[inaudible conversations] >> the committee on space will come to order and without objection the chair is authorized tour declare a recess at any time. welcome to today's hearing entitle the international space station addressing operational challenges you have the written testimony biographies and truth and testimony disclosure for today's with this is part or recognize myself for five minutes for an opening statement.

good morning welcome to our hearing today and i want to thank our witnesses for taking time to appear before the committee. since 2013 the program has experienced a number of challenges we have thank committed to identifying challenges to address them and reach our goal and justin lehigh -- commitment. at the iss have had water leaks third three times with one during a spacewalk. april 26 an unmanned russian vehicle damage stave reflector while docking with the. >> host: team per could generate 14, a false alarm of the ammonia leak caused the crew to retreat into the russian segment. october 28, 2014, the

unmanned cargo launch failed after launch for april 28, 2015, as separate russian cargo failed to reach the iss. june 7th a plea and boost of the hall. >> host: t using a vehicle failed but eventually was successful after troubleshooting. june 10, the vehicle fired in june without being commanded and most recently june 28, 2015 the un may and spacex cargo launch failed as well. these highlight the challenges of operating and co -- in space. and the astronauts must be ever fit and -- vigilant. the fact the program could

respond to the setbacks is a testament to nasa, iss and contractors. we do not know the root cause is yet but once we have more information do we will be better suited to review those events. we kiddy vibrate the operational status of the iss to assess the prospects of future operations. the iss is one of the most complex manmade object ever built for the american taxpayers invest $3 billion per year in this laboratory. we must ensure every dollar is spent effectively and efficiently it offers a microgravity environment for scientist a and engineers to utilize. nasa ever released the

benefits this retailing the many benefits iss improvises back to our lives on earth. from expansive is of human health and performance the benefits we received are many and diverse the iss offers the conditions necessary for critical technologies and nasa authorization to read the administration to utilize the iss folder this port -- purpose. that nasa is on the cutting edge to develop the system we need ever deeper into the solar system. right now captain kelly is

on day 104 of his yearlong mission for human spaceflight. in addition to the research programs the authorization act of 2005 designated part of the iss as a national lab at the authorization act directing the administration to sign a cooperative agreement with a nonprofit to manage it. selecting for the advancements of space to the the effort. noting a recent report to make great strides to major progress is made in a quantifiable manner. i hope to hear from nasa to day the agency is making progress from gao.

as you keep an eye on the present utilization of the iss we must look to the future announcing support for extension of the program 2020 through 2020 for. absent action from congress the administration would be required to close out of the program. and then the authorization act requires the administration to provide a report to congress and how to quantify benefits back to investment for the extension and.

over a government wide utilization plan every a knitted the facility is in orbit we're doing what we can to get the most out of their. so for them to extend the iss. we have a responsibility to make sure the taxpayers get all they can from every dollar they send to the federal government. this is worthwhile and the benefits far outweigh the cost. support for the iss and utilization is not a partisan issue but an american insurer and i look forward to working with my friends on the other side of the aisle to understand how we all meet the operational challenges facing the iss

program i now recognize the ranking member from maryland for an opening statement. >> good morning and welcome to the distinguished panel of witnesses. so '02 address operational challenges i reminded the challenges that nasa and the agency faces to operate the international space station would be more concerned if we were not able to overcome some of those challenges. it is to the crew that is true. we saddam is in this room and looked of this great to have the opportunity to communicate with the crew on board including the astronauts from maryland. i promised him crabcakes it

unfortunately with one of the accidents destroyed my crab cake delivery. but he did visit my office a couple weeks ago and we made a bouquet. to connect real-time those astronauts carrying how to research with this amazing laboratory 250 miles above us thought every day the minutes is an inspiration. and many school children had the opportunity to ask questions to learn about space flight. but yet to see if those from the laboratory we can forget just how difficult and risky if it is true maintain the international space station

because sometimes think it is ordinary. internal and an external and human health hazards posed significant risks the unfortunate loss of a the spacex resupply mission two weeks ago along with the year earlier losses of the cargo missions over the past eight months is a stark reminder of the challenges they have to face. in the international partners i am confident teesixteen collaboration with nasa will identify to resolve the problems to be resupplied to the iss as soon as it is safe to do so.

actually it has been through its partners. mr. chairman we don't have time to use their. this temporary facility is authorized through 2020 and it cost $3 billion of taxpayer dollars every year coupled with the challenges of seceding operations we need to make sure our vision is clear to use the unique facility. but the number of iss has grown as concerns were raised okay. and to draw a new commercial users including pharmaceutical companies to use the iss.

the funding for the iss research. >> and in addition to constraints to the i ss as well as power and cruz time limit what the research can be accomplished. is in that regard we want to understand the application of cargo supply interruptions as crew operations and sustainability. in addition there is critical work to be done with human health research and needs to be carried out if we make progress to a long-term goal to send humans to mars. the obama administration will extend operations through 2024. three rationale is to complete research of human

generation in orbit engaged in research from which we see here and to give massive private partners more time to you transition to commercial protuberant focus of a human exploration of deep. so just to examine those rationale with the international partners so we have a lot do discuss and with that i yield back. >> recognize the ranking member of the committee the gentlelady from texas. >> holding this hearing on the international space station and look forward to the testimony and i welcome them. is no secret i have been a

supporter of the iss to play a role in research of human spaceflight and then with the incredible engineering achievement the benefits that could be derived from both peaceful and international cooperation in space. failure of transportation emissions that is not easy. in then to have the impact on the of program as well as dealing with them going for her. id ... learned that date to be applied to the cheers for station program. i said before the iss is a

perishable commodity. we need to be clarified and asset dates to accomplish raw it is operational. -- while it is operational. moving through 2024 to maintain the iss involves risk and at significant opportunity cost. we made to ensure it is used in a way to maximize productivity and value to the nation and. to make sure that technology and research is carried out. it is clear we need to make the necessary investments. stagnant budgets do not communicate the message that we are serious about the technology efforts that can only be accomplished on the

iss. that is a problem that congress could and should fix. we have a lot of issues to discuss to dash look forward to a productive hearing and i yield back. >> if members i'd like to submit statements they will be added to the record progress this time never like to introduce our witnesses. the associate minister of human exploration and operation mission director agnes the. second, vice president general manager of space exploration for boeing company and third the nasa inspector general sense 2009. the third witness is the acting director of acquisition for the gao.

