news report about the taliban trying to form a unity shura. i thought there is no one better than ambassador feldman to work on forming disunity to work with the unity government in kabul. that could be your next job. many of you in the room joined us for the public session we had made jim just after i turned from a trip to afghanistan. ..

but this trip i did come back more encouraged and precisely because there is a much the prospects for this peace process getting on track are much greater than they were in june when we visited. again there's a lot of uncertainty now. lots of grounds for skepticism very likely things might not work out my do think it's important not to be so skeptical about the prospects for peace andthat we miss the opportunity when it presents itself. i think right now is the time that most of the afghans and the afghan taliban as well as pakistan and the u.s. and her allies is an opportunity that we must seize. i think it's a really interesting time in that regard.

i did want to set a little bit on the economic piece which i don't think we focus on so much. i am personally concerned that might be one single biggest challenge to the current government. on one hand clearly they have got to get their act together and start performing and moved from processed act of producing, and there has been progress. has been quite the of the appointment. the cabinet is pretty much full except for the acting minister of defense. two-thirds appointments have taken place but there's still lots more that needs to be done in that front. on the economic situation i think that's the situation right up to the control, toward the short term. at one level we all intellectually new that once the war -- bubble was popular the painful. i think utc every meeting we had, we heard accounts of this

clothing the last day we met with our fabulous team in kabul. stephen around the room asking people about the fund. many point to the economic situation as well as many people are now looking for exit strategies. plywood actually think the international committee and the us should be given the consideration for some type of short-term stimulus package of some sort so that it's not a collapsing economy that brings the government down. they have their own problems but we shouldn't let the economic crisis. in the short term some job creation, there are some other and interesting innovative idea and for an urban national solidarity program type program to stimulate the economy. some land registration programs. so those ideas that government is working out to tried to buy some illegal space with a national unity government to

actually figure out how to govern but also for the peace process to occur. that's one thing i would highlight. at the same time that you need to take the tough reform measures that could lead to change long-term. i think the thing i would point to this progress which there is a very passionate this is a reform oriented government unlike what we had in the past but it would be a shame to be sort of backing away from supporting a government that finally have the political will and wants to push a reform agenda forward. in our programs at usip we are already noticing a big difference where we are we have actually moving some of our strategy from working mostly in the informal space, civil society organizations, to consciously now finding reformers to partner with government, influence programs. we are finding a dramatic change from year or two ago in that

regard. i believe at that. i think i'll ask ambassador feldman and steve vick couple of question and then open it up to the audience. i think maybe i will start with you, dan, in terms of one of the things we very, very contradictory messages in the region was daesh. for most other government actors we spoke to felt that it was a problem, and a point of concern and often also pressure point of the taliban. many of the endless we spoke to did not think it was as big a concern. the ideology is not attractive to most afghans. summits at how for 25 years sound cement trying to great salafi regime and have not succeeded. so the very contradictory analyses of the threat of daesh poses someone you may want to comment a bit on the?

>> we are keeping a very close eye on daesh. we're just two in the process of flushing as much academician as possible to determine how it may influence our footprint decisions, what we have to continue to do on counterterrorism efforts. it's called a concern as many growing concern to the fact none of us were talking about daesh a year ago. there have been some leadership -- recently but in terms of in afghanistan, but given the fact that the battles have been between taliban and daesh it's unclear whether it's disaffected talibans or looking to recruit others if it's opportunistic or is attracting, that's another thing we don't have as much

sense for what kind of threat that was posed to the afghan state or to the international community down the road. i think just these point given only in government a few more days i will step on decisions that our president was to be made over the coming weeks and months, our footprint, but clearly we have taken a number of opportunities to demonstrate that there is flexibility in terms of how we are operationalizing, whether that was with extension of authority the intellectual our with the preaching period earlier this year in the transition and to the rest of the initial part of the get there. but most recently went president ghani was here and so as the circumstances continue to be assessed and evaluated of what needs to be done on counterterrorism more globally in afghanistan and pakistan fit into that global approach we

will see what sorts of decisions will need to be made. i would note in terms of the lure in the region it's just as much a concern in pakistan. very very actually focus on the potential growth of daesh. and so yet again i think this is a line of interest between the afghans, pakistanis, one they can vote on in terms of collaborating and determining at least a coordinated response, if not a joint response. this goes as well to the reconciliation issues in the range of the other potential opportunities that you noted. because there really can be no long-term sustainability or stability in pakistan -- afghanistan without pakistan to whether that's on the economic side trade side people to people contact on cross-border military issues, on military training on intelligence,

instrument something like a daesh which profited. the more we help to nurture a facility of our the that when the time is right for reconciliation discussion that's important to us. >> i just want to say one thing. if the president decides as i hope you would do to lead a fairly robust presence there in order to advance the peace process that would involve continuing support for the afghan military, support for the train, assist mission and a robust counterterrorism practice and maybe that totals up to 5000, 6000 people, there will be a lot of people and a lot of them will be republicans who will say see we told you you were wrong to say you're going to come down to 1000

troops at the end of 2016. you were wrong, we were right. and i would hope that reaction predictable so that it may be in washington today, will not stop the president because that's not what i would be saying. i would say to the president, you had a series of policies, he made a lot of tough decisions and those tough decisions have worked. you've got a political transition. you've got a security transition. you gave this government a chance but the situation has changed. the middle east has melted down. the state system is in collapse and it is given a boost to existing terror groups like al-qaeda and spot anyone called the islamist state. and the situation in afghanistan a lot of reasons is very different. so mr. president, you need to be flexible to adapt our policy to the new situation, the negative

things that happened but also capitalized on opportunity for reconciliation. path to help the president -- this is not a result. we need to look at this not as a result of the failure of his polesitter it's a result of the success of his policy. i hope he is willing to do that because one of the other things that will do this it will enhance the chances for peace and also means that his successor, whoever that he or she may be in january 2017 will not be faced with a crisis in afghanistan when they walked in the oval office door. >> a follow-up question for you. which ended our trip in india and, of course, the whole indopak conflict lays a role in terms of afghanistan of poker i was wondering if you wanted to reflect a bit on what we were hearing in delhi with regard to the situation in afghanistan

and? >> and i will be brief. one of the things that i didn't realize into we went to india and heard, and it's a good advertisement that when you go to the region you got to go to all three countries or you will not see the whole story. one of the of the problems and delicate challenges for president ghani is on the one hand he has to send the message to the pakistanis that afghanistan is not going to be hostile to pakistan and is not going to be a satellite of india, which was a suspicion that pakistan have president karzai. but on the other hand, at the same time he's got to send a message to india that afghanistan is not going to outsourced its foreign policy to pakistan, not going to be under a satellite of pakistan either. he's going to have to exclusively balance that relationship because he needs both countries.

