.. >> okay, good evening again. we welcome and celebrate the

publication of james mcpherson's "the war that forged a nation," and louis masur's "lincoln's last speech." as i said before i really wanted to do this event because over the years i have been educated and stimulated by reading these two historians. and i also got an extra bonus on baseball from louis masur's book on the first world series in 1903. but as when you actually spent time lobbying the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 65 and all the voting rights acts after that this book, these books in the work of these authors this isn't their only work as you

know. helps us to understand why the civil war, its causes, its aftermath and matters affecting raise, regional conflicts within our borders the boundaries between state and national authority, nation authority was a word that lincoln used, and with the the significance of the game change a, the post-civil war amendments, and how long it took, to have a way of making them real. so we are often a people who have trouble with memory. david blight reminded of that when he was here a few years ago, and the work of these historians help those with memory and how we apply it to our present situation. there's no permanent victories.

i set in the supreme court today a shelby county case was argued and came out the press and it's why we also have to take note of anniversaries. last year was the 50th anniversary of the civil rights act. this year is the 50th anniversary of the voting rights act. in four days there will be an anniversary of brown v. board of education your 250 anniversary of lincoln's assassination, and we will hear why that was significant. so rather than do the traditional thing of having to him historians each talk at us they are going to have a conversation with each other and then we are going to have a chance to ask questions. and because c-span is here there is only one mic so you have to use the mic near the column

year. and let us now welcome james mcpherson and louis masur to politics and prose. [applause] this is not mr. mcpherson's first time and it would not have been louis masur's first time if not for family situations. so welcome. >> thank you. it's a wonderful certainly to be here. and everybody here okay? jim and i just spent four hours in ain the car coming out from new jersey so hopefully we haven't finished speaking about all the issues last night that concerns in the world but one of the things that occur to me ma jim is the subtitle of your book why the civil war still matters. we just finished the sesquicentennial civil war celebration. it's a good question to start with. why does the civil war still matter? >> i think maybe i try to answer that question with the main title of the book "the war that

forged a nation." usually subtitles are added to a title in order to explain what the book is about. because the main title usually doesn't do that come or doesn't message to do that. but in this case i think it's the main title that helps to explain the subtitle. the civil war really forged the united states as a nation, and it also forged the nation, the beginnings of the process that turned us into the nation we are today. in order to understand how we got to be the nation we are today, i think we need to look very seriously at the civil war at its causes at its consequences. the north went to work to preserve the union. it was much more common to refer to the united states as the

union during the first 70 75 years of our history. but the civil war turned the united states into a nation. for the first 75 years of our existence as a country there were many debates about whether this was a federation of sovereign states that had yielded some of their sovereignty to a national government but have retained the essential sovereignty, of whether the constitution that formed the united states was a compact between the people of all the states of a nation, if you will, and its government. that remained very much in contest during the antebellum years. but i think that contest was settled by the civil war. it recognized national supremacy. it turned the united states into a nation consisting of all of

its people more than a series of semiautonomous states. of course, the civil war abolished slavery which had been a bone of contention that had divided the country from the very beginning and, of course brought on the war. it not only resolved the issue of slavery by abolishing the institution but with the 13th 14th and 15th amendments the civil war reconstruction amendments, it defined the entire basis of race relations and ethnic relations in this country over the past 150 years and continues to define those relationships. another thing that helped to explain why the civil war still matters today is that before

1861, there were two philosophies on what kind of a people, what kind of a country what kind of a nation if you will, this should be. there was one vision south of the mason-dixon line and the ohio river that focused on an agricultural society a plantation society based on slave labor a kind of aristocracy of land ownership and wealth that resisted some of the forces of the 19th century towards democratization towards urbanization, towards industrialization. and north of the potomac the changes are rapidly happening in the first half of the 19th century that moved the north in the direction of an

entrepreneurial, capitalistic democratic society. the civil war was a contest between those two visions of what sort of country this ought to be and the triumph of the north in the civil war set the country on the course of becoming an industrialized capitalist democratic nation. so for all of those reasons i think the civil war continues to matter as a way of trying to understand what kind of a country we are today. and because abraham lincoln played such a crucial role in this process, i'd like to ask lou what sort of part lincoln did play in forging a nation that helps to explain why the civil war still matters. >> you mentioned nation and you mentioned freedom. think again about the gettysburg address. linking use of the word nation five times in that incredibly brief address. it speaks to jim's point about how to invent a nation, the idea

of a nation how do you create initial really the idea of states, local is a triumph for so long. in the gettysburg address lincoln spoke of a new birth of freedom, that that address comes in november 10 months after general lee -- the emancipation proclamation but lincoln doesn't stop there. he continued to defend the emancipation proclamation which provided the enlistment of black troops. he continues to move forward in a variety of different ways, including endorsing the 13th amendment. one and the issues that intrigue me that led me to write "lincoln's last speech," the incredible thing about the speech is it comes several days after today's after appomattox, and the american people are expecting a victory speech. the war is over. after four years 700,000 deaths and lincoln waits two days comes out to the white house and since i can't talk i

can't talk he defers come he delays, he waits. one point there's a band outside why does the piece is why don't you strike up a song? why don't you play dixie? i've always liked that song and now we can say we have recaptured it. he was really offering a conciliatory gesture that would characterize his last speech. what did he talk about books he talked about the problem of reconstruction. now that the war is over how are we going to rebuild this nation? what are the terms of which we're going to rebuild this nation? and again striking in terms of lincoln's growth, develop, change over time, very common to talk about that but to focus on that and see it like in that last speech where lincoln defends readmitting louisiana to the union that he comes out and he publicly endorses black suffrage for the first time. an incredible moment speaking about the meaning of the war and

continuing issues today. john wilkes booth was among those standing in the crowd. he hears lincoln endorsed limited black suffrage. he says that's the last speech you'll ever make and three days later he acts upon history. the extent to which lincoln is a martyr for civil rights. he is killed after directly directing the votes to block. the issue becomes what is going to be the postwar settlement? not only the triumph of the northern industrial capitalist state but how were the three men going to live and be sort of adjusted into this new world of freedom. speak you mentioned the word reconstruction. that's the word that is fraught with contested meaning. one level of mean is we are going to reconstruct the united states after his four years of

war. but how much change is going to happen? one meaning is that you rebuild after a fire, after damage from a storm. in the same way that your house was before. another meaning of reconstruction issue completely rebuilt on a new foundation. that contest between these two meanings of the reconstruction and all sorts of other sort of manifestations grew out of these contested meanings was at the core i think not only the hope for years after 1865 but the war itself. >> that's exactly right. restoration reunion, different applications. that is there from the beginning to wonder the things that lincoln is he understood from the very start he had this vision of when the war ends, he

says in his first inaugural, at some point the fighting will stop and then what? what will this nation look like? his ideas about that go through a lot of changes and faces a lot of turmoil. part of the problem of reconstruction is how far can you go to reconstruct those states if your assumption is they've never left the union could get your assumption is that secession is unconstitutional, that it's illegal that they never left the union, therefore they're entitled to all the rights of citizens even though they say they are gone that creates a very different set of possibilities. if you're one of the radical republicans charles sumner who says -- or thaddeus stevens to talk in terms of a conquered territory. but lincoln had no use whatsoever for the. he referred to all the theories about the status of the state as a pernicious abstraction.