the final witness is an associate professor of kinesiology and also retired astronaut in order to allow time for discussion please limit your testimony to five minister entire reinstatement will be made part of record. un now present your testimony for the next five minutes. >> 80 for the opportunity to testify on behalf of myself and those who work on the international space station. one of the most talented teams end of world. an amazing research facility to day during the expedition there are 329 research investigations in progress. from human research how the human body performs in microgravity, biology, a biotechnology, of physical

science, technology development and education. there has never been this cobra of research on a continuous basis. also in the midst of a one-year crew expedition to give detailed information with a shield an adaptation with mission duration approximately to mars for also a twin study how the human genome changes when exposed to microgravity. we have kept a presence for almost 15 years 83 countries from around the world had used it for research and private companies through the national laboratory have used the iss this week in boston there was the user's conference it is an exciting time as many see the advantages of space based research said growth is exciting to show there is

the unique properties of space to those on the done honor through a so it provides a window to any physical process the human body reacts in space with conditions that mimic those facing the elderly like immune system degradation and muscle loss. with the unique insight treatments could be developed based on space station research. operating in space is not easy three cargo vehicles were lost in the last nine months to show the difficulty of operating in space. they have different designs common heritage, manufacturing, and utilize different trajectories. the failure of the three system shows the difficulty to operate in space.

but this is not churl we are operating the systems and we think if only it would provide more oversight to lower the cost of cargo delivery but said demand to escape gravity is the same level of risk the matter how much insight we have. but to give us insight to help us understand we can get better designs. but to legislate can distract the team and even after these operations there were not impacted these are to the teams that manage and operate the iss their learning from the columbia

tragedy with they had to operate without the shuttle for several years. with logistics' resupply they're proving their worth but they're not without consequences some of these performance goals will not be met they are at the avery research. does not enough to recover the impact of the delay of the flight that was required to have the teams understand the progress required it to the go three weeks longer than planned the impact had real applications to students and researchers to lost cargo on the flight then lost a the replacement parts where again on the spacex flight. the loss of the docking adapter can be adopted

without impacting the program but to results in the dollar's lost. iss is a phenomenal resource intend then for private entrepreneurs in benefits directly people of the earth. but operating under frontier is not easy as we don't need to get complacent they are not routine or easy. but the iss team can look for ways to improve to give flexibility to manage the 82 understand how great candy have the benefits it will take longer to be realized but the benefits will speed

up the expectations of all involved. thank you to the committee for their space flight with the authorization activity i look forward to your questions. thank you. >> now i recognize teeeighteen for five minutes >> chairman and ranking member and members of the subcommittee they queue florida day opportunity to ruth justified to provide an update on the international space station and with boeing. congratulations in your selection going is prior to support nasa in the assembly of the iss. the prime contractor delivering pediments of the iss to provide integration for the assembly of all

international elements. we continue with rabil today. on november 2nd to the rules will celebrate 15 years of continuous presence in space with international cruz living and working aboard the i assess when many would cry a gap in the space program as we transition me know that america and the partner nations are making advances every day. the international space station is recognized as the largest most complex scientific engineering project in history with the largest endeavor in space. ongoing improvements make it better for the station brought together hardware and software from 16 countries around the globe in 37 states with 37 suppliers. the size of an american football field is larger than a six bedroom house to

have the internal pressurized volume of the 747 from a shining example of what could be achieved for the unity of purpose. as the contractor boeing is responsible to insure the of full availability for the international partners and private companies and to perform this role we work with nasa over the past 10 years we have reduced the cost has enabled the improvement with the docking system with the commercial vehicles. with the peak efficiency

with performance well into the future. with the major card where components the study indicates and long-term viability is the important factor for researchers at have considerable time invested for operations in pro in with their research capabilities is the utilization to enable continuing kim is space exploration in the quality of life here on earth. iss continues to be used to support deep space exploration and to address needs for future exploration

and did a test bed for how the body reacts to weightlessness to develop countermeasures. all these things are important before we explore further into the solar system for research has led to improvements from the medical field to observations to provide clean water an underdeveloped countries to how we diagnosed injury patients in remote areas. i have had opportunities for those who did not have the space program and without exception in nearly every one of these conversations these leaders expressed a strong desire to be involved in space and to inspire the youth with high technology

and a significant source of national pride to recognize the tremendous vallejo to all who are charged with said national asset. we must ever take what we have for granted to be sure the iss is well founded and operated in fully utilized. i look forward to your questions. >> i now recognize mr. martin for five minutes. >> thanks for inviting us to be part of us a discussion to maximize research on day iss as time for a topic over the past eight months the office of inspector general related to the topic of

today's hearing including reviews that examine nasa's plans to extend operations through 2024 and those of the crew with five more reviews to manage health for extended exploration and the challenges to cooperation in space. the audience laugh september to extend the iss reported the agency had identified the zero major obstacles through 2024 but we found there must address technical challenges with adequate power generation in light of degradation as well as a limited ability to transport replacement parts.

while officials estimate the annual budget of three and $4 billion through 2024 we anticipate the cost to be higher. first much is attributable to higher transportation costs. we found nasa's estimates for cargo optimistic. second, most agency international partners have yet to commit to operations beyond 2020 and a decision by one or more not to participate will the jump of the cost for nasa the number one operational risk for the program is to ensure the availability to deliver supplies. while nasa is working with providers for redundancy flights are now on hold pending the outcome of fax an investigation but this

failed cargo flights is in three ways but i never went to reduce crew time due to a temporary delay and read turning the crew complement. by increasing cost to replace the lost research and number three to relate the return of experiments to to a suspension of flights by 86 the only a company capable to bring curve go back to earth because it is a research platform through long-term habitation is the important part to send him is beyond the low corporate. utilization of the iss for research has increased over the years but several factors limit the full potential. as an astra is brought

aboard nationals -- nasa is in position to use of crude time to devote to research and also a tour reconfigure the iss tarot figure those commercial vehicles that will transport astronauts beginning 2017. last year nestle hoarded 6.$8 billion in contracts to the wing and spacex to complete development of their systems but it faces significant hurdles including and stable funding , the need to provide timely requirements in certification documents thank coordination issues of other agencies. given the importance it initiated a follow-up audit to review the status of the commercial program. that concludes my prepared remarks.