he needs pakistan to help them do with his taliban problem and he needs india to help them deal with particularly with his economic problem. so you know the are a few presidents in the world today that have a set of challenges in front of them that president ghani does. but i wouldn't bet against him. >> i know the question don't want to get, but they mullah omar question, particular i think beyond that, of course lots of daily moving stories in terms of how that's going to unfold in the impact it could have on the peace process but maybe taking a step back and going into more detail in terms of why they think we actually got to this point right now in terms of the peace process that we didn't have much love for a long time and also maybe speak with more about the role of regional actors china in particular and helping get this

contract. and then, of course, we wanted to your when murray -- >> with regard to the mullah omar is not that don't want to check the on is everything at this point is just too speculative. we just don't know enough. we are waiting to see what emerges. and the one thing i was is i think it's probably what you see is in the press, certain factions that are pro-peace or entities certain factions that have long relationship with isi and those that don't certain factions that may be just involved in quest for leadership power. but taliban has their own interagency disagreements and we are seeing how that plays out and much of it may be tempting, i think the only person involved in both the recount in the u.s. and the effort in afghanistan. i will not take the hat trick of

trying to show us up into the situation as well. it would be fascinating. we just don't see we don't know enough to offer that assessment. but we will see what happens. i returned before you on sunday, the last official us always in pakistan and they expressed every commitment as the supreme leadership that they would continue to drive to get this on track as soon as possible. they hope it was just a temporary -- a lot depends on what emerges from the taliban leadership but that everything absolutely committed to continue to try to facilitate this process which is something we're very strongly supportive of. in terms of what's changed, i think the there's a change in leadership in both countries. a change in personnel is the

most important i think pakistan recognized two things. one, i remember visiting with secretary clinton a few years ago where she warned -- publicly replicated story those in the backyard will be bitten. they talk about constantly. the fact that there is a common nexus, a communal cold of extremism and whether it's tpp or was it also gives rise to afghan taliban or al-qaeda or the haqqani network for a range of other actors that other countries are also involved in is a compelling one and one that increasingly -- there has been a redoubling of efforts domestically to take of extremism and recognizing that reconciliation reconciliation process is part of that. the other piece is looking at as

we got closer to the security transition the fact that the international community, 10% of the national forces that were there two or three years ago 10 15,000 as opposed to 150,000, they recognize that they were not benefiting from the potential of insecurity and instability on their borders that they can be invested in stability which they note is fundamentally political stability. so the success of this unity government, their ability to confront military the taliban but ultimately reconciliation process was the surest way to that resolution. so we have seen quite a significant movement here from the pakistani government with regard to the taliban including

the commitments by general sharif when they visited kabul a few months ago and a continuing effort to get this on track. in terms of the of the members of the region, you've always said in long consistent that we support any sort of reconciliation process that is afghan let, that is afghan own without preconditions but would end result of the red lines that the taliban britain with al-qaeda denounce violence. given that it is afghan let and aft end cone afghan government wants us to play some role in that including as we did in the first process. we are happy to do so and continue to do with ask us to do to help facilitate this. similarly if you think there are other key actors including the

chinese could also be helpful in the process and we also welcome back. but this is their call, it's their process and it's got to be between the afghan government and afghan taliban about the future of afghanistan. >> i just want to say one comment, one of the senior officials would talk to did mention how the tpp has changed things also significantly that the more the afghans did get to destabilize by these kind of actors, the more safe havens in afghanistan go before the tpp to destabilize pakistan. so the growing recognition of that concern is also mentioned. >> i just neglected to mention two other things we heard in india, relevant. one is the indian steel that how this reconciliation comes out affects them. how much influence the taliban

government has in afghanistan post-reconciliation. how much influence pakistan continues to exert on taliban. so what do the things we heard was the u.s. government use of dialogue with india about how this reconciliation is going. and taking into account some of india's concerns. and the second thing we heard is i concerned that the pakistan me feel ugly that if they accommodate us by encouraging the afghans and the taliban to reconcile, that will effectively raise the threshold of allowable cross-border activity by terrorists from pakistan into india, something the indians would not take kindly to. so i just emphasize the point we need to make the point to pakistan and the regional neighbors need to make the

point, we support reconciliation and any terrorism in the region is unacceptable. there are not good terrorists and bad terrorists. it's all got to stop and that was the second message we heard from india. >> i think we got the impression impression, pakistan controlled afghan let which process. >> in both points we quickly engaged on, we try to be as frequent in our consultations with the two governments as possible in addition to working very closely with others. i going to india several times a year for years at this point including most recently in may i think when i saw that only the abbasid but national security advisor, and we tried to ensure that they have every bit of a sense of what's going on as we do. clearly they expressed their

great skepticism about it but the more that we can demonstrate what we believe is occurring, what we believe is incentivizing it and how we think it's productive opening for the long-term stability of the region, that isn't a zero-sum game. it isn't favoring pakistan versus india or vice versa. and clearly the message on no terrorism of any kind across any borders is one that we also made extremely clear. one more question for steve and and we will open it up to questions for the audience. i'm one in which what they did american given the fact that we have some estimates, spent trillions of dollars in afghanistan the last 15 years and over 2300 lives of servicemen were killed in afghanistan. to make the case to why the u.s.

needs to remain engaged both militarily and politically and economically? >> i was at think actually dan made it very well in his speech, so i will just ago it briefly. one, it has been a major commitment by the men and women of the united states, our taxpayers and men and women in uniform, coalition support and afghan people. number two, it has accomplished a lot. afghanistan is a different place. three, there is an opportunity after all the time, after the mistakes that were made by all of us afghan, bush administration, obama administration, there is a chance that this can well for the afghan people and for stability in the region. not a sure thing but there is a chance. and with what is in comparison to the investment we made in the

past a modest investment, we can't enhance the chances for the outcome. and it matters because a destabilization in this part of the region a south asia and middle east that is constant called the lamont as an incubator for terrorist groups and at the end of the basic, for the united states. so it is in our humanitarian interest, also in our national security interest. and i think the president of the united states explained to the american people they reckon people have good sense and they will do it. and is not talking about resuming combat operations if not talking about large numbers of american troops. is not a return to casual among young men and women. is enabling the afghans to take and seize control of their own future and maybe find a path for peace and reconciliation. and that is an opportunity that

we shall take. >> open to audience questions. i think -- someone would deliver a mic. right in the back. the back row there please. >> please keep your questions andshort so that when the time for as many as possible. >> thank you spirit real short in our answer to that is i will shorten my answers. >> hello. talking of the challenges of course their achievements but talking of the challenges, given be politics aside all of you went to kabul and unit different groups. looking at politics there are some concerns about --

[inaudible] as a concern and how did you look at that? just one more small thing it's about the election commission. [inaudible] member of election commission personal. did you have a recommendation to in? >> let's take it with a question and then we will come back. right here in the middle. >> if you please identify yourself as well. >> thank you very much. i am a research fellow. i had the pleasure and honor of listening to stephen hadley the last two years many times. he came to china. i guess you try to persuade the chinese to have a constructive participation in afghanistan. so based on your experience what

is the chinese position on afghanistan right now? the second part china has unleashed a megaproject, the one road one belt the new silk road project but this has stayed outside by your own initiative. to china is trying to invest, build advanced material conditions but the u.s. scared, maybe to know why china to do. you, you are staying outside. and i'm wondering if you are staying outside and how exactly could the two countries build a harmonious transition in that turbulent area? thank you. >> and one over here. spent mark schneider international crisis group. thank you all. i must admit that it is the degree of optimism that comes through your comments and i hope you are right. there's some concern to yesterday general campbell made some comments in which he also talked about how the ansf is

stretched thin and given the level of attacks this addition is really the highest level since 2001. and in that regard i guess i have two questions. one is unless the taliban believes that they cannot obtain their objectives but generally it doesn't seem to that reconciliation is going to go very far. so the question is whether you can reach that position without a firm commitment as steve said that the u.s. is going to maintain those combat enablers well beyond 2016. and the second is whether pakistan which is still has not done is going to put the kind of pressure on the rearguard of the taliban, particularly the haqqani network. mexico they will be able to maintain the level of military attacks that they have thus far.

