i am jon huntsman. i started out with nothing and build an international business with headquarters in salt lake city. i'm running for governor because i know how important it is to provide the children they very best education possible. i know how to bring more jobs and bring a stronger economy and that means lower taxes. i'm running for governor because i can lead you to the future that we deserve. >> he had a front-row seat and saw the politics. why in the world did he choose to get politically involved complex.

>> he worked in some of the administrations in this time. have but was asked to run. he seemed to have a political interest and every time at the end, right before, he said no. what happened in 2004 he runs for governor. he'd been living in dc and his daughters finally want to go home so leave washington and run for office. he does have a golden name in the state and he was aware jon huntsman senior if you think about what it takes to create a business empire you have to be a pretty passionate person.

that is the influence there that makes him a little bit more capable of handling some of this stuff that happens in politics. >> they've both been exposed to politics and both have a commitment to public service so why don't they get along? what is the story? >> let's talk about the winter olympics in 2002. it wasn't a risk at all before that. the olympics are coming from 1999, they can do some trouble and bribery scandal and they need the white knights to sit so they reach out to mitt romney.

he can lean into the capital into force and realize they can't just pick him. they need to have a person to have the olympics so they do this interview with jon huntsman junior. he was running madison square garden, but they were sham interviews. they were going to go to him anyway so this kicked off to the huntsman family that they were just kind of held out as a sherrod like we are going to pick him but we will pretend. i think jon huntsman if found out through a fax. so that is the biggest tractor. in the end he still donates a million dollars to the paralympics to help them. they were successful and he

capitalized that and became the governor in massachusetts. but then they got back a long and in fact this is 200. he comes to utah for the presidential runs and he sits down with john huntsman junior in salt lake and says i really want your support and as we understand it, he says yes. maybe not officially but jon huntsman junior ended up writing a paper on the relations but then he feels no one is paying attention to him from the campaign they are not returning his phone calls or reaching out to him come he's not feeling use double. when he started running he goes

to tennessee and is talking about the senator and he sees this and he writes in a note and i think we have it on the screen so here he is writing well done in memphis you made us all proud it was just a hint of what is to come. >> this comes four months before the relationship is completely over rated. you can tell they are on the same page. it was the first and he came in second in a southern state where they were not expected to do very well. what happens is a key wants to be a player in the campaign and

when he says i'm frustrated no one responds and at the same time here comes senator john mccain. >> he's also running in 2008 and invite jon huntsman to come into iraq and so they get to know each other pretty well and he sees he aligns politically so four months after the note is written, there is a piece in the "washington post" mitt romney reads this and huntsman isn't on board and it was kind of a shock to him because he assumed that huntsman was his guy especially because a lot of the other politicians had fallen his way so there is a phone call where he says your grandfather would

be ashamed of you. his grandfather died a couple years before that so when you are talking about a grandfather that you loved and it would be really hurt and that divide split and escalated of course to the race. >> i'm not sure which one is next. we had a photo a moment ago. you considered this photograph for the book cover. why did you decide against? >> i couldn't come up with the

word. this photograph was taken in the grand america hotel after that first meeting between the two where he indicated he was going to support the campaign for president so this was right after that key moment and reason we didn't is because we didn't think this fits the tone. it's a fast-paced interesting story but it's not snarky. they had the right tone. at the end they had some classy mugshots and i still like this photograph. he starts to have political emissions of his own and returns

from china to run for the gop nomination and. he did this to some respect but also he didn't think mitt romney was the right guy to take the party to the white white house and until jon huntsman junior jumps and environment or they were in liberty state park in new york and there was a great day for the huntsman campaign it was the day before it became a campaign because they have passes for the reporters that had. the microphone is gone, the music is dead, none of the reporters have power. so they take the reporters up and take them to a bus that has

arabic writing and they had actually gone to saudi arabia. for the have to go off and go to the plane and later that night it got pulled over and the driver got ticketed and it was crazy. it was a bad start. michele bachmann got a month newt gingrich got like two months. it's never really picked up for him. they had to switch from the strategy to the garden in new hampshire and just lived there with his family. he really did think towards the end of that there was a search and they had a packed victory party but in the end they came in third and although he stood on stage that night and said this is a ticket to ride and we

are going to south carolina she knew it was over that night and he didn't want to say that to the people excited in the room that worked so hard for him but he knew that his campaign had come to a screeching halt. >> at that moment he had much more presidential campaign experience and you write in the book that they called him an annoyance. >> they knew in their mind they had no chance he just worked for barack obama and now was going to run against. he worked at the administration and now she wanted to have his own administration so they said we did this before he doesn't know what he's doing and in the end in some respects they were right the campaign failed. >> the one thing to point out on this is if you look at the bill in 2012 because their own lanes.

then mitt romney was his own man. jon huntsman was in the lane as the direct competitor and he took shots at mitt romney constantly. you add that information on me and his family, they were a significant irritant far more than the actual polling presents ever came to presence ever came to be because it was more personal. to dispatch michele bachmann so what, but to take out he had to back stab him in the last election. >> and of course he sees the writing on the wall and endorses romney. we do have a clip and then we can discuss but this is jon

huntsman withdrawing from the presidential campaign. today i am suspending my campaign for the presidency. i believe it is now time for our party to unite around the candidate best equipped to defeat barack obama. and in the space between the issues i believe that candidate is governor mitt romney. >> what do you see in this? >> to watch how his face shuts down when he gets to the governor mitt romney. you know, he didn't want to endorse them. >> that's the only time that he mentioned it in the entire speech in fact leading up to that statement, he was going off about how horrible the race is

