. .

but they shared one thing. a passion for on the one case writing and the other case collecting but put them in the context of their lives if you would, please. >> guest: shakespeare was writing around the 16 hundreds. his life 20 years before, 20 years after during the reign of elizabeth and james i and he was a well-known playwright poet. he was also a businessman and a shareholder in the theater company in london. and and he's he is very well known for being a businessman. henry soldier was the chairman of the board of the company the largest corporation in the world and the most reviled corporation

as well during the gilded age. shakespeare wrote these plays after he died his friends decided to create a memorial volume and published 36 of the node node known 38 plays of shakespeare had written and they are connected across time and across the ocean and the book saved the play from obscurity and henry the chairman wanted to own every known copy of the first. >> host: there's something interesting a sacred term referring intuitive that way he was anything but complementary about those in the gilded age.

>> guest: they built these magnificent mansions and they have collections of art and they had had at the european a big european treasures that estate. henry was quite different than most in the gilded age that we know of jpmorgan and the like. he came from very modest means and worked his way up the rankings of the latter but he never built a mansion, he never owned a house until he retired. he was in a rental house in

oakland, lived a very modest life and kept secret his obsessive passion for collecting - >> host: he could have built a better house if he didn't spend so much on the manuscripts. >> guest: but he displayed some of the artwork at his home and most of the work that he collected but manuscripts musical scores and instruments three dogs and on and on anything related to shakespeare he looked at and studied and then when the house was full to the brim, he would take them down to the basement, wrap them up and ship the box to a warehouse. i looked at receipts for storage fees for 30 years for some of the rooms he rented. one by one he would fill up these warehouse rooms with treasures, make an inventory and

a note of which box within which room and over years of accumulated room after room in brooklyn and manhattan. >> host: there's a tv show called hoarders and i wouldn't race to the element of - >> guest: if you are a person obsessed with collecting recyclable bottles are contemporary newspapers or magazines and you stack them in your house to where you can't walk through your house, we might say you have a borderline personality or this interferes with your normal living henry acquired things on a scale that were valuable and interesting. you have a connection with the collector as well don't you you want to talk with james was once in a known author and a big

collector. >> guest: a bit of a collector is an understatement. you are being kind to him. part of my research was informed based on the fact that he's been collecting objects manuscripts since he was 10-years-old and he's amassed an enormous collection that i haven't seen before extent. james has had to put many of his objects into storage because there is no room for them. >> host: that you know of. >> guest: right. >> host: james is also the author of a number of books but particularly, one of my favorites manhunt for john wilkes booth after the lincoln assassination. but let's go back a little

further than that. can you talk a little bit what a folio is come the many members may not know what it is coming into the two men that you are too earlier. >> guest: which refers to the size of the book. 13 by eight approximately depending how it's been shaved down. >> guest: like a magazine size that would be closer to half the size. what made it interesting is it conveyed some gravitons prior to the first but that size has been reserved for political and religious tracks in the gravity.

certainly not plays that were not regarded as literature. they were regarded as amusement for the masses. the first was a memorial volume that john hemming put together as a tribute. he died in 1616. if percolated off six years after shakespeare's death. it wouldn't have been known to history had enough said. they saved them for prosperity.

many of the manuscripts possibly the only copies of the manuscripts have gone up in flames at the glen oaks figure. imagine what the world would have had if that hadn't happened. >> talk about how the fire came about in contemporary america recently. >> guest: they've had a history with fire but more on that a little bit later. the theater was like the other theaters in london tried to attract patrons and held 1500 people with enormous structure. they added special effects and one of the special effects might have the good idea of what he was a real cannon. >> guest: . they shot off a cannon upon the arrival of henry viii and some

of the lauding that was in the canon floated up to the roof and it caught fire and burned to the ground in two hours. several years later, but at this time the government had enough and they outlined until 1994 when the restoration was completed. and no cannons were being fired. >> guest: >> host: it required them to get permission which i used to practice once an altar creates something he or she owns the rights to that forever unless it is a work for hire and the

estate would then get that property value that shakespeare but shakespeare had either licensed or sold the works to other people. >> guest: it was long after this. so the way that the plays were paid for the company is bought them outright. the theater company would have paid for the plays and then they would have had the right to perform or to publish. if they have found to do that they hold them held them very closely. there was a single copy of someone in charge of the manuscripts because they feared other theater companies could get them and perform the plays and not paid any royalties, so they figured if we have the right we want to have the only copy that they are and we don't

want others performing the lead. >> host: i know from the movie shakespeare in love which contained some historical accuracy is a huge amount of rivalry between the players and the theatrical companies rising to the level but perhaps that was exaggerated in the film but we know that it was a little popular entertainment. >> guest: there was a little competition among the companies. by the end of the career he retires back and by that time the only theater companies left part of the reasons related to the puritans prohibiting the production of the plays. they didn't literally shut the theaters down but that's also demonstrated in shakespeare in love. either for the plague or later

the puritans would say they were an abomination that against god pretending to be something that you want and with men playing the part of women they were even more upset about that. that woman is a woman. yes, right. >> guest: >> host: i was also fascinated as a business journalist and i covered the graphic arts to learn about the blind printer fascinating how the first folio was constructed and went to 900 pages. talk little bit about that. >> guest: yes if we start at the end of the story. without many copies to compare it is difficult to draw the inference about how the book was printed so having many copies available to compare side-by-side helps you figure out how the coffee was printed.

