with his dad announced for governor there were two people on stage. his wife and a mitt. he was most enthusiastic to be their their of their kids though. >> he had a relationship with the media purdy - - premier of the end of life and he had his first gaf. >> get was at that announcement shortly after word he says at any event it is fun to be here in the united states is on the fourth of july for the first time. the eyebrow raising comment was true they had a vacation home in canada were there

with celebrate the most american of holidays each year years later he with a laugh about it. he was one dash she said it was the great line. but back then mitt romney appeared on the news on his own. as he was getting used to the spotlight and then he had his appendix out. reporters once wrote he made $2,000 would actually she pointed firefighters in the direction of the fire. >> he just wanted to be a

part of it. >> he said he idolized his father did he follow in the ideological footsteps as well politically? >> yes. this is michigan and you have to learn how to ingratiate yourself. at the time as a politician of race relations and then to go to harvard than like massachusetts and if you're going to be a centrist republican to be successful you better figure out how to play nice.

with the abortion i want try to repeal any thing and i won't take any action on cave marriage that'd since the direction of the liberal end of the scale. >> what about huntsman? >> there is of great picture of teesixteen but i got from the family he is ted years old at the white house. has the staff secretary to the president at this time they controlled any piece of paper to read in and out of

the office he controlled who got to have a car or limousine it was the powerful position did also meant he got to know-- off because the president hit a day off. so i and though we can he would take his sons to get the runaround the white house. they would run through a the west wing they could run into the president to enjoy the company if you talk to them now you don't know who these people are they just have high positions because they worked all the time but his dad starts up the huntsman container corporation the uses styrofoam to make paper and after word he moves back to

california to make them deliver that aides to bush restorers to make contacts so he saw all of that. the family was doing okay. no where near the wealth that they had today in the formative years i think he was 50 when he coordinated ted deal with the big mac clamshell that made them $8 million at the time so he is a high school when his father starts to make money and he was in his mid-20s with his father becomes a billionaire. one way to get under his skin is to say he was a rich kid. china what it is like to be

a normal person to hang out and when they came from california the two things that were difficult for him is there were always active mormons but to be surrounded by all mormons was unsettling. he was used to more diversity and also to be known to have everyone in high school say that is the huntsman kid with a big house on the mountain was disconcerting. he tried to run for student body president but he didn't with. -- she didn't win. so he went to the keyboards he joined a band and dropped out of a high-school. you can imagine that drive his father and that's but

jon huntsman, sr. did not have a falling out he bought him a the bay and year and came to his shows even though he hated the music. [laughter] and he would bide his time fully expecting then he could help his son and he did. the band broke up they love the ada to be uniform place then he got the initial call to taiwan and he was terrified he was hoping to go back to germany and he gets to taiwan's. it was the complete awakening. . .e dispute.

so they both love their father said there their best rand. >> host: but yet ruth of philanthropic efforts of john huntsman has been there running the cancer foundation with the cancer institute a salt lake city is now one of the premier cancer institutions to set on the board and has been very active in those charities. they are very proud with a philanthropic endeavors. when his dad's company went public they said that's it. every time i own i will give away by the time i pass away.

>> host: but john huntsman sr. when he made himself he turned his sights to politics. and in 1988 he decided you would run for governor and was challenged by democrat wilson and the polls showed him as a huge lead. and and then surprised everybody. and what happened as an investigative report he saw the news that huntsman sr. said to with that? how can he run for governor of i don't know who he is? but at the same time they get an anonymous letter and

accusing him so he starts investigating so huntsman senior brother who gave them his start in business and that was from a carton's so what senior editor of doing then created a competitor to his uncle company that upset the uncle said they did not like each other. then they come back to sit down with huntsman senior it is contentious from the start we have detailed in the book and the last thing that people see is what we have queued up for you.

