thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

aware of the risk. we are studying and adapting to these risks to identify, prioritize, and develop effective solutions to future vulnerabilities. thankthank you very much. >> thank you, admiral. >> members of the committee. congressman thank you for what you do. distinguished colleagues on the panel and in the audience thank you. i speak today for the over 200,000 members of the chesapeake bay foundation, board, staff. chesapeake bay is getting better but it is still a system dangerously out of balance. i use the word system because science has taught us to realize that the

chesapeake is a collection of all the rivers and streams which feed into it. of course the main stem. fortunately they're is a plan in place to restore the chesapeake and all the rivers and streams. it is called the chesapeake clean water blueprint or the mother of all t mdl. it is a heavy left. and global climate change will add to the burden. we are seeing the impact now right before our eyes. chesapeake bay foundation has environmental education centers on smith island and tangier island, inhabited islands in the midday. residents are losing they're homes.

they are losing they're island day after day, week after week in extra early losing they're home. on a property in the chesapeake bay foundation, in just the last 25 years we have lost an entire pine forest. several dozenforest. several dozen acres, several hundred trees to sea level bailable rise. i have submitted my testimony but let me just summarize briefly the impact of climate change are multiple but let me tell you about three for chesapeake bay. warmer waters have a decreased capacity to hold dissolved oxygen exacerbating the bays dead zone.

temperature sensitive species like eelgrass and many others are really truly at risk. second, the bay region is particularly vulnerable to sea level rise exacerbated, exacerbated by land subsidence. approximately 1 foot of that sea level rise in the chesapeake over the last hundred years is roughly twice the world average. thousands of acres of environmentally critical wetlands and shorelines have been and and are now further threatened with inundation. and 3rd, increased intensity and frequency of storms create more erosion and ralph increasing the flow of pollutants especiallypollutants especially nitrogen, phosphorus, and sediment

into the streams, rivers and mainstem of the bay. let me give you one very specific example of how global climate change and bay pollution are conspiring to possibly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory of one of our greatest success stories. science said that the chesapeake bay rockfish, striped bass were a fully restored species. well, with pollution and increasing dead zone the bottom waters of the day are uninhabitable all too often for rockfish. and with increasing water temperatures 75 80 degrees and more the upper levels of the bay are all too often uninhabitable for rockfish so they are literally getting squeezed and

therefore stressed into a much more narrow amount of the water column. to wrap up, let's instead of focusing on the problems let's focus on the solutions addressing climate change, mitigating the impact of climate change and implementing the clean water blueprint are more than just two sides of the same coin. we not only need both to save the bay but each will reinforce and add value to the other. one plus one can equal three. thank you very much. >> ii hope i am pronouncing it correctly. >> perfect. thank you. on behalf of the union of concerned scientists i think you, congressman congressman in holland for the opportunity to testify here today before an

esteemed panel along with my panelists and an interested audience. thank you so much. i am a senior climate scientist at ecf, and we are the nations leading science -based nonprofit working on some of the worlds most question problems. over half a million supporters who are hoping that there are changes we're talking about today. as we all no burning coal, oil, gas, and tropical the forestation are increasing the atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide at unprecedented levels. this buildup is really warming the atmosphere signifying the ocean command as a result marine life is facing multiple stresses. the ice is diminishing and we have many regions that are dealing with the increased snowpack, the rest

of wildfires. it goes on. sea level is what i will focus on today because it is accelerating which combined with extreme precipitation really are having an impact on severe flooding which is part of the reason we're all gathered here today like the city of annapolis. so the pace and amount of greenhouse gas emissions really determines how much worse things get. what does this mean for maryland? parts are already facing the risk of loss of land. everyone who cares about maryland should care about reducing emissions. the future of key economic resources and places like where we are now it really depends on these decisions. today one of the most frequently flooded cities on the east coast and the sea level rise accelerates to the climate change and the

flooding will get exponentially worse. countless communities up-and-down maryland in the eastern seaboard that are facing similar vulnerable risks. according to a recent report which we call encroaching tide, the highest ties that occur each year unathletic further inland causing more damage. and some places are likely to be underwater in the lifetime of a typical thirty-year mortgage. recent trends help explain why this is happening. over the last 50 years sea level rise has risen much faster on most of the gulf and east coast. i have included a quite start figure. sea level at annapolis has risen by more than a foot over the last century, and the global rate is 8 inches. to give an idea of the

accelerating pace of sea level rise, let's look. if we stay on our current business as usual, the highest trajectory and annapolis would likely see another 8 inches took that much in just 15 years. and just a lifetime of a home mortgage we could see roughly another 17 inches here. instead if we embarked upon a low emissions scenario and annapolis could prepare for an additional 3 inches in 50 years and 6" x by 30 years a little bit more manageable today the popular city dock is a gathering placea gathering place in waterfront that is central and sees around 50 times a year flooding. and annapolisand annapolis is projected to experience roughly 262 flooding events by the year 2030 and roughly

over 380 by the year 2045. this means likely half of the days of the year we will have flooding. other coastal communities are similarly vulnerable. ocean city is highly vulnerable to storms and high tides got more so with sea level rise. occurs about eight times per year. if we go on this pathway the city could face as much as 60 flood60 flood events by 2030 and a whopping 411 per year by the year 2045. these funds would be far more extensive than a limited flooding typically seen today. the case for emissions reductions could not be more direct. if we limited missions reductions to a low pathway ocean city can prepare for 42 flooding events per year by 2045 instead of 411 on the high emissions pathway.

title floods we will be more severe and the duration and extent by 2045. title iv is typically last a few hours or less. several locations in the chesapeake bay area including baltimore and its flood prone and are harbor are projected to be underwater for more than 875 hours per year about 10% of the year by the year2045 if we continue on high emissions. even when a hurricane forms naturally conditions brought about by climate change are contributing to the power and destructive capacity of hurricanes in the north atlantic through more severe storm surges and intense precipitation. to make mattersto make matters worse the latest science suggests that hurricanes, typhoons, and cyclones are shifting to the north which puts mid-atlantic states a greater risk.

resulting damage can be expected to worsen as rising seas only raise the frequency of flooding from regular high tide but increase the height of storm surges. the us and global community must start rapidly reducing emissions of heat trapping gases to slow the pace of sea level rise and avoid the worst impacts of climate change on our coast. the futurethe future welfare of maryland, new york, and other coastal communities depends on this. thank you. >> thank you. but we will do now, have questions from us, congressman. i will start and we will move the left. try to limit it to five minutes from each of us. we don't actually have -- mike is doing this manually. we are notwe are not high tech even though we are the high tech committee. you will be fine.

you answered most of my questions. i was going to issue questions about what exactly is happening at the academy and the courses that are offered. let me ask you, if you can give us some idea about how much it costs the naval academy to appear the damage caused by severe storms of what you estimate cost we will be for some of the things you mentioned. >> it is difficult to put an exact dollar figure. i mentioned what happened due to the damage that was caused by hurricane and tropical storm isabel. well over a hundred million dollars that actually was more than just repairing the cost. it gave us more protection. we use that money to build berms to build some of these flood doors as well as internal pumps. we are able to get that

money to make the naval academy better and safer. as you see and here the majority of the structures are over a hundred years old everything from the chapel to many of the buildings that were built at the turn-of-the-century. there is a cost to maintaining and making sure that they can handle rising waters and major events. wewe do within the budget that we work within the navy have currently enough money to handle some of these upgrades we are planning. you heard me talk about the cooper road project. as we do these other projects, whether it be setting up this knew advisory committee, we are able to do those things within the construct of the

funding we have but i have not on the congress to ask for more particular monies just as we build the structures here the cyber building that we will actually not only serve as a knew academic building but as a source of flood protection for that part of the art. so to say that i have a specific number to say this is what we're spending per year on flood protection would be difficult within my normal operating budget except to say that there are monies that come from naval facilities that support us in that effort. >> thank you. let me ask the mayor according to a special investigative report published by routers historic downtown annapolis experiences half a foot of flooding at high tide. you mentioned some of this. how is this increase impacting community and local businesses?