>> i now recognize ms. oakley. >> good morning chairman, a ranking member and members of the subcommittee. they give for inviting me here today to discuss the work on asset management of the international space station. as you build united states has spent tens of billions of dollars to develop and assemble the space station over the last two decades. we could spend billions more to further capitalize on the investment given the potential extension of operation through 2024. today i will look at the three areas and finally the the steps to better document progress in this regard. nasa continues to make a significant investment each

year that is projected to increase over the next five years mainly because the iss program will begin to fund commercial curve flights. in 2020 transportation cost will be over 55 percent of of $4 billion budget. on my transportation costs costs, cost to operate and conduct research are projected to remain relatively stable through in 2020 per officials have indicated the funding priority is cruz safety a transportation, and maintaining facilities and research and as a result any increases to transportation cost could diminish available funding for research. furthermore the potential increases to the iss budget as a result of 2024 are unknown. nasa faces several challenges to negatively affect efforts to increase

use of iss for science including failures and delays some limited progress to raise additional funding for research increase crude time and facilities they have had a direct impact on the effort to increase research on iss. delays have already resulted in a loss of sponsored research and increased cost of beverages thousand dollars and do not forget your crabcakes. additional increases are likely as a result of the most recent failure to absorb these increases has san continue to of the challenging to raise additional funds for science from the external forces. for example those that receive contributions but to

face an increase of commitment specifically in 2014 received commitments of over $12 million. it also faces challenges of competition for available crude time and heavy demand for key facilities to limit the amount and type of experiment that can come to iss the crouton is already allocated at 100% to redress the challenge now is dependent on commercial crew providers who promised the capabilities as planned. with these capabilities nasa can had a crew member to devote most of the time to time. however many technical challenges than the ability to fund the program could delay the efforts. finally even if they can navigate the challenges challenges, demonstrating a

return on investment is difficult and scientific research. in the short term it is essential that the continued to make progress to achieve the goal of the increased role and we reported that nasa could do more to define and assess on progress and for example, by assigning a measurable targets to the annual performance the tricks. they concurred and agreed to take action and respondent in conclusion it will likely require continued investment through 2024 and as a result to reassure the capabilities are being used to support scientific gains is critical furthermore to mr. duke and communicating the return on investment to help support nasa to achieve the shared goal to sustained commercial

markets in low earth orbit. this concludes my prepared remarks i am happy to take any questions you may have. >> now live a lie to you recognize the doctor to present his testimony. >> thank you, mr. chairman. cook met -- cavorting thank you for the opportunity to discuss this research is the only platform of its kind and it is the essential to the nasa exploration goals. to prepare for the hearing here last for specific questions. i will address each opportunities and challenges. the augustine commission face the three stressors prolonged exposure to galactic radio shack a prolonged periods to microgravity and confinement

in close quarters all of these are present in the iss environment. marsha an operation in that war stressors which they did enviro the gravitational field with more than one-third of our zero new york. unless they limit the centrifuge a day are limited descending and those to mars with no knowledge a over their responses a gravitational field less than hers. two challenges dominate the landscape we can reasonably anticipate it will become worse as the facility ages and the demand to perform maintenance become more acute it is of matter of case sponsored research

compete for resources with better coordination is needed. ask about critical areas of research the national research council survey that was completed 2011 at congress a request summarized 65 higher priority tasks and the steady created research plans to build a research enterprise with the goal of the human mission to mars. to ask about prairies' prioritize the research is not a new concept we have been to read that close at 15 years but it is and scientific it is something like this the fundamental research or transitional

research takes precedence over the research program purpose of the answer to the question has to be provided by government. once those priorities are sequenced can be prioritized the research? absolutely. the survey provides a very detailed scheme and criteria led to do so. the process operations is well understood cases receive 50 percent followed by human research then technology and what resources remain are devoted to biology and physical science. and the criteria that they should consider. with a simple yes or no question with a robust program exclamation point

absolutely did transformation it was nothing short of remarkable. i have provided several examples but there are large gaps to of mars that would be one year or longer in the recently reported on this topic first they found the extension through 2024 would not provide enough time to mitigate human health risks perspire not prepared to except that conclusion ted these risks a task analysis of future operations it did not address for additional

research. has the better to quantifier utility is the good metric but we need to look at the efficiency of the research in their research cheyenne is considered with a six person crew read the seventh member. my top recommendations are prioritized refused the essential resources with the nominal responsibility is research. and to extend biological experiments to incorporate marsh said gravity.

bet i am very optimistic that nasa can deliver another decade of research. thank you for your support of the program and the opportunity to appear. >> thank you mr. pawelczyk all witnesses thanks for your testimony and members are reminded committee rules to limit questioning to five minutes and the chair recognizes himself. this question is for mr. gerstenmaier end mr. elbon the spacex mission had day docking mechanism with water filtration device and then do spacesuit on board. can you explain the impact of loss of these items and how do you plan to mitigate the impact? >> starting with the docking adaptor that is scheduled

for the crew was lost we wanted to have two units in orbit before we began cruz flights we believe we can support them schedules to be as simple as us bear or a backup to work with the contract to get that on time but the docking adaptor is the cargo flight when it docker is sufficient to support the program and they can accommodate that the biggest impact is the cost to manufacture a third unit from the spare parts that remain with the multi filtration said the a japanese his fur vehicle flies and i guess we should get a new one manufactured thing studio steepening work of bowing to expedite the work. we have been trending down

on doriden estate -- the space station and we will continue to monitor that carefully. the boss of the space to we will now reconfigure one. we will do repairs and have that available. and then to look at the orbital sciences corporation and to carry spacesuits is in the future read mitigated all your concerns but the impact is not significant we can accommodate. >> i will add to what he said the most difficult and involvement is the docking adaptor. in the third unit the parts are available to put the

plan together to replace the one that was lost and we're working very closely to undersea and though water filtration issue to get those ready to launch on the next resupply vehicle and i a agree we are in good shape >> next question is a the aerospace safety and buys every panel is reviewing the objectives for continuing you san clearly articulate to ensure the cost in safety risk is balanced given that human spaceflight is risky it needs to be weighed against the value to be gained what are nasa objective to expand operations through 2020 for?