>>. >> during our interview questions about the past business dealings and service records. >> i have been in the white house 70 years all of a sudden he shows up a star is to ask me questions about places said never heard of before. anatomy him if it is comical that you can go back to do your thing. >>. >> so i'm pretty strong body language. >> think you're in his face wasn't exactly the type of p.r. you want when running for office. shortly after jon huntsman, sr. decided he would not run and backs out.

said to have just as much influence as governor. to have this kind of attention to play a part to have a huge prominent figure to give if money to do a charity so he is is campaign manager. and also we haven't done aired campaign ad that we found interesting. >>. >> i am jon huntsman, sr. is starting off with nothing billion corporation into an international business of headquarters in salt lake city preferred running for governor because i know how

important it is to provide our children the very best education possible to build a stronger economy and lower taxes is. i am running for governor because i can lead you talk to the future that it deserves. >> host: if he was there why in the world did he choose to get politically involved? >> it took 16 years to get over. he worked in the administration of the time period and often asked to run for congress to have a political interest and every time right before he would say no. in 2004 living in washington d.c. so as to leave

washington and run for office. and he was aware but jon huntsman, sr., if you think of what it takes to create a business empire to be passionate but his son is a very smart man who doesn't have that quick temper. he is a diplomat, an ambassador. so that is the kerry and huntsman influence to make him more capable for politics. >> we have mitt romney and jon huntsman, sr. to have a commitment to public

servants when dash service. what is the story? so the first break between the of huntsman and romney's they helped out in 1994. not to a rift at all and then with the bribery scandal and they need the white knight to fix this. they reach out to mitt romney and say we have this guy who can fix this then they realize they cannot pick him but they need a process where a person to head to the olympics. en running ben madison

square garden but this really ticked off the huntsman family that they were held out but i think think, jr. found out he was not getting a job through a fax machine. >> although he still donates $1 million to the paris olympics -- paralytics to make sure they are successful even after romney becomes governor of massachusetts but but then they are fine for a little while this is 2006 romney comes to job kerry never presidential run the with people across the country he sits down with jon huntsman, jr. year in salt lake and says i really want your

support and, jr. says yes the not officially because there was not an official campaign like writing a paper on asian relations of some form but then jon huntsman, jr. feels no one is paying attention to him from the romney campaign not reaching out or returning phone calls he is not feeling used. so mitt romney goes to root tennessee and he writes a note that we have the screen. >> will done in of this. you make is all very proud just a hint of what is to come. respectfully, ed jon.

>> for months before the relationship completely obliterated. there on the same page. this was the first top of the election and mitt romney came second in a southern state where they're not expected to do very well. it was an accomplishment. but what happened he wants to be a player in the campaign. . .

where he's says her grandfather would be ashamed of you. we have to understand his grandfather is. it's the late apostle of the lds church. his grandfather died a couple of years before that so if you can think of the ansell doesn't sound so mean but when you were talking about someone saying they grandfather who just died would be ashamed of you heard junior and the divide is split into the 2012 race. >> i'm not sure which side is

next. we had a photo just a moment ago there it is. the two gentlemen together. you consider this photo for the book cover. why did you decide against it? >> they look like such buddies. what i like about the photo to be honest tommy did not is that i couldn't come up with a photo where two people look looked like they had bigger smile than this one. [laughter] this photo was taken in the grand america hotel here in salt lake city right after that meeting, that first meeting, private meeting between the two were john huntsman indicated he was going to support mitt romney's campaign for president so this is right after that key moment. the reason we did is we didn't think this but the tone of what we were writing. what we are writing is an interesting story but it's not snarky and this photo i think

have the wrong tone. at the end we were a little bit, we went with some classy mugshots but i still like this photo. this is politician to me in ways that most don't. >> let's move on to the next presidential cycle end of course huntsman ends up as ambassador of china and then he starts to have presidential ambitions of his own. he returns from china to run for the gop nomination and his campaign is off to a rocky start >> we have to note to he's thinking wow i really miss american i want to come back. he did it but he came back because he did not think that mitt romney was the right guy to take the republican party to the white house of john huntsman junior stepped in. i remember this day very clearly. we were in liberty state park in new york and it was a great day