what are they saying to you? have you heard from mayors of other coastal towns who had to deal with the impacts of climate change? >> i serve on the municipal league. 157 cities in the state of maryland many of which are close to the water. is something we talk about and something i think there is consensus built upon talking about politics and getting outside of dc them out of the 157 cities for half partisan elections. the other ones you just run on your name. and and annapolis it is a big deal. a lot of concern from business owners. what are we doing to address it? i think we have let out a great plan, have a great partnership. we just need the funding to implement. >> okay. i am going to skip mr. baker because my questions are about rockfish. i think you mentioned on the one hand you no mark fisher back but on the other hand

what is happening in terms of climate change could severely impacted. did you want to add to that? >> just one of the big concerns is a wasting disease, michael bacteria versus. there is no absolute knowledge as to what causes it but we no that when fisher stressed they are more prone to disease. the general thinking is a fish under stress has more problems than one that is not. certainly the population is starting to dip again. >> okay. let me then go. no were recently released the state of the climate in 2014 report representing data for scientists around the globe. i know you gave us a lot of information about and annapolis andin maryland. if i could just go beyond that you know according to

the state of the climate 2014 report 2014 was the warmest year and the historical record. seventeen of 18 warmest years on record of occur in the last 18 years. just give us you know, if you could talk more globally. the average global surface temperature is half a degree above the 30 year average. it does not sound like a lot, but what effect does that have? and the upper ocean heat content has increased significantly. how does that impact us on land in general? >> is our disturbing trends. even just a couple of months ago no ifnoah found that the global ocean surface temperature is the hottest ever since we have been keeping record and the land and that meant at the time when they're was extreme inland flooding in taxes and

oklahoma were unfortunately tragically a lot of people lost property and in fact loss of life the hugely warm waters of the gulf of mexico bringing in extra precipitation and fueling some of the intense thunderstorm activities is something that is causing inland concerns for people living along the river valleys. with the tropical storms you mentioned, irene we see the scientists showing warmer oceans are in fact when hurricanes naturally occur they are carrying more precipitation. when it comes onshore and it's going inland and moving up it is dumping intense levels of precipitation, watch -- washing our bridges, the bull's-eye is causing incredible damage to people who are not used to

having there basement flooded, black mold, costs that are happening, children you don't want exposed to the longer-term effects. the other aspect is the wildfire. in some areas we have too much rain and other areas we have intense wildfires. alaska is burning right now. we just don't have enough resources to fight the fires partly because of the polar jet stream pattern that is set up this extreme relentlessly high-pressure that is relating back to sea ice decreasing in the high north. alaska down to california immense drought conditions, and we get a lot of our food from the central valley lots of economic damages related to shifting climate and the extremes that are setting up.

dry place is getting extremely dry and other places get into much rain all of wants and to intense. very high flash flood risk. this is the type of situation unfortunately climate change means we have to get used to more extremes in our infrastructure is just not built to handle the type of extremes that so-called mother nature is throwing at usdrawing at us with a little bit of assist by human activities. >> thank you, doctor p. congressman. >> thank you. you mentioned that you had a townhall recently and the turnout was very large. a hundred and 50 people. i am curious, what other residents saying? you mentioned they talked about who should take responsibility. what is the basic input they are providing to you? how either projecting there own willingness to help be responsible for the solutions? am curious what perspective you got. >> it's an interesting townhall, different than most of the ones we have because so many key players

are involved. people from the insurance company that have an interest in having updated fema maps. who they are willing to cover the residents that are concerned about the property. if it is going to rise this much where should they live them how we will they cover it. they just want a sense of what we will be done and it has been rewarding to tackle this challenge and i'm glad to say it has gotten attention in the local media for far too long it has been an issue that has been worked on but not talked about. people are engaging. a.of personal privilege to mention my colleagues here from city council. i could not do it without them. alderman kirby is here alderwoman mason. i believe i saw alderman joe budget as well. half my counsel is here. we technically have a form. they have been big

supporters as well on this. >> thank you. admiral carter i am curious , the same kind of question, the students that are taking these two courses that you mentioned tell me a little bit about the perspective they are bringing, the level of enthusiasm, interest ownership of the issue which i imagine is helping to inform the naval academy in terms of the kind of focus it should have going forward, but i'm interested in the perspective that midshipmen have on the offerings at the naval academy is providing. >> absolutely, and before i answer i want to make a highlight of my knew, not midshipmen who just came on board this summer as a full birda full bird colonel united states marine corps leading the brigade of midshipmen and is now on is to a half weeks leading the class of 2,019 the freshman class on board.

their 1st formal parade. this is key to your answer because these are the talented young men and women that you all provide to us from your districts and that we have here representing every state and every voting district in the country. i am proud of the talent that families of americans send us to come here to the naval academy. we have 25 academic majors. we focus heavily on science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. our graduates leave here in a discipline that is involved in some sort of scientific endeavor and oceanography is one of our science majors. graduating in 1981. it is oneit is one of our popular majors because the midshipmen see it as a technical science and as a

science that has application to what there going to do whether they are an aviator submariner, marine corps fighter pilot. it impactsit impacts all of there communities they go out and serve. the talent that we get is such that many of them are finishing the 140 credit core curriculum that they have to have to graduate in less than four years. that is significant because regardless of what their major is a lot of them are able to go into advanced studies which we do with some of our partner colleges and universities were more importantly get involved in caps on projects which is the area where many midshipmen can do additional work sometimes in the disciplines we are describing an understanding climate change, patterns and the study and in fact many of our oceanographers going international trips. we have sent midshipmen to do ice measurements. they are out they're doing cutting-edge research and development as part of the

curriculum which is not just so that they can be smarter when they graduate. we believe part of our charter is not just to prepare these men and women to be future commissioned officers in the navy and marine corps. we believe they will be the talent that we will help solve some of these problems. we want to keep them fired up. >> excellent. thank you. well baker. thank you for speaking from the heart, as you always do. i wonder if you could talk about what you here in terms of the economic impact of these challenges to the bay. often times we can put an exclusive kind of environmental lens on it but i imagine businesses are coming to you all the time and expressing there anxieties related to the fortunes of the day. if you could describe that

with more detail i think it will drive home why economic opportunity and empowerment is aligned with preserving and protecting the health. >> thank you, congressman. about a year ago we began working with doctor spencer phillips, a distinguished economists who works in academia in virginia and maryland. we asked him to assess the value of the chesapeake bay and its watershed to the economy of the region. if it is improved and if it is not addressed. and the numbers are staggering. the current economic value of the bay and the region environmental value to the economy is about $107 billion annually. if the clean water blueprint is successful by 2025 that value can increase to almost $130 billion annually.

if not successful it will decrease. so in terms of echo system services to the economy the numbers are staggering. when you get right down to individuals who are making they're livelihood certainly the commercial waterman charter boat captains, people who are involved in the tourism industries the impact is dramatic and immediate. when you talk to folks on smith, tangier across the eastern shore and you here how there livelihoods and the families livelihoods have been impacted over just the last 35 years it is just extraordinary. you can go beyond that to seafood restaurants. i remember you no the impact of the chesapeake bay

on our region. if you look at a television but for major metropolitan area the number of calls companies that used to speak in there name is staggering. this is our identity, and we cannot let it go. >> maybe we can come back around. i just wanted -- you were conveying probably better than anyone in this room could the urgency of the issue and it appears that what i am hearing from climate scientists and the testimony we get on this issue is how things are accelerating. it is not a linear progression. you know, even two, three four, five years ago it was still an abstract concept for a lot of folks. they would talk about these

scenarios about the future but they are here now. you're talking about within the life of the mortgage getting the places where your going to have three to 400 flooding events in the city of annapolis you talk about a high trajectory path and a little trajectory path can you just comment briefly on this concept of the acceleration of the impact? i think it is creating an urgency that ought to make this the number one overarching focus of policymakers. if you could talk to that. these are impacts we're feeling already and playing catch-up. unfortunately i see all the curves for how fast it is taking off and we only barely tasted what is in store.