the long end and short of it is that the book was printed from the inside out. you didn't print page one and page three. you printed them in little booklets and started at the middle and then use if it to type living from the inside out. this meant two things. the printer had to estimate how much would fit on the page so that you would be able to fix this little book with exactly. if you have too much room not so much a problem. you could virtually doublespaced the text. if you ran out of space you might have to excise a line from the speech in order to make the

text fit into - today if you are using microsoft word you would have justified. well, you couldn't do that. you have to handset type. >> host: on the books today via tarpaper copybooks but the paper in many of today's books in popular fiction it doesn't last very long. talk about the paper and actually we will talk a little bit more about the present-day collection of the folio but talk about if you would want is the paper made of them is in danger or will it be five years continues? >> guest: the answer the answer is yes. there's some - the paper that

was used for printing the first was high-quality paper from normandy france. that's where the best paper came from and that is what they used imprinting the first folio. and part of that was to convey the importance of the volume again to say this is something important and something special. something like the paperback book which would be at half the size would have been printed on lower quality paper. it would have been more brittle and more likely to disintegrate which is why they are much more rare. and they have survived with pretty good numbers. they suffered infestations, people.

but all things considered all things considered a pretty good number of them have survived. >> host: they were not doing this out of the goodness of his heart. they estimated it made sense to print than he had to sell them or someone had to sell them. how did they get into the stream of commerce? >> guest: they were sold mostly out of the printers shop. and all of the paper warehouses that have been around the cathedral said it is for what broadway is to theater in the united states, so it would have been the locus of the bookshops. so that was in part a geographic but in part planned by the crown

because the crown wanted to know what was being printed and what ideas were being disseminated so they would have been under the eye of the crown. >> host: what would it have cost at the time? >> guest: it would have cost account which was a pretty hefty sum of money. a quarter sized by contrast might have cost five or 6 pounds >> host: the first copy of the press is probably the same as the 10000 copy. that wasn't the case of the first. there were differences and variations because of the length or the actual construction of the book itself? >> guest: one is that corrections to the tech were made while printing was going on so you might be printing and the

printer comes over and pulls off the press and makes corrections to it has it reset to make the collections and misspellings for example sometimes they put the actor's name instead of the name of the character then it would be stacked with the other pages and then later collated into the copies and then the new pages that were printed off would have the correct divergence over every page there was a single proof sheet and some uncorrected pages and then some corrected versions if you correct that the 900 pages every copy is slightly different. >> host: so was he the one overseeing that where were the images very involved in that as well? >> guest: the work was

primarily before hand so they would have taken the sources available to them the already printed or published versions that have been available for the edited them an entity had acted in these plays. they had been friends with him a long time so they knew they could look at the ones that have been published and say that's not how it was and then edit to the version of the more commonly know and then the memorial recreations and this all would have been how they edited essentially these plays. once the manuscripts were transcribed it was probably not

so much isaac but his son who would have done the corrections. >> host: shakespeare to my surprise they didn't really become popular until sometime after his death. people enjoyed his work but it was 140 years until his popularity began to soar. what happened to the first ones first one for the marginalized or did people recognize that someday this would be a valuable book? >> guest: i don't know that the collectors are the actors were producers thought at the time some day people will recognize how great this is. in fact over the period of time we had english civil war and

then they prohibited the plays from being produced which meant there were no new plays being written and they were not being performed so it was quite sometime but some time but not until the restoration of the plays again come back to this page and by then the producers start to change the ending. >> host: i've had several movies made in hollywood, i know how that works. a particular actor owned a copy of the folio. he was a very well-known actor who edited the play himself producing them in london, for example r-romeo and j-juliett he produced that with happy endings are were sad endings.

a few of the plays he cut an act or two to keep it moving to keep it moving more quickly so by the time we get to 150 years after they are quite different than what we remembered and it's by going back to the first one that we have a good idea of how they would have been performed at the time shakespeare was still alive. >> host: this brings up an interesting point. i found fascinating is all of a sudden you see a copy of the third when opening up only one of which was attributed. where did the others come from?

>> guest: each of them got further and further away from the original text as they had edited the play so again they would have acted in these plays there are hundreds of mistakes introduced and then eventually the first filled out in nine years and they had at the plays that you referrer and if i could dig into my attic and say i got a manuscript and then 20 years posthumously published as the work and thought they could make a little extra money saying the it's better than the first. >> host: they must've had some

value for those that would want to have the whole panoply of. >> guest: most of the collectors wanted the hotspots, to good quality copy of one of each. he wanted every copy he could get his hands on good coffee bad copy was missing the plays, torn pages from insect board holes more or less the volume shipped for years. he wanted them all. >> host: according to my family genealogist i defended from the oxford is that the

correct way to pronounce it? the conspiracy theorists that feel they didn't write the play do not subscribe to that so i'm not going to hit you up for any royalties. talk about that because it because people do find it fascinating. >> guest: there is a group of people they believe wrote the plays to shakespeare and few things are important to know one is that in his lifetime nobody doubted - at 150 years before someone that i don't think that this man really wrote the play. there isn't a voluminous evidence of even his existence. there are no grammar school records that show that he went

to the grammar school. he didn't go to the university's. without the university education is one of the candidates. christopher marlowe is another, francis was the most popular and wrote a book is actually that francis had written these plays. she went to england supposedly to research. she did any research she observed the atmosphere and into doing the interviewing.

she had written the introduction and the buck and ended up in an insane asylum at the end of her life soap she had an interesting life on her own and that alone doesn't mean that her hypothesis is incorrect. however we have a lot of evidence that he lived in london and wrote plays. he acted in the plays. the english word tremendously accurate record keepers and they would have if they record but who had written the plays and shakespeare mentioned that the dozens of times so they would have known whose plays and the preface to the white devil.

