privilege to introduce lo -- lorenzo medina. he's an amazing scholar who has looked terrorism issues. he not only studied in the united states but also overseas. i think it is absolutely critical to be able to learn lessons from others and be able to share best practices to make share that all of our countries better address these issues. so thrilled to have lorenzo with us. we are also able to lure away deputy who has done phenomenal work in this case. lorenzo is going to give a quick snapshot in terms of u.s. challenges, whatever is we need to think about. following lorenzo i have the

privilege of welcoming a friend of mind peter who has done ground breaking work in fighting challenge in the u.k. he has been directing for how long peter? >> seven years. >> seven years. he's been one of the go-to guys on all things national security, terrorism, he has done phenomenal research. last but not least delighted to welcome fernando who is from spain, he's done tons of policy related in terms not only foreign fighter phenomena in spain but also more generally speaking counterterrorism.

bottom line you're not going to get better scholar pra -- >> thank you very much, frank. it's a pleasure. thank you. this is a wonderful turnout. we have reluctant to have an event on a friday morning. almost august. peter was more optimistic about the turnout. the star power from fernando helped us to have a wonderful turnout. thank you very much for coming. the first that the program has had the pleasure to direct here and the center of homeland security here. on such an important topic

wonderful colleagues and/or personal friends. it's really important for us. thank you for coming here. we're here to discuss the dynamic that's affecting every country. resident going to syria iraq, at this point going to libya and other places to join isis. frankly this is not a new phenomena, but the numbers are the big difference. if you look at it from comparative point, the numbers are arguably the first big difference between the two sides of the ocean. european numbers or foreign fighters, of course, the problems in really determining

the numbers and finding finding the correct numberses try to go determine that but obviously it is extremely complicated efforts. law enforcement agencies have a problem doing that. europeance are much, much larger. if we're looking at european setting, 1200 individuals. even smaller countries like bell bell -- belgium. these are the numbers given from the government, fbi. 200 individuals traveled or attempted to travel to syria.

we're talking about a much smaller number. people went and fought there. the 200 number should be reduced. here in the u.s. very legal tools and attitude from law enforcement which is for aggressive than in most european countries. a lot of very effective tactics that the fbi uses and not really used in europe. i would probably suspect that if any european law enforcement agency were to use tactics the number of peoples they arrest would be completely different. why are the numbers so different between europe and the u.s.? i don't think there's just one explanation. it's a combination of factors. first time is logistic

difficulties. from europe it's easy to reach turkey and syria. it takes 100 euros. it is slightly more complicated and more expensive from the united states. there's a second reason, it has to do with the fact that in the u.s. we do not see recruiting networks like in europe. i think in europe we have significantly more accomplished and sophisticated structures of recruiting networks that do not exist in the united states and even though the internet, social media to some agree substitute. a lot of people would agree that it doesn't complete the

face-to-face interaction. it does happen in some cases. in the majority of cases you join isis because you have some personal connection to somebody that has personal connections there. there's a third reason which is more on a macro level very different levels between european and american muslim communities. i do not want to overstate the problem, when we see analysis, environment, i think the analysis of the social situation in the muslim community and radicalization were exaggerated. there are problems in europe that are significantly higher than in the united states. we do not see in the united states the groups all these

groups that have been instrumental in european setting in radicalizing, mobilizing a lot of people in syria. we do not see them in the united states. i would argue there are a lot of differences in terms of dynamics between the two sides of the ocean. in europe, i'm generalizing, i think we see a lot of clusters and a lot of peer-to-peer radicalization. the online propaganda has a huge role to play here. but the personal relations that people have are unquestionable. they leave for syria to iraq. if you look at maps where individuals go to syria and iraq from different european

countries come from, you can see that they are not eachly divided from any country. they come from certain towns and certain cities and certain cities in both cities. generally a human factor there a connection, two or three guys will go first then they call friends, cousins class mates yes, they talk through them to social media. it's personal connection that predates the contact on social media. it's a different dynamic from the united states. you see more scattered individuals here and there less cluster. in the united states on one hand we do see quite case where individuals have no fiscal

connection. they radicalize online. some of the journalistic reports, excellent new york article about this girl in rural washington state clearly no human, no personal interaction with any cluster but we do see in the united states several cases of small clusters, not on the size of what we see in europe but we see groups of people that radicalize together and mobilize together. there's been attention as frank was saying, the problem dates back to 2006, 2007.

but small clusters throughout the country have been dismantelled. bosnia. recently in the last few weeks a group of young individuals in the new york and jersey area and smaller group in boston area, group of asians. i think it's a misconception to just see the american foreign fighter seen as scattered individuals here and there. it is indeed more difficult to travel to syria and we do not see the clusters in the u.s.

that's one of the reason that is explains why in the states we are seeing compare today europe the proportion of alone actors, attacks. for example garland. but also other acts which are difficult to characterize. it's difficult to find a clear footprint. i'm thinking about chattanooga the attack in new york, beheading in oklahoma. very strange cases, very difficult to categorize.

one could argue that a lot of the individuals in europe would find it much easier to mobilize in syria or iraq. here they do not find that outlet that easy and might basically let their anger radicalization out in a different way. the final point, i'm going to wrap it up here the most interesting part is the q. and a. part here. on both sides particularly on the european side there's been a strengthening of the terrorism spectrum. i would argue in some european countries major efforts have been made. so if the europeans tell they

need to catch up or be harder in traditional counterterrorism side of things, on the u.s. perspective where there is a legal framework that is generally speaking much tougher than in most european countries what has been lacking on the u.s. side is the cv part of things. the softer side of the spectrum. it is increasingly seen not just in europe and in the united states. we have been focusing on this aspect. we issued a report when we launched last june about status and counterviolence in america. basically what we argue that the united states lack behind for a

variety of reasons. there's a strategy but poorly implemented, severely underfunded. and it is clear and this is something that was said in testimony before country by a variety of top law enforcement officials we cannot arrest our way out of this problem. and there are cases in which it's very difficult to operate with a traditional law enforcement tools. in some cases are inadequate. i'm thinking about the increasing number of minors that are involved for mobilizing. there's a lack of evidence in many cases. i'm thinking about all the cases of foreign fighters.