that's what he calls them in his last speech. for him it was clear and practical that the states merely had to be re- admitted to the proper practical relation to the union. all that is welcomed by the what is it going to mean particularly for this to 4 million freedmen have to make this transmission from slavery to freedom. that becomes the nexus of the debate for reconstruction. >> what other things that struck me about the civil war is the ironing of confederate success in the early stages of the war. the greater the confederate success the greater the ultimate failure of the confederacy. at the north had managed to win the war, if mcclellan had managed to capture richmond in 1862 coming on top of other union victories in the early months of 1862 the war may well

have been over and reconstruction would have been the union as it was. but robert e. lee and stonewall jackson success in 1862 pushed lincoln, pushed the north to a conviction that in order to win this war and reconstruct the union, they were going to have to adopt a much harder policy. a policy that would strike against slavery, strike against the resources that the south was using to wage war. so the greatest confederate success in the early years of the war, the more disastrous and destructive their ultimate failure. >> that is a paradox. so too is company speaking of after the war once the war was over lincoln's general sense of mercy of wanting a just and righteous peace but also a fair piece came into play.

this is the man who six weeks before his last speech spoke with charity come with mouthful con, charity for all. the radical republicans didn't like it. they thought he was too soft. they thought they didn't have what it would take to put his fist down and make the terms for readmission reunion reconstruction more harsh individual. in fact, one radical republican after lincoln's assassination writes in his diary that lincoln's assassination is a godsend cohesive to it's a godsend. this is shocking to think about but they thought ironically that andrew johnson was the guide who was going to stand up to these principles. he was the one who said during the war that treason must be made odious. of course, between april and december of 1865 johnson would do this complete current around. that says that lincoln simply didn't have what the radical

republicans thought was needed to put those sort of put down and keep the confederate dead, turned out to be critical to the early years of reconstruction. >> lincoln said with malice toward none and charity for all, i've always wondered about were charity and all. charity charity to all can ever think of different meanings. usually do construction is forgiveness for the former confederate to let them off easy as he once said. but charity for all can also mean include black population get and i think that may well have been what lincoln meant. justice and charity for the south by the south consists of one-third of its population, two-fifths of the former confederate population were black, former slaves. and so the charity for all and the radical republicans may have

missed the significance of that phrase. >> no, that's right. the complexity of course is lincoln understood, has the embrace of black suffrage. be interested in as big a path towards new set of relationships between white and black. no one really knew what that path was. he wrote a letter in which he said whites and blacks must lift themselves into a new relationship with such an interesting phrase. this was a society where the freedmen's bureau which he signed in march of 65 the idea the national government, the federal government would play a role in helping people make this transition was in and of itself a radical idea. it was unclear just how they negotiation was going to take place, by which whites and blacks were going to live themselves into new relationship. at the same time talk about forgiveness. and the second inaugural,

lincoln quote the new testament, judge not that we judge. drove the radicals crazy? what do you mean, judge not? should do not pay a price for what they have done? all of these issues and dilemmas are there. there is a question that had lincoln lived this is one of great counterfactual is that there would have been that kind of charity for all support for african-americans for me just made that transition from slavery to freedom a more successful one. >> i think we also need i remember the civil war went on for four years and what applies as a generalization in 1861 1862 may no longer apply as a general station in 1864-1865.

there's a dynamic. as good as the abolition barilla almost the category of revolutionary change during the course of the civil war. so that lincoln's policy in 1861, 1862 was to try to bring together the states and the people in the union that it was before 1861. of 1863 at the time at the gettysburg address he's talking about a new birth of freedom, that country that was launched as a great experiment, four score and seven years earlier is now a changed country and the clock can never be turned back. so in 1861-1862 was a kind of attempt to turn the clock back. by the latter half of the war even sooner there's no going back. it's going to be a radically

different country as a consequence of the experience of war from the experience of the destruction and intuitive or a phrase from economic history, maybe creative destruction. >> i mention counterfactual before. would often forget how pivotal election of 1864 was. could lincoln have lost that election was he thought he was going to lose. what if they had? that the other point, everybody just yet is democracy. nation liberty, democracy. because part of what so-called lincoln was succession was it seemed to be the overturning of an election by the people, that there were democratic means by which to adjust the election of somebody who didn't like being elected lincoln succession was

onea one of them. and yet four years later he very well might lose that election. how close was he to losing? >> if the election had been held on september 1 instead of november 8 i'm convinced he would've lost the election. he was convinced. every political operative republican and democrat, was convinced lincoln was going to lose because lincoln was a commander in chief of, a losing war. award that appeared to be penniless without any chance of winning it, sacrificing the lives of hundreds of thousands of men for no good cause. because during the stalemate of the military situation in the summer of 1864 it looked like this war might go on for ever and ever settle anything. but the capture of atlanta by

sherman on september 2 episodes of series of victories by shared in in the shenandoah valley turned the thing around 180°. it clear he demonstrated the old aphorism that nothing succeeds like success. in this case the military success led to political success. but if it had not happened military failure i think in lincoln's case of course he would be another about stops within. not only as president as commander-in-chief. he would've lost. >> talk about democracy. soldiers voted into election. he was concerned about the soldier vote. his opponent with george mcclellan who did something that some soldiers might like the they kept him out of war for much of the early part of the battle which is why he got cashiered. there's a store that i tell in the book where lincoln was expressing his anxiety about the soldier vote and the journalist said don't worry they will vote as they shoot.

ensured a the numbers were overwhelming -- and sure enough the numbers were overwhelming. >> that was a radical experiment by the way, letting soldiers about on a referendum basically on the war. it had never happened before in history that i am aware of. most of the northern soldiers, there were a few cases states that were controlled by the democrats illinois indiana and new jersey had not passed legislation allowing soldiers to vote absentee, both in the field. but the other states had come and we know that the soldiers voted about 78% for lincoln over mcclellan. even though at the beginning of the war that split among the soldiers probably was pretty close to 50/50. the war was a radicalizing experience for many northern

soldiers, no question about that that. because one of the issues in the election of 1864 was the abolition of slavery to that was an essential part of the republican platform but it was repudiated by the democrats. is the election among other things is basically a referendum on the abolition of slavery. lincoln's victory makes certain that congress is going to pass the 13th amendment to congress have been elected back in 1862 book still in session and 64 65, didn't pass it, then ask him what it. most ago probably seen the movie lincoln which focuses on lincoln's efforts to get the 13th amendment passed by the existing congress without having to wait until the next one finally gets it done in one of the more dramatic aspects of his presidency. speed and talk about referendums. link and choose carefully to

decide which ones were referendum and which was were not. in 1862 to the november election, an off year election which the party in power almost always loses seats came six weeks after the preliminary emancipation proclamation was issued on september 22nd. lincoln announced it. lincoln announced in whether daisy would issue the emancipation proclamation. the republican party gets to talk him democratic were elected lincoln's own seat in lincoln's own hometown goes democratic. they say president lincoln you tried your best. you announce you're going to issue a emancipation proclamation. to spoken to you have retracted the pieces i choose not to interpret the results that election that way. uses election was a reference on the fact the war was unwelcome not on the emancipation proclamation. he said i've made a vow and i plan to stand by. evidence of course one of the great triumphs of the war.

in terms of what's your feeling about this whole sesquicentennial period we just went through? it's odd of course for the 100 congress greater national commission, many sort of centralized events the same the 150th what may come a lot great things going on but it was much more sort of sporadic do have a sense of the sesquicentennial? >> it was a low-key and congress did not pass civil war national civil war centennial commission. sesquicentennial, the way they did a centennial. my feeling about that is that a transit is not as important in terms of commemoration observation as a centennial or a bicentennial. of course, talking about bicentennial's, back in 2000 was the bicentennial of lincoln's birth and does a lot that went on to within. there was a national bicentennial commission.