going and in fact if i can read a little bit for the buck real fast from the chapter appropriately titled of the reporter had the question referencing the days before they had hit him for being detached from the real world you think they took them through the shot in the back. they were were prelude in the playoffs and if you look to the endorsement it looked like he had a lemon. i felt the quickly or to quickly grade was like a backhanded endorsement. at that time they accepted that endorsement. after this, you never see jon huntsman involved in the campaign again. >> he wasn't invited to a lot of republican events after he starts talking about a third-party candidate vanity and mitt romney wins the republican

nomination at this party in tampa and florida and jon huntsman is nowhere to be found. >> so they parted ways. years later now how is the relationship? do we know? >> publicly they are fine in and out of my ear each other but there is no relationship between the two. if you look at last week mitt romney had several candidates and a bunch of people in the city in the senate. jon huntsman huntsman isn't fair and wasn't invited. this is the state as well but that isn't something he's going to extend that to. >> the governor of the picked mitt romney to win the olympics and who later becomes the confidant when he runs for president of a major award in the state of utah and he was the presenter and every group at the table if you look to the list of who's who the only family that

wasn't on the list, they didn't show up or buy a table and if you are in the utah politics and certain parts of the national politics, you know you have to pick one team or another. >> when they were campaigning very high-profile, lots of attention. and in the book he describes them as different kinds. >> they really are. look at the first run to the white house if you look at the labels everyone is running romney is the only one that's labeled with his religion. like rick santorum or the governor mike huckabee and former massachusetts governor mitt romney it's always that kind of thing so mitt romney had to take this on his own he gave it to the big speech where he tried to say i will not take direction from the church, and

throughout the campaign obviously he didn't win the nomination but 2012 comes back again this time it's kind of a shared burden. the approach was different between how he approached his state and how jon huntsman approached his state. mitt romney wins his - where's the faith on his sleeve and is a very devout orthodox mormon. he's not somebody that's ever going to drink a beer or grab a glass of wine. he will talk about faith and defend his faith very much so. jon huntsman returned from china and one of the first things he does this not go to the church, he goes to a barge evangelical church of 20,000 people in the room and has talks when he was asked do you consider your self mormon and he said i consider myself a cultural mormon.

so this does show not all are monolithic or her name tag riding a bike down the street but there are different kinds like different kinds of catholics say they pick and choose what they like but there are some i got to have a couple of beers during the weekend but to church on sunday and still believe in the gospel with maybe with that slide in some ways. in some ways that helps nudge the church a little more mainstream that people can - it's not just the mormons. they get to see that there are different kinds of people. >> it also was picked up properly in the state of utah which is dominated by mormons. you hear cultural mormon in the

state and you know what that is. it means you are not as active as the other guy and there were a lot of people in the republican party in particular which is synonymous and who felt she had deceived as governor as the sitting state senator and you saw there was a poll and jon huntsman junior by the massive margins had 50 percentage points lower. if they took the hit in 2008 shared burden in 2012 without now.

>> if they thought about the third run this january this was an signally saying i'm going to talk about my new religion and if you ask the family that happened here the first race they didn't want him to be labeled just a mormon candidate even though that is the way that it worked out and they didn't want him to be looked at as beard for being mormon. they didn't want that to this to be something that hung over his head. but they realize this when you shut off a huge part of your life, you're not relatable. he's been in the corporate board rooms most of boardrooms most of his life and it's hard to understand the situation but if you can talk about what it's like to be a mormon bishop they shut us down for so much.

>> a field it seemed to me to the republican national convention. he's about to be crowned as the gop nominee and the people bring forward the neighbors who served with mitt romney in the belmont war when he was present and they are talking with heartbreaking stories just amazing that makes romney seem so human. they make sure they are holding up a a fellowman in that neighborhood and it's kind of made about robot image. that didn't air in primetime. >> and that's what people remember. >> fast-forward fast forward to today there is a crowded field.

we have marco rubio donald trump and yet we don't see either. why is this story relevant today? >> mitt romney had five presidential candidates in the state of utah which is a very active base and if you are going to run in the presidential politics today you need streets cash. that makes him have the ability to play the kingmaker role wherever he directs people they will have a pretty good advantage. some of you might have seen the documentary but also kind of humanized him but also that out after the presidential race. you don't do that if you don't want to be relevant.

if you just want to fade away in history. we don't think we've seen the last of mitt romney and we don't know the role that will be. for the father. he had a national campaign to boost volunteers and he went to the country and did that. what he did recently is have a boxing match. they helped see the vision problem which is a nice effort and probably a fun night. we didn't get to go to bed. i will tell you i'm sure the photos are more impressive than the actual video. >> jon huntsman junior is a very moderate republican and he knows he is not well positioned to run at this time. that doesn't mean he's done.

he might run for senate in the state of utah in 2018 when senator hatch is expected to return. he's actively talked about it as the secretary of state. for either party you as the ambassador for barack obama. he and his dad said watch 20/120. you never know he might run the next go around. a lot of people in the republican party these days, the gambit is the pendulum is going to swing either way. what makes them or center is the marriage and climate change. on tax policy and stuff like that, they are pretty straightforward republicans. >> he seems to be developing an image of the policy won't. he's got the note label party doing this radio show.

mitt romney seems to be loosening up a little bit. >> that depends you can see who might be on the ballot later on. we probably are not going to see his name but you might see jon huntsman junior grade so he gets to have a little more fun because he's going to be demanding. he's now going to help somebody else succeed whereas jon huntsman junior may still be running for something as we go forward. it's kind of a waiting spot for the cabinet secretaries to be in either party situation. and yes he, he is still active putting out a lot of policy stuff. he wants to be taken as the intellectual candidates going forward. they've also drilled into their

