>> host: we want to introduce you to the northwestern professor john marquez author of "black-brown solidarity". what was your goal of what we trying to accomplish with your book?

>> guest: there was a series of goals that i tried to accomplish. the book begins my interest begins around 2002 there was an incident of police brutality in my home town. a 45 year-old mexican immigrant was beaten and choked to death by four white police officers it was caught on videotape. the grand jury was convened to decide whether or not charges would be pressed and then they decided not to the video tape revealed it was of a clear act of police oppression the medical examiner's report that was released also ruled the death a homicide by a asphyxiation am blunt impact trauma.

as a result of the ruling by the grand jury coming an activist awakening inspired in my home community. i was interested for a variety of reasons but it was the first monumental time that people of color specifically african-american and latino people organize themselves to protest against the judicial system and police. second, it involved a coalition of african-americans spearheaded largely by african american leadership. and i found this significant that i will cover but the third thing that i found interesting was the strong role that women played to establish the coalition and to maintain a voice a protest in the community when in fact, what they were

organizing against disproportionately affected boys and men of color black and brown boys and i found that to be interesting to write about gender dynamics. >> host: who is luis? >> the victim from mexico that lost his life and death that was for them to organize to vocalize about the injustice. a blue-collar suburb focused around the oil refining industry and it is home to the exxon mobil refinery that was the largest of its kind in the world so it does have a complex history of industrial boom town type of

history as well. african-americans and latinos have grown over the years in relationship to the expanding oil industry as u.s. interest to oil reserves have grown as a way to process the quayle -- whale. and as they would move to seasonal contract labor or other minority groups and they were largely responsible for the population that is happening there. >> host: has there been tension between african-americans and latinos? >> guest: absolutely. is in every space where they

coexist across the nation. what to wanted to capture with the title "black-brown solidarity" that solidarity with regard to political solidarity is not something that you accomplish as a milestone or a condition it is with everyday experiences of the justice system and social relations in our community there is not a monolithic solidarity within the black or brown population across as too populations either but it would shed of light on the complexity that they relate to one another's experience and the reason they come together. i was bothered by the social movement historians to look

into the archives of social organization or activism and able to pinpoint if they did not get along or failed to active solidarity. everything they say is true there has been tension that having come from one of these communities to understand that dynamic nature and respond i knew there was a much more complicated story so rather than archives and oral history i tried to read the writing on the wall to listen to expressive cultures to see the history for subjectivity of when they came together the struggle of luis was just one of many the found in the

youth gang culture and hip-hop music the individual mediums that i mentioned as well. so to map out the terrain that gave attention to what constituted "black-brown solidarity". >> host: so what was the commonality that brought the two groups together generally? >> of violence largely with with an awareness of state sanctioned racial violence. what i try to do with the book is to validate the struggle at a time when it was vilified to create a division rather than raise the awareness of a condition so that history component by a trace back that moment of police brutality to a much

more extensive history that was largely state sanctioned and then when the community began to take shape so the violence was profound that latinos have grown in number over time may have been subjected to that same norms of the old south that once targeted african-americans exclusively but now it is also latinos in a comic fashion. with a history of lynching to the advent of police brutality to map out that barbaric continue on that violent oppression. >> host: back to the case, what did the two groups do to combat what they saw as injustice?

>> the question should be what have they been doing? i tried to validate the history of resistance that is often unseen but the activist awakening in 2002 african-american saw that as an opportunity to raise awareness about the condition they have been suffering from for quite some time. but the fact they used the plight of the mexican immigrant to galvanize what they saw as that at the - - epic poet of protest was telling with the complexities with regards to how they understand. a coalition was formed formed, african-american leaders in the community and i fell sympathetic to the

cause as well because my scholarly evolution began and that activist oriented role in that very community. it was something i felt compelled to write about that but using that hip-hop culture views the similar critiques with regard to black and brown used in particular to shed a critical light on these issues of violence and understanding. >> host: in your book "black-brown solidarity" you describe yourself as marginal the chicano. what does that mean why is that important? >> this is one of the many ways i try to pay critical attention to that community.