>> in then to ruth talk about the microgravity environment than have that risk mitigated to launder endeavors we have detailed investigations with their courage when your expedition to redress many of those issues and concerns moving forward. >> what is inside does nasa had been to the mishap been performed at spacex looking at the challenger accident and columbia you believe the investigation benefited from independent reviews separate from the program or the contractors?

>> meyer understanding since the faa granted the license to spacex they are leading the accident investigation with the orbital mishap that nasa has us separate review to get to their roots cause there but there is and the same accident investigation that we're currently conducting with the contractor last accident investigation that is the way it is intended to be hispanic that completes my questions for girl. >> thank you to the witness is.

mr. merges report of september 2014 with of budget of $3 billion per year that it is reiterated through the testimony but i am curious, mr. gerstenmaier, talk to the basis of crew and cargo transportation costs and i would note there has been three cargo mishaps in the last eight months does that factor into your projection for cost? it seems that alone will shoot the cost up as one could expect over the course of operations through 2024. so it would be helpful to

know your basis for the estimated cost it respond to the challenges mr. martin has laid out in the 2014 report. >> we have been working aggressively with cost control and consolidated some contracts to raise smaller number and also using competition into attempt to root drive down the cost rate now rewritten a blackout period through the never to contract award. we have good competition from that activity and will help us to hold the costs down for career actively working and aware of those issues as they have the objective strategies for it to remove cost for the

program every think we can hold that cost down from what we have done and seen. >> mr virgin -- mr. march said your 2013 report is your assessment that the projections are overly optimistic? and with your analysis with your mishap failures in terms of looking at the cost? >> diane not sure how many accidents are factored in but i do think the cost objections are optimistic. over the life of the program there is and 8% increase annually from 2011 to 2013 there was a 26% increase for

the iss no moving forward extending the life of the station through 2024 that 59% of expenses will be four crew and cargo transportation and that is the big piece of the pie. >> for the panel if you look at the rationale to include research and technology to benefit society to establish commercial crab row and cargo if you believe what that top priority should be bin to figure out first, ed dr. pawelczyk? >> that is a great question in extremely important for

the said committee to take on. release the idea of discovery science the big questions to have been inserted. so of a piece of research equipment when it was largely used in the nobel prize winning awards. social have a return on investment gives a translation and we have contended in the scientific community it is not our job to sequence those priorities but the job of the executive branch or the legislative branch to you have been clearer you said mars is

very important but it is the and nestle will maintain the fundamental research program so you have already told us mars is the answer edward you look at the research the remains to be done over the risk in the red most of them or half of them are associated with the extended duration on mars with three years' duration and. so to provide extended research capability the iss is our choice for that and that is how it should be used. >> thank you. >> i will recognize mr. brooks. >> mr. gerstenmaier, it in light of the recent launch failures for the development

production of the commercially provided vehicles that service the iss is part of the a accident investigation with spacex. >> we have the representatives as part of that to be actively involved what occurred on the cargo vehicle within the hardware changes that need to be made somewhere actively involved to transition that information directly into the crew program. >> i appreciate that response and and i experience it has a tremendous amount of insight and expertise and i encourage an asset to show a the leadership of what they're doing to assist with

a commercial crew to being more successful than they have been. retrospect to both mr. elbon and mr. gerstenmaier the loss of the spacex vehicle is a big loss as a replacement space to -- spacesuit for the iss whether the implications for the loss of the suit? >> as i describe your there we will take one hit inside or been refurbishing of their then develop a capability to transport suits on all vehicles to bring up as needed. >>. >> with the analysis necessary to make sure the space station with the

capabilities. >> what is the cost of the lost space suit? >> i can take that for a the record we have 38 available and we will not replace that it will not be replaced. . .

transparent investigation? are they investigating without nasa's role? i think he he could go into greater detail. under the contracts the faa gives the license. under the contract the contractor leads the investigation and review. unlike past challenger where nasa themselves would need an independent investigation board. nasa is a member, or an advisory member of their review board. they they are not leading the activity. perhaps phil could go deeper on that. they are participating with the ntsb.

they developed a fault tree just as nasa has done. the way they work that is that all three entities all have to agree that this item is closed and not contributing to the accident. it's by consensus and the engineering team led by spacex but fully represented by the government and the government can't say whether we accept or do not accept their explanation for what the root cause was. it's a fairly effective way for us and we can do our own independent research on the side. we can make sure we are representing the government. the best from nasa participating along with the contractor let activity. >> do you feel confident that there is that transparency and that we as a body of congress will be able to see that transparency? >> so far it has been extremely transparent.

we had the same transparency with the orbital investigation. it has been effective. we can show direct evidence of how that transparency is and how it's being implemented. >> thank you. >> now i would like to recognize the gentleman from florida mr. posey. >> thank you mr. chairman. we know that planning for the iss began 20 years before it was actualized and now were less than ten years out from the administration's proposed extension in 2024. does nasa have plans for some station in lower earth orbit before then? perhaps private partnerships? does nasa intend to leave any station entirely to other

companies? >> we are looking to see if we can leave that to commercial companies. we are allowing them to do investigations on station to see if they can get a market return and it make sense to do that. we believe the agency's role is to push further out in space and go into the region around the moon. we will move our research and our endeavors into that region. it helps the agency get prepared to take bigger missions toward mars. at this point we are envisioning a lower orbit that would be private sector activity. we'll use the remaining station to let the private sector understand their research and investigation to see if it helps them from a fundamental research standpoint. >> that's great to hear. >> our government is investing in capital.

