and that plants the seed to bill clintoning the explainer in chief for bronco in the summer of 2012. >> host: what's the relationship with the vice president? >> guest: very good. another one where it's better between the two of them personally than between the staff and the vice president. there is a -- many members of the staff who view joe biden as a wonderful resource of political history of washington and that's about it. they don't sometimes see him as the person that knows how to get something done. i think there are some of the staffers who, as they've gotten older and have seen the president lose battles in washington, that approached joe biden's skills more. president obama and -- i think what is interesting now -- it could change -- but i'm trying to think in the modern era that probably carter-mondale is the only thing where you feel like there's a vice president and president that like each other all the way through. bush lost -- cheney lost bush at

some point, right around this time, probably a little more. clinton and gore had their public split. reagan and bush were never that tight. nixon never had anything with any of his vice presidents, so this is unique. it's closer, longer term, friendlier, more respectful relationship. >> host: i want to pitch forward on this particular issue because of the potential tension between the vice president and hillary rodham clinton over 2016. how has the president tried to manage that issue and that question? >> guest: well, it's interesting. he enjoys -- he wants to give advice to joe bid bide how to do this if biden wants to do it. they don't talk about it as much as they had before. there's in some ways the staff has taken advantage of what they assume is biden's at least interest level in it enough where some of the constituency groups that need the president there, they have -- the

president is done with it. biden is happy to do it. some ways they allow him to have that. i think barack obama -- this one of his negative legacies -- he is leaving the democratic party as an infrastructure-wise, in worst shape than he got there, and it's amazing when you think about the infrastructure he was able to build for himself and never able to translate it to that. i think in his -- >> host: you write he treated the democratic national committee the way some of the bane companies treated their companies,. >> guest: load it up with debt. >> host: but use the ability to borrow mo. >> guest: lite inwith dote use the money for your campaign but they never invested in the democratic national committee. they viewed themselves as so outside washington they were going to grow their own policy orient version. i to almost wanted to be their own political party. >> host: one of the cure use things about his presidency, the first democrat since roosevelt

to win a majority, both times, twice, not just once, and yet he is seen as somebody who keeps the party at arm's length, has not been a party builder, doesn't seem to care about the party. how do you -- >> guest: that is what comes across, and that's how -- you want to knee why really he has problems with congressal democrat inside that's what they see. the white house will say but we show up to events and help them raise money for their entities. but they have had different versions of what is called ofa, obama for america when inwas for the president, and then organizing for america, and then organizing for action, but they always wanted to start their own entity that they believed -- they may be right, that the obama coalition is unique to obama, but reagan tried to -- the reagan coalition was unique to reagan, but it became a part of the democratic party -- excuse me -- the republican party. he used it to build the republican party. the big criticism here is he has

never used -- it got better in '14 but a little late in the game. early on that, almost sued the dnc as a toxic place. and part of it was they were the nonestablishment figure in the primary so the automatically assumed all washington institutions were clinton institutions and, therefore are they're not going to help a clinton institution. i think that with some staffers that burned. that was burned deep in them. so, that i think was part of the motivation. we're not going to play the -- all those people that are members of the dnc, they're clintonites. they didn't want to ticket over and didn't want to take ownership of it. so i know i got off on a tangent here. goes back to '16. i do think it will be interesting with obama -- look, i think he would view the third term as total vindication and dent care if it's hillary clinton or joe biden. i think he would be working harder for joe biden.

i don't -- i think joe biden would be asking for more help. hillary clinton isn't going to ask for help. she has to walk a balancing act and doesn't -- so, he'll be as helpful to her as she wants. but i get this the sense there would be more of a personal ownership of biden as the nominee than there would be for hillary. >> host: one thing you say is one positive legacy of the president will be the way campaigns are run and won. why is that? >> guest: well, he certainly is redefined -- if you met a campaign, republican or democrat, that isn't trying to emulate some form of the obama campaign from 2008 and 2012? he has redefined the idea that, analytics are a huge part of this. you can't just rely on television advertising anymore. you have to have a wholistic view. you should make your technology be connected with everybody. don't teen your tech book separate and don't be afraid to