so my feeling is about a fairly low key observation of the sesquicentennial, which is centered mostly on state activities, virginia was the most active. but actually a pretty active programs. i thought it was appropriate, lots of good books by authors like my colleague here louis masur came out during the period, and that was all for the good spirit that has been a lot of scholarship. what can we expect with this very african structure which is generating lots of books? as we think about that period of reconstruction? talk about why the civil war still matters, still matters in part because we are living very much with some of the issues from the war that carried through to the civil rights movement that carried it down to today. any thoughts about what we might see in terms of scholarship in terms of rethinking the history

of reconstruction over the next few years as we continue to have anniversaries to commemorate the 14th of them and the 15th amendment for example, as one other notable achievements because we will have a lot of scout -- sound scholarship. to be some serious work. the new review of reconstruction as a noble if not entirely successful effort to integrate american society and integrate the former slave population as equal citizens in american society will be recognized. the reasons for its failure will be analyzed and will be the better citizens as a consequence of our understanding of that process. i don't think that to be anything like the series of

reenactments, for example, to that of an associate with the sesquicentennial. the problem is there are no reconstruction parts. [laughter] the our lots of civil war parts. you can go to gettysburg. you can go to antietam, go to shiloh and so on. and all of these parts have had important sesquicentennial observation of those anniversaries, but you can go you can go to congress on the anniversary of the reconstruction acts of 1867 but not much is going to happen. [laughter] >> no, that's right. let me tell you, into a swiss we will take questions from the audience so i know there's one microphone if there's anybody who wants to begin to line up ask questions, that's fine. for me it always comes back to lincoln. this is my second lincoln book and the probing of going to write a third one and there's

something about lincoln as you know that once you start to study him, he becomes more mysteries in some ways rather than less. i've given a lot of thought about lincoln as his hold over the american imagination. i wonder if you been asked that before any get any sort of response to the event i was and what i think mine is. >> unquestionably one of the most important aspects of the image of lincoln and his iconic status in american society is martyrdom. at the moment of victory, at the moment of triumph he is cut down by an assassin, and that instantly elevate him into a status of martyr. clearly lincoln would've been one of our greatest presidents and would have been one of the most studied, the most studied president probably even without the assassination. but clearly that creates another dimension that helps to explain

the eternal fascination with this remarkable man. >> i think the other side of the for me was captured best by w.e.b. dubois, the great civil rights leader, historian, first african-american to get a ph.d from harvard in 1920s at the time of the dedication of the lincoln memorial he wrote a series of essays which he gave thought to exactly this question. and he said something that is really striking. he said i love do not because he was perfect but because he wasn't and yet he triumphed turkey went on to say the world is full of illegitimate children. the world is full of people who are educated through the gutter. the world is full of people who were born hating and despising their fellow man. to the i love to say see this man, lincoln? he was one of your and yet he became abraham lincoln. and that since of rising up,

becoming something, the potential within all of us i think he does come back to him time and again. thank you. [applause] >> i have to say i'm reminded of something i just want to tell a story because what you james mcpherson and you louis masur date, reminded me of the time of the hearing in the senate judiciary committee on the confirmation of robert bork and three people were testifying testifying. william lautenberg who is an outstanding historian of the new do, john hope franklin who many of you have read and have senior and dan sullivan who was a law professor, and what they

did rather than talk each individually, was they had a conversation before the senate judiciary committee along the lines that you get about the constitution. and i think that's one of the best ways of all of those depreciating and learning. and i want to start with the first question, which is and as was suggested in your closing comments, but we feel the deification of lincoln. and yet when you, louis masur wrote about the 100 days between september 22 and the emancipation proclamation, and you, james mcpherson have written so much on how we move from, to a nation, there's lincoln's leadership in this house political leadership and it seems part of our culture is

antipolitical, and appreciating lincoln as political leaders seems to be deemphasized in place of the effects of the martyrdom and the deification. i wonder if you could reflect on that? >> there's no question but that lincoln was first and foremost a politician. he loved politics. he lived and breathed politics. he first ran for office when he was 22 years old, 23 years old and new sale of illinois. he lost the first election to the lost others but he never lost his love for politics, and also his ability to practice politics. he was a master of the art of the possible, getting things done through the system. and i think you're right quite right but that often gets lost in our look at lincoln to the

commander-in-chief, lincoln the president, lincoln the great emancipator, lincoln arose from all the rest of the. preeminently he was a politician politician. and he would not understand that in a pejorative sense the way we often do now. he would understand the way in which you govern the way in which you get things done to make progress, you lead, is through the political institutions which he could play like it was a piano. >> and he loved it. so let's not idealizing. like you said, the case is in my mouth. and herndon said about him that his ambition was a little attention. he was a politician, ambitious and how to play the game. spent deciphering lincoln question from both of you commented about second inaugural and last speech from that he

said something come got no idea what he really meant. i realize didn't have a chance to write an autobiography but didn't he discuss any of these things? are we left purely with his words left purely with this word or two in informal dialogue that had boycotted talks with what he meant for charity come what he meant about charity, what he meant about the of the terms that we don't know? >> one of the things william herndon said that lincoln was a was the most closed mouth man he had ever known. lincoln frequently did not explain what he meant because he wanted people to place their own interpretation on what was sometimes i think intentionally ambiguous but in other respects we do sometimes have explanations what lincoln really meant. his private secretary who came very close to him kept a diary

and recorded a number of different conversations with lincoln private conversations which lincoln unburdened himself. so in some areas we do have other testimony about what lincoln was really up to them what he really meant to what he was trying to get spent i would add two quick things does i don't want to get into people asking question. some cases where we can see his rewriting of the senses or something about the thought process. in the end can we say what he is thinking when he wrote the mystic chords of memory? probably not. he may not have known at that is most eloquent wordsmith imaginable. the other thing about not being to go about things, also connects his storytelling the he famously told us towards a response to being asked questions. he explained the story. he just told the store and people would walk away scratching their head.

what did the presidency? i don't know, sir on thing about the river indian scratching his head. spent these stories were parables. of course, lincoln grew up reading the bible and he also grew up reading aesop's fables. those are parables, jesus words in the bible are parables. they carried meaning is sometimes the meaning is obscure. you can deconstruct them in many cases to get what he was driving at. >> i'm kind of surprised that the history that i learned growing up in the '50s after world war ii very much as you described the civil war changed the nation and things got better, but as i've lived as an adult what always surprises me is how much of the civil war is still unresolved. we moved from a jury situation to a de facto situation but a

lot of things have changed even if somebody like what you system, just as roberts of the supreme court says yes it's all over come,and it's perfectly obvious that it's not all over. that's happened several times. it happened in the 20 with the birth of a nation and war lynching. so i'm surprised things have changed of having changed as much as i thought they had. spent i think history is a sort of two steps forward, one step backward. maybe three steps forward, two steps backwards. we were talking earlier about reconstruction. during the reconstruction period blacks voted in southern states. they form the majority in some southern states. a lot of them were elected to higher office. congressman senator, lieutenant governor and so on. the courts enforced the 14th and 15th amendments for several years but then there was

a reaction. we can leap forward skipping over a lot but we can leap afford to the 1960s. the 1970s the great deal of progress. but as you suggest of course there's a one step backwards again. so history is not necessary a straight line. there are ups and downs. there are fluctuations everything that's what the story is all about. the civil war is and reconstruction from which i think always have to be considered as part of a union our major punctuation points in the process. you probably remember as i do that the 1960s are often called the second reconstruction reconstruction. another major punctuation point in the history of civil rights and we will continue to see that happen i think. >> two quotes. ralph waldo emerson, liberty is