for the john huntsman campaign. it was the day before k campaign. you get there and they have press passes for the reporters that have job misspelled on the press passes right before he goes on stage the generator dies in the microphone instead, the music is gone. none of the reporters have power and they pick all the reporters up and they taken to the airport and they take them on a bus that has arabic writing on it. it was actually going to saudi arabia so they had to back off and go to the plane. later that night the press go -- prescott pulled over. it was a really bad start for the huntsman campaign that never got better. everyone else seemed to have 2012, michelle bachmann got a month herman cain got a month. john huntsman never got a month. it never really picked up for

him. he had huge money problems. they had to switch to a three state strategy to just focusing on new hampshire. john huntsman moved into the garden and lived there with his family. he did think at the end there was a surge coming his way. the huntsman's were very excited about it. they have this packed victory party but at the end they came in heard and although huntsman stood on stage that night and said this is a ticket to ride and we are going to south carolina, he knew was over. he knew was over that night. he did want to say that to the people who are excited in the room who had worked so hard for him but he knew his six-month campaign had come to a screeching hault. >> at that point of course has had much more presidential campaigning experience and you write in the book that the top romney aide called huntsman a knapp, an annoyance. >> the romney people knew that

huntsman had no chance. he just worked for barack obama and he's going to run against barack obama. he worked for the administration want to have his own administration that was against it. romney said john huntsman doesn't know what he's doing and in some respects they were right very john huntsman's campaign failed. the one poor thing to point out if you look at the crowded bill of 2012 they'll kind of have their own lanes or rick santorum social conservative newt gingrich is newt gingrich. and then you had met ronnie who is his own man. john huntsman was the direct competitor and he took shots at mitt romney constantly. you add that severity past history past history and for mitt romney and his family the huntsman's were a significant irritant far more than their polling presence ever came to be. because it was more personal.

for mitt romney to dispatch michele bachmann, so what? but to take out john huntsman after john huntsman had back stab him in the last election. >> in the end of course and spend he sees the writing on the wall and endorses romney, kind of. we do have a clip that we can discuss but this is john huntsman withdrawing from the presidential campaign. >> today i am suspending my campaign for the presidency. i believe it is now time for our party to unite around the candidate best equipped to defeat barack obama. despite our differences and the space between us on some of the issues, i believe that candidate

is governor mitt romney. >> matt what do you see in this? >> my favorite part of that is to see how his face shuts down when he gets to governor mitt romney. he didn't want to endorse him. >> it's the only time he mentions mitt romney's name. leading up to that statement he was going off about how horrible the race wasn't how horrible the candidates are for slinging mud the entire time. in fact i can read a little bit from the book perhaps from a chapter called tepid endorsement appropriately titled raid a reporter lobbed a question referencing days before huntsman had detached from the real-world. do you think you complete out of touch the reporter shouted from the back? they weren't happy with huntsman's comments. if you look at the endorsement of like he was on lemons said the romney confidant. i saw the clip later is kind of

like a backhanded endorsement. >> at that time that romney flies to new york to accept donald trump's endorsement in person. after this you never see john huntsman about the campaign again. >> john huntsman was uninvited to a lot of republican events. soon after he starts talking about a third-party candidate and an independent candidate and in the end romney wins the republican nomination i have this big party in tampa florida and john huntsman is the were to be found. >> they parted ways. how is the relationship today? >> there is no relationship. they might say publicly that they are fine and they still admire each other but there is no relationship between the two. just last week met ronnie had several presidential candidates policy wonks for the e2 summit. john hudson was not there.