those capsules are optimized to get crews back and forth. what role capsules play once the space station reaches the end of its life? for the commercial crew program and the cargo program, the companies have an interest beyond just the nassau need. there building these capsules and will be able to operate them for their own purposes. they can use this transportation to deliver cargo to it, they can deliver crew to it etc. outside of cetera outside of the government. this will essentially allow the private sector to get transportation services on its own to these companies that we've enabled as these initial startups. >> that's great. >> the space shuttle and x-37 are both example of reusable spacecraft. they they have had track records of success. have they completely rolled out

the use of reusable vehicles for crew or cargo in the future? >> the simple answer is no. in case of the o'ryan vehicle it's geared toward deep space activities where carrying wings makes it difficult to reenter the atmosphere. the deepest base vehicle will usually be a capsule type vehicle but for lower space orbit it will be winged vehicles and they have many advantages as we saw through the shuttle program. >> thank you mr. chairman. i yelled back. >> a bike to recognize the gentleman from virginia, mr. mr. meyer. >> thank you chairman. >> on the one hand we've had three unfortunate losses that we previously mentioned. on the other hand our commercial space industry is getting ready to grow exponentially. we are adding great value to our economy and civilization with satellites, internet, space to

her's and even mars. can we put we put this in the proper perspective compared to train and airline and automobile accidents? all the transportation accidents in history, are we looking at the relatively two or three that have come up in the right perspective compared to the last 150 years question. >> that's an interesting question. i think the positive thing is in all three of these cases there have been no loss of life. that means our basic process and procedures are in line. we did the right thing. i think the right thing is to not get so fixated on the problem but how can we learn from the problem. as an emerging industry the more we fly the more we solve problems. the impacts are not devastating they hurt research but they are

recoverable. the real tragedy will be if we don't learn from these events and don't understand the engineering behind the failure and improve the industry overall. just as the aviation industry has suffered a lot of failures throughout its history, the reason for success today and the safety we have in the aircraft industry is a result of lessons learned and those lessons being applied to build better and safer aircraft. we need to do the same thing in the space industry. we need to learn from these events, internalize it not be afraid of it, internalize it, not be afraid of it, figure out how to make design changes and build a more robust transportation system. i see see this as a painful but may be necessary learning process. it's excellent to learn on cargo. we do not want to learn on crew. we will learn from cargo and apply those to crew. >> thank you for your optimistic attitude. why you have the microphone up

the safety panel has determined some key safety concerns. how do you address the concerns about orbital debris? >> we have shielding on board that can protect from some debris but we cannot protect from all debris. we've recently implemented some changes to the progress vehicle. it had new debris shields on that progress and we are continuing to improve the debris protection capability. we we actively train on orbit just as we train interestingly we train for evacuations of space stations in case we get hit by debris that penetrates the pressure cell. it is our howard highest risk and we are protected with the shielding levels that we can at the station. >> thank you very much.

>> you testified that the life space is particularly hard and a lot of scientist left the field. you have any have any concerns about the expertise in that field? especially as we think about missions to mars? >> thank you very much for the question. i'd say the short answer is no. you are absolutely right. those particular functions were very hard hit and we saw about an 80% detriment in the science portfolios and in the physical sciences. one of the great things that has happened since 2011 is that nasa has reinstituted a ground-based program. if you look at the numbers of people who are applying, there in the hundreds for solicitation right now.

there's active funding that is happening and bringing research up to the station. you are starting to see that coming back but what's even more interesting is you are seeing may be some of youngest scientists that have schooled in the entrepreneurial spirit saying this is something i'd like to take an opportunity and check out. the iss research conference this week was about three times bigger than it was a year ago. there is a growing spirit. we need to continue to feed that spirit and i think great things will happen. >> thank you for your enthusiasm. >> i'd like to recognize the gentleman from oklahoma. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you to all of our panelists for coming in testifying before this committee. i appreciate your long and distinguished service at nasa going back to negotiating with the russians and other things in the '90s. that's really where i'd like to start today. when you think about right now

given the recent accidents that we've gone through, we are seeing how important our reliance is on things like the russian progress, cargo spacecraft and of course the rushing crew spacecraft. given how the relationship has changed between the united states and russia, and we've even heard that the russians have talked about pulling out of the international space station, what is your judgment on how this relation can go forward? how is it going on the civil

space side given the strained relations in other areas? can you share your opinion? >> on the civil space i'd, the relationship between the united states and nasa and the russians is very strong. we exchanged data every day back and forth. we passed many commands to the space station russian command through uss. we use their assets for transportation re- boost. we depend on each other for operations in space and the relationship is extremely strong and transparent. in spite of the governmental tensions between the two governments it is a strong relationship. the challenge of doing space travel transcends a bit. we are working together very effectively. the recent progress and we are sharing data and working together to fly on the 23rd of this month. they have been open with us and sharing data with us in helping us understand. they understand our need and the relationship is very strong in the civil space. >> how confident are you they will be willing to partner with

us beyond 2020? >> when their federal space program gets approved later this year there will be a continuation to support the russian space station through 2024. >> we have heard that it has a report indicating the operations of the iss are going to become more ethical because of the ability to take replacement parts to the space station. recently, boeing had a report that might not have contradicted but some of those issues were discussed. can you share with us their position? they say beyond 2020 things get really difficult. your reports that 2028. can you share with us how 28. can you share with us how you're dealing with those issues? >> the study that we did looked at things like the structural integrity of the elements on board, the ability to survive penetration and came to the conclusion that through 2028 is

completely feasible relative to the hardware that is on board. the other part of the question was the logistics we supply to replace boxes that fail in orbit and to supply the crew. based on the logistics model that nasa laid out and is using for the procurement and that kind of volume is sufficient to support the logistics we supply that's necessary based on our analysis. we think through 2028 is 28 is completely doable. >> thank you for that testimony. i appreciated mr. posey's question about what comes next after the iss. clearly whether it's 2020 or 2028, we could lose partners. we don't know when we might lose certain partners. we have we might lose certain partners. we have to think about what comes next. i would like to follow up with

that by asking if nasa can provide a report to congress on its plans with a post iss station? this question was about commercial and things like that and that's interesting as well but it would have to be tested and certified. can you provide a timeline to congress for that? >> the way we need to think about that is that the next private space station will not be as massive as the space station we have today. it could be as small as there's been discussion by spacex using something called dragon lab.