we have a lot of information about connecting shakespeare to the play. >> host: i did have to point out to my cousin the floridian that edward died before the tempest henry viii and several others as well and he said he couldn't have hidden them under his banner. >> guest: he continued to have plays published years after he died. >> guest: very smart. >> guest: you mentioned back -

mac beth. from that we have records of about twice as many and by the time shakespeare had died only half of the plays had been published and were secure. but hemmings published the other half and arguably without that book they would have been lost to history there would have been no tomorrow and tomorrow. the tempest, no julius caesar, no cleopatra so some of the most important place we know from

shakespeare the high school would be studying if they were the unsung heroes of english literature that they say is in the extinction. >> guest: don't we have them to thank for the picture of shakespeare? >> guest: we do. there are two images of shakespeare. one she made out of plaster but that was commissioned after although it was seen by his family members who would have said that's not what he looked like if it had been a problem. he commissioned to make an image which would be the title page and by the way this is the first time the picture was on the title page in a prominent position. they would have provided some kind of a secondary source sketch or something that we don't know and then they could

have set a little more than a little less, whatever it was like a police sketch artist although they probably had to do that with the original source because it would be hard to erase. but at least they didn't know shakespeare would have seen the image and decide that's not what he looks like at all. >> host: we've been talking about the british isles. let's cross little bit. shakespeare and theater in general didn't catch on quite as much in colonial days until much later. i had a wonderful quote from your book about the increased matter who said this person who's been corrupted by stage plays are seldom and with much difficulty reading and so it took a little while for shakespeare to get some footing

in america. >> guest: with pics of a century for almost the same reason the plays would have disappeared in england and that is the puritans who had shut down the production of the plays in england were the ones who came to the colonies and they wouldn't allow them to be produced here either so it is about a century before shakespeare started even on the frontier. >> guest: tell us about the confluence of shakespeare and fulcher. when did he become interested and when did he really start to get an inkling that i need to possess this man's play? >> guest: i think it happened with many collectors over a period of time. he was setting the play at amherst college. he heard ralph waldo emerson deliver a lecture and then became interested and read his

lecture on shakespeare and thought okay this is with a closer study and four the rest of his life he read the play and it affected him personally. he thought shakespeare captured modern man and amazingly modern man is not that different in 1880 and he is in 400 years later i'm sorry, 400 years earlier so please inform him about love and life and jealousy and support one is he really liked the play. part number two is once he had a little bit of income in his pocket, he started to collect copies. the first one that he acquires - and that is hammered down at $107.50 and he has to pay for that overtime.

he would have his books and then reading fiction and an author that had been influenced and so forth at that point when he acquired his first, was he indeed a student or was he working at the plate? >> guest: he was already working but he was also to carry around copies of the play in his pocket and during his time on the streetcar going back and forth between manhattan he would be reading the shakespeare play. he and his wife emily also went to many shakespeare performances in new york so he enjoyed watching the plays and reading the plays and then eventually he encountered a shakespeare scholars once he was an established collector he would write back and forth and discuss the text in how the part was performed and how strong the leader in the scene was in near

madness or - >> host: so this was more than possessing. he was involved in the whole shakespearean world. for the man that saved many scraps of paper and thousands upon thousands of letters over the 40 and 50 years that he was writing we know very little about the very first acquisition. we know it's about 1981 from 82 83. >> host: people would want an

unmatched manuscript and we found a disparaging term software but certainly not there were agents and spies involved. talk about that if you could. >> guest: sure. the first one is exceptional in the collecting world in that a copy dismissing plays into pages is damaged and a number of ways missing its original title page and missing its cover and is in bad shape. it's still desirable and if you had that for a the missing pages would be interested in as a collector. the first is exceptional in that collectors - it doesn't matter the condition to price changes. they want copies no matter where they are and that makes it a little bit of a fetish object

although as i said before although he was incredibly inquisitive and wanted every one of these copies it wasn't just as a fetish object they actually did read the plays. >> host: in one of the many reviews in your book i can't tell you what publication it was the preferred to basically three men and a woman who would have to think them and then of course henry but his wife emily that we refer to them she was instrumental in the collection process, wasn't she? >> guest: she was. the review was in "the new york times". and again without then editing the plays, we wouldn't know half of the plays that we do today. emily was the unsung hero for two reasons. one if you are an obsessive collector and you are running

the world's largest corporation during the day and come home at night and even when you go on vacation you bring your inventory collection with you in case something comes up and you need to find out if you have a better copy it is helpful to have someone that shares the passion with you otherwise interferes in your life. and she shared his passion for shakespeare and she had written her master's thesis on the true text of shakespeare and she also participated on a dalia basis going through the catalogues aimed the catalogues aimed at making inventories of what was in their collections and suggesting what they should buy and they kept a diary of that as well and that made her an exceptional partner so he lucked out in this fight and was compatible with him on that.

at the time that he died at of the stock market had already crashed and the end comment had been cut by about 40% and had emily not been as generous with her own money. after his death the finances were not as generous as henry had expected they would be and without emily participating in and giving her money to the building in the lottery it wouldn't have opened. >> host: when they first got started in this, they were more devoted to the folio and the art of collecting and they made some mistakes and had some disappointments in fact didn't he try to talk rockefeller into

purchasing a huge body of work a library of work in the suggesting they then enter the public to make some money - into the publishing world to send little - so that'll pocket books which didn't work out. but talk about some of these how he got his feet. >> guest: that is the case of a man who was very talented in the financial brinksmanship but couldn't have scraped together the money to buy this whole collection. they've gone up for sale and he wrote a letter. we don't know if he actually sent this to rockefeller but he spoke about this saying you just end out the university of chicago. yale has a collection of the first folio. maybe the university of chicago would like to have a great collection and i would be willing to go through the collection and tell you what are the most valuable pieces to be produced and you can sell them

into the cost of acquiring the collection. so that didn't work. rockefeller didn't buy that. >> host: i-india went to the and it went to the competitor and he was a bit miffed about that. >> host: some of that collection finally did get to him so 1970s a financial panic and he suffers the loss of a tremendous collection of shakespeare to huntington and he says i can't get the best i'm just going to give it up altogether and he started selling off his collection as well until ultimately he did get some of that collection. >> host: one of the most thrilling accounts is of a particular manuscript and if i may quote it's been described as the single most valuable and desirable copy of the first in the world as a contemporary but

ended up in the collection of constants. because that isn't a name that you can make up. that acquisition had its true ups and downs. >> guest: he became aware of the existence of the copy complete with all of the original leads from one copy that hadn't been supplied from another copy. very tall, had a part of its original 17th century cover within a modern the modern cover that had been put on it and we knew who had owned it from the get-go so it was the only

presentation copy that we know of given type of printer. >> host: what does that copy refer to? >> guest: just that we know that either the author or the publisher gave a copy to a specific person and the two that we know of if you look at the end papers in the bucket has that presentation copy with the inscription with the printer and it and it would have gone to the library library at oxford which was mandated. so fulcher becomes aware of the copy because it was published in 1903 by in english is shakespeare scholar and then for four years he chases after the copy and find out how much does he want for this superb copy.