this is a european fighter and also american fighters. it's clear from an intelligence point of view that that person went to syria and did not go there to do sightseeing. it's much more difficult. we've seen cases request it was very difficult. one case was interesting. went to fight in syria was with isis, but there was no evidence to charge him with. he came back to the united states. no evidence to charge him with. he was approached to the traditional fbi and convinced to join al qaeda. somebody that was not arrested because of what he did fighting in syria but what he was planning on doing, which is going to pakistán to join al qaeda. in that case it worked out.

the system in one way or the other worked. it's clear that in some cases there's a problem with evidence for returning foreign fighters. it's not the silver bullet. it's obviously something that in the united states it needs to be strengthen. there's probably more tangible resources to be put there. >> thank you, thank you lorenzo, one of the things peter and fernando, i hope you pick up on returning foreign fighter is an issue. can you turn some of them around to be defectors and be part of the counternarrative? they should also be criminally

prosecuted and if there are nay lessons the u.s. can learn from that. >> i'm very happy to be here. the reason i'm talking about this is that my team and i discovered two and a half years ago that brits were going to syria. not only were they doing that they went there and maintained their online social media profiles, that he maintained instagram and became possible to follow them. we found them exciting and interesting. they were posting dairies from a battlefield. we started broadening that out. we do have a database containing 700 online social media profiles of fighters in syria iraq. we have communicated with

hundred of them and done field work with syria. we have a pretty xrens -- comprehensive idea. on the number size, lorenzo is absolutely right. this is a phenomena that exceeds and surpasses what we have seen before n. the case of europe which represents about 20% of the overall foreign fighter population syria iraq, approximately 4 to 5,000 people. if you look at the distribution of foreign fighters across europe countries, of course, the largest european countries are

producing the greatest numbers. it's particularly the smaller countries that are affected, denmark, holland sweden. there are really three points that i want to talk about. the first is motivation, the second is the idea of online recruitment and thirdly i want to hit on what frank has asked me to talk about. first on the motivation. it's very important that there's no foorn -- there's a number of motivations. the people who went to syria and iraq in 2012, early 2013 were not necessary all committed extremists. they all had a very strong

muslim identitity. they went there because they fared that what was going on in syria was essentially op population of syria carried out by con spir -- they were being told that if being muslim, you now have to come and defend brothers and sisters. we are on our own and we need you now. that was the print -- principial recruitment policy. you will see throughout history movements. the threat has been a great mobilizer. however, of course, in 2013-14

the narrative shifted. a second peak of recruit meant happened about a year ago in the summer of 2014 when the islamic state declared and military successes which motivated people. they were thinking it is coming now. it is real, we have to go there and be part of it. that second way of recruits arguably was more extreme in orientation. in addition to that what we have also seen that since last year, since about august, the start of the campaign, we have seen a reemerge of the west versus islam narrative that had not been that dominant even a year

ago when we were doing field work. you almost had to remind them that they were also hating the united states and it's western allies which was ironic experience for someone that has been interviewing these people for 10-15 years. also in what lorenzo said that specially for europeance geographical makes it easier to travel. it has been very easy for them to cross the border from turkey into syria. i can tell you, we were going field work there in april 2014 in border towns every taxi driver could tell you where the foreign fighters were staying

praying. there are three to four uniform shops. they ask you what group you're with. you say isis, he gives you isis uniform. all this was happening in the open. they were not wanting to crack down out of fare that there maybe a retaliation against them. i hope something is changing about this now. my fare is that the infrastructure of these group is so embedded within that sanctuary that it becomes very, very hard for the turks to really do something about this in a substantive way. my second point is object online recruitment. online recruitment is something that has featured. we know they have a massive soirr -- social media.

really the online recruitment aspect is not the most important one. what's new about what isis is doing online? well, it's not the slick videos. we had videos for many, many years. it's not the beheadings. we had beheadings ten years ago. what is news is, in fact, something that's not directly orchestrated. it's something that's more organic and comes from the bottom up. what is new and that is a fact that is often neglected and forgotten, it's possible for wanna-be fighters to talk to actual fighters on the ground in the battle zone. that's in our experience and observation the most powerful aspect of social media.

that guy from alabama who was going to somalia and had joined. i think four or five years there was excitement. he would tweet back to you. that was a complete novelty at the time. right now 600 700 800 talking to people in paris landon everyday. it is their output that gets people most excited. it's easy to see why. the bottom line is that the personal communications from isis make it personal for the wanna-be recruits. on the one hand, they create identification. imagine you are a 20-year-old muslim in a deprived suburb of

paris and you know that you don't really have lots of opportunities in french societies. you look at the pictures of fighters with guns amongst the brothers heros in that new society. you look at the picture and what do you see, you see yourself someone like yourself, you see someone who is now a hero in that society who is incredibly successful and admired yet who six months ago was someone exactly like you with no prospects in european society with no hope and probably a life of petty crimes ahead of himself, and that is an incredibly powerful moment when people see pictures and start identifying and communicate with these people. it makes it personal because it creates personal ties.

it requires a lot of personal ties. the more risky t -- the more dangerous, the more ties developed to get the commitment loyalty and create social obligation. speaking to a fighter enables exactly that. if you speak to a fighter almost everyday, you develop trust he makes time for you you feel honored that he makes so much time for you. now you have to come over. it's completely different from watching a video from a unanimous person saying, i want you to come over. they extend, for example what lorenzo said. if it was all about the internet, that wouldn't make sense at all because the internet is everywhere. if it was all about the

internet the distribution of cases would be equal. in fact, we do see recruitment from small towns. that's not because of the internet, you have groups of people who went to school together. you have one or two of them going over staying in touch with the people who are still back home and bringing over the rest. that is being replicated everywhere in europe you find the same pattern. it is not the internet -- >> for american viewers not football. >> the actual football. [laughs]