it has are the largest latino populations in the country but yet it did not begin to grow until after the 70 - - the 1970's having been born and raised in that region with african-american history was vitally important to understand the issues of white supremacy and colonialism and i learned how to critique black nationalism was the language to begin my career as an activist as well. but that particular history relevant to the south was influential with how i understand my place in the world as a man of color but out of college i began to understand there was an equal complex history with

the mexican americans so i learned about it through school and course is i would take the mind standing of black power and black politics from when i was five years old i can remember thinking about these things so chicano came later in my life. but that is an experience from growing up in the old south. >> host: is there an issue between whites and african-americans and latin americans? >> guest: in the split among all of those i think last dynamics are important to pay attention to as well as they tried to do distance themselves across the united states. ic the solidarity between

with -- working-class and bin said dedication to the confederacy and it does drop of wine with this conglomeration of black and brown to just yesterday with the footage but i have been fortunate the book that i published was quite prophetic and the small to understand what happened in ferguson, missouri or other places like baltimore as well for people reaching additional frustration. to engage in a defiant protest but the fact that

they vilified is creating a problem coming at a time that we are indoctrinated to use think they are problems of the past that we have been able to reform our society and therefore people protesting our irrational or fall a title it is one of my missions to validate to let people know not only are those assessments and accurate but it also to have a far more understanding you don't have to survive those conditions on a day to day basis. >> host: you have mentioned your scholarly aptitude developed early. was there a galvanizing moment? >> guest: i think there was a the series but we now

marceau's knew what you see with their protest movement from ferguson zero were baltimore is reaching a threshold and not to so it isn't any one particular case. there are some personal stories in the book with family members of mine and in particular my father. to talk but racial profiling in particular. it was emblematic to think

of the votes of 2002 by trying to lay out the series of these cataclysmic moments as a way to offer a tool to understand is okay to express ourselves. if we know ourselves to survive but if we don't advocate that we cannot participate with their own oppression. >> host: you also write women played a role in this coalition. >> it is important because women of color in particular

so i wanted to participate with that dialogue by shedding a critical light that african-american women and latinos many i have known my whole life the role that they played and the sacrifices that they made as well and give them credit for that and also the struggles beyond the united states you see it with the struggle of the missing them and playing an important role there. and to protest against police brutality for those who have been organizing and spearheading these initiatives and to speak

about these things with part of that dynamic to be here with you today to do the important role of organizing in our community. >> host: what was sure path to northwestern? >> i am african-american studies department now and my past began and activism in the was interested in colleges and universities with scholarly dialogue to become a better activist to have the tools to organize against these conditions not only houston but here in chicago of is very much involved with the anti-back at my role hear it with northwestern nitride them in

terms of them to understand the connection between the university and the community the studies are vitally important to maintain those bridges. in a net show that is how i got to where i am today. >> host: what is the purpose of the ethnic studies programs? >> why are they necessary? >> they are necessary because they offer a different kind of critique than with traditional disciplinary methods and to come from of blacks stayed perspective to say if we mapped out what constitutes political solidarity we cannot just will kick in the archives to find that information that we have to

blend all data and factual matters together so it is more complex reading because largely what we u.s. dollars , we invoke day paris said it relationship with the community to study and analyze and it is so will set up and how to combat the persian. so that cannot be denigrated to understand that complexity for what they need to do with their lives. but that is one of the many important tools that they play in the university. >> host: talking with northwestern professor john

marquez. "black-brown solidarity" is the book. thanks for being on booktv. >> guest: thanks for having me.

when we go back to look at this series of the events where we saw a possibility that people did not imagine we were putting pieces together to develop human intelligence that proved so crucial later it was high praise for a man i respect it is unusual to have the city and chief to ride a foreword to anything while they're still serving. so i was humbled by the comments to now the senate armed services staff it is interesting we're both here now but at the time there was the sense that we might be able to get onto his trail if we all work together maybe somebody

could get him. i was in iraq in the spring 2003. i got there a little later than and the division because the original plan was to go through turkey to attack republican guard elements as the 101st airborne as they did operations then we would hit the objectives the republican guard, that was always the plan the when the turkish parliament said you cannot come through turkey it was all rerouted. i joined may 2003 the first battalion 22nd infantry in the word given orders to occupy the city of tikrit.