jon huntsman was not invited to that was his state as well but that's not something that romney would accept an invitation to pay its. >> the governor picked him that romney to leave the olympics and becomes a confidant got a major award and that romney was the presenter and every prominent group. if you look at utah's list of who's who the only family that was on that list was romney. they didn't show up and aided by table are supported at all. if you are in certain parts of national politics you know you have to pick one team or the other acre she cannot straddle both. >> well, when they were campaigning very high-profile lots of attention on their mormon faith and in the book you describe them as different kinds of mormons. tommy, explained. >> let's start in 2008 mitt

romney's first run at the white house critically look at the label as is everyone is running as romney is the only one who was labeled with his religion. former pennsylvania senator rick santorum or former arkansas governor mike huckabee and massachusetts governor mitt romney is a mormon. it was always that kind of thing some that romney had to take this on his own in 2008 and gave the big mormon speech where he said i will not take direction from the lds church ended dog him throughout the campaign. obviously during the nomination but 2012 comes back again. this time around it's a shared word. the approach though was very different between how romney of perched his faith and how jon huntsman approached his faith. that romney wears his mormon faith on his sleeve. he is a very devout orthodox mormon. he is not someone who is going to drink a beer or glass -- grab a glass of wine.

he will defend his faith very much so. jon huntsman returns to china on one of his first trips in one of the first thing he does is not good of the mormon church. he goes to a large evangelical church of 20,000 people in the room and has raised his daughter with a -- faith that when he was specifically asked do you consider yourself mormon he said i consider myself a cultural mormon. so what this really did was for americans in some ways show that not all mormons are white shirt tie a nametag riding writing a biochemistry that there are different kinds of mormons like catholics. they are catholics who will pick and choose what they like about faith but there are mormons like that too who may have a couple of beers during the week and go to church on sunday still believe in the gospel but maybe will let that other part slide in some ways.

in some ways that helps the church into the more mainstream that people can come its not just those weird mormons. i didn't know he was mormon come he doesn't seem like he other mormons in some ways you can see there are different kinds of people. >> it also was a cupid that broadly in the state of utah which is dominated by mormons. tutors are the people in the state are mormons and up cultural mormon in the state you know what that means come he didn't go to church and you are not as active as the other guy. there were a lot of people in the republican party in particular which is some ominous with the mormon church in that state who were upset about that who felt that he had deceived as governor words is sitting state governor john weiler who called him a charlatan. you saw in the election in 2012 there's a poll of the state of

utah and you have to think jon huntsman junior won two terms as governor by massive margins and in this poll he was 50 percentage points lower than that romney, 50. i think that had a lot to do with the religious part. >> so if mitt romney took the hit in 2008 shared burden in 2012 what about now? what does this mean for politicians to come because of the mormon question? >> merrit romilly briefly thought about a third run this january and part of that sought the launch of the third run with him signaling i'm going to talk a lot about my religion. if you ask the family what happened here, the first races they didn't want to be just a mormon candidate even though that's the way it worked out and they didn't want to be looked at as weird for eating mormon.

they didn't want that to be something that hung over his head to what they realized if you shut off that part of your life you are not relatable. he's a very rich man who has been on corporate boardrooms for most of his life. it's hard for the majority of americans understand the situation but if you can talk about what it's like to be a mormon bishop in how you help your neighbors it makes you helmet -- human and they shut that down for some reason. >> in fact they feel the same dinner publica national convention. romney is about to be crowned as the gop nominee in romney's people bring forward the abramsky's, the people who served with mitt romney in the belmont lord when romney was state president in their talking about the sarp raking stories that make romney seem so human. it doesn't matter what faith you are part of fact that he would

sit down and write a will for this dying boy and give a eulogy or take 30 hours a week to make sure is helping out his fellow man in the neighborhood a really made that robot image that everyone had of romney go away. unfortunately that did not air on prime-time. but aired on prime-time was clint eastwood in the empty chair. >> and that's what people remember. let's fast-forward to today. there's a very crowded gop field we have got jeb push marco rubio donald trump. they are all lining up and yet we don't see either or jon huntsman junior. why is this story relevant today >> as tommy alluded to earlier just last week had five presidential candidates in the state of utah meeting with his donor base which is a very active well-funded donor base. and if you are going to run in