90s and the public service. so what's the next generation look like? >> let's start with romney. just like that romney wanted to do everything his dad did come his son wants to do everything but his dad did. actually all five went away because his mom went. he actually stayed in the very same apartment that a state when they were there. he has the same degree. he works in the same business and venture capital. he has covered everything and he wants to follow them into politics. the hard part is that running as a romney of massachusetts is a rough go right now. his dad won the governorship but wasn't very popular at the end. the presidential race didn't help that. so he doesn't have a good place

to run. in utah. josh romney, one of his other sons that wants to be involved in politics and right now he runs his own real estate company that he is getting involved in issues like the homeless shelter and he backed a candidate and is often talked about as a candidate. the problem is that the family has an east coast that you've got to be successful in business and let your kids grow up and then you can run for office. so you can run but the question is where. it's very much like the fact you come from a privileged family you are expected to give back so jon huntsman has a concert pianist and wants to play symphonies around the world, second oldest daughter you've

probably seen her on msnbc. she's probably the most likely to jump into politics and has openly said she would that she would be interested in running for office and where she would run for office is where she considers home which is utah. we have some time and she is going to maybe finish her credentials in the media, get well known, come back in utah. john huntsman also has two sons in the navy. one will be flying jet planes soon. so this is another generation that we could see very much stepping into the public limelight. >> before we get to the audience questions i just wanted to see if there was a favorite thing that you've discovered something something for the research that's just the sort of and you can't stop thinking about. >> for me how they became prominent i just assumed it was his dad's business and giving

big money away. john huntsman junior, his younger brother james was taken from his home when he was at which are and the fbi got involved and in the process and fbi agents got stabbed in the chest into this is dramatic news and he credits that episode with his family becoming well known more than anything else which i didn't know about. but i cover the 2012 race. we all knew things were going really badly but talking to people after words about how bad it was and how there was just a little communication and how he could maybe get his chief strategist on the phone sometimes come it just amazes you when you realized they were able to do at least third-place in new hampshire with that kind of a structure in the campaign.

>> audience, it's your turn if you have a question raise your hand, and we have a runner who will bring the microphone to you it's >> i have heard a lot about why john huntsman junior is the cochair of the campaign. what is your theory? [laughter] >> of a senator from utah was

the general counsel. he is as far right a senator. so he says it's because they are friends. i think the reality might be more than he wants to keep his political options open and it doesn't hurt to back a winner and even though he is a very important figure in the state and national politics there are zero people running against him and i've worked really hard. no one at this point is running against him. josh romney considered and was one of many people including john huntsman junior and declined so at that point you have a prominent thinker and john huntsman junior is backing

the campaign so that is the answer. >> the answer if you can't beat them join them. >> i would like you to talk a little bit about the seniors and juniors relationship as is luke warm at best. the last time that i saw was during the dedication of the institute just a few months ago when he was on the stand at the time and that was one of the last times that i've seen have with his father. do you know what the relationship is? >> if you look they are still actually very close and still talk every day. it was complicated for both of them during the campaign because while they wanted to talk to each other every day and they

did for the most part they went to the campaign finance law because they were running the super pack and could coordinate in the presidential run but they talk every day. he is very supportive of his son and that this is a question you didn't ask but i'm good to answer it anyway, how does he react to the idea of some of his kids or grandkids. and he's very proud and talks about how it doesn't matter necessarily what church they go to and he's a good person and everyone should be proud about that. >> we talked about a few hours and he's a huge leader and in every interview he did he made a

plug for his son being president someday said he still is holding out hope. >> i don't have a question just a couple comments. i loved the book very and congratulations. i was disappointed, two of the people you talked about are talk about are not here, romney and huntsman could somebody you did talk about is here and his father to talk about him in the book and deserves it. >> now the lights are out and i can see you. thanks for being here. >> he ran for senate, gets the job and for people in the state of utah we knew who he was because he ran the games here

and here's an example, he was in peoples sexiest man alive issue. [laughter] >> that's not a joke. and if you ever want to make an embarrassed it embarrassed you can point out to him. what happened is some other olympians that helped him on all of his his campaign his campaigns after that because it shows a level of patriotism and he led a massive organization. >> i was in college in massachusetts when romney ran against ted kennedy and of course he seemed to be running to the west. this is the same guy for the 2012 election made a speech about how he was a severely come to veto conservative governor and talks about how he wants to be his father and wants to follow his success into politics.

is that in your estimation is that kind of that ambition driving him more than the ideology and he's kind of willing to move around the ideology to achieve a personal rule? >> he said he gets the deals done and what do i have to do to succeed? to make the hard part is authenticity is a huge part of december so we talked the same so we talked about the run in massachusetts and you have to respond to the massachusetts audience and that's going to be more moderate. i think that the board in 2012 is conservative but go back and watch the first debate that's the more middle of the road

romney that he wanted to be but you have to do what it takes to win. i think what we saw that part frustrated and that you are pulled in so many different directions could you imagine what is happening in 2016 you are going to run for two years to get your party's nomination like every group is going to try to point you - will try to get every delegate. you try to broadly talk to the nation and that is tough. >> this is a hot topic but to the democratic national committee's they were thinking donald trump for entering the race because the race needed a serious candidate. [laughter] >> question over here. >> i am a fan of john huntsman junior. i thought he did a good job as governor. but he kind of has a history of being a quicker. he quit high school, he clicks

the governorship before his term was over and he quit the ambassadorship. he doesn't seem to be able to catch fire in the race and i think that he's very well spoken and intelligent. but what is his fatal flaw, what is the problem? >> he would probably say we look for the opportunities that come towards him. he set himself up as being an intellectual person he is a policy wonk at heart when it comes to a lot a lot of the things he these things he isn't someone that likes to go out and see what people want to hear and it's like in the book the favorite part of running for president is the debate heated with newt gingrich which even his daughters were falling asleep and that tells you how it was. >> part of the difference between what the career was and say something like mitt romney john huntsman junior balance