how we make the changes over the next ten years really does play out. whatever your low or high makes a big difference. and the interior command i would like to say that doing emissions reductions is one of the adaptation costs that is the time that floats all boats. when we reduce the pace of change it allows the mayor of annapolis, naval academy to put in flood barriers and a more cost-effective way and do plans that are reasonable and not hurting the economy as much as if we just keep reacting. we are ready to take off and if we can avoid taking off it makes a world of difference. the difference between suffering and the somewhat

manageable world. >> thank you. congressman. >> thank you, congressman. stewardship, again vice admiral so incredibly important. iimportant. i think you and the navy in general and our military in general for addressing climate change. when i look at operations that are far and land like saratoga and some of our coastal situations like norfolk and annapolis they're is no denying that as we create these perfect storms, if you we will, as spoken to by congressman and alan, it is impacting some of the most unstable, you no , the fight for available land, some of the hardships with droughts and flooding

will impact people that can least endure around the world. and it is obvious that this becomes an issue of national security. given that and recognizing that the navy is speaking to these concerns where is the prioritization? how would you characterize that? is it a concept that is risen to the higher levels of priority? quex, 1st of. >> , 1st of all, i'm going to make sure everyone recognizes i represent the naval academy but i we will not deny i have served 34 years and navy and sailed many of the oceans of the sea on many different aircraft carriers. to answer your question, from my personal opinion mind you believe our united states navy and department of defense has raised this to eye level. my good friend rear admiral johnson oceanographer of the navy leads a panel called the navy task force

climate change that has multiple partners within the navy to take an operational risk you have some of these challenges of trying to apply science and all of the database he so that we are leaning forward in making sure we understand the future challenges. i would also give you my global view as a sailor. i think everyone would agree. this covered by 70 percent water. that gives us a pretty big area in which the patrol. they are global navy everywhere the strata the strata for most of the strata morocco to the inland coast. this is the environment in which we operate. 90 percent of all global trade moves through the water specifically through key chokepoints at the strata farmers, suez canal, panama canal.

we as a u.s. navy have a responsibility working with our partners to make sure that those ceilings of communication remain open because our world trade requires that. as weas we look at the science and the risk analysis of what is happening is a potential risk areas. i will tell you just three years ago i was the admiral in charge of the uss enterprise and all the shift that went within that carriers current group. the ongoing operations in afghanistan where charged with going to the strata formed as many times to make sure that that particular waterway remains open as the threat of the iranians was to potentially do something to disrupt strata movement of oil. we took that aircraft carrier through the straight in the summer of 201210 times.

the seawater inletthe seawater inlet temperature in that part of the world is often above 90 degrees. it approached 100 degrees. a very difficult place for anyone to operate. then we have already talked about our return journey home tour of the greatest environmental disasters known to man was hurricane sandy. i have the distinct bad timing to have to bring enterprise home right in the middle sandy. as we came through we threaded the needle between tropical storms. sandy was the lesser of the three and on our entire journey home we dealt with hurricane sandy in a way. worried about our homes. i also had an aircraft carrier, 5500 men and women

all in company going through sees that exceed well over 20 feet. water came over the bow of the enterprise, 60 feet of water. i was a thousand miles away and she had not even reached a category five storm. i saw firsthand what it is like to try to deal with the storm of that magnitude and that impact for my role as part of the national security apparatus. i was thankful that we did not damage equipment. enterprise came home enterprise came home on all eight nuclear reactors. all 60 plus combat aircraft flew off and all worried about taking water intrusion what that did hear to the united states. the other part of that is maybe one of the most important aspects 80% of not only the united states but the world population lives within 500 miles

offshore. as we talk about the impact of sea level rise here in the chesapeake, that has an impact and is something we're not only worried about here but i no our united states navy is paying close attention. as we set up our own advisory committee to make sure we understand the local impact in partner with our friends in the city of annapolis and the team i described i no our united states navy is taking a look at this on a much larger scale to help but only protector we no the look forward to how to present solutions in the future. >> looking through the lens of our military you would think that would be enough to push the moral compass to get this issue resolved. you mentioned the amount of planning required for you and members of city council. what sort of relief would be

global, do you think, if the federal part was awas a key player? would you think a major piece of the pie was a million plus? >> a million plus for the design phase with puts it in the perspective. our total budget is 90 million. just to understand how it works the superintendent leadership at the caps on chances they have all we can make an apple is the model and i don't sayi don't say that selflessly. it has a big impact for legislators in the state. if you think about it the delegation has 47 senators and they all lived here three months out of the year a quarter of there life they live in annapolis. will have an opportunity to see if. people may not have aa

chance. if the funding was in place of public works director we have enough talent the opportunity and skill set to make a significant impact. we just need the resources. >> and observation to the naked eye of a visitor, you can sense the richness of heritage and history. we were impacted in my congressional district they're were tremendous damages that impacted our heritage infrastructure which is something that is very difficult to replace. i think we need to be sensitive to that. to mr. baker, the construct of the chesapeake bay is dealing with a multistate impact. is there talk amongst your group about the role on the issue of boundaries, state boundaries whatever political lines coming into play with this discussion of climate change because it

takes these incidents to realize we are inexorably linked. maybe you can share some of the state culture that addresses this issue. >> as we were talking about before the hearing started the environment and everything about the environment they're is no political boundaries. if you lookif you look at a watershed whether your talking about pollution or climate mitigation, the only jurisdiction of government that can treat this system the way science tells us we must is the federal government. >> absolutely. >> and the federal government has been a great partner with the states. the states and federal governments have entered into this partnership willingly. we see that is the real hope for the future and that this effort now which is really the 3rd major one in 30 years has the potential to

be a game changer if in fact all players stay at the table. >> national strategy and why the president reached an executive order because congress did not act and had plenty of time. we're still trying to accept the notion we should be addressing the concept. you spoke in your encroaching tides study you speak to the high and low admission issues. can you just elaborate on that a bit more? >> sure. >> and when you talked about irene and be in my district the heavy amounts of precipitation, 14 inches in less than 24 hours. neighboring communities three. not only was it saturation of precipitation but sporadic activity within a small given radius of geography.