the presidential party today you need serious cash. that makes him have the ability in some ways to play kingmaker role. wherever he tracks people that person is going to have a pretty good advantage so he is relevant in that way. i think you see and some of you might have seen the documentary on netflix that humanized him but also why put that on after presidential race? you don't do that much you want to be relevant. you don't do that if you want to fade away in history. i don't think we have seen the last of and i don't know what role that will be. for his father george romney after he ran for president and lost he had a national campaign to boost volunteers. he went all over the country and did that. what did we are not sure but what he did recently was have a boxing match with evander holyfield to raise $1 million, a charity that helps people with vision problems which is a nice

effort and probably a fun night. i will tell you i'm sure the still photos are more impressive than the actual video. >> i also wonder if mitt romney is thinking of matt and i corrected. >> jon huntsman junior is a very moderate republican. in this environment he knows he is not well positioned to run for president at this time. that does not mean he is done. jon huntsman junior said he might run for senate in the state of utah when senator warren hatch is expected to retire. he has actively talked about secretary of state for either party. he was the ambassador to china for barack obama so you never know and his dad said watch 2020 because you never know he might run for president in the next go-round. a lot of people in the republican party these days,

their gambit is the pendulum is going to swing back their way. what makes the more centrist issues like marriage and climate change. on taxes they are straightforward republicans so this is the time to tell whether he gets back and do that it politics or not. >> huntsmen seems to be developing an image of a policy wonk. he is on "cnn" and he has then the label party doing this radio show on sirius. mitt romney seems to be loosing up a little bit with a boxing match. >> you can see the mite he on the ballot later on. we are probably not going to see mitt romney's name on the ballot again. you might see jon huntsman junior's name again. he's going to help somebody else succeed where is jon huntsman junior may still be running for something as we go forward to jon huntsman junior is the chairman council which is kind

of like a waiting spot for cabinet secretary to be in either party situation. he is still active on a lot of policy staff. he wants to be taken as the intellectual candidate going forward. >> let's talk about the next generation because the romney's and the huntsman's, there are more of them. they also have been drilled into their mind a sense of public service, a duty so what does the next generation look like? >> i will start with the romney's. just like mitt romney wanted to do everything his dad did his son tag want to do everything that his dad met did. all five of his boys went to byu because he and his mom went to byu. tag lived in the same apartment that they stated when they were at byu. he got the same degrees.

he works in the same business as venture capitalist. he wants to follow him into politics. the hard part is that running as a romney massachusetts is a rough go right now. his dad won the governorship but wasn't popular at the end. the presidential race didn't help that in that state so tagg doesn't really have a great place to run yet. in utah there is josh romney one of his other sons who wants to be involved in politics and right now josh romney runs his own real estate company buddies getting involved in issues like the homeless shelter in salt lake city. he backed the congressional candidates who won the state. he's often talked about as a candidate. the problem is the romney family as an ethos that you have to be successful in business. you have to let your kids grow up and then you can run for office.

josh still has kids in diapers so he could run but the question is when. >> on the huntsman side his kids are a lot younger but it's also very much like the romney stu and the fact that you come from a kind of a privileged family you are expected to give back in some form. jon huntsman, his oldest daughter maryanne is a concert pianist who plays at carnegie hall and wants to play in symphonies around the world, the second oldest daughter and add the huntsman you have probably seen her on "msnbc." she is probably the most likely to jump into politics. she has openly said should be interested in running for office and where she would run for office is in her home which is utah. she is not yet 30 years old. she is going to maybe burnish her credentials in the media and get more well-known maybe nationally and jon huntsman has two sons who are in the navy. one will be flying jet plane

soon so this is another generation that we could see very much so stepping into the public limelight. >> before we get to our audience questions i just wanted to see if there was a favorite in that you discovered, something from the research that grabbed you and you can't stop thinking about it. >> for me how the huntsman's became prominent i just assumed it was his dad's business and him giving big money away. jon huntsman junior, his younger brother james was taken from his home when he was a teenager and it was a very obviously scary episode. the fbi got involved in the process and fbi man was stabbed in the chest. this was dramatic news and he credits that episode with his family becoming well-known in the state more than anything else which i didn't know about.