>> my final point that's really important that we get this right. when i gave you the numbers at the beginning i should say, you know, these are not numbers for people currently on the ground. these are figures for everyone that has gone for the past three and a half years. 10% of the people are dead. they have died in battled. 25-40% of the numbers that i talked about 25-40% depending on the country have already returned to their european home countries. so the current foreign-fighter population of britain is not 700. 700 is for the last three and a half years on the ground in syria and iran. are probably right now 200-250. 250 have already returned to the

country. the question is, of course, what to do with them. in our observation again, this is informed by our research on this issue, there are three print -- principial groups. i call them the 3ds. have been brut -- brutalize in syria. they may pose a risk even if they are not necessarily part. then there are the so-called dangerous. those are the people who are coming back established with military training, international networks and motivation to carry out attacks in the west. the percentage for that will be

25%. the third group are the so called disillusions. it is important to keep in mind what i said in the beginning. a lot of people, specially at the beginning thought they were joining a different kind of conflict. a lot of people have become disillusioned of how the conflict has turned out. a lot of people also went there long before the islamic faith was established and these people right now are probably dominating amongst the people who are -- have returned to european countries. there need to be options other than going to prison for 20, 30, 40 years. my colleague has been forthright in pushing reintegration groups for people who believe they made

a mistake and have not committed major crimes. it is something that can be very tough but it actually allows for reintegration. you have three gowms. -- groups. right now the large group undecided. a lot of people have returned. it is unclear what they will do in long-term. this shouldn't surprise us. this is my final remark. this will play out over long period of time. you have to accept that this will be a threat at president obama said, that will be with us for probably a generation to

come. 911 happened in 2001, it can be traced back in in the 1990 in afghanistan. osama bin laden started out as a foreign fighter. he had not decided yet, i will become the international terrorist. it took him a few years to figure out. he had not exactly figured out the game plan for the next 10-20 years in 1989. so i think it is the same for a will the of the foreign fighters who have now returned to foreign countries. they haven't decided what they are going to do but they are keeping their options open. the final final remark a huge problem for european countries

is precisely what lorenzo pointed out they are completely overwhelmed from the numbers of people that have come back and they are amongst the most strongest advocates because they say a pure response is not going to be able to do the trick they cannot build the capacity in order to deal with this. it is not about being nice to terrorist, it is essential to enable the security authorities to do their job and to do it right. >> thank you. a lot of items you raised warrant goodies -- good

discussions among the panel. so, thank you. >> thank you very much. yes, i will say something, i will provide some data with respect to the case of spain but also a few commands complementing those who already made -- first of all, thank you very much for having me here today on behalf of myself and also on behalf the institution we work on this particular issues. it is not just a pleasure to join you frank and peter but

also today -- an opportunity to congratulate the george washington university for having you and you and you for leading this new program here. now the year before it all started in syria the year 2020, the number of muslims in the world was estimated at 1,600,000,000. one thousand 600 -- 1.6 billion you say here in the u.s. around -- around 20 million who are living in the western europe that means 1.25% 1.25%

and yet -- i'm using the data provided by institute early this year. it can be easily updated. 40,000 individuals nationals residing in western europe made the trip or try today make -- tried to make the trip to syria and iraq. that means that on the one hand we have about 20% of europe europeans among all those who mobilize foorn fighters -- foreign fighters in syria and iraq. on the other hand, that figure means that europeans are at

least 16 times overrepresented among foreign fighters with respect to those coming from other regions in the world. so to some extent we have come just to our problem they're in syria and iraq. a problem inside within europe. it's connected with accommodation of muslims in our societies. it is easy to reach the middle east from western europe, but it is not that difficult from northern áfrica or countries in middle east.

this overrepresentation of european. we -- the phenomenon is just by one. i prefer to -- i prefer -- i prefer to use the term mobilization which included the phenomena to fighters of those who have been radicalized in our society because of iran and syria conflict including individuals arrested today and so and and so forth. it is part of the amazing extraordinary presented phenomena which is taking place now in western europe since

2011. now, western europe is not uniformly affected. the biggest countries are not providing contingent of foreign fighters, nor it is true that those european countries having a larger proportions of muslim muslims. two european member states where you have the largest proportion of muslims with respect to population. turkish population. those communities -- we don't

have a problem with those. where is it that we have a problem? we have a problem mainly in germany, netherlands u.k., finland. so -- i didn't mention italy, i didn't mention spain. big countries. large contingents. what is it that those countries i just mentioned outside of spain and italy? what is it that they have income of our interest for our analysis today? what those countries have in common different is that the

vast majority of muslims in the country are second generations. in my country lorenzo's country of origin -- i would say milan but he's not fan of milan. i went to see this match and he was happy about milan losing the game. [laughs] >> sorry about that. this is private information. [laughs] >> so those countries -- those countries had populations made out basically of second generations. not the case in spain.

second generation are now emerging. just now. nothing to do with the other countries. so this is a very important issue to take into account and if we -- if we connect this fact -- by the way how interesting this association between mobilization and second generations can't even be corroborated in the case of spain. you say spain is not amongst those countries more affected, but having a look at the over

100 individuals arrested since 2012 in connections with radicalizing and recruitment networks related to the syria syria/iraq conflict, we find that more than half are spanish spaniards. this is a sharp contrast with the previous period between 1996 and 2012 where the numbers of individuals born in spain and completed offenses was less than 5%. now it's over half. you know 77% of all those coming from the only two cities in spain where we have accessible, a large muslim community made out of mainly second

generations. the two spanish in northern áfrica surrounded by moroccan territory. this is an interesting issue. of course, what we see now in spain and it's a particular interest i recently read a precious article from lorenzo where the hype -- you don't have the data yet of all the individuals to be more precise. even in the case there was only

one individual. all the others were individuals who came to spain when they were over 21. that was -- when europe was expecting a big one that we got came from not home ground. now, if we -- if we have this in mind this association between mobilization and second generations and at the same time -- at the same time we -- we pay attention to the remarkable diversity of social economic backgrounds among those foreign fighters from europe, those who

have been arrested in european countries over the past years, i mean they are from all economic backgrounds. when we use national data, what differences tend to show, simply differences with respect to the place, the muslim communities have in the socialism structure. france is not the same at the united kingdom. even in the case of spain, we have among all those, we have university colleges, individuals who are businessmen own small business. it's not that they were marginal

people excluded and came and decided to have a better life in this new society. this is not as simple as that. specially the -- the evolution of this phenomena as we can see in the case of spain foreign transformation taking place in european union countries where the second generation is now emerging, is now emerging. see, for instance, in spain we had no single woman for offenses. now after 2013, 13.5% of those

arrested were women. in the previous period the vast majority of individuals were arrested at the age between 25-39. now between 20-34. and more interesting perhaps between 1996 and 2012 in spain we only have 1.5% cases of convert among all those convicted for offenses. now we have -- now we have 13% of comforts among all those over 100 individuals are arrested in connection with radicalization and recruitment network linked to syria and iraq.