>> and you want to tackle a couple of those? >> sure. on the first question on the constitution or whatever in afghanistan, this is what the afghans to work out. it's their constitution. they will be the ones who need to figure out how to implement political agreement which they agreed to, part of which was a call for a constitutional -- to do with the constitutional structure is in terms of the position of power between president and potentially a new prime minister down the road. -ish afghan laws, afghan and trepidation concerning the afghans have demonstrated they have the ability to figure out within their legal systems how to ensure that there is a credible government in place and so it looked to see how they will ultimately fulfill this on that score big with regard to

the electoral reform commission i was there only to meet with him because i was very devoted to their mandate that they have and the importance of electoral reform. certainly something secretary kerry feels passionately about having been there for the election in 2009 and in 2014. and speaking very personally when he was engaging with both president ghani dr. ghani doctor abdul about his own expenses as a politician. the importance and the real touchstone that free and fair and transparent elections have the heart in any well functioning democracy. and so ensuring that future elections will be faster and credible and possible, as quickly important both for the international community which as they continue to support the elections wants to ensure their

credible the most important for afghans in terms of the votes of their casting i just want to hear from them how they were starting to implement their mandate which was i think extremely they comprehensive presentation about what they hope to do. with regard to chinese as i mentioned we've seen real progression from them over the course of the last years. the trajectory of any of the key partners has changed the most significant and the most possibly in my mind in terms of their willingness to engage. so the fact that president guy made his first official trip to china, the china hosted the conference last year about the future of afghanistan that they want applicable in reconciliation, that their existence, commitments are much-needed in afghanistan encore development projects and a range of other initiatives. clearly there is a degree of

self-interest given the stability on the border as a neighbor, for economic investment in terms of counterterrorism. but whatever has increased the desire to be engaged is something that was greatly welcomed. the one -- one belt, one road is misunderstood. we were involved in an initiative over the past few years. there's many complimented part to the chinese initiative is. we see these as basically efforts to pursue the same thing goal. women to be involved in these efforts. in pakistan when president visit reason, billions was invested much in -- we are not investing for a variety of reasons and coulthard projects and civilian nuclear efforts.

but if they're able to do that and its complement to our efforts to invest in hydro and renewables, the goal is to get as many megawatts on the grid and benefit the pakistani people and help contribute to stability or we welcome the chinese efforts. with regard to mark's question, i think that we will have teachers continue to evaluate the administration. i spent quite a bit of time with general kemper he is now here. we feel very well served by his advice and counsel, and in terms of incentivizing the talibans, i think that everyone has thought about this as parallel. it would be fighting and

hopefully talking at the same time it again i can't speak for the taliban but were they to come the end of the fighting season and it was still a relative impasse as it has been for many years because this time the impasse is with ansf leaves, with a new fragile government to which is gradually strengthening, with a demo app incentive for them to join that point as a processing what years and years more could unfold? or have a -- perhaps but we will see. on the pakistani side as i note in my remarks they have done quite a bit in terms of pressuring the taliban and helping to facilitate the first nation effort the reconciliation process. we will see what continues to occur in a specific channel but clearly increased pressure on the haqqani network and others.

>> i think dan's data answer to the question, i would just make to quick notes. president ghani was very interesting. we had lunch with him and a short meeting. he said afghanistan is fighting terrorists from central asia, the middle east and the caucasus. we are fighting global terror and half of the global community and we are not getting much help. and there some i think truth to that the editing that explains why china now decides it has an interest in trying to help afghanistan stabilized itself because some of those terrorist in afghanistan are coming from china. i think china realizes that. the only other thing i would say is i would agree with you that in order for the taliban not to think that they can wait this

out, but time is on their side and they can militarily get what they want, the afghan military needs to continue to stay in the game. that's going to require enablers from the united states require i believe i'll present much greater than what is contemplated for by the end of 2016. and it is the irony of peacemaking in this context i was thinking about it, at this mode where we think we have the opportunity for peace, of the prospects for peace and the pace of the fighting have both gone up. and that's because our adversaries here or both talking but also fighting. it's just it's the way these things sometimes work. we need to act in the context so we don't lose this opportunity

for peace. >> i also don't think -- i think not under pressure themselves. i think the focus is on the number of casualties that i think there's been lots of taliban casualties as well, plus the added complication of leadership struggle, plus i think more pressure from pakistan. so i don't think they are not under pressure themselves and it's just about finding i think it's also interesting back to the point where discussing earlier, most of the various factions we've seen in the last week or two emerge most of them i think have been supportive of the peace process. the issue is whether it's peace process control by pakistan that takes place outside of pakistan and that's been one of the disputes. this goes a long ways to play out but i think it's been encouraging anything to see that many of these leaders have come

out publicly in support of the peace process. >> just one other thing on the china one belt one road, i would mention because i've also been involved in the u.s.-china dialogue on afghanistan and pakistan and this important a thing of the want of the things i like to see china do know that they've gone interested in peace between the taliban and afghanistan is also get more interested in afpak. i think for china, sorry indopak, they of course have the own disputes with india but they also have major, major economic interests in seeing i think south asia become more economically integrated and become more vibrant and the market for the goods but also for cheap labor, production. i think $46 billion investment in pakistan to me is that make too much economic sense and north-south china afghanistan

corridor. i think this is one of the heirs were i think with a level of money and hopefully graduate improving sino indo relations. if china can play a role on indopak front and move the agenda forward that would probably be more for peace and so in south asia to anything else as well as the investment. >> we have time for -- go ahead. >> let me say a word because we didn't get a chance to touch on that as much. this is something we follow quite a bit by three words, three points on the broader economic situation. first is again a record and vision from this government, the government on economic -- is excellent. what they wait out in london realizing reform is exactly the international community wanted

to be. but we need to see this continued prioritization. where they have clinton when president ghani was here and what we announced at the point was you development partnership which actually they need to see many goals in terms of its this was $800 million funding which are aggregated together released on a rolling basis, the afghans were quite happy with this because it's more in line with her interest in carcass was quite happy because certain aspects of it. and so if we can figure out kind of novel and creative ways to assist in this manner we are looking for them and we certainly welcome the partnership. the second piece is about regardless of what happened on investments and a range of other

things international assistance will continue to be imported. there will be large donor conferences next year both on the civilian assistant side and also on the security assistance aside, defer the cost of ansf with billions of dollars that we raise. engaging in keeping the international community engaged despite all the rest of the competition for international dollars from capital will be very important and, therefore, all the more reason why this government needs to demonstrate that it is doable and functional. lastly the fact that we try to decide great many of these issues, economic and political. at the end of the day they're all interwoven and you can hardly begin to talk with economic investment given the security situation or rule of law issues. whatever can be done to continue to stabilize the political leadership and show their delivering benefits were legally