>> i covered the 2012 race and spent time in new hampshire with jon huntsman's campaign and we all knew things were going badly but talking to people afterwards and talking to jon huntsman junior about how bad it wasn't how there was little communication and he could even get a strategist on the phone sometimes, it amazes you when you realize they were able to do third place in new hampshire with that kind of the structure on the campaign. >> well audience it's your turn. if you have a question raise your hand and we have got a runner who is going to bring the microphone to you. >> literally running. [laughter]

>> here, take mine. >> i have heard a lot of theories about why jon huntsman junior is the cochair of the mic lee campaign. what is your theory? >> the senator from utah worked for jon huntsman junior as his general counsel but they are politically far different. mike lee is as far right as senator s. -- and jon huntsman junior's moderate. they are friends. i think the reality might be more to jon huntsman junior wants to keep his political options open and it doesn't hurt to back a winner. right now even though mike lee

is a very broad figure in the state and national politics there are zero people running against him in either party, zero. i have looked really hard. no one at this point is chart running against him. josh romney considered and he was one of many people including jon huntsman junior who is asked to run against mike lee who declined to at that point you have a prominent banker and jonathan junior to announcing -- announced. >> the short answer is if you can't beat them, join them. >> i would like you to talk a little bit about the seniors and juniors relationship as lukewarm at best on the huntsman side of course. the last time i actually saw them together was during a dedication of a wing of the

cancers to toot just a few months ago when john junior was on the stand at the time and that was one of the last times i have seen him with his father. do you know what the relationship is? >> sure an impact if you look at jonathan junior and senior are very close and they still talk every day. what's complicated for them during the 2012 campaign because while they wanted to talk to each other every day and they did for the most part they had to be careful not to talk about the campaign and campaign finance laws because father was running this multi-million dollar super pac. but they talk every day. senior is very proud of his son, very supportive of his son. this is a question he didn't really ask but i'm going to answer it anyway which is the idea of how the senior reacts to the idea of some of his kids or

grandkids may be taking a different tact when it comes to the mormon religion and senior is very proud of his kids and talks about it doesn't matter necessarily what church they go to, that anyone would be proud to sit with jon huntsman junior and he said person. >> we talked to jon huntsman senior per couple of hours and he was a huge cheerleader of the sun. he wrote his own biographer he and he made an applaud for his son being president some day. he is holding out hope and they are very close. >> i don't have a question. i just have a comment. first up i loved your book, congratulations. it's a great book from beginning to end that i was a little disappointed about two things that are not here about romney and huntsman but someone need to talk about is here the olympian jimmy shea and his father was also an olympian. he talked about him in the book

and he deserves it. >> now that the lights are up i can see. thank you very much for being here serve. i recall seeing both of you on the campaign trail in 2012 with mitt romney so thank you for being here. >> he ran for senate and it didn't work out. i think for people in the city of utah we knew who he was. i think it's hard to realize how popular that made him. here's an example. he was in people's sexiest man alive issue. that is not a joke. and if you ever want to make them embarrassed you can point that out to him. i think what happened is we have olympians who helped him on all of his campaigns after that because it showed a level of hatred to some and a way to -- he led a massive organization.