a lot of money. he says could i buy it over time, could i look at it on approval, that's a lot of money and by the time he's made up his mind and has been able to scrape together the financial wherewithal of the english man that owns the copy says i changed my mind. i would rather have the book to look at. but if you write to me once a year around christmas time asking if i changed my mind - he would come and ask me if i'm ready to sell my book or not and then at some point says while someone else has offered me some money for this and that information gets back and he says if you would be willing to offer me 10000 pounds which was an enormous record price for books at the time, and again he

had perhaps some financial difficulty getting all the money together at once and said can i pay for it over time and all had lost faith in the end. >> host: when you follow the story in your book your palms are sweaty to see now is not the time. >> guest: the idea was to have you go on the same right that henry david which is you don't know whether he's going to end up with a copy or not and it is suspenseful. i at least was rooting for him to ultimately get the copy. >> host: that brings up an interesting point. as i was reading the book i was thinking my initial reaction was

they're never be any backlash but there was and that was the manuscript you were referring to. >> host: it happens twice. there's a copy that is owned by the library and when they acquired the subsequent they decided to sell the first surplus so it's gone and years later they ask can you clarify this is the first folio so they look at the unique cover, which contained half at the chain would have gone through and would have been attached to so that somebody could have read the book but they would have to stand there and read it and this is unique to these copies that are at the library all bound by a man named william.

the short version of the story is they wanted to buy the copy back from the collector and the collector named a price of 2,000 pounds season where do i sign the check? owned by the copy i will take it right now. and meanwhile they were trying to raise money to buy it back for its own collection. and articles appeared in the newspaper and the times literary supplement and the notes the collecting world newspapers saying won't anybody have any of the money to buy this unique - oxford men are not putting up the money. cambridge men have even given money. where are you and in one of the newspapers a cartoon was published because they didn't know who it was. he was anonymous going through the book dealer and it was a

portrait of someone like moneybags from the game monopoly. so looking at the english treasures who is the millionaire and there was a great deal of backlash that they were being brought overseas and the second time that happened was following the acquisition of gainsborough come into the acquisition of the copy with uncle sam under one arm and the first folio under the second arm and looking over and thinking i would like to bring those back as well. they were not happy that they were coming and biting their cultural treasures and liberating books from the dusty

libraries and taking them back to the united states. >> host: our time is racing against belief it's gone so quickly. i do have other questions but i want to turn the tables just a bit. you have a lovely dedication to your mother and father who if i remember correctly enlisted to defend shakespeare's england. i find that very touching. let's talk about it if we could. i know that you have an economics degree. i think that he you were the provision were you not? one of my favorite writers talk about that and also how you came to write the book. >> guest: my father is english and joined the navy at 17, he and his brother.

that's where the dedication comes from. he took me to my first - dot storytelling came from frank and his mentor who was one of my teachers taught me shakespeare and literature. he was a kind essentials retailer and it didn't matter what it was about he could tell a great deal and taught us how to develop dramatic tension and how to tell a good tale. >> host: as i mentioned in my remarks in another review he calls it a page turner and it really is. notwithstanding being a former attorney working on a law review i appreciate footnotes and you are as meticulous as anything else but that doesn't affect the readability it is just a page

turner. it absolutely is. one thing i would like to talk about if it any viewers are familiar at all you mentioned us a little bit but how many did he have towards the end of his life he knew he wanted it to have a home so could you tell us a little bit about that? >> guest: henry and his wife emily were friends with the scholar at the university of pennsylvania and it was he that suggested you should build a library and not just hack these things away. he was asked for example how many copies you have or do you have a copy of this and he would say it's already in storage i can't get to it. dozens of librarians and scholars wrote to him and said you have this copy and he would

say sorry it's all packed away. the idea came to him by the turn-of-the-century you should build a library and make this available to scholars. >> host: did he have a catalog and everything he had? >> guest: mle catalogued all the books, she wrote handwritten index cards to what the publication was and the price and so on into those still exist and in partakers of started arriving at such great volumes he would buy paintings by the box full and it wasn't all catalogued. there are so many individual items they are still not all catalogued today.

>> guest: they considered building in new york city but with their relatively modest endowment they cannot afford real estate. somethings never change and emily had grown up in washington, d.c.. her father worked for the treasury and she was familiar with washington and on one of their train trips to west virginia for vacation they stopped by and they looked around at the property on capitol hill and they said this would be a good place i wonder how long it would cost to do that so the end of the story is they bought the property here and they were able to build with the money that they had. >> guest: it took a total of nine years to buy all of the townhomes between second and third by the time he finished acquiring all of the properties the congress made a decision to expand and they were going to

use eminent domain to take the property that henry had just acquired so he spent nine years acquiring so he enlisted the help of the library of congress and after all this is the president of standard oil writing a note saying are you going to take this property out? i won't won't build the library if you were going to condemn the property into the library of congress helped him deal with congress carving out the parcel that he purchased from the acquisition so the library of congress expansion building is behind. they managed to work it out. >> host: i would encourage the viewers to go there. i've been there many times and i bought a cookbook and hosted a banquet about 40 or 50 people and it was a great time.