so what all this is suggesting, this connection with the second generation diversity, without this we cannot explain things of a social position or educational level, but we still have a particular issue with problems where second generation are predominant. we have -- we have a generalized identity conflict affecting important of second generation muslim people living in europe and it is known how migrant dye

can he -- can be in a situation where that more likely are not information of ambiguous identities. in the cases of -- we resolve this conflict depends on the background. it is within those -- that frame available are provided to the individual but those muslims having this identity conflict, see as one possible way out

offer of muslim identity. and this offer when coming from al qaeda or coming is associated violence and identity. it is not only making muslim identity an exclusive one, also violence can identity. when you interview them, well, you know, i wasn't feeling part of france. i was born there my brought me to italy when i was 10 but i wasn't feeling french or italian . i was affectively tied to the country that my parents came

from pakistán, and one day this man came to my circle. this is the problem. i spoke to someone who told me, you -- your nation is not france your nation is islam. the nation of islam is not -- is not promoted nowadays nor by a single state. it's promoted worldwide for the media the islamic state and al qaeda. al qaeda is asking people, just come to join us in the underground to become a member of the organization who is

facing difficulties, maybe you think about come to go -- coming to german. come and join us. you want to fight do so. you want to join our hospitals. come to join our new society. so we have a problem with these people. these people odd balance and societies. families are often -- the -- we

speak about schools, they are all families. it is provided to these people to solve the conflict between the -- the identity that the parents, particularly the father tries to maintain within the family and the norms outside the house, at the school, university with po groups and so on. >> fernando, i hate to do this but i want to ensure we have time -- >> i just -- my very last point. critical important one. a lot of people are now speaking about the social media the actors. i'm going to give you data concerning all individuals arrested in spain as of 2012 for

involvement with radicalization and recruitment linked to syria and iraq. 90.3% of all of them initiated the process in the company of others and completed the process throughout a series of stages involving face-to-face interaction. it is often the case that they change the living place to complete the process. so lone actors are less than 10%. in six out of every ten cases they became evolved in a network

which was activated by individuals were in guantánamo or who were charged but not convicted or -- or the police known that there was no evidence with the legislation in those days, not with the legislation we have now. in those days it was not an offense to go to afghanistan to be trained by al qaeda. this is not an offense. many my country it is now an offense to -- to be a foreign fighter. and not all the european members are equally aggressive. some cases just spain or italy for that matter, the security

forces are more aggressive. how long did it took to consider that they had a huge problem? it's offered in the most recent report. my very last point is maybe instead of thinking that all that much about isis, we have to think about actions to make sure to facilitate muslims in europe to understand that their identity as muslims is compatible with other identities, whatever the case. in that case we have to counter the islamic state but we also

have to counter the narrative. those are not allowed groups, but the challenge they post in our societies about different kind than the violent one in my opinion fur -- >> fernando, thank you very much. i think you left with an important point. ..

the adversaries narrative and whereas i may be a little more hawkish i almost feel like we've got to go to negative political campaigning rather than propagating a little good i would like to get to what we think some of the solutions that i appeared lorenzo, i don't want to disagree with your point because you are doing phenomenal research or u.s. numbers are heading in a tempo at any other time since 9/11. we are talking 60 individuals plotting attacks on the united

states are attempting to travel overseas with isis or its ilk other grd organizations. you are seeing we sometimes over contemplate matters with group to group in terms of facilitation. again it's the narrative. 16 may seem small number but it did members had highest be seen in some time. i would be curious what our group thinks in terms of prescribing solutions. how do we take this from understanding the challenge, how do we learn, for example they've done about 180 degrees in terms of how they were addressing these issues in terms of what we refer to as countering violent extremism, whatever you want to refer to

it. what lessons can we be cleaning right here? there is a big difference between enabling law-enforcement and ensuring they have the tools to get the job done and they need those tools but that's reactive, so what are some of the steps we can take to get out of the curve? we will start with you lorenzo, and then go back to peter. i will then open it up because at the end of the day even if the group doesn't espouse violence but the underpinnings and stories the same ownership to be addressing those? >> a very complex issue with the different aspects from a more logistical approach to a more ideological approach, obviously the solutions come -- are

equally complex and diverse. we touched upon the lot of them. there's the big picture geopolitical aspect in peter touched on it with his not so debbie mayfield criticism and that has been the enabling it. if you look at 2012 2013 people wanted to go fight jihads. they were still debating amalia, molly packet and a mysterious so easily. there is a lot of symbolism strategically located in the muslim world like somalia and so one. there is a geopolitical piece they are and the complexity of solving the conflict which is crucial. we touched upon the second aspect which is capacity building and obviously peter was saying it's an issue and the

smaller countries in belgium and the netherlands a small law-enforcement agencies, some case a nonexistent. in larger countries it's a matter of capacity. when the french government introduced a series of solution some of them were politically motivated. i think there was one those very to the point which was higher in almost 3000 agents to string in the law-enforcement intelligence of what is already one of the largest counterterrorism forces in europe in the western world which is france. it's a matter of capacity building. the dynamic after every single attack in non-western countries as the perpetrators were known to long for us then.