between government service and working for his father's business. government service in the administration is shortened by the fact president is only there for four years and we see this often weary cabinet member isn't going to be there for long or an ambassador isn't going to be there for very long. it's common to see someone for two years. part of that is what you saw. the amount of time spent in china, the ambassador - it's not what it was a hugely unusual step, but that criticism that you product actually hurt him when he was considering someone to run the olympics. mitt romney has a lot of business and we have john huntsman junior really not sure but that worked against them in that instance and i think politically it is a little

different. >> 2016. 15, 20 republican candidates seeking the nomination. >> may be more with donald trump in the lead. but at the july 2016 convention pc that talk convention. it's back my number one mistake wasn't reaching out to the minorities, someone who's got the money and organization and name recognition, the head of the party can you see a scenario because it's four months before november. >> i would love to see the deadlocked convention because there is no better journalism going down than that. >> mitt romney can see the scenario and we actually have that in the buck.

whether he's going to run or not i think i could win the nomination but i don't know if i'm that suited. but when he talked to people he said is there any way that he can ever see and he says not at this time or something to that effect. and politicians do that all the time but we have heard it's a scenario where the established republicans are not doing well and it sounds like senator ted cruise from texas is the front-runner. i don't think it is a good chance that - >> who gets the nomination of the party may win a few counties

in mississippi. it will be a disaster. spec lets get to the book signing. >> it's been suggested as a potential buyer of the newspaper and i'm wondering what it was like writing this book about a person that may soon be your boss. [laughter] >> sure. fun question. thank you very much. >> we started this project in november of 2013 which is well before they might end up being the boss someday and there's this moment where it became more of a chance. we talked about it and said we

are journalists. we will let them read wherever we go here. starting to compromise the reporting because someone may or may not be the boss is the wrong move. we don't do that with anyone else and i would like to take the moment to credit our bosses for not putting pressure to change anything. they hope they are going to get more pressure. [laughter] >> congratulations on the book. please join me in thanking them for being here tonight. >> you can buy copies of the book in the lobby. thank you for coming.

>> booktv visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they are reading this summer. >> i started my career doing biomedical research and she wrote a book on chemo cells they collected them from henry out of when she had cancer and they became critical in developing the line that has led to great research discoveries like the makeup of a cure for polio and get her family never knew about that and the author does the research and meets up with her family and it's a fascinating story. i'm also reading right now the

third plate by dan barber. he talks about farming and where agriculture is going and talks about the food we eat and the research that's been done in my state and district at the extension on how it affects the flavor into the different regions and how critical it is so it's a great book but i'm not quite finished yet. look forward to continuing that one. >> send us your answers or on your facebook page facebook.com/booktv. >> ginger adams talks about the 100 year struggle to integrate the fire department, which continues today. they have only 300 black firefighters out of a total of

11,000. during this event at the book store in brooklyn new york she is joined by some of the firefighters profiled in her book. >> good evening and welcome to greenlight bookstore. we are excited to have this event tonight as a quick reminder turn your cell phone on vibrate there are books at the register so we can get you to keep events like this one there will be a short greeting and panelist discussion.

we are honored to have been with us so please be aware you might be on film for this event and we will be testing a microphone around so if you have a question at the end make sure before you start asking the question that the microphone in your hand. so thanks for working with us on that. she's a journalist writing about the local politics more than a decade and is a staff writer at the dalia news event has written for the post the ap, bbc national public radio and the voice. her new book fire fight a battle to integrate new york's bravest is based on ten years of interviews with firefighters. it traces the history of race and the new york fire department for the first black firefighter to the massive dissemination lawsuit settled in 2014.

at the center of the book are stories of courage that firefighters risking their lives in the line of duty while risking their livelihoods in the system. we share the stage this evening with these firefighters all members of the society and organization to combat racism which was instrumental in the struggle in the book. the members here all currently active firefighters who appear in the book are paul washington you can clap for them. [applause] the former president and michael marshall former society advocates. the discussion is moderated by todd robbins the teachers at the graduate school of journalism

he's a former housing organizer and has been economist and a staff writer at the voice the dalia news and the observer and has written many on urban issues. we will read followed by a discussion but the panelist and then we've got time for questions like i said so please join me in welcoming all of these people to the people. [applause] >> thank you for coming into the greenlight bookstore. in case you don't know who's who i'm going to do a quick reading for you tonight and pick up a little bit about partway through

the book actually segues and it leaves in the founder of the association who was one of the first in manhattan and then also between his story and the modern-day lawsuit lawsuits when the department of justice got involved so we are picking up the history of paul and michael and this is when they stick out in the '90s and about in the '90s and that they would be with others of course. if they saw a young looking% of the time they would go to them

and get them to sign-up sign up for one of the fire department tests and a lot of the times and the applicants they were approaching would want to know what is it like in the firehouse i like the benefits. the pension sounds good but what is going to happen when i get inside? there is a group of them that turned the water goes on him and another firefighter. they thought that one of the guys running the hose was a

little into enthusiastic so they thought he was going to get read -- even though she's supposed to take what is dished out so they waited a while and when he was at a table reading a newspaper he got a bucket of really cold water and he stuck up behind him and flipped the bucket over his head. everybody thinks it's hysterical and. so we are picking up at at the appointed this is kind of a story that he is telling other people that we are telling it in real-time. so he was pleased with his revenge but if he had been wise in the ways of the firehouse he would have known some form of retribution was coming. the firefighters couldn't turn the tables on one of their own no matter how funny the result

and one not long after washington ran upstairs to go to sleep around 2 a.m. tonight that he tested the night that he tested the late hours and as was practiced he left the lights off not to wake the rest of the crew and he laid on his back and closed his eyes. seconds later a strange sensation was over his face and chest and something was falling on him. he jumped up and ran to the bathroom. he was covered in dust. as someone raised a bag of flour to spell on him when he laid down. he stormed into the next room where the firefighter [inaudible] washington kicked commands added to wake him up. you think you have a problem