we are almost out of time to have a question for you. you describe your self - how many first folio are there accounted for both at the library in the collection and elsewhere around the world? >> guest: there are 82 copies at the library. the next largest collection is in japan and that is 12. the next largest after that is the british library and that is five, so it isn't common for people to have a dozen or more copies. we know as of november last year we know of 244 copies of the 750 that we think were originally

printed. >> host: so out there somewhere there is a first folio for you? >> guest: that would be delightful. i could probably afford a first page. maybe i will. someone will lead me to the last debate could lost manuscripts. there are a few that we wrote about but don't have copies of. >> host: are things being discovered is that possible? >> guest: yes copies of the first - no manuscripts have been discovered. we do not have a single manuscript available but copies of the first folio have recently gone for 105 to $6.5 million. so many librarians look further into and to reinstate maybe i have one out there as well and in fact a french university recently discovered a copy last year discovered a copy and had

verified the december 244. >> guest: our time is up and i wish you luck. thank you. >> guest: thank you. >> that was after words booktv signature program with which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, public policymakers and others familiar with their material. the material. "after words" airs every weekend on the tv of 10 p.m. saturday 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch online. go booktv.org and click on "after words" in the series into topics list on the upper right side of the page. booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask embers of congress what they are reading this summer. >> guest: i'm reading an amazing book and i will read it

to you. he's a native from delaware who grew up in milton but after finishing law school he moved to the south where he led the call justice initiative. he is a powerful him a painful moving book about a whole series of individuals that he's represented over decades. he translated his experiences into a compelling talk and into presentations he's been a law school and association seminars all over the country and now he has distilled goes into this book that i found it one of the most moving books i've read my entire life and i highly recommend it to you. i'm senator chris coons and that is what i'm reading this summer. >> want to know what you are reading this summer. send us your answer is booktv or posted on the facebook page facebook.com/booktv. next on booktv, ann colter argues that immigration is the greatest issue facing the united

states today and contends america's immigration policy is deeply flawed. she is joined in conversation by the editor at large ben shapiro and would have commentary on the current presidential candidates. thanks so much for coming. it is wonderful to see you here with ann colter. sorry for the delay in timing. there is relocation here because of the size of the venue so we want to make sure that anybody that went over got a map and got over here and delete it or not there's a number of people that have done that so we are getting extra time. in the meantime you have to listen to me talk because they pay me for that and you don't. ..

>> >> if when somebody is matched by the left we immediately go end think they're the biggest person

-- the greatest person that ever lived. [laughter] which explains donald trump and sarah palin. she says good things but there is the outside support for her because she was so unfairly attacked then i think everybody agrees with so they would say we are with her because the media hates her so much as some spectacular but the real reason why people support donald trump is because he captures the narrative of the country right now when you watch soccer of their number of people saw it eyewashes announcement today. , it was very nice about his vision for the country and how he broke faith unions he delivered it as well as he

can and. he is not very fiery just even keel and it was impressive in that sense. just like donald trump is coherent with a linear structure but there's one problem with what he did. and to listen to hillary this morning she gave a speech it was all about her economic plan she dropped one line about scott walker what about rubio and what about bush. she said scott walker said something wants to stomp the union. and then suggested is mean-spirited. her speech was 40 minutes

long with all this stuff that people don't care about or under state but the only thing that was designed to do to elicit the emotional fear response for those of the left. donald trump hates is been examined latinos who cares about the confederate flag? and has a ben relevant for at least 50 years and before that 100 years. news bulletin. [laughter] the fact that this became a massive cause because of what the left has continued to do white guy shoots 90

but that is resist they say that is bad and there's tremendous outpouring of support everybody is unified and the left says we cannot have that because they realize if they get along with each other and the way they divide people and then to play people so instead debate with the confederate flag. after that he was a confederate flag so therefore they secretly people -- want to shoot black people. thank what -- what donald trump did as it is shaving

him to pretend he is not important what they should self -- do is to recognize what trump does and what he is so incredibly effective at it his brusque way that he says there is a villain to the story. we have to face down of the land good guy or a bad guy. and by doing that channels the anger we want what is best for the country and those of what what is worse for the country and because he said that he generates all lots of sympathy and the republicans don't have to agree on everything but they should recognize that power of what he is doing and narrative and pick up on that and use that to their best advantage. so we will be ready to start

in just a few minutes. thanks. [applause] if. [inaudible conversations] >> a big round of applause for ben shapiro. [applause] now leave is a breeding a nays orange county welcome to ann coulter. [applause] >> i have read the book a

and we have made a substantive talk about it. >> guest: very is usual for me. >> host: i know people have their own questions so obviously why don't i start with the question my co-host asked the other week. >> fifth earth -- to said that your title is though provocative. to say you have to let me come up with the title. [laughter] he is my favorite writer but basic economics?

snoring. [laughter] >> host: the reason why people are reacting to the book is because it is a catch-22 that the left refuses to your talk about the topic on tell if it is inflammatory then there won't stop yelling about it so how do we break through that? >> guest: this justin american people against the democratic party we would win if it was just americans against the media, we would win but the american people against the democrats have businesses and republicans. just to get this talk about it is nearly impossible and people don't realize how much it sets the agenda of what you think about. we could go to a bar right now to ask people what is your position in ferguson or

gave marriage or global warming? i guess you in california have thought about it. [laughter] it is interesting how much the media determines and though you may not choose any item off the menu apparently called him a clown a few years ago i am so happy to see him in the race because he has changed the agenda. we're talking about immigration they are lying but that is better than and not all. >> host: obviously donald trump has a jump in the couple's bed you don't back-and-forth president. >> guest: i totally do. [applause] he has been advanced copy of

my book and obviously read that and he said that in a private meeting friday night and was very generous and said his sister always tells him you have written more books then you have read. [laughter] up crowd about this side he said i have read "adios, america" editing q. should i think i want people to read my book by one of the two authors to rights her own books and one of the of the authors of researches her own books and a bit shorter than that looks. it is spun the chapters are short and to the end there even shorter 120 pages of footnotes and you can totally read the book so please read the book. [applause] >> host: it is written in a language even democrats can understand. i see this as a hard sell for even republican

conservatives tour told by sis or russia or taxation but why it immigration and? >> and it feels like we are overwhelmed with wave after wave of loss with obamacare of held twice by the supreme court obama and withdraws from iraq and veracious supporter i cannot believe obama the cubs a way to give away our victory i hate to more for that than obamacare [applause] with is all a result of teddy kennedy immigration act. i don't want to hear weeping

about your grandfather's. but he could not have been elected without the post 1970 immigrants without the ofs - - 65 immigration act romney would have won a bigger victory against a bought the van reagan against carter i am sure you were surprised 2:00 a.m. i thought he would win that. get used to saying that a lot more. how do we get obamacare? the al franken was the 51st vote. how did he win? he cheated but he would not have been within shouting distance but for 100,000 somalis now living in minnesota that was instructed you must also for al franken.