to every single in fact is the person is known but there's obviously legal issues be known as radical anti-western and liberal society that you have two make a judgment call has to do is a tier one, tier two and tier three subject and that's what happened in paris. at some point they would deem after three years one from use like in yemen not a priority anymore. manpower is what it is. we have to put resources to other cases in there for obviously both judgment calls are difficult to make is very unfair to put the burden of law enforcement in the resources so that's the second most important thing. there is the aspect i mentioned

discussing the importance of both measures even when there's a variety of reasons whether we're talking about communication or the one-on-one intervention but are now being called offramp for an intervention in a european setting. what do you do at the 18-year-old radicalized as? you can also have traditional month for us meant was something introducing a subject in the equation that is a mentor they can try to dissuade the person away from the trajectory seems to be having embarked on. there is also a very complex that everybody gives it a meaning different for the next

person. there's a part that becomes narrative. whether we talk about creating a positive narrative of what we stand for more than narrative that i don't think it's an either/or proposition . both work well together and undermine a positive than negative way. i think we all touched upon the argument of the known violent extremism which would be to move music and in the u.k. we have seen a major shift from 10 years ago been seen as almost part of the solution to the brotherhood groups and so on these days they're saying that larger parts of the problem. that's a major shift we should prevent. >> awesome, peter. if i can ask our panel to be as brief as they can simply because

i want to make sure we have time for the audience to ask questions as well. >> here is the bucket list. i thought that needed are outlined in the u.n. security council resolution 178 which i had the privilege to work on. those are mostly punitive measures which are necessary. it's also about information exchange. what i want to perhaps expand on a little bit is the cd aspect is a couple things. of course you need to have a lot of projects and smaller things that need to be done -com,-com ma reintegration programs which exist in european countries but are often underfunded intervention programs, reintegration programs. in every country there should be

a hot fine parents can call that is not answered by the police. 99% of parents do not want their kids to go to syria and died. but they often not calling the police because as much as they don't want their kids to die they also don't want them to go to prison for 20 years said they do crazy things to prevent their kids from going, often the wrong things things that prompt them to go. it would be useful to have the case untranslatable people get the best professional advice without immediately causing a security issue. that would be one thing that could be done. we need to work not necessarily on creating more government led top-down narratives on the internet. that is a drop in the bucket if we do four times that it will be for drops in the bucket. we have to think about how we

can galvanize a grass-roots bottom-up movement that confronts a grass-roots bottom-up movement that is the islamic state. also this gets me to the final two points. support must counter narratives are, it is essentially pr. there are substantial issues underlying this phenomenon. the first issue is the islamic state for a long time seem to be winning. one of my colleagues once told me the secret of their success is their success as long as the islamic state seems to be representing some new caliphate people will be excited about it. for the past few months the islamic state has not been able to expand its territory as much as last summer has had effect on recruitment and events on the

ground to influence perception by people thinking about going. the other aspect hinted that by fernando is in europe the unfortunate truth that i need to talk to my european compatriocompatrio ts as we have not been successful in establishing inclusive national agencies in the way it is possible to be a hyphenated american and be perfectly content and happy being part of the nation and committed and loyal to the nation yet at the same time proud of their ethnic and religious origins and identity. i don't think we have succeeded in that and much more needs to happen for both sides. a willingness to integrate by minorities but also the majority population and offer to be

accepted into european society which is not always the case. it is precisely the lack of longing that facilitates inclusion in jihadist movements but also travel abroad. that also needs to go. >> thank you peter. one point i want to recognize, carry the mac who was weeping families of 9/11 did a number of documentaries that have a significant role ironically on zarqawi himself in terms of the attack on the jordanian wedding and that is the thing we need to multiply the thank you for joining us. briefly because i want to make sure we have time for questions. >> following what he just said

from the recent issue, the islamic state magazine and they have the editorial saying the revival of the caliphate if each individual muslim to satisfy a desire for belonging. they know what is it they have to do when thinking about it. absolutely i agree with this nonpolice hotline. absolutely. in the cases i know the families end up calling the police when they are already on

their way to steer yet in iraq. we have a stigma to do this before. so the nonpolice line is a great idea in my opinion. it should be part of a security approach that has to be adopted and has to be complemented with effect of international cooperation. the country which now in this respect needs a strong cooperation with france and morocco and it's never been so good to the point that when the moroccan authorities have -- if

they think that there might be a direct or indirect spanish connection and the head of the branch grows to rabat and joins the command at the moroccan police to follow and to be the very first moment of what is going on. not all countries -- within the union they might complain more about the cooperation.

in cooperation with morocco because they have the same legal framework and that creates trouble. >> i've been unfair to you but i want to make sure the audience -- one thing i want to table because it is important. i think we do need to think creatively about some of these initiatives. the flipside is there is a long and order and a deterrent effect. the old saying don't do the crime if you can't do the time. at the end of the day we've got to think creatively recognized terrorist act to be in the u.s. the case in boston were a police officer turned in his own son which must be one of the most difficult dilemmas to go through. i've got lots of hands here.

please identify yourself and we'll try to wrap them and do them into a lightning round. we will do three or four questions. here there. favoritism. bear and bear. please identify yourself. [inaudible] >> i'm a retired naval intelligence officer and while i am all for effect to be said the military law enforcement there is another dimension that i haven't heard mentioned here particularly diplomacy involving the countries that are mostly involved with problems. this could be generalized that

turkey is almost all muscle and has sudanese and she has. the turks know muslim identity is probably better than anybody else. in any other country including ours with port security and self-defense and just in the past week they have increased the security and what we have not heard if any mention between our groups. >> that's a great question. we talk a lot about that in terms of u.s. e.u. expanding beyond not but i would suggest they have brought up the nato obligations but that is a great

question and i would like to hear what others think here. jerome. we will do this quickly. if you can wait will save the questions until the end. >> park nicholson particularly the strange case of germany which has had only one thing you can attack several years ago. whether that is a fluke or something we should consider. >> in the ij ukase in the past who had a question they are. >> my question is notwithstanding your accurate statement about not eating pork government initiatives. the delay huge role for

government. looking at the u.s. government in particular, how can the u.s. government have a spontaneous community uprising towards the better good as far as countering what has been discussed? >> one more here and then we'll have to wrap it up. >> thank you. thank you. ron taylor, senior fellow here at the franklin center. my question is my question is the way you describe it to so many good solutions. you had the ability to take effect solutions.

he talked about grassroots and peter your suggestion was a lot about will grassroots. today with the situation in greece and with the e.u. can you muster to take on something like this and can you muster the money and how is the situation with muslims migrating from the different countries for us into the mediterranean coastal states in great numbers particularly picking up. i'm going to say the dynamic. >> the tyranny of time require it be a tyrant. this is like enron. starting with you, peter, then the rents out and then fernando. i promised to get us out of here in three minutes. >> i think because of that i'm only going to -- i'm going to answer that question.