get up and i will take you, he said and called him names when he refused to move. the rest of the house was silent. he went down to the kitchen and scored a message on the blackboard: the firefighter a coward and a punk encouraging him to admit what he had done after leaving it where everyone would see it in the morning he returned to the room and showed off. it was only later he learned he had nothing to do with the print but everyone else in the firehouse as washington splattered across all 6 feet of him. when his sense of humor recovered washington [cut too. sometimes particularly because go too far and become a sharper or more offensive edge. he didn't tell them they would

appoint them to go. they were in the earliest opportunity. washington didn't say something something is the firefighters who had run into danger to save the family without a momentous occasion but later cracked jokes from the derogatory comments about the intercity communities they served while if there were any amount of a continued love to hear. if washington wanted to he could have told them about the time he was detailed in the firehouse not far from his assignment. he was alone at the table. he listened to the popular lieutenant in charge the man everybody liked and respected and the crew about his college aged daughter and when they came home at a new set with a new set of friends including a young black male. the joke centered on the suspicion and a fumbling attempts to figure out the true state of the relationship.

the table roared except for washington who sat without moving. nearly a dozen white firefighters were there eating with them and none of them heard anything wrong in what the officer just said. what is it you wouldn't like it if your daughter marrying a black man they asked when they died down. he said he would have to sit down with in-laws except what exactly is the problem? the room was silent and then the table you have to do as they jumped in to defend the officer. it wasn't until 1992 they got settled in the engine number two by the lucky stroke of fate they were assigned there. not only were there more fires adding to the excitement shared by all the firefighters there were others in the house caught too. there were none of the drop-down

fights in part because there were more present and also because few of the white firefighters have an appetite for the type of discussion and beyond that an officer that worked frequently in the engine to 34 didn't tolerate this type of fighting. he started at 5 feet 8 inches and discovered a rare kind of of of am but the pitfall beyond color in and outside of the firehouse. it wasn't a characteristic he found around others. the lieutenant always had a smile in his face on his face and greeted everyone with respectful courtesy list never lost his temper but the target was reduced. washington never witnessed an explosion but heard tales from others and they sometimes met in the fire office to talk about the city. the obstacles to get on the job

and the many ways in which they can could feel isolated and alone even in the midst of the firehouse crowded with colleagues there were one or two that washington liked in the engine to 34 that would crack jokes but they didn't open up with anybody who was one of the few that seemed to get the people more than their circumstances. the two men reached an affinity that created a firehouse bond washington didn't have and never expected with other firefighters once when washington was detailed to a firehouse he got into the boodle fight who had a reputation as a troublemaker and washington always found avoiding him the easiest way to deal with them after a few hours hours into detail when there in the details when there was a break between runs washington went out and he wasn't aware of how much time passed when the door flew open and the firefighter stood there screaming his name. where have you been we were looking for you there's a phone call for you and we are calling on him over the speaker and you

are a pure taking a nap committee held. washington leapt up from the bed. q-quebec can you think that you are a bad man, go ahead and give it. that was it before the firefighter that weighed 230 pounds and have 3 inches on him launched forward. he dropped his head around him trying to choke and trying to choke and at washington twisted and spun him around. when he fell, washington held that sitting on the chest it took every ounce of strength he had to keep demand end. they grappled with out saying a word as washington struggled to hit him hard. the firefighter dodged and blocked his punch with his forearms. ..

>> >> the transfer request to quietly put in a phone call and he never brought it up to washington but both the sum up the basic reality

they will never like you. you are too proud to be black and washington laughed realizing his attitude. during 1995 he was promoted to captain then diagnosed with cancer. but as washington learned it did not diminish the spirit. he surprised washington with a gift during one of their talks. i want you to have this. piece shot to pieces of silver they were the attendant bars he knew he took the exam and the promotion was imminent. one set of bars handed down from one officer to another as a special token. washington and was proud when he made the tenant it was pinned to his caller in

his former boss live long enough to see a. there were very few men in the fire department but he had no problem to promise if they took the job they would never regret it but that they would be there to help them find a way out. you don't have to worry about going through this alone when it was 100 percent the truth when the few blacks who tried out had terrible treatment with the hope that no other black firefighter would ever feel less vulnerable in a firehouse as he did. [applause]

>> we have this joy to defy the current fifth president of the vulcan society and the first woman to hold that office. i am sure she is busy working. [laughter] [applause] >> good evening. this is a very good night to have this discussion. it could be any night but it is a good time period but i did not realize when i was asked to do this but to date is middle day. for years i covered city

hall and politics in d.c. that's nonsense for what happens every year is it the first wednesday? day empty out the entire plaza in front of city hall with bagpipes and everybody shows up with the big white hats and gloves and all the family shows up. is a marvelous and wonderful location. they gather together to honor all that acts of true bravery by firefighters and emergency services. they go through one by one. i looked at the pitcher's hand it struck me again as the first time i saw that. that i saw for a proud civic occasions to go into burning

buildings. i looked at the pitcher is a little bit differently and i thought about the wonderful location but it doesn't look like the new york we were in but it is a different city. how did that happen? to meet in during the mysteries as well as puzzles how it could be to have this wonderful organization the new york fire department and for so long at a time when everybody was so conscience -- self-conscious but to

this day it still remains such a low number we will try to answer a few questions then we will open that up you can weigh in on your feelings for those who are up here. >> would you set the stage as to where are we had now? president as the polka society but what are the numbers? water relocate yet with proportion of african-american, white firefighters is in europe -- new york. >> african-americans in is 6%.