without obama as president we would not have justice so my your or justice taken on the supreme court that did not have to have been so with every think is the most important issue it is not the read into lou democrats they have gone too far with the hysteria taking down confederate soldiers and changing the name of the jefferson monument and the fake rape case is that is and i am voting republican hellfire will rain down on the democrats. that may happen but they will be outvoted by other voters debtor foreign that the democrats have brought in and that is only a the political aspect because i assume this audience cares about that political aspect especially if you are a

republican to bring those that both eight / two for the democrats we are bringing in most of what my book covers in order to make it short and very readable. i cut to madrid pages before we went to press but i thought it was important to keep in that game rape and child rape and incest and rape and hatpins glass and america is the peasant culture closest to us but that is not the only one. these are common behavior's as are driving a truck and dropping of crack on the ground. it is changing our culture in the ways the rich don't experience it is not coming to knob hill or newport beach or park avenue they just get the cheap maids but americans bear the cost with taxes, schools overburdened

overburdened, and then african-americans are as i recently had then instructed to say african-american because now it is american and black. -- american blacks. i am not talking someone who has a canyon father. have you seen that black teenage unemployment rate? we have an obligation to our fellow americans or fellow hispanic americans they want the cheap labor they act like they're the ones

speaking for the of made. the or are not speaking for lupe she wants her raised -- her wage raise. lupe wanted to live in america i would like to live in america but delete wants to live then brazil with the rich upper crust and the rest are their servants. end with cheap labor you see a massive increase seven crime -- income inequality you are in california which state has the least income inequality? utah. the most monochromatic. liberals talk about the working class to raise the minimum wage stop dumping

low-wage workers said it will raise through the laws of supply and demand like new zealand and australia. >> host: there is a lot there obviously. [laughter] do you want to take the phobia question first? >> guest: david brooks is the only audience are the people who actually hired him. he suggested he was using textbooks seen a phobia with that other rhetoric to talk about different cultures that would be xenophobia. talking a pal people who have no right to do be here i am not afraid of them i think they're wrecking the

country but it is for the people already here. the race is the question that i talk about of lot in my book, and no, no, no the reason they're so sensitive to raise is slavery and jim crow. but one day out of the blue welleszes integration and don't discriminate against black people. we had to teach 100 years the democrats not to do that but that is all about it is not about those who have set foot in the country but to say you are brown but jesse jackson used to announce

those coming across. and the wetbacks to drive down the wages but today to get affirmative action to apply to college for government business loans i should start by saying and i have said this before when it comes to immigration it is the first lion the truth is always the truth but the light is always a lie in its way yourself to look at the steady but that is based on how many small-business loans they get from the federal government. they get affirmative action

for that. you are chasing your tail. but as for the xenophobia he and the mess -- the rest of the manhattan the elite refusing to recognize is perhaps to be a restriction at some point. there would all like to live here to collect welfare but we're not taking them also liberals are cutting them off as soon as every person they know the may a nanny

once that is taking care of sorry to not get to come. so help those that are living here now. [applause] >> talk about how romney would have had the overwhelming victory without the inundation from the '65 act but michael takes the opposite perspective that we had this debate to do comprehensive immigration reform and the softer on of border with the pathway to citizenship because if we don't because center natural growth what we do in bed 20 or 30 years to win elections

that historically those that vote republican decrease. >> host: . >> guest: i don't know how we could be any softer on the border and as we fly them indirectly. i'm sorry obama is to bring that we are flying than in so they don't have to go through the arduous journey through mexico and handed them a voter registration card. and is the case right now 71 percent of hispanics though it did republican mitt romney still would have lost a 4 percent whites would have voted he would have won. but the point with the demographics as they were when he had a huge come-from-behind victory and

to go back with the mass immigration of low-skilled workers and 30 percent of hispanics and even those voting for the democrat was proposition 187. pete wilson got 87 percent for the average among congressional republicans was only 8% so there is sure path to victory republicans but then shut it down because then we are fiddling on the titanic they don't care about amnesty they are in and of all the issues the idea hispanic unity that is believed exclusively by a

white liberals say and the rnc apparently talked to your maids' once in awhile. of the dominican republic of blacks where the mexicans there is no unity. the reason post 70 have been voting overwhelmingly for the democrats they are poor if indeed the government services to the people's revolutionary party the backs ago ruled 71 years. tell a the symbol. but that is what they do. mcdevitt appears morgan if you want to see how the immigrants would vote. by definition any immigrant to america makes america

more status and less free is day definition matter. so let kapor vermont a but judge yorkers moved up their now they have bernie sanders. oh lots maybe they should build a fence around new york. [laughter] >> so those who want to vote like an american we don't need 60 years to see what they will do they vote republican and rights away most of them are bringing their politics with them and they will get more benefits that is why they are voting for democrats that means

having a border. >> than this is fascinating and imf on this budget that complete lack of government statistics coming to illegal immigrants and crime. and has you detail it is impossible to find a real government statistic. >> one of the advantages of doing my own research and had a great idea for a book and i have written a couple of chapters then i get to the immigration is in chapter i looked up obvious facts of the immigrants are in prison? tune weeks of looking and i am a fanatical researcher department of justice and the bureau of prisons which has to be pretty good because they have to keep the differing gaming's separated so they really need to know. i look in the eddy are times