or in other economic issues and security issues spent i think my only point was that to be more durable and functional if they get a short-term, some discretion funding to do something stephen over the next six months to provide jobs. with the level of a popular account but i think the economic situation we are doing more to delegitimize this on the election process last year or three more quick questions. one over your on the right. >> i have corresponded from afghanistan -- i am corresponded from afghanistan. thank you so much. the things i'm concerned about the peace process. i am not unfortunately optimistic based after 13 years in the past, it was not positive results. in case i hope that it's going to be successful process in this

situation. what would be women achievements number one? you guys with the women in afghanistan achievements during this time? in case peace talks process gets successfully, done successfully the achievements will not be under question. thank you. >> thank you. back here. >> i'm mike happily retired. side of particular interest in corruption and anticorruption and daniel mentioned it in passing. the legitimacy of the, i think has a lot to do with that and the unity government talked a lot about it and i've been out of became a little while now but what exactly is happening both the usg site and the afghan side of anticorruption? >> didn't go in with someone in

the middle. -- and then we went in with someone in the middle. >> thank you. abdul. before as the question of only two make humble house addition to the next time you visit, i suggest you visit with the kashmir which happens to be my homeland. it is politically and cynically -- i would be killing two birds with one stone. but my question is regarding a neighbor of afghanistan to her west. we spoke about the neighbors on the east which is in the and pakistan but my question is regarding the role that ivan could play -- iran air, and it can play a role. a special entrance of fighting isis which it has been

willingly, willingly declared that iranians want to do so. so my question is where do you think iran should feature in this process? because iran would like to see a stable afghan as would any other nation. thank you. >> thank you. start with you, steve. >> i'll be very quick. last one i think to try to put iran into these negotiations would pull all the circuits. these are hard enough as it is. though it's interesting that we heard from washington, though it is interesting we are in both india and afghanistan that economically if a nuclear agreement goes through and the sanctions come off someone if you know someone suggested that a large number of afghan workers

which would then be able to go into afghanistan, send back remittances. the indians as well. so that is an iran element at the negotiating table. that is, you know it's hard to be optimistic but it's interesting that every afghan we talk to, even the most skeptical said test it. test the pakistanis, as the taliban, see if it's real. and i think that's the right thing to do. i will let dan do with the issue but, about women's achievements, but i think it's been pretty clear in this administration more importantly president ghani's statements that his condition for any kind of reconciliation is the recognition of the achievements and progress women have made,

and that is not on the negotiating table. that is non-negotiable. that's how it should be. and lastly i would say i agree with everything dan said about economic assistant but i also agree with the point that dan made that the politically economic and security are all related. and the truth is the problem on the economics is not just the absence of reform is the absence of confidence. is not going to be confident in the economy if the government doesn't start to perform and if it can't get some control over the security situation. >> i'll answer the iran question first as with the it's a level of conjecture on top of conjecture in terms of reconciliation. whatever may happen which is hard withering deal, nothing happens in washington but most importantly the initial, steps

every intent to take in terms of what they are proving in terms of meeting the threshold commitment with the iaea validate and in the beginning of the lifting of just the nuclear sanctions. we are many months away and see what happens with that and certainly way too speculative entrance of if there's any role for the duplicate what that may be around the region. but there is a potential obviously that this is an important neighbor and we have participate in multilateral forum as part of the international context, part of other forms. and there are many aligned interests on drug issues, on refugee issues, on broader stability. so should there come a day when we can engage with them more openly and transparently and

work together towards common interest in stability, that is certainly one we would welcome. i think that the unity government has done some very important things in its first days from the symbolic acts of the very first date and reopening the kabul bank investigation and trying to continue find and return funds from that to the enormous investment president, and others are taking a procurement reviews a range of other things to try to limit and constrain corruption. and he talks about it quite open and transparent as part of his part of his stump speech as what has begun in afghanistan and entrance appointing the broad range of technocratic ministers and governors, something there's a common interest in. the u.s. side we continue to do

everything we have to work with our igs with others in terms of the importance of their investigation and dinner setting accountability. and will continue to do so. >> did you have another? >> a quick note. see if didn't agree. afghanistan is going from a fairly corrupt patronage system to a system which will be professional transparent and non-corrupt. that is a long, hard road to travel. and if president ghani ms. too fast he will break his politics and he will cause so many groups to be disgruntled within an organized against them. so we have to be patient and recognize that this kind of transition is very difficult. he's got to be on the road

convince the afghan people but we've got to give him a little slack because if he moves too fast and breaks his politics and lose the government, then we lose the possibility of moving to the professional transparent and non-corrupt system, to the old afghanistan, and that's not good for anybody. >> i concur with it. finally, the last question on reconciliation i wouldn't say that anyone didn't necessarily -- optimistic pessimism. just evaluating as much information as we can get and trying to seize most importantly this potential window of opportunity. is this a line of factors that is currently there right now which want to be able to take advantage of should we be able to. so it's a continuing to try to

build a conducive facilitative hospitable environment for reconciliation process should they become available. and the way to do that is to continue to work with the afghan government continue to work with pakistanis and others in the region see what is spawned from track one on track to initiatives and see what might be achieved. clearly a commitment to women is not only something that obviously most unites our political left and right and congressional support in terms of wanting to safeguard the remarkable gains that have been made over the course of the last 14 years and which unites most of the key donors but something is government of national unity espouses because it knows it's the right thing ended because it

believes as passionately as we figure we saw that in president ghani's inauguration address we talked about the role of his wife and we talked about reconciliation for the first time and in all the subsequent times when you talk about reconciliation and then his actions. the fact that he delivered on the commitment to point for women ministers and for women governors at this point the fact there's the first woman justice of the supreme court i was nominated he was not confirmed but that hopefully will take the opportunity to continue to announce women for key positions. slowly again cognizant of when we started this process. the fact that it's subject to poverty and instability a lack of institution and lack of capacity and every single step is a calculation between what the policy goals are an efficient how to get there but what is politically feasible as well. but i have no doubt that commitment is the shared by

president ghani to the advancement and continuing to safeguard the games that women made by president connie, i dr. abdullah, by this entire government. -- president ghani. they said this is one of the key red lines and we've said consistently since the beginning of this administration, i remember secretary clinton initially announcing the same through red lines for any outcome of process particularly the embracing of the afghan constitution for the fight for women. >> thank you. we're out of time to our just like to thank all of you a giver. i'd like to say thank you to steve for giving 10 days to visit the region. [applause] last but not least particular thanks to ambassador feldman for his public service and in particular for three years as a special represents office for

afghanistan, pakistan and as try to bring peace afghanistan and pakistan. and i have to say that some has been working in the region for a long i feel more hopeful now that we are actually inching in that direction have a long -- we have for a long time so thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> coming up in just a couple of minutes a roundtable on the challenges facing local, state and federal officials with disaster relief programs such as loan programs, economic recovery interagency coordination. senator david vitter who chairs the small business committee has proposed several bills. this is live at 11 11 a.m. future. c-span cities tour visits literary and historic sites across the nation to the local historians, authors and civic leaders every other weekend on c-span2's booktv and american history tv on c-span3. with congress in recess this month the city tours on c-span each day at 6 p.m. and today we traveled to fort lauderdale to you about the city's history. the list of candidates for major political parties participate in a tv debate tonight at 8 p.m.