we've talked to orbital about using their cargo vehicle as a temporary space station in lower earth orbit. when we think about the private sector taking over we don't need to think about this massive investment of a space station. they can learn what research benefits them, if it's in the pharmaceutical area or protein crystal growth, they can create an environment to do that. nasa's role is to move that human presence further and we want to go into the region around the moon. there may be a habitation supported by the private sector but nasa's next focus is in the vicinity of the moon. >> roger that, i yield back. >> thank you. i want to recognize the gentleman from colorado. >> thank you mr. chairman chairman and thank you to the panelist. mr. administrator it's good to see you. some days you're here after we've had successes and disappointments and i appreciate appreciate the fact we keep moving forward. it's not easy, these are a risky

business that you are in. we recognize that. we don't want to have many disappointments. we want to have mostly successes. i became more comfortable in understanding the kind of oversight that goes with the contractor led investigation process. that in fact you are very involved, and there has to be some kind of sign off as part of all of this because often times we have everybody looking over everybody else's shoulder. this seems to be a sensible way to approach it and i appreciate that. my. my questions are generally for you ms. oakley and dr.. what our research is doing on the space station that will help us as we move forward in sending

our astronauts to mars, and for you, so we have the researcher and the futurist if you will sitting next to the one that has to figure out how do you pay for it and what's the return. i'd like to have you answer, generally, how do you see the space station advancing our goal of going to mars and i'd like to ask you miss oakley, what do you see in terms of the cost and benefit from an accountant's point of view? >> i'll turn it over to you to. >> to make sure miss oakley has time, i will be brief. there are there are three issues we are dealing with. the biological changes that we see in this continuous reduced gravity environment. it is this very energetic radiation environment that we understand to a large extent from the standpoint of solid tumor. when we look look at the interaction of things, effects of the brain accelerated

cardiovascular -- is this why you have one kelly on the ground and one in the air? >> it is because genetically they are identical. the changes in space give you a chance to talk about the variation because of the space environment. of course there are the behavioral issues as well. we are moving in that futuristic role. the iss works in concert with the ground. when we begin to go to interplanetary operations, those crewmembers will work autonomously from the ground. it's just a just a matter of distance. how people function independent of this will be very different than how we operate on the iss today. >> the bottom line is nasa does need a robust science team on this base station to achieve those long-term exploration go

goals. however nasa has to be able to pay for it in the congress has to be able to pay for it. that relies on robust participation to be able to do some of the things nasa can divert funding to the long-term exploration. being able to establish those markets to do some of the research that will be required to support those longer duration flights will be essential in getting them to pay for it will also be essential. going to mars is expensive. >> are you comfortable with the accounting and auditing that has gone on to date on this program? the numbers? >> on the international space station program? i haven't looked specifically as at the accounting associated with that. i haven't seen any costs

associated with extending it beyond 2020. i think that will be key for the understanding of approving the funding and for everybody getting a good understanding of what it will take to do the extension, to do the science that's required and to do it safely. >> thank you. >> just one more question to mr. martin we've had some incidents now where there have been some failures. we had had some schools in colorado that had experiments on both the orbital launch and most recently on the space x. it was the same school. they did it twice and lost both. how do we account for the cargo that's lost? is there any compensation to those schools or people? >> there is not. i think they lost over $650,000 in cases.

nasa said they lost over $100 million. that's gone. the taxpayers will pay for that. >> pay for that. >> thank you all for being here. i yield back. >> thank you sir. now i would like to recognize mr. martin. >> as a police officer who does investigations on accidents, we have seen a big change in her accident investigation over the last 50 years. i would expect to have seen a big change in investigations over space problems over the last 60 years. it hasn't been easy going to space in the 1960s and it isn't easy today. can you have me an idea of how those investigations go today and how we can move through the process and make sure were

hitting the points and coming safer as we move through the investigation and also making sure we can go quicker. the faster we can move the faster we can do more of this. >> our under thinning is we have to be careful we don't jump to conclusions or assume we know what the failure is. we do a methodical process where we gather all the data. we need to make sure the time synchronization is critical and that's not easy. these events occur in milliseconds so if you have a camera that's running you have to make sure the time on that camera is identical to the one that's coming from the spacecraft. is the timing of when the event occurred recorded on the spacecraft or is it recorded after it's received on the ground. the radio delay time is important. it's important to get the timing down and then do the methodical

process of fault tree. we brainstorm. you lay out all the potential failures that could occur or contribute to the event. which one has to occur with another event and the team meticulously goes through and crosses out those events as they move forward. in terms of speed, what we are seeing with space axes because they are a vertically integrated company and do all their work in house, they immediately went to testing certain components. even though they they showed up on the fault tree they said let's held a test rig right now and will be prepared to go test. even the short number of days between the event and now they're in the laboratory doing some stress test on components that may contribute to this methodical

process i laid out. i think the advantage in this bead pieces, we can use tools and analysis, we have software and physical hardware tests in a much faster time than we did before. >> i agree, i talked to to spacex several times since the incident and the virgin and spaceship company were jumping on it quickly. they were learning things very fast. it seems to me the investigation process and now with private companies being involved, it seems like it is going a bit faster. that is a good thing. we want to make it safer. i know everyone wants to make it as safe as they possibly can and that's the truth. spaceflight still is in its infancy. we are still learning and we will be for hundreds of years yet. the faster we can get through some of these investigations the faster we can move and progress. dr., i had one question for you because i think there was some good conversation there that we've got an astronaut working

today and we've got one on the ground. i think we will get some good information there on what effects are on the body when we actually send people to mars on such a long, prolong spaceflight. can you give us an idea of what we will look at in the next 35 years or maybe shorter of when we are going to go to mars and the effects on the body, not not just radiation but the time in space? >> i apologize, i forgot my crystal ball this morning. i'll do the best i can. >> your kinesiologist, you should know this. [laughter] >> we have mentioned a couple of those risks we are seeing in a radiation realm. what's been interesting to look at, if i talk to, if i talk to ten years ago i would've told you that i expected to see about 50% bone loss loss from a human being. we thought that would be what

gravity confers. we've seen with some of the implementation strategies for countermeasures on the iss that were looking better than that. i'm not willing to say we have completely mitigated at this point but some of the loading strategies are considerably better. we've also seen some newly emergent concerns. we've had a number of ground taste research protocols. this is a great example of how nasa quickly identified a problem immediately engaged the community to affect solutions. >> very good. i yield back. >> i'd like to recognize mr. johnson from ohio. >> thank you folks, i'm a big fan of space exploration. i'm a big buck rogers fan and star trek and all of those things. growing up of them as kids.