everybody is arguing about wild guesses about the government that refuses to tell us and as a government report the truth is always the same but the allies are lies in their own ways. did you read the report to say hallelujah it is titled how the immigrants are in prison and then you read the report but hispanics are counted as white. and then a gao they have to ask to count and tell us because the department of justice did not have its the bureau of prisons does not have it. counting illegal and legal immigrants and illegal

immigrants for requested reimbursement. only those that i've requested reimbursement with one felony or two of misdemeanors. i think we have a of a right to know they q donald trump with the shooting in san francisco how many are there? incidentally the spent the weekend and a lot of money looking up these reports. liberals keep aggressively asserting on tv that studies show a rigorous commit less crime. i know that is not true but i don't know how they are lying so i wanted to know and i tried to get the

report. first of all, you should be suspicious the argument you are breaking is your city has a lot of immigrants and items deal lot of crime. that is not a steady. that is not science is retarded. [laughter] and geraldo made that argument with me and he is not a stupid man. the fact was not be good but i tried looking for the studies sometimes you get a reference to the name of researcher that i try to see with you get a professor editors out first generation commits far less crime but to track down the study they are hidden behind a table all. i already pay for 1 billion difference services so first i wasted two hours thinking you are not going to make me

pay $50 but yes. i have to so i could skate down to see the light that i will tell you all about in my column this week that they are not looking at americans they're looking at criminal americans. there are different ways to do this. will my study showed. first generation immigrants are far less crime than americans are native-born. and that base population and which she admits that the bass study began 45 percent black 33 percent hispanic and 15 percent white.

that is not a cross-section of america is a cross section of the criminal population and. so to pick us city atlanta on take detroit. what? [laughter] but that black underclass has a very high crime rates i am thinking we want immigrants to have not just the black cry rape but the norwegian cry rate. [laughter] is all lies. why are any criminals coming in? we have our own criminals. we don't need more. [applause] so any discussion is a

government policy like any other than if you bring in one child molester or water drunk driver for one person with government services or english language lessons they can be paid for by the taxpayers. that isn't helping the people who are already here. and working so hard to support their families with there $8 an ounce lower salary home is admirable but how does that help america? it doesn't use schools and services in the housing aid and in the grants are sending $20 billion back to mexico every year carlos

makes money off of immigration especially illegal immigration to the united states $20 million you will never be told about a soft data the american economy never used to buy an american product or to hire an american worker to purchase an american and house. to be socked gotta of the economy. to the low-wage immigrants that is why they can take those low wage jobs then send them back to his grandmother who then buys carlos slim products the owns 40% of the companies on the stock exchange.

>> host: for those you don't know and i did not know until i read your book book, but tell the story of immigration and. and is an easy thing to buy yen to. with parents sang great grandparents. even my illegal immigration needs to be curtailed. >> it helps the country. >> it used to be an example pre-70 as they would require better than as. that is what we want.

to be more educated, more houses is an 30% went home. that fact alone could not make it and went home. looking now across the world skimming the cream from the rest of the world. partially the 1965 act cave at the same time when america was transformed but that will change their a series of complicated rules as differ from ours as possible and as poor as possible but nobody goes home. why would they? go on welfare. >> boating eight / two for the democrats.

>> what shed three to about the h1-b visa so explained the problem with the process >> yes. a lot of republicans get stuck on this issue so those who'd give a shot caller white shot in handy because they keep talking about illegal immigration i talk about amnesty. so it does not distinguish to engaging in massive amounts of human smuggling or child rape to not

understand private property they are all legal immigrants boating and to go back to fight with isis is the goal. we're talking about the h1-b visa in particular that there is a soft spot for because we are obliged to that there is such a high iq with gigantic brains the of the time i mentioned it in my book for those in one bed cheap labor. that they have such a high iq is standing. they are used in the worst case to bring in and a concubine told year-old girls from their parents for sex brought them in on the h1-b visa one died. but in 2001 and to follow it

very closely. i call up my friends many also followed closely to say did you hear about the case is in san francisco? kreme 12 year-old girls he bought for sex and he also brought in the busboys with restaurants and real estate property that was not covered by this emphasis go chronicled the police budget under the rug but it was broken by a high school journalism class that had not yet attended columbia journalism school and did not know. [laughter] it is against this to report the facts that are not pleasant about the bottle immigrants. there is one category how it is a fraud other category is

even those in the computer programming but unfortunately americans to do the same work but it is tied to a particular employer but if he were four marks a preferred you cannot leave without risk losing your visa. you are tied to an employer. it is known as indentured servitude that this country abolished 100 years ago now the rich are bringing get back. we'll tell the students to focus in the stem field but the step graduates have of them are not employed in the stem field and the salaries have not gone up over us a

decade because bill gates and mark zuckerberg are bringing in the computer programmers that type away in their cubbyhole been go home to go to sleep. is a scam. >> host: on the free trade side if you don't do that so what is the counter to the free trade argument? but those that relocate? >> they could but i don't think they would. we will see. the reason i even do to what the -- wanted to look with the stars of silicon valley

but the reason i even if new to look because one of my friends who runs a company was thinking of relocating a call center to india and that it has a flats the bell curve what is the average indian iq? and as that's trade issue it is not worth the trouble to have them over there but since that happens i don't know that is another issue. but i knew of their kids are not getting better job i don't have a strong position that is not my thing. i am suspicious the same

people that were so obsessed with their mind to be over the last 20 years for immigration that we need the trade deals like nasa so i never thought being a conservative was to reassure carpsucker bird makes more money -- mark zuckerberg. >> host: based data is so much any total evidence is because it does not exist but for the first two days the shooter was referred to only by his name of texas so talk about how they treat the stories when they see them with the san francisco case it was generally mentioned in the articles about texas they he was