eastern. this is the first and only scheduled televised debate with all four party leaders. earlier this week prime minister brian harper called for general elections to be held on october 19 kicking off a long this campaign in modern canadian history. live coverage on c-span and c-span radio tonight at 8:00 each of the big debate tonight for the republican party. president obama, rallying his base in the hours for the first republican presidential debate tonight with a nationwide videoconference to work the 15th anniversary -- 50th anniversary of the voting rights act. you can read more about that politico.com. is more from today's "washington

journal" on c-span. >> host: thanks for being with us. comic thanks for having me half to take a step back to the supreme court one which did sent shockwaves among those who were critical of some of the changes that the supreme court ruling presents. can you elaborate? >> caller: right. in the shelby county decisions the supreme court really gutted the core of a lot which was language forcing about 97 state with a history of racial discrimination is ago, from the federal government before changing the voting laws. so now with a key and was mechanism used to make sure voting rights, the voting rights act of been followed by the states, not after that while we saw was north carolina weeks after the decision passed a sweeping voter id law texas passed another one although that is you mention was struck dumb by a federal appeals court yesterday. a bunch of southern states

jumped into the game and change the voting laws soon after this supreme court case took place host but all eyes on the impact could have on 2016. hillary clinton gave a speech on this and she was critical of the supreme court ruling but a number of states including ohio where john kasich was republican presidential candidate signed into law that is possess the following need is to a passport, driver's license military id or a state id card. what is so difficult about having voters showed those? >> caller: well, i think democrats argue there is very little evidence in person voter fraud so they're saying these laws are really intended to suppress those of but secondly they present evidence of a lot of my in other words, blacks and hispanics living areas where sometimes it's difficult to get to a dmv if you don't have a car you rely on public transportation to get that photo

id. sometimes it's hard to produce that documentation. >> host: were looking at a lot of states. north carolina and texas. .. big one is wisconsin which passed a voter id law and where governor scott walker is from and another presidential candidate that is in the top three. i'm sure he'll have the crosshairs on his back for democrats host: the other story is the debate. this is the

>> guest: well, i am looking for how the other candidates on the age handle that much out here and going after donald trump or will they treat him with love. so far we've seen candidate like rick perry on the smaller debate stage go after donald trump and some of the names will not appear but they separate themselves do not come down a peg and reclaim the front runner position as the campaign heats up here post go back to the voting rights act and the issue involving texas by federal court could this go to the u.s. supreme court before 2016? >> they will need to act fast. they will need to take it up fairly soon. the supreme court will decide what cases to take up for next year very soon and this will be a case where the supreme court will rule at the end of the term which will be june 2016.

the ruling could come down in the midst of the campaign season. if the supreme court does strike roll down will texas be able to remove the rule in enough time for the elections. we'll see. >> host: jordan fabian, white house court on a joining us live on the phone. thank you for being with us. >> guest: thank you tiered >> on your screen is david fitter who chairs the small business catastrophe leadership committee post in a discussion called ricin after disaster improvements and continuing changes looking at disaster protection and recovery. just getting underway with his opening statement life here and sees into. -- c-span2. >> the most costly and devastating in american history. hurricane katrina caused over 1200 deaths and damages from that year's hurricane from some

50,000 people to be unemployed by the second-half of 2009. here we are 10 years later dealing with katrina's impact on the other significant disaster we've suffered through. between 2008 in 20 tells with gustav, ike and i think, there was over $44 billion in damages and on october 29 2012, super storm cindy devastated the vast majority of the east coast of the u.s. 131 people lost their lives and 12 states which includes the district of columbia were declared major disaster areas. the act of 2012 provided a billion dollars package of disaster assistance.

the lives lost exorbitant amount of money spent and a lasting impact still felt today from all of these events are highlighted here as the foundation for discussing ways to mitigate losses in the future and implement strategies for addressing recovery to get our lives back in order as soon as possible following a year. i witnessed firsthand after hurricane katrina the enduring strength of our communities and devastating failures in government and delivering recovery assist in. while businesses and communities came together to deliver vital relief too many times they were turned down by bureaucracy within government needs. immediately following the event i heard reports of shelter conditions at the superdome. i witnessed unacceptable is low

response times from fema come along the way for the of federal emergency is distinct food water, radios and other necessities failing evacuation systems and in effect of federal contracting practices. disaster relief funds never made it to they had those they were intended for or arrived way too late. all of these failures obstruct an final coming out of katrina and these are just the immediate failures after katrina. long-term disaster recovery assistance comes from others has responsibility of long-term recovery loans that can get these vital community and economic resources back on track. after hurricane katrina struck louisiana 10 years ago we learned the hard way what worked and what didn't work in the longer-term category as well.

after each major disaster since then we've learned small businesses need extra help to get back on their feet and that is a very important focus of the discussion and the small business entrepreneurship committee committed as all of our members to serving small businesses across the country and ensuring they are afforded research and assistance they need to help them recover as well. a completely separate categories was certainly very important in the hurricane katrina and rita context is the corps of engineers and disaster recovery and storm protection in that category. i have done quite a bit of work on not reforming the core process and improving how they

respond before and after hyde doctors that is more in the context of my work on the environment and public works committee is certainly another important piece of the equation and we may touch on today feared earlier this year as chair of the small business committee bypassed to the committee with unanimous bipartisan support asked 1470 the rice after disaster act of 2015 along with other legislation to address the needs protection and recovery of america's small businesses in particular. the rice after disaster act will definitely hurt the dems recover more quick way and with less red tape from the federal government. specifically the bill provides long-term recovery loans just

while businesses through community banks when and not be interest in is no longer available and directs federal agencies to utilize local contractors to the response and recovery rather than government contractors from washington d.c. and other far-flung areas. i also introduced a bipartisan national disaster relief tax act with my colleagues that will provide tax relief for disaster and dems that experience disasters including businesses impacted by the red river flooding in hurricane isaac and 2012. working to prepare businesses for future disasters will also allow the two create natural disaster funds to prepare for disaster costing 30 mature and and i hope to focus some of the improvements at the sba fema and other agencies and organizations a since this

tragic event 10 years ago. have to have this, we are honored by having great dating participate in and i want to briefly introduce them and i look forward to hearing from all of them. james rivera is the associate administrator for the small business administration office at disaster assistance during the 25 years mr. rivera has led several efforts to prove the agency's disaster of hurricane katrina and while not including development and underwriting computer upgrades and quicker loan disbursements and other initiatives. charlie bennett is deputy director of the national disaster recovery planning division at fema. she's been leading national disaster recovery planning initiative since 2003 including implementation of the national