>> it is difficult to plan for the extremes that climate can deliver. it isit is on a scale that we just have not had to face in the past. the past is not helping us. the difference is really local communities dealing with the flooding of irene or annapolis is it fair to ask the local community to bear the brunt of the cost to adapt to this and many of us have contributed to the challenge and again the federal government has a key role to play. either we are reacting to disaster or we are proactive planning for the 2030, the time of a mortgage and making plans with local community input that is so key but having the decision support that all of our federal agencies can provide to help planners. the two levels of planning i say we should mitigate for

the low emission scenario but adapt and plan for the high emission scenario. all the numbers i gave you, let's give you an example. kings.new york if we prepare that committee by 2045, 264 flood events to reduce emissions and they will be protected. it would only be 67 flood events if we reduce emissions of the united states and global partners around the world. it is a different world command we will be safer. >> thank you. music to the ears of an engineer to here planning. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to join my colleagues in thanking you for your testimony. very helpful.

it helps provide real texture and specific examples of cost that are being incurred on a real-time basis. and as i see it they're are two types of cost, those that we are incurring from much more intense and extreme whether events caused by climate change and there are the costs of mitigation to try to reduce the impact of those longer-term cost but they all add up. you talked about townhall meeting where people were trying to decide who would help pay the bill for the mitigation cost. some of your colleagues. city of annapolis, state and the reality is these costs are being driven in many cases by lack of action at the national level and at the international level.

that's just a look at the city flood maps. the increased insurance rates americans we will be paying as a result of climate change are going up and up and up. so it is important to collect his testimony as part of our argument about the need to make the changes that you are saying at the national level and there is

a cost differential between the business as usual path and the path where we actually begin to address this issue. i don't know if you could tell us what policies you believe are necessary at the federal level in order to get off the business as usual path. >> we do need a preparedness planning and assistance preparedness and not just disaster response. that is important. there are wildfire disaster bills before congress. and we need to have the externality of the price on fossil fuel carbon burning so that we can pay for the adaptation cost help with planning for the future and make the cost more manageable.

there are different ways of doing that lots of subsidies that incentivize burning fossil fuel and if that money was stopped that would bring money back to the state coffers for federal coffers that could be helping states and local communities prepare. not even a price, new price dramatic price to change the calculus of the economic incentive. we need to have some resources to better plan because in the long run it is much more cost effective than responding to extreme events. >> right. we are actually making things worse in two ways command terms of subsidizing fossil fuels that are accelerating and we're making it worse through lack of action to increase -- not just get rid of subsidies but put a price on carbon.

i would like to ask you, mr. baker about the impact. asked you about the economic value. they obviously has huge value to the state and the country and the world above and beyond the economic value which is huge and essential to the state of maryland in terms of tourism the rockfish and oysters. as i look at your report you.out that there is based on the intergovernmental panel on climate change model the waters of the bay could potentially rise by 5 degrees celsius by 2070 to 2099. i am not a biologist whether

certain species environment. i would be interested if they're has been an analysis some of the impact to the bay resources would be if the temperatures went up to something like 5 degrees celsius. >> thank you, congressman. water temperature is one of the most basic measurement science takes and is something we do on educational field trips. the impact of anything anywhere near that level let's just take two examples the dominant species of underwater grass. we have a bit more diversity in maryland. it cannot survive above 80 degrees. you lose the eelgrass and you lose the crab population and the cascades to the system. the 2nd is warm water does not hold as much oxygen. we have a severe problem of low dissolved oxygen.

that is only going to get worse. and to your prior question when i talked to some of my friends were climate deniers ,, i say let's stop the argument about whether or not it's true or not. are you against reducing pollution? zero, no. addressing long-term climate problems is all about reducing pollution, and that is the two sides of the same coin. it also creates jobs. over and over and over we see the ways of reducing pollution and doing things differently requires new technologies demands new jobs, new investment. there is absolutely no reason why we should not be proceeding down this path

with all deliberate speed. it will help every aspect of society. >> thank you. enclosing i think clearly the responsible thing to do is the plan for what we see happening in terms of the impact of climate change. but we would be totally irresponsible if we do not work from the other end in terms of trying to reduce the increasing climate change when we no it is within our power to help reduce the impact. there are some things that cannot be mitigated. if you have a 5 degrees celsius increase in the temperature that wipes out species it is hard to mitigate for that no matter how hard you try. as we plan to address these challenges we have to on an urgent and emergency basis take foot in place policies at the federal level to

begin to reduce the overall threat of climate change directly. if we wereif we were to have a disease we would be spending lots of money is a country to treat the disease , but we would also have a full-blown effort to come up with a vaccine that gets at the root causes to prevent people. we have to do the treatment and address the cause. >> thank you. i guess we have been hear about an hour and 45 minutes i don't really want to keep everyone much longer. i think it has been extremely worthwhile in terms of the questions responses but i do not want to stop anybody if any member of the panel wants to here something else or make an additional comment or some of our witnesses feel they would like to add something. >> chairman, if i could quickly toss out -- perhaps

we do not need to discuss it here. one of the tough lessons learned and experienced in superstore cindy and irene and lee in new york was the impact on utility infrastructure and was survived and what did not. distributed generation. we saw many going without utility service for days upon days. thethe impact on small business command were culture and households of household budgets. if you want to give a brief statement about ideas you have the recalculation of thinking in order to do the preventative therapies which are hard to advance but were real lessons learned and hopefully will respond in a way that moves to those concepts the work.

>> in terms of utilities the city has taken on an ambitious goal currently working to have the largest solar park. one of the things we saw was we have this liability. let's make it an asset and vote on it in the next two weeks turning over the land to a private person to put up solar panels. reducing greenhouse grass. >> a lot of the actions we did after the actions which we will relocate key infrastructure to higher elevations. you notice there is no telephone pole no high wire.

most of the power lines kemal of the cabling and all of our steam lines run pretty much underground. we went through ended a significant overhaul to make sure key elements are placed in tunnels in a place such that we will water does go they are not at the bottom all done to make sure in the risk management of knowing that we're going to have three categories of flooding the nuisance flooding we have described the flooding that happens after a major rainfall and in the big event comecommand we mitigate that so that we minimize the amount of damage? and i would just like to say we are the navy. we operate and live at sea level. this property much of it was reclaimed from the river and creek. we are where we are and teach midshipmen from day

one tied, time, information wait for no one. >> i have no more questions but i want to thank the panel. i also want to recognize the members of the an apple is city council and thank them for there good work stepping up to this challenge. each of our witnesses testimony has been powerful and we will be useful as we go back to washington to try to continue pushing forward. thank you for having the city of apple is host us. thank you for the naval academy not just hosting us today but everything that you do is a source of incredible pride for all members of congress what we have the opportunity to nominate people to the various service academies including the naval academy.

i want to salute again members of the audience who come and bring a deep interest in the issue of climate change. and i. and i want to try to not overstate the urgency dimension of this. if there was a disease out they're that posed the same kind of threat in terms of not impact on infrastructure or impact on wider nature but the human toll coming from this threat it seems if that was coming from any other place every command center in the country would be occupied.

congress and state legislators of the meeting and emergency sessions to deal with the threat. we need to move to that level of urgency if we will address this before these trajectories overcome us and before it's too late. i hope that this testimony we receive we will be helpful in conveying that sense of urgency under our colleagues and the wider congress. i no that the audience is activated by the importance of the issue and we will continue to work for everyone from this is a priority. thank you for coming and thank you to our witnesses. >> thank you. i could not have asked for a better group of witnesses to basically relates concerns and give us important information. if any of you want to add something. speak up. anyone? all right.

you probably say he says that everyone but we really don't. congressional hearings are rather boring and not terribly helpful this one is not in that category. thank you for hosting us command we appreciate your testimony. thanks. >> thanks, everyone. [applause] >> ohio governor will join the gop presidential field when he announces his candidacy tomorrow happening at his alma mater ohio state university. he released a five minute video. here is part of it. >> what are we going to do about america? twenty people running for president. who is it that has the experience that balanced federal budget? ..