find people outside of the world of political consultants to find the experts. in that respect it made the entire industry rethink itself. and you saw -- i don't care itself was a republican, conservative republican running in kansas or a liberal democrat running in california in each of those cases you had them using the obama template how to run a campaign. >> host: you say the president is frustrated by efforts to pin him somewhere on the ideological spectrum. how does he see himself? >> guest: i think he believes he is a progressive but he is a practicing ma -- pragmatist. i says bill clinton and barack obama, you give them ten issues, and you tell them they'll get to the same compromise but get there differently. so, whether it's how they do

their personal politics or w where they come from on. i think what bothers him he doesn't believe he is as liberal as his opponents think he is but this goes to the fact that his negotiating style has been sort of -- again, go book to this. it's very rational on one hand. this is the minimum i'm willing to do. and he lets people know right away, and the -- washington i'ms he doesn't mean that's the minimum. that's his opening bid. and so that where is he has had some disconnect issues. >> host: you also write about a couple of different points in the book the issue of communications, and the difference between candidate obama and president obama and the power of speech, and his own frustration during his presidency at not being able to communicate more effectively. people think of him as a very effective communicator, remembering the campaign of '08

or 2012 but wares the disconnect and why was he frustrated. >> guest: he is frustrated because the campaign had a very simple premise, and it's actually worked in both the re-elect and the first one. when they ran into a problem, he gave a speech and it would fix it. and for the most part, when you were talking bat political campaign, that did work that way. the race speech. it worked that way in some ways. you look at framing the economy, the presidential speech about framing the campaign. so, campaign speeches worked for him. and it was -- would stop the bleeding on in political problem he was having. so i think he learned the wrong lesson, which is when he has run into a problem, give a speech and it just -- that hasn't worked. this is where i think i can't fully judge this. are we living in an era where no president could manage the way our new media climate goes from

crisis to crisis and forces the idea that a president has to respond to everything, whether they're missing girls in nigeria or a bombing in sydney, australia 0, are plane shot down in ukraine, let alone an oil spill in this country where a central focus, where is obama? wherees the president in and this way -- so,. >> host: your feeling -- >> guest: i want to wait until the next president to see if there's a better searity. don't know if this is a manageable media climate. i'm open to the idea -- i think they've been unique live not goodded at it. they're slow. as fast as they were to respond to things when there were crisises in the campaign, they're more methodical now as president and as head of the government. there's an arguement to be made that methodical is a good thing. you don't want to be rash. but i think that they've never

found that touch, like when to be immediately on top of something. and it's funny. watching them handle ebola. i think ebola they were very out front and tried to be as out front early on. nobody noticed when they were out front early on, and then the ebola cases and they still took on water. not a lot. the campaign year, made it worse. i think if it was a noncampaign environment for the most part, the infrastructure of washington would have said he handled ebola pretty well. >> host: your last sentence is this: the way to get something done obama was saying, was to go it alone, just as to some extent he always had. there's a certain poignancy. >> guest: i know. you think i don't consider myself an -- i'm still learning as a writer. there's a lot better writers, people who have written about obama. but that is the lesson he has taken from his presidency.

that he can't make washington work collectively. he thinks it's washington fundmental flaw. i don't think he believes there's much he could have done differently to change that. i argue differently, obviously, in a lot of this book, but look at how he is going about climbed climate change, immigration. he's going leave office with neither problem fully solved, but he wants to make progress and the acknowledge way he knows how to do it is to go it alone. >> host: chuck, congratulations. thank you for sharing. >> guest: thank you. >> booktv and primetime continues friday with books by 2016 presidential candidates. at 8:00 p.m., former arkansas governor mike mike huckabee, discusses boy god, guts, grits and gravy. " his look at american culture. at 9:00 p.m., dr. ben carson on one nation, what we can do to save america's future. at 10:00 p.m., senator marco

rubio on american dreams, restoring economic opportunity for everyone. and at 10:25, hillary clinton on her enemy -- memoir, hard choices. book biz presidential candidate on c-span. >> on the next washington journal, "new york times" healthcare correspond marge got sangercast joins us, talking about whether the expansion of health insurance actually cults healthcare costs. then sharon ebberson of cnbc on the 80th anniversary of social security and what the future holdings for the program. later a conversation on the u.s. foster care system, with the director of policy reform ands a row -- advocacy of the annie e. casey foundation. "washington gorgeous" each morning on c-span.