already deported for time said with my is sensitive research generally found two other cases those that killed the american was an illegal immigrant so the headline may have been a texas man. the other was the porkies director and then choose were straight into the lake to kill them immediately the illegal alien and the passenger was fined. they said it was an illegal alien i evening of my friends to say why? maybe they consider that separate -- such a represent -- reprehensible part but

that while is an actress said the west village apartment that was is it murdered by the illegal alien the only thing that separates those cases that they all have been aware of liberals might be. i go back to my point that the rich are perfectly willing to pay that cost that is because they don't pay the cost they cover to pave the house then go back to fill up the schools and hospitals to rape your kids. >> host: one of the issues that you take on with the media bias is the g.o.p. on this issue why is it - -

wire the incapable to take of this issue? >> i used to dig it was cowardice now it is pure stupidity. [applause] >> just to get back but the anecdotal examples are not to prove the point but chapter seven you will see rigid through tears of frustration and rage looking for basic crime facts. i do have some pretty good facts that are not anecdotal like u.s. marshal most wanted list. take a look at that. did the eric state prison used to counter what they really do have to know they may not published but they do know those terrific run dash a different ethnic groups so i have a list of where people are from in the

new york prison and i think that is pretty devastating for gore years the anecdote not to prove the point but to attack the media. it is mind-boggling. sprinkled throughout the book that would be the mainstream media article and my comments throughout and were completely convinced some the farm boy up in fresno who gained weight belt buckle 40 year-old girls and only when you read their transcription three years later oh my gosh. why didn't you mention that? it was never mentioned in "the new york times". never, never. how much it spent all of the rapes that did not have been like said duke lacrosse team ordered ferguson.

but its actual cases said he and his gang rape incest or child rape going on in american communities i see no reason the media will not tell us. the mexican gang rape when a the most hideous i have ever heard who would follow not only the news but crime and they did not know about this case it started before radiate planted administration and the most shocking to do wakeful nexis search never was illegal immigrants or mexicans ever mentioned in relation to the game rapist this is a large number of death penalty

cases in texas for about half a century. there was one article but never did day manchin them and tell day use the fact that leave rapist tried to come from the death penalty that is the first time ted years later in the full description was in a texas case. that is how you describe one of the most brutal gang rapes i ever read about. it isn't too proof and the fact that trump has struck

such a chord, do any of them have i is? don't they want to win? in this apparently is a popular topic. i gave a speech in ontario california last week. they are nice people like you and some of us you that may be a ted cruz supporter as scott walker announced today we will chaffed. [laughter] but i mentioned my fondness for donald trott in the room exploded. the it was 100% for trumpet. [applause] and i cannot say i believe he will be the nominee for those who follow my work you space constantly say they don't get distracted by somebody who has not been a governor or a senator but i don't know.

if none of these republicans pick up part this, it is wide open. by secret plan comes down to the last chapter the one year with a 20 year fantastic record on immigration is mitt romney and i was very disappointed when he criticized donald trump might new hero. [laughter] >> when he comes in on a hang glider simic i unthinking people will see the debate to think mitt romney was the best may ever had. maybe to take a job as vice president. if it is jeb bush or marco rubio not threatening the you have to vote for hillary over those two because they're sole objective to open the border to pass

amnesty at least with hillary she wants to socialize any other industry she was to lose wars abroad and wants to take your children the way to make abortion mandatory. gay marriage mandatory perhaps so there are a lot of items on her agenda but the other too single-minded the focus to open the border to pass amnesty. if trump is not the nominee then it is jab or rubio i hope he does run so i can make it clear what my vote is about. >> host: in 2014 people voted about this topic and it was the deciding topic and i heard a prominent member of the editorial team assure an entire room at least twice this size of this is not even an issue in the election and the question is what should they

do our god forbid hillary clinton wins or somebody who doesn't care about this issue but why should they do right now that they did not do at the beginning of the year? >> they should not fund it. there is that. but quickly take the point what was that about? is a popular sedating democratic senator and then a field of candidates that i sure was very popular with a businessman who thinks amnesty is a fine idea and then there is the famous

election taking of a member of the of leadership and also scott brown in massachusetts ranking the race in level of difficulty who has to do of a triple layer over of the shallow end scott brown did incredibly well to raise that amnesty issue it is not popular with the most of the people who control the media. quinn said the funding of the amnesty came up they did try to fight it. but unless you're reading right bart you did not know about it. there was no immediate attention. but now '02 portraying us on

trade is the back door amnesty with the free movement of people. tsa there are so many but the republicans have a winning issue. in the rule is there are no good democrats there are a fair number of republicans said we need to push them and elevate them to be more like them. and we should also take out one and stop being stupid we only need to take out one. may we john boehner. just one. [applause]

and again if you follow my work and said don't go for the tea party candidate because bad things happen when democrats controlled congress but that is why it was fantastic the they have not run for anything before. in to challenge a bad republican. end with a plan to encourage the other. >> host: every republican at this point what happens if we cannot do anything? it feels like on every front to the president can do it every once. en then to advocate whenever

authorities so that is the question i just feel that most are hunkered down but then to follow pete wilson in 1994. and americans have shut down three embassy in the last decade. not because it lez alerted but somehow they find out there doing it again. and now have shut down the congressional door. you may have to shut down then newspapers which

borders or the television switchboard to make it clear this is what we want to hear about. is the end of the republican party nationally. maybe a few seats in montana or idaho but the whole country will be california without the beautiful beaches or attractive people it will be awful. [laughter] and to begin such up fundamental way it will have been slowly been it will have did one day election after election. funny i thought we would with that but it mexico has the advantage of living next to the wealthiest country

know. we will be brazil with the very, very pour 80 or 90% is heartbreaking not only the freest country that ever existed but what sets america apart a and in california was our enorm burris and prosperous middle class. enormous. . .