[cheering] >> republican presidential candidate jeb bush outlined his priorities. this is the first of a series of policy addresses the former florida governor plans to give on his domestic agenda. at florida state university at tallahassee. this poise minutes. >> thank you all very much for coming. on a beautiful florida morning. i get to travel around all these place. last week i was in las vegas

and they always talk about dry heat like it's some really cool thing when it's 110 degrees. i kind of like humidity myself, being from florida and it's good to be back in tallahassee to see so many friends. where is ed burr? thought he was here. the chairman hoff the board of trustees i saw allen benz. thank you allen. got a chance to see your great president, president nasher, who is back there. [applause] >> it's good to be here. i'm really excited to be with my friends. we're in the early days of a long campaign, and i'm making my case to the voters across the country and having a blast doing it by the way. it is with such joy i get to come came pan for the presidency of the ute the greatest country

on the face of the earth. [applause] >> people are ready to choose a new president. month republicans they got a lot of choices to choose from. they want to know the voters do, what we believe but also what we have accomplished. for me that story begins right near tallahassee in my eight years in office we didn't just mark time. we filled the you'res with hard work and real reform. it wasn't always the smooth path. in fact, we used to call this city mount tallahassee because it was remote from the people, caught up in the settled way 0 a comfortable establishment. i was a governor would refused to go along with the establishment. i wasn't a member of the club and that made all the difference. shy win this election, you won't find me deferring to the ways of mt. washington. the overspending, the overreaching this arrogance the sheer incompetence of the city, are sometimes -- they're treated

as though it's a fact of life. but a president should never accept that, and i will not. we need a president willing to challenge the whole culture in our nation's capital and i mean to do it. name any excess or abuse in the federal government, and these past six years it's gotten worse. the rush to take over health care when they can't even put up a lousy web site to go along with it. and cannot even keep the basic commit. s like caring for veterans at the va. veterans died while waiting for care at the va hospital last year. only two people were fired for lying about the wait times. who -- two people. we trust veterans, we trusted them to fight for us. we should trust them to be able to choose their own doctor, and reforming va will be a high priority. [applause]

the partisan abuses of the irs and the coverup that followed, all of which to this day have gone unpunished. and then there's the wholesale loss of personnel records and security information the cyberhackers in china because the political hacks in charge of opm ignored official warnings. you remember the inspection 'er general reports? there was one for opm and it said we have lax security challenges here that we'll have security breaches. it had already happened by the time that report has taken place, and today we now know that 22 million people war faked and that the information taken included inintrusive questionnaires used to vet people for security cleanses. those are 100 pages long with out sorts or information treasure trove of information for a country seeking to gain an

advantage over our country. what does it say then, with all the resources the federal government haven't, they can't even protect vital data from a hostile actor. rarely has incompetence sadr such a price. inepttyitude of this order is enough to sound the alarm but when it comes at the the northern he can when there's no accountability and few even expect it anymore that is when we really need to worry. it's come to the point with the current administration and the entire washington establishment that it so perfectly represents that it's kind of like alfred e. newman what, me worry? always someone else's fault 'we have challenge that more and more people don't believe their government work for them. i believe it and can i will take the skill is learned with many of you in this room to make it so. don't get me wrong i have not so fond memories but memories during my time in government

here when it wasn't perfect. but that is part of being a leader, is to accept responsibility when things go wrong. after the 2000 presidential election recount we moved decisively to improve our election laws and made our voting system the envy of the nation. when the tragedy of wilson took place and exposed the shortcomings or or child way fair system, working with the florida legislature we stepped up our commitment to community based care and made the system much more responsive to children in need. and when senior people in my administration violated the public trust they were removed from their jobs. when these problems occurred i took responsibility. that is what floridians deserve and that's the cupid of leadership that has been lacking in washington and the kind of leadership i will bring to washington, dc. [applause]

>> for anyone who wants to see the federal government even bigger and even further removed from this it's supposed to serve, the other party will be offering that option. as for me, i'm offering a different agenda all together. it will be my intention not to preside over the establishment but in every way i know to disrupt that establishment and make it more accountable for the people. [applause] the ultimate disruption is to reject as i do, the whole idea that government forever growing more, borrowing more, and spending more, beyond anybody's able to control it or comprehend it, is not the right way to go. i have no illusion about what reform really takes. the next president of the united states has to confront the spending culture in washington, and i promise you i will do it.

[applause] >> i think we have learned by now that you can have a fast-growing economy or you can have a fast-expanding government. but you can't have both. you have to choose. as i did. when we worked together when i was governor of the now third largest state. in my time of office, florida's economy expanded by 4.4% for a year. more than 50% more than the national average. at the same time, government spending as a percentage of our state's economy went down. in fact, that should be the aspirational goal for the united states of america and its federal budget. economic growth, growing far faster than the size and scope of washington and its budget. we balanced our budget every year i was in office. and increase our state reside reserves by $8 billion. who knows maybe there was going to be -- who know us if there

was going to be a calamity of economic proportions or perhaps we'll have -- occasionally we have hurricanes here. to be able to reserve for a rainy day seemed to make sense at the time, and we were rewarded for doing so by being upgraded to triple-a bond rating and you charity to the senior state of affairs today where our great country's federal government has had a downgrade. the first one in its history. i vetoed more than 2500 spending items totaling $2 billion that wasn't punitive. i it was a process to -- in fact i think the speakers might agree i was an equal opportunity vetoer. didn't pick out democrat line items or reward my friends or anything. this was to create a process so we could have $9 billion of reserve, we could have a government that didn't grow faster than people's income in the state. it was a process based on conservative principles and we need the exact same thing in washington. we should have the idea of veto

corleone i got to like it a lot, we need bring that to d.c. i cut the state's bureaucracy by more than 10% trying to live up my promise to make building around tallahassee silent mon. s to the time when government played a larger role than it deserved or could adequately fill. and i still believe that. a self-governing society doesn't need the kind of government that we need, and if we reform how government works and build capacity for people to achieve 'discuss by our very nature we will all become conservatives bass the don't mad on government will subside. from the very outset as president i would signal a new direction by supporting fundamental reforms that go to the heart of the problem. first, we have to confront and end the habitual practice of deficit spending. as long as deficits are an

option deficits will be the reality. the remedy i will support if president as a balanced budget amendment to be clear -- [applause] -- to be clear it had to be properly designed so that it's a tool too limit government, not to raise taxes. americans in every party are right to be worried about the fiscal integrity good solvency of our government. it needs to be fixed. i will urge congress to submit a balanced bug amendment to the state and let the people decide. second it is time to revise veto corleone. the president should be able to eliminate wastel spending threw line-item veto, such as the version that paul ryan has recommended to make sure i it abides by our constitution. overspending is a problem where the president has to assert a

national interest, even if no one else will. the power to veto irresponsible suspension part of the duty, and i know how to use it. trust me. >> the third spending freeway is government procurement. federal agencies spend billions and billions of dollars every month on equipment and services following complicated procedures that no company would use in a competitive environment. the process is slow, and too often it holds no one accountable for being overbug or behind schedule. one of the most tragic examples i've seen on the road is the hospital the va hospital that has been many years in the making that was supposed to cost $200 million, and now i think the last estimate for its completion in denver, colorado, is $1.8 billion you. can't make that ump it's hard to imagine how incompetent and complicated a process would be

to yield that result. military procurement is just one of many years where our system and processes are failing. the defense department is still operating by the procurement methods of the cold war. in some cases by the time new equipment reaches our troops, it's almost obsolete. so here we are with the pentagon that has to cut military equipment, pay and healthcare, all the while losing billions in backward wasteful procurement processes. the pentagon's acquisition system is so swamped with regulation only a hapful of contractors can compete. that's why i support initiatives by the charm -- by john mccain -- a real hero, by the way,. [applause]

>> senator mccain and max thornwerery in the house to reform the defense procourage process to make it more transparent, more flexible, and more competitive. competition reduces costs and ensures our tropes have quality equipment that keeps them safe. it's not too much to ask for the people who defend our country that we eliminate waste so we can invest in them. these problems not unique to the military. the processes and procedures used to purchase information technology are frog with cost overruns delays and outright failures of to the past five years the united states government accounting office has made more than 700 recommendations for reforming the system of procurement in washington. only 23% of them have been fully implemented. we can apply these same principles that we used to fix defense acquisitions to address to the procurement failures oz washington on the civilian side as well. this is something that requires leadership.