>> c-span is in des moines for the iowa state fair and road to the white house coverage of presidential candidates. our live coverage is on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org, as the candidates walk the fairgrounds and speak at the des moines register soap box. here's the schedule, friday morning, jeb bush jeb, starting at noon on saturday, republican rick santorum at noon, filed by democrats lincoln chef fee achieve tee, and the bernie sanders. c-span's campaign 2016. taking you on the road to the white house. >> this sunday night on q & a, institute for policy studies fellow and antiwar activist, phyllis ben net on the war on

terrorism. >> who i isis? why are that so i zoo -- so violent? i think what is more important in some ways, because it's something we can do something about, is what is u.s. policy regarding isis? why isn't it working? the welcome go war against terror jim? are we just doing the record wrong or wrong to say there choo she a war against terrorism at snail think those are the questions that in some ways are the most important and that will be the most useful. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific, on c-span2's q & a. >> next our booktv programming looking at the white house, features white house course respondent april ryan. it's about an hour.

jojo april ryan, don't think anyone, any african-american reporter, has covered the white house as long as you have, and now you have taken the clinton, bush 43 and obama years and written about them through the prism that is important to your listeners and that is the issue of race relations in the united states, and i have to ask you, when you first arrived at the white house in 1997 -- >> guest: yes. >> host: did you imagine that you ever bely to cover the first african-american president? >> guest: never, and never. just saying that i'm getting chills as you said that. in my home, we have pictures of john kennedy -- >> host: this is growing up. >> guest: yes in baltimore. pictures of john kennedy and martin luther king, and we have seen unsuccessful attempts by african-americans to become president. and i've heard from many people

right now in this town who may not want to say that they've said this but said president obama had a special kind of juice and must have because so many years we thought a white woman would get the position first before a black man, and to be able to say that i've covered the first black president is just amazing. >> host: timing is everything in life, and you actually, i think, first met him hundred he was senator. you were covering the white house? >> guest: yes. >> host: what happened. >> guest: during the bush years. there's a thing called stakeout, and we all -- all the reporters gather outside after the meetings with the president or principles and they come outside of the west wing door, the front entrance of the west wing, and they stand at a bank of microphones and at this time it happened to be the congressional black caucus that has judd obtain the newest member, senator barack obama from chicago. and everyone was looking for senator obama. and i couldn't see him.

and i was so excited about trying to get an interview with him. and at that time, it was interesting because i kept remembering, where is he? what is his name? how to say his name. at that time he was new. i think i transposed his name and he said -- well, i said, where is -- i don't even remember what i called him him said, first of all get my name right. and i was so excited to see him. he was the rock star in chief. this is not about me personally. this was about me as a report trying to get to him before anyone else, and that is the thing in this business. you want to be the first with the most, and way was so excited to get to the new rock star on the hill that i couldn't get his name right. it was a mess. >> host: he wasn't -- you write in the book he was not particularly popular within the congressional black caucus help was a senator, all the rest of them are house members. did they resent this newcomer.

>> guest: they did. he was an enigma. someone who had tried unsuccessfully for congressional seat against one of their fellow members, and they're very loyal to one another in that group, and because they are a small group on the hill and they're very loyal to one another, so that was one strike against him. the second strike was he was a senator. he was a black senator, something that rarely happens in this country. and he also was on a different schedule than the house. the senate and he house on different schedules. so when the congressional black caucus, which is mostly house members would meet, it was not on his time, so she asked to be placed in the front part of the meeting and many times they ignored him. and he was left to leave the meeting without presenting anything. and it was a lot of hard feelings there.