a slow cooker i used that in my last book. and think and martin luther king spoke of the arc of the moral universe is said it's long but it into torch adjusted while it's very hard, at times like these, to see the progress, the growth is jim suggesting, it's important to acknowledge that there has been incredible change over time. is not linear and it moves in different directions. it's change that does happen on its own and that's the other important point. >> thank you both for thank you both most of our for telling the truth. and i do want to applaud the united states park service for all of its work during the commemoration of the sesquicentennial. i've been all over this country to various events come and affect public you at the one at norfolk state the kickoff of virginia, thank you so much for telling governor mcdonnell that yes indeed, slavery was

everything about the civil war. he came to apologize, and i know that you and other historians were responsible for that. i just returned from charleston, south carolina, with others who were there for the ending of the civil war. because you know that's where the shot was fired. and was an outstanding day of learning and growing and developing good and i think for the very first time the truth has come out about the meaning of the civil war and how indeed shaped this nation. and i thank you for that. and i guess also because i am a decent people who were enslaved on both sides in virginia. and as was said i am glad president lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation and saw the 13th amendment get through congress before he

transitioned. but more important i think because of the inability of people to face the truth, to live with what is truth and to learn from it as they historians have been teaching us, this is why we are expecting exactly what the previous questioner said, that continues to reverberate. and i'm curious as to what politician in recent times since then that you think most emulates and carries out lincoln's great aspects, and he was a very astute politician. that's the first question. [shouting] >> okay, i'll stop. i'll stop with that one and that's fine. >> thank you very much for your comment, thank you. >> it's an impossible question to answer what i will say is this. what's problematic to me about

politics in general is how doctrinaire and rigidify positions have become. to think about lincoln as a politician as jim was sent them he changed his mind. he worked with all sides of the aisle. the split between andrew johnson and the radical republicans i don't think it would've happened if it didn't happen during the war between lincoln and the radical republicans. that is the kind of political flexibility and understanding that he exhibited and a craftsman for the politicians have exhibited but it's difficult to find the politicians who don't seem to burrow into it particular rigid oxford position and are willing to understand that politics requires these kinds of compromises and trade-offs. spirit the emancipation parade is this week editor to the united states, troops, and i hope in a few will encourage

other people to be there, and she will be there. >> thank you very much. spent i am a member of the lincoln group of the d.c. which is having a symposium this out at the new covenant presbyterian church on the legacy of lincoln and the civil war. and my question goes back to those last weeks of lincoln's life. reading that lincoln had with grant and sherman and admiral porter and later after lincoln's assassin, sherman and his first surrender terms to johnson says i will allow the confederate government of north carolina to remain in power. and he later said i thought i was doing what lincoln said i should do. what did you think about sherman's interpretation and what lincoln was talking about when he met with his generals in those last days? >> i mean, i think i understand

what sherman was coming from. that's what i was saying about lincoln come and jim colbert, let them off easy. there's this bizarre moment in those last days before he hears about appomattox where he's having discussion about virginia allen virginia legislature to come back in and ordered to repeal the order of secession and the cabinet was crazy. nobody knows exactly how to proceed. that's the point. of course, in the aftermath of lincoln's assassination sherman's agreement is countermanded the grant goes bad and then move towards a very different reconstruction policy. keep in mind what lincoln wanted, the reason why gives his last speech is the nature during the war that several states, the most successful of which was louisiana and that's why didn't i list it is almost devoted to louisiana, they had voted,

adopted a new state constitution, abolished slavery elected representatives. he wanted to get those states back in as quickly as possible. in that sense those terms that sherman offered perhaps may have felt to produce that result. one slick as assassin the idea of the conditions under which the states are going to revisit the unit are completely rejected and change. congress is going to reject all of those who have been collected and beginning the process of reconstruction. one last point. remember congress goes out of session in march. lincoln is thrilled. one of the reasons why he gives speeches he figures i've got six months to make the case to the people as to reconstruction should take place. that, of course, was not to be. >> the question on sherman, sherman misinterpreted i think what lincoln was the same on the river queen.

earlier lincoln had stanton send a dispatch to grant after generally approached grant entered about the generals getting together and hammer out the terms of peace. lincoln to stand and sent a message back to grant make no political agreements. make no agreements with the enemy unless it's for the surrender of his army. sherman never got the memoir. grant did of course and at appomattox the terms had to give only with the surrender of the army. ultimately that's what is sherman terms, as a rejection of the original but sherman had misunderstood the conversations that they had on the river queen to think that he could actually negotiate political terms are not just military terms with the enemy surrendering to him. if he had gotten a dispatch that

lincoln center grant i think sherman would have never done what he did. because it was a political agreement as well as in which agreement. that was a no-no. >> i have a question about land redistribution to the friedman and speaking of children, famous 40 acres and a mule. was there ever any feasible political liability? the radical republicans felt that ann johnson spout off that he's going to break down -- at lincoln ever spoke, any spoken word on that possibility? >> actually there have been conversations between lincoln and some of the radicals in congress over confiscation. the constitution says that there shall be no corruption of punishment for treason.

in other words, you can confiscate the property as a punishment for treason but you cannot prevent the children from inheriting the problem. that was a powerful road block the confiscation of land and the redistribution of land. the constitutional prohibition against what they called corruption of blood. because of course that have been done in the middle ages by teams if you get rid of the opposition by taking away their lands and this inheriting all of their heirs. that can be done under the american constitution and that was a powerful road block the confiscation of land. >> even if those still well-to-do and it comes back to the question what is the price that they will pay forever lost the work with at the same time there was recognition of importance of land in terms of settling friedman on abandoned land, and other kinds of attacks to try this is an agricultural sort of community come to do

that yes. but not to the point of the radical republicans overcome confiscation and redistribution of land. >> i was just wanted to give a brief take on the pathology of the lost cause it seems to exist in the south? do you see it more as a piece of harmless commemoration or something that is more damaging and possibly like what we could learn from the civil war? >> you raised a long and complicated issue, one that we probably could spend a long time on and don't have a long time to spend on it. i don't think that it's necessarily harmless. much of it, for example, in recent years is focused around the symbol of the confederate battle flag. one might say that it's heritage, not hate and,

therefore, heritage is homeless. hate is harmful. but the confederate flag has been used as a no question about that. so it depends on the circumstances, on the context whether the so-called myth of the lost cause confederacy was illegitimate nation, legitimate cause. they lost the war but they were never proved wrong. they were right and the flight is a noble symbol of that. that can be harmless or harmful depend on the context and circumstances. over the past 100 years i think it's been both at various times. >> as is the revisionist attempt to argue what the war was over. art of a lost cause is to say that the confederate cause was not to defend slavery.

that becomes a problem. it becomes a problem with alexander stephens gave a speech calling slavery the cornerstone of confederacy. it's a problem for your vision of america post-civil war. it's not just about symbols such as the confederate flag. it's also about your understanding of ultimately what the war was or wasn't about the continues to play out in a variety of different ways. my real question is on the 1903 world series but it's not germane. [laughter] not germane here. to counterfactual questions. even if mcclellan had won that that election he would not have taken office until march 4, 1865 when the war was virtually over. do you really think he would have succeeded to the southern demands that they be a separate country? and if lincoln had gone along with the congressional reconstruction, would the

radicals abandon at least been modified reform what they did to johnson's? >> let me say one thing that will connect baseball to lincoln -- [laughter] in the election of 1850 there's a wonderful political cartoon that shows lincoln holding a bat and the other candidates holding balls and accusing baseball as a metaphor for which candidate should be elected. lincoln is talking about striking the ball there and hitting the home run. so there are long connections to baseball and lincoln. as for the election lincoln, sing in the event that he lost he felt it would be his duty before the inauguration of the next president to resolve the conflict in some way. i don't know if you have thoughts about what would've happened had mcclellan been elected? >> if mcclellan had been elected it's not only a question of lincoln still president for four months, but the election