not just filing an amendment and calling it success as some in the senate do but actually having the leadership skills to take an idea, put it into reality to make sure there's accountability around and is to go from beginning to end to make sure we transform how our government works. [applause] >> i just got applauded by ben watkins, who deserves a lot of credit. this is one state that has reduced its debt burden in a way that the rest of the country should follow, and ben you have done a great job doing that, along with governor scott. [applause] >> i do that because he is a great public servant and is really embare rayed right now. we need to deal with real numbers the trick in d.c. now is called baseline budgeting.

it means that the current year level of spending this starting point for future spending. baseline here, like in your kitchen budget, looks like this, rice? baseline in washington is like this this. it's almostly degrees until something happens. the minute you suggest you curb growth you're an evil person. that hole system is desteined for making government grow at a rate that is far more than our able to pay for it. we no longer can afford using that as the assumption, and'll work with congress change it. you have a problem when standard accounting principles seem like a subversive idea, experts how it is with federal government. it's a rigged system. meanwhile, all the taxpayers who underrite the spending have to live in the read world you. start with a zero, define priorities and observe boundaries. it's not as fun as working with make believe numbers. i got that. but it can get you out of trouble. real world budgeting would mark

a big step toward national solvency, and in my administration it it will be the rule rather than the exception. [applause] >> this may -- you may remember some of this that is coming up. when a given agency asked for more budget authority they should be required to support with detailed justifications why they need and it also to propose offsetting cuts. the short of it is, we're going to turn off the automatic switch of discretionary spending increases and weigh budgets only on merits. too much in the federal government runs on automatic which usually means things are happening with no one stopping to ask why. we see this in the way the civil service system operates. people are hired promoted, they're given pay increases often without regard to performance. more than ever, it's a system in the old ways. ruled by inertia and uncan't

accountable to the people, and with over two million government employees on the federal payroll, these programs and these problems carry a heavy cost. and a few serious reforms will go a long way mitchell first retomorrow will be to place a freeze on federal hiring. we can expect that more than ten percent of the current work force will retire in the next five years it's a fairly safe bet that not everyone who leaves needs to be replaced. we will go with a simple three out, one in rule, across the federal work force with the exceptions for critical positions related to our security and to our safety. only one new hire for every three who leave. this policy can on its own reduce the size of the federal bureaucracy by 10% over five years. with other reforms which are more than possible as well, we could reduce the bureaucracy by more than 10% within four years. my first term as president of the united states.

saving tens of billions of dollars without adding to unemployment. we made those tough cuts in florida, and under our reforms we also made top level management more accountable by defining them as at-will employees we ensured that employees ate every level could be let go if they weren't doing a good job. the folk was up to everybody's game. attract new talent and to remind public employees that they're there to serve. whether it's the -- whether it's the companies employees or a government work force the whole idea of management is to reward good performance and make the best the standard. and that is not the system we have in washington, dc right now. much of what we have is a relic of then 1970s during the carter administration. let's just say they didn't have the taxpayers' interests foremost in mind. it's not a partisan issue. we have structural deficits we have to address. it doesn't matter what the -- who is the cause of all this.

it's time to reform all of these things to make government smaller so we can rise up as a nation again. the system -- [applause] the system they have left us rewards longevity instead of performance. many federal employees are paid far morn their private sector counterparts. compared to private certainer employees, federal employees earn a little over $1,500 more per year in wages and nearly 16 happy to a year in benefits. there are a lot of exemplary employees in the federal government it but they're treat node better than the bad ones and the bad ones are almost impossible to effectively discipline torii move. job security is one thing. job entitlement is another. every time a federal employee needs to be moved along it shouldn't be a federal case. the system is so broken that in 2013 the number of federal employees terminated for cause

actually fell to .18%. one-fifth of one percent. so i'll put in motion long overdue reform. federal lowows should retain civil rights and whistle blow appropriation it' the time it takes to remove an unproductive employee should be measured in reeks rather than years. just like in the real world compensation should depend on the type of work and quality of the work. if the aim is to bring out the best in public sir vans and improve morale across the federal work force we have to get incentives right. no more dolling out race raises across the board. i promise you we'll see loot more ex-lens in the ranks of the civil service and we'll attract new talent as well. i will also propose along with merit pay enhanced financial instance senttives for managers whose skill and careful planning

actually reduces spending. when federal employees are found squandering public money we should call them out and when they find ways to save money see, reward them. in florida you know the davis productivity award great mod toll bring to washington dc to reward people that are focusing on shrinking government. of course, the surest way to protect the taxpayers' money is not to take so much in the first place. the best way to keep government accountable is to limit its power to regulate our economy and our lives and in the coming months i will be set forth my plans for tax and regulatory reform on a scale we haven't seen since the reagan years and i will be outlining my ideas to reform the major entitlement programs and provide a replacement for obamacare. not to keep you in suspense -- [applause]

-- not could teen you in suspense but the octobertive in both cases is to bring government back within the consent of the governed so it truly serves the national interest instead of catering to special interests. [applause] after all it's the relentless expansion of government that made lobbying washington's premiere growth industry. spending on lobbying has risen by more than 45% in the past decade translating to can -- get this -- $12.5 million per member of congress at last count. yes. exactly. restrained federal spending and the burke creak meddling and we'll disrupt the culture that thrives on big go. i know how that culture work. i saw it here in tallahassee. over time lobbyists and legislators grew too comfortable in each other's company, cutting deals that didn't have anything to do with the public interest.

so along with the other change wes made the florida legislature passed a lie i signed into law that created the strictest lobbying reforms in the the country and i was proud to sign that into law and the system is significantly better after that law was passed. even before i took office i signaled a new way of doing business by forbidding lobbying by any member of my transition team. we ended the practice of lawmakers accepting gifts from almost loppy i.s.es. the reforms require lobbyists to disclose information about their clients clients and compensation. the lobbyists were a little grumpy but now it's actually turned into a competitive deal. where they show that it have more business, i think in and they're proud of the fact they have a thriving business, interesting how marks work. in that spirit, we need reform disclosure laws in washington as well. here's what i propose. every time a lobbyist meets with any member of congress, that

should be reported online, every week. on the members' official web site. that should include by way the ambiguous class of consultants who lobby but call it something else the definition of the term lobbyist should be expanded to address the cadre of government relations and government affairs specialists now populating the capital as well. then there's the pattern of so many outgoing members of congress who quickly become lobbyists themselves, as if merely moving on to business end of the same enterprise. we need to help politicians to rediscover life outside of washington, dc, which who knows, might be a pleasant surprise for them. the agree majority of the people that serve in these positions do it with great talent and they die it with integrity and can make a huge contribution to the communities in which they were serving, and i believe they should be doing that rather than translating this and staying in washington ask trying to translate their experience into

high gain. if i'm eye selected president i will use all my influence to enact into law an immediate six-cross-are ban on lobbying, a full senate term for ex-members of the house and the united states senate. [applause] and we'll take similar measures at the white house. i will strengthen existing prohibitions that prevent departing executive branch employees from lobbying member of my administration in all of these reforms it matters what example is set by those in elect office. it's easy for elected officials to lay out standards of performance for others. but what are the high standards worth if they're not applied to themselves? consider a pattern in congress of members who sometimes seem to regard attendance and voting as optional. something to do as time permits. the reality is that congress is in session for typically three days a week.

when they're up there. so it's not asking too much that every member be there and work on those days. and if it's an incentive they need how about the one that pretty much every worker in america has in their job you don't show up, you don't get paid for the time that you missed. [applause] >> a bill to dock pay of absentee members might not pass the house or senate. i don't know. maybe it could. but at least it would get them there for a vote. [laughter] >> if we can't always gift them on the job let's at least get them on the record. if i've learn anything as governor of florida it was never to take time for granted. i even kept on my desk where i always could see it's digital clock counting down the time left in my term to the last hour. i might just bring that clock

along, into i have the honor as serving the 1,461 days of the next presidential term. [applause] our leaders can be so imamericad in coming campaigns as to lose sight of the present challenges and work needed to be done right now...