>> host: do you think that talking about your time covering the white house -- can you talk a little bit about how you explain in the book how you were treated as not only an african-american -- as a black reporter but a woman reporter. still not a lot of women in the press corps. let's start with those -- that first year when bill clinton's second term and you arrive at the white house to cover -- there sitting in the briefing room every single day. >> guest: it was rough because i replaced the first african-american to become the president of the white house press corps, bob ellis union, whose shoe0s hard to fill. when came to the white house, many people resented the fact it was bob there anymore. and i can understand that. he worked with so many of the

veterans there. also i think coming in and really pressing on urban and african-american issues, which clearly wasn't done that much, as much as i had. it rubbed people the wrong way. that wasn't on the agenda on a consistent basis, on a daily basis, and many people were wondering, is she militant? who is she? what is she? we haven't seen her around washington. so he is a strange kid. and i felt a little bit of that and got a lot of pushback from within, from within the press corps. people were very -- by being such a new by -- nuby, not being in washington, coming straight out of baltimore, there was a lot of pushback and people were, how did she get into this interviews with president clinton? how is she doing this and the ills not in the pool. i got a lot of pushback. >> host: what's break it down into three categories because

you right about your interactions with other reporters and your interactions with presidents, but of course, press secretaries, too. talk about a couple of those moments. start under the bush admission, tony snow was a new -- the new press secretary. what happened with the tar baby comment? >> guest: my gosh. the first day. the first dame he came into the press briefing. he was rock star the chief. so many were there there i couldn't get in any seat. typically when you're in the white house in briefing area, you're downstairs doing your work and you have your designated seat ask and you think you can wait until the last minute. that wasn't the case. to my surprise when i came upstairs, every seat was taken. it was standing room only. so i was on the right side of the briefing room against the wall. and there was a question posed to him by abc, and he was

explaining what was going on, and then he said, i'm not going to held or touch that tar baby, and i kind of shrinked because that is something -- that's something that -- >> host: that phrase. >> guest: that phrase was very sensitive. it's racially insensitive, and -- >> host: from an old br'er rabbit story. >> guest: and i actually have that book just to remember. just to remember that this is what used to be. but it should not be. and i couldn't believe it. and when you think of -- you think that, the tar that the ran pit buts together so the fox wouldn't find the rabbit. and i said, okay. so then unfortunately, there was a reporter standing in front of me who turned to me and said, shut up, you tar baby. and i couldn't believe it. after the press briefing, that

first press briefing, marched up to tony snow's office and said do you realize what you did? he apologizedded and from that moment on we struck up a really good relationship, and he really apologized for his insensitivity. he didn't realize how insensitive it was and it would spark, and at the credit of the white house correspondents association, i talked to mark smith, the president at that time, and he addressed the issue, and i got an apology. but people really don't understand -- >> host: an apology from -- >> guest: from the reporter who did that. and people really don't understand how much -- whatever happens at that podium can reverberate in the room or outside. there are so many ripple that go beyond that room, and it really affected me that day. >> host: the press briefing, you and i have covered the white house together for many years when i was with abc, and the pre briefings were offcamera until about the time you came. mike mccurrie was the

second-term clinton press secretary, which agreed to do it on camera, something i know you quote him as now regretting, and i tend to agree with mike that the press briefings are supposed to be the raw ingredients of news, not an event themselves. but you had a dustup with -- dustup is not the right word -- which struck me because i was there for it -- not just because -- not because you were an african-american reporter but maybe because you were a woman and that with with robert gibbs. >> guest: yes. i think you might be right about the woman issue, the gender, could be a little race and could be because i'm specialty media. >> host: tell us what happened -- >> guest: it comes with this. the issue is the fact i'm not part of the mainstream north part of the first and second row. i'm specialty media that focuses on urban and minority america, so how dare she.