ideally, that would be what needs to happen. in reality it has been very clear. i don't want to exaggerate the somewhat ambiguous about the western allies. if you put yourself in the shoes you understand why it's very obvious. but somnus mind is the fact that a lot of the infrastructure of all of these groups is inside. there's 1 million refugees in turkey. if he starts cracking down on all of this, there will be consequences for turkey and he wants to protect his country understandably, but this has led to the situation in many cases we put instead with our own eyes they've turned a blind eye to the activity of groups within their territory.

if they are now closing the border more effectively and that remains to be saying it would make a big difference. the second consideration is for him the islamic state is not the only entity. he has a second which are the kurds. from his perspective that is the more urgent threat than the islamic state because the current have a third of his country's territory. if he is not dominant positions in syria, the best possible outcome would be for both sides because he is bombing the kurds as well as the islamic state to be weak and equally which would put us back to square one. the worst possible outcome because it is weak and more than a islamic state which indirectly means the islamic state is going to be strength and by the turkish intervention will have

to see that. >> history while it may not repeat itself tends to run. this sounds that much of the saudi miscalculation and started to address that in pakistan. very briefly, lorenzo. >> the migration issue. what can be done i think i saw her about the lucky man and angela was one of the authors of a report in 2003-2004 which was building muslim networks which are advocated to re-create the cold war strategy of the u.s. government had not indigenous voices again communism and re-creating in a different way the narrative coming from al qaeda 10 years ago as isis today. there have and a lot of efforts

made at the state department throughout the u.s. government with mixed results. it is not the same enthusiasm that existed 40, 50 years ago. domestically that's even more complicated as i said briefly earlier and shamelessly pointing to the report was put out last june at the underfunded disjointed effort domestically here. there's a lot of engagement but little follow through have a little research at the grassroots level. migration is a humongous issue in the southern european countries. italy is dr. thomas two dozen people on a daily basis coming in from libya with problems from a financial point of view and the ability to check the background of people who just recently one of the alleged perpetrators and was arrested in

italy and came illegally through shifts. it is a major issue and i think there is a gap and other resources are are used with the burden of a thousand european countries to the border countries and at the end of the day to the u.k. and spain and that's a big one. >> fernando come to you at the last word. >> the cooperation with turkey has obviously been affected by the calculation toward the solid machine. the syrian army is no longer there. when they have these amazing nebula is a selloff e-groups when the chinese spare mains.

however turkey has been since man is the gateway for jihadist up through the middle east and south asia. from the 90s, you had to go through istanbul. 10 years ago a swine into turkey and in syria and then i brought. turkey has had a jury and tradition towards the movement that is worth remembering. istanbul was the meeting point for the islamic fighting group in addition to london or wednesday of last facilities in afghanistan. i can tell you a bit more about my report --

[inaudible] it is a long time before the report arrives on march 10th 2004, the day before the bombings. this report was why it was part of the bombing network was arrested by the turkish police on his way to afghanistan and released on minor migration. i will only insist how important it is that i raise this issue at the local level in the committee level and also to remember that not just muslims might be able to the po identities mixed with

violence. we have the same problem with second-generation diaspora individuals with the identity conflicts joined latino gangs in spain. .. are pakistan pakistanian. >> let me thank you before we depart please take a moment to thank our fascinating panelist. we could have gone on for many

more hours. [applause] >> and let me just say on a personal note stay tuned, you will see more great work coming and thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> the republican presidential candidates are in manchester new hampshire for the first presidential forum at 7 p.m. eastern and c-span's road to the white house is providing coverage. the new hampshire leader union along with media organizations from the early caucus and primary states are sponsoring this forum and following the forum you can provide input by joining our call-in program or adding comments on facebook or twitter. road to the white house on 2016 on c-span c-span radio and cspan.org. tonight on the "the communicators," democratic representatives diana from

colorado and jim from rhode island on internet security and data breaches. >> we have seen attack on attack. the most recent on the office of personal management but in private industry. target home depot and other private organizations have had customer information stolen. we are realized we can try to keep ahead of the hackers, but what we need to do is think about minimizing the need for customer's to put their private information on to websites. >> right now there are legal prohibitions from the government-sharing classified private information with the private-sector and the legal

prohibitions or they would be termed as acting at agencies of the government. we want to allow the barriers to be removed so you could share information on threat signatures narrowly defined, very technical type of information, but you know for example, of the very hacks that have taken place out there, if we could broadly share that information, when one hack occurs one place hopefully at network speed, we could widely share that vulnerability and grow and protect everyone. >> tonight at 8 eastern on the "the communicators" on c-span2. the u.s. house is on a break this month but they gaveled in every three days why the senate continues to work on a bill to defund planned parenthood. we have live coverage beginning at 2 eastern and they will plan a vote about moving forward with

the planned parenthood bill. "washington journal" talked with a reporter following that bill. >> host: peter sullivan of the hill to talk about today's vote. when will it take place and what is the first vote? >> guest: it will take place this afternoon, probably later in the afternoon, and it is a procedural vote to actually get on to start to debate on the bill to defund planned parenthood and cut off that $500 million as you mentioned. the vote is actually likely to fail because it needs a 60 vote threshold and probably hardly any democrats, if any, are going to vote for it. so there probably are not the votes. it is going to be a procedural vote to move to the bill and it is not going to go forward. >> host: then what happens? some republicans are saying that their leadership should continue to fight on this.