that is what put us even in the hunt for said tom -- saddam. roughly 1,000 soldiers undermine command with a lot of the infantry squads and that also had a tank company and engineers and utilities very powerful and originally focused to fight saddam army then we adapted to fighting insurgents and a fairly sizable city that was very much not in favor of us being there. very pro saddam like other parts of the country. but that was not the case in

tikrit. >> host: you talk about human intelligence. who are these two people? >> to a businessman that were very savvy. i am often asked who helped to figure saddam in was any reward given? >> there wasn't because ultimately the man who fingered him was named muhammed but that to people who put us on to the family network they had suffered greatly under saddam as property was seized. they were instrumental to give us the information.

it was one of those moments where in the may or june time frame and one of those times i didn't have time to fool with them i cannot check on them. they had information at the outpost they wanted to give vent without giving it to anyone unless it was me. great. here we go. i knew the dismiss them not right that something said what if? for the next two and a half hours they laid out in great detail on a piece of butcher paper this elaborate network of families and i thought this is the most elaborate why i have ever heard for their past to be something to this and they were instrumental to intelligence

that won nearly and with the saddam photo albums or family items a lot of different things. these to iraqi businessmen were instrumental to put us on that path. >> host: when is the first time you ever saw saddam hussein? >> not until the night he was captured. i think one of the things that people don't realize, you may have seen him but did not realize it.

but he was not far from this form on the other bank of the tigris river you could literally stand on one bank is the the other farm that was visible to one another. he did not go very far. with a very humbly so he did not circulate there were rumors he was in the area but early on we worked hand in hand with a number of organizations or special operation forces in the area that time initially the first team was focused specific prewar targeting of key leaders. but then they left toward the end of may and the new

team that came in we worked very closely together on a lot of trades and intel per cry basically said my task force is yours. we will help because i had limited resources but we had great reach and priorities. we knew it would have to be a cooperative effort. the same thing. very focused. even the general during that time told many he fell saddam was likely in the area from a flood of reports so of any unit would but a lot of people learn.

>> bill whole is not very big it is like crawling under us six ft. folding table in dimension to set under that. i am not the big guy but i had to strip off my a year to make the clearance of the entrance for it was square with brickwork and was very ingenious with us to our phone that had a recess of and the top for soymeal and it actually gave equal to house the ground would feel when you would step on it. it would form like a cork on top of the black coal. when it was covered up with earth and a flat map on top you could walk across and never know it was there.

it had a carpet and a fan and no bite. he didn't live there it was just a place to hide he lived in the hut above that. >> where? >> the raid that started the series of events, we had gotten very close one of the special operations teams that we ultimately worked with, it was the different team and then a different unit that had rotated in the october timeframe. same relationship but we are doing a number of simultaneous trades. one thing we've learned is because of the intermarriage and the large families with

multiple wives. you may have fed it is the possibility and much like hitting welcome all. so once we learn the network we would identify many of these locations then to half a dozen or eight simultaneously there was a series of raids we could do in the first week of december that very successful in that regard. december 4th we did one with john steen and others to get even closer on the trail to mohammad. the last public appearance of saddam april 2003 he shows up in a than on a

square to be the benevolent dictator to put his arm out the die driving him and and look at the footage, that is muhammed. we now know he was related to saddam wife and a virtual unknown but then became the most crucial guide and the family was one of the key families wrote organizing the resistance that often was not understood as well. the resistance, many people misinterpreted and reporters said vague word -- reducing heavy-handed tactics which was nonsense. said of new he cannot get the u.s. army prevented us

from getting into iraq. he also knew that ultimately we would defeat his armed forces and we know now from the fbi interviews that his plan all along was, once they take it over but if he created the nef casualties but politically we wouldn't leave. >> that was his plan which was the master and did not realize how much to the extreme.

so by tracking down these families to go after the social networks to put us on the path in rapid succession that in the raid were muhammed was found he identified him in a group of captives. he was one of the interrogators were to a special operations forces and fingered him. we were ecstatic because we thought if he was never captures she would have to know saddam location and he did. he was product in the morning and the colonel told all of us that.