that's the way i felt at that time. how dare she ask these questions? they were relevant questions. they were questions i was hearing from my sources inside and from outside of the white house, it was not a personality issue. it was a real issue. but inare unfortunately what the cameras saw was the last day. they didn't -- people were watching was the last day. they didn't seal the two days, the culmination of two days that crescendos into the moment. >> host: after a couple apparently crashed the first obama state dinner. and the white house social secretary, who is african-american woman from chicago, friend of theirs, was taken heat for dropping the ball on this, and you asked robert gibbs specifically about her role, but what was it he said to you? >> guest: he said something to the effect of -- i kept asking- -- was on a roll with questions, to the extent of -- calm down. i tell that to me son, and to

equate me to, grown woman to a child -- its nothing wrong with his child but to equate me to a child was disrespectful, and he was angry at the time. for people to believe there's not retaliation when you ask the white house certain questions, and it doesn't have to be this white house. it's any white house. that's retaliation. and the retaliation was seen on television. part of the retaliation was seen on television. and then afterwards, i was fuming that day. i sat in my seat and i never forget, i couldn't believe it. and at that time i was sit ago then fourth row on the end seat, and i couldn't believe what happened. i just sat there. and next thing i see the doors to the lower press office open and it was bill burton. >> host: the former -- >> guest: yes, robert gibbs' deputy press secretary. and hid said come here. i said. no he was shocked, and

unfortunately i'm kind of rebellious as you know, i said, okay, i'm coming. i couldn't believe it. i'm like, what did die wrong? in my mind. i asked legitimate questions. what happened was in my mind, and robert gibbs and i have come to a good understanding, we have a decent relationship now. but to my -- there was loyalty there. the obama administration was new and they supported one another, and the family supported -- they were very loyal to this woman, and there was other faux pas that caused a security breach at the white house. >> host: did you see robert gibbs at that point? >> guest: i did and it was a bad scene. there were other people -- it was other people in the room, and i just -- i remember gibbs telling me i owe the first lady an apology and desry an apology?

i said if i did anything to offend the first lady, apologize. people were telling me and i was receiving e-mails and text messages in the leadup to this, why does robert gibbs disrespect you. said why do you disrespect me and he said, you tell me to e-mail them. i'll talk to them. and i i'm saying to myself, what did die too deserve this crazy necessary? and sometimes it's rough and tumble there, and when you are someone that hey perceive by yourself -- because i don't have the backing of the larger networks. i don't have the backing of having other people being part -- i don't have a lot of specialty media that are there to focus on the same issue to have my back to follow up on questions. so i felt like i was alone, but i wasn't alone so to my surprise, many of my correspondents -- fellow correspondents, including yourself, were really supportive of me for the fact of saying that should not have happened that way. it was a serious line of questions, and the sources that

told me stood by it, and because of that there was change at the white house. they went back to the old procedure of how to allow people to come to admit people into the white house for events, but you have to remember this was about the security of the historic presidency, and the history president. he had so many death threats. and it was any president. >> host: talk about the specialty media and i think a lot of americans may not understand but of there's there are the networks and wire services get the front row seats. major newspapers have seats but you really do cover the white house and write about it in this book from a very particular vantage point, which crucially important to those who listen to you. >> guest: specialty media is media that is not necessarily -- we don't nosily focus in on the

traditional. we are the group that we don't sit in the front row. specialty media could be tv, radio, newspapers. but we are not the abc, the cbs, the cnn. we are the american urban radio network. we are the b b.e.t., we are those type. we are also lgbt newspapers, christian broadcast -- all sorts of different things but not necessarily part of the husband ill lose tree to us front two ryes. >> but you have a seat. >> guest: smack dab in the middle. i used to be on the sixth row when i first started and we moved up. we moved up to the third row, and i could have a seat, and i think that is because i'm there every day and i ask questions of the principals, and i ask pertinent questions and we have an audience they want to get a

message to. >> host: does sometimes a president or white house, the communications operations, take advantage of your specialty media by saying, we want to get this race story out there, this urban story out there, and they seek you it? >> guest: oh, yes. >> host: how does that work. >> just recently, president obama did a race interview with b.e.t. it reverberated more with b.e.t. than it would with a cnn or abc. so, when they want to put out information, they'll sometimes go -- we're the go-to person. they used to call me a foil. i'm not a foil but i'll let them you me and i'll use them at the same time. so the washington bureau chief said sometime you have to use what you have to your advantage and that was to my advantage. the fact i'm work fargo mine -- working for a minority company that focuses on urban and african-american issues, but i also question on other issues as

