[inaudible conversations] >> you're watching booktv, television for serious readers. you can watch any program you see here online at booktv.org. >> this is booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. here's our prime time lineup. next, robert due beck reports on the controversy surrounding the building of the vietnam veterans' memorial. then at eight, walter williams talks about his book, american contempt for liberty. at 9 p.m. on "after words," missouri senator claire mccaskill discusses her life and political career, followed at 10 p.m. eastern with a history of the americans with disabilities act. and at 11, the story of a british consul turned spy in

charleston, south carolina, in the lead-up to the civil war. that all happens starting next on c-span2's booktv. >> when i think civil disobedience, i expect most americans think you think about the civil rights movement. civil disobedience against what i'm sure we both agree was an absolutely pernicious episode in the american landscape. not to say it's resolved, because clearly racial robs persist -- problems persist in a big way, particularly vis-a-vis african-americans and the police. but that strikes me as a very clear example of not only legitimate, but essential civil disobedience. in your case, you're talking about some pretty refined things. i mean, here is a workplace safety standard that you think is a bad idea and a waste of time. i could easily find someone on

the other side of that argument, i'm sure you'd agree. that doesn't pull at the heart strings or even the mind strings the way, say, racial discrimination does. >> not your heart strings, maybe. >> so say more about it. >> no. to he -- well, let's talk about vocational issues. there are others, but let's talk about vocational issues. to me, one of the deep sources of satisfaction this life is practicing a vocation that you love and love to do well and take pride in, okay? that's a big deal. >> yeah. >> and to the extent that you have lots of people in some vocations, including physicians and small business people of all kinds where they say i can't do what i want to do in the terms of providing a good or a service, it's getting in the way, it's impeding freedom in a really important way. >> so let me jump in here. i mean, presumably, they can't do what they want to do not because of some arbitrary, be it

a regulator, but because somebody along the way thought what you want to do is going to hurt somebody else. so, again, you're kind of a bit of a judge and jury here, it seems to me. >> well, no, i have a very different view of what the government's role is. so for me, the meaning of the american experiment was a presumption of e freedom. so if -- [laughter] if you are practicing your craft, the presumption is you do that the very best you can. if you make a mistake that hurts somebody, you are vulnerable through the tort or system. >> that goes back to the founder -- >> yeah, you are vulnerable if you are negligent or screw up. okay. but otherwise you have a presumption of freedom. i don't want to characterize your opinion. i would say that the progressive movement, i'm defining that in its early 20th century terms with its germanic origins and -- woodrow wilson's

progressivism -- was one of the first times that it was assumed that the state knows better and that experts can say, no, actually you should not live under a presumption of freedom, we will decide what's okay and what's not. we will decide this is not safe, we will decide that this is not ethical, we will decide this is not fair, and we will promulgate these rules, and we now live under a presumption of restraint. so when you say, well, somebody awe long the line said this was going to cause a safety problem, yeah, somebody did, but the principles -- okay, here's what we really get on the ideological. if i'm minding my own business and have not hurt anybody, for someone to use power of the state to say, well, you haven't hurt anybody, you haven't done anything wrong, but i'm going to lay all these constraints on you because you might, that's wrong. >> you can watch this and other rams online at booktv.org. >> here's a look at the books

president obama is reading this summer. the list includes three nonfiction titles, "between the world and me," which looks at race in america. elizabeth kolbert's pulitzer prize winning report on the relationship between humans and the precipitous loss of species in "the sixth extinction." and ron chernow's biography of george washington which won the pulitzer prize in 2011. president obama's also reading three novels this summer, "the lowland, ""all that is by james salter, and this year's pulitzer prize winner for fiction, "all the light we cannot see" by anthony dorr, which looks at the lives of multiple carriers in nazi-occupied france. and that's a look at what's on president obama's reading list this summer. >> jonathan kozol remembers the

life of his father harry who self-diagnosed his own alzheimer's disease next on booktv. >> tonight i'm delighted to introduce jonathan kozol, acclaimed writer and tireless advocate for poor children, educational we educational equiy and integrated public education. for 50 years he's worked among the nation's most vulnerable children. his books, as you well know, include "the shame of a nation," "amazing grace," "savage inequalities." he received the national book award for "death at an early age" which chronicled his first year teaching in the boston public schools. he's received the robert f. kennedy book aware, two guggenheim fellowships and two rockefeller fellowships. the book about which he'll be talking