>> we should make everything that we can to make it happen. all of this is part of the things that we should make across the state. and of course in our country. speaking to every voter of every background here is what i believe and here's what i know. for all of us the coming years can be and will be the best time ever to be alive in this country of ours. i'm ready for the challenge. washington

journal continues. host: dave leventhal is back at our desk, a senior political writer. we just got a look at where the presidential candidates stand in the all important money chase. who are the candidates who came off looking the strongest in this first peak? guest: perhaps not surprisingly, jeb bush and hillary clinton are in a great position of strength. hillary clinton led all candidates when it came to the amount of money that her own campaign pulled in. jeb bush even though these numbers are unofficial, was able to take in an incredible amount of money through a supportive super pac, not one of these outside organizations that are run by his friends and collectively between his

campaign and the outside group took in more than $100 million at this early juncture. some of the other candidates many candidates who are in this race put up some decent numbers in their own right. their campaigns taking in millions of dollars. people like rand paul, ted cruz having relatively decent second quarters as they came in and entered the race. when it comes down to it, hillary and jeb are doing really well for themselves, but that is not terribly surprising, given their name recognition and the strength of their organizations coming into the race, and the notoriety that comes with the in who they are. that will instantaneously attract money and it did just that. host: as you mentioned, the jeb bush super pac $103 million, but

hillary clinton's campaign committee raises $63 million -- i'm sorry, $47 million compared to just 10 million or 11 million for jeb bush. what is most important to look at in terms of the strength of the campaign, the super pac money raised or the individual campaign money raised? guest: they are different pots of money. you might think, throw it in one pot and that is the money candidate has at his or her disposal. it is more complicated than that. when a candidate raises that that is money they can use instantly. that is money they can use directly. if i'm hillary clinton, jeb bush, or anyone else, i can say we will spend $1 million on television ads, pencils and paper clips. they can only raise limited amounts of that kind of money in increments of $2700.

if you want to donate to my campaign, the best you can do during this primary season, $2700. super pac's can raise unlimited amounts of money. there is no on how much money they can raise. if a donor wants to give one million dollars or $10 million to a super pac that will support one of the campaigns, they can do it. these are the people like big name donors who likely will play the super pac game in 2016. the limiting factor is this -- they are not contrarily -- directly controlled by candidates. there is an intimate relationship between super pacs and the candidate committees but there is not direct command and control. also, super pacs do a lot of television advertising.

that has been the biggest expenditure that many have made. candidate committees, when they buy television ads or mass messaging, they can often get the lowest rates from the tv stations and the networks that they are putting those ads on. super pacs a lot less efficient because they can get charged an arm and a leg in some cases to put those ads on television. a $1 million donation to a super pac might not go as far as smaller donations to candidate committees. it is a very important consideration, particularly in a race as utterly competitive as this where we have 20 seven legitimate candidates. host: dave leventhal, he is our guest for the next 40 minutes or so. we are taking your calls. the lines for democrats republicans, and independents are on the screen.

who had the most disappointing campaign cycle? guest: mike huckabee is somebody who may be pretty high in the polls. he is right there with donald trump and jeb bush, oftentimes number three or four. he is somebody who in 2008 had great success, at least given the size of his campaign, winning primaries and caucuses, and hopes to make another kind of splash. he put up some pretty low numbers, even his pole standing. just a couple of million dollars. somebody like rick santorum, abysmal numbers. his 2012 residential campaign still has more debt, more money that it owes creditors than his 2016 campaign has cash on hand. we are talking less than $500,000 in each case. although you have some of these other candidates who are trying to make a name for themselves,

trying to stand out from this incredibly crowded field, it will be difficult to do that and get your message out when you have a very limited amount of money. $500,000, $1 million, $2 million might seem like a lot of money but let's look at it nationally. you are running a campaign in all 50 states. you have primary contests coming up fast and furiously in february and march. you have to play in most of those states. if you do not have the resources to hire the staffers to get out your message, buy television ads, and travel around, that candidates need to do, it is going to be very difficult competing against the likes of a gem who will have significant resources. host: what was the total raised and spent by the obama/rodney campaigns -- obama/rodney campaigns? guest: over a billion dollars

for each candidate. we expect the nominee for the republican and democratic parties will easily match that probably exceeded when you factor in not only the candidate's spending but spending by super pacs and nonprofit organizations. these will be incredibly supportive to the candidates that they support and destructive potentially for the candidates that they oppose. host: let's go to terry waiting in michigan on the line for republicans. caller: good morning, how are you? host: you are on with david leventhal. caller: he was trying to get his through congress but they were blocking him. as a law-abiding citizen, i was wondering if those were impeachable statements or not in your opinion.

guest: host: not really in the realm of campaign finance. guest: cannot speak to the question that i can say that congress will be a bit of a different question in 2016 in the sense that they have their own battles that they are going to be fighting. we see so much money going into the presidential race, there's plenty happening on the congressional side as well in the sense that they are competing for cash. oftentimes, you get these very hysterical messages from both democrats and republicans trying to raise money, almost as if they are saying, member us, we are trying to compete in 2016. the presidential race has taken up a tremendous amount of oxygen at this early stage, and expect this to continue. host: let's go to indiana just the waiting on our line for democrats. caller: good morning, thank you

for taking my call. in light of all the millions and billions being spent on the 2016 election, i think it is important to point out that bernie sanders, who is on the democratic ticket, is only taking public donations and union donations. i think that is very important to point out, when we have so much money in elections. i think that is a very important point to point out. i just wanted to say that this morning. thank you so much. host: dave leventhal, here is a chart from the new york funds -- near times that shows bernie sanders compared to hillary clinton. guest: it would be remiss not to mention bernie sanders who came in with very strong numbers, easily exceeding the amount that either martin o'malley, former governor of maryland raised, jim webb.

relative to the other candidates on the democratic side. or lincoln chafee, who hardly raised any money at all save for the money he donated directly to his campaign. the caller's point is spot on in the sense that bernie sanders is not unique but almost unique in that the money that he raised was not coming from big dollar sources. you are limited in how much money overall you can give directly to a campaign. bernie sanders has been wildly successful in raising money from what we would like to call small dollar donors, people giving $200 or less. it might be the mom-and-pop operation giving $50 or somebody who just has a couple of pennies to scrape together, and write a five dollar or $10 check to him. for bernie sanders, about three quarters of the money that he raised during this last quarter came from those type of small dollar donors, small dollar

sources. lots of checks for -- not checks for $1000 or $2000, but money from people giving $20. about two thirds of ben carson's money also came from is very types of sources. we have a couple of candidates who are not getting the bulk of their money from the big dollar sources but are getting it from small donors sources. host: what is considered the best combination of small dollar donors and big dollar donors? is it just all the money that you can get? guest: all the candidates want to raise as much money as they can to run their operation area but there is -- operation. but there is importance to anyone who is making a donation of any amount. i've dollars, $500 or $5 million -- five dollars, $500,

or $5 million. in a way it is a guarantee that you will have their support. they're very energetic support. if you make the automation and you take the time, putting in the trouble of giving them your credit card information, sending in a check, you are much more willing to make phone calls. talk to your friends about that candidate. you might volunteer for that candidate. certainly, on a twitter feed, on a facebook age, a might promote that candidate. there is a sign that you might have people investing in your campaign if they have those small dollar donations. they go beyond sheer dollars and cents. it goes the something that will be greater broader potential he tantamount to momentum or a movement. that is what bernie sanders is certainly hoping for. it is a big question for bernie sanders at this point. is it going to be enough? particularly with hillary

clinton having such overwhelming name recognition, momentum, and resources. in 2012 we saw a certain example , a perfect parallel not really, but ron paul. such energetic support. so many people giving donations. when you added it up, it was not enough to compete with mitt romney. is that going to happen again with bernie sanders on the democratic side? we have a lot of time left to answer that question. it is, as we say, a semi-decent parallel. host: pittsburgh, pennsylvania is up next. bill, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you again for c-span. i wanted to make a point. as for some of the examples from your guest, i have been watching the attempt to control political campaign donations for 40