[inaudible] every other group that is of color is under 1% and women are 0.5%. so that is where we are not right now. 75 years later to make these changes happen but the numbers are progressively moving up and i hope we pass 6% which is the most we have had. we are working diligently. >> you have been a firefighter since 1999? san to have seized some changes over the period of time. day you feel that as a

result of the legal case file to address the inequities, how are they doing? >> i think because of the lawsuits that is when the department teddies opportunity to see the minority come out and most have been record numbers in history so the last was 53 african-americans alone in one of the highest numbers we have ever had. so we are making strides in the numbers are growing. but the original amount of women was 41 now we're at

46. it is very slow but we're hoping to make great strides but because of the of lawsuits due to the hard work of these gentlemen right here. >> i heard you say this that there is a lot of misunderstanding in terms if they felt it but how high of a number in order to pass to be eligible? >> i think that is the biggest misconception even with some of the firefighters even some from the test were upset to

saying it was lowering the standards. if you get to 97 or below you will not be hired. if anybody got a 90 on a test before he cts but you will not be hired on the fire department you cannot say fatal because they got 90. they just failed to get hired so when you have african-americans who may not be at the top but at the middle they are not hired or lower on the bottom that does not mean they failed the test. maybe they got 88 which is passing but they will not allow you to be hired. those are some of the reasons we saw the disparate impact to not reach those groups because of the way the test was structured that

minorities speared that test. >> lot of people are lined up there are thousands of people 46,000 i believe. >> there is a reason for that. these are good and solid and stable jobs you have a condensed workweek that allows you to pursue at other things on your of time but there is something else with a trickle-down effect with those families who are lucky enough to have firefighters as to why this is meaningful. you came from a fire fighter family.

what does that mean? >> first i will say that i have some of my kid here today and everything you've heard. [laughter] [applause] but it is a type of job matter how oat good the job is that you don't strive to do it or people think they will be hurt so that tends to make them one to shy away but that is in a vintage that black people don't have because they shy away. my father by a full brother was the firefighter and it made it clear this is

something i could do. that is a huge advantage freddie one to claim they have a family member it is no big deal is. and very few blacks have that advantage. >> what does that mean to the neighborhood they all come home off the truck truck, what type of message does that send to the community? >> bay are very proud even when they see the black firefighters in in the firehouse. we have a decent number of blacks cry work in the company and that people see us and they'll like it and they respond well. it is important.

>> thank you for being here. talking about this stuff with me. 33 years? >> yes i have been a lieutenant 21 years i was in williamsburg. >> what made you become a firefighter? >> i was doing construction work started then when i was 80 there was no early retirement you could not retire until you're 65 i did the math with 47 years of construction work. i knew civil service the only two things i knew about this job is there was a 20 year pension and you could not be laid off so i took the dog that alone provided not believe the 20 year pension but i knew it was job security provide never had the bill i had no kids

and i was in the carpenters unions are was making decent money so i touched it cut in pay then i realized we had so much time off that i call that might hold boston went back to construction and work i did that five days a week then worked in the firehouse nights and weekends. >> i covered labor for years and i covered a lot of the construction trade with the fathers of local is used a lot with those well-paid and trades. i realized you could apply that to the fire department and i heard you say the senate, and that it doesn't change very quickly or has a hard time with change.

>> is an organization and they have to be forced as the great example of that in the years that we have started to hire we picked up almost 200 blacks and reread 300 over 20 years when a short period of time we almost doubled the number. so it can be done but the job is so against change. nobody was willing to do take this step that was necessary to change the written exam that bet -- that was the culprit that's if they reworked their exams but they also change their exams with the fire

department would not change. >> there are several things to have an enforceable five points of residency we knew the problems to the attention of the fire department. we could not make them do that. we brought a lot of media attention that is how it got change but there are better ways to bring people of color into the fire

department that just to sit down and reason with us we had to force them to do that. all of this cave from the oval to the society. but it was only though vulcan society. but they denied join us with those other actions. they wanted to be safe and denies it to stay as far away from us as they could but now they enjoy more benefits as they come on to a job at a higher percentage than blacks and women are coming on data much higher rate than they did absolutely nothing. >> as often happens.

you mentioned invade new what they had to do with mayor bloomberg. he would always brag about the fact that he was stated driven only paying attention to the numbers and he made up his mind but that 50 percent of the city was black and hispanic but there was the much lower number he did not get those apparently. at one point he said this is the craziest thing he has ever heard. what do you think about his efforts?

>> they have underestimated how we wanted to see these changes. they did not want to listen to wes i am the mayor and i am the commissioner. i think that was a big problem. and the eeoc filed department they refuse to come to the table to even talk about a. and they sound the same thing. or we bring a lawsuit.

that is how we end up with a lawsuit. >> he clearly underestimated you. >> what i a have heard as a reporter that there was afraid to do with? >> they had to understand it was unjust bloomberg but those who had written before him it was not only us with the illegal eggs a.m. but the commission it was not just us but everybody and it was obvious. if you look to see where

minorities were blacks are always at the bottom of the list after list after list. we'll be sued over the last two but the going all before that it was just wandered to% it is ridiculous it is unlikely a new. we knew the largest problem and everybody knew it. everybody knew that. >> one of the things that ginger does as a reporter from city hall is why? that she does not even know why they decided to go forward but looking at these statistics and the number and they still don't know why.