>> guest: right. so this could be a fight that goes on for a while. it could go on into the fall in september we will see whether this comes back after congress returns. they have to figure out how to fund the government by october 1st and there are many republicans who say we should be defunding planned parenthood in the spending bill. in the appropriations bill and they will not vote for anything that includes funding for planned parenthood. which in theory could lead to a government shutdown if the sides can't agree on it. it is definitely something that has been fired up by these controversial videos and could definitely come back in the fall. >> host: what is the republican leadership saying about this? about the prospects of a shutdown over the controversial video and funding for planned parenthood? do they think it is worth

shutting down the government? >> guest: well they say they do not want to shutdown the government. when senator mitch mcconnell, the majority leader won the majority, he said we will not be shutting down the government and hasn't changed from that. leadership does not want to shutdown the government. they also say they do want to defund planned parenthood. we will see how strongly they push to defund planned parenthood. in the house the leadership has been a little more cautious. they haven't held any votes to defund planned parenthood yet which has annoyed some of their rank and file members to some degree. so it seems more rank and file driven than it may be headed toward a shutdown. i don't think leadership wants a shutdown. >> host: what is the white house saying? >> guest: they are saying -- they are defending planned

parenthood. they are going to veto any spending bill that defunds planned parenthood. the white house is saying they are not going to back down. they are going to make sure there is funding in there for planned parenthood. and i am sure they are going to be ready with the argument that republicans are yet again shutting down the government over cutting off access to women's health they say. so they are getting their side ready for the fight here. >> host: all right. peter sullivan with the hill thank you for your time. >> defense secretary ashton carter addressed the needs of military children during a speech to the military child education coalition. this is about 15 minutes. [applause] [applause]

>> good morning. good morning. mary, thank you. stephanie and i were are you stef? >> right here. >> my better half, right there. stephanie. we just met with a few kids from the student to student program. your program. what great -- where are they? are you guys out there? yay! give those guys a round of applause. what amazing, incredible kid and what a simple and powerful idea that local military children and they are not all military children, including some non-military children who take it upon themselves to be ambassadors to new military children who just moved nearby. it is a great take on the tradition of sponsorship in our military. a tradition of sponsorship of new transitions to new bases and

new communities. it is part of our tradition but thanks to this organization is now going down a generation to our children and we are very grateful of that. that is just one innovative way that this coalition supports our military kids beyond the classroom. i want to thank you for orchestrating this tremendous training seminar and for being the department of defense's go-to partner on all things affecting the well-being of our military children. i want to thank the teachers counselors administrators and parents here today for your service to your next generation for committing your commission to making their stories success stories. thanks. to the people in this room the scope of our mission is clear. think about it this way: for

our recent high school grad graduates, the entire time they have been in school spelling bee, pep rally and prom america has been at war. last week i spoke to our men and women on the front lines in iraq. many of them are parents. many of those who are not hope to be some day. and for most of their lives america has been at war. regardless of the reality they lived in military children continue to muster the same grit and courage their parents devote to defending our country. that is what makes our military the finest fighting force the world has ever known. it is our people. that is our secret sauce. not just our far fighters but their families, their kids who

proudly embrace their service. kids like margaret flint whose story is told in the magazine on the move. she is in high school. her dad is a coast guardsman. they have moved six times in her life. she said moving is both the best and the most challenging thing about being a military kid. margaret was asked about the most important thing people should know about military children and i am told she said quote kids serve, too. she is right. kids serve, too. many kids like margaret proudly own their service. they are determined creative, wise beyond their years and they seize their stories, their unique experiences as an opportunity. our challenge, the challenge this coalition has taken on is

to provide them the support they need to succeed. as you may have been mentioned earlier, and i think it was, long before i was secretary carter, i was professor carter. i am an educator, too and we happen education is critical to a richer quality of life for people. as americans we know education is critical to a democracy. but as secretary of defense the education of the military children is critical to our mission, our security, and to building what i call the force of the future. the military that will defend our country in the years to come. let me say why. it is true a capable, dynamic force of the future will depend on main tanning an unmatched operational edge and unmatched

capabilities. but it is most than advance weapons platforms that keep people safe. people keep people safe. their conviction the men and women in uniform their courage, their sacrifice it is that that makes ours the finest fighting force the world has ever known. [applause] >> if we are going to stay the best the u.s. armed forces has to be an attractive, supporting place to serve for families of all kinds. the world is changing. the labor market is changing. younger generations and young families want flexibility and choice in their career paths. we know that. more and more we are seeing that they want to be on a jungle gym where you advance by moving around and having new

experiences. not in escalator when you get on and wait your turn. dod has to keep up. and keeping up means being more responsive to the needs of our military families and their children. that is our obligation. gut given today's abundance of career paths to chose from we can't take from a granted that military children are twice as likely as other kids to join the military. nor can we take for granted military parents inclination to recommend military service to their own children. there is value in families upholding a tradition of service that is passed from generation to generation. makes our military stronger. there is no substitute for the unique potent mix of passion and mentor mentorship that comes from a military mom, dad granddad in

the case of a lot of kids i was speaking about earlier today, or all of them. i recently got a letter from a fourth grader who wrote quote dear mr secretary, i want to be in the military because i want to defend our country and our country's freedom. my mom and dad are in the air force and that is what inspired me. there it is. it is a great reason. military children like that future airman who already see the virtue of their parent's service also see their peers chase those jungle gym style careers and they too, see businesses trending toward more family flexibility, and more opportunities to pursue higher education, and fewer long-term commitments. so we have to adapt to keep up and compete for talent. and when we make the department of defense a more attractive

place to join across the board the virtue of service becomes a more worthwhile endeavor for military and civilian families alike. our force of the future should be family focused and parents in uniform never feel like they have to chose from accepting a promotion and choosing their families. we are expanding maternity and paternity leave and creating on-ramps and off-ramps between active duty and the reserves so our personal don't have to derail their careers to get an advance degree or to have a family. to give service members and their families greater choice we are overhauling the way we place personal to offer more options and potentially, not always but potentially fewer moves meaning fewer first days as the new kid

in the school. to give families more opportunity, we are making sure serving in uniform doesn't mean you have to trade in your aspirations to wear a cap and gown if that is what you want to do. the post-9/11 gi bill helped 1.93 million americans pay for college and those benefits are transferrable to fam ohio members and we are looking for ways to make it work better -- family. those are just a few of the ways we are working hard to be more responsive of the needs of our modern military families which of course support our military kids. but when it comes to education, we have a specific set of tools we use to deliver direct support in the classroom. more than 74,000 kids attend dod-run schools over seen by our department of defense education activities office.