well. mainstream issue. >> host: how did you deal with the second group? we talked about press secretary. your white house press colleagues that i for years sat right down the row from you at abc, and you write about asking a question, your first presidential news conference, and you said that after you asked that question, you were treated like media slime. what happened? >> guest: this is a rough and tumble business, and we are happy for one another but it's like, why not me? why not me? why didn't i get the question? and that is what -- >> host: they're asking why they didn't get -- >> yes. i've heard recently. the last couple of time is have got an president from the -- question the president, and the last one in the summertime about africa. people are were like, how did she get senate i'm like, why not? you get questions all the time and i seldom get to ask question

monday the press conferences as much as others. but we are a group that, we're a hyper sensitive group and we all want to have that moment where we get the question. we want that question. but when others say, how did she get it? so i think some of that was some of the problem, and also i was new. brand spanking new. and i worked hard. >> host: how did you get a question being brand new. >> guest: well, at the time, at the time, when i first came to the white house it was more open than it is now, and you were there when it was much more open than now. >> host: open in what sense. >> guest: we could walk around mow. i was literally coming in from outside and i had my coat on and i went to lower press. i walked in and then there was -- at that time i think would as a door -- afternoon the staff area. >> guest: yes. i don't think there was a door at the time that you could see people walking back and forth.

i happened to be standing there and asked if could i go to upper press. they said, of course. >> host: the press secretary's office, just outside the oval office. >> guest: so i was headed to upper press to see the press secretary, who happened to be at the time mike mccrary, and the secret service agent said go back. i said they just told me to come they sid you got to go back. i said they just told me to come up. not understanding what was going on. first encounter with the secret service. and so all of a sudden walking down the hall with a pretzel was president bill clinton, and so he didn't know who i was at the time. i guess he thought i was a staffer or something. he was talking to stop in the hallway, and i i'm looking at million at the bottom of the -- him at the bottom of the staff and i'm, you're talking to the staff and i introduced myself. and i said, please call on me, sir, and so.

>> host: cal call on you. >> guest: at a press conference he said, okay. and the press conference he didn't but the next one he did, and i really -- i said, maybed it did work just saying hello, and i told mike mccurry to send to the president to say, thank you, and the president wrote me back. he wrote a note back on white house letterhead, and that's all she wrote. >> host: that's a good one. you writing a the note to the president for getting a question then getting a letter back. >> guest: common humanity. >> host: how -- in the news conferences you talk about that first question when you were considered -- you called yourself -- considered yourself media slime. was it the content of your question and were reporters hostile to you? >> guest: i don't think it's the content of the question. i just think media slime --

there's a for examplelies a very sayreal relationship in that in so, i -- when we get classified, negatives, they say we're media slime. but it might have been for others they didn't like the question. they may not have. but that was not for them to say because once again, special media, we're focus on one thing and you may focusing on another and that's the greatness of having a group of people in the >> host: dedayly briefings. >> guest: and the press conference because they're more going on than just one thing. >> host: let me ask you about a bush 43, george w. bush news conference, when had a foreign visitor and you were not seed evidence with the press corps. >> guest: i was no. >> host: where? sunny was seated with the africa yandle gages and i found that

very -- the african delegation. a faux pas on the part of the white house. i was told after the fact i should heave been grateful. yeah. because i was in a seat to possibly be called on. and i really don't think that -- >> host: but you were sitting with other black reporter snooze black reports. i have no problem with that but i'm a white house correspondent, american journalist. and even -- it was so odd. these are my colleagues on the other side of the room. what's going on? i was placed here. and even the president, president bush even noticed. during the news conference he says, why are you sitting over there? are you trying to get a question? and i said, i was placed here. and he kept -- he at least acknowledged at least three times during the press conference, and he even trade to put me out so that the president -- the president --