>> in a matter of hours. so the of trade ultimately captured saddam was so sophisticated it was planned on a sheet of butcher paper with magic markers. the colonel and brian began to draw things on the sheet of butcher paper and that was the element of what the raid was. there are two orchards on the bank of the tigris river across from the birth village for cry had troops there and also occupied tikrit and responsibility for much of the area but the colonel was across the river so the plan was his team would be reinforced by two

others for a while and and then on the ground they were all willing to up in the orchard. then to put fedorov them. ultimately. >> to be as long as we needed to and tell it is the best that we have. that we need to be prepared to do this he is in the area. but not knowing what exactly the thing now affirmation he was in the underground something or other. it was not clear but we knew he was under ground.

but the two farms and iraqis and i could with take them to locations sncc but to be the commander of operation red dawn. two men tried to flee from

the orchard but did not get very far. was a sergeant from texas spotted something in the woods and it turned of to be his brother the guys name name, they did not come up with any goods or talk to never very reluctant trying to get information from them they would not give up anything. but really not much. a lot of time passed. 20 or 25 minutes. he said he is their trust me keep looking but instead they grabbed him to bring him to reform location.

nondescript the bank of the tigris river was maybe not quite 150 feet from where the farm was to use the edge of the embankment and it was all date palms and citrus. and day pressured him. when they saw there was the little bit of sharp. he. >> he was very nervous to get out of their. with day got the individuals off the patio area two of john's guys pull back there were bits of rope and actor

each. -- church but as they pulled the top not knowing what is in there they were ready to toss that. but it turns out old to believe that is where he was found i will not give away all of the details but i think the thing that people misunderstand is while the raid was flawless the child to get there -- the trail to get there was not we lost a lot of good guys and gals and scores wounded and that is the story they don't know, which was really my motivation to tell our peace. it is from my view and others certainly commanded other units and have their view but you gain a good

perspective from a commanders view with the events that unfolded the the two dash rayed and the aftermath of very few people are aware of what happened and how deadly it was. >> host: where is muhammed today? >> i sent a freedom of information act request on his location and i was told that he was held in a baghdad prison through 2006 and then he was released the last word that i had as 2011 he was living in syria. i have no idea where he is today. there are former banners that they are fighting we saw that can tikrit. >> host: as a lieutenant

but i know that general garner and others have said we never should have disbanded the iraqi army. let me clarify a, we've made bed in the north tikrit military complex some fights that fade away then disappeared many at that stage that a river in civilian clothes trying to steal the weaponry to get it out there we had a couple of clashes related to republican guard soldiers to make tough with weapons from

the area. the army disbanded so the notion that somehow there would be formal surrender of german troops in the conference to have a big surrender was never a remote possibility to begin with. >> host: how long were you there? >> one year. >> what month of 2003? >> i got in may and a left in april. >> host: widely referred to to add special ops says john or jack? >> there still serving and then go on to give away. some of was on the conventional side they have always been very respectful to me and the book tells the

relationship between conventional and then can -- unconventional and it was not by design but we work very well and very close together. >> congressman russell, you recount in "we got him" your conversation with paul wolfowitz? >> sure. he came to look at the afghan training efforts secretary rumsfeld asked that we trained the iraqi army. i ade had great experience in that area training the afghan initial army february february 2000 to early in the afghan war. sova was used to dealing with tribes and vetting but it is hard and i had an

adaptation to broke down into a biting that became very successful very quickly but we had no infiltration because i did it to the tribal chieftains and said you are complaining about not having jobs and also with the success stories. but mr. wolfowitz came to our area and looked at the training that we called the james bond island it was a resort island that i owned as part of my area it was remote with one access point

so it was perfect for training. he came out and was impressed with our work. >> and early on monday said read hundreds of thousands of troops but he was right to them later then the argument was how much do we send? rumsfeld wanted to go clean i did not agree with that in afghanistan and certainly not in iraq because early on you have to establish not only a military dominance but the most humane thing you can do with war is get it done you cannot do that with time in your hands behind your back to play nice think that is the