50 years now. they created a complete mess. the parties are limited. their role has been greatly diminished. especially in presidential campaigns. every candidate has to try, has to play the money game at the beginning. and -- and we end up with anomalies like candidates who spend their own money. the supporting pacs cannot coordinate. they cannot put out a unified message. it is resulting in a bunch of absolute nonsense. i wonder why mitt romney did not have enough primary money to

counter the capital ads, for example. i wonder if your guest could comment on that and perhaps point out some more of the ridiculous absurdities that the attempts to control campaign finance spending have created. host: go ahead. guest: we have a pretty bizarre system. there's no two ways about it. i've spoken to plenty of democrats and republicans about this all the time. in candor they will tell you -- look, if we were drawing up a perfect system, if we were starting from scratch if we were trying to form the way that campaigns were funded and operated in the country today, would we draw up the system we have right now? almost universally, regardless of political persuasion, they will say absolutely not. this is crazy.

this is insane, what we have right now. that this is the system we have right now. the question is why. we could spend the next hour talking about the history of all of that. in brief, what it is is a system that has been cobbled together with little bits of pieces added, little bits and pieces taken out. most prominently of late court decisions that have really rewritten or at least change the laws in a major, major way. giving rise to organizations like super pac's. effectively giving the ability of certain nonprofits to engage directly in elections in ways they had not really before. you have this kind of odd tiered system where campaigns cannot raise nearly as much money in a race as a super pac. the organizations that are truly running their own campaign have fewer resources than other organizations who are not directly run by the and pain itself.

the caller made a good point about parties. republican national committee, democratic national committee, various other parties, they would not in a perfect world draw up the system either. they do not have the same power that these sort of shadow parties do. these super pac's, these nonprofits. they are also limited in the amount of money that they can raise from individual donors. playing second fiddle to these cause iparty organizations out there that have the ability to raise unlimited money. host: can you connect the super pac's to the organizations? if you could run through some of them? guest: well, we are confused about them too. 20 different candidates, 20 different super pac supporting this candidates, many of which have similar names. for example, jeb bush has the

light to rise organization. he had a hand in creating that area but then he aim a candidate and he broke apart from the super pac and run his own campaign. but the super pac will be run in part by mike murphy and a couple of other people who are very close friends of mine. it is the second best thing to running it yourself. you could not run your own sports team as a kid, but you had your brother do it. it is about as close as you can get to running a campaign operation. hillary went in had the ready for hillary super pac. -- hillary clinton at the ready for hillary super pac. they were ready to support her prior to her becoming a candidate. when she announced, ready for hillary rolled its operation down, still existing, giving support and resources to the

present campaign. other super pac's have come up to take up the arts. you can -- the oxygen. you can already see how confusing this is. every candidate at this stage in the game are going to these legal machinations, jumping through these what seemed to be like a trapeze act of different types of legal maneuverings in order to make sure that this is all copacetic. largely the law for this is very fuzzy. we are in a bit of a brave new campaign world where many of these types of a audit political organizations have not been tested firmly in a legal sense to see if what they are doing is truly legal or not. host: monticello, jeff, republican line, you are on with dave levinthal. caller: [indiscernible] seems to me like these super pac's is by the candidate

buying the election. over before you even have the main one. why don't we just have a one-day primary? whoever gets it, gets it. instead of buying a candidate pretty much down the road. can you answer that for me? guest: time is a really critical factor that a lot of people don't really talk about. i think the caller's frustration stems from that. these campaign seasons seemed to last forever. they never stop. in a way it is absurd that we are even having this conversation right now. even when you're out it would seem a little odd. presidential campaigns, being a nationwide affair, take time. but i have spoken with some folks about this notion of not

just money, but of time. should we have, like some countries do, a limited. of time -- limited period of time in which they run. an election season that is a offering for the united states? probably not. there does not seem to be much appetite on capitol hill which we are overlooking right now that would change the amount of time that candidates could raise money, for example. but it is something that probably get talked about more today than it did for, in the sense that it just seems tiring and endless for the candidates. it is very tiring when all that you do is get up every single day and spend, in some cases for some candidates hours either at fundraisers or on the phone

dialing for dollars, doing fundraising operations as opposed to other types of campaigning, or for congress, legislating doing the job that they went to washington to do. it makes you scratch your head and say -- what is the priority here? raising money to perpetuate your time in office? or doing your job as an elected official to represent the people that you have been sent here to represent? the reason that it is in the -- an interesting thought exercise i expect it will be talked about a little bit more, going forward. it is public integrity.org, if you want to check out that work on campaign finance issues. one of the more recent stories, along with several others there is a presidential campaign owner hedging their bets, contributing to 2, 4, or even six candidate. host: we will be taking your

calls for the next 20 minutes or so. mike, sell art with, massachusetts, republican line, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i thought i would comment about something that was said. bernie sanders is getting most of his financing from unions rather than individuals, is that right? guest: that is correct. caller: i don't think that that's much of a point. democrats are always funded by the unions rather than individuals. the democrats, it's almost as if they are being bribed by the unions to have power. the unions seem to be keeping democrats who are socialist in power, like bernie sanders. i don't think hillary is very much different than bernie sanders. guest: these unions have their own mechanisms. there is not a new about unions

supporting democrats, that is to be expected in 2016 as much as it would be in any other time in recent history. bernie sanders has a long track record of getting some work from various unions and that appears to be the case going forward. getting back a little bit to the story from a couple of days ago you do have particular examples of the dollar donors, people active in the political money game hedging their bet. they are not just giving to bernie sanders. they are giving to bernie sanders and hillary clinton. or hillary clinton and martin o'malley. in some cases we found that the were given to hillary clinton and jeb bush. not really talking about the candidates themselves, but the donors, they want to be on a winning team. they want to make sure that as they are now giving money to candidates, as they tried to play the political game

themselves, that they show signs of support to the candidates with an eye towards 2016, when ultimately there will be one democrat and one republican running against each other in a general election. it is a smart move, with the field being so large and so competitive with any number of republicans competing into 2016. if you get out early and show support, even if you are flirting with numerous candidates all at once and have a dalliance with several of them at the same time, that can be a smart move for some of these donors. host: william is on the line for democrats, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. yes. i would like to know, do you expect there is really no court nation between these candidates and super pac's when the people who are running these super

pac's part so closely related -- are so closely related to the campaign? guest: we don't expect it anymore. 12 years ago -- four years ago during the 2012 election, there was this bright line. mitt romney famously said in an interview on msnbc -- if i coordinate with a super pac, i could end up in the big house. well, no, he's not going to wind up in the big house, neither are any of the candidates running in 2016. as a candidate committee you can get pretty darn close to the operations of your super pac. you cannot direct your super pac to do certain actions. like, ok, run the same ads as me. on this specific day put up a big ad by. --buy. i would likely be crossing the

line. but as we spoke about earlier you can have people who have known you for decades know how you think as a candidate, who are your supporters, your friends, your confidants running that operation. it is indeed the second-best thing to running it yourself. father down the road these groups can see where the candidates are spending money and sort of follow along with their own money and at there. the notion of coordination is a bit overblown. the candidates can telegraph their intentions to the super pac's for violating any law, for all intents and soup -- purposes. there is a very open question as to whether anyone would do anything about it. in the federal election commission we have an agency that had been sent out in the aftermath of watergate to police federal elections. to make su