and coming close to an explanation he said he thinks bloomberg we have been pushing the fact they intentionally discriminated against to define that label and that administration that is part of the reason but if they come i'm up -- at them to explain the procedures and the flock. they just kept pushing to be indignant what we call wrong and strong. >> going through all the documents in 1989 with the

preparation and there was the fire department official who wrote the memo that said questions have been raised about the fairness san disparate impact on people of color and have we done anything to correct the test? writing to the agency the city of department wide services that create the test so somebody tried to raise the flag to say we have had complaints there are allegations it is the disparate impact is anybody looked into it? there was no answer in a response no record and normally that cut off rate is 70 anything above that is 70 that year for reasons still not made clear they said it the passing rates at 84.6 and even then got a

memo to say we're hurting minorities even more bad day are in the high eighties or low 90's so i can this compounds the problem but they did it anyway. >> let's talk a couple of minutes to be open with this incredible story as washington is starting out but some of the stuff that is in the book with said casual use of the edward or the staff that other people take i am curious what is it like now in the station house? >> i think people are more careful now about what they say especially they realize they could lose their jobs for throwing ethnic slurs

around so they are crafty year with their descriptions >> i take it is a microcosm of america. things are much more subtle today racism is still there it is just more subtle. >> i have to earn agree with that but the edward is still being used -- the edward -- the n word is subtle so when approached they said i said neighbor. [laughter] >> part of what sets the pace for all of these conditions talking about what it means to be a firefighter with the conditions that make it

conducive has that changed that are made that more comfortable? >> that is the only thing that will change things in eight -- where you come into my firehouse with three or four firefighters are black or hispanic you have a whole different atmosphere. it is just one it is a lot harder so that is that will change ultimately. steve lecter has said some flowback there are stories in the "new york post" the last few months about people do got in because of the lawsuit you should not be on the job and then allegedly fellow firefighters say they have or the stairs there is

one will and they go after birth again and again is this real? jedi the concern that they will not race into a fire? >> i think not everyone on the fire department is 100 percent. not everybody is 100 percent so although they do their job well some don't really know their job but it that is the label and that is the majority so to have people that don't hone in on their kraft but speaking that way it is weird to me because with the leaking of information so you hear this

stuff that is really precise about people's numbers and the scorer's and violating their time in training. but as you read these articles it is only with people of color and women. you cannot tell me they don't do things so now they talk about johnston who is day priority higher to look at what we're doing they don't know what his story is but did the post ever puts it an article?

>> jordan sullivan works to 19 and he saved a child out of a burning building he got a right to up in "the new york times" and has been recognized by agency said today he received a medal we hope to trade him and got him on the job. but he definitely worked very hard to be very diligent and precise and to assist fact he trained hard he received a medal today there are those who have gotten metals said done heroic acts but now to say that those prairie fires cannot do that, they have a lot more knowledge of the

world to know the responsibilities of having a job. >> key is is going to correct with his brother said. >> you should be applauded. with these types of issues sister came on the job you're not the only one but you should be proud of the work that you have done. [applause] and i have a question and you had to use such graf played bridge in a firehouse

[laughter] but ginger what got you interested in the fire department or this issue? what is your next project? >> retiring from writing press got to have a firefighter pension i will be working for a long time. i was assigned to cover the fire department that was my first print job five i did not know that french was going the way of the dodo bird that i would get a great education in there and i did. one of the first press conferences i was told to cover was the rubble to society -- people in society -- vulcan society i thought it was fascinating and i covered it over 10 years.

>> thank you so much for your service. just the other day we had a death in the family but thank you ought with the differences of what it was like before and after preferred do you propose to nine - - 9/11 22 those issues they had any way. >> sometimes i think they use 9/11 as an excuse with the image across the world that it is the shame that we say no to these things that that is just an excuse to get us to keep quiet.

>> i lost someone in 9/11 who would help to recruit. tell us about him. >> the person that i was the closest to was keith and he was of great guy and came to your training class's touche joined the of vulcan society and on the executive board. he was of great guy. his girlfriend was my wife's best friend. so it was very sad when he passed away. that was my biggest fear that somebody that i would help on to the job that would pass away bury him and a few others that died from 9/11 that i had at hand to get on the job so it was very difficult. >> just to piggyback on the

9/11 comint, i think during all this time to be also with the department with things going on now, people have the tendency to blame the victim but not the person who has done it in the first place. looked at the fire department the people deserve to have a quality of life. i just want to go to work and go home and have a vacation i don't want to come to work to be harassed or have a hostile environment i just want to work and go home and take care of myself. but you cannot blame the people who were victimized by society you have to look at the fire department for what it is to see it for what it is then you understand who is the victim

>> my name is jose's garcia i recently retired after 35 years. [applause] digest want to let everybody know exactly what the process was. initially we tried to integrate the fire department of new york city but everybody would talk by recruitment but back then 1999 i think the budget was $1 billion and they spend 1 million on recruitment so we knew where their heart was that but there was a dramatic change when they decided we are being looked at put money into recruitment to see what we can do. we had to individuals try for second-degree murder

that shot and killed a congressman but they were allowed we always hear about marriage, in that respect when you argue with some of these guys so how would you like individuals check and with second-degree. and then you find yourself in albany and anyone back then, it was destroyed the fate bin said judicial system. three men in a row is indicted for the corruption investigation? this is what we were dealing with three new was wrong but then you mentioned bloomberg he had the fourth biggest balances when he became mayor but when he left after the 12 years he was worth $35 billion.

so also keep in mind and read the book but once the door closes it is a different world. was the red door closes your eye on your own. i have seen many men come up to the fire department. [laughter] >> that is this bone dash jose society. >> bed to dovetail off the questions of 9/11 and before that with the different treatment in the fire house. i will note post 9/11 there was a lot of emotion and there were publications of the emotional outburst or drinking on the job and it

made the papers because there were so big they could not be hidden and there were no claims of threats to public safety at that time. the problem with their drinking was so bad the commissioner for the first time had is zero tolerance policy because before that if you had a drinking problem you handled in house your brothers would cover or major u.n. chair rehab a and did not get in trouble but after that he said for get it if you come forward we will send you to rehab but if you are caught you will lose your job and that made him very unpopular. but a problem with some drinking on the job there is a problem in 1986 with a first of a man found drunk

in uniform on duty in his firehouse and he did get in trouble with the recommendation he views his job the fire department suspended him and find him and the union stepped up to cover the fighting. so nothing to sell until it is forced. >> i would like to follow-up on that and the question of are we safe. or the ways that firefighters are selected. i ran a writing program and i do give up writing test when i hired people. i've learned not to drink people on the test that while it was important i had to make a cutoff to than look at other factors. that is for a writing program.