>> i was in college in massachusetts when mitt romney ran against ted kennedy and of course he seemed to be running a times to the left of ted kennedy. obviously of course this is the same guy who for the 2012 election made the speech about how he was a severely conservative governor. in terms, it's interesting you are talking about how he wants to be his father and he wants to follow in his father's footsteps into politics. in your estimation is that the ambition that's driving him much more than the ideology is and he is willing to kind of move around the ideology in order to achieve the personal goal? >> with some quotes in the book from some campaign aides who set for him is a pragmatic guide. he's a business guy and a lot of times when he ran for politics he said what i have to do to succeed? let's go. authenticity is a huge part of

this so we talked about his run in massachusetts, you have to respond to a massachusetts audience and that's going to be more moderate. the interesting part of 2012 is you say he was a conservative but go back and watch that first day with barack obama for he trounces barack obama. he doesn't seem that conservative there. that's the more moderate middle of the road from me that he probably wanted to be but when you're in a primary you have to do what it takes to win. we talked with jon huntsman junior and that part frustrated him traded you are pulled in so many different directions in the national primary. can you imagine you were going to run for two years in your party's nomination and every single group is going to try to pull you to there is? you are trying to get every single delegate. that's before you broadly talk to the nation? that's tough.

>> this is off topic at the democratic national committee bank donald trump are entering the race because the race needed its scariest candidate. they question our here. >> i'm a fan of jon huntsman junior and i thought it did a good job as governor but he kind of has a history of being a quitter. he quit high school. he quit the governorship before his term was over and he quit ambassadorship. he doesn't seem to be able to catch fire in the race. i think he is very well spoken and very intelligent but what is his fatal flaw in what is the problem? >> he would probably say quittor is the wrong word. he looked for the opportunities that would come toward him but he has set himself talking about being an intellectual person he is a policy wonk at heart.

he is not a campaigner. he is not someone who likes to go out and say what people want to hear and in fact it's in the book jon huntsman's favorite part of running for president was the debate he did with newt gingrich which you then even his daughters were falling asleep in. >> i would also say part of the difference between what jon huntsman junior's career was as a summer might mitt romney, jon huntsman junior balance between government business and working in his fathers business and government service in the assured by the fact that the president is going there for four years. we see this often in politics. a cabinet members not going to be there long or ambassador is not going to be there long periods, and washington d.c. someone there for two years and leave. the amount of time you spend in china when he was working for barack obama was longer than the ambassador before and after him

and so it's not like he was in a hugely unusual step of the criticism you brought up actually hurt him when they were considering someone to run the olympics. successfully ran a business and jonathan junior who has bounced around. that worked against him. i think politically it's a little different though. >> will take a couple more questions. >> in 2016 there are 15, 20, 25 republican candidates seeking the candidacy may be 30 with donald trump in the lead. in the july 2016 republican convention we see a deadlocked convention. can you see a scenario where a romney movement emerges because here's an individual who's been bringing together candidates who just yesterday said the number one mistake in my campaign in

2012 is not reaching out to minorities. someone has got the money, organization name recognition a head of the party can you see a scenario. >> as a reporter i would love to see a deadlocked. >> we actually have that in the book. when he looked earlier for this year he said i bet i could win the nomination but i'm don't know if i'm best suited to challenge someone like hillary and 10. when he talked to people and his supporters and said he wasn't going to run when asked this question is there any way that he could never see it and he said not at this time or something to that effect. he loved that little room and politicians do that all the time. we have heard that if it's a

scenario where the establishment republicans are doing well and it looks like someone like senator ted cruz from texas is the front-runner then met romney would consider it. i think that's interesting to think, that it's hard for politicians to get it completely out of their blood no matter what they have been through so there is a chance. i don't think it's a good chance >> i've heard senator bennett say if ted cruz gets the nomination the republican party may win a few counties in mississippi they will be disaster for a party like it was in 64. >> senator bennett and are very close. >> one last question and then we will get to the book signing. >> anyone else? >> you went to the mall. right here, right in front. >> jon huntsman senior has been suggested as a potential buyer of the newspaper that he works

for. i'm wondering what it was like writing a book about a person who may soon be her boss? >> sure. thank you very much. we started this project in november 2013 which was well before jon huntsman senior mike end up being her boss someday and there was this moment where it obviously became more of a chance and we talked about it and we said we are journalists, we are going to let the journalism we have where we go here. starting to compromise our reporting because someone may or may not be art loss is the wrong move. we don't do that with anyone else. i also would like to take this moment to credit our bosses for not putting pressure on us to change anything. this is the book we wanted to write and we rode it and that's a lot of credit to them because i'm sure they are going to get more pressure than we are going to get. i hope they are going to get more pressure than we are going to get.