would've been interpreted as a mediation of lincoln's policy of restoring the unified military victory. it probably would have forced even lincoln during those four months into some kind of negotiations for a compromise which would have, would have involved at least a limited recognition of the confederacy. there's no way of knowing what exactly would've happened. what we can know is clearly the election would've been interpreted as a repudiation of restoring the union through military victory. i forget the second question spent with the radical republicans have gone after lincoln? >> no, they wouldn't. i think johnson was the target for his specific defines in congress. he vetoed every bill they passed on reconstruction. and then they passed over his veto and then he tried to undermine it by executive not

action to or executive action. congress finally got fed up. as lou said that never would've happened if lincoln were present. and therefore the not that kind of showdown of impeachment. >> i left and exciting nationals game to hear what you also get and the nationals won in the ninth inning with a grand slam home run when they were behind. [applause] >> pretty good. >> final question. >> i was wondering if you guys could give me a more nuanced view of sort of the causes of the demise of the freedmen's bureau? you know was a more than just sort of the rise of the ku klux klan and johnson veto speeded the freedmen's bureau had been great as a temporary bureau. and in congress extended its life by legislation over johnson's veto and 1866, but it

had a fixed term. it was to expire in 1868 and continued for limited purposes, that is helping the former black soldiers get their bounty money. and for certain other purposes than to 1870. but it had never been intended as a long-term or permanent institution. it had a fixed term of life by legislation. >> and within the ethics complaint most stores to argue was incredibly successful. when you think about the bride of paths not on helping to resettle freedman result in resolving contract disputes, creating schools and education may be one of the great achievements of reconstruction. is shipped in literacy rates among blacks is an astonishing achievement. a number of teachers in schools that emerged. for all of that all connected to

some of the real accomplishments of the freedmen's bureau while it did exist. [inaudible] >> thatdid lincoln set it up that way? >> congress did yes spent congress set to do. lincoln signed in march and then the renewal johnson did it and was passed passed over the beta but by then there were many other more accountable problems facing reconstruction america. spent thank you. >> what a fabulous evening. [applause] ..

>> the authors are ready to sign both peered thank you for being here. they are sitting here and just line up. one on the right and one on the left. speed fox news anchor trencher

recalls her life in current broadcasting next on booktv. [applause] >> good evening. my name is john heubusch. i had the honor of being at the ronald reagan presidential. if you please stand in judgment for the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god

indivisible with liberty and justice for all. thank you. please be seated. before we get started there's a few people in the audience that i would like to make sure we recognize tonight and i'll begin with the state of california's gail wilson. [applause] we also have witnessed dr. gary shepherd, vice president of strategic communications for general electric. gary. [applause] tonight is a special night as we have witnessed a very special group of students from around the country. 20 ge reagan foundation scholarship winners and their families. if you want, please stand.

they will be attending universities this fall back down one of the country's greatest companies and of course one of its greatest presidents. thank you all for coming. people often ask me whether there is a criterion for someone who's except the reagan library. as many of the regulars know we have hosted a wide variety of logical new figures, some of international importance and similar president said the united states for example. we also see a candidate for the president such as the 412 year for a presidential primary debate. [laughter] we also host and port book authors, hollywood stars,

historians academics, media personalities many who help shape the course of the nation. one thing about these special people have in common certainly not all is an important connection to president reagan in one way or the other. today we have with us gretchen carlson, and instantly recognizable to air in america appeared she's important in their own right da vinci helps to inform or influence the opinions of millions of people around the world through her position at fox news. in addition to her fame, her career and her very persona have a great deal in common with our 40th president. how is that? there is a theory i have one type of life and the success of ronald reagan that is not much talk about that is most

certainly true. that is i believe people underestimate the value of underestimation and i think this is something gretchen would agree with but let me explain. ronald reagan got very far in life and became one of our country's greatest presidents for a lot of them. he was smart. he had lots of talent. he was a great communicator and have a moral combat that helps them determine right from wrong. one thing he had going for him is people often underestimated him. this serve to its benefit many times. let's see if you remember some of these. it was to be rated movie act here someone not serious enough to be taken for a president. used to conservatives to be alike into national office. he wasn't smart enough. he came from hollywood.

he shouldn't be taken seriously and the list goes on and on. all of these concerns about ronald reagan led many people his critics, enemies, opponents for public office who just plain underestimate him every single day. i know the president doing with these criticisms. in effect he enjoyed on the underestimation. had often allowed him to be expectation and succeed in what he chose to accomplish in his life. gretchen carlson is a perfect shining example like president reagan as someone who has succeeded he on her wildest strains and the expectations of others because she too has been underestimated her whole life. gretchen has said that while herself. she called it the bimbo factor.

the quintessential blonde. she's just not smart enough, do she graduated from stanford university with honors and studied at oxford. she's miss america, literally. don't take her seriously. nevermind the fact she succeeded in winning that contest from an artist it is to the world's largest provider of academic scholarship solely for women. pal accounts for half the score and i noticed to be absolutely true. i was a judge for the miss america pageant tigers after gretchen was there and i can tell you i would've voted for her hands down. talent. well she was trained as a classical violinist into this state day can play with just about any orchestration may

choose. i'm not exactly sure how management or board rooms or even society at large have made decisions to promote gretchen but it is a fact like ronald reagan she has become a tremendous success and great port because she's been underestimated every step of the way. i have a feeling that is fine by her. she's used it to work even harder and importantly to reach out to others who like her have dreams of their own. it's her story that provides inspiration they might need to succeed as well. ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcoming to the stage gretchen carlson. [applause]

>> thank you so much john. i love that analogy to president reagan. i am humbled by that analogy. i have to tell you coming here for the first time was bittersweet for me and overwhelming and nostalgic because i had the opportunity to meet president reagan in the oval office when i was miss america. probably the proudest day of my year as miss america. i'll never forget what he said to me. he knew us as soon as we have heard i said well that place has really gotten liberal. but i was able to say they had when it came to stand for a permit all-time minnesota i had just turned 18 and those that are signed he was running for president and i got to vote in the presidential election for ronald reagan.

[applause] people may know me from television but here's a couple things they may not know. i'm 100% swedish. i was high school valedictorian. i grew up in a capital of the world in minnesota. i'm not the shortest miss america ever. i hate putting on makeup and i'm not at work. i don't know how to type. i don't know how to parallel park. i can't whistle. i grew up a teen which i would get to. when i was little grubby was little girl before a two rounds of braces i could fit this finger between my two front teeth. so why did i want to write "getting real"? i love this book because i want people to know the real me. sometimes duplicate impressions of personalities that are not completely accurate. they've never had any problems. they've never had his struggles

as they got the golden phone call from new york one day. come to new york to be a star. it never happened that way for me. the real me, that shall me, the chatty was a concert violinist in the age of six and took on the challenge is to become miss america, television journalist for 25 years, the mother of two who just like so many other women whether inside the home or outside struggled with the whole concept of having it all. a woman who is guided by her faith. and my mother who always told me tonight after she said my prayers to make him you know, gretchen, you can be anything you want to be in this world. and i believed her. and it was a tremendous amount of hard work and perseverance and pitfalls along the way that was possible that the american dream is alive and well with me. recently reported news on a daily basis in the last 10 years fewer people believe in the american dream than before and

that is sad to me. i wanted to read this book to let people know if a little girl from a small town in minnesota who happen to play a mean violent could become miss america and have her own tv show 25 years later that if i can do it, i want you to get out your list of things to do sitting there for a long time and feel inspired for you to do it as well. for here is what i tell my kids and an excerpt from a book about working hard. we all have luck in our lives. but i don't tell my children maybe you'll get lucky. i tell them to work hard and study and give every challenge their all. i make sure they understand what it is to have strong values and always strive to do the right thing. my theme is to play in a world stage. no one told me i wasn't good enough for skinny enough for any

other enough. my life stretched out ahead of me while a possibility and i lived with the ever present idea that i could do anything if i set my mind to it and was true to myself. but in life what we learn is that it's actually the failures and pitfalls along the way to build our character make us stronger people. i alluded to the fact i was a teen. in retrospect that was a blessing. but it forced me to do was build myself a stamp and the inside of my soul and not worry about the exterior and boys that incredibly great life lesson when we have social media and technology and photo shopping and unrealized expectations of trying to be perfect.