so it sounds to me like a system was created that is the altered so there are a lot of people may be who should not be there. that would be the case in my program if i only hired from the top but should i feel safe? do you feel there are too many people who got in through the of cronyism system view should not be there? or do they step up? >> we will see. to make go long answer shorts. [laughter] but you are right to.

a lot of the things are the ways that people were brought on or the nepotism people coming onto the job that should not have been there but with my family seven of us all of the job job, some of us, and to say you have to be taking the test were somebody else had no problem that was 150 years. so to pretend that everything was based on merit but now that is over with, that is just a joke. the personnel review board there are a couple of stories the person here ran it actually said in a deposition to the lawsuit that they encourage people

whose new the applicants to step forward to say i note that family and they are good people. that would help. >> yes. that it hiring process was incredible all the way through that is important but settle for a longtime the fire department was giving the test because they had 40,000 people applying for the 3,000 jobs they did that half to worry about recruitment they had to worry but it was netting more blacks and whites that was the attitude. >> it was an interesting way to keep records. how? >> they did it. [laughter] so even if you did score high with or got through the

written test than the background and the medical for whoever was in charge of personnel that day you could the under review and rent that was in the bette's guest they did not follow a researcher says guidelines or they did not keep notes they did not track the outcome and what did come out is that it was very common and encouraged for someone who knew a candidate to come forward to say he is a buddy and i will take care of him and the woman who testified said there was a lot of domestic violence a word he was drunk and it was a bar fight but these were happening but actually the

second part. but they criticized but they could go the find one case. to go to the lawyers after the fact to say where was all this proof? said no. they were written down so who knows what was really going on all that time? >> good evening. one of the excerpts that when she read that jumped out is the officer who said

these guys will never like you because you are too proud to be black. that comes down at me. when you think about the fire department went --. what you hear is the brotherhood, an off-duty day payout and do all these things together. it makes sense if you go into a dangerous situation that could create a bond. so what could you say about of brotherhood despite being a proud member of the vulcan society who represents this lawsuit which is kind of heated on the job?

>> in terms of brotherhood i have not felt much on this job. i am being honest. my specific company i do feel brotherhood but i never felt i was part of of brotherhood is overwhelmingly negative. it is rare there would say something supportive to be almost nonexistent this was done over the objections with the leaders of the fire department i am so glad this

book has ben written. especially how well it has been written. it could be used as a blueprint to have a lack of issues and toledo ohio to show what grassroots can accomplish to use that leverage of power. >> just one more thing before we leave. paul and mike have then at this fight for quite some of this time and this test was never validated and not only

was it not validated but the amount of money that's went out what they needed was unconscionable. so those types of things that our sons and daughters that we have to suffer through the stuff. our children should have the opportunity that is why i fought the battle it is sent over. with some of powers that be is still necessary that is

the problem. [applause] but to go back to the 9/11 comment i think the fire houses should be outraged. i don't understand why they met at the vulcan society. the city did not do justice. mine was probably not even and validated. so this is though i say it and they get mad at me but it definitely coming up from

a lawsuit are firefighters. but that was validated said even though we have done the job to prove that but it is technically the truth. >> they don't make this point because the stated goal is they're advocating for black people to get the jobs but the biggest benefactors there were are the white firefighters because by far they take the test of the biggest numbers. with looking at the most disenfranchised it was white firefighters coming out and large groups and a small percentage of them were getting on for a test that had no meaning if you did a good job on the s.a.t. test

if it was of mom from jamaica he got 92. no luck. >> i will ask one question of the audience. how many are for relate or currently in the fire department and have been affected by what the vulcan society has done? of lot. i was going to ask how you feel but may be as show of palin's will show you what you have accomplished. they key you for being here. [applause] >> and also for our

panelists. [applause] they will be up year-to-year talk to you to sign books. have a beautiful night. >> i plan on being the house is the history of the house of representatives he has been deployed of you've times a good friend from my

knowledge -- and 90 read a book when i first came to into office it is the stories of the house and things got pretty busy years i'm looking forward to catching up i still have most of it but just to understand the history of the house of representatives and the capital and to go to statutory all. those anecdotes and it is good to read of those mysteries were. >> it means caring about

yourself to be concerned with zero knife and your own well-being. add your own life. what about the people who pursue their own well-being and their own interest without victimizing others? what about a college student whose diligently spends his time studying rather than party? to become a champion. dedicated to ruth getting rich to fully reflect his own ideals.

when are these people being selfish? acting to improve their lives but not doing it at the expense of others but creating the value of the others and not seizing it from others. why then shouldn't this type of behavior for selfishness why can't we conceive to pursue an interest without victimizing others? why is that part of the essential definition? it does not belong. the political and intellectual leaders of today don't think of

selfishness in this way. they want us to think of selfishness even though there is day obvious distinction and with bernie madoff somebody who makes money or steals it means that the distinction must be blurred. to put everything in one fuzzy package deal. so that predator is committing a crime so acting within your own self-interest.

this leaves us with the choice to either be a person whose sacrifices himself to others by acting as altruistic play or to sacrifice others by acting selfishly. so we have the false choice of mother teresa to humbly sacrificing yourself is service to himself so those that pursuit of goals and values but not at the expense of others.

. .