[laughter] >> mats sub four and tom barr, the book is "morman rivals." thank you for being here tonight. [applause] >> thank you.

[applause] >> thank you. it's always a pleasure to visit the nixon library and birthplace and a privilege to be invited to speak even in some cases when chris only gives me 15 minutes notice. [laughter] i enjoy the audience thoughtful engaging and respectful. it is a distinct honor to be able to introduce longtime friend and contributed to the nixon library, hugh hewitt. my wife and i have been friends of the library for a while. i came of age during the nixon years and have vivid memories of the 1968 republican national

convention, watched on the black-and-white tv late into the night hoping for his nomination. we have come to learn more about richard nixon and the indelible mark he left on our country and the world. as i look at the state of our nation and the world today and i reach into the archives of the 72 campaign nixon now more than ever. we have had the opportunity to meet wonderful people through the library. hugh and betsy hewitt among them. hugh is a figure at library and foundation programs interviewing authors facilitating panel discussions participating in debates and as we saw today conducting his national syndicated radio show. he served in the nixon administration's speechwriter and he was critical in the construction of this facility and for that but debt of gratitude aisle who have been

benefiting from it. hugh hails from ohio claiming to be some form of buckeye. [laughter] he did however choose to purchase his law degree from the hated university admission -- michigan, something i do not understand. he is a practicing attorney, professor of law at chapman university and a remarkable influence on the republican party at all levels across the country. he is a frequent guest on nationally prominent television shows, networks that would not otherwise have my patronage except for sporting events. most prominent i believe is being the host of the best talk show in america. he has the most impressive array of guests, senior elected and appointed government officials, authors, opinion writers and national influencers. he hosts an educational series with the president of hillsdale

college and is a graduate level intellectual experience. his style is insightful and engaging. he is respectful, never talking over his guests and i was allowing them to have their say. he provides a platform for those with whom he disagrees as well as those with whom he had raised, drying out from them challenging questions and engaging in an intellectual exchange. it is smart radio and his audience are better informed people. "the queen" is his recent release. i think we will find beyond the astute analysis of the former secretary of state is a bit of it porch and tell her. rolling the dice on such a long shot that he might consider a second run for the white house. hugh the gamble has paid off. i have not yet read "the queen"

holding out for a free copy. [laughter] so it is with great anticipation i welcome to the podium hugh hewitt. [applause] >> thank you very much. i have been introduced a lot of times. i am very highly honored that he introduced me and philomena and he would make a special trip to the library. they are dear friends at etsy and me. we first met at the nixon library at an event where former secretary of defense rumsfeld was the guest of honor and i was interviewing him. i was downstairs and you have to remember i married the daughter of a marine corps colonel. my brother-in-law's were retired

marine corps colonel said he would think i would have figured out i was talking to a marine for 20 minutes downstairs with philomena. he was active duty at the time and since retired and i didn't because i was a little dense and then i finally said so wait a minute are you a marine because they have been laying on the ocean side comments in the penalty and comments. i figure you a marine and he said yeah. i said are you active duty as if he was given his age that meant there were going to be a couple of stars on his shoulder and he said yeah. i said are you a general? he said i am very self-effacing as great military leaders are and i said gosh general i've been rambling on and talking to the commander of the brigade and inking to myself my father-in-law were he alive with be so deeply ashamed of me. i have grown to know and love him and respect his