we need to go back to that idea of building who we are from our sole. my problem was my hobby back then was to eat. i love it. it's my favorite thing to do. i still struggle with my weight today. it shows they know how to do it the better. when i was a kid i didn't care. the funny thing was my mom was a gourmet cook. that did not help matters. she would make this whole spread of food in the house and leaves me with my babysitter, congresswoman michele bachmann of minnesota [laughter] and shoots a gretchen and michelle, do not eat any of the doughnuts that i've made or any of the chocolate chip cookies for the beef stew and for sure don't want her drink and eat grape soda. the minute the door close

michelle would look at me and go lets go for it. [laughter] it was during her share. when she babysat me. her hair went right down here and i idolize her for her beauty even back then. hard to believe she's 10 years older than me, but we grew up in the same town of a no go, minnesota and she was a babysitter. my mom would come home and say who ate all the food and sometimes with my best friend was over i would point to her. i would say it was her. the only problem with malik had been dinner and i kept getting louder. dear member levi jeans or quarter as for those in my generation? why would they put the wayside in height as on the back for everyone to see? i would immediately get out the sharpie and cross it off because i was worried that my weight

size would actually be a higher number than my height size. so what finally changed me to want to lose weight. well, it was a boy. tenth grade and i overheard the high school senior who i like, overheard him say he's a great crowd but i can't hate her because she is too fat. that day i went on a diet and lost 35 pounds. and i didn't go out with him on a date after. that is very built my self-esteem. i just want to share with you the conundrum i had in my life going up with the talent that was so lucky to have my parents foster and help me cultivate and how i sort of lived a double

life, many times do people not understanding me. this is from the first shot her and title sparkles the nickname my grandfather gave me. my heart was beating metro hands felt clammy waiting for me to be announced at close my eyes and repeated the words to the lord's prayer once again. at 13 i was about to get the biggest performance of my life. the minnesota orchestra was on stage playing the rousing piece for the common man aaron copland. the music was fast-paced and uplifting. i was sat next to play a solo, the first movement of the symphony has been no bigger soundproof door open, a rush of cold war came at me and i began the long walk across the stage, violin and hand. i was a girl, awkward in my

tracks but also a concert artist who would lead an entire orchestra in the performance. the audience rose to its feet when i was done. i heard rob lowe bravo. i returned twice more for bows. and then it was over. normal life resumed. after the dressing room my mom drove me to school. and lucky for me there was a test. by fellow students had no clue where i'd done earlier that day. they didn't understand the other me that it just performed at 13 with dierker start.

17 everything changed because i realized to be that have to give up television. i went and told them i wanted to quit. they were devastated because of the immense commitment i put into this for my first 17 years. my parents made me promise i would come up with another way in which to use the talent to achieve some sort of other cool. in the meantime stanford university concentrated on academic and she said i found something for you to try. i got a brochure in the mail and it's from the miss america pageant. 50% are based on talent in the interview you. they want more people.

i said are you not i grew up a kid. i was a tomboy. i was much happier playing arm and foot off than anything else. and she said gretchen i think you might be able to try this. let's just say my mom sent incredibly motivational person over time she convinced me to try this. keep in mind i was a total novice. if you haven't noticed i'm sure. i was from the state of minnesota that wasn't known as a great pageants date. i play the classical violin. it is number one again. my grandfather whoever there is so much and gave me my religious foundation and hardware cap back and he even said to me you know

i think you're a fantastic granddaughter, but you will never be miss america. i said why not. because you are too short. i went to the library and found that the first miss america ever margaret gorman, bless her heart, five-foot one. i ran back inside grandpa, even your words are not god's words. i have two and half inches on her. i went to accomplish the dream and i told no one. i went to tell the dean of stanford i was stopping out to try and go home. she looked at me and said looked at the inside that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

there is this guy who would become well known for the computer president and he would pick a spot and based on things. on the morning of the pageant it is published and i know weren't any of his predictions. i'll never forget the hotel lobby at 6:00 a.m. until midnight and she was shaking me saying you can do this. you have word so hard. forget that computer guy. the computer goes out of

business. she's quoted as saying these contestants keep getting who is going to win. this is a wonderful achievement i've worked so hard on, but i have to tell you it is a shocking revelation very soon after about how people would take it down because. it was almost as if my entire resume with overnight. in the first couple hours i was dubbed the smart miss america. i thought this is a great headline. this is a good year for me. that lasted a matter of hours. what year did the vietnam war and, and finally, have you ever done drugs and have you ever had

act. -- sex. the entire new york press corps booed her and reporters from the front row passed out. they were like well. they could not believe i learned right then and there i would develop some tough skin that year. i had a famous celebrity judge william goldman who i just found out also judged in 1994. wait until you hear what he did to me. he developed the princess bride, well-known guy. he decided to write a book about me the year after he judged and here is what he said published

in 1990. i say this. it's a good thing i did know the book about later because i might have shaken my confidence to read page after page about my inadequacy is wrapped around the title he gave me miss piggy. he also called their god cloture because i said my face was to me. i was also too chunky at 108 pounds. too chunky to make the top 10. he seemed downright offended that talent should count as half a score and he didn't much care for my performance which he referred to as fiddle. he admitted to favoring miss colorado. still, his criticism of me was a little over the top. subject object vacation and the other women was demeaning. rereading it recently i was surprised to find that it still

sung. i was embarrassed, even ashamed. it made me realize shamanistic fours. for decades i had my feeling because i was so belittling. but i certainly have no reason to feel that way. now i understand this degrading talk is what keeps young women are being fully themselves are even trying. knowing yourself and not letting your detractors get you down is the message of my book. miss america type in my skin and boy did i need that when i got to fox news. [laughter] before i did that, i also want to share with you why have great and the for anyone who's ever been fired or lost their job because it happens to me, too.

a week after i got married in cleveland ohio we were part of a revolutionary to female anchor team, the first to do local news to women six and 11:00 p.m. and it didn't work out. i got caught up to the manager's office the week after my honeymoon and here is an excerpt. my instincts were correct at the two female anchor concept isn't working he told me bluntly. unfortunately don't have another position at the station based on your current salary. my stomach clenched as i realized my worst fears were being realized. what's going to happen to the broadcast i asked. did they sustain on them would replace you with that man he replied any added now that you are married you will be fine. i was too stunned to respond but

later it was those words now that you are married you will be okay that upset me. i was so disappointed after i spent four years at a station in his had no idea who i was. i was a professional who dedicated years to establish in my career and he had rushed out with a gratuitous remark. i'd never heard of a man losing his job and being told don't worry you are married. you will be okay. my career has zero to do with whether or not my husband also worked. it had everything to do with personal identity, personal goals of making the most of my life. again another example for years and never spoke publicly about being fired. is too embarrassing to ashamed. it was a huge failure. i tell the story openly in the book because i want to help people get back on their feet and i want them to know that i've been there.

