree upon but in fact you have one party submitting impeachment petitions against the other and the message that goes out his oath parties are divided intrepid self-interest. and they fight over what may be a currently untenable proposition of statehood for puerto rico which although there

are benefits there are so many constitutional and economic obstacles to god that it shouldn't be the center debate. the center debate is how to resolve the debt of puerto rico and how to work the laws different way. >> host: that belongs to all of us puerto ricans. it has been a pleasure. good luck with the book. congratulations on your book tour in puerto rico. >> guest: thank you.

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