disaster recovery framework and she supported disaster assistance operations for major businesses in the 1990s. russ paulson is the executive director for nationwide community preparedness and resilience building programs at the american red cross and he joins us of 25 years of its areas leading the largest disaster response and recovery efforts in that organization's history. william scheer is director of financial market at the u.s. government accountability office and will be offering significant insight in today's issues with direct substantial bodies of work addressing sba community and economic development programs and housing finance. andrea deadwyler is director of the credit programs group in the audit division office of

inspector general. she brings years of experience in investigations and oversight to the table. finally last but not least, tea roses president and ceo of the american small business development center network which leads nationwide educational assistance program just been mismanagement and if they found and small businesses including serving their communities through additional disaster recovery guidance. i look forward to hearing from all of you and then we will have the discussion coming out of those observations. why don't we start with mr. rivera. >> thank you chair for inviting us to appear and our partners as we work with disaster assistance. we've made almost $2 million in loans for $53 billion since we

started in 1953. offer not a first responder and by jerry lee is here because they do a great job when they get on the ground. from our perspective we were diligently since katrina and rita wilma and have done improvements among from every disaster most recently with sandy we continue to learn. we take a step back after katrina and after sandy and gustav and i ache. we have now implemented a process to make it easier for disaster survivors to have a good understanding of what we do and as we modernized our system we also take it image of credit scoring opportunities and how we approve individual homeowners and businesses with higher credit scores and put them through the system faster. we recently got to get our standard operating procedure.

we always take a look at what works, what doesn't work. i look forward to having the conversation and questions you may have for me and the sba. >> rate, thank you, mr. rivera. charlie bennett. >> thank you for the invitation to be here today. as mr. rivera said fema is very pleased to participate in a roundtable with our partners the sba and red cross to we've been working closely with to improve our disaster response and recovery support since katrina and throughout the year in support as many disasters such as hurricane katrina and five hurricane isaac in louisiana and somewhat overshadowed but we had our

implemented changes by then. i want to focus on improvements are done in partnership with the interagency members at the national disaster recovery framework. the framework was developed in response to hurricane katrina the post-katrina reform act called for a national disaster recovery strategy and led the development it is a partnership of interagency partners including the red cross and the national voluntary organization action disaster. some of the key element are that it promotes partnership planning for disaster recovery and rehab and the development and establishment of an organizational structure and leadership to folks is on disaster recovery, not just yours on. one example is the federal level

we have developed the economic recovery support function led by the department of commerce and economic development administration and key partners include department of agriculture, fema is also one of the primary partners and all these agencies work together to support communities and more importantly businesses agribusiness to find the support they need to get the businesses running. some of the strategies the economic recovery support function undertakes to do economic assessment post-disaster, with the real needs are as a several disaster in the small-business disaster in the large urban disaster depending upon what kind of businesses are involved. is there a major employer in the area who is the business gets up and running quicker when they called the difference in the

world in terms of getting people to move back into the area. they also work together to make sure they're a business recovery centers sponsored by the fda that have the partners available for businesses to find resources available and sponsor roundtables in collaboration with the local chamber of commerce to make sure education counseling, technical assistance and networking for resources and support are available. after the opportunity to provide supporting information to businesses about resilience. that has never before a disaster or people as much in tune to get me to be resilient to have insurance, to have good supplied networks that are resilient. it's a good time to take advantage of that. these tables often focus on those topics as well.

i look forward to the conversation. thank you for the invitation. >> thank you goodenow and mr. russ paulson. >> thank you for inviting red cross to participate today. an executive director of community preparedness at the red cross that before this position i had the honor of leading the contribution to the recovery after hurricane katrina wilma and rita. in 26 years have seen the importance of small business disaster recovery throughout the country. our goal is to make sure people have a warm safe and dry place to go is families, something to eat in the monotype do about what is next. we did after the red river floods to reopen three shelters and served 12,000 meals and snacks in north louisiana and we keep that promise that have been about every eight minutes every day every year. we can only do this because of

the financial generosity and sometimes heroic action volunteers americorps members and employees like kay wilkins is the regional new orleans who are connected to a show is throughout louisiana. katrina came through nicely in her family for days. a young woman who never lived away from home before she came to the new orleans area to be a red cross americorps member, who after been there two weeks was sent to run the shelter on the north shore and have to deal with the needs of all sorts of people including a gentleman who didn't have his home health aide and daily living and that sort of stuff. never had any training but people step up and need to do -- do what they need to do. a young man had to figure out what to do at the shelter full

of scared people in the room started peeling back in the gym they were using. her rogue actions by ordinary people in the response they and people who will never meet again katrina was by some measures 10 times bigger than the american red cross has dealt with good research 68 million meals and snacks inclined to evacuate all 48 that it never happened before or we had to we had to vacuum the second red cross services across the country and i was possible because the volunteers and employees. we are also able to contribute several years helping people rebuild homes funding summer camps and work on their recovery and we help people access mental health service not thought about but it's more than most people are built to handle. i want to mention our program included a component that was helpful for small business. we defined like an insurance

program where people make sure they could pay the bills of independent providers and knowing they have the market to pay the bills could move back to town. recovery is such a gordian knot after a big disaster. businesses over the end to come back. residents are reluctant to come back with the businesses where they can shop in work. government can provide services and don't come back without providing services. it's a tricky proposition unless mall business first started homesteading the neighborhood and people can come back around it. katrina taught all of us in emergency management there are some disasters bigger than any of us and we have for years coordinated with folks like the sba and fema and learned we have to work with partners and people who wouldn't get involved in disasters so now we have

faith-based service organizations that haven't thought about disasters that were close late with the southern baptist convention, cat charities methodist church partnerships like the naacp and the national center for independent living and others at the local level, too many to count. they help people find shelters so they know what to do because we outnumber firefighters and rescue workers 400 to one to help people find relatives separated by disaster. now we work to get ahead of the disaster by going door-to-door neighbor to neighbor because fires killed more than anything in this country and talking about hurricane preparedness

depending where we are. we made a lot of progress and still more to go but it was quite an experience. >> thank you for the day. william shearer. >> thank you for the invitation. it's very good to be back here. we've done a variety of work looking at the disaster loan program going back to hurricane katrina and i will just date going forward and navigating those reports and testimonies into things with done and think of me to help navigate that. what i brought today i'm glad to answer any questions about our body of work but i brought

highlights pages to two testimonies and the table over there. one is the testimony in may of 2010 before the committee. it was based on a report in july of 2009 and we were asked to look at how much progress had sba made in implementing the small-business disaster risk on some own improvement act of 2008. very important piece of legislation. it was a good way to look at progress made from basically the problems incurred during katrina and rita. it was also what remained to be done. the other thing was extensive fieldwork looking at the response of the 2008 disasters which were of a smaller magnitude than katrina or sandy.