i give advice in the book mainly to get get close to every family member even on bad terms because you need them. network with every person you found in your whole life. not even your own career path. call every person you've ever known. be willing to take a job that may not be the job you really want. you might have to take a step back and then if that's what aaa hard at it and that is how you get back in the game and that is what i did. the second year of my marriage i spent away from my house and in a move to dallas and he stayed in cleveland. back to getting to fox news and the thick skin having an miss america and being used to that. i coined a phrase in the book you heard about from john that i say that i reached the bimbo

trifecta when i got to fox. on fox news host. i can joke about it because it doesn't take a rocket scientist that the labels have more to do with stereotypes than who i am and whether smart. i still try to figure out why being blonde was synonymous with being or attractive women are not smart, but i don't waste my brain cells trying to figure these things out. i learned sometimes some people don't like what you had to say and don't want to debate you on the smart ideas of the day it is easier to call you a bumb blonde from fox news. one of my greatest joys in life is my children. no matter how much effort chart for my career i always wanted to

have kids. another thing i share this book is my struggles with infertility and age 35 when i finally got the time is right in my career to start a family come and been told i a 3% chance and i remember the exact apartment in central park recalled by lana cried my eyes out and said he'd known how much i've always wanted to have kids. and that is sometimes a silent struggle that any couples have and i also wanted to share my husband and i struggle with that. we've been blessed miraculously with two children. i call it my miracle family in the book. what comes with that is this whole idea for women and men quite frankly about having it all. i say the book i think it's a bit of a curse. but the work inside the home or outside the home, let's face it, that's an expectation that the immense pressure on women and it ultimately makes us feel like

failures. here is what i say. these days there's an ongoing debate about whether women can have it all and i've been asked that question time and time again. the first time as the miss america pageant i was the only contestant who said no. i didn't mean women shouldn't fully pursue their dreams only that we need to be honest with ourselves. i'm a person who likes to give 100% to everything i do. i want to be the best of my job and asked my mom, but i realize they can only give 100% in the moment. if i'm at work by giving 100% to my kids? no. if i am at home and by giving 100% to fox? no. it is a balancing act but worthwhile as long as we don't kid ourselves that we are super women. my kids are still waking me.

they are 10 and 12 years old and i can tell by my son he my son he's so my son he still lets me kiss him on the lips when i say goodnight to him. i know that will change, will change, but right i relish in that. my daughter is 12 a little bit faster now. not that i've been away from home they like me a little bit more. i want to share with you some funny stories that i know we can all share if we are lucky enough to be parents and that's really all that matters. the most wonderful thing about children is their great curiosity complete honesty. i would love to capture those moments that you or they grow up and become guarded and stop sharing everything on their minds, even when the questions elicit chuckles or embarrassment on the part of the adult. like my daughter at three wood and our nightly purse with a man, looking confused and asking mommy, why at the end of our prayers to you always say old

men? [laughter] or my parents 50th anniversary my daughter asking grandma karen, my mom are you going to have any more babies? or my son christian at age observing that he not a woman at the pool had fake boobs. when asked him what he meant he explained i knew that they weren't real big house like yours when you bend over this fall the way down. [laughter] and hers when she bent over, they didn't move. [laughter] christian is always bursting with curiosity asking questions

we don't necessarily want to always and their like this time when he saw an ad during a baseball game and asked mommy, what is? -- viagra? [laughter] your hard work and perseverance and a bunch of pitfalls along the way, i have accomplished a great dreams and i just want to inspire everyone out there young, middle-aged or old but you are never too old to continue to challenge yourself and learn. i often see the best golfers in the world and the best tennis players than they are changing their swing. do you ever notice that? i ask myself why would they be doing that? they are number one in the sport. but they do it because they want to continue to be better.

and that is how i've lived my life and how i want to inspire others to the heirs. thank you so much for having me here tonight. it has been my great pleasure. [applause] >> we have a few minutes and gretchen has been kind enough to take some questions from the audience. if i could ask if you have a question to raise your hand and wait until the microphone get to you so we can hear what you have his say. if we could, we will start right over here. >> how did you get to fox? >> i just celebrated my 10 year anniversary with fox this past

week. [applause] i can always render that because i went when my son was three months old. when he turned 10 i am like oh yeah, 10 years. i was at cbs news in new york for five years before that. i started as a correspondent. i just ran into my old dos based morning at the local fox station. he's not the news director there. television is a tiny, tiny world. i got promoted at cbs to do this saturday morning early show and then my contract was up and i got a call from fox. they wanted to know if i was interested in potentially coming to do a five day a week new show fox and friends which i did for eight years and have a great opportunity to do my own show in the afternoon. that was my story that was the best move i've made. >> over here. no? okay. one over here.

>> a notice in your book that you said you and your family always enjoyed the traditional swedish food at the holidays. do you still keep them? >> oh yeah, you bet share. i am 100% swedish as i've mentioned and been 100% of anything, were so proud of that growing up in minnesota. the only bad thing was we had to eat at the food. less so was that they knew could stomach. do you know what it is? a potato pancake. it actually has no taste in the lather with butter and sugar and roll it up and that is how you can stomach. lutefisk is caught fish a

delicacy for people during christmas time. it is soaked in lye what you make soap out of. you get it at the butcher shop and you have to keep it in the garage when you bring it home because it stinks so bad and then you have to cook it in a tin foil pan because it blackens any nice. you might have. to give a general sense of the consistency and had no incentive. get a big slap on your plate and then douse it with either melted butter for this weight pc flu-like sauce. sounds great right? my grandfather would go to budapest in or so across minnesota defeated every single night. at its root like we really love this. this is fantastic. you finally develop an acquired taste for it. maybe wishes. pressure inside the family.

it was definitely something i'll never forget. >> over here. >> gretchen, since you are an insider at five i have a two-part question. part 8, argued that it come you guys across the board. everything you say is the check to see whether it's correct? >> you mean our newspapers? >> yeah, i'm sure they are. >> people say they don't tell the truth. part d -- [inaudible] >> i love juan williams. you now, he has a different point of view from the other commentators at fox yet he's the one guy on the side.

as far as the truth goes, that's been sentimental narrative in the book about the track is. you can't give all about the time of day because you just have to believe in yourself and what you're doing. no one is speaking in my earpiece telling me what to say in case anyone thinks that's what happened that rocks. all my questions and research, all my own ideas. i guess people have a different definition of the truth and that's their own personal objective to have that. i am telling people what i've learned and what i've read what i think. >> over here. >> i have two questions for you. one, in your experience of men or women than the ones that have given you a harder time and how do you understand that? the other thing is who have your true mentors spend.

>> a lot of time about the fact that women are not based women in the work place and i have to say i've been so fortunate to have amazing female role models model starting with my mother who now has 74 runs are a family business. i have a great role model in her firm he worked point of view and another point of view. i had great female bosses in the tv world had my first boss in richmond virginia made me the political reporter overnight. this is 25 26 years ago. i was one of deal that women covering the governor at the time. i had no idea what i was doing. she basically was a believer in the philosophy &-ampersand and she believed in me. it was influential in the building of confidence in what i was doing a television and believing in myself. another woman at the station

mars fired ended up going to work in dallas and she is the one who rehired me a year later at that job believed in me as well. i've also had fantastic mailboxes, one who just ran into early this morning. as far as mentors, definitely those women and men who are my bosses but most importantly i believe so strongly now it needs a mentor to young people because i had help along the way. my assistant today was my intern on fox and friends and share the same hard work ethic i did i said i'm hiring you. i am a huge believer in helping young people and directing them and giving them advice and i always say quite literally my door is open. >> right appear in the front.