i say that jokingly but i can say that sitting in my living room floor between the summer of my ninth and tenth grade year and watching neil armstrong land on the moon captivated me as it did the rest of the world. i've never gotten over that. i have i have tremendous respect for what you folks do and the discoveries we are making through our space exploration process. just one question to start off with, the iss is not yet been extended by congress. however, the administration has proposed to extend until 2024. how many of our international partners have agreed to extension and

what steps does nasa taking to build a coalition of taking to build a coalition of our international partners for an extension? >> the canadian space agency has agreed to extend to 2024 so we have one partner on board. they do a lot of the robotic activities. as i described earlier, the russians, potentially by the end of this year could be on board with an extension 22024. the japanese are actively looking at an extension and could do that by the end of this year or the start of their next fiscal year which is in april 2016. the japanese are actively working that and we are working with them. the european space agency are again working through their budget process. they've committed to support us on the orion capsule, as you know, the teams in ohio are working with them on the module that sits under the orion capsule. they're not committed to the station yet but we hope they will do that in 2017.

they're working on getting all the member states in the member countries to approve. they are just working on their governmental process. i think all partners are headed toward an extension. >> a quick follow-up, how significant of a partner are the russians? we are pretty dependent on them right now in terms of getting there and back, correct? >> yes were back, correct? >> yes were dependent upon them for crude transportation. we also use them for all to do the adjustments in the reboot station. they are dependent upon us for solar array or power generation. they also use us for commands and other activities. we are mutually dependent back and forth. >> are you having a discussion i'm sure you've heard the testimony of the potential incoming new chairman of the

joint chiefs who has stated the russians are our biggest security risks and security threat. we are in a dichotomy with the russians. are you concerned about that? >> what's your backup plan? >> first of of all, from a civil space standpoint we have a very strong relationship with the russians and will continue to do that. i think we need to look at what happens if the russians pull out in certain key areas as we are working hard on the commercial crew program, we want to end our soul reliance on the transportation system as soon as we can in funding is absolutely important for that to happen. we are moving out on transportation. the other areas i described where we are dependent, we have workarounds and we can put systems in place

to recoup that if we have to. i think it's advantageous to us if we can cooperate. there are real advantages to it. that's it. that's the right way to go forward. these and endeavors require cooperation but we shouldn't be naïve that if we can't continue on without a certain partner. >> i guess we've had some failures with commercial avenue and i'm sure you are, but i hope there's a lot of discussion going on because if we continue to experience similar failures like we had with the commercial cargo program and the russians were to back out, our options become smaller and fewer. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you i'd like to

recognize the gentleman from california. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. i remember when the space station was first approved. it only one by one vote in this committee. i'm glad glad i voted for it. don't disappoint me. don't disappoint me now. does anyone here know the level of co2 that is in the atmosphere of the space station? we have an internal atmosphere. what element do we put co2? there's a lot of talk of co2 in the planet. what does what does co2 do in the space station? >> we've been holding out low

because the potential hype problems. i think were were running about 3 millimeters of mercury of partial pressure co2 onboard. >> how does that compare to the co2 we have in our atmosphere? >> it slightly higher than we have in the room here. we've typically allowed prior to any problems associated with vision, we allowed it to go up on the order of six mm or so. that's dramatically higher dramatically higher than the environment here. it's slightly higher on board the space station the we see here. >> have there been any health related problems that this increased level of co2 that astronauts breathe in during their time in the space station as compared to what they would breathe in here? >> again, were not sure but it could can contribute to the

cranial problems which relates to the eye and vision problem we just mentioned. you could have headaches or physiological problems. again we try to control that is low as we can. we have a russian a russian device that removes carbon dioxide in the u.s. the right that removes carbon dioxide. we also have some absorbent material that also removes it. we have a next generation of system that will fly on the iran capsule and we can use that to remove co2. >> we are actually exhaling co2 all the time self were in an enclosed environment we have to be very concerned with what the human body itself is exhaling. in terms of the future of the space station, do we have plans to expand and put different elements on the space station at

this point? >> currently currently on the u.s. side, we just reconfigured the permanent multipurpose module from one location to another location. that was to make room for a docking adapter we discussed earlier to let commercial vehicles come. that's about all were going to do on the u.s. side. there is no major new additions coming. the russians have talked about a solar power platform to provide solar power energy for their segment. they also talked about a multi- purpose logistics module so they may add some new modules but on the u.s. side we don't have any major additions planned. >> the company has invested a significant amount of money with

the inflatable's and space habitat. is there any use of this technology? >> it will be added to the space station next year as a demonstration capability. a demonstration capability. this is an expandable module they'll be added to the outside of the space station. i i will stay there for about a year or year and a half. its purpose is to investigate the advantage of a expandable model. we hope to learn what we can gain from the expandable technology. has very thick walls so it may be better thermally and the acoustic environment may be better. we hope to get it and orbit test those claims confirm if the module technology is something we want to use going forward. >> it might also be cheaper than the traditional lay of building a space station which is something we should be concerned about. let me note that orbital debris continues to be, and always was, and expanding concern.

i believe this is something nasa should look at not just in terms of space station but we should be thinking about international cooperative effort to deal with the debris problem. that is is something this committee should be dealing with at least in the time ahead. second and lastly let me note that your report on your cooperation with russia during this time. when there are frictions going on between the united states and russia i think demonstrates a very wonderful aspect of space and that is that once you get up there you look back down on the earth and some of those problems don't seem as important or were able to put it in perspective.

i'm glad we are in the russians are able to put it in perspective to the point that we can work together and create a better world why while we are doing it. thank you for demonstrating that to all of us. >> i want to think witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for all their questions. if we had time i would've liked to go through a second round but it will remain open for two weeks for additional comments. you can also submit written questions from members. the committee is still waiting for nasa's response to the commercial crew hearing from six months ago. please send back a message that these delays are not acceptable. the witnesses are excused in this hearing is adjourned. thank you.