solution so we needed troops to gain control. i was not only the military commander in charge but i was everything. law and order, public works, a police force force, everything. so you really have to have more troops. when he said the you have enough troops? it is a loaded question to the would-be easy to say we have enough troops to do the job and i just said clearly clearly, it is sent to a question if we have enough to do our mission but what mission and you want to get done? we will have to adjust the mission down with a lack of troops. yes i need more troops we're not doing things because we don't have troops. we definitely need more troops which at the time

being a mid-level commander. >> host: of course, the field commanders would want more. not necessarily wolfowitz but he certainly heard that from a combat commander who had seen quite a bit of action. at that time we were getting action. >> he appreciated my candor and said thank you for being open and honest that i don't always get those answers so he appreciated that. what came of that i don't know but i know general odierno was doing everything he could to provide is with those forces that we have what we had. >> host: after saddam hussein was captured where

was he taken? >> been taken to the water powless that sat on the tigris river and they have their own little area sequestered off he was taken there and held there and some team members came to a that location that realistically maybe 75 that night had knew what had happened. centcom was held in great secrecy not only the

commander but to break it down to let general odierno know almost immediately and then how do security get him from their to baghdad and how do you keep it secret? we are under strict instructions to cut off communications to the extent that we could put you don't want a reporter to break the news with the president not even notified yet and it will take some time this bill mcfadyen is essentially what happened.

a special operations helicopter and then you did not want to take any chances. he was taken in flown with the special ops surgeon who spent the first night. and he actually wrote a short book about his first night. his name is mark that is how they got to baghdad after the president was notified and the chain of command could react it was broken the next morning by a ambassador bremer. >> host: what is the brick

over your right shoulder? >> that is from his home his actual home his powless was everywhere but it his residence he lived in the first village. we occupied very early on and my soldier was from when that had water in it. we brought home interesting souvenirs' from the hallway have bohemian crystal that is now in mrs. wrestles cowbirds. but it is over engineered so we stayed there. i ordered it to be

constructed and propose to have salvaged cruz come to take that a part brick by brick. every project was a hand to cut pieces of italian marble though wealth and his personal home was unbelievable. one day it was getting late with the mission i knew we would be going home and i grabbed one so there is in. >> host: view to of --. >> the rules largely weekdays specific instructions that anything was museum related or antiquities was absolutely hands off. armed combatants and enemies that you're fighting is a

different story. i have a uniform i think in this on display in florida. i have a lot of other interesting things but they were related to food we were fighting that is true we're fighting his henchman during the front -- the hunt. >> host: the hunt and captured congress rand steve russell is the author. brazil like working on the armed services committee. >> i never would have imagined i would do this number one the events

surrounding the plant and capture altered the force of my life i did not think there was a year as the congressman listening to the secretary of defense or the chairman of the joint chiefs to give briefings but it does give make it in sight. justin last 48 hours we had important greece on strategy of of the least or threats around the world and it is so easy to give penetrating questions and insight having lived at and it gives me a very sober mind because those of us have provided it you don't want to make bad decisions you don't want people to miss read to

create. >> host: thank you. >> thank you very much.

as the prospects for conservatives. a political thinker and a philosopher something interesting happened the other day there are none to my a district that i represent i visited with them for the first time and one asked if i read a the book called the joy of the gospel so i put that on the list

>> i was surprised how positive the response was with letter after letter you scared my life half to death. but we stand with you we loved the broadcast over and over again i had at least 89 pages of letters before i found one who was upset. it immediately clued me into the sense there was more to this story that had yet to be told and the more i read about it i discovered everything we think reno comes from the same basic sources. there hasn't been that much original research or documents that could be used

and here i had 1400 personal stories that were incredibly detailed but i could construct a people rested -- reacted to the broadcast 1938. plus letters from the fcc from the national archives i could reconstruct and talk about the fight and hysteria that the broadcast did cause and put it into context. . .