>> hi, gretchen. i'm honored to be here and listen to you. socially and physically when you consider yourself on the spectrum? >> i actually say in the book so it's not a big surprise and a registered independent and so is my husband. i think even the news business, you have to be bad. so i do see issues from both sides of the spectrum. i don't know if it is a gender thing but i have a sneaking suspicion that some women lose more and trying to find some common ground, some things we can work out. it bugs me they don't get anything done on capitol hill but that is because i am a doer. some people say we don't want them to get this done because we don't agree with the things they might get done. ronald reagan got things done. he found a way to get things

done and find some compromise. i think we have great leaders we should look back on and maybe model what they did because washington is really broken right now and it doesn't serve any of us cared for by the way don't like any of them. polls show they have a 13% approval rating. if we actually did get some things done in a bipartisan way we would have a better feeling about her country in general. just my personal opinion. the >> hello. we were wondering when you told your counselor you live in stamford, when he joined up going back to school? >> thank you for asking. it was so important to get my degree and i did have opportunities for i would not have gone back and not listening to an option for me. the greatest joy in my life from the scholarship and what money i want is being able to call my pairings with four kids in

college and say mom dad, i am paying for the rest of a stanford education. i graduated with my freshman because i'd been gone that long after being gone and sometimes after. getting my degree was an automatic. >> right over here. >> hi, gretchen. i'm from minnesota as well. the >> wow, you really know what cold is. it's the icebox of the nation. >> wonderful. congratulations to all of you. the >> my question was am a concert pianist actually so i've been playing the symphonies and i was wondering how you balance the life of being been a musician transitioning a college area.

>> i didn't play in college. that was during my quitting phase. funny story of the book as i went to stand for. i brought my violin but i left it in the entire time. i went to the violin teacher at stanford who also conducted the orchestra and of course he never heard about me because i was trying to be anonymous. technically difficult passage and i can still see the look on his face. he was like why have i not heard of view. i said because that's the way i wanted to be made that the violin violin back in the locker and never played it for four years. >> over here. the >> hi, gretchen. you are here on the west coast at 11:00 in the morning and after i drop off my children with me today do some work

around the house come of bills whatever. i get to watch you and feel like you are just bit me in the house and wanted to know if the format of your show this year in september if there'll be any changes, different times. the >> you know something i don't? [laughter] >> that's my question. the >> i don't know about any potential changes. we are always changing the format. it's another big lesson of life. always trying to prove yourself. some of the things we've tried haven't necessarily work out. one thing i started incorporating a year ago now was the one minute take i do every day for a story that i feel particularly passionate about whether it's politics or cultural or family or kids or graduation speeches that i would give my take of the day.

i think we will stick with that. you never know. that would give so much of the political season. yesterday i had donald trump is fantastic timing because he was controversially yesterday. so we broke the news yesterday which is the exciting part of doing the news business every day that it changes everyday. if you want to test job don't get into tv because sometimes we plan an entire show is so much work and effort and then we have solid breaking news and everything goes out the window and you have to be able to go with it and often times talk about stuff you don't know that much about. i think i will still be at 2:00 for the next couple months. >> over here. >> are there any specific point you have given your children about perceptions you'd like to

share? >> yeah, just the whole idea of building their souls and their insight. for example, i never told my daughter as miss america. somebody else finally did and she was eight years old. i was waiting as long as i possibly could because i didn't want her to have somewhere to reception of what that was her feel inadequate or that was something she had to have pain. she came home from school and that mommy comes somebody at school told me you didn't come america thing. i said yet what else did they say. so then she wanted to see everything in my closet. i have my gown. solid ease with more than 10 pounds in a shoebox because you can't hang it up because it's too heavy. at my 25th anniversary of

miss america at this harebrained idea five days before it give a big speech. maybe i could get my big toe into that thing. i call that the designer who made the dress and we are still friends. i fed you think i could wear that thing in there instead silent on the other end of the phone. i like why the silence. he goes there is something called spinks now. so i imagine that this special shop on broadway of all places for all the actors going to put a bunch of contraptions on and i got the darn things that death and when we opened the gate is my gosh you're boobs look amazing. yeah i've had two kids. so that's a roundabout way of saying i want my kids to build their self-esteem from playing the piano and practicing sports and doing well in academic life

and going to church and figuring who they are and the inside first. >> over here. >> hi, gretchen. du mass -- [inaudible] >> my work has been. i still do radio once a week on tuesdays and so i see him frequently. i actually got down to the same area. where fox business and we keep growing but i still go to the same studio area to get my hair done in the morning so i see them at a later hour. i used to joke that i saw them more than i saw my rail has been because i did. three times five, 15 hours a week. i messed up but i don't miss the three alarms at 3:30 a.m.

my kids love my new schedule and electing to care about with monica mckinney sun-times drivers to school now? >> over here. >> hi, gretchen. you are an aspiration. my question is the news is so her madness today does that of arafat what you have to report on what you actually witnessed? thank you. >> it does and i have to be sensitive because of the small children at home is realized through their eyes how bad the news says because sometimes when avedon, especially my 10-year-old will say when you turn on us i hear that. i have to be very sensitive to how much i'm paying attention to the news when i am home. i would tell you a horrible story in connecticut where he lived in newtown, connecticut two and a half years ago and how

that story has turned into a positive for our family. my daughter in the book is a piano recital at nine years old 11 classical pieces. she told me i only want to do it if i can help people. this was right after the shooting fancy research and found out there was a little girl whose family had set up a charity for the arts and she said do you think any of the kids who passed away that day loved animals because she loves animals. lo and behold we found that another charity was being sent to the animal sanctuary in newtown. my daughter gave this piano recital and raise $10,000 for them. so we took this horrible tragedy. i have to tell you is my proudest moment as a parent watching this recital because those. came to the recital and watched my daughter play the piano and

now she serves on the advisory board for that animal sanctuary. she is learning firsthand about what it means to give back. [applause] >> we have time for one last question. we will come right back here. >> gretchen, thank you so much for what you're doing. we are so needed to remind about the dream let's go do it again like ronald reagan did. the question i have today is could you please share how your faith in god has played to who you are today. >> it is everything. and one of the few acres he speaks openly about my faith on the air and i have a lot of critics. it started happening when i came to fox because cable in and of itself is more ad lib. and we are on 24/7.

i felt comfortable talking about it one day on fox and friends and i realized the reaction i got from people who i might be down the street was nine times out of 10 they would say to me thank you so much for speaking about the foundation for which you were brought up in your faith in the way you choose to live your life in the values. so i figured i was doing something right. [applause] luckily i grew up with a grandfather who was a minister and going to church was like being a rock star at the pulpit. i feel blessed that my parents made those decisions early on and as an adult i've continued with those decisions. i joke now that the judge who called me a god slugger back then, what would he now with he knew my husband and i teach sunday school together. that is the one hour every week that i know i will see my house then. i think it is the greatest gift

you can give children which is the last that much is expected and that is teaching children how to give back. thank you so much. [applause] >> i am reading a lot of legislation really cuts in the

right time for pleasure reading. i've been able to start a couple books. decision point a boat is george bush and george bush and the eisenhower biography i picked up at the library of congress. i haven't been able to make it through either one of those yet. i recently finished a great book called fearless and one of the great things i really like is that it's about a young man from my hometown and arkansas navy seal team six. he had his eye damaged. this is great story not only about a war hero but who overcame personal tragedies and addictions and the motivational story unfortunately adam brown was killed on st. patrick's day in 2010 in afghanistan. he was on his last mission and left a widow is too small children behind.

it's a great book i highly recommend. i've been told it's going to be made into a movie and i can't wait to see that. >> "vanity fair" special correspondent ryan burrough appeared at the "chicago tribune" printers row that fast to this past history of america's radical underground. it begins now on booktv. ..