[inaudible conversation] [inaudible conversation]

on the next washington journal usa today reporter talks about the recent focus on sanctuary cities. that's a term a term used to describe locations in the u.s. that shelter undocumented immigrants. also form policy issues with clifford may and the cofounder

matthew spence. plus we'll take your calls and look for your comments on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> with the upcoming release of harper lee's new novel, book tv focuses on the pulitzer prize novelist. starting saturday night saturday night we talk about the impact of her book to kill a mockingbird, her life since the publication and the events that led to the publication of her new novel. we will re-air those programs sunday evening beginning at 6:30 p.m. eastern time. we will also discuss hillary clinton second run for president. on c-span starting at 80 stern,

commemoration of the vietnam war with readings and remarks from members of congress. sunday evening at 6:30 p.m. gop candidate visits with new hampshire residents. pres. roosevelt's actions to help the american people in the economy and sunday evening at 6:30 p.m., jeff shara will discuss the burnings in the south. get get our complete schedule at c-span.org. c-span2 brings you the best access to congress. live debates from the senate floor. every weekend at the book tv. nonfiction books and authors and live coverage of book festivals from around the country.

a behind the look at the publishing industry. c-span two the best the best access to congress and nonfiction books. today the congressional internet caucus looked at defamation lawsuits and how they affect free speech on the internet. critics have termed the problem against public participation or slaps the as intended to intimidate and silence internet commentary. this this is an hour-long briefing.

>> we like to welcome you to our briefing today entitled will frivolous lawsuits be the end of the internet. it's hosted in conjunction with the internet caucus. would like to thank our cochairs thank you for the caucus for hosting this. just a little little bit of housekeeping, the twitter hashtag for the event today is #slapptalk if you want to tweet or follow along. the information for all the panelists is on your program. we also have a number of events coming up this month. next week we have an event on music streaming. we are announcing more throughout the lie and maybe a little bit into august. so with with that, i will introduce our panel. we have amy austen from the

washington city paper. next to her we have laurent crenshaw from yelp. we have the senior policy counsel and at the end we have kevin goldberg we are looking forward to hearing from all of you. feel free to jump in. decimate defamation suits have been an issue with the rise of glass door trip advisor, facebook and others where there reviewing businesses it has come to a situation where individuals are at risk of being sued by those companies about whom they're writing reviews on this platform. while media platforms might be prepared for those types of suits, individuals are

intimidated by these lawsuits. they are scared of the cost of these drawn out legal processes and they are intimidated to take those reviews down. not. not only them but other people might think twice about speaking out against a business if they see someone else getting drug into a lawsuit. there's this chilling effect of fear of free speech on the internet recently we introduced the speak free act of 2015. it was brought in may by a number of cosponsors. we'll talk about that but let's unpack some of the legal and political issues as well as freedom of speech online. i want to to remind everyone in the audience that the advisory committee and caucus don't take any positions on these reviews

so we try to have a balanced discussion. i might play devils advocate and feel free to jump in and ask questions of each other. what that i'd like to turn to kevin who has done a lot of work in this case. in plain english why does this matter to people? >> thank you my name is kevin goldberg. i'm in an attorney and among my clients are the old school slap subjects. the american american society new that it is media as well. that includes the city paper. i'm also on the board of the public participation project which is an organization dedicated to raise awareness about anti- slap lawsuits. i clearly have a position on

this issue that these are very important method of free speech. why is is it that you should care? we will hear a very personal story from amy and i have some backup if she doesn't get to the part i really want to tell that shows you just how egregious this can be. it really does affect everybody. that's something to know when we focus today in regard to the internet. that's the biggest change in the last five years. it's not like they've only come around in the last five years, slap lawsuits have been around forever but now everybody is able to reach out to the entire world. the. the region and the anti- slap the statutes are important is that they level the playing field for you or i will we say something critical about someone who's bigger than us, more powerful than us and has more money than us. i work primarily with media organizations. a lot of them don't want to be sued.

it's a drain on their time and resources. it's emotional stressful even if you know you're going to win. even from the lawyers position i get stressed out when i have a client threatened with a lawsuit. i'd love to be a guy who sits here like in the movie and says forget this, we'll get that tossed out a court in days. it's not a problem, you will win. that's not will win. that's not real life. real life is you get a lawsuit the clock starts ticking in regard to your attorney. lawyers aren't cheap, time isn't cheap. every minute you spend defending this is a minute you are not working. every time you spend is a dime you're a dime you're not spending somewhere else. all this to defend what is in most cases of frivolous lawsuit that is designed to keep you from criticizing someone else. that's why it's so important. you may win the suit but it will take its toll. these anti- lap statutes are in

30 states but not at the federal court system and not in every state. they give you that ability to knock out the frivolous suit more quickly and in some instances get your fees paid for. if somebody brings a big corporation brings a suit against you, great you may win and they may understand it will get knocked out quickly. but they might think twice if they actually have to pay you for that time and money. that's why this is really, really important for everybody. >> would you like to talk a little bit about your experience amy. >> sure. i'm amy austen and i'm a publisher of the washington city paper. the city paper is a local alternative media and is about

113 papers media companies like city paper across the united states. our job, our focus, our passion is to cover local news. we local news. we cover local news and culture for cities across the united states. our news companies are part of this association. the washington city paper which is your local news source was sued. we wrote a fantastic story so let's start at the beginning. we wrote this incredible story about the redskins and it was called the cranky like full of let me get the name right cranky redskins fan guide.

this was in the fall of 2011. it was published right after a big loss to the philadelphia eagles. it was a monday night football game and we completely screwed up the game. that thursday we came out with this piece. there's a sports writer named dave mckenna who wrote it and he just took all his knowledge about dan snyder and the redskins and all the ways in which he had wronged the team and the way he had spent his life and wrapped it up into one very funny guide. the piece stands the test of time and everything in it was accurate. it got sort of normal play at the time. we published it and people enjoyed it. there was some talk about it but

then we soon after got a letter from dan snyder that came in this is sort of a money line, it was sent, sent, we were owned at the time by an investment firm. i think it's an important part of the story is that our ownership was in flux. so he wrote the letter to an investment firm and as kevin said, media organizations were aware that we can be sued at

>> you can tell that how -- tell us how that is changed. people can