it was the midwest flood and hurricane ike in particular are we did extensive fieldwork and we could see how well they had done in the response had improved. that is one data point i want to provide to the testimony. then the other document is last month we testified before a house small business on the wrist wants to hurricane sandy it was raised on a report issued in a number of 2014. here where the obviously a much larger disaster in the response. we saw certain efficiencies in terms of timeliness and efficiencies in terms of following through with plans and

stated plans to initiate other provisions of the 2008 act and in particular three loan programs for private-sector lenders. such a close up statement and again look forward to questions as our report in 2014 had two recommendations. one was to better account for the early influx of applications due to greater use of electronic reporting, electronic applications. the other one had to do with do it documented evaluation of lender feedback. in particular the immediate disaster assistance program because of the three programs

but one that sba stated it wanted to start first as a pilot to really evaluate the come under input and move forward with a pilot. this is something that goes back a number of years. it is one that is important in terms of developing the capacity at least testing how well a program of that nature could work in a future disaster. now i say thank you for the invitation and look forward to the discussion. >> thank you for that body of work. next we'll hear from andrea deadwyler. [inaudible] >> on behalf of our inspector general to represent the dedicated men and women. as an independent office of the

sba we have relations to the program and supporting operations. the sba disaster assistance program is a high risk program and is the focus of our over after his. i believe our investigations and audit recommendations are having a positive impact on the authority of the program. the disaster program is a vital role in the aftermath by providing long-term low-interest loans to affected homeowners, businesses and nonprofit organizations to assist rebuilding damaged properties in mitigating economic effects of the disaster. following hurricane katrina issued several reports with loan disbursements, use of proceeds and eligibility. since the gulf coast hurricane sba has addressed recommendations and improve processes. most recently we perform audits and reviews including loan

processes, controls to prevent duplication of benefits with high development by grants and sba compliance with improper payments and recovery act. our 2010 audit identified issues with internal control to prevent duplication with community development grants and as a result hide and sba improved internal control possibly conducted 2015 we found sba's internal control to prevent duplication of benefits for adequately defined in working as intended. we also noted sba implemented an electronic application for hurricanes and the survivors. however the opposite disaster assistance did not anticipate the workload which resulted in a backlog of 29,001 applications. consequently the agency implemented expedited processes

for home and business loans based on credit scores and verified income. in our auto race on the expedited processes reduce home on application processing times and mitigated default risk that the expedited process did not result in any time saving. the oig and gao audits have challenges with the sba's ability to meet performance goals when it experiences high application volumes. contributing factors include the need to significantly increase staffing levels in response to a large-scale disaster as well as in addition we've noted sba reported in improper payment rate of 12% in the disaster loan program for fy 2014. >> we are going to break away from the round table briefly for the pro forma session of the u.s. senate. we will leave for a few minutes and back after the senate gavels

now. a brief session here before recessing the rest of the month. the presiding officer: the senate will come to order. the c clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington d.c., august 6 2015. to the senate, under the provisions of rule 1 paragraph 3 of the standing rules of the senate i hereby appoint the honorable david perdue, a senator from the state of georgia, to perform the duties of the chair. signed orrin g. hatch, president pro tempore. the presiding officer: under the previous order the senate stands adjourned until 2:00 p.m. on tuesday september 8 2015. pursuant to the provision of h. con. res. 72. >> the senate finishing up a pro

forma senate in the senate and house out for the rest of august. both returned tuesday september 8th at the judicial vote and every nuclear agreement. back now to the senate small business committee roundtable on disaster recovery. >> i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate the opportunity to be here to discuss sba disaster assistance program. i am the president of america s. bbc. we have 63 networks and a thousand centers nationwide. when a disaster hits, we are there. we are there because it is our neighborhood, our client our community and in every case and particularly with katrina sbdc has learned an awful lot. marion wilkerson our past state

director in louisiana did an amazing job with our committee on disaster recovery helping people share best practices and really tear down our effort to coordinate with sba and improve response. i have to say from my personal experience during katrina as head of congressional affairs at sba so i was there in the trenches with james. maybe not as deep in the trenches, but i saw what sba went through and how they have come forward and my members have seen the same change. and every disaster, people are overwhelmed and at the sbdc we pull together to share resources to bring volunteers then from

other sbdc is to set up the disaster recovery centers because when you set up a disaster recovery center, we work with sba now. the oda staff are there, but they are temporary because they've got to move place to place. they are there for about a week and we are still bare at the sbdc helping small businesses. that process has gotten so much better. our new york state director can't say enough things about the work james has done. i was just on a call for southeastern rectors. they are kind of the disaster specialists because of the way mother nature works and they truly appreciate the changes sba has implemented but also changes in your bill because we have some roadblocks to the cooperation we try to achieve.

for instance the facility of a sbdc to operate across state lines. the dancers started when the legislation was an kind of forgot about disasters. your bill just a straight and inviting us in disaster situations sentence across country to help great improvement in the way they will be able to assist small businesses. i'd like to talk really quickly because miss bennet mention something important. while we are there and helping people work through disaster loan application and a business loan application is more complicated. we help them retrieve information, but lives back together because a small businesses are the hub of the community and what we have been

focusing on more and more and we have to specialists in florida who work throughout the gulf region. they are recovery specialists are really resilient a specialist and we work so hard to make the clients across the country are prepared to recover because without that preparation, you are just many more steps behind. i will quickly sum up the last thing. we really appreciate section 102 of the bill comment the additional score and business centers and we found can stand the help of the additional funding was because even several years after we are though doing recovery work and it is vital to

last to provide the long-term assistance in the recovery situation. with that i will finish up in thank you so much. >> gray. thanks to all of you for the common. now we want to have an open conversation following up on the topics of theirs no format. please jump in when you have a relevant. my questions and concerns will naturally focus more invited the katrina experience my experience and also the small business side of things since we are on the small business committee. i guess the thought or question is mostly for sba, fema, red cross and sbdc. how is your response different for catastrophic disasters katrina and sandy versus other events. you have a different role both

come a different playbook and where roughly as the line you would distinguish between catastrophic disasters and other events? anybody want to take a stab at that? >> i can go first and i look forward to hearing what fema and the american red cross said. we are much more coordinated today than ever before. a major disaster declaration is handled by fema curb red cross is down another disaster. the red river flooding didn't quite meet the criteria so we have been on the ground. we will stay there for 60 days or two months or as long as there is a need for that perspective. we are well coordinated for the major disaster declaration or whether it is the disaster loan operations center at the sba level. coordination between agencies

pick up the lot during katrina, rita, wilma were today we have the framework in place. it may look like a bureaucracy that much more efficient process. when jerry lee and i first met we were discussing the difference between response and recovery. we figured that out. 10 years later we are a mature organization and these are the responsibilities of the response players in the roles and responsibilities of the players. we've taken it a step further were now we have prepared this operation teams where they are everybody else and we can continue as they get in and out because we provide the loans the longer-term effect from that. >> okay, fema. thank you, mr. chairman. i will live to what mr. rivera said.

i would say we don't have a different playbook for a catastrophic disaster because it is important we have the basic plans and systems and teams in place for all disasters that they practice the smaller disasters and exercises that they would do if there were a catastrophic disaster. that would do much things differently and we won't be as ready because we haven't practiced it that way. we do have regional catastrophic disaster plans for specific high-risk scenarios that we work together collaboratively with partners and specific states in urban areas so we do that. those plans are based on the systems plans we have in place for all scenarios. >> the commitment we make for

people who love a warm place to go with her family food eating someone to talk to doesn't change. we provide services we are not in regular disasters. we did case work with individual families to help bridge gaps things that programs can't cover due to statutory limitations. that one-on-one casework assistant is labor-intensive and something we would not be getting to very quickly after a catastrophic disaster. our focus has to be on the media sheltering and feeding place. we don't have a number in mind that i would say when something is 10 times bigger that counts as catastrophic.