our schools have good teachers, high graduation rates, and above average sat stores. we are doing well but we can always do better. that is why starting with this coming school year we will be adopting college and career-ready standards across all dod schools. so our military kids can hit the ground running in college and be first in line for 221st century jobs. dod schools are only a small part of the education. more than 90% of military children attend local, public schools. so working hand and hand with groups like this is essential to pushing progress outside the department's own schools. we are working together to make moving easier on kids. one way is by creating a military dependent student

identify so parents, educators track the progress over their entire educational careers. if we know how particular groups of kids are performing we can better target resources to maximize their success. dod firmly supports creating the identifier and greatly appreciate the iron glad support of this organization. we are working to extend our reach in creative ways. case in point and the grant program where schools go to local schools with a 15% or more number of military kids enrolled. those funds paid for a s.t.e.m. partnership that helps high school students earn ap exam

scores that qualified them for college credit. that is an incredible return on invest. this years round of funding totals $52 million and i want to thank you again for your continued support for this program. let me make it clear we are open to new ideas also. i shared with you some of the ideas we have but we are looking for more. and i hope all of you will think of us as a partner and resource as you tackle these challenges in your districts and your neighborhoods. i will close with a story about a visit i made to an air base in japan this past april during the month of the military child. i had a chance to spend quality time with military families and

kids. i met five year old students who were making bird feeders in a craft class. in my day, i remember we made ashtrays. goes to show how priorities and times have changed. to boost our military children's potential, we have to change, too. our security demands it, the force of the future demands it and the family and kids of the military families demand it. our military children are resourceful, resilient, compassionate and proud of their parents and proud to stand alongside them. but instead i will let a military child tell you. this poem is published by katie, a six year old who goes to school at an air force base in

new mexico. her poem is entitled military girl. quote i am not in the rank of commands. orders i do not get. but my dad is the one who does. this i cannot forget. i am not the one who fires the weapon, who puts my life on the line, but my job is just as tough. i am the one who left friends behind. my dad makes a sacrifice and works to keep this country free but so do my mom, brother sister and me. even though i might get a little wild i stand with the rank known as military child. that poet katie is one of nearly two million military children whose parents serve among our active duty guard and reserve. that is the scope of our education challenge and our

opportunity. margarete, katie, thousands of kids like them, give us a glimpse of the grit and wisdom our military children have and need to make their lives work. our mission is to have their back to cheer them on to make sure their stories are success stories and happy stories and stories of fulfilled lives because the brave men and women who defend our freedoms and risk their lives all over the world to serve the peace of mind that comes with knowing their families are being taken care of back home. thank you for all you do to promote that. [applause] >> president obama is mandating gas cuts from power plans and crept granting states more time

to adjust. more than four million comments have been received by the epa. we have president obama's live in about 15 minutes at 2:15 eastern on c-span. and tonight, c-span partners with new hampshire media bringing you the voters first forum at 7:00 eastern. our coverage begins at 6:30 on c-span c-span radio and cspan.org. >> tonight on the "the communicators" dian a from colorado and jim from rhode island on security issues and data breaches. >> we have seen attack after attack. the most recent attack on the office of personal management.

but also in private industry; target, home depot and so many other private corporations have had customer information stolen. so what we have realized is we can try very hard to keep ahead of the hackers but what we need to do is think about how we minimize the need for customers to put their private information on to websites. >> right now there are legal prohibitions from the government sharing classified credit information with the private sector and these legal prohibations can't happen or they would be termed in acting as the government. we want to allow those barriers to be removed so we could you could share information on threat signatures zeros and

technical type of information. for example, of the very hacks that have taken place, if you could broadly share that information, when one hack occurs hopefully at network speed, we can share that vulnerability and grow to protect everyone. >> tonight at 8 eastern on the "the communicators" on c-span2. the house of representatives already gone for their summer break. the senate has their last week in town. the house gavels in every three days but the senate is here with one more piece of business on the calendar and that is work on a bill that would defund planned parenthood. our live coverage gets underway in three minutes and a vote planned for 5:30 this afternoon. we spoke with a capitol hill reporter to learn more. >> host: peter sullivan of the hill is on the phone to talk

about today's vote. peter sullivan when will it take place and what is the first vote? >> guest: hi. well if is going to take place this afternoon, probably later in the afternoon. it is a procedural vote to actually get on to start the debate on the bill to defund planned parenthood/cut off that $500 million as you mentioned. the vote is likely to fail because it needs a 60-vote threshold and probably hardly any democrats, if any, are going to vote for it. so there probably are not the votes. it will be a procedural vote to move to the bill and then it is not going to go forward. >> then what happens? because some republicans are saying that their leadership should continue to fight on this. >> guest: right. so this could be a fight that goes on for a while. it could go on into the fall in

september and we will see whether this comes back after congress returns. they have to figure out how to fund the government by october 1st and there are many republicans who say we should be defunding planned parenthood in the spending bill/appropriation bill and they will not vote for anyone that funds planned parenthood which could lead to a shutdown. it has been fired up by the controversial videos and could be coming back in the fall. >> host: what is the republican leadership saying about this? about the prospect of a shutdown over the controversial videos and funding for planned parenthood? do they think it is worth shutting down the government? >> guest: they say they don't want to shutdown the government. when senator mitch mcconnell,

the majority leader won the majority in november he said we will not be shutting down the government and hasn't changed from that. leadership does not want to shutdown the government. they also say they do want to defund planned parenthood. so those could be intention there. we will see how strongly they push to defund planned parenthood. in the house the leadership has been a little more cautious and not held any votes to defund planned parenthood yet which has annoyed some of their rank and file members to some degree. so it seems more rank and file driven than heading toward a shutdown. i don't think leadership wants a shutdown. >> host: what is the white house saying? >> guest: well they are saying -- they are defending planned parenthood. they are going to veto any spending bill that defunds planned parenthood which kind of raises the stakes here.

the white house is saying they are not going to back down. they are going to make sure there is funding were planned parenthood in there and i am sure they will be ready with their argument that republicans are yet again shutting down the government over cutting off access to women's health they say. so they are getting their side ready for the fight here. >> host: peter sullivan with the hill thank you for your time. the president pro tempore: the senate will come to order. the chaplain, dr. barry black, will lead the senate in prayer. the chaplain: let us pray. lord god omnipotent, your power and love sustain us. rule the wills of our lawmakers by your might, as you use them to do your work on earth.