african president would call on me and he did. so it was faux pas, and even andy card, the chief of staff at the time after that, said it was bad. itself was a bad move. >> host: do you think presidents regarded you differently than other reporters because you war black, because you represented a specific specialty media, because you were a woman? did it some way work to your advantage? no i believe, yes,ed did work to my advantage and tools my disadvantage because -- also to my disadvantage because president clinton even told me, i get him in trouble because they didn't know what to expect from me. other people -- they didn't know what to expect from me. and they sometimes didn't have an answer for me. so, many time is wouldn't be called on. president clinton told me that. so i figured if president clinton told me that, that's kind of a thought going down the line. so, this was told to me during his time in office.

so, it worked to my advantage when they wanted to talk to the community to the black community, urban community. it worked to my disadvantage because they didn't call on me so much because they didn't know what was coming. so it's an interesting doc, double edged sword. >> host: in your book you've write extensively to put today's presidents in an historical perspective of where race relations have come in the united states. and you make clear that there's still a ways to go. selma, 1964, before you were covering the white house. the civil rights act has become law, and now the focus is the voting rights act, and martin luther king, jr. is in the white house, urging president lyndon johnson, to move on it. now, the film "selma" has been criticized by some for putting

lyndon johnson in a very bad light. you write about your conversation with the other person who was in the room that moment. tell us about that. >> guest: in the book, presidency in black and white, my upclose view of three presidents and race in america, i have an exclusive interview on the record with ambassador andy young, who was in the room with dr. king, talking to lbj. >> host: andrew young was not only a prominent figure civil rights community but a former congressman from georgia, former u.n. ambassador and someone who worked for -- at that point was a relatively low level white house staffer. >> guest: a very credible person. more than credible. he was in the room. and this is what i don't understand with this -- all the -- there's a piece i don't understand below out this back and forthabout lbj and selma. andy young says in this book

that lbj did say that he didn't have the power to push it forward, we're talking about voting rights. after they successfully got the self rights act. so, -- reverend jesse jackson said -- this is interesting -- he said, people like dr. king as martyr but not a mantra, so strategically, these civil rights leaders lad to figure out how to give him the power. so, they were -- they had to work strategically to work together toe get the power for the president. what was that? to go down to alabama and andy young talked about, in the book, specifically for the book, the presidency in block and white, how at the time in alabama, three people, three african-americans could not be on the street together. it was against the laws there. for three people to be in the

street together in alabama. >> host: because that could be considered leading to a protest or demonstration? >> guest: yes. they had to find a way to have a meeting to begin the process for the marchs and that was -- they had to strategically figure out how to present the situation so that lbj could have the power to push through the voting rights act. so this is someone who was in the room with dr. martin luther king, also reverend jesse jackson, in the book, on the record, talking about this. >> host: there are audio recordings. >> guest: yes. >> host: of that former secretary joseph califano wrote about the using the transcripts of recordings held at the miller center for the study of to presidency. so this choo be a pretty well documented fact. are you surprised at the kind of reaction that the movie has brought?

is it progress to finally have a movie that has turned out to be a commercial success about the life of dr. martin luther king? >> guest: i think the movie is magnificent, and when i say magnificent, mean it brought me to tears. i felted like i was in a black clutch. i knew when i saw the four little girls i enough what what is going to happen. brought tears to my eyes and talking about it brings tears to my eye. very graphic to see them go back and forth on the bridge to understand i'm an african-american, if they had not done this, you and i wouldn't be able to talk today. i wouldn't be able to question three american presidents. this book would not be here. so that movie -- i don't believe it showed everything that could have been shown baas it was very graphic but much more brutal than what we saw. but the movie touched me.