c&a was a big disaster and if you go through disaster as catastrophic for you. regular systems for that failed disaster. >> okay, anybody else? >> i just echo what russ said so at a sbdc level come in to play the doesn't change on the localized disaster. work becomes a problem is when you get larger disasters and you need the extended resources for the extended recovery. and sbdc you can absorb it on a localized level understanding you have to do that much work but the businesses effect giving your area is a recover. when you run into some name where i think sba has 600000

applications or 400 plus is what we had in katrina this is literally working with hundreds of thousands of businesses and helping them with long-term recovery and at the same time a year or two later everybody thinks the disaster has open and it still effect in the community. is still affecting businesses. >> one of the reasons i asked the question is the gao concluded that the sba did and search operations quickly enough, didn't realize the scope quickly enough. that is part of the reason i'm asking is parametric where you get it immediately that this is another category of a surge that would not be required unless

disastrous? >> in response to the gao one of the things we did post-disaster as an after action report as far as what we've done and what worked and what didn't work in regards to how we staff to. we had 800 people and we went up about two, 300 people with the louisiana hurricane and ended up with 2500 employees. staff was an issue. it's because we didn't put them on work fast enough. i katrina we didn't have a staffing strategy. we have 6000 employees in six. post-katrina we have 30,000 reservists on call that are available. the timing of how quickly on board of the staff with the issue internally.

the difference between the application sooner versus traditional paper and take her we have addressed and provided input to the gao and change the sop and the disaster preparedness plans internally. that shouldn't be an issue if we have any act committee. we have a contract if they go beyond the employee where we have them contract and fill in gaps we have across the disaster program. >> go ahead. >> sandy was obviously the biggest disasters since katrina.

a much bigger task than 2008 disaster. james said it wasn't a matter of having a plan in place to take into account electronic applications in the speed of them coming in. that was part of the delays. where we are at now is there have been changes to what is called an sba playbook, one of three major elements of the disaster recovery plan the forecasting models. now where he seen a change to the playbook and james and i have talked about this and we need a little bit more and it might just be the steps as far as how do these different pieces fit together to make sure if

there was another major disaster of that magnitude that the process would work out differently and sba would be ready to respond. >> but they moved to a slightly different topic which was a huge frustration of mine after katrina and continues to be a general which was i saw it in so many cases federal response to debris removal it better at focus on national bigger firms and local small businesses were virtually completely left out. if they had any participation it was literally five subcontracting layers down getting pennies on the dollar. as all of you acknowledge a big

part of recovery as locals while business recovery. here is a huge opportunity to drive back through this work and i saw so many cases where the locals again either were forgotten by subcontracting layers down. had also resulted in greatly increased cost. i did a specific study comparing the mega contracts after the fact to local government that had a standby previously negotiated contracts. south louisiana is not a question of if but when with the standard on-call contracts and the price difference was

astronomical. what are you doing differently since katrina to involve far more local small business, primarily fema but many others as well. do you want to start? >> i can get back to you later with specific statistics but i can describe the approach changes we are taking to get them fast and get them faster and provide the surge would rely heavily on standby contracts and interagency agreements we call mission assignments after he disaster will we provide funding to the army corps of engineers or other agencies to provide oversight of contract work. i think what we do differently in approach is to have those that don't provide the full scope of the disaster up front.

we asked a gated into early work and transition to local business contracts as soon as possible. we can get you more details about how that works and statistics afterwards. >> okay, anybody else? >> post-katrina we understood and met interagency domestic procurement goal we met with fema and other federal agencies and said we need to focus in. the first staff as they come in but we definitely make sure there's a focus we can make the referral directly to the organization that has the mission assignments on how to get to work. that didn't exist but that is something we have developed for all disasters since then. >> let me just also make the comment to me this is a problem.

there has been a trend for federal government agencies to deal more and more with mega contracts for bundling contracts that by their sides have to go to mega entities. i think it is mostly because it's easier on the bureaucrats. if you have one contract you are dealing with versus 100 it is a lot easier within the government did. i think that is a very worrisome trend. it is completely cutting out small business. they either can't participate or if they do they are layers down in a subcontracting and getting pennies on the dollar. i think a lot of post-vassar contracts and work is a particularly worrisome example but it's a bigger trend.

i would love for you all to look at the relevant provisions regarding this in my bill. we require agencies to use local subcontractors for debris removal for demolition and provide incentives to federal agencies to work with local contract years. i would love your very specific feedback on this provision and i'm guessing most of those positions could be implemented. i would love your feedback on that. any other comments in that general area? okay -- let me ask the ig based

on your audits and investigations of sba disaster recovery programs, what are the outstanding biggest concerns you have and what areas have the disaster loan programs then vulnerable to fraud or waste or abuse and what are your top line recommendation? [inaudible] i think our investigators get referrals from many different sources and they diligently look into any allegations of fraud here they participate on task force with the big disasters and that is a multilayered question. >> so as we speak what would we

do topline recommendations in the whole category? >> well, one of the big things we talked about with regard to the gao work as well is figuring out in an emergency. they have implemented to make sure they are prepared for future disasters to receive an electronic. insanity they had just started the electronic application and they got so many more than they anticipated initially. it took a while to address the backlog. i think with the implementation of the expedited process and with the new plan to ramp up more quickly i would like to think they would be able to address those issues. we just have to wait and see. every disaster is different in

the approach is different. which is have to wait and see. >> okay. let me highlight another concern that is outside the focus about the flood insurance program but it's not direct disaster response. one big issue we have seen them focused on in the flood insurance program is participation. there has been very low participation. that obviously is a major problem and issue in terms of solvency of the program and affordability of the program. by some estimates like iran in 2006 settlement 49% of homes in a flood hazard area had flood insurance. we have half of the participation rate we should.

this is a continuing problem with talked about in committee in the banking committee with administrator fugue a but i have not seen those rates rise dramatically. i haven't seen studies that document that. ms. bennett, do you have any observations on not or maybe fema can follow up and give us a status some work in that area. >> fema has taken the concerns of the flood insurance post and he very seriously and we have established a task force that is focusing on revamping the way the program is operated and making sure this customer focused and customer friendly. we have an ombudsman function now to help people to better understand how their participation can participate in the program and make sure they

have a place to provide feedback as to specific efforts to address participation rates we will get back to you on not. >> okay. let me start wrapping up. thank you again for your participation for your ongoing work for this discussion. i want to highlight something i mentioned in my opening comments and recent legislation we have developed and worked on this committee. i just mentioned the rise after disaster act. again i would love you to continue to look at those provisions and respond and react and pro-con anything in between suggestions. it is still moving through the process and most of the national disaster relief tax act we introduced last month on a bipartisan basis.

please take a look at that as well and please offer any reaction or suggestions you might have. since obviously on going work for all of us in an ongoing discussion so i am sure we will have linear follow-up including the specific things i mentioned that i would love this follow-up for the record. with that, we will be adjourned. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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