i think i commend oprah, and brad pitt, all of them. i it was a wonderful movie. you have to remember people who want to plea -- preserve history, people died. this was not an easy struggle. people believe -- they won't to believe itself is so sanitize. people died. they knew people were going to get hurt and died. black and white people died for the right for black people to vote, and. >> condoleezza rice was a friend of one of the girls. >> guest: yes. >> host: and she worked within the bush administration -- obviously she was national security adviser and secretary of state. did she also feel she had a race portfolio? >> guest: secretary rice is in this book on the record -- and i thanked her for her truth -- she

said that she was there and she brought to the table what needed to be brought to the table on race. >> host: what what did she tell them? >> guest: when it was time have anniversary events, no, we must have this anniversary event. itself if were not for that's haven't i would not have been able to sit at a restaurant. she says that in this book. >> host: her father couldn't vote until 1952. >> guest: something like that. >> host: she said she couldn't go to a restaurant with her family until 1964. >> guest: right. so, she said, if it were not for this act, have to stop and celebrate it. and she also -- there was another controversial piece. at the very beginning of the bush years, bill was -- president bush decided to write an amicus brief, a friend of the court -- wanted to do a friend of the court brief, and said -- it was about the university of

michigan, and d. >> in>> host: affirmative actio. >> guest: did not want there to be reverend shall treatment in the admission process, and condoleezza rice, national security adviser, said, there needs to be targets of opportunities. >> host: giving black candidates for admission that extra measure of -- >> guest: yes. the problem was that someone said they wanted to make sure that condoleezza rice's story was told properly, so i heard all the hoopla about the news and i lad to go to a doctor's appointment and i got a call, from the white house press secretary, and he said, i said, sure...

>> it is just the anniversaries and this is a very common, a common item and a perpetually free-flowing conversation and we had a beautiful time. and it was part of what happened with the producers at the time. and not only that, he is not having that with any what any of us and that is not fair. and so we thought it would never happen. and especially with everything

that was hanging overhead. >> president clinton by this time had been impeached. >> yes. >> this is 1999, the summer of 1999 and we were surprised that we got a call, it's going to happen. and so at the time i was one of the main people from the associated press we're trying to make this happen. and they said that there is no way that we can get into the house in baltimore with taxpayer money. so once again they would have to open up this beautiful house and we were very thankful for that because we had the best time. president clinton had talked so much and he enjoyed it so much that we had to pull him out of the house at 11:30 p.m. so if you are around president clinton, you will talk sometimes in monologue. and you are just engrossed and

you just listen. so to have him sitting there with you. >> as a reporter coming you better understand him. this is not a store you do the next day. >> this is off the record. and you always want to get in their head and find out what they are thinking and why. and you just talk about a hodgepodge of issues. and you have to find out who he was, what he was again, why this happened, why this wasn't going to happen. it's a very interesting time. we got it off the record. >> the moment in the obama

administration that you get to towards the end of the book, they are the ones that i think many americans are acutely aware of. the trayvon martin individual could look like president obama's son if he had one. so what do you make of the handling of these rather explosive moments under his watch? >> you know, the americans were looking at him as sort of a meter. they wanted to believe that change is going to happen. that was his motto at the time for the first time. he could never reach that level of expectation that he set for himself. and so people were looking for a savior and they were looking at african americans were hurting

as the recession started. but understanding that as a black man it is different for him. and the first time, all of it. >> and that includes all votes. and so the second time we have now seen an african-american president who happens to be african-american. the first time that the president happens to be african-american. and the reason why say that is because he is open and how he regards racial issues. and as president you are president over all-america.

and all-america has to understand where you come from on certain issues, and personally i am thankful to hear that because he has a lot of issues that a lot of people were sweeping under the rug for many decades. and the issue of a police involved shooting and right now you have to provide support for law enforcement and trying to read that. >> has support for ferguson, missouri? >> it is such a hot bed. and what would've been accomplished if he did. sumac president don't usually go somewhere sensitive unless there is something that they can bring away from it. >> he said sent the attorney general dharna calm down for a

while. but it is a small piece of a bigger issue. people were tired. ferguson was a town that was upside down. it has been inverted. you have white rule in black majority. and so there is an inversion of the power structure. >> the police were largely white, the community was overwhelmingly african-american. >> yes. and the poverty structure is different as well. it is majority white and mostly black. so i think that eric lerner, this issue is real. and it's not obama, who? but everything comes to a president and this is the thing that bothers me. we forget so easi